AHL coming to Austin

[suge night]

On last week an press release went out about a new AHL team and arena coming to town,so what will happen to the Icebats when this goes down.

[sportsguy12]

On last week an press release went out about a new AHL team and arena coming to town,so what will happen to the Icebats when this goes down.

Where did you see this? This is news to me and I follow the AHL very closely.

[rams80]

On last week an press release went out about a new AHL team and arena coming to town,so what will happen to the Icebats when this goes down.

Are you sure you don't mean NAHL? A link would help.

This also is news to me, and I too follow the league closely.

[Geoff]

AHL

http://www.kcci.com/sports/14053694/detail.html

http://www.iowastarshockey.com/newsandstats/pressreleases/?article_id=1116

Article from Austin (http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/other/09/05/0905bats.html)

[rams80]

AHL

http://www.kcci.com/sports/14053694/detail.html

http://www.iowastarshockey.com/newsandstats/pressreleases/?article_id=1116

Article from Austin (http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/other/09/05/0905bats.html)

Well...based on quickly scanning the articles, I already see one potentially fatal flaw in this plan. The Dallas Stars don't appear to own the Iowa Stars. Now unless the Stars were planning on buying the Rampage, say, and moving them up North, this could be a real problem. Especially since there is only one dormant AHL franchise currently, and Dallas doesn't own it.

[chdahs]

Well...based on quickly scanning the articles, I already see one potentially fatal flaw in this plan. The Dallas Stars don't appear to own the Iowa Stars. Now unless the Stars were planning on buying the Rampage, say, and moving them up North, this could be a real problem. Especially since there is only one dormant AHL franchise currently, and Dallas doesn't own it.

Not going to happen until 2010 at the earliest, and rams, don't u know the Rampage cannot be bought if the Spurs own them after buying Florida out of that disaster; why was Phoenix brought there after Utah suspended and then sold to Cleveland aka Lake Erie.

Historical note

Iowa was Louisville until Howard Baldwin bought the franchise after fiscal mismanagement by the Afr family whose only holding is the Elmira franchise that recently switched to the ECHL.

The Spurs desired that franchise but the Afr's wouldn't sell and ended up buying the Adirondack franchise off the Red Wings.

Iowa will still have a franchise; Dallas just won't be the parent team in 3 years, Edmonton's current agreement in Springfield ends the same season so that dormant franchise may be theirs if not sold by then.

[rams80]

Not going to happen until 2010 at the earliest, and rams, don't u know the Rampage cannot be bought if the Spurs own them after buying Florida out of that disaster; why was Phoenix brought there after Utah suspended and then sold to Cleveland aka Lake Erie.

Historical note

Iowa was Louisville until Howard Baldwin bought the franchise after fiscal mismanagement by the Afr family whose only holding is the Elmira franchise that recently switched to the ECHL.

The Spurs desired that franchise but the Afr's wouldn't sell and ended up buying the Adirondack franchise off the Red Wings.

Iowa will still have a franchise; Dallas just won't be the parent team in 3 years, Edmonton's current agreement in Springfield ends the same season so that dormant franchise may be theirs if not sold by then.

Wow....Louisville, and Afr...you just can't resist can you.

HUTCH.....I was offering a suggestion. A suggestion based on San Antonio's notoriously poor attendance and the fact that I'm not sure the AHL would approve a third Texas team and I'm not sure the Spurs would be willing to continue to suffer losses.

As for Phoenix's presence, that can be quickly explained by the AHL bylaw requiring an affiliate for an active franchise. *bangs head on desk*.

[chdahs]

Wow....Louisville, and Afr...you just can't resist can you.

HUTCH.....I was offering a suggestion. A suggestion based on San Antonio's notoriously poor attendance and the fact that I'm not sure the AHL would approve a third Texas team and I'm not sure the Spurs would be willing to continue to suffer losses.

As for Phoenix's presence, that can be quickly explained by the AHL bylaw requiring an affiliate for an active franchise. *bangs head on desk*.

rams80

Did u ever consider that Florida became more of the issue than was led to believe in SA and where is your evidence that the Spurs would be willing to continue in San Antonio no matter whom the parent team is. My point is Houston nor San Antonio are going anywhere in three years otherwise the Rampage wouldn't have been brought to SA.

You don't hear the public squabble w/ Phoenix in the last two + years that transpired when the Spurs bought Florida out and elected to dissolve that partnership and elected to run the franchise themselves.

I do agree though a lot will change between now & 2010. The AHL Bylaw was in place well before the Rampage aka the Adirondack Red Wings existed so that argument holds no water with any veteran AHL Fan

I happen to recognize the history of our league. You choose to ignore that.

[rams80]

rams80

Did u ever consider that Florida became more of the issue than was led to believe in SA and where is your evidence that the Spurs would be willing to continue in San Antonio no matter whom the parent team is. My point is Houston nor San Antonio are going anywhere in three years otherwise the Rampage wouldn't have been brought to SA.

Have you looked at a map? (No, of course not, otherwise you'd never know that San Antonio isn't that far from Austin.) The Rampage were bought by the Spurs because San Antonio, at the time, was willing to take a loss, simply because the team would fill arena dates. If the team continues to draw poorly, though, they may re-evaluate that decision. It's this level of abstract thought that has continued to escape you in your years-long posting career.

You don't hear the public squabble w/ Phoenix in the last two + years that transpired when the Spurs bought Florida out and elected to dissolve that partnership and elected to run the franchise themselves.

????? Link or it isn't/didn't happen.

I do agree though a lot will change between now & 2010. The AHL Bylaw was in place well before the Rampage aka the Adirondack Red Wings existed so that argument holds no water with any veteran AHL Fan

What the *bleep* Hutch?! Every veteran AHL fan I talk to seems to think that the only teams the AHL might "ignore" that bylaw for would be Hershey, Rochester, and Springfield. Yes the bylaw predates the franchise, but that doesn't mean they won't enforce it.

I happen to recognize the history of our league. You choose to ignore that.

Pointlessly dragging Afr and Louisville into this discussion isn't recognizing the history of the league. Shoot, the league only acknowledges its history when its convenient to do so. I recognize it as much as they do.

[chdahs]

Have you looked at a map? (No, of course not, otherwise you'd never know that San Antonio isn't that far from Austin.) The Rampage were bought by the Spurs because San Antonio, at the time, was willing to take a loss, simply because the team would fill arena dates. If the team continues to draw poorly, though, they may re-evaluate that decision. It's this level of abstract thought that has continued to escape you in your years-long posting career.



????? Link or it isn't/didn't happen.



What the *bleep* Hutch?! Every veteran AHL fan I talk to seems to think that the only teams the AHL might "ignore" that bylaw for would be Hershey, Rochester, and Springfield. Yes the bylaw predates the franchise, but that doesn't mean they won't enforce it.



Pointlessly dragging Afr and Louisville into this discussion isn't recognizing the history of the league. Shoot, the league only acknowledges its history when its convenient to do so. I recognize it as much as they do.
pointlessly, rams YOU are the one who consistently ignores the facts w/ extremely weak arguments.

San Antonio is far from Austin just as SA IS FAR FROM Houston AND WOULDN'T The Aeros have said anything about SA if they could've.

Where is your so-called evidence that Spurs Sports is losing financially other than their core property in the Spurs, you haven't provided that to prove or disprove anything, they did add the SA Silver Stars after buying them from Larry Miller up in Salt Lake or technically West Valley City.


Since when did you become the so-called expert in hockey, rams, do you have finances hidden somewhere that you own a share of the SA OWNERSHIP?

The link, FYI, about Florida's demise in SA can either be found on the Rampage or AHL Site, WHY do you think the Spurs got tired of the constant interference from Florida over two years ago to file an application to remove them FROM ANY CONTROLLING interest w/ the AHL in regards to the Rampage and why the Panthers did the same thing when their prospects weren't getting paid back in 2001 because of the Afr's and you blame me for not bringing the Louisville situation up in here is pointless which also threw Port Huron into constant turmoil after the AHL terminated the Louisville franchise and will never, ever consider an application from that prospective owner. That's why Elmira switched to the E.

AHL Fans have short memories rams80, you cannot prove anything because what does SA have to do w/ a proposed Austin team.

Dallas and Utah were embroiled in a lawsuit at the time the AHL FRANCHISE was terminated AS WELL.

Will this happen, I'm not going to worry about it for the next three years because a lot can and likely will change between now and 2010

[rams80]

pointlessly, rams YOU are the one who consistently ignores the facts w/ extremely weak arguments.

San Antonio is far from Austin just as SA IS FAR FROM Houston AND WOULDN'T The Aeros have said anything about SA if they could've.

Houston is roughly 120 miles farther from San Antonio than Austin is. Point for me.

Where is your so-called evidence that Spurs Sports is losing financially other than their core property in the Spurs, you haven't provided that to prove or disprove anything, they did add the SA Silver Stars after buying them from Larry Miller up in Salt Lake or technically West Valley City.

2006-2007 Avg Attendance: 4132.3 (announced). Not Mendoza line, but I bet they're hurting.
As for the Silver Stars....that just fills more arena dates, so it's even less of a pressing matter to keep the Rampage.


Since when did you become the so-called expert in hockey, rams, do you have finances hidden somewhere that you own a share of the SA OWNERSHIP?

Hutch, I don't have a sports business degree and don't own a stake in any professional team, but I still know more about running a franchise than you.

The link, FYI, about Florida's demise in SA can either be found on the Rampage or AHL Site, WHY do you think the Spurs got tired of the constant interference from Florida over two years ago to file an application to remove them FROM ANY CONTROLLING interest w/ the AHL in regards to the Rampage and why the Panthers did the same thing when their prospects weren't getting paid back in 2001 because of the Afr's and you blame me for not bringing the Louisville situation up in here is pointless which also threw Port Huron into constant turmoil after the AHL terminated the Louisville franchise and will never, ever consider an application from that prospective owner. That's why Elmira switched to the E.

Ok....I'm not even sure that's English.

AHL Fans have short memories rams80, you cannot prove anything because what does SA have to do w/ a proposed Austin team.

*bangs head on desk* Look...I was speaking in hypotheticals. Something that is apparently beyond your limited intellect to comprehend.

Dallas and Utah were embroiled in a lawsuit at the time the AHL FRANCHISE was terminated AS WELL.

Will this happen, I'm not going to worry about it for the next three years because a lot can and likely will change between now and 2010

I feel sorry for the folks at AHLfans.net.

[chdahs]

Houston is roughly 120 miles farther from San Antonio than Austin is. Point for me.



2006-2007 Avg Attendance: 4132.3 (announced). Not Mendoza line, but I bet they're hurting.
As for the Silver Stars....that just fills more arena dates, so it's even less of a pressing matter to keep the Rampage.




Hutch, I don't have a sports business degree and don't own a stake in any professional team, but I still know more about running a franchise than you.



Ok....I'm not even sure that's English.



*bangs head on desk* Look...I was speaking in hypotheticals. Something that is apparently beyond your limited intellect to comprehend.



I feel sorry for the folks at AHLfans.net.

you act like the conspiracy theorists affiliated w/ the Chicago Wolves who act like they know just exactly how to run an affiliated franchise, rams80, that are over on HF spewing inaccuracies about how an affiliated franchise is required or could an independent franchise exist in the AHL

San Antonio is a business entity, attendance is not the only factor in a successful franchise, you should know that if u claim you don't have a degree in Business any hockey fan will tell you that.

The Silver Stars weren't there when the Rampage were formed AND WITH THE ON-ICE product of the Rampage wasn't good when the Panthers were there which is expected when the market wasn't previously exposed to the level of the AHL.

San Antonio isn't going anywhere and why are we even discussing this now when no one else cares and isn't discussing this until 2009-10 or later if it ever happens

My point is: there are many pitfalls Dallas will have to go through to apply to a probable team in Austin. We've seen or heard that grandiose plans before.

Rossford, Ohio never got that far and last I saw that proposed arena nor the ampitheater were ever completed.

Tecumseh, Ontario the proposed destination of the Robinson franchise went nowhere either after an agreement to build an arena after a year in development.(the team is now the Ice Hogs) Who's to say this won't fail

[rams80]

you act like the conspiracy theorists affiliated w/ the Chicago Wolves who act like they know just exactly how to run an affiliated franchise, rams80, that are over on HF spewing inaccuracies about how an affiliated franchise is required or could an independent franchise exist in the AHL

How am I a conspiracy theorist, and how come hfboards hasn't banned you yet?

San Antonio is a business entity, attendance is not the only factor in a successful franchise, you should know that if u claim you don't have a degree in Business any hockey fan will tell you that.

Yes but it's the most important.

The Silver Stars weren't there when the Rampage were formed AND WITH THE ON-ICE product of the Rampage wasn't good when the Panthers were there which is expected when the market wasn't previously exposed to the level of the AHL.

What are you saying precisely? I'm saying that the Silver Stars being there NOW indicates there is less of a need to keep the team in operation.

San Antonio isn't going anywhere and why are we even discussing this now when no one else cares and isn't discussing this until 2009-10 or later if it ever happens

My point is: there are many pitfalls Dallas will have to go through to apply to a probable team in Austin. We've seen or heard that grandiose plans before.

Rossford, Ohio never got that far and last I saw that proposed arena nor the ampitheater were ever completed.

Tecumseh, Ontario the proposed destination of the Robinson franchise went nowhere either after an agreement to build an arena after a year in development.(the team is now the Ice Hogs) Who's to say this won't fail

Well...I was simply exploring the "acquire franchise" stage of the Dallas plan, assuming all else stays the same.

[WacoTitan]

I have the solution....move the Ice Bats to Waco and let Austin get their AHL team :)

[rams80]

I have the solution....move the Ice Bats to Waco and let Austin get their AHL team :)

That's not a solution.

[canuck steve]

That's not a solution.

David Andrews, president of the AHL was on the Marlies game of the week and when asked who he thought would be the 30 th AHL, he said Austin Texas,once the arena is built and hopelly in 2009-10

[djchuckc]

David made the same announcement at the AHL all-star game about Austin being the location for the 30th AHL team.

[Big Easy]

The Stars WILL have an AHL team in the Northwest Austin area beginning in 09-10. Construction on a new facility in the Cedar Park area has either begun or will be starting very soon.

[SeaToby]

Its part of a development in Cedar Park, Dallas' AHL franchise will be located in Cedar Park starting in October 2009. Dirt is flying fast. Dallas' former owner Norman Green has another development across the street.

While the Arena Football team will most likely move in as well. The new hockey team will be called the Texas Stars.

The Cedar Park Events Center will seat 6,800 for hockey, 8,800 for center stage concerts. Cedar Park and Roundrock have grown significantly in the past ten years. North Austin is growing as fast as North Dallas; Plano, Frisco, Allen, and McKinney.

The CHL plans to move into the new Allen Events Center as well with an expansion team, some think the Brahmas might move into Allen.

[SeaToby]

The AHL provided the Dallas Stars with a temporary license to play in Cedar Park for the 09-10 season, with the stipulation that Dallas will buy an AHL club within a year.... Calgary gets to move their Quad Cities franchise to Abbotsford, BC. and the Philadelphia Phantoms will move to Glen Falls, NY before opening a new arena in the Lehigh Valley, Pa. in a few years...

Dallas has been attempting to do the same last year. Its hard to buy one when no one is selling, not even Edmonton with their dormant franchise. Anaheim dumped the Iowa Chops over money owed them. The Iowa Chops are without an affiliation, their owners are broke, and wish to sell the club to Dallas. With those funds possibly bring a CHL franchise in to play in the WFA.

Of course, Polk County said no....they have in the lease a no relocation fee of $12 million. Dallas offered $3.75 million for the club's license rights. This mess will be in the courts for a while....Polk County has said quite clearly, its AHL or nothing. Appears they will get nothing...

Before the Liverpool FC fans jump on this, I am sure Dallas would be more than happy to buy an AHL expansion franchise, but the other owners want Dallas to buy an existing one. Most likely to keep their own equity in their franchises.... But don't expect Dallas to pay $15 million for a $3-4 million franchise.... I am sure the AHL governors will give Dallas more time if a franchise isn't for sale.... at a fair price.... $15 million isn't a fair price....

Lately, Oklahoma City Blazers owners folded its CHL franchise as it owners wish to marry the Edmonton Oilers AHL dormant franchise, which leaves Springfield without an affiliation unless Anaheim jumps.... Oklahoma City would start AHL play in the 10-11 season....

That is the picture as of July 4th, 2009. Unless there are more changes in the future...

[SeaToby]

Most major league NHL clubs lose a considerable amount of money developing players and with their AHL affiliations. While the AHL owners complain about the affiliation fees, see Iowa Chops, the AHL clubs are getting a sweet deal not paying the full salaries of their players. If the NHL clubs are losing so much money, as far as the Stars management is concerned, they might as well lose that money building hockey in the state of Texas instead of Iowa.... in their own area cable television market....

[chdahs]

The AHL provided the Dallas Stars with a temporary license to play in Cedar Park for the 09-10 season, with the stipulation that Dallas will buy an AHL club within a year.... Calgary gets to move their Quad Cities franchise to Abbotsford, BC. and the Philadelphia Phantoms will move to Glen Falls, NY before opening a new arena in the Lehigh Valley, Pa. in a few years...

Dallas has been attempting to do the same last year. Its hard to buy one when no one is selling, not even Edmonton with their dormant franchise. Anaheim dumped the Iowa Chops over money owed them. The Iowa Chops are without an affiliation, their owners are broke, and wish to sell the club to Dallas. With those funds possibly bring a CHL franchise in to play in the WFA.

Of course, Polk County said no....they have in the lease a no relocation fee of $12 million. Dallas offered $3.75 million for the club's license rights. This mess will be in the courts for a while....Polk County has said quite clearly, its AHL or nothing. Appears they will get nothing...

Before the Liverpool FC fans jump on this, I am sure Dallas would be more than happy to buy an AHL expansion franchise, but the other owners want Dallas to buy an existing one. Most likely to keep their own equity in their franchises.... But don't expect Dallas to pay $15 million for a $3-4 million franchise.... I am sure the AHL governors will give Dallas more time if a franchise isn't for sale.... at a fair price.... $15 million isn't a fair price....

Lately, Oklahoma City Blazers owners folded its CHL franchise as it owners wish to marry the Edmonton Oilers AHL dormant franchise, which leaves Springfield without an affiliation unless Anaheim jumps.... Oklahoma City would start AHL play in the 10-11 season....

That is the picture as of July 4th, 2009. Unless there are more changes in the future...

Springfield's not likely going ANYWHERE AND THE Economy is what doomed OKC, and Texas will lose their right if a franchise is not secured, ST, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OKC is granted a franchise

[nksports]

I have a feeling OKC is playing loose and fast with this one. If you can't make money with the lower operating and travel costs of the CHL with one of the highest attendances in all of minor league hockey, then how are you going to make money in the AHL? (Yes, the NHL is paying a good chunk of your player salaries.)

For that matter, if the CHL is so bad, why has the AHL and others been aggressively poaching markets (San Antonio, Austin for starters, the WPHL put in the Brahmas to poach Fort Worth from the pre-merger CHL). You could argue the Dallas Stars wouldn't have moved from Minnesota had the Dallas Freeze not been successful.

I have a feeling the answer may lie right here in Wichita. Now that the Thunder have a new 15,000-seat barn opening up, if the Thunder is successful, will the AHL come poking around? (if attendance stays in the 5,000 range, they may head back uptown to the new Hartman Arena.)

No the CHL hasn't been perfect (Texarkana, Youngstown, Indianapolis, the league totally torched Topeka; some of the old WPHL franchises were pretty shaky as well). But if the AHL (and its NHL overlord) is so interested, maybe they ought to buy entire the league out to run it as an affiliated AA league (which I believe it did for a time in the 1960s, 70s and 80s).

[chdahs]

I have a feeling OKC is playing loose and fast with this one. If you can't make money with the lower operating and travel costs of the CHL with one of the highest attendances in all of minor league hockey, then how are you going to make money in the AHL? (Yes, the NHL is paying a good chunk of your player salaries.)

For that matter, if the CHL is so bad, why has the AHL and others been aggressively poaching markets (San Antonio, Austin for starters, the WPHL put in the Brahmas to poach Fort Worth from the pre-merger CHL). You could argue the Dallas Stars wouldn't have moved from Minnesota had the Dallas Freeze not been successful.

I have a feeling the answer may lie right here in Wichita. Now that the Thunder have a new 15,000-seat barn opening up, if the Thunder is successful, will the AHL come poking around? (if attendance stays in the 5,000 range, they may head back uptown to the new Hartman Arena.)

No the CHL hasn't been perfect (Texarkana, Youngstown, Indianapolis, the league totally torched Topeka; some of the old WPHL franchises were pretty shaky as well). But if the AHL (and its NHL overlord) is so interested, maybe they ought to buy entire the league out to run it as an affiliated AA league (which I believe it did for a time in the 1960s, 70s and 80s).


nk:

the problem w/ OKC, SA, Austin, is partly to not blame the Stars but The Blazers knew the writing was on the wall once the Thunder were given carte blanche to the Ford Center.

and why hadn't someone bid on the dormant Road Runners because what was told when the Stars were inquiring about that before getting conditional approval to get the Texas franchise displacing the Bats, that the Oilers said they weren't selling it so that tells me they intend to operate it as they did in Rexall in 2004(after not securing a lease @ Ricoh

[SeaToby]

I got it straight from the Stars GM's mouth, If the Texas Stars can't find a franchise to buy this year, the AHL Board of Governors will give them another year or the AHL Board of Governors will sell the Texas franchise a license to play next year.... Appears the AHL and hockey in general don't won't to lose their footprint in Texas....

Whatever rules are just rules. Everyone knows rules can be bent or broken....

There ain't no way the AHL will shut down a successful franchise....