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View Full Version : Stern - step up we are losing guys to Europe


TBirdCrazy
08-22-2007, 10:10 AM
I think David Stern needs to really step up and bring the NBDL up to a place where we can retain players. Players are still headed to Europe (see Conroy and McNamara for the latest)...why...for the money. And lets face it, scouts still go overseas to look for talent. These players do not want to play for $18,000/year. Salaries need to increase for these players. Stern is a smart guy ( we all know that ). He needs to step in and build this league to a point where players coming out of college that do not get drafted, don't think about playing in Europe, they think next of playing in the Dleague. I think a huge part of that is the salary issue.

Seeing as Dleague teams are in relatively small markets, and thus owners can not shell out the salaries it takes to keep talent here (except maybe Buss in LA), the NBA should kick in a "matching %" of the salary. This keeps the talented players here and helps build the "minor league" system that Stern dreams of.

Also, the NBDL needs to have more games televised on cable television - not NBATV but maybe ESPN2. For cryin out loud, ESPN2 shows Arena Football on TV, why not the Dleague. This would help bring exposure to the league, marketing availability for sponsors, and also a tool to help keep our talent here (if they are getting TV time, then most likely they are getting exposure).

I could go on all day, but I won't - What is your feeling?

rams80
08-22-2007, 03:12 PM
I think David Stern needs to really step up and bring the NBDL up to a place where we can retain players. Players are still headed to Europe (see Conroy and McNamara for the latest)...why...for the money. And lets face it, scouts still go overseas to look for talent. These players do not want to play for $18,000/year. Salaries need to increase for these players. Stern is a smart guy ( we all know that ). He needs to step in and build this league to a point where players coming out of college that do not get drafted, don't think about playing in Europe, they think next of playing in the Dleague. I think a huge part of that is the salary issue.

Seeing as Dleague teams are in relatively small markets, and thus owners can not shell out the salaries it takes to keep talent here (except maybe Buss in LA), the NBA should kick in a "matching %" of the salary. This keeps the talented players here and helps build the "minor league" system that Stern dreams of.

Also, the NBDL needs to have more games televised on cable television - not NBATV but maybe ESPN2. For cryin out loud, ESPN2 shows Arena Football on TV, why not the Dleague. This would help bring exposure to the league, marketing availability for sponsors, and also a tool to help keep our talent here (if they are getting TV time, then most likely they are getting exposure).

I could go on all day, but I won't - What is your feeling?

While the NBA does seem to use the D-League as a tax shelter/write off, raising its costs might drop it below the line where its continued operation is worth it.

There are also many more teams in Europe with open roster spots than the D-League has to offer.

As for Cable TV, the demand has to be there (or ESPN has to hold a stake in the league). Nobody wants to watch a team from Bismarck play Albuquerque, so ESPN 2 won't pick it up.

ChumpDumper
08-22-2007, 05:11 PM
Eh, this kind of migration happens every season. Players spend a couple of years in the D-League and if they don't move up, they go to Europe to stay or make enough money to try again. There are always players ready to come in and take their places. Sure an NBA scout may see your team play once or twice a year in Europe, but you are guaranteed to have scouts from EVERY NBA team watch you if you play in the D-League. Kris Clack came back from Europe for this very reason. It will be interesting to see if the talent level is maintained with all the planned expansion though.

As for TV, a couple of teams have local deals (Bakersfield comes to mind) but I wouldn't expect the interest to be anything past regional. Fox Sports SW has a regional deal with the Nolan Ryan-owned minor league baseball teams in Round Rock and Corpus Christi and show one a week. Maybe something like that could be worked out.

abie10
08-25-2007, 06:00 AM
lets be honest here...

if a player is good enough to make the NBA, he'll get a callup.

Chances are that if a guy spends 3 or 4 years in the D-League, he's not going to make the NBA. After that, Europe is your best option. Besides, I don't think the D-League is meant to be a league that sustains players. Hell, it's call the "Development" league. I think that is part of the reason that the rosters change a lot each year. The purpose of the league is to develop players.

McNamara (or however you spell it) is probably better suited in Europe. He was an awesome College player, but the NBA is a whole other level...

AConcernedCitizen
09-26-2007, 11:23 AM
I thought the max salary was $15,000?

But what's the difference with $18,000. I agree with the basic premise though: if the D-League is the best minor league in the world, I think that's what they are saying, well, how do the classify the D-League vs some of the leagues in Europe.

I haven't seen a D-League game yet, but I want to and I want to see just what the quality is like. How would a D-League team fare against a team from the ACB in Spain? Or even a BBL team from Great Britain?

At the end of the day, people are being asked to pay money to see these teams and there are owners who want to have their teams win.

If I owned a D-League team, I would want that $18,000 salary cap out the window ASAP or I would want the NBA to guarantee me more top players.

I think if the salary cap was raised to $50,000 then it would change a lot of things. For $50,000 you can far more easily get someone to forgo going to Europe and stay in America. Asking a kid with no money to throw away 3 years in the D-League on no cash is hard to justify.

ChumpDumper
09-26-2007, 01:29 PM
I haven't seen a D-League game yet, but I want to and I want to see just what the quality is like. How would a D-League team fare against a team from the ACB in Spain?I suppose a team like the Wizards at full strength would fare pretty well. I don't have any direct comparisons but as an example, Marcus Fizer was MVP of the D-League a couple of seasons ago, and last season he was the top scorer in the ACB.

We'll see about the talent drain situation as the season progresses. Even the NBA is starting to lose players to Europe. The D-League's ace in the hole will always be exposure to NBA scouts and the ease of inseason callups. If a player thinks that can happen for him and his family isn't starving, the D-League will be a decent option.

bectond
09-28-2007, 11:02 AM
II haven't seen a D-League game yet, but I want to and I want to see just what the quality is like. How would a D-League team fare against a team from the ACB in Spain? Or even a BBL team from Great Britain?.

Take the Tulsa 66ers, they are the affiliate to Milwaukee, Dallas and New York. If each one of those teams send 2 players down, the 66ers would have 6 NBA assignment players. Many of the final cuts from NBA camps also enter the D-League draft. If 1 player that was cut from each NBA camp enters the D-League draft (30 players), than each D-League team could draft as many as 2 NBA level players. Add in a top-notch undrafted rookie, a returning big time player from overseas that is giving the NBA another shot and you have a team that could contend with the best teams in Europe.

6 NBA players on assignment
2 Players that were cut during a NBA camp
1 Returning euro-league star
1 top-notch rookie free agent
1 local allocation player
1 returning NBDL player

Therefore, I feel the talent level is extremely high.

AConcernedCitizen
10-01-2007, 07:45 AM
Have a look at this:

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/261956

AConcernedCitizen
10-01-2007, 07:48 AM
Bectond, your post is the first one that I've actually been able to see that explains to me what a D-League roster looks, or 'could' look like.

You're right, it's not that bad a paper roster.

Not sure what level of Europe it would compete with, but surely do okay or as as you say, competitive at the top end of ULEB Cup teams or bottom end of Euroleague teams.

Still don't know how much that returning Euroleague player would be allowed to be paid.

D-League owners should be allowed to 'stock' one player at say $50,000 or $100,000 for the season if it wanted.

bectond
10-13-2007, 04:57 PM
D-League owners should be allowed to 'stock' one player at say $50,000 or $100,000 for the season if it wanted.

NBA teams sign Free Agents during the summer to work out with their rookies. These Free Agents may or may not play on the teams summer league entry. Teams may also bring those same free agents into there pre-season training camp in the fall. Free Agents make between $30,000 and $50,000 for their summer work and an additional $30,000 to $100,000 for attending an NBA training camp. Therefore, the 5 players that are waived by each of the NBA's 30 clubs during training camp have already earned between $30,000 and $150,000 before the start of the D-League season. (teams can bring 20 guys to their pre-season camps and keep 14-15 players on their NBA regular season rosters) Of the players that were cut, most elect not to play in the D-League or the CBA and simply return home or head off to Europe after they are waived. Some however, become the stars of the D-League, where they make another $12,000 to $24,000 via the NBA. D-League clubs don't have rights to any of the players that play on there teams. If a NBA club has an injury, they can call up a player they are familiar regardless of which D-League team that player plays for on a ten day contract. Which pays another $30,000.

Therefore, a minor league player can make as little as $12,000 (normally rookies that were not invited on a summer league roster or an NBA training camp) in the D-League or as much as $174,000 if he played on a summer league roster and was invited to an NBA training camp.
Players also make $30,000 on each ten day call-up they receive.

In Conclusion, NBA teams are already doing what you have suggested, D-League owners can bring back up to 4 players from the prior season but they can not increase the amount of money the NBA pays D-League players.

jjbballfan
10-28-2007, 12:17 PM
The Dleague needs to grow like this
1. allow NBA contract players to play on rehab assignments in the dleague up to 5 games or something like that
2. make it so if you are foreign and you want to be drafted you have to play 1 year in the Dleague...
3. quit this where a NBA team can draft a guy and hold his rights while he plays in Europe make it so the NBA, D-League or loose your rights
4. make it so an NBA team can hold onto a NBA players rights for less then the NBA price but more then the dleague price make it so like 4 guys can maintain rights make it 3 years instead of 2 and make the salary 25,000

Those are the two things that would help alot with the Dleague, you are not going to over spend Europe but Europe has problems also

DakotaWiz
10-28-2007, 03:51 PM
I believe the high caliber players do make 25,000 in the D-League.. I'm surprised they haven't decided to do rehab assignments either, only a matter of time I'd guess.

ChumpDumper
10-28-2007, 06:56 PM
The Dleague needs to grow like this
1. allow NBA contract players to play on rehab assignments in the dleague up to 5 games or something like thatShort-term ehab assignments don't make a ton of sense for NBA players. If you are healthy enough to play in the D-League you're healthy enough to play in the NBA.

2. make it so if you are foreign and you want to be drafted you have to play 1 year in the Dleague...Maybe if you are below the minimum US draft age.

3. quit this where a NBA team can draft a guy and hold his rights while he plays in Europe make it so the NBA, D-League or loose your rightsThat would wreak havoc on the lotto teams that aren't popular with players. There would be constant threats from lottery picks to go to Europe to become free agents. It is a draft after all.

4. make it so an NBA team can hold onto a NBA players rights for less then the NBA price but more then the dleague price make it so like 4 guys can maintain rights make it 3 years instead of 2 and make the salary 25,000I think something like this might develop as more teams buy their own D-League affiliates. RC Buford told me that one of he rule changes he wanted the league to make is for the Spurs to be able hold some rights to the players on the regular 10-man Toros roster.

jjbballfan
10-28-2007, 07:56 PM
Short-term ehab assignments don't make a ton of sense for NBA players. If you are healthy enough to play in the D-League you're healthy enough to play in the NBA.

Maybe if you are below the minimum US draft age.

That would wreak havoc on the lotto teams that aren't popular with players. There would be constant threats from lottery picks to go to Europe to become free agents. It is a draft after all.

I think something like this might develop as more teams buy their own D-League affiliates. RC Buford told me that one of he rule changes he wanted the league to make is for the Spurs to be able hold some rights to the players on the regular 10-man Toros roster.

Alot of players are slowed back in after injuries because the clock isn't quite there.
All I was getting at with Europe is right now they can play over there for awhile but I think the NBA needs to go to 1 year hold there rights. I think the minor league system should become like baseball as all teams hold rights to the players the only thing is right now there are still teams that have 2 or 3 parent teams.

bectond
10-30-2007, 07:35 PM
Alot of players are slowed back in after injuries because the clock isn't quite there.
All I was getting at with Europe is right now they can play over there for awhile but I think the NBA needs to go to 1 year hold there rights. I think the minor league system should become like baseball as all teams hold rights to the players the only thing is right now there are still teams that have 2 or 3 parent teams.

The difference is baseball has a 40 man roster. 25 play on the major league team and 15 are garaged in AAA. At the end of the season rosters are extended and all 40 players are called-up.
Basketball has a 15 man roster and all 15 are on the NBA roster. 12 suit-up and 3 are either injured or in suits. The NBA keeps all 15 guys with the parent team unless the player is in his 1st or 2nd year, and even then they only allow teams to send 2 players down. If anything, the NBA should go back to a 12 man roster and allow each team to garage 10 youngsters in the D-League from Nov-Jan. Then just as MLB does extend NBA rosters to 15 players in mid-January. Each D-League club would then call-up 3 CBA guys to fill the slots vacated by the NBA call-ups. The CBA could then promote worthy players from a class A type short season league that only plays a 8 week season from Mid- Nov tp Mid Jan.

If this format occurred, NBA teams could hire more up-tempo style coaches that trust veteran players to play a more intuitive brand of basketball, Thus allowing top-notch professional athletes the amount of freedom they need in order to satisfy fans desire to witness the best preform without needless restrictions on the court. Coaches that enjoy teaching the game and developing talent could coach in a more restricted brand of basketball at the D-League and journeymen looking for a second or third shot could troll around the CBA looking for the right situation