CIFL Paying it's Bills Now ?

[chardale]

So what the brothers, are referring to, sense they could not get along with ownership 2 yrs ago:IE from another league, they were qualified to OWNING and starting a league and do thing's thier way, which by the way might not be the right way, by looking at what happend this past yr,,,,,,,,,,, thay are saying the bills that the league has incurred will be paid? I know of a crew of Ref's that worked 2 Chicago Slaughter games and have NOT been paid to this day. How long ago did the season end? And allow the Chicago team to pay the players more than they were aloud to pay them. And to hold it over the players head,,,,if you want to play for the indoor team, you have to sign to play for our outdoor team. Didn't a few guys from last year get kicked out or told to leave for this, this one I dont know about. And let me ask this last one. How can a city cop afford to own an expansion team in the CIFL? O'h I just answered my own question. Those teams that want a change, ]SHOULD GO TO THE WIFL where the owners do own a stake in the league.[/U]

[cRUSHer]

How can a city cop afford to own an expansion team in the CIFL?

Well . maybe the cop is independently wealthy aside
from being a law enforcement officer.

Owning another business perhaps .
or maybe it was done the old fashioned way.
Bribes & kickbacks .

Free lunch doesn't hurt either. ;)

[exit322]

You assume the CIFL makes its teams pay their league fees and dues.

[chardale]

No No , thats not what I am saying. Trying to figure out when those ref are going to get paid by the league. Seems the league is and or not changing for the better. Owners need to wake up and DO the right thing, Hum sounds like a movie. Owners board or somthing, but you watch, after all of this settles down, they will some small token changes, enough to make the owners feel special.

[exit322]

If that much.

[Surgefan]

It seems the league has made some changes. Do you wish to comment about anything that has happened exit322?

[exit322]

I hope changes are truly made, and it's not just rhetoric like what was said last year. Last year, "things would be different," and they got worse.

I hope it's not the same this year, though I have my doubts.

[Surgefan]

Perhaps you could comment on the changes described in this post, which I quote so the folks banned from the CIFL board can read:

Over the last 6-8 months we have worked hard to create a solid league in the CIFL. We, like the other leagues, have experienced some issues this season that gave our league a black eye. I believe that as a league we did the right thing by eliminating teams that we didn't feel should be in our league, thus proving that we want to get better and we want to be the best.

We have been contacted a few times each day by those interested in either joining our league as an expansion team or bringing their existing team over to the CIFL. In an attempt to solidify what we have, we really have not looked too much into expansion, only going with what we feel are the most qualified people to run teams in this league. We don't want the money or the ability to call ourself the biggest league, we want to have the best teams and to be able to call ourselves the best league. We owe that to our owners, to our players and to our fans, and we stand by that.

Today was a tough day for me because I have found some disturbing news over the past week. Last Friday, owners of teams in the CIFL opened their email to find an email from the IFPA, email address of yourindoorleague@yahoo.com. This email contained some very private information, some true, some not about our league and operations and future plans for indoor football. I was blown away to see such detailed information and ideas so similar to ones that we have either entertained or have written on our dry erase board in this office at some point. As I read on, I realized that this email had to come from someone with in the league office, someone that I put my trust in to be here working with me on a daily basis. I was right.

When we created the league I was very nervous about those that I would deal with and always watching over my shoulder because I didn't want to have the day where the knife was driven into my back. Well, I regret to say that I must have let my guard down because it happened with that email, however, the old web address glifl.com has some old email addresses that are still valid and a while back I set a catch all for all the glifl.com email accounts as a back up on Yahoo, those would then just end up in a big GLIFL folder. After reading the email over and over I decided that I should clean up some of my mailboxes and in there I found the yourindoorleague@yahoo.com activation email linked to Sean (Tatonka) that he registered it on the Thursday before sending the email. In addition to that was the email draft of what was sent to our owners written by Josh (exit322) which was then modified before being sent as there are some changes. Essentially, two of the people that I have worked closely with over the past two seasons have been working together and plotting to destroy the CIFL and its image to the owners, thinking they would come on board with their ideas that we have come up with this offseason. I have never felt so violated and betrayed in business.

These two members of this forum will be no longer. I have banned them both for something that I believe is unforgivable. I have not worked countless hours over the past two years trying to bring the fans quality minor league football entertainment to have it taken away or have my trust and business breached upon by those that think this is just some easy set up and that they can do it better.

This message will make its way through the message boards online and anyone that shares any important league info with these two should reconsider because it is in my belief that they were going to target every league, not just the CIFL. People need to know. This is unfortunately what this business is, a business where you can't trust anyone and you always have to keep your guard up because someone is always waiting to take you down, always.

I feel that we have a lot of work to do in preparation for the 2008 season and most owners believe that the things to be changed or fixed, such as stats, film and officiating are the major hurdles that we have to take care of. I am here to say that I agree, and that we are listening to the owners and to the fans to make this league the best there is and that they will be better. These are minor issues that just need some compliance and organization and they will be there for all to enjoy. We have set a high standard for what is acceptable and our fans know better than to just say "ok". You want the best and that is what we are here to give you, it is what you deserve. We appreciate the standards that we are being held to, it is what will make us stronger and the owners, players and fans will benefit from it! Thank you for being loyal to the CIFL and making your voice heard where you want to be to your owners, we won't let you down.

Jeff Spitaleri
Co-Owner CIFL

[exit322]

I did. The league is promising the same changes they promised last year that weren't even close to being delivered. They need to deliver on those changes, rather than complain about some email that was sent out.

[Surgefan]

I did.

I must have missed the comments you made about being accused of "plotting to destroy the CIFL and its image to the owners".

Would you be so kind as to point out where those comments you made are? Thanks.

[exit322]

If the league changes itself and fixes the errors that have plagued it wildly over the past two years (it doesn't take an email to the owners for the league to look bad; they're quite good at it on their own), then the wake-up call that this formerly anonymous email served was worth it.

If the league continues to do the same things it did, giving Surge fans another exciting contest against a 13-man semipro team that just met eachother earlier that week, then it was a complete waste of Sean's and my time and effort.

Sadly, I think it was a complete waste of Sean's and my time and effort.

When I worked with the CIFL, I told Jeff and Eric numerous times "if you do things the way they're supposed to be done, it doesn't matter what others try to do." That still holds true. Do it right, and there won't be any reason to worry about any attempts to take teams. The ones that don't see it's being done right probably aren't going to be helpful anyways. Since the league sees it fit to attack the source rather than the information within, it tells me that something's up.

[Surgefan]

If the league changes itself and fixes the errors that have plagued it wildly over the past two years (it doesn't take an email to the owners for the league to look bad; they're quite good at it on their own), then the wake-up call that this formerly anonymous email served was worth it.

If the league continues to do the same things it did, giving Surge fans another exciting contest against a 13-man semipro team that just met eachother earlier that week, then it was a complete waste of Sean's and my time and effort.

Sadly, I think it was a complete waste of Sean's and my time and effort.

When I worked with the CIFL, I told Jeff and Eric numerous times "if you do things the way they're supposed to be done, it doesn't matter what others try to do." That still holds true. Do it right, and there won't be any reason to worry about any attempts to take teams. The ones that don't see it's being done right probably aren't going to be helpful anyways. Since the league sees it fit to attack the source rather than the information within, it tells me that something's up.

After that post, you may not want to make further comment about your actions.

Trust me.

[rams80]

After that post, you may not want to make further comment about your actions.

Trust me.

I'm just a bystander, but my three cents are...

1) Indoor football has had so much bad press the last couple of years that it behooves you to do it rightly.

2) Another league going "niffle" on us would fall in the "very bad" category.

3) If a league is going to ignore these things (and the fact that the af2 is always willing to act as the AFL's hitman against these leagues given the slightest opening) then maybe it should be stopped before the fecal matter really hits the ventilator.

[exit322]

And with that, I've said my piece. I know i didn't do it the right way, and as such it's time to pull myself away from it. I'm not going to take back what I said and what I did, because at the time I felt it was right.

But it likely wasn't.

So, in an effort to "do it right," it's time for me to pull myself aside.

[chardale]

Is there a % fee involved for gaining such money's owed to you, may I ask.

[jeffspitaleri]

-Edited-Because I am not going to get into the lies of this sport on a public forum.

[LetsGoStampede]

DantheFan,

A lot of people was made promises but that's just what they are, promises. If it's not in writing it doesn't mean squat. I'm not saying the league made any promises, I'm saying you wasn't the only one who was told one thing and another happened.

What about the players who risked their physical being for Ramone and wasn't paid a penny. I think they deserve their pay before anyone else. Ramone is the one you need to take your pay issue up with, not the league. If you had a contract with Ramone then go to the Labor Board and have them deal with it, it's not the leagues responsibility.

[rams80]

-Edited-Because I am not going to get into the lies of this sport on a public forum.

Did you learn a lesson about "due dilligence" and it's importance in this sport? Because if you did, then maybe the problems of this past season won't happen again.

Just remember....quality is much better than quantity.

[Jamie]

Ramone is the one you need to take your pay issue up with, not the league. If you had a contract with Ramone then go to the Labor Board and have them deal with it, it's not the leagues responsibility.

I don't know any more about this stuff than what is posted here... but I think that what DtF, and others, have stated, or implied, is that after it became clear the Ramone was not going to be paying, the League made promises to players and staff that they would keep them paid.

So, if in fact those promises were made, the the League should follow thru.

And Ramone should be chased away from any town where he tries to start any new business. But that's another story.

[chardale]

I don't know any more about this stuff than what is posted here... but I think that what DtF, and others, have stated, or implied, is that after it became clear the Ramone was not going to be paying, the League made promises to players and staff that they would keep them paid.

So, if in fact those promises were made, the the League should follow thru.

And Ramone should be chased away from any town where he tries to start any new business. But that's another story. Jamie,,,,,are you saying Ramone might be putting ANOTHER team in the CIFL after what happened this past yr?

[exit322]

I doubt Ramone will be welcome in the CIFL.

[hawkeye]

Though I may have handled it a little differently I feel that Josh and Sean had some legitimate gripes. But more than anything I know these guys truly love the game and want to see it done right.

I presented ideas to a league and they were very receptive to the ideas. It seems as if the league wasn't overly fond of Josh and Sean rocking the boat in the first place. If things were indeed being done right there wouldn't be all the problems.

The CIFL, as I see it, needs a shot of good PR work mixed with actions backing up words. It can't all be about the game...it needs to be about taking a few teams and making them a success. If you do that then expansion is never a problem. Teams will call you instead of you calling them.

It seems the be the issue with leagues as a whole. All worried about expansion and not worried about growing the product they have. You don't open up a chain of restaurants overnight folks. You perfect one and then you open up more. Take 8-12 teams, make them blue prints of what organizations should be, and then teams will beat down your door with a buy in in hand.

Doing it right has got to be more than a motto or a slogan...it's gotta be the sole mission of the league.

Just my two cents.

[Bruiser]

Just my two cents.
And therein lies the problem.
Doing it right on paper (or a message board) dont cost a thing.
New franchise fees on the other hand, let you continue
to put food on the table.

[hawkeye]

If you are making a living off of franchise fees (ala the NIFL) and not providing any infastructure which would require monthly or yearly dues (to put food on the table) then you probably are doing it wrong.

It's not a hard concept really...it's kind of like government. But all in all here is what I am trying to say:

1. Teams need to have a performance bond or a letter of credit that can be pulled if they can't fulfill their obligations. This should be first and foremost in every league. The arguement against this is...some teams can't either afford this or they don't have good enough credit. Those are teams that should not be in your league to begin with.

2. Leagues need to follow a budget and use league dues to supplement that budget. Teams don't pay - refer to 1.

3. The league's aim should be to first make the teams within it blueprint organizations (this requires some infastructure) and then to market the league. You also need to look at generating revenues on a league level (more food on the table...or surplus).

4. A league that has teams paying their bills on time, teams thriving, and the league operation doing well should look into adding a couple more teams. Use the blueprint you already have and work with it.

5. If a team can't pay it's bills, can't be a succcess, and won't work (and it does and will happen) then cut them out and pare your budget accordingly. That's one less team you need resources for.


Maybe it's a foreign concept...that's because not many look at it like that. Many start leagues to make money for themselves. Looking for the next place to expand to make more money. It's been done over and over and guess what...IT DOESN'T WORK!!! And when people finally figure that part out only then will we see a league that does work. The league I am working closely with sees this and is working towards accomplishing this. And if they don't...well maybe I should get into the fray.

I guess the word I'd use is paradigm...and unless leagues start looking for new ways to do things they will all end up the way of the NIFL. Once people who start leagues realize that there is more to it than getting rich (which they can be at some point...you don't go from "I started a league" to "Look how rich I am now" in the span of an offseason, a year, or even two years. It has to be done slowly and it HAS TO BE DONE RIGHT.

[Freedom]

I have a dream . . . :)

[hawkeye]

:) Is it too unrealistic? I think it could be reality.

[preeths]

I hope no one would argue your points, hawkeye. One problem we're running into right now is geography. Most of the indoor football leagues are too spread out, hurting not only their teams' travel costs, but muddying the waters for the other leagues as well. Rather than regionalizing, thereby helping everyone, this sport expends too many resources on personality differences, infighting and fruitless attempts to be the dominant league in the country. In the end, all that we get are way too many failed franchises.

The day we stop seeing entire divisions created just to satisfy one franchise is the day we may see progress. Until then, we have to watch pointless territorial battles until most everyone bleeds to death.

Another point I've been meaning to bring up. Here's one problem with a league aspiring to dominate the country. You will make your league a target, and others will pick you apart, pulling away your weak or willing ownership or arena management. Anyone remember what happened to indoor teams in Fort Wayne, Corpus Christi, Laredo and Tri-City last year?

[rams80]

*plays Imperial March*

[IndoorExpert]

I think there are several people here with some good ideas. Again, the ego has been the number one killer of these leagues. It would be nice to see leagues regionalize, but frankly it is unrealistic. Years ago an ownership group could go into an arena and with a moderate plan, get a normal lease. Now, most venues have seen the bad publicity this game has received. Now, it takes an elaborate plan and credentials of a multi-millionare. Most arenas want the whole lease paid up front. How things have changed.

[Freedom]

Not too unrealistic hawkeye, I just wonder if I'll ever see it in my lifetime . . . lol.


Anyone remember what happened to indoor teams in Fort Wayne, Corpus Christi, Laredo and Tri-City last year?

Hmm, . . . . YEAH. :(

[blanketman]

Awesome explaination about the geography element of indoor football.I believe the only way these leagues can truly make it does involve open affilation with one another. Stop this "my league is better thann your league" nonsense.Look at the problems in Austin , they folded and they are in The AFL.The fact is unless your the NFL, everything is suspect.

[chardale]

Austin did not fold, just moving down to save money and stay in region.

[blanketman]

The afl has a fifteen million dollar start up fee they folded in the afl.