Welcome MAHL

[BreakersFan]

Glad to finally see the MAHL on OSC. It has been on the main minor hockey forum, ITB, for quite some time now.

I am familiar with the business plan of this league and have been impressed at the progress it has made thus far, especially the affiliations with NHL.com and Pointstreak.com.

Go Vikings!

[rams80]

Given the league's ownership, I predict this board will last about as long as the WIFL board.

[nksports]

Glad to finally see the MAHL on OSC. It has been on the main minor hockey forum, ITB, for quite some time now.

I am familiar with the business plan of this league and have been impressed at the progress it has made thus far, especially the affiliations with NHL.com and Pointstreak.com.

Go Vikings!

You obviously don't know anything about the track record of the league's management. Just Google Andrew Haines. This league is doomed.

[exit322]

Time will tell if Haines has changed his ways. Since the MAHL's official boards already have some stories of team staffs quitting en masse (Valley Forge), they may not have.

[BreakersFan]

Well it is 11:00 PM and no scores yet from the first two games. I am pretty sure the Jamestown game was played - But maybe the Mon Valley game was not.

Kind of disappointing that no scores are available yet on the league website....:mad:

Edited at 11:30 : Found the game sheet on Pointstreak. Valley Forge Jamestown 7-2. No report from Mon Valley.

Pretty weak when the "Standings" page on the league website is still blank but the standings are available on Pointstreak.

Also attendance reported as "0" and the shots on goal are messed up.

[major league]

If you would have checked Poinstreak you would have seen the score for the Jamestown vs. Valley Forge game. Valley Forge won 7-2. Over 1800 fans showed up for that game. Not a bad start at all.

Wooster Won there game in the shootout 7-6. for some reason Poinstreak wasn't working at that game.

[preeths]

Unfortunately, Pointstreak was down for part of the night, but I hope any early season problems will be worked out by the time each team gets a home game under its belt.

[BreakersFan]

Unfortunately, Pointstreak was down for part of the night, but I hope any early season problems will be worked out by the time each team gets a home game under its belt.

It's all up to date on Pointstreak now. Also, on the league website forum it was stated that there were problems with the Mon Valley internet connection.

So between that and the Pointstreak problem, it was a bad deal.

But I have to take back my above criticism of the league. Sounds like two entertaining games and 1800+ in Jamestown.

[rams80]

1800 for your inaugural game is not a good thing.

[Shootmaster_44]

1800 for your inaugural game is not a good thing.

Aren't capacity at most of these arenas around 2,000 though? If that's true than 1,800 at the inaugural game of single A hockey is pretty good.

Does anyone know why Kira Hurley was suspended? Did she fall victim to the visa problem or was there some other reason? It was mainly her signing that had me following the league. I always enjoy when a woman make a men's league, even if this one isn't nearly the caliber of the ones on Erin Whitten or Manon Rheaume's resume.

[major league]

Kira is from Ontario. So I would imagine she is not playing becuase of the visa issue....

So far it's Jamestown 1 Mon Valley 0.

[tops804]

Pointstreak isn't tracking the Valley Forge/Indiana game either. It should
have started over 2 hours ago.

[major league]

I don't understand why they didn't have Pointstreak ready before the season started. Hopefully they will get things straight for next weekends game.

Mon Valley 2 Jamestown 1 end of 1st period.

[major league]

Final Scores Indiana Ice Miners 9 Valley Forge 3

Mon valley 10 Jamestown 4

[major league]

Pointstreak starting covering the game late.

SCORING SUMMARY
Period 1
Indiana - Justin Depretis (Tom Boudreau) 0:21
Indiana - Derek Porter (Justin Depretis, Tom Boudreau) 1:50
Valley Forge - Pat Serpio (unassisted) 4:03
Indiana - Joe Welgos (Brad Townsend) 5:35
Indiana - Dan Hickman (powerplay) (unassisted) 14:29
Valley Forge - Chris Holmes (Ben Westerman, Pat Serpio) 18:57

Period 2
Indiana - Justin Depretis (unassisted) 4:45
Indiana - Peter Ferraro (powerplay) (Chris Ferazzoli) 7:38
Valley Forge - Damien Swible (Alex Wasserstrom, Bill Haas) 7:51
Indiana - Justin Depretis (Tom Boudreau) 16:10

Period 3
Indiana - Chris Ferazzoli (Peter Ferraro) 12:27
Indiana - Kyle Bozoian (Tom Boudreau, Justin Depretis) 16:10


PENALTIES
Period 1
Valley Forge - Rob Boyle - (Too Many Men Bench Minor), 2 min, 1:00
Indiana - Brian Goodness - (Hooking), 2 min, 1:25
Valley Forge - Joe Pelle - (Too Many Men Bench Minor), 2 min, 13:03
Indiana - Alex Hager - (Interference), 2 min, 14:50

Period 2
Indiana - Alex Hager - (Tripping), 2 min, 0:37
Indiana - Teague Willits-Kelley - (Fighting 56(g) Major), 5 min, 5:31
Valley Forge - Joe Pelle - (Fighting 56(g) Major), 5 min, 5:31
Valley Forge - Jon Hewko - (Slashing), 2 min, 7:15

Period 3
Valley Forge - Joe Lyle - (Hooking), 2 min, 0:42
Indiana - Joe Welgos - (Fighting 56(g) Major), 5 min, 4:45
Valley Forge - Joe Pelle - (Fighting 56(g) Major), 5 min, 4:45
Indiana - Andrew Scampoli - (High Sticking), 2 min, 10:11
Valley Forge - Joe Pelle - (Cross Checking), 2 min, 19:46

[tops804]

You posted the final at 9:06 and at 10:41 pointstreak showed that the game
had 14 seconds left. Maybe something to do with the way real time data
is sent -- they obviously didn't start sending information when the game
started.

MAHL sight has the scores posted already.:)
Much better then yesterday.

I do have hopes for this league. I just hope it doesn't go on an expansion
kick. (Like Haines A.I.F.L. did). Maybe 1 more Ohio & Northwest Pennsylvania
team.

[major league]

I noticed that to. I called the rink and got the final score. Then when I went to Pointstreak to check on the Mon Valley game I noticed that they finally had the score up for the Indiana game. It wasn't up all night but when the game was over then they show the score with 14 seconds left. But really the game was over min. before. I hope that made sense.

[BreakersFan]

Aren't capacity at most of these arenas around 2,000 though? If that's true than 1,800 at the inaugural game of single A hockey is pretty good.

Does anyone know why Kira Hurley was suspended? Did she fall victim to the visa problem or was there some other reason? It was mainly her signing that had me following the league. I always enjoy when a woman make a men's league, even if this one isn't nearly the caliber of the ones on Erin Whitten or Manon Rheaume's resume.

Some of them are less than 2000. Jamestown capacity is 2000 but I think Valley Forge and Indiana are more like 1000.

And yes, Hurley was a victim of the visa issues....

[Hockey]

Valley Forge is 300. I measured it myself. Indiana and Wooster are in the 600 ranges.

[BCRantzilla]

Some of them are less than 2000. Jamestown capacity is 2000 but I think Valley Forge and Indiana are more like 1000.

And yes, Hurley was a victim of the visa issues....

Actually I am very suprised that no league has attempted to sign Cammi Granato or Hayley Wickenheiser. (Hayley in particular as she could run with many of the teams in A-Puck.)

[Shootmaster_44]

Actually I am very suprised that no league has attempted to sign Cammi Granato or Hayley Wickenheiser. (Hayley in particular as she could run with many of the teams in A-Puck.)

Hayley Wickenheiser wants no part of men's leagues apparently. After her try-out in the preseason in Sweden, she turned down a bunch of European offers to come back and play for the Calgary Oval Xtreme of the Western Women's Hockey League.

As for Cammi Granato, isn't she retired? I could have sworn that she had hung up the skates prior to the last Olympics and was on NBC's team doing commentary.

The next big female player to play in a male league in my opinion will be Shannon Szabados. She's currently the goalie for the Grant MacEwan Griffins of the Alberta Collegiate Athletic Association (akin to the NJCAA is the US). However, last season she was the top goalie in the AJHL. I have a feeling that after a couple years in the ACAA, (depending what program she is taking) she will transfer to the CIS and eventually join an IHL or ECHL team. I think with her dominance of the AJHL the last couple years, I could see her even being a regular in the AHL. At worst, she will be Canada's starting goalie for the Women's National Team for the next decade (once Sami Jo Small steps aside).

I wonder if there will ever come a day when a female player makes the NHL on her own merit and not a publicity stunt? I don't think we'll see a skater in the NHL, but a goalie is a definite possibility. All it takes is for a player like a Shannon Szabados to dominate a CJAHL league and jump to a major NCAA program and dominate there. It too bad Shannon played 1 minute of a WHL regular season game and lost her NCAA eligibility though. I think she would've been the best shot at the NHL.

I wonder how the MAHL stacks up against the WWHL? The Western league (mostly the Calgary Oval Xtreme) has most of the Women's national team talent, so I'd assume that the WWHL would be more skilled than the MAHL. The only major difference is that women's hockey allows much less contact than men's does, so some of the WWHL players wouldn't be used to the hitting. If I was an owner of a team in one of these leagues I'd try and ice an international women's all-star team. Bring in the top players from Canada, the US, Finland and the other major women's hockey countries, throw in a couple goons (to act as the Dave Semenko/Marty McSorley for the girls) from the LNAH and ice that team. It would be interesting to see how an almost entirely female team would do at this level. I'd say the guys at this level would have to be 2 or 3 notches below the skill level of the Women's Olympic teams. Have men play women's rules and I would say that Canada and the US's Women's Olympic teams would likely be about AHL level.

[BCRantzilla]

Hayley Wickenheiser wants no part of men's leagues apparently. After her try-out in the preseason in Sweden, she turned down a bunch of European offers to come back and play for the Calgary Oval Xtreme of the Western Women's Hockey League.

As for Cammi Granato, isn't she retired? I could have sworn that she had hung up the skates prior to the last Olympics and was on NBC's team doing commentary.


Hayley got burned something nasty in Europe when she was slated to make high 5 figures to around 100,000Euros in Italy but the most Catholic nation on the planet denied her the right to play there because she was a woman. (This was after her last run in Sweden.) Since then she stayed in Calgary because A. the National team is based there for the most part and B. because her commonlaw husband is coach and I believe GM there now.

That said, she also plays as a ringer in various men's leagues making about $100 per game. (If you ever saw those Mark Messier Lays commercials, you will see what I'm talking about except that she really does this.) I do believe she would give another team a shot if they actually offered her a deal that didn't smack of shameless promotional crap. (For instance, someone offered her a one year deal or a tryout contract that had a good number of road games to prove she wasn't there to spike home attendance.)

As for Cammi, her retirement always looked like Cassie Campbell's "I'm retired because Hockey Canada changed management and kicked my friends out, then they dropped me" retirement. (It is very telling that nobody from the current National team who played with Cassie will discuss her unless pushed to and when they do, they are not kind.) The difference was that Cammi was a hockey player, Cassie wasn't. At this point, you are probably right as she is pushing 40 now but I am still very suprised that over the last decade, nobody ever made an attempt to sign her in the minors.

The skill level in Canada at the elite women's level is way down from the 1990's and Sammi Joe Small is more or less out at the National Team's starting goaltender as she was woefully out of shape and just plain terrible during the World's in Winnipeg. In fact the two best players on the ice at ALL TIMES during the entire tournament besides some of the European and American goaltenders were Hayley, (duh,) and 41 year old Danielle Goyette. Even Jennifer Botterill, who had massive amounts of press during the Worlds as she was a Winnipeg girl, did not impress despite all the hype she has had as "Hayley's successor" on the National team.

The problem seems to stem from the revolving door of coaches since Shannon Miller was chased out, (most people I have asked have blamed Cassie on that one.) The team never played with any real structure out there and the only players who looked like they had a clue out there were the ones who played on the same line together for years. A serious lack of hockey sense was also very noticable out there during games. Too many younger girls who can't even recieve a pass let alone take a decent shot on goal are getting pushed through the system way too soon and it was very evident in this tournament. Hayley and Danielle were so much better than everyone that they just made it easy but God help Canada when they retire unless they get some continuity at the top.

[Pounder]

(deleted by silly me)

[Shootmaster_44]

Hayley got burned something nasty in Europe when she was slated to make high 5 figures to around 100,000Euros in Italy but the most Catholic nation on the planet denied her the right to play there because she was a woman. (This was after her last run in Sweden.) Since then she stayed in Calgary because A. the National team is based there for the most part and B. because her commonlaw husband is coach and I believe GM there now.

That said, she also plays as a ringer in various men's leagues making about $100 per game. (If you ever saw those Mark Messier Lays commercials, you will see what I'm talking about except that she really does this.) I do believe she would give another team a shot if they actually offered her a deal that didn't smack of shameless promotional crap. (For instance, someone offered her a one year deal or a tryout contract that had a good number of road games to prove she wasn't there to spike home attendance.)

As for Cammi, her retirement always looked like Cassie Campbell's "I'm retired because Hockey Canada changed management and kicked my friends out, then they dropped me" retirement. (It is very telling that nobody from the current National team who played with Cassie will discuss her unless pushed to and when they do, they are not kind.) The difference was that Cammi was a hockey player, Cassie wasn't. At this point, you are probably right as she is pushing 40 now but I am still very suprised that over the last decade, nobody ever made an attempt to sign her in the minors.

The skill level in Canada at the elite women's level is way down from the 1990's and Sammi Joe Small is more or less out at the National Team's starting goaltender as she was woefully out of shape and just plain terrible during the World's in Winnipeg. In fact the two best players on the ice at ALL TIMES during the entire tournament besides some of the European and American goaltenders were Hayley, (duh,) and 41 year old Danielle Goyette. Even Jennifer Botterill, who had massive amounts of press during the Worlds as she was a Winnipeg girl, did not impress despite all the hype she has had as "Hayley's successor" on the National team.

The problem seems to stem from the revolving door of coaches since Shannon Miller was chased out, (most people I have asked have blamed Cassie on that one.) The team never played with any real structure out there and the only players who looked like they had a clue out there were the ones who played on the same line together for years. A serious lack of hockey sense was also very noticable out there during games. Too many younger girls who can't even recieve a pass let alone take a decent shot on goal are getting pushed through the system way too soon and it was very evident in this tournament. Hayley and Danielle were so much better than everyone that they just made it easy but God help Canada when they retire unless they get some continuity at the top.

Interesting. I don't follow Women's international hockey very closely. So if Canada's play is down since the mid-90's, how does that compare to the rest of the world (other than the US)?

I had read from Euros over at the International Hockey Forum (http://forums.internationalhockey.net/) that she was offered other deals in Finland and Germany and declined them. If she had intended to stay over in Europe, seems strange to say no to those ones. Not that helping to raise the profile of the WWHL is a bad thing.

If Sami Jo Small was so terrible at the Worlds, does that speed up Shannon Szabados' ascent to the starting job?

And to bring this back around to the MAHL, what will it take for them to straighten out the visa situation so Kira Hurley can play?

[tops804]

Does pointstreak do games in real time for other leagues? I'm beginning to
wonder if they plan on doing it that way for the MAHL. The scores and stats
are there, but well after the game ends.

[Shootmaster_44]

Does pointstreak do games in real time for other leagues? I'm beginning to
wonder if they plan on doing it that way for the MAHL. The scores and stats
are there, but well after the game ends.

Typically they are close to realtime. I would say about as realtime as the NHL's stats and scores. What I mean by that is if you're listening to a game on the net/radio or watching a game on tv, they would likely be 2 to 3 minutes behind on goals or penalties.

[tops804]

:( No Jamestown vs Valley Forge updates on pointstreak tonight (3 1/4 hours
after game time). I wish they could get it more together...

It seems like this happens alot when Valley Forge hosts games. Anyone see
any attendance figures for the 5 teams?

[Shootmaster_44]

:( No Jamestown vs Valley Forge updates on pointstreak tonight (3 1/4 hours
after game time). I wish they could get it more together...

It seems like this happens alot when Valley Forge hosts games. Anyone see
any attendance figures for the 5 teams?

On the MAHL official boards (off their website), it was stated that Valley Forge won't have Pointstreak updates because their arena refuses to provide them with internet access. That plus a myriad of other problems in Valley Forge is why I have heard that they are not long for this world. I'd recommend going over to MAHLhockey.com and take a look at the VF forum. Some pretty interesting things posted by their PR guy.

I wonder if Valley Forge closes up shop, is that the end of the MAHL? Would they soldier on with only 4 teams?

There's one good thing about the MAHL though, the Reading Royals are able to get higher caliber fill-in players from Indiana. Last year, they were signing guys who were playing in a local beer league. Now because former Royal fill-in Brian Gratz is the coach with the Ice Miners, they are able to bring in players from his team to fill holes. Its almost like they are affiliated with the Royals.

[tops804]

I wonder if Valley Forge closes up shop, is that the end of the MAHL? Would they soldier on with only 4 teams?

Interesting thought...Valley Forge is the furthest travelwise of the 5 teams.
Maybe a move closer into the region of the other 4 teams? As strange as
it would be, I could see a four team league finishing the season...I know the
AISA played with 4 teams at one time -- but added more for a post season
tournament.

I see newspaper coverage for these teams, but wonder what kind of crowds
they are drawing. The way Indiana is playing (10-0 Shutout over Jamestown
tonight. 13-1 record). If they are being ignored, it may be time to give up on
the thought of a bus league in the Ohio/Pennsylvania/New York region...

[Shootmaster_44]

Interesting thought...Valley Forge is the furthest travelwise of the 5 teams.
Maybe a move closer into the region of the other 4 teams? As strange as
it would be, I could see a four team league finishing the season...I know the
AISA played with 4 teams at one time -- but added more for a post season
tournament.

I see newspaper coverage for these teams, but wonder what kind of crowds
they are drawing. The way Indiana is playing (10-0 Shutout over Jamestown
tonight. 13-1 record). If they are being ignored, it may be time to give up on
the thought of a bus league in the Ohio/Pennsylvania/New York region...

From what I've heard and granted its second, third and perhaps fourth hand is that crowds are all under 1,000 but generally between 250 and 500 people. One person involved with a team (from what I understand) has some plan that could see a team somehow turn a profit with nobody in the stands. Whether or not its realistic is something to find out.

I hope that the league does continue on as I think there is a market for this level of hockey. Perhaps its better suited for Ontario or Western Canada than Ohio/Pennsylvania, but I do hope this league makes it. The Canadian Major Indoor Soccer League is attempting to run this season with a 4 team league, so it isn't inconceivable that the MAHL would go on. But having 4 teams would mean they would need two more expansion teams next year to qualify for work visas for foreign players.

[tops804]

I hope that the league does continue on as I think there is a market for this level of hockey. Perhaps its better suited for Ontario or Western Canada than Ohio/Pennsylvania, but I do hope this league makes it.

I would think 500-1000 would be considered above average in the markets
the league is in. In Cleveland, the Junior Barons once played at a small rink
in the suburbs, and it at least seemed like more people liked that brand of hockey
compared to the IHL and AHL. Sometimes, I believe that bigger isn't always better
in these markets. The NBA and NFL, take up much more fan interest and dollars.

I never really gave Ontairo a thought as far as expansion goes...Being Mid-Atlantic,
it would make sense to put teams up there as well.

[BreakersFan]

From talking with someone pretty close to the league, it sounds like Jamestown, Wooster, and Indiana are doing okay, with Mon Valley a little behind and Valley Forge a disaster. West Orange, NJ joins next season as well as another unidentified team.

The team budgets are about $300,000, so if they get $10/head per person in ticket and concessions, the break even is 30,000 fans or 1200 per 25 home games.

The MAHL just had three more ECHL call-ups in the last three days. I think that makes a dozen or so already this season. If they can get a few larger cities/facilities in the league to go with Jamestown and Wooster, I think they might be a pretty viable league next season.

[Hockey]

Only Jamestown and Mon Valley seat more then 1,000. No team is averaging more then 600.

Funny note, there is a handful of players who have to play with no shoulder pads because the jerseys are not big enough.

They have exhausted their initial purchase from Sande for sticks and the players are responsible for their own gear now.

[tops804]

Thought this was a misprint

Goals 1 2 3 TOTAL
Mon Valley 1 1 1 3
Jamestown 1 3 2 6
Shots 1 2 3 TOTAL
Mon Valley 3 7 6 16
Jamestown 20 20 18 58

As much as I want the Vikings to win it all this season...It's obvious that
these scorekeepers are on the home teams side...I've seen these kind of
numbers in the MAHL before.

Pointstreak always shows "Default scorekeeper" I wonder if these guys are paid?
Team or league appointed?

Updated shots: MV - 16 JMS - 62...

[Shootmaster_44]

Thought this was a misprint

Goals 1 2 3 TOTAL
Mon Valley 1 1 1 3
Jamestown 1 3 2 6
Shots 1 2 3 TOTAL
Mon Valley 3 7 6 16
Jamestown 20 20 18 58

As much as I want the Vikings to win it all this season...It's obvious that
these scorekeepers are on the home teams side...I've seen these kind of
numbers in the MAHL before.

Pointstreak always shows "Default scorekeeper" I wonder if these guys are paid?
Team or league appointed?

Updated shots: MV - 16 JMS - 62...

I would hazard a guess that the scorekeepers are not paid. I really think most of these teams are very small operations with a very small paid staff. I would assume that the scorekeeper for this game is someone who does high level amateur (Midget or Junior B or something like that) and volunteered to do these games, perhaps with some merchandise thrown his way by the team.