Bye Erie! Bye Johnstown!

[exit322]

http://www.aifaprofootball.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=108&Itemid=1

Though it's good for the AIFA to get rid of problems before they happen...if the league were so great they wouldn't have returning teams failing to do so.

[Minor League Man]

RIP Erie Freeze...you will be missed by your fans (and the Legends fans too, because they enjoyed the fun rivalry, and so did all us fans). Plus, thanks to you, my Demos weren't completely winless!

Deepest regards and sympathies go to Johnstown as well (your players did great against my Demos, plus my family saw they were very nice to us over in the elevator). Hope you get a new owner so you can fly high for '09 and beyond!

Ya know, I suspect Harrisburg could be pushed ahead to this season with all the North teams going...

[Sykotyk]

Erie's a tough loss, but it really brings into focus one of the marquee teams of the north is cast free.

I'm curious if Joe's going to latch onto the RiverRats now as his team so he can stay buddy-buddy with M&M, or will he go independent and just be a general fan of the league. Or worse, a Canton fan!

As for Johnstown, one of the longest running teams in indoorball history will finally close up. With OV done, and Johnstown done, and rumors of Omaha circling often, it appears Sioux Falls, Sioux City, Billings, and Wyoming will now by the longest running teams in the sport by the start of next season.

Sykotyk

[shaolin]

So that puts the number of teams in the league back to the origanal number from '07.

With numerous teams added and numerous teams dropped

Where's the stability? This thing is more shakey than a new born colt.

why?oming is still waitin on competition in the west while the league is still announcing teams not playin in '08 in the east

Whats up with that?

[exit322]

Good fans (though Joe's one of the most misguided fans I've ever seen) losing their teams because of inept owners...that ticks me off. This is pathetic for the sport.

[Tatonka]

I'm curious if Joe's going to latch onto the RiverRats now as his team so he can stay buddy-buddy with M&M, or will he go independent and just be a general fan of the league. Or worse, a Canton fan!

Sykotyk

I think Joe's been latching on to the Riverrats for some time now, as this announcement with Erie seemed imminent.

My condolences to Freeze fans though... some of the best around.

[slaid]

Joe is the biggest suck up or most gulliable guy ever. Mink and Morris are the biggest blowhards in indoor football and Joe backs them no matter what. They could spit on joe and say its snowing and he will believe them and get mad at you for telling him they spit on him. what a dufus....

[exit322]

Exactly. Joe is a good fan, but he's a little too anxious to be 'important,' and he's doing far too much stuff for the league than he should be for free. Support your team. The league's making enough money to hire people to run all the fan relations stuff.

[slaid]

:confused: If your just going to search for bad stuff to post. And add a little "former employee" flair to it. Then stay away. Or I will make you go away. :confused: this was a quote from Joe to me on the AIFA website in my private email box. my response to him was name one thing that I posted that was not true and I will recant it. He has no response. He has fallen for the garb that I have notice so many fall for from Mink and Morris. he is like their little IGOR from fankenstein. And the longer he does things for the AIFA for free the longer they will let him. If he asks for one dime they will all of a sudden have a problem with him....promise.:cool:

[exit322]

Joe won't ever ask for money. I think he's too eager, like you say, but the most successful leagues do have a lot of fans that do help out in ways not unlike what Joe does. I don't know what the best balance is.

[shimadajoe]

:confused: If your just going to search for bad stuff to post. And add a little "former employee" flair to it. Then stay away. Or I will make you go away. :confused: this was a quote from Joe to me on the AIFA website in my private email box. my response to him was name one thing that I posted that was not true and I will recant it. He has no response. He has fallen for the garb that I have notice so many fall for from Mink and Morris. he is like their little IGOR from fankenstein. And the longer he does things for the AIFA for free the longer they will let him. If he asks for one dime they will all of a sudden have a problem with him....promise.:cool:


Atleast get your whole reply right.

Are you serious? you gulliable little troll, you cant ban someone for telling the truth. I am not putting up bad things on the board, I am putting up the truth, what is wrong with the truth. You are going off of what Mink and Morris tell you and I am going off of what I KNOW FOR A FACT TO BE TRUE. Dude, get the stuff off of your nose and smell the truth. Is there honestly anything that I put up that was not a fact, if so, show me and I will gladly recant. This is a fan website, the fans deserve to know the facts or discuss their opinions. If you want a mink and morris praise website then put on the header ( ONLY THE PRAISING OF MINK AND MORRIS IS ALLOWED NO FACTS OR OPINIONS TO BE DISCUSSED), then you want have a problem....

[Tatonka]

I don't see anything wrong with his PM, but I also wonder why you feel that you need to post private messages from another messageboard here?

He's right Joe, you ban anyone who questions the Almighty Smurf or posts opinions contrary to M&M's philosophies. You don't realize that for a discussion forum to flourish you need contradictory opinions occasionally. A little give and take, pro and con, yin and yang.

Get off your ******* high-horse already...

[shimadajoe]

Bans are done by a FAB vote. You, yourself had absolutely nothing to contribute. Unless it was all negative.

As for me posting a PM "from my site"........Mr. Slaid wanted to make himself look good. And I couldn't have that.

[FootballFan9]

We do talk negitive sometimes, but I think all of us want a good team to watch in our home area.

[exit322]

We do talk negitive sometimes, but I think all of us want a good team to watch in our home area.

Everyone wants a good team to watch. Unfortunately, the fans in a lot of cities either no longer have a team, or have a pretty poor one. I can see it starting to change, though. Hopefully the AIFA also gets on that wagon for improvement.

[rams80]

Bans are done by a FAB vote. You, yourself had absolutely nothing to contribute. Unless it was all negative.

As for me posting a PM "from my site"........Mr. Slaid wanted to make himself look good. And I couldn't have that.

So in addition to besmirching him, you further lower your rep by posting a PRIVATE message on another board. Nice move...

[Tatonka]

Bans are done by a FAB vote. You, yourself had absolutely nothing to contribute. Unless it was all negative.


It wasn't negative you lemming, it was just contradictory to what you and the AIFA want to hear...

You know why restaurants put out those comment cards? They want to hear from people who have experienced their product so they can correct any mistakes when they are made and improve customer satisfaction. Your board is that comment card but you're censoring the messages and removing the patrons who question the status quo.

[daytonadan]

You know, outside of a quality FX show like the Shield, Rescue Me or Damages, and of course, Battlestar Galactica, watching Joe and Sean beat the crap out of each other over comments on a relatively insignificant message board over a relatively insignificant sport is the best entertainment on this hemisphere right now.

[slaid]

Bans are done by a FAB vote. You, yourself had absolutely nothing to contribute. Unless it was all negative.

As for me posting a PM "from my site"........Mr. Slaid wanted to make himself look good. And I couldn't have that.

I dont want to make myself look good, I want people to know the facts. The people do not want to hear all the good things the AIFA puts out, because normally there is something else behind the story and I have a vantage point that people want to hear. Example; AIFA signs mutli million dollar deal with national broadcast company, it was only 2.5 million and the broadcast company is an up and coming one not national like they said. Sorry joe, but like I said ask mink and morris for some money for they PR you are giving them and watch their opinion change about you....by the way class act putting the message out, at least everyone knows now you are just as nieve as a two year old child when it comes to the AIFA>..

[thefridge81]

I don't remember seeing a vote out there to ban this guy. Must have missed it while I was on one of my rants about the AIFA

[mel3476]

I don't remember seeing a vote out there to ban this guy. Must have missed it while I was on one of my rants about the AIFA

There must be some dissension among the ranks. Looks like some people in the know are finally becoming vocal about things...

[thefridge81]

There must be some dissension among the ranks. Looks like some people in the know are finally becoming vocal about things...

Have you seen some of my posts on the AIFA board lately? I've been vocal for a long time.

[Sykotyk]

To the AIFA webnazis, vocal = bashing.

Too many of them look at the league through rose-colored glasses. They don't realize the BS that the AIFA is putting out is the same crap every other league has been doing since the IPFL started it in 1998. They don't realize that LONGTIME fans of the sport are sick of leagues being run in this manner.

To them, it's just a vendetta against one league, their precious AIFA.

Just to show you how 'league-centric' the AIFA's #1 fan is, he lost a team and is still a fan of the league because M&M make him feel 'special'.

Sykotyk

[FreezinRich]

I was one of the four people that started the Freeze Fan club and when I first met Joe I thought his heart was in the right place. He was a guy who had lost his previous team, the Erie Invaders, and wanted to do anything he could to help the Freeze. But at some point it became evident that his idea of "helping" is to NEVER criticize the team or it's coaches. Joe didn't want to offer even the slightest criticism and still doesn't criticize the league.

Be wary of anytime Joe says anything is ever "voted on' -- chances are it hasn't been. At one point during the whole Jerry Crafts' criminal record debacle, Joe said something to the Erie newspaper like "The Fan Club took a vote and decided to support Coach Crafts, because he paid his debt to society." He later called me and told me what I supposedly voted on. In that case, I probably would have agreed with him, but I didn't like being spoken for. Also, not a single vote ever took place with the fan club, even though the bylaws said ANY purchases had to be approved by a vote. I certainly wouldn't have voted to buy the team beer after the game, and neither would the Fan Club Treasurer at the time.

This point, and the unwritten rule against criticism became such a problem that the Treasurer had to leave the club and I soon followed. Sounds remarkably like the way Joe runs the AIFA Message Board and FAB.

After leaving the Fan Club it's amazing how quickly things became more about promoting Joe as blue-haired superfan and less about the team. The team was obviously driving itself into the ground and there was Joe telling people "everything is fine." But Joe was happy because he was still running the show, his ridiculous picture was up on the Freeze website and all the other pathetic wannabe superfans around the league treated him like the grand poobah when he came into their town.

This is pretty much all it's about anymore. He has no geographical connection to any team in the league but has stated that he will never be anything less than FAB president. That way he is still the NUMBER ONE FAN!!! And he can't say anything about M&M because, like the Freeze, they like having him around to do SO MUCH for free. It's a trade-off he doesn't say anything negative (AT ALL) and they let him act important.

What they and the Freeze don't realize is that having a rabid, blue haired lunatic in the stands is kinda funny to the general public, but having the same person be the mouthpiece of the whole league sends the message that the league is a joke. The AIFA doesn't really care, as long as he's free and doesn't ask any difficult questions.

[expressfan]

I was one of the four people that started the Freeze Fan club and when I first met Joe I thought his heart was in the right place. He was a guy who had lost his previous team, the Erie Invaders, and wanted to do anything he could to help the Freeze. But at some point it became evident that his idea of "helping" is to NEVER criticize the team or it's coaches. Joe didn't want to offer even the slightest criticism and still doesn't criticize the league.

Be wary of anytime Joe says anything is ever "voted on' -- chances are it hasn't been. At one point during the whole Jerry Crafts' criminal record debacle, Joe said something to the Erie newspaper like "The Fan Club took a vote and decided to support Coach Crafts, because he paid his debt to society." He later called me and told me what I supposedly voted on. In that case, I probably would have agreed with him, but I didn't like being spoken for. Also, not a single vote ever took place with the fan club, even though the bylaws said ANY purchases had to be approved by a vote. I certainly wouldn't have voted to buy the team beer after the game, and neither would the Fan Club Treasurer at the time.

This point, and the unwritten rule against criticism became such a problem that the Treasurer had to leave the club and I soon followed. Sounds remarkably like the way Joe runs the AIFA Message Board and FAB.

After leaving the Fan Club it's amazing how quickly things became more about promoting Joe as blue-haired superfan and less about the team. The team was obviously driving itself into the ground and there was Joe telling people "everything is fine." But Joe was happy because he was still running the show, his ridiculous picture was up on the Freeze website and all the other pathetic wannabe superfans around the league treated him like the grand poobah when he came into their town.

This is pretty much all it's about anymore. He has no geographical connection to any team in the league but has stated that he will never be anything less than FAB president. That way he is still the NUMBER ONE FAN!!! And he can't say anything about M&M because, like the Freeze, they like having him around to do SO MUCH for free. It's a trade-off he doesn't say anything negative (AT ALL) and they let him act important.

What they and the Freeze don't realize is that having a rabid, blue haired lunatic in the stands is kinda funny to the general public, but having the same person be the mouthpiece of the whole league sends the message that the league is a joke. The AIFA doesn't really care, as long as he's free and doesn't ask any difficult questions.


While i think alot of what you say is bunk i will only respond to a few things.

1st: In regards to FAB voting over at AIFAFANS, all issues have been voted on. We all dont agree on the final outcome but we do vote.

2nd: you made a comment about Joe never criticizing the team or coaches. When you run a fan club you cant be talking negatively too. Your job is to run the club & support the organization, nothing more. If its that bad the best thing to do is disassociate yourself from the club and organization.

3rd: While Joe is Presient of the FAB he doesnt necessarliy run the board. ALL the FAB members are Global Mods and have a say in how things are done.

As for the rest of your post it sounds more like you have a personal issue with Joe more than anything else. :cool:

[expressfan]

To the AIFA webnazis, vocal = bashing.

Too many of them look at the league through rose-colored glasses. They don't realize the BS that the AIFA is putting out is the same crap every other league has been doing since the IPFL started it in 1998. They don't realize that LONGTIME fans of the sport are sick of leagues being run in this manner.

To them, it's just a vendetta against one league, their precious AIFA.

Just to show you how 'league-centric' the AIFA's #1 fan is, he lost a team and is still a fan of the league because M&M make him feel 'special'.

Sykotyk


Good thing for you that you can come over here and PMS. We also dont look at things thru "rose colored glasses" either. We all have our concerns but we just choose to let things playout. No sense in being miserable. If things fail or fall short and we can attribute that to the way the league has run them then we'll complain. Till then, we try to be optomistic.

[rams80]

While i think alot of what you say is bunk i will only respond to a few things.

1st: In regards to FAB voting over at AIFAFANS, all issues have been voted on. We all dont agree on the final outcome but we do vote.

I'm not sure who to believe on that...so I will let it stand.

2nd: you made a comment about Joe never criticizing the team or coaches. When you run a fan club you cant be talking negatively too. Your job is to run the club & support the organization, nothing more. If its that bad the best thing to do is disassociate yourself from the club and organization.

I disagree. If things are obviously going wrong, wouldn't it be appropriate for the fans to give the team constructive criticism? Simply disassociating yourself from the team does nothing to fix the problems, and increases the chance the team will merely fold. Being a fan doesn't mean you have to say "Yes sir, three bags full sir". It is possible to be critical of the bad parts of the franchise and still support the team.

3rd: While Joe is Presient of the FAB he doesnt necessarliy run the board. ALL the FAB members are Global Mods and have a say in how things are done.

Again...I don't know enough, although there definitely seems to be complaints that need to be addressed.

As for the rest of your post it sounds more like you have a personal issue with Joe more than anything else.:cool:

Possibly...but that doesn't detract from his points.

[exit322]

The AIFL board doesn't allow criticism. It's as simple as that. They'll just say that the few people (approximately half of the 18 people that ever visited the site) that have been banned were just bashers, but all of us had good points to be made.

The AIFL (look at the actual site the board is on...aiflfans.proboards76.com...) board is nothing more than a cheerleading board for the fabulous follies of the AIFL. Never mind the fact that their offseason has now probably been eclipsed by every legitimate league without a P in its abbreviation (and if the APFL gets their act together, them too).

[exit322]

Good thing for you that you can come over here and PMS. We also dont look at things thru "rose colored glasses" either. We all have our concerns but we just choose to let things playout. No sense in being miserable. If things fail or fall short and we can attribute that to the way the league has run them then we'll complain. Till then, we try to be optomistic.

Yeah, you do. The glasses are more rose than Jerry Hewitt's NIFL glasses ever were. When you're trying to pass off the longest of longtime fans (syk followed the game before even I knew it existed, let alone before I followed it) as just another AIFA basher that has to use other boards to 'PMS,' your glasses are rosey.

Look, I know you're desperate for the AIFL to be more than it has been these past three years, but the only difference is that 2% of the population will now be able to watch some guy in Section 319's version of a game film with or without audio on their phone.

[rams80]

The AIFL board doesn't allow criticism. It's as simple as that. They'll just say that the few people (approximately half of the 18 people that ever visited the site) that have been banned were just bashers, but all of us had good points to be made.

The AIFL (look at the actual site the board is on...aiflfans.proboards76.com...) board is nothing more than a cheerleading board for the fabulous follies of the AIFL. Never mind the fact that their offseason has now probably been eclipsed by every legitimate league without a P in its abbreviation (and if the APFL gets their act together, them too).

Umm...yeah...wow.

I'm surprised people still post there.

[exit322]

Better check again. There aren't many that do. There's a reason for that.

[rams80]

So would I be safe in assuming "Expressfan" is "Gene"?

[expressfan]

The AIFL board doesn't allow criticism. It's as simple as that. They'll just say that the few people (approximately half of the 18 people that ever visited the site) that have been banned were just bashers, but all of us had good points to be made.

The AIFL (look at the actual site the board is on...aiflfans.proboards76.com...) board is nothing more than a cheerleading board for the fabulous follies of the AIFL. Never mind the fact that their offseason has now probably been eclipsed by every legitimate league without a P in its abbreviation (and if the APFL gets their act together, them too).

The board was created when it was the AIFL, not AIFA. You must really be desperate if you got to nitpick @ something so minor? Then again, it is understandable since you dont have all your facts straight. Good thing for you these OSC boards allow crap. I just bet you feel right at home now. Crap usually surrounds itself with crap.You guys are a joke. All this BS of how you all care about indoor football & in the end all you do is whine & complain about everything. Why dont you grow up and act your age. Oh boo hoo. Poor babies. My girlfriend laughs at you guys & says you bit*h more than her girlfriends do amongst themselves. Ya know what, she's right.....:mrgreen:

[gonzo13]

Hey Expressfan, don't come on here and bash Paul and his board by saying that he allows crap, it's perfect here. As a matter of fact Paul is infallable, and this is the greatest board ever, and don't you dare question that!

[exit322]

So would I be safe in assuming "Expressfan" is "Gene"?

Of course he is. Since Joe's too busy kissing up to M&M, Gene has to be over here defending the AIFL's 8-person message board.

[exit322]

Hey Expressfan, don't come on here and bash Paul and his board by saying that he allows crap, it's perfect here. As a matter of fact Paul is infallable, and this is the greatest board ever, and don't you dare question that!

I wouldn't go that far, but this board has time and time again proven to be the best place to find the most unbiased information about all of the non-APFL leagues (IFF does a pretty good job with APFL information).

Granted, Paul and his contacts are a large part of that. Just like every non-cheerleading board, you've got to filter through some crap and some dreck, but there's almost always good information to be found here.

It'd be nice if there weren't so many ads, but I understand the reasoning behind it.

I guess the only surprise I have with the post is why you're trying to make the OSC board's management out to be like the AIFL board's management, when it's clearly not. Paul allows all kinds of criticism on here, especially when there's some sort of credibility or factual basis to it. This is most definitely not in the style of the AIFL board. And if the ads weren't so pervasive (again, I understand why they are), this probably would be the best indoor football board out there. Even so, it might be.

[rams80]

The board was created when it was the AIFL, not AIFA. You must really be desperate if you got to nitpick @ something so minor? Then again, it is understandable since you dont have all your facts straight. Good thing for you these OSC boards allow crap. I just bet you feel right at home now. Crap usually surrounds itself with crap.You guys are a joke. All this BS of how you all care about indoor football & in the end all you do is whine & complain about everything. Why dont you grow up and act your age. Oh boo hoo. Poor babies. My girlfriend laughs at you guys & says you bit*h more than her girlfriends do amongst themselves. Ya know what, she's right.....:mrgreen:

Have you considered working for the American Basketball Association? You'd fit right in.

That and you could get all the Egg McMuffins you could eat.

[Tatonka]

I wouldn't go that far, but this board has time and time again proven to be the best place to find the most unbiased information about all of the non-APFL leagues (IFF does a pretty good job with APFL information).

Granted, Paul and his contacts are a large part of that. Just like every non-cheerleading board, you've got to filter through some crap and some dreck, but there's almost always good information to be found here.

It'd be nice if there weren't so many ads, but I understand the reasoning behind it.

I guess the only surprise I have with the post is why you're trying to make the OSC board's management out to be like the AIFL board's management, when it's clearly not. Paul allows all kinds of criticism on here, especially when there's some sort of credibility or factual basis to it. This is most definitely not in the style of the AIFL board. And if the ads weren't so pervasive (again, I understand why they are), this probably would be the best indoor football board out there. Even so, it might be.

I think next time Gonzo needs to use sarcasm tags in his posts. I may be wrong, but it seemed obvious to me he was taking a shot at the "infallible" AIFA...

[exit322]

That would make sense, Sean. I didn't even think about that.

[gonzo13]

I think next time Gonzo needs to use sarcasm tags in his posts. I may be wrong, but it seemed obvious to me he was taking a shot at the "infallible" AIFA...

You are on the money my man. Sarcasm tags will be applied henceforth.

See kids, this is a great example of how a little criticism makes a difference. Tatonka wasn't trying to bash me. It was an honest attempt to improve the quality of my messageboard posting. If I had just called him a hater and ignored his advice, who knows how many more times my posts might be misinterpreted.;)

[exit322]

Yep, had me fooled there.

[expressfan]

Hey Expressfan, don't come on here and bash Paul and his board by saying that he allows crap, it's perfect here. As a matter of fact Paul is infallable, and this is the greatest board ever, and don't you dare question that!

I apologize. I musta overlooked all the constructive content over here in this forum. For some reason or other i took it all as just pissing & moaning. I just cant see how i coulda been so wrong? :rolleyes:

[expressfan]

Have you considered working for the American Basketball Association? You'd fit right in.

That and you could get all the Egg McMuffins you could eat.

No Thanks. I dont care for basketball. ;)

[expressfan]

So would I be safe in assuming "Expressfan" is "Gene"?


Yes i am. :)

[expressfan]

I wouldn't go that far, but this board has time and time again proven to be the best place to find the most unbiased information about all of the non-APFL leagues (IFF does a pretty good job with APFL information).

Granted, Paul and his contacts are a large part of that. Just like every non-cheerleading board, you've got to filter through some crap and some dreck, but there's almost always good information to be found here.

It'd be nice if there weren't so many ads, but I understand the reasoning behind it.

I guess the only surprise I have with the post is why you're trying to make the OSC board's management out to be like the AIFL board's management, when it's clearly not. Paul allows all kinds of criticism on here, especially when there's some sort of credibility or factual basis to it. This is most definitely not in the style of the AIFL board. And if the ads weren't so pervasive (again, I understand why they are), this probably would be the best indoor football board out there. Even so, it might be.

Well said. Then its a major upgrade for you to be here fulltime. Congrats. OSC will always be #1 as an all professional minor league sports board. That was never in question and we never would try to compete against it. Were happy with the way our AIFL board is running and in the end, like Paul here, were satisfied & thats all that matters.

[expressfan]

I hate to admit it but I read all the boards, OSC, AIFA, CIFL, UIF, etc. OSC is top of the line. As far as the AIFA, Joe muffled any negative opinions of the AIFA and M&M and now Gene appears to have picked up that banner. It is by far the most ludicrous site. There can be no hint of dissent at all. Even some of their long time fans have been getting bashed for questioning the league's bogus schedule. I will agree Reading is solid organization, but they unfortunately are trapped in NIFL2.

You are misinformed on the bashing of fans asking questions. Case in point, we had one fan ask about the 2008 schedule release multiple times in different forums. We responded with the same answer that it had been pushed back as the league/owners were still working on it. So, to try to ease this members curiousity, i recommended to him that he email the league, since it seemed he was unhappy with our answers. His response was, "no, i dont want to email the league" . Now if thats the case and he doesnt want to go right to the source for an answer then why should we waste ours and the rest of the members time on there with a topic that was answered previously? Other members have emailed the league and gotten responses back. If you looked around on our board there is plenty of criticizm concerning the league. I for one dont agree with the western expansion but if the league says they are gonna give it a try then i will support it. If it fails then it fails. I wont shoot it down before it is given a chance. Lest we not forget, the owners out west are willing to host teams out there too. Its not as if the AIFA has put a gun to their head. Reading & Wyoming worked out the finances between themselves and each team will help the other out with travel for their games.

Also, you are entitled to think our site in ludicrous. I wont lose any sleep over it. You have a home here and for that i am both grateful and happy for ya. :-D

[gonzo13]

You are misinformed on the bashing of fans asking questions.


No he's not.

I asked when we could expect to see press releases reguarding Western expansion and the league schedule, and was told I was both whining and complaining.

One board moderator went so far as to post "unhealthy obsession with press releases" on my member profile.

I'd call all of the above "bashing fans."

[expressfan]

No he's not.

I asked when we could expect to see press releases reguarding Western expansion and the league schedule, and was told I was both whining and complaining.

One board moderator went so far as to post "unhealthy obsession with press releases" on my member profile.

I'd call all of the above "bashing fans."


Because everytime we release info you complain that it didnt come out as a press release. It was a constant problem, not an isolated incident. Good thing though is that you have a board here and you dont have to be over at AIFAFANS. ;)

[rams80]

Because everytime we release info you complain that it didnt come out as a press release. It was a constant problem, not an isolated incident. Good thing though is that you have a board here and you dont have to be over at AIFAFANS. ;)

Well...I guess a more appropriate criticism would be why didn't the AIFA make them into releases.

Look...I'd love to join your board, but I think I'd have a user title of "defeatist" or "hater" within 5 minutes. And be banned within a week.

[expressfan]

Well...I guess a more appropriate criticism would be why didn't the AIFA make them into releases.

Look...I'd love to join your board, but I think I'd have a user title of "defeatist" or "hater" within 5 minutes. And be banned within a week.

Sounds like a question you'd be better served asking the AIFA? Why ask the fans who run a message board? We know some things but obviously not everything.

Given that you think that before your a member @ AIFAFANS it sounds like it would be best for you not to join, right? We run our board the way we see fit just as Paul & OSC choose to run theirs here. Each board is run differently and even i had to pull myself away from certain boards cause i didnt agree with their policies. Just seems like common sense...

[gonzo13]

Because everytime we release info you complain that it didnt come out as a press release. It was a constant problem, not an isolated incident. Good thing though is that you have a board here and you dont have to be over at AIFAFANS. ;)


So it's a problem for fans to ask for information? Is that what you're getting at? Do you expect us all to just sit back and swallow what you and Joe are spoonfeeding everyone?


And if you guys are going to be the main source of information, I'd ask for some type of compensation for my efforts if I were you. To have a messageboard for fans to talk about the league is one thing, but to be the official source of news is something else altogether. You guys work hard over there, and you deserve a bone from the league. Ask them for it.

[expressfan]

So it's a problem for fans to ask for information? Is that what you're getting at? Do you expect us all to just sit back and swallow what you and Joe are spoonfeeding everyone?


And if you guys are going to be the main source of information, I'd ask for some type of compensation for my efforts if I were you. To have a messageboard for fans to talk about the league is one thing, but to be the official source of news is something else altogether. You guys work hard over there, and you deserve a bone from the league. Ask them for it.

Your responses in this thread serve as a perfect example of your not accepting our answers. As i said, we dont know everything. We share what we know. We tell our members to email the league, since we fans dont know all the answers, & yet they continue to whine that Joe & i arent telling them anything. AGAIN, if we cant give you a satisfactory answer then email the league. They have respnded to others who have emailed them.

[gonzo13]

Your responses in this thread serve as a perfect example of your not accepting our answers. As i said, we dont know everything. We share what we know. We tell our members to email the league, since we fans dont know all the answers, & yet they continue to whine that Joe & i arent telling them anything. AGAIN, if we cant give you a satisfactory answer then email the league. They have respnded to others who have emailed them.


It's not your answers that I'm concerned with Gene, it's your lack of answers. You're not as bad as Joe about it, but still, you guys thump your chest because you have the ear of M&M and say things like "I know because I just talked to the bosses, but I can't say right now" and then people ask, "when will we know?" And you guys call them whiners, haters, and bashers. That sort of high and mighty approach to dealing with people is not winning you any fans.

[expressfan]

It's not your answers that I'm concerned with Gene, it's your lack of answers. You're not as bad as Joe about it, but still, you guys thump your chest because you have the ear of M&M and say things like "I know because I just talked to the bosses, but I can't say right now" and then people ask, "when will we know?" And you guys call them whiners, haters, and bashers. That sort of high and mighty approach to dealing with people is not winning you any fans.

Well the "i know because I just talked to the bosses, but I can't say right now" is mostly Joe, as you said. Speaking for myself Joe does the same thing with me and i have no issue with it, but, i cant say everyone else feels the same way. In that instance i would say that if Joe knows something like that then maybe he shouldnt post anything like that at all.

Gonzo, we do give answers and when we answer a post multiple times and our answers arent accepted thats when we suggest the fans with the questions email the league. Asking the same questions several more times in different forums on our board isnt gonna yield a different answer if we dont know the answer ourselves.

[gonzo13]

Well the "i know because I just talked to the bosses, but I can't say right now" is mostly Joe, as you said. Speaking for myself Joe does the same thing with me and i have no issue with it, but, i cant say everyone else feels the same way. In that instance i would say that if Joe knows something like that then maybe he shouldnt post anything like that at all.

Gonzo, we do give answers and when we answer a post multiple times and our answers arent accepted thats when we suggest the fans with the questions email the league. Asking the same questions several more times in different forums on our board isnt gonna yield a different answer if we dont know the answer ourselves.


Tell yourself whatever you need to.....If questions were really being answered, the same ones wouldn't keep being asked.

[shimadajoe]

The whiner part deals with certain posts, not people. Those that whined about a schedule coming out. And then when it came out whined some more. Those that whined that there was no news about the teams or league. And when news came out they cried more. So, we can't please everyone. And that is expected. No matter what gets released or not, someone will always complain about something. And we realize this. That is why we direct them to email the league. They will respond. And I'm sure someone will complain about their answers to their questions. Thats just the way it goes.

As for the voting process. There have been votes on many issues. I, as acting president of the FAB, refrain from voting, unless there is a tie. My last vote on the www.aifafans.com board was for a new FAB member(for a Southern team who happenes to be a poster on this topic). Alot of the rest of the FAB thought I was nuts for even suggesting this person. And I took alot of flack from it. My point is, the FAB is not a bunch of "yes men". Never was and never will be. And it does come down to a vote of fan peers.

On the issue of grudges against me. I could care less what people think of me. I have had blue hair for the past three years. I deal with peoples criticisms everyday. Nothing bothers me.

For those that are afraid or whatnot of visiting our board. You can view it without signing up. But to post you must be a member. So, feel free to peruse the site.

And we have more than 18 people that view our site btw. Without popup ads I might add.

[expressfan]

Tell yourself whatever you need to.....If questions were really being answered, the same ones wouldn't keep being asked.


AGAIN & this is what, the 3rd or 4th time i said this now? We answer what we know & what we dont we direct those with the questions to email the league. If their response is gonna be "i dont wanna email the league", then its pretty much a stalemate i guess. :rolleyes:

[mel3476]

The whiner part deals with certain posts, not people. Those that whined about a schedule coming out. And then when it came out whined some more. Those that whined that there was no news about the teams or league. And when news came out they cried more. So, we can't please everyone. And that is expected. No matter what gets released or not, someone will always complain about something. And we realize this. That is why we direct them to email the league. They will respond. And I'm sure someone will complain about their answers to their questions. Thats just the way it goes.

I think the issue about the schedules comes from how the league never came out and said something like "Here is the schedule for all of our teams." Sure, they announced the schedule for the teams on the east side of the Mississippi, but they still leave in question the schedules for the teams out west. Here we are, under four months away from the start of the season, and they still don't have all of the teams announced (and subsequently, schedules). All of this stuff should have been put in place months ago, but there is no way the West Division will be a success, and will likely put the rest of the league in significant financial mess, even if the teams in the east do well financially (which I do not see happening anyways).

As I have said from the beginnings of my postings, the league is doing far too much, far too soon. It is only a matter of time before it comes back to haunt them...

[rams80]

Sounds like a question you'd be better served asking the AIFA? Why ask the fans who run a message board? We know some things but obviously not everything.

Given that you think that before your a member @ AIFAFANS it sounds like it would be best for you not to join, right? We run our board the way we see fit just as Paul & OSC choose to run theirs here. Each board is run differently and even i had to pull myself away from certain boards cause i didnt agree with their policies. Just seems like common sense...

If I'm not mistaken, your board at least claims to be the official board of the AIFA. Complete with a link off the main website. As that is the case, you guys now have the function of league authorities, technically.

[rams80]

AGAIN & this is what, the 3rd or 4th time i said this now? We answer what we know & what we dont we direct those with the questions to email the league. If their response is gonna be "i dont wanna email the league", then its pretty much a stalemate i guess. :rolleyes:

Maybe the posters doubt the league will respond to them. Although you have said that you hold information that you cannot reveal, so it's not a case of you relating all that you know.

[rams80]

The whiner part deals with certain posts, not people. Those that whined about a schedule coming out. And then when it came out whined some more. Those that whined that there was no news about the teams or league. And when news came out they cried more. So, we can't please everyone. And that is expected. No matter what gets released or not, someone will always complain about something. And we realize this. That is why we direct them to email the league. They will respond. And I'm sure someone will complain about their answers to their questions. Thats just the way it goes.

Some of those criticisms that you rip as "whining" are legit criticisms of a league that seems to have not learned from the mistakes of past leagues, nor desires to. They complain about the absence of news because it suggests nothing is being done, but then when the news comes out, they complain because it is apparent that something is being done, but it is being done VERY incorrectly, based on past experience.

As for the voting process. There have been votes on many issues. I, as acting president of the FAB, refrain from voting, unless there is a tie. My last vote on the www.aifafans.com board was for a new FAB member(for a Southern team who happenes to be a poster on this topic). Alot of the rest of the FAB thought I was nuts for even suggesting this person. And I took alot of flack from it. My point is, the FAB is not a bunch of "yes men". Never was and never will be. And it does come down to a vote of fan peers.

The fact that you took a lot of crap for introducing a possible voice of dissent suggests otherwise. And I think that you will simply quash the voice of dissent with your numbers.

On the issue of grudges against me. I could care less what people think of me. I have had blue hair for the past three years. I deal with peoples criticisms everyday. Nothing bothers me.

Is this why you have a dedicated forum for "Joe vs. Tatonka" featuring a thread, started by you, entitled "Crap, crap, and more crap"?

For those that are afraid or whatnot of visiting our board. You can view it without signing up. But to post you must be a member. So, feel free to peruse the site.

I have. The NIFL boards during the days of league-mandated censorship were better than them.

And we have more than 18 people that view our site btw. Without popup ads I might add.

At once? That thing on your board said in the last 24 hours....

[mel3476]

If I'm not mistaken, your board at least claims to be the official board of the AIFA. Complete with a link off the main website. As that is the case, you guys now have the function of league authorities, technically.

You do bring up an excellent point. So people looking for information should be able to obtain it from that website, as opposed to having to email the league.

It is one thing to have a fan website of anything, but once that becomes an official website of any entity, they should receive compensation for the work they do, instead of paying for it themselves...

[expressfan]

You do bring up an excellent point. So people looking for information should be able to obtain it from that website, as opposed to having to email the league.

It is one thing to have a fan website of anything, but once that becomes an official website of any entity, they should receive compensation for the work they do, instead of paying for it themselves...


The official site is the AIFA Homepage. And again, we do answer but the answers arent accepted. I am pretty sure i have stated this multiple times in this thread but you guys either cant read or arent reading the thread fully?

[expressfan]

Some of those criticisms that you rip as "whining" are legit criticisms of a league that seems to have not learned from the mistakes of past leagues, nor desires to. They complain about the absence of news because it suggests nothing is being done, but then when the news comes out, they complain because it is apparent that something is being done, but it is being done VERY incorrectly, based on past experience.



The fact that you took a lot of crap for introducing a possible voice of dissent suggests otherwise. And I think that you will simply quash the voice of dissent with your numbers.



Is this why you have a dedicated forum for "Joe vs. Tatonka" featuring a thread, started by you, entitled "Crap, crap, and more crap"?



I have. The NIFL boards during the days of league-mandated censorship were better than them.



At once? That thing on your board said in the last 24 hours....

All good points but again, as i said, we will run our board the way we run it as OSC has the perogative to how they run theirs. Besides, your not over at AIFAFANS so its hardly an issue with you. So that said i guess it comes down to why are you in this debate? The boards i left last year i havent been back to since & i dont give them a 2nd thought. Just seems that you have some spare time to throw in your 2 cents in a situation which neither concerns nor directly affects you?

[expressfan]

Maybe the posters doubt the league will respond to them. Although you have said that you hold information that you cannot reveal, so it's not a case of you relating all that you know.

Again, as i stated previously, other members have emailed the league & they have gotten back to them.

[daytonadan]

Take a dig at Paul's site to justify yours. Clever.

All of us are getting sillier and siller. Who will stop the madness and realize just where we stand in the big picture?

[expressfan]

Take a dig at Paul's site to justify yours. Clever.

All of us are getting sillier and siller. Who will stop the madness and realize just where we stand in the big picture?

There were no shots at this board. My crap deserves crap comment meant that crap posts deserve people with crap attitudes. No one will believe that though cause its all they have to hold on to here so i really dont care. I would like to make a suggestion though, i think the name of this forum should be changed from "AIFA" to "The wives of Orange County". Its fitting of all the boo hooing in here. :)

[rams80]

There were no shots at this board. My crap deserves crap comment meant that crap posts deserve people with crap attitudes. No one will believe that though cause its all they have to hold on to here so i really dont care. I would like to make a suggestion though, i think the name of this forum should be changed from "AIFA" to "The wives of Orange County". Its fitting of all the boo hooing in here. :)

That looks an awful lot like a swing at this board to me....

Just so we're clear...Criticism=crap, right?

[rams80]

The official site is the AIFA Homepage. And again, we do answer but the answers arent accepted. I am pretty sure i have stated this multiple times in this thread but you guys either cant read or arent reading the thread fully?

You seem to have a wide definition of "not accepting answers". Some of the responses to those answers seem to be along the lines of "ok, but I don't like it because..." Those responses are promptly dismissed as "whining" and "crap".

[rams80]

All good points but again, as i said, we will run our board the way we run it as OSC has the perogative to how they run theirs. Besides, your not over at AIFAFANS so its hardly an issue with you. So that said i guess it comes down to why are you in this debate? The boards i left last year i havent been back to since & i dont give them a 2nd thought. Just seems that you have some spare time to throw in your 2 cents in a situation which neither concerns nor directly affects you?

Because I like a good debate? I also feel that as I don't really have a dog in this fight, I can call things as I see them.

[expressfan]

That looks an awful lot like a swing at this board to me....

Just so we're clear...Criticism=crap, right?


Like you, i dont have a dog in this fight either. I just call'em as i see'em.

[expressfan]

You seem to have a wide definition of "not accepting answers". Some of the responses to those answers seem to be along the lines of "ok, but I don't like it because..." Those responses are promptly dismissed as "whining" and "crap".


Cant answer this cause it makes no sense. As i have stated several times in this thread, we answer what we can & what we cant we guide those people to the league to ask them directly. If they choose not to email the league then thats pretty much out of our hands.

[rams80]

Cant answer this cause it makes no sense. As i have stated several times in this thread, we answer what we can & what we cant we guide those people to the league to ask them directly. If they choose not to email the league then thats pretty much out of our hands.

Have they chosen not to email the league every time? Perhaps they have tried in the past, and after unsuccessful attempts, they chose not to continue in their efforts.

[rams80]

Like you, i dont have a dog in this fight either. I just call'em as i see'em.

Except I'm able to refrain from name calling.

[daytonadan]

Uh, fellas...

Didn't we have this runaround last year ... and the year before that ... and the year before that ... ad nauseum.

BTW, I saw "That Thing You Do" last night on HBO...made me think of the Freeze a little because the Wonders started in Erie....

[exit322]

Dan, I think that's why the runaround keeps happening. Because the factors that cause it aren't changing. The AIFL is doing the same thing it always did, and that's really sad. It's not like it's not obvious why the Haines version of the AIFL failed. Here we go down the same road.

I also agree with the sentiment. Official league press corps (don't they have a PR guy now?) should be paid for the extensive work they do. Granted, I don't agree with most of Joe or Gene's opinions...or the way they run the AIFL board...but they should be paid for the work they do.

[expressfan]

Dan, I think that's why the runaround keeps happening. Because the factors that cause it aren't changing. The AIFL is doing the same thing it always did, and that's really sad. It's not like it's not obvious why the Haines version of the AIFL failed. Here we go down the same road.

I also agree with the sentiment. Official league press corps (don't they have a PR guy now?) should be paid for the extensive work they do. Granted, I don't agree with most of Joe or Gene's opinions...or the way they run the AIFL board...but they should be paid for the work they do.

If the league offered to pay me for helping out on the message board i wouldnt accept it. I make more than enough in the work i do at my job and with the other side businesses i run. I volunteer my services and the bigger picture is i am not only helping the league out but in doing so i am hopeful that it helps my team out as well. To me its not all about money but i suppose thats just another way that you and i differ.

[expressfan]

My biggest issue with the AIFA Board leaders, and it might not even be their fault, is they are the defacto press corps of the league. The AIFA keeps saying they are a professional league, but they have board leaders leaking information, which is often wrong (see the Augusta Colts fiasco). The teams starting posting and releasing their schedules before the league announced the schedule. And when the league did announce the schedule it was not complete because the league members are not complete. They were working on the Blackbirds schedule last season, up until,and maybe even after the league season started. They said they wouldn'd do that again, and they are. The UIF took some heat for having 8 teams, but at least by the end of October you knew who the teams are and what the schedule is. All of these things hurt ticket sales. They can act like it does not but it does. My gut tells me, the AIFA owners do not care about ticket sales. They get their money from the teams and then they don't care anymore. That is why eight teams are gone from last season.


Concerning what you refer to as the "Augusta Colts fiasco" i will try to clear that up for you. When me and Joe were down at the owners meetings in Baltimore a few weeks ago one of the Augusta reps came out for a break and talked to us in length about how & why they were changing their name to the CSRA Colts. The info didnt come from the league at all, but from the Augusta front office themselves. He also encouraged us to get the word out on the message board & he informed us a press release was coming in the near future.

[expressfan]

Uh, fellas...

Didn't we have this runaround last year ... and the year before that ... and the year before that ... ad nauseum.

BTW, I saw "That Thing You Do" last night on HBO...made me think of the Freeze a little because the Wonders started in Erie....

Well i know it. I am winded myself but doing what i can to help these guys get their facts straight. Right now they are all over the place with many untruths & incorrect facts. ;)

[expressfan]

Have they chosen not to email the league every time? Perhaps they have tried in the past, and after unsuccessful attempts, they chose not to continue in their efforts.


Again, and as i said previously, other members on our board have emailed the league and gotten a response. But if the response of those other members is gonna be "i dont wanna email the league", then again, we cant do much more for them. If anyone has emailed the league and they havent gotten back to them, those members are more than welcome to contact me or Joe and we'll get an answer for them, but we havent heard of any such instances. While the league does peruse our boards its impossible for them to keep up with all the threads and dialogue.

[rams80]

Again, and as i said previously, other members on our board have emailed the league and gotten a response. But if the response of those other members is gonna be "i dont wanna email the league", then again, we cant do much more for them. If anyone has emailed the league and they havent gotten back to them, those members are more than welcome to contact me or Joe and we'll get an answer for them, but we havent heard of any such instances. While the league does peruse our boards its impossible for them to keep up with all the threads and dialogue.

Considering how you and Joe have effectively become the AIFA's PR department...why should they email the league when it is the press guy's job to release this information?

Why should they get back to you if the league won't tell them? You and Joe are the ones who told them to go to the league in the first place. Based on your posting history over there, I think you would merely label them whiners and move on.

[rams80]

Well i know it. I am winded myself but doing what i can to help these guys get their facts straight. Right now they are all over the place with many untruths & incorrect facts. ;)

Stop being so hateful and misleading! OSC is full of lies!

For indoor football....see anything put out by the NIFL the last 2 years.

[expressfan]

Considering how you and Joe have effectively become the AIFA's PR department...why should they email the league when it is the press guy's job to release this information?

Why should they get back to you if the league won't tell them? You and Joe are the ones who told them to go to the league in the first place. Based on your posting history over there, I think you would merely label them whiners and move on.

The 1st part of your question would be best answered by the league. Unless they tell me i cant answer it. Maybe you should email them?

We have always and continue to try to give our fans the best answers and the best resources to get their answers. YES, i will call someone a whiner if they continue to post things that either have already been answered or if they refuse to email the league yet continue to post their displeasure. If they wanted the answers bad enough they would exhaust all resources to get their questions answered. If their response is "i dont wanna email the league" then that would imply that they really dont care and their continued soapboxing on the subject could easily be labeled as whining. For what its worth i do receive complaints via pm's and email concerning the whiners so its not just my opinion. Its impossible to please everyone on our board, as its impossible to please everyone on any board, but we try our best.

[expressfan]

For indoor football....see anything put out by the NIFL the last 2 years.

I have nothing to do with the NIFL. So i really can't respond in depth to this post.

[shimadajoe]

Take a dig at Paul's site to justify yours. Clever.

All of us are getting sillier and siller. Who will stop the madness and realize just where we stand in the big picture?

I never took a dig at this forum.

[gonzo13]

I emailed the league last night and asked some pretty hardball questions. So we'll see what happens now.

[daytonadan]

I never took a dig at this forum.

You referenced pop-ups, something Paul's site has and your doesn't.
Several others have taken a jab at Paul over this matter. Not a big deal, and it appears that you were unaware what you were saying could offend some people. One of these days, I'll get used to you doing that.

[exit322]

If there were a way Paul could make enough money to keep this expansive bandwidth site open without the use of a bunch of ads, he'd do it in half a second. He's told me as much.

Unfortunately, there isn't. Nevertheless, this is still probably the best board for the most objective information (across a number of sports, really, but I only look at the indoor football section with any regularity) in the sport.

[expressfan]

If there were a way Paul could make enough money to keep this expansive bandwidth site open without the use of a bunch of ads, he'd do it in half a second. He's told me as much.

Unfortunately, there isn't. Nevertheless, this is still probably the best board for the most objective information (across a number of sports, really, but I only look at the indoor football section with any regularity) in the sport.


Overall, i have no issues with the ads but the popups are a bit much. Sometimes they even override my popup blocker. I think its the popups that bother most but i dont see that it chasing anyone away either. I aint around here all that much anyways so its not much of an issue with me.

[gonzo13]

How long do these alleged responses usually take? .... Just curious, we're going on 27 hours now.

[exit322]

Be sure to let us in on the answers, since I think I can guess the questions.

[gonzo13]

You'll read it here first ;)

[expressfan]

How long do these alleged responses usually take? .... Just curious, we're going on 27 hours now.

My guess is, since there is a holiday coming up, you probably wont hear anything till next week. All depends if they are on the road or not too. I have heard responses take anywhere from 7-10 days or so. For example, the week of the owners meeting they were busy from Wednesday-Saturday, then were in Reading, Pa. on Monday afterwhich they flew out to Salt Lake on Monday for a few days. If they have a schedule like that it would take a bit longer. If they are in town it shouldnt take long. Also counting the 27 hours is kinda unfair since most of those hours are on the weekend & i wouldnt expect them to be answering emails on their own time when they are with their families.

[exit322]

Hopefully the PR guy didn't agree to the pay-per-press-release schedule offered to me, because that guy would be ticked right about now.

[BananaCat]

If there were a way Paul could make enough money to keep this expansive bandwidth site open without the use of a bunch of ads, he'd do it in half a second. He's told me as much.

Unfortunately, there isn't. Nevertheless, this is still probably the best board for the most objective information (across a number of sports, really, but I only look at the indoor football section with any regularity) in the sport.
My firefox browser popup blocker works fine on this site, so if you're not using firefox yet then maybe now's a good time to start.

This is the best board for the most objective information and I'm going to be using it more often now, just because it is objective.

[expressfan]

That is part of the problem right there. Didn't they hire a Public Relations guy? He should be fielding these questions and within 24 hours if they are any kind of professional business. You shouldn't be waiting for M&M to roll into town and check their email. You think the Commissioners (not owners by the way) of the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, and AFL are answering fan email?


Last season, i emailed the CIFL about something and never received a response. Personally, i'd rather hear a response from the owners themselves then hear a polished rehearsed and more than likely inaccurate answer from a PR guy. In this case here though, it doesnt matter what answers the league provides or who answers them as you guys will complain with the results anyways. BTW Gonzo, which email addy did you send your questions too? Was it the fans@aifaprofootball.com addy? Mink, Morris & Bowman, as i understand it, are on the road with this Arizona stuff going on.

[gonzo13]

First of all, this isn't about the CIFL, they didn't have a PR guy after Josh left, and they didn't let him do his job while he was there, so don't try to throw anybody else under the bus here.

And yes that's the address that I used.......Look, I don't care if it's Mink, Morris, Bowman, the Pope, the President, or the Easter Bunny, there should be somebody to answer emails, like this alleged PR guy. Maybe two business days isn't long enough, but theres no way it should take 7-10 days to return an email.

[exit322]

First of all, this isn't about the CIFL, they didn't have a PR guy after Josh left, and they didn't let him do his job while he was there, so don't try to throw anybody else under the bus here.

And yes that's the address that I used.......Look, I don't care if it's Mink, Morris, Bowman, the Pope, the President, or the Easter Bunny, there should be somebody to answer emails, like this alleged PR guy. Maybe two business days isn't long enough, but theres no way it should take 7-10 days to return an email.

I won't go that far as for not being allowed to do my job, but there were things I would have spent extra time on had I had a full salary. No big deal either way, the league didn't do anything unfair to me. If I had a problem with the pay structure, it was my own fault that I stayed there as long as I did.

And the CIFL should return emails. Gene's report is the first I've ever heard of someone not receiving a reply, whether or not the email was a "good" one to the league. I replied to every one I ever got, I know that...but that's been since January. That's not a common occurrence, as evidenced by Jeff coming onto these boards (he gets the general info@continentalindoorfootball.com emails).

[exit322]

As a professional email...and I got this from a number of the newspaper people I dealt with with the CIFL...if they were going to be away to not check emails for a few days, they had an autoreply saying as much. If you can't return a professional email, the person sending the original question should know it.

[expressfan]

First of all, this isn't about the CIFL, they didn't have a PR guy after Josh left, and they didn't let him do his job while he was there, so don't try to throw anybody else under the bus here.

And yes that's the address that I used.......Look, I don't care if it's Mink, Morris, Bowman, the Pope, the President, or the Easter Bunny, there should be somebody to answer emails, like this alleged PR guy. Maybe two business days isn't long enough, but theres no way it should take 7-10 days to return an email.

Speaking for myself waiting a week or so, if it takes that long, doesnt bother me. Theres nothing i need answered right now that cant wait till later. 24 hours-7 days, its all the same to me. BTW, when i sent an affiliate request from AIFAFANS to OSC here it took them 4 days, maybe more to respond. It didnt bother me a bit cause as a business owner myself i understand the process, but it shows that all businesses dont run according to the 24hr concept especially ones you yourself hold in such high regard. I was happy that OSC responded and we look forward to our affiliation with them....;)

[expressfan]

Hopefully the PR guy didn't agree to the pay-per-press-release schedule offered to me, because that guy would be ticked right about now.


Strangely enough the podcasts continue on and the website is updated with fresh stories.

[expressfan]

I won't go that far as for not being allowed to do my job, but there were things I would have spent extra time on had I had a full salary. No big deal either way, the league didn't do anything unfair to me. If I had a problem with the pay structure, it was my own fault that I stayed there as long as I did.

And the CIFL should return emails. Gene's report is the first I've ever heard of someone not receiving a reply, whether or not the email was a "good" one to the league. I replied to every one I ever got, I know that...but that's been since January. That's not a common occurrence, as evidenced by Jeff coming onto these boards (he gets the general info@continentalindoorfootball.com emails).

It wasnt anything bad and i believe it had something to do with scheduling. I used my eaglegene@dejazzd.com addy and i receive all email, including spam. I remembered emailing sometime last season but not quite sure when other then i know it was before it started.

[exit322]

Strangely enough the podcasts continue on and the website is updated with fresh stories.

Did this news get out to all of the team markets? I don't see any articles about new teams coming to the league anywhere (something about half of the CIFL cities always posted a blurb in the paper and the paper's online site about each time the league had a new team to announce).

The league needs to crawl before it can walk...thousands of readers are far better reach than two dozen podcast listeners, especially when the podcast is a bigger fluff piece than even KJK's CIFL show.

[expressfan]

Did this news get out to all of the team markets? I don't see any articles about new teams coming to the league anywhere (something about half of the CIFL cities always posted a blurb in the paper and the paper's online site about each time the league had a new team to announce).

The league needs to crawl before it can walk...thousands of readers are far better reach than two dozen podcast listeners, especially when the podcast is a bigger fluff piece than even KJK's CIFL show.

Is there a unified operations manual that all these indoor leagues are bound by in how they must operate? I only ask cause you keep saying how things should be running based on your own personal opinion and your experience with the CIFL? If so, can you provide the link so i can view it?

[preeths]

Is there a unified operations manual that all these indoor leagues are bound by in how they must operate? I only ask cause you keep saying how things should be running based on your own personal opinion and your experience with the CIFL? If so, can you provide the link so i can view it?

You don't need a "unified operations manual" to practice common sense. There are things that these teams and leagues all should be doing because they have been proven to work, not only in indoor football, but in all minor league sports or business in general. I don't have a dog in this fight, but the above comment seems argumentative.

[expressfan]

Your missing the point and the league is missing the point. It does no one any good to say, so and so, answers in 3 days, or 7 days, or not all. In this case we are talking about the AIFA. The UIF, CIFL, etc. take their shots too. Jeff gets lit up all the time on the CIFL board. It is a matter of (and we're trying to help here) if the AIFA wants to set itself apart as a league and a business, you need to provide prompt, courteous, and detailed information to the fans whether it be through email, the website, etc. Having things not answered or being let out of the bag by fans is the wrong way to go. Otherwise, these leagues just keep coming off as semi-pro and in bigger cities like Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Charlotte where there are other things to do, why would you spend your hard earned dollars on a low rent operation.

It appears to me that you have the knowlege to run a league from top to bottom the "right" way. Between you, Exit & Gonzo i would think the 3 of you should drop what your doing now and try to get your own league going by 2009. If i knew half as much as you guys and with how easy your all implying it is to just do this and just do that, i'd be doing it myself. There are 2 kinds of people. Those who do and those who sit back and criticize the do'ers. I implore you guys to lead by example and save the sport you love. We need you....

[expressfan]

You don't need a "unified operations manual" to practice common sense. There are things that these teams and leagues all should be doing because they have been proven to work, not only in indoor football, but in all minor league sports or business in general. I don't have a dog in this fight, but the above comment seems argumentative.


Nah, not argumentative at all. Was a simple question. If you dont like it though your free to delete my account.

[preeths]

Nah, not argumentative at all. Was a simple question. If you dont like it though your free to delete my account.

That's not the way we work around here.

[expressfan]

That's not the way we work around here.

Thats too bad. I'll take care of it myself. This board isnt very objective anyways. Just a bunch of gals over here having a hen party.

[exit322]

There is no manual, though there should be. Not that the leagues not trying to do things right would follow it...

I only know what I did, and I only say "this should be done" if what I did worked. Fluff pieces don't really do a whole lot for a league, and that's all the AIFL is interested in putting out.

I have put my money where my mouth was...did it for 20 months. I accomplished some things, and there were some things I didn't accomplish. One thing I do know...part of the job is criticism, and lots and lots of it. You're official, Gene, you should have realized this by now. Or does all of that go to the email that's always replied to quickly by whoever isn't doing it?

[exit322]

At least get your facts straight. There was no hacking of any sort done. The contacts were legally in Sean's possession, and they were used from a new email account to contact the owners.

If you didn't mind, you wouldn't keep trying to bring up that email (that you can't even get the facts straight on) every time you got smacked down in an argument. For this being a hen house you're not interested in, you seem to be laying an awful lot of eggs.

[Jamie]

Thats too bad. I'll take care of it myself.

They always promise... but never follow thru...

[preeths]

Wow, to show just how tolerant he is, expressfan asked that his account be deleted (hint: just don't use it), removed the OurSports Central link on his message board and requested us to remove his link from OSC. All this after I stated that one of his posts, "seems argumentative." I find it odd that he thought my post would somehow lead to him being banned from the board without warning. What reasonable person would do that?

[daytonadan]

Thats too bad. I'll take care of it myself. This board isnt very objective anyways. Just a bunch of gals over here having a hen party.

At least the Hens aren't going off half-cocked...

[shimadajoe]

Once again, I have a few replies that are in need here. First off, Gonzo hasn't stated anything yet about a response from the AIFA. I know for a fact that the league owner sent him an email. But, you haven't seen him come forward and respond to that yet.(And if anyone needs proof of that, I can obtain that email).

All the complaints here, from the arm chair quarterbacks. If you think you can do better. Then by all means, have a crack at it. I may be overstating the arm chair analogy a bit because those people would have useful responses. Example: That doesn't sound like it would work, why not try this? Instead, all you see is,"That's stupid" "That's no good" with no mention of a so called better way.

At first there were complaints about our league not having a schedule released. Then when it was released, everyone complained about that. Other leagues still don't know what teams are in, let alone have a schedule out. Hell, the last update on CIFL was on Halloween. If the AIFA came out with a PR saying that they donated 1 million dollars to MD. Then someone would complain saying why didn't they donate 1 million dollars and 50 cents to a Cancer Facillity instead? You can't please everyone all the time. The AIFA seperates itselves from the rest in many aspects. They will not have a PR on every single thing going on. But, they will inform us, firsthand of everything. That way our fans are in the know of whats going on. Like it or not, our fans like it.

I do know af a "certain site admin" from a "certain forum" that contacted a coach from the AIFA trying to get him to change leagues. If this "certain forum" was unbiased, then why would that person even concider this? Call it argumental if you want.

[PIONEERSFAN101]

"Other leagues still don't know what teams are in, let alone have a schedule out. Hell, the last update on CIFL was on Halloween."

The CIFL schedule is out.

I don't want to get too involved in this fight, either, but I feel the need to mention that, I believe it was last year, Gene boycotted the Express. Something about an issue with getting a fanclub started or continuing it or whatnot and he began helping the Lehigh Valley Outlawz. Now he's back in full force with the AIFA apparently? Looks strange. Details would be appreciated.

[daytonadan]

Once again, I have a few replies that are in need here. First off, Gonzo hasn't stated anything yet about a response from the AIFA. I know for a fact that the league owner sent him an email. But, you haven't seen him come forward and respond to that yet.(And if anyone needs proof of that, I can obtain that email).

All the complaints here, from the arm chair quarterbacks. If you think you can do better. Then by all means, have a crack at it. I may be overstating the arm chair analogy a bit because those people would have useful responses. Example: That doesn't sound like it would work, why not try this? Instead, all you see is,"That's stupid" "That's no good" with no mention of a so called better way.

At first there were complaints about our league not having a schedule released. Then when it was released, everyone complained about that. Other leagues still don't know what teams are in, let alone have a schedule out. Hell, the last update on CIFL was on Halloween. If the AIFA came out with a PR saying that they donated 1 million dollars to MD. Then someone would complain saying why didn't they donate 1 million dollars and 50 cents to a Cancer Facillity instead? You can't please everyone all the time. The AIFA seperates itselves from the rest in many aspects. They will not have a PR on every single thing going on. But, they will inform us, firsthand of everything. That way our fans are in the know of whats going on. Like it or not, our fans like it.

I do know af a "certain site admin" from a "certain forum" that contacted a coach from the AIFA trying to get him to change leagues. If this "certain forum" was unbiased, then why would that person even concider this? Call it argumental if you want.

Joe, I just gotta know, what's it's like to be the most important person in this solar system. I would truly appreciate your insight.

[shimadajoe]

There was a little miscommunication between The Express and Gene prior to the season. All that was resolved. As for the Outlaws, Gene basically gave all his input, resourses, ideas, etc. And they blew him off. Never returned emails or phone calls. And to top that, put someone else in charge of what he was told that he would be doing.

[shimadajoe]

C'mon Dan, You know as well as I do. I can not just sit here and listen to this garbage without responding.

[exit322]

And each time you put your foot in your mouth, you make the AIFA look worse and worse. I wish M&M cared about the appearance of their league.

You say the schedule is out in the AIFA. Why don't we know all of the teams in the West yet? "The schedule is out" means we know all of the tentative (for arena date changes for events) dates for every game for every team. We don't know that. The AIFA schedule isn't out.

If the AIFA donated $1,000,000 to some charity, that'd be awesome. But they're too busy trying to account for the $2.5M in "television" space from their "TV" deal. Doubt they've got the coin to give. The CIFL wasn't given much love for its (albeit nowhere near $1M) donations to the Red Cross for various disasters such as Hurricane Katrina. The AIFA needs to earn merit by doing well what it's supposed to do well. Be a solid football league.

Right now, they aren't getting that done. Can they? Yeah, I think so. But there needs to be a commitment to doing things the right way. Give the hired PR person the public awareness campaign, not two fans that have allowed the power to get to their heads.

[daytonadan]

And that's the beauty of it ... Your predictability and swagger for someone who is little more than a flea on the a-- of a giant elephant who feels that he was pre-ordained to be the biggest, baddest, importantest flea gives me the security that I will still be properly entertained during this Hollywood writer's strike.

[preeths]

Once again, I have a few replies that are in need here. First off, Gonzo hasn't stated anything yet about a response from the AIFA. I know for a fact that the league owner sent him an email. But, you haven't seen him come forward and respond to that yet.(And if anyone needs proof of that, I can obtain that email).

All the complaints here, from the arm chair quarterbacks. If you think you can do better. Then by all means, have a crack at it. I may be overstating the arm chair analogy a bit because those people would have useful responses. Example: That doesn't sound like it would work, why not try this? Instead, all you see is,"That's stupid" "That's no good" with no mention of a so called better way.

At first there were complaints about our league not having a schedule released. Then when it was released, everyone complained about that. Other leagues still don't know what teams are in, let alone have a schedule out. Hell, the last update on CIFL was on Halloween. If the AIFA came out with a PR saying that they donated 1 million dollars to MD. Then someone would complain saying why didn't they donate 1 million dollars and 50 cents to a Cancer Facillity instead? You can't please everyone all the time. The AIFA seperates itselves from the rest in many aspects. They will not have a PR on every single thing going on. But, they will inform us, firsthand of everything. That way our fans are in the know of whats going on. Like it or not, our fans like it.

I do know af a "certain site admin" from a "certain forum" that contacted a coach from the AIFA trying to get him to change leagues. If this "certain forum" was unbiased, then why would that person even concider this? Call it argumental if you want.

Let's vet this issue. Perhaps you should check with Majic directly. He'll tell you that is absolutely not the case. I told him about the accusation today, and he laughed at it.

[preeths]

I know for a fact that Mr. Mink and Mr. Morris care very much about how their league looks. It has now become apparent to me that with friends like Gene and Joe, they sure don't need any enemies. Gene and Joe are doing a tremendous disservice to the league here, and I don't believe either John or Mike are fully aware of all that they are doing. Official or not, the perception is that these message board guys speak for the league to some degree. They need to learn how to deal with criticism without launching attacks on the critic, another league, anyone who disagrees with them or anyone within shouting distance.

[IndoorExpert]

And now, back to our regularly scheduled program.......................

This has probably gone on to long. It is apparent that no league or people associated with each league enjoy being critisized. The UIF didnt enjoy downsizing. The CIFL didnt enjoy some bad ownership groups. The AIFA doesnt like the smoke screen of the western division. The af2 doesnt enjoy one owner owning a third of the league. The AFL didnt enjoy losing teams. Some in the IFL dont enjoy going to Alaska. The NIFL doesnt enjoy being the laughing stock of minor league sports. The WIFL didnt enjoy being one and done. Do we see a common theme?

Agree to disagree. Have pride in your product (whichever you choose). Just stop going on and on about the same old things. Minor league sports have a lot to be proud of, but a lot to continue building on. I have yet to see the perfect sport being played at any indoor level. Dont be so sensitive, and yes, you should be able to take the criticism. If you cant, you are in the wrong business. You might hear 100 dumb complaints, but hear just one that might save your business....................

[daytonadan]

And now, back to our regularly scheduled program.......................

This has probably gone on to long. It is apparent that no league or people associated with each league enjoy being critisized. The UIF didnt enjoy downsizing. The CIFL didnt enjoy some bad ownership groups. The AIFA doesnt like the smoke screen of the western division. The af2 doesnt enjoy one owner owning a third of the league. The AFL didnt enjoy losing teams. Some in the IFL dont enjoy going to Alaska. The NIFL doesnt enjoy being the laughing stock of minor league sports. The WIFL didnt enjoy being one and done. Do we see a common theme?=

Yeah, we should've heeded the words of Mr. Maguire and gone into plastics ...

[gonzo13]

[QUOTE=shimadajoe;70701]Once again, I have a few replies that are in need here. First off, Gonzo hasn't stated anything yet about a response from the AIFA. I know for a fact that the league owner sent him an email. But, you haven't seen him come forward and respond to that yet.(And if anyone needs proof of that, I can obtain that email).
QUOTE]


Joe, you've been misinformed somewhere along the way.

The reason I have not stated anything yet about a response is, because there hasn't been one If you have proof of this alleged email, please obtain it for me, because said email does not exist in my inbox, nor has it ever.

I'm going to be fair about this. If they respond this will be the first place I come to say "Hey, I got a response from M&M, and here's what it said." You know I'm not going to hide anything, that would detract from the fight. ;)

[exit322]

I know my fantasy league email has spit up a couplea times this week, so there could be an email server issue.

That said, I do believe gonzo when he says he's not gotten the email.

[GoCavs1]

At first there were complaints about our league not having a schedule released. Then when it was released, everyone complained about that. Other leagues still don't know what teams are in, let alone have a schedule out.

The AIFA seperates itselves from the rest in many aspects. They will not have a PR on every single thing going on. But, they will inform us, firsthand of everything. That way our fans are in the know of whats going on. Like it or not, our fans like it.

I do know af a "certain site admin" from a "certain forum" that contacted a coach from the AIFA trying to get him to change leagues. If this "certain forum" was unbiased, then why would that person even concider this? Call it argumental if you want.

Ok first off..Just what do you do? You say wait and see to us in the West. the teams are finalized but are waiting on arena dates. As I said in your forum. http://www.aiflfans.proboards76.com/index.cgi?board=wc&action=display&thread=1195749268&page=1If the teams are finalized then tell us. You are in the know??? Well then Let the fans in the West in the know!!! The league schedule you speak of is not final. the west Division is not final either. The teams are behind the ball from the east because the east is already holding tryouts. The west is scrambling in every aspect. EVERY ASPECT I say in the setup of these teams they are talking about. If you are waiting on arena dates to name teams tell me this Wheres Arizona's arena dates now? Did they have dates when they were announced? No they didn't that is not a reason to hold organization names. It is a smoke screen to by time to see if they can put all the elements together. We are not stupid here. If the teams are waiting on dates from an arena then don't post the schedule. Don't tell me you have to wait for that to say who they are. thats crap. Also Tell me this. If the owner of a team tells you they believe only 10% of the fans really care about the games and the other 90% go to the games just to get out of the house and have a few beers what would you think about that? This is what it tells me. 1 They don't care about the league they are in as long as it is as cheap as possible. 2 They don't care about the quality of the opponents they play as long as they have filled dates in their arena. 3 They really don't care about their team as they let on to believe either They are only in it as long as the money keeps coming. 4 They hope the word Sucker is permanently tatood on the forheads of all their past patrons and fans! And to them if they really think that then I hope it is they're last season cause they are dead wrong!

[The Man, The Myth]

Where to begin.

The AIFA is not perfect. There are questions that need to be asked and those questions require answers. In my opinion, every issue that is brought up is legitimate (especially after the disaster the AIFL was and the horror that some of our teams endured in the NIFL). No, the AIFA is not perfect ... but I believe that M&M are trying to make it better.

So, as a member of the AIFA Fan Advisory Board, I welcome the criticism, the complaints and the observations. Only through such interaction can the AIFA (or any league for that matter) become the best they can be.

[preeths]

Where to begin.

The AIFA is not perfect. There are questions that need to be asked and those questions require answers. In my opinion, every issue that is brought up is legitimate (especially after the disaster the AIFL was and the horror that some of our teams endured in the NIFL). No, the AIFA is not perfect ... but I believe that M&M are trying to make it better.

So, as a member of the AIFA Fan Advisory Board, I welcome the criticism, the complaints and the observations. Only through such interaction can the AIFA (or any league for that matter) become the best they can be.

Good post. I also believe that Mr. Mink and Mr. Morris are doing their best to make the AIFA the best league it can be. I have heard some refer to the AIFA as NIFL2, and that's unfair. The AIFA, and Mink and Morris in particular, communicate so much better than the NIFL ever did, and they've axed teams that couldn't make it months before the season starts rather than waiting until the last second, hoping to sucker in more franchises. No doubt, many have their concerns with what's going on in the West, but the AIFA has taken some positive steps as well.

[exit322]

So, as a member of the AIFA Fan Advisory Board, I welcome the criticism, the complaints and the observations. Only through such interaction can the AIFA (or any league for that matter) become the best they can be.

You're good people. We already knew as much. :-P

[GoCavs1]

Don't get me wrong I want the teams to get their act together as much as the next guy. I just want the Bush analogies to stop(Wait and see...) I don't want to be filled with crap. I want the truth. If teams are there then say who they are. If they arent then say we are having problems and working on it. It seems to me we are hearing things that aren't true no one has come out publically or privately and said we are there. The only finalizatin of teams we have heard of is from the fan board and they say "wait and see" and all will be good... Doesn't sound very solid to me

[1stDownFreeze]

As a longtime poster at AIFAFans, I'm very disappointed that many people with dissenting opinions have been banned. You know, there may be a reason why there have been no posts in that forum in the past 24 hours.

[exit322]

You're onto something, 1stDown. Not allowing fans to question the league only brings up many many more questions.

[thefridge81]

You're onto something, 1stDown. Not allowing fans to question the league only brings up many many more questions.


JUST SHUT UP AND DRINK THE KOOL-AID! It's Delicious!

OH NOOOOESSS! What is a league owner to do?!? They can't filter OSC. Everything is fair game! Man I hope potential league sponsors don't see these posts.... I could be catastrophic!

[mel3476]

As a longtime poster at AIFAFans, I'm very disappointed that many people with dissenting opinions have been banned. You know, there may be a reason why there have been no posts in that forum in the past 24 hours.

Were you one of those banned?

[exit322]

JUST SHUT UP AND DRINK THE KOOL-AID! It's Delicious!

OH NOOOOESSS! What is a league owner to do?!? They can't filter OSC. Everything is fair game! Man I hope potential league sponsors don't see these posts.... I could be catastrophic!

Don't worry. Potential league sponsors see how the official PR guys (Joe and Gene) treat fans, and they stay away for that reason anyways. The end result's the same.

[thefridge81]

W2W you read what I said incorrectly. I said "potential" sponsors. Meaning sponsors that have not yet thrown away their money.

[exit322]

And that's also what I meant. Not that there are any potential sponsors that I'd guess.

[GoCavs1]

I think I may be on the banned list next.. http://www.aiflfans.proboards76.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=wc&thread=1195749268&page=2

[Rocky]

I haven't followed the AIFA since Espo was coaching in Erie. (I think it was Erie...) You'd really get banned for suggesting readers make up their own mind on what boards to read? Thats sad.

[exit322]

That board makes "bad Jerry Hewitt board management" look stellar.

[GoCavs1]

If you read Genes post about Paul and this board and talk about profassionalism..Geeze

[GoCavs1]

I haven't followed the AIFA since Espo was coaching in Erie. (I think it was Erie...) You'd really get banned for suggesting readers make up their own mind on what boards to read? Thats sad.

I don't know if I'll be banned or not I just think it is funny they talk like that about people and think everyone will say.. Ok.. We believe you.. I am really wondering if they will censor my post since I threw up the link back here. Since Gene is so against the OSC.

[1stDownFreeze]

Were you one of those banned?

No, I have not been banned. I don't post too much "negative" stuff, although when I do I either get a stern talking-to or someone will launch into how it's lame that people are "whining" all the time.

Gene's new avatar that consists of the red circle with the cross through OurSports Central is a nice touch, I'm so glad OSC hosts the AIFA radio show that Gene and Joe absolutely drool over.

[shimadajoe]

Those people that were banned from www.aifafans.com were done so for various reasons. The main reason is that they had absolutely nothing to contribute in making the league better. Those individuals also didn't support any of the teams. All they wanted to do is trash anything and everything..(and were given several warnings on these issues) We do have an unbiased forum. If anyone has a legitimate complaint(ex: players not being paid) are more then welcome to post it. But, if someone posts something that "they think" or "my opinion" should expect feed back. We do not sit back and edit or delete posts day in and day out. If any post are edited or deleted, it will clearly state that it was and who did it. This only occured maybe four times in the 2 1/2 years the site has been up.

I am not the PR guy. The AIFA is not going to release every little thing it does. I however do get any "little" tidbits that aren't released. And make those available for our fans. Because the league wants to keep it's fans in the know.

As with everything, someone will break this post down. Twist it around and stir up more animosity.

[GoCavs1]

Joe all I have seen over there is to me legitimate concerns. The West is a legitimate concern and people should be able to question. If you have no answers for the questions I understand that. Like I said on your board the West is a concern to us. We the fans don't want the same debacle as last year. And this looks very parralel to last year. We love our team. We don't want to lose our team. We want our team to remain. We question the way it has been run the last few years and with good reason don't you think?

[The Man, The Myth]

I, along with Joe, Scooter, Gene & Mitch, were the founding members of the Fan Advisory Board in the old AIFL. The AIFL Fan Board was created because Andrew Haines could not take all the criticism, arbitrarily banned people and eventually had to shut the boards down because it did not serve his purpose any longer. We created our own board which he had no control over and it flourished.

I'm very confused as to why we have now decided to pick a fight with Paul Reeths and the OSC boards. Certainly, Mr. Reeths is one of the most respected people in minor league sports and this board is quite objective by allowing both positive and negative posts. In regards to the AIFA, Mr. Reeths, IMHO, has had a positive attitude praising both John Morris and Mike Mink in their attempts to make the AIFA the premier indoor football league in the country.

I have questions about this league, but I am also realistic about it.

There is only one member of the original AIFL left ... Canton. Erie, Johnstown, Danville, etc. were all the work of the previous administration, thus I blame them for their demise along with their individual ownership groups. BTW, Canton is not bathing in cash either.

Someone will bring up Montgomery. The Maulers were a national joke when M&M took them over. They tried one+ year to make it work and they couldn't recover. So, instead of running a mediocre franchise, they folded it.

Someone will bring up Baltimore. The Blackbirds were originally set to be in the EIFL, remember? How smart could that have been? Once they realized the mistake they made, they came to the AIFA and agreed to play a southern schedule just to get out of the EIFL.

The west? Yeah, that's a question mark, no doubt. Seriously, though. Would you rather be in the AIFA or the NIFL? At least you have a chance here of having something to play for.

I don't have the answers and I don't represent myself as having the answers. However, I'm willing to give M&M the opportunity to do what they said they would do. Everything will be answered in due time, as it was with the AIFL, NIFL, EIFL, WIFL, NFL, AAFC, AFL, WFL, etc. The nature of the beast.

[daytonadan]

As with everything, someone will break this post down. Twist it around and stir up more animosity.

Cue up the lads from Liverpool:

Now shake it up Bluehair
[shake it up bluehair]
Twist it around
[twist it around]
Come on Come on Bluehair
[come on blue hair]
Break the Post Down
[break the post down]

You really pissed off Paul good
[pissed off Paul good]
And you continue to whine
[contine to whine]
And none of it's your fault
[None of it's your fault]
Well, it's sure as h--- ain't mine
[it sure ain't mine]

Now shake it up Bluehair
[shake it up bluehair]
Twist it around
[twist it around]
Come on Come on Bluehair
[come on blue hair]
Break the Post Down
[break the post down]










[I'll finish later... Covering Redskins--Bucs]

[The Man, The Myth]

Cue up the lads from Liverpool:

Now shake it up Bluehair
[shake it up bluehair]
Twist it around
[twist it around]
Come on Come on Bluehair
[come on blue hair]
Break the Post Down
[break the post down]

You really pissed off Paul good
[pissed off Paul good]
And you continue to whine
[contine to whine]
And none of it's your fault
[None of it's your fault]
Well, it's sure as h--- ain't mine
[it sure ain't mine]

Now shake it up Bluehair
[shake it up bluehair]
Twist it around
[twist it around]
Come on Come on Bluehair
[come on blue hair]
Break the Post Down
[break the post down]










[I'll finish later... Covering Redskins--Bucs]

Didn't the Isley Brothers sing "Twist and Shout"?

[daytonadan]

You write your parody, I'll write mine...

Anyone have a rhyme for "beached whale"?

[rams80]

Gene's new avatar that consists of the red circle with the cross through OurSports Central is a nice touch, I'm so glad OSC hosts the AIFA radio show that Gene and Joe absolutely drool over.

Seriously...smooth move Gene.

Although who wants to bet that Unca Joe wants that image?