Acra Out As GM

[MontanaFella]

Writing on the Wall?!

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071129/SPORTS/711290321/1006/SPORTS&GID=qar6xCjyP++0hATRBGuALQU9MQh1ovm8Di2EWx9jG9k%3D http://http://www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071129/SPORTS/711290321/1006/SPORTS&GID=qar6xCjyP++0hATRBGuALQU9MQh1ovm8Di2EWx9jG9k%3D

I know that Acra worked his ass off for Joe and for Tickman, its sad to see him go.

[FrozenUpHere]

"I love the job, but I never knew whether a paycheck was coming."

This statement seems a little unsettling to me. Anyone in GF’s hearing about ppl in their organization not getting paid or is Acra stirring the pot in the wake of his release?

[MontanaFella]

No payroll was paid last friday to players, coaches, or staff. I am not in Great Falls but by the sounds of things, between Apex and Tuckman no employee has been paid for nearly two months.

Acra did tell a friend that Tickman payed him a nominal amount when he came in, but there has been no payroll.

[Crystal Ball]

All I know is at this level if the players donot get their funds they would'nt show up for work.....:mrgreen:

Add to the fact that they have been on the road for the first two weeks,I am sure that they were not spending out of their own pocket for per diem...

[Tyler1420]

If there are specific questions that you would like answered, then please post them, okay? I'll do my best to answer.

All I know is that on 26 October, as I was out of town soliciting sponsorship dollars for the team, I was unable to access my email account. I was fired later that day. I received a txt msg from Mr. Acra a week later saying that my firing was a financial issue--had nothing to do with the $100K in sponsorships I had already raised for the team.

Mr. Tuckman and I spoke when he took over the team. I was expecting to hear back from Mr. Tuckman, but it seems as if he's changed his mind about calling me back.

Office chit-chat, that phone conversation and stories that were on Channel 5 and in the GF Tribunecovering the change of ownership were wildly conflicting, but, it seems the truth won out.

It's amazing, in my mind, the tone of the closing comments from MontanaFella.

[psbf]

but I would think the fact that you raised 100k, in sponsorship, would make you a valuable member of that team.

[Tyler1420]

That would be conventional thinking, wouldn't you agree?

However, Acra gave me every indication that GF Explorers' money wasn't handled locally; we were paid either by check from Apex (when we were paid) or by Wells Fargo transfer.

The team itself didn't seem to be benefitting from my sales efforts.

BTW, only 60K was cash, the rest was in trade.

[psbf]

Yes and thanks, Tyler.

[jbirdmontana]

You did a great job maybe if they kept you around they would actually have money. I hope tuckman is a better gm and brings in a better team no one wants to watch guess play as hard as they can just to keep up with the other team

[jbirdmontana]

Montana fella where u from, ryan did an okay job last year of running a team that kermit young and others set up. But this year there is no one on the team that the coach didnt bring with him from his tryout in oklahoma, except for Stand and Salsheider (returners from last years team). The money issue cost the explorers keeping Jamar Howard (a CBA all star last year) and he chose to go play in germany.

[MontanaFella]

I am from Helena and am a big Explorer fan, a big Ryan Acra fan, and a big Jamar Howard fan. You need to get your facts straight because if you did you would find that Jamar is in Germany making good money and the reason he didn't stick around was because he wasn't all that comfortable with the new coach. The tryout was in Kansas City which is in Missouri and not Oklahoma and most players from last year are on teams throughout the world that are better opportunities for them.

I too hope that Tuckman does a good job because our area needs a good pro team, I don't trust Joe Clark and I think that if Tuckman can follow up and run just one team, he could be very successful. Ryan was a good GM and I wish he and Tuckman could have worked things out, at this level a GM does far more than build a team, he needs to keep attendance up like the momentum was going last year. From the sounds of things it looks like Acra was a bit sensitive to a new owner and jumped the gun in his resignation, but I think he did a heck of a job.

[jbirdmontana]

I admit to not knowing all the facts of where Wedman's tryout was at. But I am a good friend of Jamar Howard's, having brought him up to Great Falls from Bozeman for the start of Explorers training camp. He left obvioulsy to make more money then he would in Great Falls, plus his paycheck in Germany would be guaranteed. The Explorers are a joke this year, their guards are a joke i.e. William Maupins, and can anyone on that team that is not 6 10 dunk. I was a big fan last year and became friends with most of last years team, but the Explorers have now lost me as a fan. If you are a big explorers fan you would be outraged by the releasing of Marlyn Bryant who is one of the most exciting players in minor league basketball.

[jbirdmontana]

I almost forgot, that if you think Acra was such a good GM was is this years team so poor.. It is the team that he assembled in the off season as the Explorers GM.

[jbirdmontana]

Yes i know Malik Moore is playing for Paderborn in Germany.
Travis Garrison is in South Korea playing for over 25,000 a month.
I am not so sure where Javon Harris ended up, i didnt get his number last year.
Jamar Howard is in the second highest league in Germany.
Marlyn Bryant is maybe gonna sign with Rio Grande Valley Silverados, I will let yall know that either tonight or tomorrow.
So montana fella, dont say i dont always know what i am talkin about.

[Pounder]

I've been waiting here for a reconciliation, or explanation of difference of opinion, for the difference between comments made above about available funds and...

http://www.oursportscentral.com/boards/showthread.php?t=9191

[Minor Leaguer]

jbirdmontana- Don't blame Acra for the job he did. He did an outstanding job considering the circumstances. I would love to see you continue to work at a job when you haven't been paid for 2 months. The bottom line is Joe Clark should have manned up and paid Acra instead of thinking he would just continue to skip paying him until he was able to sell the Explorers to another owner.

[jbirdmontana]

I am by no means hating on Ryan Acra he was great for hanging around after not being paid, but last year he became the gm after the team was in place, and this years team has none of the supposed re-signings from last year that ryan had announced. Most likely this is because Coach Wedman came in and did what he wanted with the team, i thought the GM brought in the players and the coach coached them, but that is not the case here. Ryan needed to stand up to him, in my opinion.

[Minor Leaguer]

You must not know CBA basketball very well. In every franchise, the coaches are the ones that bring the players in and decide which players to bring in. It's not like the NBA where you have the GM's making moves with little or no discussion with the head coach.

[jbirdmontana]

If that is how it really works in the CBA then Scott Wedman does not know talent, i think he is just being arrogant. Everyone in here please let me know if you have been to an explorers game this year, after having attended one last year. This years team looks like a joke when they come onto the floor, they dont even have team warm ups to wear, it looks like a city league team coming out to play. I am very bitter about Bryant being released without even getting a chance.

[Minor Leaguer]

I can guarantee you that is how it works in the CBA. The problem is that a bunch of these teams are trying to give former NBA players jobs as head coaches. Newsflash: Has anybody looked at the standings lately? Oh yeah, that is right, the top two teams in the CBA are Yakama and Minot. Let's see, have either Paul Woolpert, who is an unbelievable coach, or Chris Daleo played in the NBA? Nope, imagine that! It seems as though it is time for me that CBA teams quit trying to lure in former NBA players as head coaches and bring in the best available candidate.

[jbirdmontana]

Well then some of these coaches dont know talent, and all these coaches that have good talent assembled it is true that they arent former NBA players, but in Yakama it doesnt hurt Woolpert that former NBA vet Moochie Norris is on the team, he is like a coach on the floor. What needs to happen is the CBA needs to hire General Managers that do put the team together and then the coach only coach. Last years CBA had less teams, and i dont know if any of last years coaches had NBA experience, but it also seemed like the players were better, Yakama is still amazing, and even they look to have a little less talent. Here in Great Falls the team is worse at every position as far as i can tell.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Well then some of these coaches dont know talent, and all these coaches that have good talent assembled it is true that they arent former NBA players, but in Yakama it doesnt hurt Woolpert that former NBA vet Moochie Norris is on the team, he is like a coach on the floor. What needs to happen is the CBA needs to hire General Managers that do put the team together and then the coach only coach. Last years CBA had less teams, and i dont know if any of last years coaches had NBA experience, but it also seemed like the players were better, Yakama is still amazing, and even they look to have a little less talent. Here in Great Falls the team is worse at every position as far as i can tell.

Paul Woolpert is a former NBA player, Michael Richardson and Jaren Jackson were also former NBA players. Just ask ol' Ken when you need THOSE type of answers. 8)

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

I've been waiting here for a reconciliation, or explanation of difference of opinion, for the difference between comments made above about available funds and...

http://www.oursportscentral.com/boards/showthread.php?t=9191

Duhhh! I dunno. I'm waiting for an answer too. ;)

[Chuck the Writer]

Paul Woolpert is a former NBA player, Michael Richardson and Jaren Jackson were also former NBA players. Just ask ol' Ken when you need THOSE type of answers. 8)

Paul Woolpert never played in the NBA.

Right now the CBA has five coaches with NBA playing experience - Vincent Askew, Micheal Ray Richardson, Scott Wedman, Kenny Anderson and Derrick Rowland.

[Pounder]

Well then some of these coaches dont know talent, and all these coaches that have good talent assembled it is true that they arent former NBA players, but in Yakama it doesnt hurt Woolpert that former NBA vet Moochie Norris is on the team, he is like a coach on the floor. What needs to happen is the CBA needs to hire General Managers that do put the team together and then the coach only coach. Last years CBA had less teams, and i dont know if any of last years coaches had NBA experience, but it also seemed like the players were better, Yakama is still amazing, and even they look to have a little less talent. Here in Great Falls the team is worse at every position as far as i can tell.

I believe even the D-League doesn't spend like that. I know the minor pro norm in basketball and hockey is the coach/player guru model, not so much because it works, but because it's cost-effective. The OTHER guiding principle on this... crowds are not as dependent on game quality as you think they are. In other words, I don't think you'll get a noticeable increase in fans just because you have a player personnel director.

[jbirdmontana]

I will keep that in mind, but all of those coaches coach with a fire and a passion for the game. Wedman basically just sits there like he is still an assistant. I think that Derrick Rowland has that fire that will make him a great coach.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Paul Woolpert never played in the NBA.

Right now the CBA has five coaches with NBA playing experience - Vincent Askew, Micheal Ray Richardson, Scott Wedman, Kenny Anderson and Derrick Rowland.

Hmmmmm. My Know-it-all meter seems to be WAY out of sync. I've seen Paul play somewhere...guess it wasn't the NBA. I must quiet my mind now to bring balance back to the universe. :shock:

[jbirdmontana]

He played for the Celtics in the 80's and holds an NBA finals record by shooting 11 for 11.

[bull1104]

jbird~What's your deal with Wedman? :confused: And you seem to be referring to who Paul is when you answer with facts about Coach Wedman. You must not know anything about him, regardless. Arrogant is the last word that would be used to describe him, and he doesn't just "sit there" like an assistant! Wedman has been working with real talent for years--what his team is doing now is not indicative of his basketball knowledge or coaching abilities. To assume it is is rather myopic of you.

[jbirdmontana]

What u talking about? You been to an Explorers game this year, it is almost painful to watch. I read some where that Wedman had been out of coaching for like 5 seasons. And if you will reread what I said in my last post I didnt say that he hadnt worked with real talent I am saying that the explorers are the team he put together, so he must not have an eye for real talent. He is only arrogant in my mind because he never gave Marlyn Bryant a chance to make his team thats all.

[bull1104]

I have been to an Explorers game this year. I stand by my observations.

Wedman has not coached pro-basketball in maybe 5 years, but has coached consistently for many, many years. He has also worked with many pro-basketball players one-on-one in clinics and such...including one Luke Walton. "Worked with" and "has an eye for" talent are somewhat the same in my mind--if he weren't a skilled coach, he wouldn't have had the opportunity to "work with" such great talent. And these talented players have an eye for a good coach and mentor.

I don't know anything about this deal with Marlyn Bryant???

[jbirdmontana]

Man you must just be a Wedman fan, any one that had been to games last year and then this year can see that there is much less talent this year. You wouldnt know any inside information on the Marlyn Bryant releasing, I only know because he is a good friend of mine. Wedman is great at coaching players that play the same style as he used to, I guess he was a great outside shooter, especially for someone his size. Which is how Luke Walton plays, from the outside, but the whole team cannot be made up of players that only shoot, someone has to keep the D honest. I have alot of inside information about the Explorers so just ask if you wanna know....

[MontanaFella]

some of your inside player information.

I am an Explorer fan and I do miss Jamar and Marlyn. I think Eric was a little out of sorts this year and Keith is having concussion issues again.

Tell me what you know about the other guys.

[bull1104]

So what is the deal with Marlyn? He tried out and Wedman didn't put him on the team?

[jbirdmontana]

Marlyn hurt his shoulder in training camp on the second day of camp and was out for like 3 weeks, so they sent him home and Wedman just told him that he didnt get to look at him. I just heard that Strand said if they were gonna release anyone to let him be the first to go, and he got here when he was out of basketball shape. I have also heard that Keith is shopping around to see if he can get a deal anywhere else, so that he can get out of Great Falls. That is really all that I know, but Wedman doesnt seem to care about any of the players that he didn't bring here. But that isnt really insider information.

[Tyler1420]

What clarification was needed for my previous post?

Under the Acra regime, I was responsible for $63K in cash sponsorships and $37K in trade sponsorships. I have the list of sponsors, since I was the director of sales for the team.

None of the cash was available to Tuckman when he assumed ownership. He is busting his balls reconnecting with a sponsorship base that clearly has a reason to be, well, disgruntled.

It's impressive, in my mind, that despite being dealt a bad hand, Tuckman, Wedman and the Explorers are making a great effort to bring great sports entertainment to Great Falls.

I'm sure you can figure out a way to email me off-forums, and I can corroborate any additional information you need, okay?

Thanks again.

[MontanaFella]

What clarification was needed for my previous post?

Under the Acra regime, I was responsible for $63K in cash sponsorships and $37K in trade sponsorships. I have the list of sponsors, since I was the director of sales for the team.

None of the cash was available to Tuckman when he assumed ownership. He is busting his balls reconnecting with a sponsorship base that clearly has a reason to be, well, disgruntled.

It's impressive, in my mind, that despite being dealt a bad hand, Tuckman, Wedman and the Explorers are making a great effort to bring great sports entertainment to Great Falls.

I'm sure you can figure out a way to email me off-forums, and I can corroborate any additional information you need, okay?

Thanks again.


I am a friend of Ryan Acra, not a close friend but I think he is a good guy who did his best for his team and his city. I talked to him a few days after he left the team and it was devistating for him, he loved his job and wanted to be successful at it.

Under the Acra regime...there were hundreds more fans for every game then there are this year.

Under the Acra regime...sponsors got what they paid for even if he paid for programs, banners, and roster pages with his own money.

Under the Acra regime...employees and players were paid first before himself and sometimes by himself.

Under the Acra regime...when ownership or staff made mistakes, he took responsibility and made the issues team issues and worket them out.

Under the Acra regime...even after sales people were told they could not enter the establishments of local potential sponsors i.e. Papa John's Pizza, he reassured the staff and pushed forward.

Under the Acra regime...camp started and a team was formed with literally no money and no official owner.

"The Acra regime" was not perfect, nor was it really a regime since he had Joe Clark and then for a short time Micheal Tuckman to deal with, but it certainly wasn't this bad.

[Tyler1420]

Ahh, now I know who this is.

I'm going to let you continue to pursue your personal agenda, MontanaFella, okay?

Thanks again.

[MontanaFella]

Tyler - You have met me...but you have no idea who this is. I have no personal agenda and I have no problem with what you think is good detective work. Good luck to you.

[ryanacra]

I just got a call about this forum, quite a showing. I appreciate the support and understand the critism for sure. I hope that Explorers fans will continue to support the team.

Just to try and clear thing up...I was just a guy trying to do a job. There was no regime and I like to think I did the best I could. Not all of my decisions were right or even good, but they were all made in earnest. I worked hard for Joe even though financially things weren't always perfect. When the team was sold to Mike Tuckman, I was just kind of tired of the uncertainty and didn't agree with some of Tuckman's decisions. The weren't necessarily wrong decisions they were just different than what I believed in and what I was doing before his arrival.

Regardless of all that, the team has been playing and, from the sounds of things, getting paid. I hope the fans come out and watch them and find new favorite players on this year's team of guys that are working hard every day to get better and win games.

Our entire staff from players, to dancers, to sales people, to coaches, and more all worked hard and did some great things. We found ourselves in a tough position this fall and Mike Tuckman came in to basically save the team. I hope he can make it work and I have offered my services on a consulting basis to him and the coaching staff. They seem to have things moving in the right direction and I wish them well.

In the meantime, I have moved on, I hope that the fans can as well. Negativity will not help the team grow and prosper, fans need to bring friends and family to the games and show the level of entertainment they can expect in our small town.

[jbirdmontana]

Ryan you did a good job in Great Falls and I truely apprechiate you in being part of bringing pro basketball to Great Falls. Good luck in whatever you are going to do next. And of the critisism on here, we are fans, that is what we do is critize, it is nothing personal. If you are a fan now, let me know what you would do different right now with the team, the attendence is absolutely terrible this season.

[sj2u]

I am in Great Falls and have some direct knowledge of the status of the team.

First, let me say that it's a real shame Ryan is no longer with the Explorers as GM - he did a phenomenal job in a really, really tough situation (from day one, not just after the change in ownership).

He stuck it out, even when, with the previous ownership in place, he had to max out his personal credit cards to cover expenses.

The Cavalry is not the only CBA team not acting in a fiscally responsible manner. The CBA head office needs to do an audit of each of its teams' finances, because the owners in this league are shady, shady, shady!!!

[psbf]

there are some who may agree with you, sj2u. I'm curious, though, what you mean by 'shady' and do you know this for a fact or just an opinion? If fact, what proof?

[MontanaFella]

I own a home in Great Falls and use a property management company to rent it out and collect the payments.

This same company is the one that the team used to find its housing for players, the leases were signed by Ryan Acra as directed by the new owner Michael Tuckman, as of today, no rent has been paid, the only money paid was by Ryan himself for the deposits which I am guessing he has not seen. The people who own the rentals are angry and the Explorers have been told they will be removed from the homes by the sherrif's department.

Also, I would for the state of Montana. As of now, Mr. Tuckman has yelled at, belittled, and cussed at the woman at the workers' compensation desk. The Explorers, from my knowledge, are playing with no workers' comp insurance.

I am sure there is a ton more out there as I am just a fan who lives in Helena and travels to Great Falls regularly for work.

Sounds shady to me.

[psbf]

From what I've heard about Tuckman, I'm not surprised.

[sj2u]

there are some who may agree with you, sj2u. I'm curious, though, what you mean by 'shady' and do you know this for a fact or just an opinion? If fact, what proof?

Hi PSBF... I had business dealings with Joe Clark last year (and have two friends who coach two separate CBA teams). I know that it was close to impossible to get paid in the business deal I was involved with - the only way to finally get the funds was to deal with Kazumi Clark's brother (who's also involved in Apex).

Additionally, because of my friends who coach, I have learned that Joe is not the only owner who operates in the red and doesn't honor his commitments. From personal experience, this league seems to be in real trouble and the only way I could see for the owners and teams to get past it would be to have some heat and light shed on their business dealings and also on how they treat their players and coaches. :(

[psbf]

your thoughts and experiences, sj2u. Maybe there is something going on with the league(I'm not prepared to go one way or the other on that thought). What I do know is that my team is doing better this season, which I want to enjoy. I know that attendence is down for many teams, including mine(Xplosion). The way I see it, though, we are much better off here(CBA) than in the ABA(where we began). I'm glad that I have a team to show my support for.

[heavesrock]

You know psbf, it's not really necessary to make 5-10 posts per day either saying the same thing or nothing at all.

[psbf]

I didn't know you spent the day counting, rock.

[jjbballfan]

I think that it is clear that there are pretty big problems in the CBA....

OK Calvary--- Questions to say the least, rumors of players not getting paid players quiting because there coach was fired because supposedly people weren't paid.

Great Falls--- Tuckman is a shady guy but he is a in a tuff situation there... Apex who I thought had a right idea to get multiple teams and sell them off as there value raises didn't work well... They have 1 team left and started with who knows how many.... I think like said previously its hard to buy a team when he bought it basically alienating the sponsors and other people in the community. Also his shady past probably didn't help matters

Atlanta--- Who knows rumors were they weren't being paid then there were rumors that the pay was coming then there was no rumors.....

Yakama--- Who is by far the best team on the court and actually has a fan base is owned by a tribe that who kicked out the members who approved the buying of the team and who has made bad business deals in other areas... If Yakama is sold it would be tough for an owner to pass up the Dleague for a league like the CBA who has notable problems

Pittsburgh-- Nobody shows up they play in 2 seperate arenas (both are 2 big for a CBA team) but are barely noticeable in the community....



The CBA has never been great with stability from year to year but have had little cases of players not being paid or teams rumored to be in trouble like they have had last year and this year. I am beginning to wonder if the league is in real trouble... They use to be able to compete pretty even with the Dleague but now they don't have players called up and don't have fans showing up....

[psbf]

If you're going to do observations, you may as well do the whole league. You only covered 5 of the ten teams.
And like I said earlier, at least the league is playing. I fail to see why posters keep bringing up 'the problems'. Do you WANT this league to fail??

[MathProf64]

No, we do not want this league to fail. That's why we want to talk about these problems. We are concerned that if these problems aren't solved, then there won't be a league to play in.

Granted, most of us don't have any pull in the league, but the more information that is out there, the more likely someone who can do something might.

Ignoring these problems and pretending they don't exist will not make them go away.

[jbirdmontana]

I would like to know when people say that they have friends that are coach's and say things like the sheriff's department is gonna kick the Explorer's players out. So why won't any of yall say any names of the people that you are getting your information from. If you said who or where you got your information from maybe people would believe you and then others won't have to argue with you. Nobody knows if the stuff that you are posting is fact or just your opinion, or just flat out fiction.

I for sure don't want the league to fail, all that I want is for Great Falls to put a better team out there on the court. Good news from players like Nate Johnson that the players are getting paid and even the dance team is being paid. I have an idea that would help if they can't pay for a place for the players to live, they could find host families for the players. I realize that the guys are professional athletes, but there are people like me that have an extra room. My and my wife were a host family for a Great Falls White Sock, and the organization makes the players pay like 150 bucks a month or more if chipping in for groceries, plus you get 2 season passes. Having host families may not be a great idea but it is a thought for the organization to save money.

[psbf]

Thankyou, jbirdmontana! Your first paragraph is exactly what I'm talking about.

[heavesrock]

Yes, but do host families have beds that can hold a 6-8 guy?

Also, most of the Pioneer League are very young just out of HS or College. A lot of CBA players are veterans in their late 20s or early to mid 30s. Do you really want John Strickland in your spare room?

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Yes, but do host families have beds that can hold a 6-8 guy?

Also, most of the Pioneer League are very young just out of HS or College. A lot of CBA players are veterans in their late 20s or early to mid 30s. Do you really want John Strickland in your spare room?

I was thinking the same thing. Would you want Keith Closs or Ronnie Fields under your same roof (unless you were a close relative)? It's not a nice thing to say, but would you want either of those guys sharing your living space? That's a major reason why to compare the popularity of minor league basketball with the popularity of minor league baseball is to compare night and day. There are too many character issues in basketball (whether real or perceived) compared to baseball. Fans pick up on that.

...and yes, I still think Minot should have gotten rid of Ronnie Fields LAST SEASON (just like they got rid of DayShawn Wright). Why leave yourself open to criticism? Is he THAT irreplaceable?

[psbf]

pictures of Friday's game, just go to; www.photobucket.com and type in my name. The first three photos are of the game.
I don't see why the Xplosion have to be singled out for our attendence problems when many others in the league are down also!

[heavesrock]

The only teams that have attendance figures significantly down from last year are Albany and GF.

[jbirdmontana]

That is very true, most of the baseball players are young kids that have respect for you helping them out. You make a great point about the character issues in basketball, there are many players out there that have been in alot of trouble.

[jbirdmontana]

Does anyone have the official number of how much the attendence in Great Falls is down this year?? I am very curious because it is way down.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

pictures of Friday's game, just go to; www.photobucket.com and type in my name. The first three photos are of the game.
I don't see why the Xplosion have to be singled out for our attendence problems when many others in the league are down also!

The others as you put it, seem to be having their own set of problems. A lot of broke owners out there in the CBA these days.

This is the first photo I found. I just like visuals. It would be nice if others posted photos also. Visuals help back-up statements like, "We had a GREAT crowd!"
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd51/psbf/XplosionhostEK004.jpg

Yes, I can see the people to the lower right this time. Looks like a handful of people sitting in a cavernous barn, but it IS a nice crowd by Xplosion standards.