ARENA FOOTBALL HAS SOLD OUT THE FANS!

[jwalters]

I am writing this because Arena football has announced that it will now play the Arenabowl in a neutral site. It was one thing to allow Iowa and Albany to move cities. It was also another thing when the league jumped from ESPN and up to 4 games televised weekly to TNN and maybe 2 televised but now the league is only allowing fans one game a week on average. We should also think about the league changing the logo and adopting that stupid ball. But those all fall short of this stab in the back. Arenaball has survived because of the fans and should be made available to them. If you are a fan and your team makes it to the arenabowl you should get to see them. We can't all go trudging off to Las Vegas to see the game.
During the first Arenabowl broadcast Jim Foster the games founder said that the USFL and other minor leagues have failed because they got greedy and now David Baker is getting greedy and ruining the league.
This game should not be about making a billion dollars. David Baker is turning the sport into something similar to pro wrestling. This league should be about the fans. When I was 13 years old about a dozen of the Nashville Kats walked into the restaurant where I was having lunch. It to this day is still the single greatest thing that has ever happened to me. I got to sit and talk to Andy Kelly, Pat Sperduto, Jeff Russell, Bob Kronenburg, all of them. Arena football is about moments like that not selling out the fans so you can increase profits and gain acceptance from the NFL. I just had to get that off my chest.

[kennel krazie]

THE neutral site thing is a bad bad idea! I am a big NIFL fan and I know the arena's would not be as pack if S. Falls and Lexington would have played in Enid Oklahoma this year. You play to win the game and winning the game should reward you with something and that something should be home field advantage.

As for the TV deal. That one game a week on NBC probably brought the AFL more financial help then a 3 or 4 game deal on a smaller network or at midnight on ESPN. Just a thought and I could be entirely wrong!

[Houston Caldwell]

I have to believe that the Arena Bowl neutral site idea is patterned after the NFL Super Bowl. This might, at some time in the future, be a good idea if AFL football continues to develop to a level of popularity close to what the NFL enjoys (where many people will spend insane amounts of money to travel for a championship event).
However, as well as the AFL is developing, it is still eons away from that popularity level. With that in mind, this change, at this point in time, is a bad idea.

[MrBIGGS32]

First and foremost the AFL is a business. They try and do the right thing for the fans, like cheap seats, keeping footballs, having players sign autographs after the games. But you forget it is a business.
So to you fans, how can you say the AFL sold out. The AFL has come along ways from being called a minor league to have almost every NFL owner wanting a piece of the action. This is big Business from sponsers to league owners.
The Neutral site for the AFL is great, more sponsers and more hype leading up to the big game. This is why you have home teams when they are at home you go watch. When they are away the home tv networks televise the games. This is good for Business and TV networks. True fans will travel to go and see there team play. Lew from Denver is the true fan of the AFL and he is a vast of knowledge about the game. For the NIFL it does not compare to the AFL. It will be gone in a FEW YEARS. For the AFL it is here to stay and it will become bigger and bigger.

[jwalters]

A sellout occurs when you already have enough of something and you bend to someones wishes to get more. The AFL has sold out. The AFL aligning with the NFL has nothing to do with survival and everything to do with money. It is a business but if the AFL starts to try and charge people like they are the NFL there will be no business left. As for lewindenver being a true fan. I don't care. I never mentioned him or anybody else except for Baker and some of the old Nashville Kats. I'm glad that Lew has the money to go to all of Denver's games but some of us don't and that does not make us any less of a fan than him. About tickets, I have new respect for Bud Adams. The Kats are going to have $5 dollar tickets this season. The 'old' Kats cheapest tickets were $12. So there are a few people not ripping off the fans. Also, the NIFL may fail but somebody will step in its place. The NIFL will survive so long as it realizes that it can not get greedy. Staten Island got greedy this year and the public responded accordingly. Of course, their problem probably had more to do with the size of their 'rink'(1200-1600 capacity). I support all indoor/arena football and I hate to see it try to become something it's not. I figured I should start the campaign now. BRING BACK JIM FOSTER.

[Pounder]

What is "enough?"

Where's the money made with this league? Gracious, Orlando has been in a precarious financial condition (or, at least, it's stock has been at junk-bond prices for some time now). I doubt owners are making money hand over fist here. That is MOSTLY because teams are renters in the arenas they play in, with little to no say about dates (at least they're fortunate they can get some weekend dates). Second and third tenants usually pay shockingly more rent than primary tenants.

There are still only a handful of teams that can draw a consistent or rising attendance, there are candidates for relocation, there are supposed expansion franchises still waiting to happen. Doesn't mean the AFL is about to fold, but there is definitely work to do.

[kennel krazie]

"the true fan will travel."

NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa, the rich true fan will travel. The working class man that has one thing he can spring for, such as season tickets to his AFL team that has the #1 seed, he will sit at home and wonder why once again he bought tickets and didnt get to see his team play in the championship.

Neutral site is garbage in smaller leagues like this! the afl and af2 are not the NFL.

[Rocky]

For the NIFL it does not compare to the AFL. It will be gone in a FEW YEARS.

First the NIFL was never going to see the playing field, then it would be one and done, then fold after 2, then 3...now it's a "few years".

lol.

[MrBIGGS32]

Rocky are you tring to quote me, because I have never said much about the NIFL. Unless someone is tring to compare it the AFL. This the first time I have ever said how long the NIFL will last. It is a terrible league at best and needs alot of changes. The AFL is getting bigger and bigger every year. For anyone to compare the two is absoult craziness. I am sorry if you don't like me saying anything about the NIFL but you know and I know there days are limited.

Kennel Krazie, to say fans don't travel to away games, unless you have money is ludercris. Take the NCAA, Nebraska fans will travel any where to see them play. Take the NFL, Pittsburg fans which is a blue collar city travel to go see there team play any where. The AFL, have you ever been too an Arizona Rattlers football game now there fans will travel any where to see them play. So don't make up an excuse that you have to be rich to travel to see your team play. Its called a budget and thats what real sports fans do.

[Rocky]

I wasn't trying to quote you, I was quoting you.

I don't follow your posts closely enough to know if you predicted the demise of the NIFL in the past, but it wouldn't suprise me.

I'd never compare the AFL and the NIFL. The AFL is *the* league for indoor ball and I follow both. Being one of those AZ fans you're talking about and a former NIFL fan. I travelled for far more NIFL games than I ever would for the AFL. Regional rivalries interest me more, which is the bread and butter of the af2 and NIFL.

I was making an observation that most NIFL bashers that predicted the crash and burn of that league had to make revisions. crashed, yes. Burned, yes. Mistakes, yes. But folded up and ceased to be? Nope. Anyone that has spent time on this board since the NIFL came into being can back me on this. Don't take this as me putting words into your mouth. Take it as me seeing what happens in a few years with the NIFL. You might be right. It wouldn't suprise me in the least. But the fact remains you'd be the first.

[jwalters]

Rocky are you tring to quote me, because I have never said much about the NIFL. Unless someone is tring to compare it the AFL. This the first time I have ever said how long the NIFL will last. It is a terrible league at best and needs alot of changes. The AFL is getting bigger and bigger every year. For anyone to compare the two is absoult craziness. I am sorry if you don't like me saying anything about the NIFL but you know and I know there days are limited.

Kennel Krazie, to say fans don't travel to away games, unless you have money is ludercris. Take the NCAA, Nebraska fans will travel any where to see them play. Take the NFL, Pittsburg fans which is a blue collar city travel to go see there team play any where. The AFL, have you ever been too an Arizona Rattlers football game now there fans will travel any where to see them play. So don't make up an excuse that you have to be rich to travel to see your team play. Its called a budget and thats what real sports fans do.

I have heard some stupid things on these boards but this has got to be the worst one yet. I'm not saying MRBIGGS32 is stupid he has just said a stupid thing. Just because some people in Nebraska or Pittsburgh have the money to travel doesn't mean that everyone can. I don't care if you budget. Some people have kids, medical bills, car problems, and a whole lot of other stuff that can throw your budget out the window. I can't believe that you think that to be a true fan you have to travel to see the team. In all actuality there are people who are true fans who can't even go see there team for home games. You are not in touch with reality. I guess I can't think that the swiss alps are beautiful because I havn't planned out a budget that would provide for me to go to Switzerland. Because, as you know, real nature lovers will do those things.

[MrBIGGS32]

I guess you didn't understand the things that are coming out of my mouth. I was trying to make a point, just because I believe what a true fan is that doesn't mean that it is stupid. You have your ideal of what a true fan is that does that mean you are saying something stupid. To me Nebraska fans are the true fans of all time and I am from Nebraska and a lot of those fans put there pay checks to travel and see there team play. What I mean by that is to me the true fan doesn't really care how much it cost to go see a game whether it is at home or away they are there to support there team, lose or win. That is a true fan. Just remember when you say someone is saying something stupid you are referring to them.

[jwalters]

I specifically said you were not stupid. Lot's of people say stupid things. I have the right to think something is stupid and and I used it. You said something off the wall and I and TRUE fans called you on it. Besides you are no one to talk. You created a thred where you specifically confronted kennel krazie. Remember when you talk about something someone said you are talking about them. By the way BRING BACK JIM FOSTER. I just had to say that.

[kennel krazie]

this is simple:

nebraska fans travel because its college. I was broke in college but my buddies would still drive hundreds of miles by counting our change to see a big football game. COLLEGE IS COLLEGE AND STUDENTS LIKE TO PARTY AND MISS CLASS. THAT IS SIMPLE

steelers, travel, are you kidding me. THe pittsburgh steelers have the second biggest following of any team in the NFL (www.nfl.com). That has been the case since the 70's when the picked up the kids of the baby boomers and built a huge following.

Rattlers, ha ha. Now that is funny

I usually like to argue with those that make a valid point, so in this case, I surrender because I can't argue with a guy that likes to just make up things in his make believe world. How's the weather there anyway. Probably never rains in make believe world, just like on a golf course.

[MrBIGGS32]

Kennel Krazie thank you for making my point correct. It doesn't matter how much money you have if you like a team you will travel I don't care what level it is from High school to the Pro's. About the Rattlers fans Read how many fans saw them play in San Jose, And Tampa Bay. We will see about La La land. I ask one question to all you fans have any of you played professional football, or college football?

[jwalters]

BIGGS just because you played pro football doesn't mean you are an expert. I could go play football at Kentucky Wesleyan but that's no big deal. I don't know where you get off trying to act all high and mighty just because you have more football experience than the rest of us. You may know a little about the game from playing but I am a sports management major and I know about the business of sports. I am trying to use my knowledge and ability to make football accessible to everyone where as you would just try and drain it for everything that it was worth. But this is only typical of someone who has no respect for the game. We don't all have great athletic ability so we make the best of what we can do in sports but you take your ability and opportunity for granted. If you did play pro ball like you claim to have why don't you go do some good like coach little league or help the needy instead of always putting down other people's leagues. By the way where did you play? You have given me reason never to support that team or league again. And one more thing BRING BACK JIM FOSTER.

[Houston Caldwell]

When referring to JIM FOSTER, are you referring to the former Vanderbilt women's basketball coach now at Ohio State?

[jwalters]

When referring to JIM FOSTER, are you referring to the former Vanderbilt women's basketball coach now at Ohio State?

I hope you are joking. Jim Foster is the man who created Arena football. He was a good leader for the league because he didn't try to make it something it was not. Go Kats. I hope the Kats can get Andy Kelly back from Detroit.

[Houston Caldwell]

Yield here to superior knowledge of Arena Football history; your posts make it sound as though you're from Nashville, as I am, and I am also a Vanderbilt fan, which doesn't get much play here on a pro sports board. Vanderbilt had a very successful women's basketball coach named Jim Foster who was here for well over a decade, then abruptly left to coach the Ohio State Women two years ago.

[MrBIGGS32]

Where do you get off on saying I have no respect for the game. I asked a simple question. Did you here me brag about where I played football, no. Assuming, makes and ass out of you. I played so what it doesn't make me an expert and I never thought I was. There are people on this board that know a lot more than I do. Like lew from denver, Fran, and Rocky. Something that you are lacking. If you really new me you would know that I am tring to break into coaching, I am also in the works of opening my own sports and conditioning gym. For highschool, college, and pro athletes. So don't assume anything, now that is why the question was asked. One thing, learn to know someone before you open your mouth. I respect the game.

[kennel krazie]

You are telling people not to assume?

That is like Haliburton teaching a course in white collar crime or business ethics!

[jwalters]

First off, yes Houston I am from Nashville and I am a Vanderbilt fan. I love Nashville and hope to move back there. Next thing, BIGGS you did not answer my qustion. Perhaps you do not understand the words that are coming out of my mouth. Where did you play pro football. I know someone who has such respect for the game would not lie about such a thing. When you were trying to make the joke about assume you got that wrong also. The saying goes that when you assume you make an ass out of you and me. Ass+u+me. That's the saying. Just one more thing. BRING BACK JIM FOSTER. And I don't mean Vanderbilt's old women's basketball coach. :D

[Rocky]

The funny thing is, everybody posting in this therad wants a solid future for the AFL. I think we're getting a little caught up in the weeds. :)

[Houston Caldwell]

AMEN, ROCK, AMEN!!!! There are many positives in the AFL's growth; the NIFL and IFL are AF2 competitors, not AFL competitors. With me, it's not a question of the quality of the neutral site decision, it's whether this decision is premature. And for the record, the original Kats played in 2 ArenaBowls, both on the road, so that doesn't affect my opinion one way or another.