Dakota is gone , no shock

[blanketman]

The uif had to let dakota go ther was no way around it. This was a good move for the uif. Maybe, this may save this league. The uif has had a very turbulent off season with this being the culmination of all the subtractions in the league. The owners simply would not pay him his large salary.

[preeths]

We appreciate your highly biased running commentary on UIF. Wish you weren't so threatened by the league.

[rams80]

The uif had to let dakota go ther was no way around it. This was a good move for the uif. Maybe, this may save this league. The uif has had a very turbulent off season with this being the culmination of all the subtractions in the league. The owners simply would not pay him his large salary.

What is left unsaid is that he stepped down so that he could own and run Omaha.

But thanks for putting your spin on it.

[blanketman]

I guess you guys think that he really wanted to leave his 80k guarantee salary away so he could lose money with the rest of the owners from San Diego. Preeths, I am much less bias about this league than you are about the other leagues. This is big news about a commissioner stepping down. Yet, no one brings this out on your forum .Preeths, why wouldnt you comment about this. I am on record , saying that this would happen . It had to happen.Omaha was in trouble;this was a good move for the league. You guys will not accept the troubles with this league, yet,you will bust all the other leagues at a whim.Some of my predictions have been wrong ,this is not one of them.Now, the Sprowls Family will own 25 percent of all the teams in the UIF, in their first season as football team owners , yet, this is the best representation of ownership in indoor football.Right.Its great that the Crow brothers got jobs again.

[IndoorExpert]

The uif had to let dakota go ther was no way around it. This was a good move for the uif. Maybe, this may save this league. The uif has had a very turbulent off season with this being the culmination of all the subtractions in the league. The owners simply would not pay him his large salary.

I know everyone of the UIF's fans will think of the press release as factual. Fact is, Blanketman is right on part of this. The UIF has begun to downsize their budgets which is why some of the teams left, and not because all of the owners who left couldnt pay the bills. Lexington certainly could pay the bills. The problem with Lexington is they let the press talk them into the af2. Louisville's comments in the press led to an egotistical jump to a league that could be the end of Lexington. Has no reflection of their ability to pay the UIF.

Under the direction of Dakota Crow, he sustained the league on its principle that were voted on by the owners. He did a decent job of sustaining the rules of engagement. That is called following your job title for those of you that have a job. The owners were looking for someone who would be creative and innovative which would grow the league slowly into national dominance. The fact is, the league has downsized and he is the one the blame falls on. He is the quarterback of the team, and for those of you that follow football know that the qb gets a majority of the blame. See: Donavon McNabb.

As far as this saving the league, I cant see it doing much. The salary for the next Executive Director will be a lot lower. This may or may not bring in someone with more initiative. We will have to wait and see.

The fact is, all teams across the country are moving leagues and shutting doors because they are losing money. This was no different than ANY other league. The UIF is trying to lower budgets. Dakota doesnt make the rules, he sustains them. This is a member owned league. I have been watching the fan rankings and most of them have the UIF ranked lower than the IFL. If this is how fans view the UIF, why is everyone still making excuses for the league.

Dakota did help sustain one member of the league with great tradition (Omaha). That is good for the league which was looking to lose a few more teams. If River City folded, Bloomington was on their way out. So the Sprowls buying two teams (I am curious to know what they paid) was to save the league from dropping to 5. Lets wait and see how well Omaha and River City turn out along with the expansion team. I am eager to see how Dakota relates to his coaching staff. For some reason he seems to think he is better than everyone else. That attitude will not work when dealing with coaches and players. He is now in the trenches. There is no indication that this is going to be a good year for the UIF.

Does anybody think Sioux Falls will win it again? Lets just wait and see how things go.

[IndoorExpert]

We appreciate your highly biased running commentary on UIF. Wish you weren't so threatened by the league.

Since the press release of Crow stepping down, I have been waiting to see who would write about this. It took days for anyone to respond. If this was a release on the AIFA or NIFL, there would have been at least 30 posts by now. Without calling anyone out, there is a lot of bias on this message board. Blanketman, keep loving your product and stay strong. Dont let anyone tell you not to be biased, as so are many others.

[blanketman]

Thanks Indoor expert. I cant believe preeths, Rams 80 wouldnt post on this subject matter. I waited myself to see if it would happen. Nothing. Not one comment from the so called "neutral commentators".Could you imagine if Jeff SPlitaleri Quit, Wow.It would have been everywhere. Instead, I post after 2 days and get preeths all over me . What a joke.

[exit322]

Since the press release of Crow stepping down, I have been waiting to see who would write about this. It took days for anyone to respond. If this was a release on the AIFA or NIFL, there would have been at least 30 posts by now. Without calling anyone out, there is a lot of bias on this message board. Blanketman, keep loving your product and stay strong. Dont let anyone tell you not to be biased, as so are many others.

It's simple. Right now, the UIF has earned the benefit of the doubt. It's goodwill. Since the Dayton incident in 2005, how many times have fans been burnt by the UIF?

Zero.

Until the UIF starts regularly screwing things up like the other indoor leagues, they're going to get the benefit of the doubt from fans. The AIFA and NIFL, beyond you and Joe Joe...they've not earned it yet. Same with the CIFL, really. I've said I think they're improving, but they (and they know this) have to prove it.

When the goodwill is really added into the equation, it makes sense. The UIF hasn't screwed anyone that posts on this board, and they've not done anything overtly stupid. When that happens, potentially "crippling" news doesn't really affect people, because we're still pretty sure the UIF will be fine. Are you that sure the AIFA and NIFL will be fine? No one else is. If you really think they're stronger than the UIF, you need your head examined.

[preeths]

Good post, exit. It is unfortunate that this sport is plagued by infighting amoung business owners who should be professional, not to mention adults, about things. Guys like blanketman are so concerned about perceived "bias" that they ignore the shortcomings of their own leagues and demand equal footing with those who have done well. Guys like blanketman will fling a lot of mud at the wall and hope some of it sticks or appears to stick. That's why no one buys your hogwash. Your agenda is transparent, your methods are questionable at best and therefore your conclusions irrelevant.

[preeths]

Thanks Indoor expert. I cant believe preeths, Rams 80 wouldnt post on this subject matter. I waited myself to see if it would happen. Nothing. Not one comment from the so called "neutral commentators".Could you imagine if Jeff SPlitaleri Quit, Wow.It would have been everywhere. Instead, I post after 2 days and get preeths all over me . What a joke.

What kind of commentary did you expect? This move has been in the works for weeks. It would be a shame if Jeff (or Tommy or Chad or Mike or John, etc.) stepped down, but honestly what would you expect to see on it? In all cases, it's not like Pete Rozelle retiring after decades of making the NFL the most popular league in the country. What is this? League downsizing, maybe. Wow, that makes for great headlines. Plus Crow's still involved with the league, only now on a team level with an equity stake.

No problem with you posting on it, but maybe three different threads was a bit of overkill, don't you think? It almost seems desperate on your part. The National Enquirer qualities of your opinions also keep many from taking them too seriously.

[blanketman]

You just cant and wont answer questions . Number 1 , dont compare three years of Dakota with what Pete Rozelle has done, thats ridiculious. 2.Did the sprowls save this league from being a Wifl + 1 league?3.Where are all these great teams in this league anymore besides Sioux Falls and maybe Billings?Preeths, you will spin everything on a positive note for the uif.Furthermore, if you or rams 80 wont comment on a commissioner stepping down after their most tumultuous offseason,then why comment on anything else.The cifl may continue to have some problems as you have documented many times;however, if you are truly neutral,comment on the news from all perpectives. If not change your name to "preeths uif advocate" and take the site adminstrator off the tag.

[Rocky]

blanketman...wasn't your called shot that Dakota would be gone and Omaha would fold? I know its in some thread somewhere, but I figured you'd be able to speak to your words directly.

As for this news, San Diego being in the mix is just as interesting to me as Crow. Indoor football doesn't have a great record for non-local owners, and in looking at their earlier press releases, you wonder if the owners are in this for the long haul with Omaha, or if this is a means to an end for a future San Diego team? As for Crow, I've never been a fan. I remember trying to find information about his company back when he was courting the NIFL, and he did indeed court the NIFL, and coming up with little/nothing. He strikes me as a me-first type...not a good trait for a leader.

I think less 'hot off the presses' threads are started in the UIF league because, frankly, it hasn't pissed off as many fans and employees. Shoot, look at the post count for the NIFL. The ABA thread gets tons of action compared to the other basketball leagues. NIFL for football as well. Everyone likes a train-wreck. With all its faults, a historical look at posts created over the past year shows that its not nearly as 'wrecked' as others.

[Rocky]

As far as Paul taking off the admin tag...its his freaking site! He hasn't hidden who he is! Anyone asking for him to change should at least have the decency to introduce themselves.

Signed,

Rocky Larson. Long-time football addict, sometimes newspaper reporter, underpaid former sports radio announcer, burned by the IFL, NIFL, UIF, and NIFL again-fan.

[exit322]

Good call Rocky. Who is Blanketman? I've already introduced myself (Josh Stein, former CIFL Communications Director) numerous times.

[IndoorExpert]

It's simple. Right now, the UIF has earned the benefit of the doubt. It's goodwill. Since the Dayton incident in 2005, how many times have fans been burnt by the UIF?

Zero.

Until the UIF starts regularly screwing things up like the other indoor leagues, they're going to get the benefit of the doubt from fans. The AIFA and NIFL, beyond you and Joe Joe...they've not earned it yet. Same with the CIFL, really. I've said I think they're improving, but they (and they know this) have to prove it.

When the goodwill is really added into the equation, it makes sense. The UIF hasn't screwed anyone that posts on this board, and they've not done anything overtly stupid. When that happens, potentially "crippling" news doesn't really affect people, because we're still pretty sure the UIF will be fine. Are you that sure the AIFA and NIFL will be fine? No one else is. If you really think they're stronger than the UIF, you need your head examined.

First off, I never said that the AIFA and NIFL were good or better leagues. I gave an example and maybe you dont understand the difference. If you check my ratings which are on record, you would simply see I have the UIF ranked second. I really get tired of the masses only taking part of a statement and twisting it around to sound important. I dont know who Joe is, but anybody that calls themself blue haired Joe isnt the kind of person I would associate myself with. That to me is ignorance and not accepting reality. Recheck my rankings.

No league earns the benefit of the doubt. Thats the problem with what Blanketman and I call bias. You earn credit by doing good business on a per game basis, not the successes of the past. Play all of your games, get the credit. Its that simple. Exit, you keep saying lets wait and see, except for the UIF. I say to all of you, lets wait and see. There is a lot of unchartered territory going on in the UIF. Many of you doubted this was going to happen. I hate to say I told you so, but I TOLD YOU SO! We will see this year if everything is status quo. At the end of the year it will be obvious what is real. You say that the CIFL must prove itself and quite frankly, so does the UIF. There is only one team besides Sioux Falls who pays the players big salaries, and that is Billings. We will have to see how competitive the league is. Isnt that part of a strong league? I also hope that Wichita has the pockets they claim to have, but its not always the deep pockets that is the concern. Its deep pockets and the willingness to spend. I have worked for an owner who had deep pockets but we had the lowest budget in the league. Its willingness to spend your hard earned money (or trustfund). The Sprowls havent been in an established league yet. The expenses will be far greater than what they did in San Diego. Whats even scarier is they have two teams. This move doesnt sound like the UIF of old.

I see the credit given to the IFL and rightfully so. Do any of you remember the Chad Dittman nightmares of the past. Do you remember all of the unpaid bills and lawsuits. Got so bad they shut down shop and got into the NIFL. They have now earned there position with what is real and not with bias. They continue to fulfill their game by game status. That is all I can ask for.

You claim that the UIF hasnt done anything since Dayton. You are kidding right? They do good damage control, but believe me there are problems. Since you are a CIFL boy, you wouldnt even know. Because I have some respect for the UIF, I will not get into what they have done or why, but lets not believe that they are perfect. Ask fans in all of the towns that the UIF left or changed ownership groups (Ft Wayne, Tupelo, Ohio Valley, etc.), and maybe you might find some useful information. You say goodwill, and I laugh at you.

Exit, arent you the one that tried to sabotage the league you worked for, and when you were caught you claimed that you were trying to help the league. I am not so sure you are the one to be making such bold predictions of leagues. If it was up to you, the CIFL would have folded and you would of started your own league, right? Well I dealt with the beginning of the UIF. All the talks for two years. I helped vote on every rule and bylaw. I did a great deal of work for the league without being compensated. I still speak to several executives in the league, and everyone inside doesnt share your expert view. So if they are waiting to see how this pans out, shouldnt you? This could possibly (pure speculation) be the last year of the UIF.

[arena_guru]

well you have to admit this is kinda working in reverse isnt it? most of the time its gm of teams tryin to work their way up to being dir. of a league, not the dir of a league stepping down to be gm of a team

[IndoorExpert]

well you have to admit this is kinda working in reverse isnt it? most of the time its gm of teams tryin to work their way up to being dir. of a league, not the dir of a league stepping down to be gm of a team

Good thought AG, but some people on here think this is great news. It was a step down for the UIF by lessening their budgets and for Dakota. The UIF came very close to being 5 teams. Now we have to see if this will work itself out for the better.

[The Abyss]

So whats the third team that would've been supposedly folding to make it 5 teams..Omaha, River city and..............

[IndoorExpert]

So whats the third team that would've been supposedly folding to make it 5 teams..Omaha, River city and..............


Bloomington was also talking about leaving if River City left.........

[rams80]

Bloomington was also talking about leaving if River City left.........

Bloomington was also just talking about leaving, and may leave if the Peoria experiment doesn't fail.

[exit322]

I find it funny that whenever someone can't win an argument, they bring up the email Sean and I sent out. I've always found that funny. "Well, my argument isn't as good as yours, so I'll try to defame you."

Sometimes it takes a seemingly ridiculos move to get people to listen. With the CIFL, this was certainly one of those instances, as they've finally taken the initiative to fix their mistakes. I hope it continues.

[IndoorExpert]

I find it funny that whenever someone can't win an argument, they bring up the email Sean and I sent out. I've always found that funny. "Well, my argument isn't as good as yours, so I'll try to defame you."

Sometimes it takes a seemingly ridiculos move to get people to listen. With the CIFL, this was certainly one of those instances, as they've finally taken the initiative to fix their mistakes. I hope it continues.

Arent you the one that had to twist my words around to make you look as if you understood what I was saying. You couldnt merely disagree and quote my argument in its entirety. I am not looking for your approval. Secondly, I didnt bring up your situation because you were winning an argument. I have yet to see you win an argument as you say. I have never needed to win on a message board. So I dont need to defame you as you say, you do that on your own.

If you were part of the league office, I would agree that was seemingly ridiculous. I think you could have made more changes doing it more professionally and not anonymously. Do you honestly take the credit for fixing the CIFL problems, or do you think that this league was already heading this direction without the sabotage? In my opinion, the CIFL is surviving because of their geographic footprint, and the owners will all stay decently happy with the arrangements.

[preeths]

I think the big thing these threads are showing is why the various indoor football organizations have such a hard time working together. Arguments really turn quickly into demonizing the opposition, whether it be Dakota Crow, former league employees or team personnel. There's never any middle ground. For instance, to some Crow is completely to blame for any UIF troubles, but deserves none of the credit for making it a stable league. If you attempt to point out any evidence to the contrary or the inherent illogic in that statement, you're called biased. Ridiculous. It's too bad more people in indoor football can't act like adults.

[IndoorExpert]

I think the big thing these threads are showing is why the various indoor football organizations have such a hard time working together. Arguments really turn quickly into demonizing the opposition, whether it be Dakota Crow, former league employees or team personnel. There's never any middle ground. For instance, to some Crow is completely to blame for any UIF troubles, but deserves none of the credit for making it a stable league. If you attempt to point out any evidence to the contrary or the inherent illogic in that statement, you're called biased. Ridiculous. It's too bad more people in indoor football can't act like adults.


Yes, you are right, egos always get in the way. You call it pointing out evidence to the contrary while others call it bias. These arguments are based on which league the individual prefers. Who is really right? I guess that depends on who you are and the perceptions you believe in. People tend to twist words around to get their desired opinion to appear correct. Lets face it, every league but the IFL had good and bad off-seasons, can we at least agree on that?

I guess it does get a little childish at times. I watched an argument with Mr Boyd and couldnt believe the simplicity of such a large argument. I guess there is many forms of adults, right Preeths?

[preeths]

Well, no. Mr. Boyd was simply wrong. I think anyone who can look at the history of indoor team with late starts can attest to that. Someone could come on here and argue passionately that the world is made of snow, but that doesn't jibe with the facts as we know them. The fact that Mr. Boyd's own team failed in less than half a season lent additional doubt to the argument. I too am surprised that he kept arguing even after conceding the point on sponsorships alone.

I think where you're missing the boat is that these boards were not full of UIF praise before the undue criticism started. You can look it up. Then a couple of people came on shouting to the heavens how UIF was done, how it was all Crow's fault, etc., etc. You consider it bias, but all that's really been offered is a pretty weak defense of the league and its personnel in light of the attacks against them. If someone came on attacking the IFL or Tommy Benizio after last year, you'd see the same thing, for the same reason.

[IndoorExpert]

Well, no. Mr. Boyd was simply wrong. I think anyone who can look at the history of indoor team with late starts can attest to that. Someone could come on here and argue passionately that the world is made of snow, but that doesn't jibe with the facts as we know them. The fact that Mr. Boyd's own team failed in less than half a season lent additional doubt to the argument. I too am surprised that he kept arguing even after conceding the point on sponsorships alone.

I think where you're missing the boat is that these boards were not full of UIF praise before the undue criticism started. You can look it up. Then a couple of people came on shouting to the heavens how UIF was done, how it was all Crow's fault, etc., etc. You consider it bias, but all that's really been offered is a pretty weak defense of the league and its personnel in light of the attacks against them. If someone came on attacking the IFL or Tommy Benizio after last year, you'd see the same thing, for the same reason.

I am surely not agreeing with Mr Boyd, but it was a long argument I thought was quite childish. Could have been ended much quicker.

It really doesnt matter whose at fault at this point. I knew for several reasons that Crow was on his way out. Good or bad, hes gone and frankly I am not sure if it will be for better or worse based on how the owners are viewing it. This board does seem to praise the UIF and thats fine. I call this the UIF board. Have love for your product. Dont let opinions overlook the facts. They did a good job for a few years, but the shelf life for teams remains the same. They didnt revolutionize the game and they are experiencing what all other leagues have before them.

[preeths]

I would say you set the bar pretty high, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Let's just hold everyone to the same standards then and recognize those who come the closest to living up to them.

[IndoorExpert]

I would say you set the bar pretty high, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Let's just hold everyone to the same standards then and recognize those who come the closest to living up to them.

Sounds like a plan..............

[Jamie]

I think where you're missing the boat is that these boards were not full of UIF praise before the undue criticism started.

That is the key to this whole rediculous thread.

Bottom line, over the last couple years, there has been very little discussion of UIF here... for two reasons:

1. Except for those of us in Dayton, very few individual fans were getting screwed. Did they have troubles? Of course. But they played their games.

2. UIF has had an active, independent, message board home for fans to post comments, good or bad, on Dan's message board. One reason (among many) that so many NIFL fans posted here was because this was the only place to go...

[IndoorExpert]

That is the key to this whole rediculous thread.

Bottom line, over the last couple years, there has been very little discussion of UIF here... for two reasons:

1. Except for those of us in Dayton, very few individual fans were getting screwed. Did they have troubles? Of course. But they played their games.

2. UIF has had an active, independent, message board home for fans to post comments, good or bad, on Dan's message board. One reason (among many) that so many NIFL fans posted here was because this was the only place to go...

I thought this was Our Sports Central. Every league in existence has their own fan board. This board is a collective place of all leagues. I am not sure where you are going with the UIF and NIFL comparison. I am curious how many people are currently a NIFL supporter?

[preeths]

The point he was making is the same one I made. Until the over-the-top criticism of Crow and UIF started, there wasn't much UIF talk here, positive or negative. It's not that it isn't welcome, it is just a fact that there wasn't much discussion going on here.

[IndoorExpert]

The point he was making is the same one I made. Until the over-the-top criticism of Crow and UIF started, there wasn't much UIF talk here, positive or negative. It's not that it isn't welcome, it is just a fact that there wasn't much discussion going on here.

How come it is so hard to fathom that the UIF had problems, they just have very strict guidelines as far as press information? I think that is how a league should be, but it is also kind of smoke screening. We all know that the press loves the negative stories even when it isnt true.

If you read some of the quotes from others, Crow does not have a great reputation. He is known for grandstanding even without facts to back things up. It really wasnt an attack on the UIF as you say, but the truth of a good league going through the pains that everyone else goes through. Again, the UIF doesnt leak a lot of information and hands out hefty fines for doing so.

The approximate amount of criticism should be given to the facts of each league. There is obviously many who support the UIF on this board and that is fine. Just dont say that others cant love their product with equal intentions. I would rather a league have its shotcomings early in their existence rather then a few years post existence. That holds true in any business model in America, it should be better with each passing year.

I will say this, I am a fan of teams across the country that do things right. I dont have a preference of league, because they all have their good and bad. Lets wait and see how things turn out during the 2008 season and revisit the league arguments after this season. This year is the most crucial year for many leagues out there.

[preeths]

How come it is so hard to fathom that the UIF had problems, they just have very strict guidelines as far as press information? I think that is how a league should be, but it is also kind of smoke screening. We all know that the press loves the negative stories even when it isnt true.

We know UIF had some problems! That's not a surprise to anyone. It is a minor league after all. Why can't you understand that we're not defending UIF as a perfect league, or even a nearly perfect one, just one of the two best things indoor football has going up to this point? If you play all your games, some might be amazed at just how forgiving the press is. Even the NIFL was granted a free pass by most of the media for the longest time until the scandals started involving known con men and mass team firings.

If you read some of the quotes from others, Crow does not have a great reputation. He is known for grandstanding even without facts to back things up. It really wasnt an attack on the UIF as you say, but the truth of a good league going through the pains that everyone else goes through. Again, the UIF doesnt leak a lot of information and hands out hefty fines for doing so.

We're also not claiming Crow is a saint. No one is. Obviously, some people don't like him. I can think of a couple in Casper, for instance. Still, you present only one side of the story, and that's why others hop to the other side. Look for more of the other side of the story later this week. If you had shown yourself to be more even-handed, I don't think the conversation would have taken the course it did.

The approximate amount of criticism should be given to the facts of each league. There is obviously many who support the UIF on this board and that is fine. Just dont say that others cant love their product with equal intentions. I would rather a league have its shotcomings early in their existence rather then a few years post existence. That holds true in any business model in America, it should be better with each passing year.

You're still not seeing the facts. There really aren't a whole lot of UIF supporters on this board. That was Jamie's point! There are a lot of people who know a smear campaign when they see it, though, and they will react to it. Who here has ever said that anyone can't love another product!?

I will say this, I am a fan of teams across the country that do things right. I dont have a preference of league, because they all have their good and bad. Lets wait and see how things turn out during the 2008 season and revisit the league arguments after this season. This year is the most crucial year for many leagues out there.

Every year is a crucial year for these leagues. Some of the underlying problems need to be taken care of and that includes dealing with the animosity that keeps some of these people from working together. Until then, you can expect running commentary from message boards.

[IndoorExpert]

You are kidding, right? Did you just say that there arent many UIF supporters on this board. I beg to differ.

If you read the other side as you say, why dont you comment on the fact that I said I am not sure Dakota's exit will be for better or worse? I dont believe Dakota did a great job, but I certainly think that it could be run worse. The fact is, it might get worse. The soapbox has now been removed and the good part about life is you cant hide from the truth. I got my popcorn ready to watch this play out.

[Jamie]

You are kidding, right? Did you just say that there arent many UIF supporters on this board. I beg to differ.

Beg away. Get some knee pads.

The majority of UIF fans may visit here... but spend more time talking about their teams at unitedindoorfans than they do here.

Undeniable fact. Just look at the post counts for the different leagues.

I'm not defending the UIF. I dislike the UIF because I was personally screwed by the Dayton mess. I and others lost season ticket money. But very few fans in other UIF markets were personally screwed over. That is the kind of crap that drives fans to blather on message boards. Not the behind the scenes problems THAT NO ONE IS DISPUTING!

[preeths]

You are kidding, right? Did you just say that there arent many UIF supporters on this board. I beg to differ.

If you read the other side as you say, why dont you comment on the fact that I said I am not sure Dakota's exit will be for better or worse? I dont believe Dakota did a great job, but I certainly think that it could be run worse. The fact is, it might get worse. The soapbox has now been removed and the good part about life is you cant hide from the truth. I got my popcorn ready to watch this play out.

It's apparent that everyone is either with you or against you on this, and you cannot see that some feel your criticism is too harsh, and that's why they've defended UIF, not because they're league or Crow fans. I'll say it yet again, there aren't really that many UIF supporters on this board. Yes, there are some, but the league also has its detractors here. Simple fact that a non-UIF fan such as Jamie can attest to. Some of the people who've debated you on these points include a former CIFL employee and team owners from other leagues!

[IndoorExpert]

[QUOTE=Jamie;68999]Beg away. Get some knee pads.

Undeniable fact. Just look at the post counts for the different leagues.

I'm not defending the UIF. I dislike the UIF because I was personally screwed by the Dayton mess./QUOTE]

That is exactly the point. No need for knee pads, but I can see how many people already have them.

The post count tends to show the way this board is structured. Again, why did it take so long to discuss a major event such as Dakota stepping down? Why dont you check on the fans in Tupelo, Ft Wayne, and Ohio Valley and see if anyone was personally screwed. Again, we seem to be giving the UIF a pass on some of there issues, but not others. The UIF travel situation is getting ugly. Dont you think that is going to attribute to more problems? The only teams that have a good geographic footprint is Sioux Falls, Sioux City, and Omaha. Other leagues are noticing this trend and making there divisions more regional. Do you think that will help some organizations become more viable? Lets stop looking at the past and start looking at the present. The UIF had a great three year run, and that is undeniable, but that run is changing. One last question, do you think that a multiple team ownership strengthens the league? That would have never happened a few years ago.

[IndoorExpert]

It's apparent that everyone is either with you or against you on this, and you cannot see that some feel your criticism is too harsh, and that's why they've defended UIF, not because they're league or Crow fans. I'll say it yet again, there aren't really that many UIF supporters on this board. Yes, there are some, but the league also has its detractors here. Simple fact that a non-UIF fan such as Jamie can attest to. Some of the people who've debated you on these points include a former CIFL employee and team owners from other leagues!

If only people would stop trying to police the harshness of others criticism. We all have a right to voice our concerns. I have no motive against the UIF. I am merely asking people to look at the facts of the UPCOMING year and not base their opinions from the past. This is a new day and time for the UIF, and we have to WAIT and SEE! Just like I see people saying we have to wait and see if the CIFL improves. I hate to say it, but they have such a good geographic footprint that its hard to count them out as an up and comer. Owners will be quite happy with their travel budgets which has been one of the largest concerns in indoor football.

[preeths]

No one is trying to police anything. Stop worrying about being censored and start making cogent, consistent arguments. Any reasonable person has to partially base his opinions on the past, on history. Those who don't remember are doomed to repeat. The strength of a league is in its ownership. A good geographic footprint certainly helps, but owners are where it starts.

[rams80]

[QUOTE=Jamie;68999]Beg away. Get some knee pads.

Undeniable fact. Just look at the post counts for the different leagues.

I'm not defending the UIF. I dislike the UIF because I was personally screwed by the Dayton mess./QUOTE]

That is exactly the point. No need for knee pads, but I can see how many people already have them.

The post count tends to show the way this board is structured. Again, why did it take so long to discuss a major event such as Dakota stepping down? Why dont you check on the fans in Tupelo, Ft Wayne, and Ohio Valley and see if anyone was personally screwed. Again, we seem to be giving the UIF a pass on some of there issues, but not others. The UIF travel situation is getting ugly. Dont you think that is going to attribute to more problems? The only teams that have a good geographic footprint is Sioux Falls, Sioux City, and Omaha. Other leagues are noticing this trend and making there divisions more regional. Do you think that will help some organizations become more viable? Lets stop looking at the past and start looking at the present. The UIF had a great three year run, and that is undeniable, but that run is changing. One last question, do you think that a multiple team ownership strengthens the league? That would have never happened a few years ago.

Well...the Fort Wayne fans seem to think they got screwed more by the af2 than the UIF...but that's neither here nor there.

There aren't that many UIF fans who post here...ergo this board usually lies dormant. Tupelo doesn't really have online fans IIRC, and anyway died of natural causes as opposed to the league structure, while the few Ohio Valley fans seem to have moved on; the team itself also died more from attendance issues than the league. Such things happen.

How is the travel situation getting ugly for the UIF? They dropped the eastern outliers. If anything, it should be getting better.

[Freedom]

Indoor Expert,

Why is Dakota stepping down a major event? More than likely 95% of the fans wouldn't know who Dakota is or what he even did for the league. And presumably the league will hire a replacement. You keep asking why fans didn't jump all over this, what I wanna know is why you think they should have?

You also asked a question about fans being screwed. As former (UIF) "Freedom" fan I didn't get screwed over because all Freedom games were played as advertised. The same can be said about OV, Tupelo or any of the other former UIF teams you mentioned. So why do think the UIF has somehow had a negative affect on it's fans?

The "free pass" you talk of was not free. It was earned. The UIF did a great job from 2005-2006, and as far as I know 2007 was complaint free as well - (Unless you're a SF Storm hater) :) With some leagues having problems with the BASIC principle of making sure the game is played, why do you consider the UIF accomplishments a "free pass"?

Now if my team still played in the UIF I could possibly be a little concerned with the upcoming season, but as you stated all we can do is wait and see. These will be new issues, and how the league handles them will determine their success, it's not up to you, preeths or anyone else . . .

[IndoorExpert]

Well enough said, next topic, I have my popcorn ready.............

[rams80]

Well enough said, next topic, I have my popcorn ready.............

Translation...I was Owned.

[cRUSHer]

We appreciate your highly biased running commentary on UIF.
Wish you weren't so threatened by the league.

priceless .

[IndoorExpert]

Translation...I was Owned.

Translation...........In your dreams. Not once have you ever been able to dispute my points of interest. Just dance around them and change the subject. Isnt that because you were owned?

[rams80]

Translation...........In your dreams. Not once have you ever been able to dispute my points of interest. Just dance around them and change the subject. Isnt that because you were owned?

You were fired by some franchise and now bear a grudge against the entire league. Tell you what, based on personal experience here...you can better get your point across if you don't irrationally bash leagues all the time.

[IndoorExpert]

You were fired by some franchise and now bear a grudge against the entire league. Tell you what, based on personal experience here...you can better get your point across if you don't irrationally bash leagues all the time.

I dont think stating the facts about a league is bashing them. You seem to hate that all of these problems are plaguing the UIF. You would think you owned the league. I still have many friends in this league. So I dont see the issue here. For your information, I prayed to get fired because: my contract was guaranteed and I was one of the higher paid coaches/general managers in the league, and the owner ruined the team to save his money. I built a business from scratch and all I did is bring in more money than anyone else before me. The owner just wanted to survive and I wanted a professional organization. That was asking to much. That is why I set the bar so high. I watched all of my hard work go for not. So I am well versed in seeing how owners can ruin franchises. Due to this experience, I now know what questions, facts, and figures to request before I accept a job. So I was not mad at the league, I was mad at the owner and him alone. I loved the teams in the league when it first began. The UIF had a great and professional run, but fact is, the shelf life of this game is not long.

There are people out here working on a new business model that will strengthen things for the future. Just wait and see.............

[preeths]

I'll agree with you on that point. Jenter did not run a professional organization, and you're not the first one who's said that. It is hard to judge the performance of anyone who worked under him because they were not given the tools they needed to get the job done.

[IndoorExpert]

I'll agree with you on that point. Jenter did not run a professional organization, and you're not the first one who's said that. It is hard to judge the performance of anyone who worked under him because they were not given the tools they needed to get the job done.

There are many people who understand what he was about, but I appreciate you pointing that out. He had the money but didnt want to spend it and wanted to operate on a budget that a high school team couldnt use. In the debacle of going UIF because the budget doubled, I lost 32 players of my 40 man training camp roster. I had signed one of the best team around. I believe 19 players I signed went to Everett and they went undefeated, another 6 players went to Tri-Cities and they won the championship. That was the hardest part, my hands were tied. So for anyone that knows me, I am certainly not against the UIF, I am against some owners that I have worked for. I did wish that year we would have stayed with Wyoming and played in the NIFL.

[Freedom]

You were fired by some franchise and now bear a grudge against the entire league.

Ahh, so that's the story behind all this . . .

[IndoorExpert]

Ahh, so that's the story behind all this . . .

I have tons of respect for many people in the UIF. Just not all of them.....

[Pounder]

First off, the whole line of thinking about this message board being the place to fight league v league (or league v leaque) battles is funny to me. Two main reasons:

(1) The objective is to try to sell tickets in YOUR market.

(2) A commissioner to a league, when done right, is much like the coach to the players. The players are the product. The coach can only do so much to elevate them... and can probably do a little more to deflate them. Other than that, in reality, the coach is window dressing. Commissioners are a mouthpiece of owners, generally.

(Of course, #2 leads to the question of whether the "strong commissioner" leagues, like, oh, Carolyn Shiver and Joe Newman's outfits, are anything near ideal.)

What's unfortunate is that the character assassination / negative campaigning thing between leagues is WAY... too... reminiscent of... do I even need to say it? Too many people in today's society have been trained to believe that it IS the game. That's the saddest part of this.

One thing of note: UIF makes the fewest mistakes. My thought is that the UIF is going to remain being held in high regard until it makes more mistakes... which is eminently possible. HOWEVER, they actually have to happen first. We know CIFL and AIFA have issues, and pretty damaging ones at that. Until the UIF has a similar failure of delivery, most fans will likely maintain their outlook based on the past. You cannot address the future until it is present.

[BIGPBEEF]

why can't we just look forward to a successful 2008 season!!!!!!!!!