Would the CFL ever consider coming back down South again?

[uflorlandofan]

My question is this. If the Bills ever left Buffalo do you think the CFL would put a team in Buffalo? I know there is alot of speculation about the Bills leaving Buffalo and I think that would be one city that the CFL would have alot of luck in, think Labbatts Beer........

[Shootmaster_44]

I don't think the CFL has any designs on moving south in the near future. Possibly in 10 or 15 years when all the potential Canadian markets are filled. But the CFL almost folded as a result of American expansion last time, so I doubt it will consider it until it has no more Canadian markets to expand into.

[Minor League Man]

I don't think the CFL has any designs on moving south in the near future. Possibly in 10 or 15 years when all the potential Canadian markets are filled. But the CFL almost folded as a result of American expansion last time, so I doubt it will consider it until it has no more Canadian markets to expand into.
The closest I would see the CFL coming to the USA anytime soon would be if there was a team in the Pontiac Silverdome.

Still, then it would be considered Windsor, Ontario's team (not Detroit's)

[Strong Island Sound]

The only really successfulfranchise in the CFL US expansion was the Baltimore CFL Colts, aka Stallions.

They probably wouldn't make the move again. It is an interesting league and has a niche where it is.

The Buffalo Bills are looking into the possibility of playing a regular season game in Toronto next year. That would be a separate game from the NFL International Series.

[rider]

I think they would consider US border type cities such as Rochester New York or Detroit, Portland cities that are close to the border who are familiar to the CFL. example: rochester new york would be a excellent CFL city directly across the lake from Toronto. Rochester televsion broadcast cfl games.

They can't wait for Canadian cities to produce stadiums , how long has it been already years! They need the expansion revenue!

One poster said that the US expansion almost killed the CFL, actually it was the opposite the US expansion actually saved the league fiancially with the expansion fees. The league was desperate for cash.

[Pounder]

Every city getting a CFL team will be angling for an NFL team...

(This is where I would have said "including Detroit," but that was a better joke 2 years ago than it is now.)

...what good is that for stability?

[Shootmaster_44]

I think they would consider US border type cities such as Rochester New York or Detroit, Portland cities that are close to the border who are familiar to the CFL. example: rochester new york would be a excellent CFL city directly across the lake from Toronto. Rochester televsion broadcast cfl games.

They can't wait for Canadian cities to produce stadiums , how long has it been already years! They need the expansion revenue!

One poster said that the US expansion almost killed the CFL, actually it was the opposite the US expansion actually saved the league fiancially with the expansion fees. The league was desperate for cash.

It did nearly kill the CFL though. The league was bleeding money left and right, if the NFL had not stepped in in 1995 and loaned the CFL a pile of cash, my Roughriders would not be playing in the Grey Cup today. I remember the "Save the Riders" telethon that ran a few days before the NFL deal was worked out. The Riders didn't sell the number of tickets they needed to break even, but the NFL money balanced it out.

The reason the league was bleeding money was that yes there were expansion fees that were brought in, but the American clubs were losing so much money that the CFL had to consistently bail them out.

Either way, I think it would be a major mistake to expand into the US with viable Canadian cities without franchises. The CFL is on the best ground it has been since 1983 and doesn't need the influx of expansion fees.

The one thing I'm curious is who initiated American expansion? Was it the CFL or was it the Sacramento Surge's owner? The way I heard it was he wasn't happy the NFL suspended the WLAF and wanted to keep his team alive and went out looking for a league. He approached the CFL and they said yes and approved both Sacramento and the San Antonio franchise that never materialized. I think that same off-season was the embarrassing Orlando fiasco, where they had a press conference scheduled and the owner literally said backstage at the presser that he had changed his mind about the franchise.

[Berkshirian]

However, if the Bills DID move to Toronto, Buffalo would be a great CFL city! If there were to be American expansion, it should be focused on border area "triple A" type markets such as Rochester, NY, Grand Rapids, MI, or Portland, OR.

The league can't wait forever for Halifax or Quebec City to build stadia, or Ottawa to figure out where they are in this whole thing. The league must think about growth, and stable growth within the US would be in the types of cities I mentioned.

Thoughts?

[tops804]

...would like to see more of the CFL??? Leading up to franchises in the United
States again?

Sad to say, but past history indicates that there is not enough interest in the
United States to build on...The CFL is pretty much a non-factor.

July - November

MLB, NFL pre-season & regular season, College Football, NBA...All dominate
sports networks...I would love to see a CFL game once a week on ESPN
again. Interest leads to ratings, leading to advertisers paying more & more
for commercial time. Once a network sees no profit, they pull the plug on
the telecasts. If we won't watch it, I doubt that any major city would
or could support it.

[logoguru]

At the time, San Antonio and Baltimore wanted to continue but the CFL wouldnt let them so Baltimore moved to Montreal and San Antonio was forced to fold. Since then they have been addiment about it being Canadas game as a marketing gimmick, but I think it is in their best interest to stay. I would also like to see how the UFL and AAFL do before the CFL makes a move south.
________
MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENCERIES IN SANTA CLARITA (http://www.dispensaries.org/)

[Berkshirian]

I mearly said IF they wanted to move into the US, they should use the types of markets I put out there as examples.

The expansion to the US was actually a mixed bag. It wasn't all bad. I think one major problem was the rapid rate of expansion, and then the markets they chose were distant, and not to cities with pro pedigrees.

A city like Buffalo (if the Bills go), or Rochester, HAVE track records as great minor league sports towns, so seeing a CFL team would elevate their perceived status (ok maybe not Buffalo) as minor league to big league, and the team would be embraced. Stay close to the border, where the CFL is somewhat known. Grand Rapids! Rochester! Even a Milwaukee or a Spokane!

Not only would these metro areas be comparable in size to half the existing CFL teams, they have good sports support track records, UNLIKE the Shreveports and Las Vegases of the world.

Look, the CFL knows 8 is not enough. THEY are talking about expansion. You need about 12 to start thinking "we're all set and don't need to expand." Expand SLOWLY, one or even two, but then a good 3 or 4 years to the next. TRY to get things sorted out for Ottawa, Quebec City, Halifax, or even Moncton, but don't automatically preclude the IDEA of going back to the US, using the failed past experiences to learn from. Slow, selective growth will beat out an overnight blitz of new teams any day.

And a marketing campaign can EASILY be changed, don't worry about the Radically Canadian thing..............

[rams80]

Would passports and the increased border restrictions be a problem?

[Pounder]

Probably no more of a problem than it is for various hockey leagues.

Hockey has the added inconvenience of national "governing bodies" kind of at odds with each other.

[Aaronhere]

Of all of the cities the CFL was in down here, only Baltimore drew the fans in. Las Vegas was a joke. I could see the UFL and the CFL getting together, maybe down the road. I love the CFL, and wish they were in the US. I also miss the games on ESPN. I think any expansion plans for the CFL have to include Ottawa and/or the Maritime provinces before they go south again.

[Paul S]

THe other thing was when the US expansion took place, other than Sacramento everyone was on a payment plan.

Expansion was 3 million. Sacramento Surge paid up front and changed their name to the Gold Miners from the WLAF. All the other teams were paying 300K a year for 10 years. The CFL braintrust figured this would be a great way to defer the money and keep a steady profit coming in.,,,, until the teams went belly up.

THe only except was Nick or Larry Milleti (can't remember first name). He came in and bought the Las Vegas Posse. He had owned a NBA team and had tried to start a Canadian Basketball League. So he had some credibility. He went to teh CFL and said "lend me 3 million dollars and I'll buy a team". Incredibly the CFL went for this. Vegas folded.

THe NFL loan was only 5 million which was chump-change to them. It definately saved the CFL though.

Some guy in NY tried to put a team in Yankee stadium in the 70's. Even got the blessing of the Yankees to do it. The CFL turned him down on a tight vote.

More recently the CFL has been approached a'la Las Vegas Posse style and someone said "lend me money to build a stadium in Anchorage and I'll put a team there" THe CFL said NO (thats NON in Montreal.)

They had interest in the Detroit-Windsor situation but so far it hasn't panned out. THere also was talk of a Victoria BC team in the early 90's. Victoria had the COmmonwealth games and they were going to build a brand new purpose built stadium for it and get a CFL team. Problem was the Commonwealth games money comes from UK TV rights, Canadian TV rights and Australian TV rights. Victoria is 8 hours behind London, live tv would be on at late night, so the BBC bid low, the stadium idea was killed and they temporarily upgraded UVIC stadium to 20 odd thousand. Now UVIC won't let anyone onto THEIR publically built and financed stadium.

Portland Oregon had a CFL game in the early 90's too to test the market, it did ok. But it was billed as Doug Flutie vs Rocket Ismael and got about 19k.

I'm fairly confident that when the NFL lent the CFL the money to survive they put some things into place that basically said, you stay out of our backyard and we;ll stay out of yours. They were gonna have a yearly (4 downs) game with the Grey Cup champion vs the winner of NFLeuropes world bowl. Problem was for whatever reason they couldn't find a seperate insurance package for it, the current insurance wouldn't allow it and they couldn't find a one off package for resonable money.

[tops804]

The CFL or TSN, had a very weak broadcasting agreement with AmericaOne
network over the past few years. (At least six that I can count). A1 is a
network that provides programming to mostly, low-powered, television
stations.

It is the Canadian cable broadcast of the game, but if your local station has
other programming, it is possible to see the broadcast stop being shown mid-
game. Kind of a let down which I learned this past fall. Most LP stations
get their feeds from several different sources. Those sources, usually don't care
or regulate how their programming is shown.

The last real cable deal in the U.S., I believe was with SportChannel in the early
to mid-90's. It didn't last long.

[logoguru]

The last real cable deal in the U.S., I believe was with SportChannel in the earlyto mid-90's. It didn't last long.

Primeticket in "LA"...Fox bought them and a bunch of others to form FoxSportsNet.
________
Ocean View Condos (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

[Shootmaster_44]

The CFL or TSN, had a very weak broadcasting agreement with AmericaOne
network over the past few years. (At least six that I can count). A1 is a
network that provides programming to mostly, low-powered, television
stations.

It is the Canadian cable broadcast of the game, but if your local station has
other programming, it is possible to see the broadcast stop being shown mid-
game. Kind of a let down which I learned this past fall. Most LP stations
get their feeds from several different sources. Those sources, usually don't care
or regulate how their programming is shown.

The last real cable deal in the U.S., I believe was with SportChannel in the early
to mid-90's. It didn't last long.

Yes America One was a broadcaster of the CFL. However, that's not the only channel the CFL was shown on in the US. According to this list (http://www.cfl.ca/index.php?module=page&id=314) the CFL is also shown on most Comcast Sports Network stations.

However, with the lack of a push to get on tv in the US, leads me to believe the CFL has no major interest in pushing the product there. It seems the tv deal with TSN in Canada is worth enough money to the league, that they are content to be on smaller networks.

Attendance is up in the CFL, merchandising revenues are up, tv revenues are up, is it really necessary for the league to focus on the US? I don't think so. Its time the CFL realizes that you build the game up at home before you export it elsewhere. Mark Cohon is a smart man and seems to have realized that hasty expansion is not the way to go.

Perhaps one day the CFL will be on ESPN or ESPN2 again, but I'm not sure it matters too much to the league. The deals didn't bring in a pile of cash anyhow. So why bust your neck trying to reach them?

As for expansion into the US, I doubt that would happen any time soon. If it were to occur, the US Immigration Department would have to allow the import ratio. I think in hindsight the CFL realized without the requisite Canadian players on the US teams, the game was not truly Canadian anymore and risked being homogenized into the four down game. The other thing I think any expansion into the US would require is a stadium that could properly hold a Canadian sized field. I don't think the CFL wants to play on a field that isn't the regulation size, as they did with US expansion. Essentially, any US ownership group would be required to meet CFL rules to have a team. The league isn't going to bend over backward for them again.

I think the only plausible site for CFL expansion is Buffalo if the Bills moved. However, that is only possible if Ralph Wilson Stadium can accommodate a proper CFL field. If the Bills stay put, then the only CFL expansion you will see is within Canada. For some reason Ottawa is the front runner (though I question why?) and Quebec City is number two. With the renos the Universite du Laval is doing to PEPS, coupled with the condemned stadium in Ottawa, Quebec City may have a team sooner than planned. Apparently PEPS will be up to 25,000 capacity with proper facilities in time for the fall. So I'd expect to see a team in Quebec City in the next 3 or 4 years.

[Pounder]

...and I highly doubt Ralph Wilson can accomodate the Canadian dimensions.

None of the MLS parks can. They're selling point is intimacy. No 20-yard endzones.

Didn't the CFL occupy at least three American stadia with running tracks? That's the only way it worked down here, except none of them really worked... Baltimore sold tickets, little else did.

[Shootmaster_44]

...and I highly doubt Ralph Wilson can accomodate the Canadian dimensions.

None of the MLS parks can. They're selling point is intimacy. No 20-yard endzones.

Didn't the CFL occupy at least three American stadia with running tracks? That's the only way it worked down here, except none of them really worked... Baltimore sold tickets, little else did.

I don't believe any of the US stadiums in the CFL had a proper field. The closest seems to me was the Alamodome in San Antonio which had a 110 yard field with 15 yard end zones. The rest had tiny end zones to accommodate for the 110 yard field. In fact, one of the teams did not even have a 110 yard field, they simply had a "55" painted at the US 45 yard line on one side.

But in the CIS (Canadian NCAA) some schools do have a running track that makes up part of the end zone. In fact, at the University of Manitoba, University Stadium's end zones are entirely track. http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=university+stadium,+winnipeg&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=32.417211,96.328125&ie=UTF8&ll=49.806363,-97.146285&spn=0.003947,0.011759&t=h&z=17&om=0
That's the Google Earth image of it. So in theory if any of the MLS stadiums or any other stadiums have enough track, the field could fit. However, to hear the CIS players talk about University Stadium, scoring TDs are not a pleasant experience.

[firewolff]

If there were to be American expansion, it should be focused on border area "triple A" type markets such as Rochester, NY, Grand Rapids, MI, or Portland, OR.

The league can't wait forever for Halifax or Quebec City to build stadia, or Ottawa to figure out where they are in this whole thing. The league must think about growth, and stable growth within the US would be in the types of cities I mentioned.

Thoughts?

I would love to see the CFL in Portland. There was an exhibition game in the '90's. I was there and there was a big crowd. Paul Allen (of the Trailblazers) decided against it, though. I'm not sure, however, if PGE Park can fit the CFL field.

I personally am a big fan and have been up to Vancouver a number of times to see the Lions and even a Grey Cup.

[panchess]

..particularly with NFL Europa gone. There was talk that the NFL Network was going to start broadcasting CFL games next season, both to get some live content on NFL Network and promote CFL players that might end up in the NFL.

Ralph Wilson Stadium can't handle a CFL field without alteration. I don't know if Paetek Park in Rochester (where the Raging Rhinos soccer team plays) can, but I think Rochester would be an interesting market for the CFL. They don't have a D1 football team, and have a million people in the metro. Grand Rapids fits the bill.

I do think any CFL expansion into the US should be in places that have stadia suitable for a CFL field.

[DCNationals]

For many of the reasons listed above, I agree that expansion into the US would not be a good idea right now.

So why not go further south? Football is becoming more and more popular in Mexico, the college team fielded by Monterrey Tech could probably play in the US Division III. Monterrey, Mexico City, and Tijuana would all be interesting places to look at for expansion...

[Shootmaster_44]

For many of the reasons listed above, I agree that expansion into the US would not be a good idea right now.

So why not go further south? Football is becoming more and more popular in Mexico, the college team fielded by Monterrey Tech could probably play in the US Division III. Monterrey, Mexico City, and Tijuana would all be interesting places to look at for expansion...

Two reasons why this would not work. First, travel to Mexico from Canada is extremely difficult during the CFL season. Since the majority of the teams fly on WestJet during the season, the only places in Mexico that WestJet services are Cancun, Mazatlan and Puerto Vallarta. None of those places are major football cities. Air Canada does serve Mexico City, but all flights are routed through Toronto, so again a very long flight for teams. So that is a major hurdle and expense to overcome heading to Mexico.

Secondly, I think Mexican football fans would be as confused (possibly moreso) as American fans are regarding Canadian rules. Since there is little exposure to the CFL in Mexico, I'd think most Mexicans have no idea a secondary code to football even exists. The other thing, would be the same problem as with the US, are the stadiums large enough to accommodate a CFL-sized field? Soccer stadiums generally have the width but not the length (a problem the Argos found out when looking into playing at BMO Field), so those likely would not work and the CFL would not allow pseudo-fields like they did in the US.

Best scenario would be for Mexico to start their own pro football league and have a interleague championship with the CFL. Though, I doubt that would happen as the proposed NFL Europe-CFL championship game never happened either.

[SignGuyDino]

Here's an idea: Let's say the UFL has a season and they at least play it out. (Yes, a big if.)

Let's say the two leagues merge. We know it's hard enough to get stadiums to play, even harder to find those that can fit for CFL rules. So we play "American" rules in the states and "Canadian" rules in Canadia. Or at least agree to accept 100 yd. football here and 110 yard football up north.

The main rule I'd change is instead of 3 downs for 10 yards, I'd make it 4 downs for 15 yards. Too many stoppages of play in CFL for my taste. This could add some drama but speed up the game.

Keep the Grey Cup up north for a few more years, but agree to alternate sites in the conferences after say 3 or 4 years. This would make it somewhat more palatable for Canadians.

I believe in "expand or die." Surely the NFL threat to come to Toronto is a threat to their very existance and they need to think creatively.

Baltimore fans showed it CAN work with the right foresight and management.

[Shootmaster_44]

Here's an idea: Let's say the UFL has a season and they at least play it out. (Yes, a big if.)

Let's say the two leagues merge. We know it's hard enough to get stadiums to play, even harder to find those that can fit for CFL rules. So we play "American" rules in the states and "Canadian" rules in Canadia. Or at least agree to accept 100 yd. football here and 110 yard football up north.

The main rule I'd change is instead of 3 downs for 10 yards, I'd make it 4 downs for 15 yards. Too many stoppages of play in CFL for my taste. This could add some drama but speed up the game.

Keep the Grey Cup up north for a few more years, but agree to alternate sites in the conferences after say 3 or 4 years. This would make it somewhat more palatable for Canadians.

I believe in "expand or die." Surely the NFL threat to come to Toronto is a threat to their very existance and they need to think creatively.

Baltimore fans showed it CAN work with the right foresight and management.

The CFL is experiencing a resurgence in Canada, I don't think the league would change the very basis of the game to work with the UFL. If the UFL wanted to work with the CFL, they would have to play Canadian rules period. Not only that but I find 4 downs to be a little boring at times, two runs for a cloud of dust does not make an exciting series.

The NFL threat was proven to be overhyped. The Bills did not sell out Rogers Centre, in fact the media was reporting that lots (15,000 IIRC) of free tickets were given away to make the stadium look full. I think you will see these Bills games lower attended each time around.

[Berkshirian]

The Bills didn't sell in Toronto, because, well, it was the Bills.

Put a Patriots-Cowboys game there, double the ticket price, and watch it sell out in a flash.

[BCRantzilla]

Toronto did get a Bills/Dolphins game. The Phins have always had a solid fanbase in most centers whether they sucked or not. (Same with the Oakland Raiders.)

The NFL in Toronto is quickly becoming our answer to Euro Disney. Lots of hype but in the end we found out that the American game was far more boring in person than it is on tv. That and I don't think Toronto is as much of a football town as Edmonton or Montreal. (Quebec in general has been seeing a football explosion across the board for over 10 years now and they are predicting that in 20-30 years they will be producing as many NFL draft picks as any state in the Union because of the extreme participation level and the sudden improvements in infrastructure and coaching.)

If the CFL is going to expand again they need to stay away from Ottawa and put teams in the following cities if they can get it done:

Quebec City: ONLY a stadium is keeping them out now. The fanbase is there and they have been BEGGING for CFL football for almost a decade now. If they don't have a team in 5 years there is something seriously wrong with the league.

Portland: They were always discussed as a CFL site during the Leisure Suit Larry era but aside from a couple of exhibition games they never got a team. The fanbase is apparently there and people with money have tried to get in a few times. I say give them a chance. They couldn't be worse than the Memphis Mad Dogs or Shreveport Pirates were.

Baltimore: The old Stalions' fanbase is STILL there, in fact a contingent of a few thousand come to the Grey Cup every year. Even with a good Ravens team in town they would probably still draw around 22-26,000 per game for a CFL team. B-More was good to us but Smith wasn't good to them. That needs to be rectified.

[Pounder]

That spurs some questions.

Is Eugene Melnyk really honest about his MLS bid, or is he trying to undermine the Ottawa CFL effort with his stadium proposal? I can't see MLS being serious about Ottawa except to fill numbers for the expansion game.

Does anyone in Quebec have the scratch and the will to build a stadium? Is any public help forthcoming there? Anywhere in Canada?

Knowing more of what's going on in Portland... CFL ain't happening. It won't happen without renovation, renovation won't happen without Major League Soccer, and that will preclude the proper Canadian field dimensions.

[BCRantzilla]

That spurs some questions.

Is Eugene Melnyk really honest about his MLS bid, or is he trying to undermine the Ottawa CFL effort with his stadium proposal? I can't see MLS being serious about Ottawa except to fill numbers for the expansion game.

Does anyone in Quebec have the scratch and the will to build a stadium? Is any public help forthcoming there? Anywhere in Canada?

Knowing more of what's going on in Portland... CFL ain't happening. It won't happen without renovation, renovation won't happen without Major League Soccer, and that will preclude the proper Canadian field dimensions.

Ottawa is a political clusterf##k right now since NOBODY is on the same page in regards to replacing a now condemned Frank Clair Stadium. I'm willing to guarantee that Toronto FC will NEVER allow an MLS team to come to southern Ontario nor do I believe MLS will even consider Ottawa at this time or any other. (Winnipeg will get an MLS team before Ottawa which is yet to prove they have a fanbase for big time soccer.) Again, I think EVERYONE needs to avoid Ottawa like a disease until they get their house in order which isn't happening anytime soon.

Quebec's university teams draw insane numbers right now in a substandard stadium. (The main school has drawn over 20,000 regularly for a stadium that doesn't seat 12,000.) There is a major push to land the Commonwealth Games and there is some public money to be spent that was allocated for the failed Winter Olympic bid in 2002. Marcel Aubut, (founder and sole owner in Quebec Nordiques history,) wants a team and even Patrick Roy, now owner of the Quebec Remparts of the QMJHL has expressed interest in partial ownership for a CFL team. The CFL has shown mild interest in this market over the years but in recent years the Alouettes have stressed the need for a Quebec rivalry to help their fanbase, (which is strong but stagnant,) which has had the league looking a bit more closely. The problem is a LOT of old schoolers still cling to the pipe dream that Halifax will one day be viable. (NEVER gonna happen.)

Thanks for the info about Portland. I hope the do get a stadium built because from what I've heard, the CFL game has always had a following there.

[jwalters]

I have always supported US expansion but that is not why I am posting. I just wanted to clear up some things about the stadiums.

Shreveport, LA- Regulation CFL size but definately shoe-horned into place. Try to imagine arena football dimensions and you get the idea. In the early 2000's a renovation took place that eliminated the retractable bleachers. This stadium can not fit a CFL field any longer.

Sacramento, CA- Hornet stadium has a long history of track and field. There was a track but the field was basically CFL sized, There were clipped endzones like in Edmonton. Due to a track and field renovation Hornet Field can not host CFL football and Hughes stadium in Sacramento never could.

Baltimore, MD- Memorial stadium was regulation width, 110yds long with 15 to 17.5 yd endzones. The length limitations didn't effect the Stallions. Stadium Gone.

San Antonio, TX- Thanks to the for sight of the AlamoDome builders the stadium included retractable seating in the endzones and was completely regulation size. I don't know if the seating is still like this.

Las Vegas, NV- 63 yds. wide and really shoe-horned th get that. 15 yd endzones. Now the field is even shorter thanks to renovations.

Memphis, TN- I'm from Nashville and I loved the Mad Dogs. My family even planned a trip to see a game in what would have been 1996. By far the worst field in the league. Width wise there was about 55yds. of grass and 5yds. on each side of astro-turf. This two surface set-up did cause injuries but nothing severe that I am aware of. Length wise yu could get 110yds. but the endzone was horrible. The astro-turf part was only 5yds deep, then it cut at an angle up to 10 yds. where it cut again to 15yds. It was hard on teams to score touchdowns and the stadium led the league in Field Goals mde and attempted. The league agreed to allow memphis to use a 100 yd. field but they would have been the only ones. Liberty Bowl is now completely field-turfed but the length problem still remains.

Miami, FL- Would have been home to Manatees. Exhibition game played there before the field was ready. Only 13 yd. endzones. Stadium gone.

Birmingham, AL- I think was probably the best U.S. stadium. Regulation sized field was possible at the time but I don't know about now.

As far a I know the only stadiums in the U.S. where you can play CFL regulation football are the following:

Norfolk, VA- Old Dominion's Football/field hockey stadium. Seats about 25,000 may need some renovation but that would be very minor. Remember Shreveport was going to play here in 1996.

Santa Barbara, CA- Harder Stadium would need seating as it only seats 17,000 but it would easily hold a CFL field.

Boston, MA- Harvard stadium's dimensions are the reasn why the forward pass developed so quickly in the U.S.. Canada didn't have forward passing until 1915 but in 1906 Harvard voted to keep the U.S. field 160 ft. because they didn't think a wider field was safe in their concrete stadium. So they voted to institute the forward pass to make the game safer. Regardless of what they thought in 1906 Harvard stadium can safely fit a CFL field.

Chapaigne, IL- Alumni field will easily fit a CFL field if the temporary endzone seating is removed.

Portland, OR- PGE park with portable seats retracted has more surface area than any field in the country. Good to go.

Honolulu, HI- CFL field will squeeze into Aloha Stadium. I think the endzones would be clipped.

The following are stadiums that will hold CFL fields if minor renovations are made:

Baton Rouge, LA- BREC stadium holds 21,000 and only needs to remove a chain link fence to be regulation size.

Jackson, MS- Memorial Stadium is great old facility with a large field. As of right now you could easily fit a Las Vegas sized field in there. I understand that because of lack of use for the large facility Jackson officials go pretty far to make tenants happy. I think they would gladly remove some endzone seating to host pro football.

Louisville, KY- Cardinal stadium is more than wide enough and is 430ft in length. you could easily play with 15yd endzones. I really think that this place will soon meet the recking ball.

Iffy:

Tallahassee, FL- Doak Cambell is close to size but very large.

Savannah, GA- Memorial Stadium may sit on too small a plot of land.

New Haven, CT- Yale Bowl would need quite a bit of seating removed.

Providence, RI- Brown Stadium would need to reclaim some territory from the track team. Big Bucks!

San Francisco, CA- Should the 49rs move Monster park can easily house a CFL team but it is a large facility.

Basically all the other stadiums in the U.S. are pretty much stuck how they are. Soccer stadiums won't do it, regular football stadiums are sometimes way to narrow, and track stadium wuld be very expensive to renovate. I do hope the CFL expands down and I really think they can keep the name and still be viable. Let's remember that the Major-Junior Canadian Hockey League has out post's in Seattle, Everett, Spokane, Kennewick, Portland, Erie, Plymouth, and Lewiston. Basically all these teams are doing well financially and are very well recieved by there communities despite being part of a historically Canadian circuit.

[Shootmaster_44]

I have always supported US expansion but that is not why I am posting. I just wanted to clear up some things about the stadiums.

Shreveport, LA- Regulation CFL size but definately shoe-horned into place. Try to imagine arena football dimensions and you get the idea. In the early 2000's a renovation took place that eliminated the retractable bleachers. This stadium can not fit a CFL field any longer.

Sacramento, CA- Hornet stadium has a long history of track and field. There was a track but the field was basically CFL sized, There were clipped endzones like in Edmonton. Due to a track and field renovation Hornet Field can not host CFL football and Hughes stadium in Sacramento never could.

Baltimore, MD- Memorial stadium was regulation width, 110yds long with 15 to 17.5 yd endzones. The length limitations didn't effect the Stallions. Stadium Gone.

San Antonio, TX- Thanks to the for sight of the AlamoDome builders the stadium included retractable seating in the endzones and was completely regulation size. I don't know if the seating is still like this.

Las Vegas, NV- 63 yds. wide and really shoe-horned th get that. 15 yd endzones. Now the field is even shorter thanks to renovations.

Memphis, TN- I'm from Nashville and I loved the Mad Dogs. My family even planned a trip to see a game in what would have been 1996. By far the worst field in the league. Width wise there was about 55yds. of grass and 5yds. on each side of astro-turf. This two surface set-up did cause injuries but nothing severe that I am aware of. Length wise yu could get 110yds. but the endzone was horrible. The astro-turf part was only 5yds deep, then it cut at an angle up to 10 yds. where it cut again to 15yds. It was hard on teams to score touchdowns and the stadium led the league in Field Goals mde and attempted. The league agreed to allow memphis to use a 100 yd. field but they would have been the only ones. Liberty Bowl is now completely field-turfed but the length problem still remains.

Miami, FL- Would have been home to Manatees. Exhibition game played there before the field was ready. Only 13 yd. endzones. Stadium gone.

Birmingham, AL- I think was probably the best U.S. stadium. Regulation sized field was possible at the time but I don't know about now.

As far a I know the only stadiums in the U.S. where you can play CFL regulation football are the following:

Norfolk, VA- Old Dominion's Football/field hockey stadium. Seats about 25,000 may need some renovation but that would be very minor. Remember Shreveport was going to play here in 1996.

Santa Barbara, CA- Harder Stadium would need seating as it only seats 17,000 but it would easily hold a CFL field.

Boston, MA- Harvard stadium's dimensions are the reasn why the forward pass developed so quickly in the U.S.. Canada didn't have forward passing until 1915 but in 1906 Harvard voted to keep the U.S. field 160 ft. because they didn't think a wider field was safe in their concrete stadium. So they voted to institute the forward pass to make the game safer. Regardless of what they thought in 1906 Harvard stadium can safely fit a CFL field.

Chapaigne, IL- Alumni field will easily fit a CFL field if the temporary endzone seating is removed.

Portland, OR- PGE park with portable seats retracted has more surface area than any field in the country. Good to go.

Honolulu, HI- CFL field will squeeze into Aloha Stadium. I think the endzones would be clipped.

The following are stadiums that will hold CFL fields if minor renovations are made:

Baton Rouge, LA- BREC stadium holds 21,000 and only needs to remove a chain link fence to be regulation size.

Jackson, MS- Memorial Stadium is great old facility with a large field. As of right now you could easily fit a Las Vegas sized field in there. I understand that because of lack of use for the large facility Jackson officials go pretty far to make tenants happy. I think they would gladly remove some endzone seating to host pro football.

Louisville, KY- Cardinal stadium is more than wide enough and is 430ft in length. you could easily play with 15yd endzones. I really think that this place will soon meet the recking ball.

Iffy:

Tallahassee, FL- Doak Cambell is close to size but very large.

Savannah, GA- Memorial Stadium may sit on too small a plot of land.

New Haven, CT- Yale Bowl would need quite a bit of seating removed.

Providence, RI- Brown Stadium would need to reclaim some territory from the track team. Big Bucks!

San Francisco, CA- Should the 49rs move Monster park can easily house a CFL team but it is a large facility.

Basically all the other stadiums in the U.S. are pretty much stuck how they are. Soccer stadiums won't do it, regular football stadiums are sometimes way to narrow, and track stadium wuld be very expensive to renovate. I do hope the CFL expands down and I really think they can keep the name and still be viable. Let's remember that the Major-Junior Canadian Hockey League has out post's in Seattle, Everett, Spokane, Kennewick, Portland, Erie, Plymouth, and Lewiston. Basically all these teams are doing well financially and are very well recieved by there communities despite being part of a historically Canadian circuit.

Ok I suppose I was wrong, but it was something that was oft-repeated by CFL officials shortly after the experiment went belly up.

As for the stadiums you mentioned, its all nice in theory but aside from Portland (which I believe PGE Park had already been debunked as able to fit a CFL field) the rest are too far south for the CFL to consider.

However, it seems Oronde Gadsden former Miami Dolphin player is attempting to bring a team to either Detroit or Rochester. Though he seems a little off thinking the team could be ready for 2009.

http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090204.wsptcfl4/GSStory/GlobeSportsFootball/home

[Berkshirian]

Before anybody tells me I'm wrong, I realize it would never actually happen, it's just fun to talk about, so....

I love the Harvard Stadium idea! One of the best "unknown" arenas in any sport, anywhere!

Boston would totally support a CFL team. Best sports town in America!!!!

And smack a team in Brown Stadium!
Providence, RI is the largest tv market in the US without any major league sports team of it's own. It is MAD about Boston sports teams, so one wouldn't necessarily work there, BUT CFL WOULD BE PERFECT! They could keep rooting for their Boston teams with no conflict of interest! They would be natural rivals to the CFL team in Boston (Harvard Stadium) and would be really really supportive of their OWN Rhode Island team.

Yeah, baby. Fun to think about................:D

[cusefan21]

Not a chance the CFL would go south again only way anything like that would happen is if another league say the UFL gets up and running without backlash from the NFL, makes great money, and grows to say 10 to 12 teams. Then an ideal situation would be a merger of both leagues playing on US laid out fields but incorporating many CFL rules, one i like is having the goal posts on the goal line

[Minor League Man]

IF the CFL ever comes back to the USA...it HAS TO be in the northern markets which aren't too far from Canada, such as Portland, Boise, Billings, Fargo, a few Michigan cities, maybe Toledo, Rochester, and New England.

[cusefan21]

minor league man, you are so right they will only tap large norther city markets if they did expand but seems the CFL Commish wants to expand only in Ottawa and the Maritime, Alaska might be a good place for them to tap a market to play though

[panchess]

Alaska is way too far from the other Canadian markets to be viable. I doubt they have a suitable stadium either.

The largest media market in the country without a major league team is Hartford, CT. If they could use UConn's stadium, it would be a great place for a CFL team.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

The one place I could see that makes sense for the CFL in the USA is my city of Buffalo, New York if the Buffalo Bills and the NFL pull out of Buffalo. We would fit in the CFL foot print geography wise. Plus Buffalo is a boarder city that supports NHL and NLL already. Plus canadien companies do business in Buffalo already so it would be a natural fit if the Buffalo Bills ever left the Buffalo market.

But that would be up to the CFL and of course Buffalo. Because I would imagine if the Buffalo Bills left that Buffalo we would have choices of UFL and Arena Football also to pick one new team from. Let's Go Buffalo

[wellington]

I think it is a long shot for the CFL to enter the US market again. Like others have said, the only chance I see it happening is with a couple of the border markets... Buffalo if/when the Bills leave... Detroit (they need a pro football team). Beyond that I just don't see it happening. The big reason is that there are still several great untapped markets in Canada:

1. Maritimes: Moncton or Halifax.
2. Ottawa (if they can build a new stadium)
3. Quebec City
4. Victoria

[firewolff]

I would be first in line for season tickets to a CFL team in Portland. I went to the exhibition game in 1992 (I think it was) and had a great time and the stadium was pretty full.

I've been to a number of B.C. Lions games and a Grey Cup in Vancouver and I love the league.

[Pounder]

So where would a Portland CFL team (or which suburb, if you want a slight chance of public funding) build a new stadium?

That's my way of saying that PGE Park will just barely wedge in Portland State's football field.

[FootbalFan]

The CFL return in the USA is a very long shot.

The league is now consolidating it's position in Canada and is focusing on adding a team in Ottawa, On. In Nova Scotia, Halifax's Mayor is planning to build a stadium in order to host events in Atlantic Canada, a CFL team among them. This year will be the second year where a CFL game will be played in Moncton, NB, right next to Nova Scotia. Seems Halifax wants to take an edge on having a CFl team. Therefore, the league will look inside before looking outside.

The CFL football has the best per event TV attendance in sporting events in Canada (and still growing), and the Grey Cup is THE most watched TV program in Canada. TV rights will be soon renegociated and the league is looking forward to get a significative TV income increase.

In order to be back in the US, the errors made in the 90s must be avoided. One of them was the lack marketing survey for 3 downs football. So the league understood there must be a credible TV broadcast for 3 downs football in the US to create a significative fan base to succeed in building franchises in the US. When the Grey Cup was broadcasted in the NFL network, the audience was around 60 million viewers. Guess why the NFL locked the Grey Cup broadcasting the very next year...

There is a lot of competition for the CFL in the US. Mainly NCAA, but also UFL and AFL are competitors. Therefore, many interesting markets are already much filled with these competitors. So the winning strategy for a CFL comeback in the US isn't easy, and it all starts with money.

The best strategy remains in first selling the 3 downs football by a credible TV/Internet broadcasting, add revenues, then begin to create franchises in Northern US, close to Canada, including them in the actual divisions instead of creating a US division (more or less like the junior hockey model).

Very long shot for a sport that must be played on a 65 x 150 yards field.