The Alberta teams.

[Morris Mott]

I've read a few online articles and some newspaper ones that report that the 2 Alberta teams, the Calgary Vipers and the Edmonton Cracker Cats are either leaving for the Golden Basbeall League, or should be cut loose instead so that the other NL teams do not have to endure such large travel costs to visit low drawing teams.

On other forums, people have even been posting on this subject a lot, calling the Alberta teams, a disaster or a mistake. Why have 2 teams so far away from the rest of the teams, and they don't even draw very well anyways? But if they did drop the Alberta teams, the doom-gloomers say that the NL will have to fold and the remaining 6 teams go elsewhere, because a 6 team league can not survive. Well, I am here to put in my 2 cents on this matter.

Edmonton & Calgary may draw under 2,000 fans per game, but that doesn't mean they need to be dropped out of the league. Over in the American Association, 5 of the 10 teams also draw less than 2,000. Is anyone calling for them to drop half their members? No. Heck, last time I checked the map most of the AA had similar distances to travel when teams like St.Paul had to travel to Coastal Bend or El Paso. As a matter of fact St.paul has to travel over 1,000 miles to visit 4 teams in the AA and 987 for another. Seems to me, like the AA has more travel concerns than the NL does.

The NL has announced this year that the Alberta teams will no longer have to pay the $50,000 travel subsidy. To me, the travel subsidy has run it's course. It showed that the ALberta teams were serious in their desire to join the NL, but now that they are established, it's time to eliminate it. By getting rid of it, that sounds like the NL is taking care of it's members, since $50,000($25,00 each) from low drawing teams may make a difference between making a profit or not. Also, the $50,000 is divided between the other 6 clubs or about $8,400 each. By looking at the attendence of the remaining 6 clubs, they are already operating as a profit, from around $100,000 for Fargo-Moorhead, to around $800,000 for Winnipeg, so that 8 grand is not something that will make much of a difference.

As for joining the GBL? That doesn't seem like a very smart move to do. Why? Because while the travel costs may go down, as well as the player salaries, so would the level of baseball. Calgary has seen it's baseball team fall from the Triple A level, down to the NL level (AA). If it falls once again, fans may not support pro ball any longer. Attendence is on the uprise in Calgary, not by much, but at least it's going up. Marketing a new league, with a new image, seems like a risky thing to do, when the pro audience is already on shaky ground.

In conclusion, the other 6 NL teams seem not to have a problem with the Alberta teams, from a business point of view. As for leaving the NL for another league? Well, that seems more hot air than wise business sense.

[nlfan]

I think you should read (or re-read) more of the posting in the nlfan forums. You've missed numerous stories that show you're not correct or current on nearly everything you've just posted.

The quick answers:
* AA expenses are lower across the board, period.
* Forget your map and distances. Travel costs are lower because the "rich" clubs are the only ones making two inter-division trips. The AB clubs HAVE to fly for every game outside of AB.
* With expansion to 12 clubs that may be completely unnecessary.

* The $50K subsidy may not have been canceled.
* The first 2008 schedule was rejected by everyone and had the AB clubs playing close to 1/3 of their games against each other.
* The 6 other clubs DO have MAJOR problems with the AB clubs as reported in the press. They do NOT want to pay the airfare. They're happy to waive the $1M exit penalty if they chose to leave.
* The GBL is supposedly has cheaper airfare for the AB clubs, that's why they're interested
* The NoL at the moment is something of a mess since they didn't get Wichita.

About the only thing I agree with is that I don't see the GBL as a viable alternative. But the issue may be that it's very, very hard to make indy ball work in AB.

If you're looking for other opinions about this, you should go to the OSC GBL forums. Those are fairly active and there are fans there who might have some insights.

[Morris Mott]

I think you should read (or re-read) more of the posting in the nlfan forums. You've missed numerous stories that show you're not correct or current on nearly everything you've just posted.


Not correct? Mmmm, maybe it's more like I have a different "opinion" than you do, not that I am "incorrect". Personally, I find that a rude thing to type. Maybe I have come to different comclusions that you have, but to come right out and tell me I am WRONG???? when the things I have written about are of a speculative nature. I used words like..."I think", and "Seems to me" and "sound to me like"... I never once impied I was right about anything.

The 6 other clubs DO have MAJOR problems with the AB clubs as reported in the press.

Just because a team owner says something to a reporter, or someone has spoken to a field manager over an issue, doesn't automatically make the answers that come out, true. There is a reason teams and leagues have people whom handle "Media Relations". It's so that they can control what goes out and what the idesired mpact it will have... and that, doesn't always mean the truth.

I'm always open to new opinions, that's why I have sought out everyone's opinions here.

[nlfan]

Mmmm, maybe it's more like I have a different "opinion" than you doI guess those are "opinions" based upon incorrect facts and misplaced assumptions.There is a reason teams and leagues have people whom handle "Media Relations".If you mean they do this in the NoL it's clear you are wrong (again).

The NoL media relations directors have NEVER been the ones who deal with these issues. They distribute press releases, broadcast play-by-play, distribute box scores and other daily tasks. I've personally met and keep in tough with most of them and they're all good people.

Unfortunately, they are NOT spokespeople for the teams. The are NOT the people making the big announcements. In this case they are clearly NOT in control of anything --if they could they probably WOULD have handled it better. It's their managers and owners doing this.

In this case we're talking directly one of the longest tenured, most powerful and successful owners in the league (and as Mayor of Winnipeg it would not do him much good to "lie" or twist the truth). We're talking about the GM --not field manager-- from Calgary who is the most active in the argument (the only field manager to comment had nothing much to say). We have the owner from Edmonton avoiding committing to next season while making clear his player will wear caps next season. We have published rumors that all three Chicago clubs "would (not) shed a tear if the Alberta teams departed."

None of this suggests the NoL is handling this very well at all. In the next few weeks we'll finally hear who will do what in 2008.

[Morris Mott]

We have published rumors that all three Chicago clubs "would (not) shed a tear if the Alberta teams departed."

None of this suggests the NoL is handling this very well at all

Aw, now that's better... posting as opinion instead of posting as if your were 100% correct.
The NoL media relations directors have NEVER been the ones who deal with these issues. They distribute press releases, broadcast play-by-play, distribute box scores and other daily tasks. I've personally met and keep in tough with most of them and they're all good people.

Unfortunately, they are NOT spokespeople for the teams. The are NOT the people making the big announcements. In this case they are clearly NOT in control of anything --if they could they probably WOULD have handled it better. It's their managers and owners doing this.


Mmmmm, I do have a little insight in how media relations work, so I am going to have to disagree with you on this one, and leave it at that.

You make a lot of good points and I thank you for your imput.

[McMinnesotaFan]

Allowing the AB teams into the NL in the first place should be seen as nothing short of an experiment. As it turned out, other changes in the league led to the experiment seeming to work well for the two teams involved - they got to keep baseball in there cities while waiting for other developments - the GBL.

As for the NL It was time to let those markets go. Unfortunately for the NL during the experiment it lost an independent baseball icon and a few key franchises during the meet grinder that was the experiment.

I hope that NL does find a way to put a premium ballpark and team in Burnsville. I would love to have another True NL team to cheer on. If the stadium is anything like what was built in KCK. That NL team will have many advantages over the Saints in the TC.

In terms getting stadiums updated for baseball, the AA flagship in St. Paul is no becon to look to for guidance. Midway was not designed to have a prime, and its primary draw is the party outside the gates. The seating is uncomfortable and crowded. What is holding back that deal? Surprisingly a lack of creativity or leadership? WHo's to blame? There's plenty of that to go arround between the city and the club. But in a free market, the club is free to build a new stadium with minimal city input or interference -anywhere. Since the roadblocks with St. Paul have been persistant and predictable, doesn't the team bear an increasingly significant part of the blame? Especially when an apparent owner in a rival league has made overatures to overcome the lack of a suitable playing facility.

[ca]

could be payed for by one of its owners like one of its owners is doing for the new normal IL team in the fl . as for aa/nl expansion plans id say theyre arent enough good , willing markets to get the job done with in the geographical footprint of both circuits which is why you have an aa south and two new clubs in the gbl . what good will a burnsville nl club starting in 09' and an topeka aa club starting in 10' do when one generally expands by 2 in the same year with in the same loop ? the last thing the nl needs to do is have another rd club like gary was in 02' whaile waiting on a pk in topeka that may never come to fruition for them or the aa

[McMinnesotaFan]

The only good - a Northern League team back in MN in a decent stadium. The Roadwarriors have no revenue, and all the expense but it is only temporary.

could be payed for by one of its owners like one of its owners is doing for the new normal IL team in the fl . as for aa/nl expansion plans id say theyre arent enough good , willing markets to get the job done with in the geographical footprint of both circuits which is why you have an aa south and two new clubs in the gbl . what good will a burnsville nl club starting in 09' and an topeka aa club starting in 10' do when one generally expands by 2 in the same year with in the same loop ? the last thing the nl needs to do is have another rd club like gary was in 02' whaile waiting on a pk in topeka that may never come to fruition for them or the aa

[BCRantzilla]

Expansion into Michigan could be another potential success for the NL as well.

[patmc16]

Expansion into Michigan could be another potential success for the NL as well.

While I would personally welcome any new Michigan based team, I don't think it would be a good idea now unless maybe it is in the southwest part of the state (I've heard Holland a million times) which would keep it in the Chicago footprint the NL is so firmly in. Michigan has been in a bad way for much longer than the rest of the country. Southeast Michigan goes as the auto industry goes and we all know that's going right now. I know that it doesn't help that they are only supposed to be there for one year but the Frontier League's Ypsilanti Sliders attendance is horrible (granted if they sold out every game they would still be last in league attendance). Their first ever home game was announced at 187 people. I was personally at the second game and I would agree with their announced attendance of 127. Ever since then, they have announced in the 500-600 range. I'm not saying they're fudging the numbers but at least 2 of those games were weeknights on the same night as a Stanley Cup Finals game. If they couldn't break 200 on opening night, a Friday, I question how they drew 500+ on a weeknight when schools were still in session & when the Red Wings were playing a Stanley Cup game. I plan on going to another game in the near future. Then I will know if they are padding the numbers or not. The plan was to have the new stadium open next season and the team be renamed the Oakland County Cruisers but no one is going to invest in a multi million dollar stadium for a team that draws what the Sliders do. They haven't broken ground yet on a stadium that is supposed to be ready for games in a little over 10 months. I fear that the empty parking lot that the stadium is supposed to be built on will remain empty for the foreseeable future. I also heard that a Prospect League team (already named the Ypsilanti Liberators) would move into the Sliders current home once the new stadium is built. I don't see how even a PL team, which doesn't pay their players, could make it on the numbers the Sliders pull.

[ca]

things out of context the league should be at fault for this since they did sell the team to said owner as for clubs that can afford the travel in a loop arent they subsidizing those who cant . seems to me that is why we didnt have a world series in 94' when the haves didnt want to subsidize the have nots this owner v player dispute was just a smokescreen for if the expos couldve had a yankee payroll the 94' season woldve continued