Fort Wayne follows Raptors into Cifl

[blanketman]

Fort wayne after being accepted into the uif has changed its mind and joined the cifl. Good move, remember i said its about the local rivalries.Bloomington, in my opinion, will soon follow.

[The Abyss]

Release please? I'm tired of these rumors you spread everywhere. It would be a better fit though as far as closer competition.

[exit322]

And a number of IHL rivalries (Kzoo, Muskegon) - I've heard nothing of this, and Fort Wayne wasn't on the list of "maybes" I got from my CIFL sources last week.

[preeths]

Link to an article in the Fort Wayne paper:
http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071020/SPORTS0602/710200307

I hadn't heard that Ellis was accepted into UIF at any point, only that he was working toward it as mentioned in the article.

[exit322]

The UIF just doesn't make sense for a team in Fort Wayne, Indiana anymore. If the CIFL is fixing its problems, this may turn out well.

[preeths]

Agreed, I'm not sure about Rock River given their lingering debts, but this looks like a potentially good move. Ellis has already established a franchise, so he won't be surprised at what he's getting into. He also seems to understand that FW could be a difficult market to win back in the short term given its recent history. Still, the potential is certainly there.

[cRUSHer]

What ?
Ft Wayne fans are going to dig watching
a team get hammered by 5 scores or more every week ?

First the Freedom get fried in favor of the FUsion,
now this.

I feel plum awful for the fans of Ft Wayne.

[Jamie]

Heh!

How many teams will the UIF have next season? 4? [/hyberbole]

Maybe they'll look to expand in Dayton next... or not.

[blanketman]

Abyss, im not spreading rumors. go to google news yourself. Then type in fort wayne cifl. You will see the reason. Good luck in your research.

[blanketman]

Also, you keep talking about competition thet is lacking in the cifl. In 2006, Rob Schreoder, was a Rochester Raider. He went on to make the all rookie team in the Afl. This year,5 Raiders are signing contracts with the Afl. Mike Mikolichik, Mo Jackson are in the process of signing with Kansas City. Three others with the Orlando and the Dragons. Furthermore, Jamil Porter has a contract offer with the aafl team. The team has 47 players trying out from 1 a schools this year alone. Is it because many of these positions come with a professional 30k job, if they are qualified;maybe.Where would you rather play, if you had a college degree in communications.In addition, the raiders have just signed an exclusive deal with a top agent in the country for afl players. This agent has a player on every Afl team. Also, Jim Kelly is a huge advocate of the raiders, check there web site out. Its about the teams not the league. i know there are great teams in the uif,but the cifl has some too.

[preeths]

Okay, but you're not understanding the argument being made. You have shown your Raiders are a quality team, but what about the rest of the CIFL? In order to have competition, you need other teams at least within striking distance. That's the argument: too many CIFL blowouts. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, only that you don't address it by defending one team.

[blanketman]

Last year, Kalamazoo,Chicago and New England were of high quality also.I am not going to disagree with you on some other teams.Unfortunately, we lost that great team in Port huron.The raiders loved to play that team. They were a true litmus test.Being the Ohio Valley Nifl Champs with a different helmet, it helped the raiders know where they would stand against other teams. This year will be interesting with a Divisional champion uif team in the fold. The raiders are hoping to open up against them in March.

[FootballFan9]

I think they will do well where ever they go. Ellis was in Tupelo last year and his team did well and was well attended. They lost here late in the season but overall he had a great year. I wish him all the best in what ever league he goes with. His team will be better run then what we have to look forward here next year.

[exit322]

That's the issue - if the CIFL can figure out how to rectify the blowout problem (and I think a couplea defensive tweaks plus overall "get better players" will do it), it will be better.

[preeths]

Unfortunately, we lost that great team in Port huron.The raiders loved to play that team. They were a true litmus test.Being the Ohio Valley Nifl Champs with a different helmet, it helped the raiders know where they would stand against other teams.

No matter how many times you repeat it, it doesn't make it true. The teams shared a handful of players, that's it. Yes, that includes a couple of stars, but it doesn't come close to making them the same team.

[exit322]

Four players played on both rosters.

And the Pirates got a lot better in 2007 when one of those four (Askew) left.

[Geoff]

Even if they were the same team, the schemes are different enough between 8-man and 7-man that you couldn't guarantee that a good 8-man team would be a successful 7-man team.

Blanketman, I'd say you keep looking progressively more ignorant but you look to be way past ignorant and probably somewhere on the verge of stupidity or Jim Terry. It wouldn't surprise me if you were JT

[preeths]

I don't believe blanketman is stupid or ignorant. I think he's pumping up a product.

[exit322]

He's not Jim Terry. He hasn't exploded when people question him.

I would say that a top UIF team would be able to easily change over to the 7-man style. A top AIFA/IFL team - it'd be tougher as teams run the ball quite a bit more in the CIFL. But that could also be done.

It may be tougher for CIFL teams to go to the eight-man (especially the AIFA/IFL style) for the rules changes.

[EIEIO]

He's not Jim Terry. He hasn't exploded when people question him.

Plus, he knows how to write and spell in English.

[hawkeye]

Personally I don't think the UIF and Ft. Wayne are the right fit right now. Most of it comes down to money. Some of it would come down to being able to fulfill certain expectations right off the get go.

If I understand it right the CIFL doesn't require LOCs. That would scare me as a potential owner. I want to make sure my fellow teams would be there to play when scheduled and if they couldn't be that my team would be reimbursed.

The bad PR directed at the UIF is mostly by fans in the know...the same holds true for the CIFL and any other league. Where the two differ is the UIF has played out their schedule (albeit one game...Dayton...we all know what happened there) and the team you see on the field is the team on the ticket. Other leagues have had fill in teams (the IFL to my knowledge is the only other league that has fulfilled every scheduled game). Some may not view that as a big deal but as a fan of a team that plays in another league and seeing what it does to fans...it's a HUGE deal. When new fans see your team play a non entertaining game against a group of player who have mismatched unis and not a lot of skill it downgrades your product. The Springfield fiasco of last season will hurt teams that had to play scrub teams in it's place. It's a reality.

I'd ask the new ownership group why they chose one over the other. Bloomington isn't going anywhere unless the overall league level is better somewhere else.

[cRUSHer]

Bloomington isn't going anywhere unless the overall
league level is better somewhere else.

Right.

Bloomington stays put.

[exit322]

If the CIFL has a great season this year, then Bloomington's whereabouts go into serious question. Though I've said on here "I think they're finally committed to doing things right," the CIFL still has to execute.

[hawkeye]

They would have to have an outstanding season in my opinion. And I'm not saying they can't. But some fundementals would have to change seriously. If they are 100% committed to doing it right I hope they follow through. There isn't a league doing it totally right though...some are a lot closer than others.

[rams80]

I've heard af2 for Bloomington (in 2009), but not CIFL.

[arena_guru]

2009 af2 is a go, it wouldve been this yr if they hadnt committed early to the uif, they tried their best to find a way out without it costing a ton but couldnt, now they will just spend a ton traveling out west every week

[Bruiser]

...When new fans see your team play a non entertaining game against a group of player who have mismatched unis and not a lot of skill it downgrades your product. The Springfield fiasco of last season will hurt teams that had to play scrub teams in it's place. It's a reality.
Really? I was very disappointed when the Nashville Kats came into
town last season and the Rush proceeded to bend over, grab their
ankles and let the Kats have their way with them. That sure was
"non-entertaining." And my Bears, well, I'd rather they COULD
schedule some scrub teams for them to play. And the team that
replaced Springfield @ the Slaughter last season had cool uni's...
and they all matched! Point is, you're not guaranteed a team will
play like they are supposed to in any league. I've seen plenty of
stinkers in the NFL and very exciting games at the local high school.
You make a mountain out of a mole hill, sir.

[Bruiser]

...now they will just spend a ton traveling out west every week
Will they spend the money? If the UIF is just a stop gap,
then if I were Bloomington, I'd lobby really hard to play River
City eight times in 2008.

Speaking of the Rage, what's to become of them? Amidst all
the UIF turmoil, it's awfully quiet down in St. Looie, dontcha
think?

[blanketman]

I am not ignorant about the Cifl nor the Uif for that matter.I cant stand Jim Terry so obviously ,Im not him.The leagues all work from the same talent pool. You cant tell me Bloomington will have better talent than some other team in the cifl. Chances are its about recruiting; period. Furthermore, the leagues and owners themselves will decide their own fate. That being said,the cifl has had a strong offseason many quality changes have been made to ensure a better year some include:all teams will participate in a 10,000 emergency fund,a combined 140,000 will be set aside; games will start in march and end in July;more ownership meetings throughout the season.The Uif will be fine too.

[jjbballfan]

The UIF may be expensive and I believe that is what is holding it back from being a 20+ team league right away but in 10 years it could very well be a 20+ team league and only the best will be there... my point being if owners are too cheap to play in the UIF they must not be a quality business.... the UIF has played every game you know that unless a tornado has gone through the arena when you travel to there you are going to play a game and when you go to your home arena they are going to show up.... short term the UIF is not a great league it is hard to make money the first couple of years but become a well established franchise and well known in the city you can make money because the community knows that the game is going to go on and it is going to be against the team that is listed on the ticket or on there web-site.... I would like the UIF to move west like I already said..... come up with a south and north rather then west and east it was hard to make travel sense when you travel across Iowa without having a team anywhere in Iowa except Sioux City which is pretty much SD/NE.....

You could go with a lot of teams....
San Antonio, OKC, Colorado Springs, Broomfield, Caspser, Reno, San Diego, Tri-City(NE), Rapid City, Salt Lake City, Yakima...........

[Bruiser]

The UIF may be expensive and I believe that is what is holding it back from being a 20+ team league right away but in 10 years it could very well be a 20+ team league and only the best will be there... my point being if owners are too cheap to play in the UIF they must not be a quality business.... the UIF has played every game you know that unless a tornado has gone through the arena when you travel to there you are going to play a game and when you go to your home arena they are going to show up.... short term the UIF is not a great league it is hard to make money the first couple of years but become a well established franchise and well known in the city you can make money because the community knows that the game is going to go on and it is going to be against the team that is listed on the ticket or on there web-site.

That's a nice fantasy. In reality though, besides you
and a handful of others, the remaining 2,995 attendees
at an indoor football game dont care about anything
except that the home team wins and the beer is cold.

[hawkeye]

I took 40 friends to a game in another league in which the team on the field was not the team on the ticket. I didn't say a word because I was hoping at least a couple of these people would come back for another game. Someone looked at their ticket and said, "that's not the *team name*". The fill in team got dog stomped and none of those people in my group ever came back. A few left at halftime.

It's something different that draws people into these games. Some of it is the show, some of it is the food, some of it is the beer being cold. But it's not as simple at that Bruiser. If it was then teams that had cold beer (the Lincoln Capitols had the coldest beer...and the best beer) and teams that won ball games (plenty of winning teams no longer with us) would still be with us.

My wife used to love going to Beef games because of the homemade nacho stand. No more stand...no more wife at Beef games. My nephew used to love the pyrotechiques (sp?)...no more fireworks...no more nephew. And when teams start playing scrub fill in teams...that will drive people away as well.

[rams80]

I am not ignorant about the Cifl nor the Uif for that matter.I cant stand Jim Terry so obviously ,Im not him.The leagues all work from the same talent pool. You cant tell me Bloomington will have better talent than some other team in the cifl. Chances are its about recruiting; period. Furthermore, the leagues and owners themselves will decide their own fate. That being said,the cifl has had a strong offseason many quality changes have been made to ensure a better year some include:all teams will participate in a 10,000 emergency fund,a combined 140,000 will be set aside; games will start in march and end in July;more ownership meetings throughout the season.The Uif will be fine too.

That's a change in tack from you.

[rams80]

You could go with a lot of teams....

San Antonio...No. That's Intense League/af2 turf.
OKC...No. They have an af2 team already
Colorado Springs...Perhaps, this could work.
Broomfield...If the Ice allow it.
Casper...Possibly, but ownership conflicts remain.
Reno...No. af2 turf
San Diego...Good Lord, No....
Tri-City(NE)...Maybe, assuming the arena still talks to indoor football leagues,
Rapid City...Could work
Salt Lake City...Good Lord, No...they have an AFL team
Yakima...No. af2 turf/derelict town.

[hawkeye]

Really? I was very disappointed when the Nashville Kats came into
town last season and the Rush proceeded to bend over, grab their
ankles and let the Kats have their way with them. That sure was
"non-entertaining." And my Bears, well, I'd rather they COULD
schedule some scrub teams for them to play. And the team that
replaced Springfield @ the Slaughter last season had cool uni's...
and they all matched! Point is, you're not guaranteed a team will
play like they are supposed to in any league. I've seen plenty of
stinkers in the NFL and very exciting games at the local high school.
You make a mountain out of a mole hill, sir.

Once again you are over simplfying it. By your standards anyone with a garage full of equipment, league dues, and an arena contract should be owning an indoor football team it seems. Sounds easy enough. Heck cold beer and a winning team. I could put that much together. So that will get me "football fans" and "beer drinking football fans". If those are the only fans I needed to make money I'd be doing this. Most of "those" fans don't give the indoor game a second thought. It's not NFL and it's not NCAA and it's not AFL.

I'm not trying to say your wrong...I'm just trying to say if it was that simple then more teams would be a success.

[jjbballfan]

Once again you are over simplfying it. By your standards anyone with a garage full of equipment, league dues, and an arena contract should be owning an indoor football team it seems. Sounds easy enough. Heck cold beer and a winning team. I could put that much together. So that will get me "football fans" and "beer drinking football fans". If those are the only fans I needed to make money I'd be doing this. Most of "those" fans don't give the indoor game a second thought. It's not NFL and it's not NCAA and it's not AFL.

I'm not trying to say your wrong...I'm just trying to say if it was that simple then more teams would be a success.

The thing that works with Indoor football atl east in the midwest is that it gives a chance to see local college players play in a fun game.... the tin about all minor league sports is getting you there, generally that means a good quality team- UIF has that, the fact that there is going to be an actual game against the team and if something happens it is announced well before time... UIF has, Then it has to have something that makes it interesting if that is good looking cheerleaders, a good concession stand or good beer that cost little.... it all is factored in but how you make money is by doing all that and still turning a profit... something that UIF teams have done and if they are not getting it done they leave.... How a league makes money is by having the disfunct franchises or the lesser ones not continue to bring down the rest of the league.....

[ragefan]

the Rage is a class team, they have owners who are good to their team and they really care about the team and the players and fans. I enjoy the games . I look forward to seeing them in the UIF in 2008.

[chardale]

Also, you keep talking about competition thet is lacking in the cifl. In 2006, Rob Schreoder, was a Rochester Raider. He went on to make the all rookie team in the Afl. This year,5 Raiders are signing contracts with the Afl. Mike Mikolichik, Mo Jackson are in the process of signing with Kansas City. Three others with the Orlando and the Dragons. Furthermore, Jamil Porter has a contract offer with the aafl team. The team has 47 players trying out from 1 a schools this year alone. Is it because many of these positions come with a professional 30k job, if they are qualified;maybe.Where would you rather play, if you had a college degree in communications.In addition, the raiders have just signed an exclusive deal with a top agent in the country for afl players. This agent has a player on every Afl team. Also, Jim Kelly is a huge advocate of the raiders, check there web site out. Its about the teams not the league. i know there are great teams in the uif,but the cifl has some too. IT HAS ONE, = Raiders

[Bruiser]

IT HAS ONE, = Raiders
Cool. I guess that implies that you're in agreement
that the CIFL is on par with the UIF, considering
the Storm is their ONE good team.

[Bruiser]

By your standards anyone with a garage full of equipment, league dues, and an arena contract should be owning an indoor football team it seems.
Uh, ya. That's pretty much what's going on right now.
I never stated anything about teams being financially
successful only about why people are attending, and
it has nothing to do with the owners making money.

[FootballFan9]

The CIFL has the most teams with 14 to the AIFA 13 and UIF 8. The big question; Will they all make it to the end of the year? How many games did the CIFL miss last year? The AIFA and UIF did not miss any. That will determine how good a league is by having all the games played.

[blanketman]

The cifl has become popular to teams because of the close proximity to one another.I believe their 14 teams are closer together in square miles than both the aifa and uif. Also the cifl had 3 games cancel and three semi-pro games replacement games.6 total games.Uif had the Dayton Fiasco.The aifa well everyone knows about their problems right now.Cifl has secured 140,000 from all teams ,10,000 per team, to ensure the playout of games. Lets hope.

[Tatonka]

CIFL had one game cancelled. Springfiled didn't show up to Marion and the league could not secure a replacement team.

There were a lot more than three semi-pro replacement games... the Stampede fielded replacements from Memorial Day-on, a span of four games. Semi-pro fill-ins were also used for Springfield for at least one game, and a completely different team was contracted to take their place in Chicago so a second game wouldn't have to be cancelled.

__________________________________________________ ____

The emergency fund is a decent fall-back plan, but I guess that really means that they couldn't get enough of their ownership groups to qualify for a real Letter of Credit or performance bond to really ensure games are played.

I know the owners in the CIFL, and if they have to vote on using these funds, none of them are going to be willing to actually authorize spending of their money to help out another f*ck-up owner like RD or PN.

Speaking of the Pirates, I heard their owner is shelving the team for a season and is telling people he's gonna shoot for an '09 return. Yes, the dreaded "go dark for a year" plan that has always worked out so well in the past for indoor football franchises. I guess on the bright side, that's one less franchise that won't pay it's dues on time...