CBA questions for the steelheads

[not so fast]

I was wondering, why did Ticknor get rid of a local good person like Renaldo from his staff? Seems like there should be enough room on the staff for a local high school coach icon.

For him not to be a part of the staff is really sad. It appears that loyalty is not a word that is used in that organization.

Ticknor should have went out of his way to keep him on the staff, instead he pushes him out the door.

Its funny how people on this board give certain people a pass on anything they do.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

I don't think Ticknor made the final decision. The Steelheads had three coaches while other teams in the league had only two coaches. Coach Thomas didn't really travel with the team and his presence didn't really sell tickets at home. The owner made the final decision to release him.

Coach Thomas was interested in becoming the head basketball coach at Gary Roosevelt high school anyway (maybe he saw the handwriting on the wall with the Steelheads). He probably would have gotten the high school job too, but he, like so many would-be coaches in the Gary school system need to complete their Education degrees first. Doors will only open-up for them when that task is done.

[not so fast]

Well, I can't believe that firing a local popular high school coach is beneficiary for a team that is always trying to promote ticket sales, and the fact is, if he asked someone to come to watch a game or if ticknor asked someone to attend, who do think in Gary is going to have more of an impact?

I don't think your owner would make that decision with out being pushed by Ticknor. In addition, I have seen teams with two assistant coaches, in fact the NBA has several, and I can't believe they paid him that much.

This stuff in Gary started with former coach Barry Stevens and now has hit a local coach in Gary: (BACKSTABBING)

[Tha Man*]

I thing you are try to make something out of nothing... They let other staff memebers go due to budgetary limitations. I am pretty sure if Coach Thomas was a draw for the Steelheads they would have found away to keep him around. Also, the statement that the NBA has more than 1 assistant coach is unreasonable. CBA has no where near the budgets the NBA has hence the CBA having one assistant coach.

[not so fast]

Well if you think anybody is going to the games to see ticknor you are totally wrong. Also, why not let dale osborne go and keep Thomas, and what if osborne is offered the job in muskegan and leaves gary?

My guess is Thomas was building up good relationships with the players and ticknor felt threatened, and got rid of him. He (ticknor) must really be insecure!

I will say this, the only bad thing about the CBA is there is a click of people (mostly from the west) that are like a pack of sheep, they remind me of the taliban. They all think alike, coach alike, they have agents that are there buddies and they all think and act alike as well.

What the CBA needs is to have more independent coaches and GM's who have a mind of their own.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

I knew Coach Stevens long before he became the Steelheads coach--back when he was just plain ole' Barry. I wanted to see him do well because he lives in Gary, but the bottom line is that the Steelheads are running a business. Business decisions can seem cruel at times, but are necessary for survival.

I have to agree with Tha Man* about drawing fans. Hindsight is 20/20, but I would bet you dollars to Krispy Kremes that if Coach Thomas used his connections with the school system and sold group tickets on a somewhat regular basis, he would still have a job.

Trust me on this one. Fans around here could care less if Coach Thomas is on the bench or not. The fans over 21 are mainly concerned about buying beer before the 4th quarter. The fans under 21 are mainly concerned about stuffing massive amounts of food into their faces before the 4th quarter. EVERYONE wants to see their team win more games than lose though. Nothing else matters much.

[not so fast]

You still seem to be missing the point. doesn't loyalty matter? And did ticknor offer him an opportunity to coach and do sales to save his job? Of course not. And boy are you a company man. I would think you would be a little more concerned about a local solid dedicated citizen of the community, than some carpetbagging outside coach. Maybe you should talk to coach thomas and see how he feels about losing his job, when it did not have to happen.

Secondly, do you think the people of gary follow wins and losses of the steeheads that closely (other than you)?

And I happen to know some college basketball players that live in gary, and for the record coach thomas has had open gyms for them and has allowed them to play, and he does have good relations with people in the community, and you are being naive if you think these people that know him are not bothered by the way he has been treated by ticknor!

I mean I know ken you like your box seats and all, but don't get so caught up in the team and forget the people of gary, someone who has served his community long before a guy like ticknor ever came along, and if it wasn't for the steelhead coaching job, he wouldn't even ride nowhere near gary!!!!!

[Tha Man*]

Thats all I can say... Did someone do sothing to you with the Steelheads organization or what? Basketball decisions across the board are usually done based on the likelyhood of success. Coach Thomas is a great guy, and like I said before, if he was helping bring paying people in the building I am sure they would have found a way to keep him on board. You seemed to be a little too focused on Ticknor as the Head Coach and not the organization as a whole. If you wanted to atack something why don't you question the upper management on why they have no GM in place. And if you really wanna know who made the decision to eliminate full-time positions talk to the management. Coach Thomas wasn't the only one to lose their job there. Their were two other full -time employees that lost their postions who had been there longer and were as equally valuable assets lost!

[not so fast]

Listen tha man, you seemed to be focused on defending Ticknor who could have easily suggested the firing of dale osborne instead of coach thomas, but ticknor did't because he did not like the fact that some of the disgruntled players (that he pissed off) was friends with Thomas.

And in addition, it was well known that ticknor undermined coach stevens, and quit trying to blame management for everything, like ticknor has no say about who his assistant is going to be.

Who paid for ticknor to relocate his whole family to indiana? Coach thomas did with his job!!!!!! Incidently, is ticknor living in Gary?

[Tha Man*]

I am not defending Ticknor at all, no need too. I am trying to figure out why you are so deadset on Coach Tomas and him being the world for you when there are more important things going on like corporate and ticket sales. Coaches are coaches, with out the finacials in place the team would not exist and therefore coaches nor players would be needed, period.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

And boy are you a company man. I would think you would be a little more concerned about a local solid dedicated citizen of the community, than some carpetbagging outside coach.

Company man, Steelheads fan...it's a bit long, but it has a certain ring to it. A certain amount of balance and bizazz too! I think I'll use it, but only on formal occasions. 8)

[not so fast]

tha little man, i don't even know coach thomas, but i do know loyalty, and ticknor has shown none, just ask coach barry stevens (he's still trying to get the knives out his back).


Since "tha little man", you seem to have all this inside information on Gary, tell me why one day on sports tv in chicago, I saw ticknor and Leon Smith in this mutual love fest on an interview, then a few weeks later Leon Smith was playing against gary for the great lakes franchise?

And steelhead fan, you sound like you might be coach thomas replacement, the way you support ticknor!

[Tha Man*]

Well there nothing little about myself and to resort to getting in a pissing match about who stabbed who.. Once again, I defer to talk to the management on how truly things went down in Gary before making assumptions. Yes Leon and Ticknor were on TV together; did you also know that his record for showing up to practice was pretty pathetic? Lets see, try to keep a loose cannon and hope the guy turns up to practice or send him to a team that he may better fit too offensive and defensively. Word of advice using Leon as an escape goat isn't a good idea either; the young man has had many problems he is still trying to over come. In particularly trying to stick with a team, whether it is NBA, CBA, or USBL.

Like I said I dunno what your problem is with the Steelheads management, coaching staff, front office staff or the game day help.But to bash good people based upon theory is ludicris.

[not so fast]

okay, tha big man, lets start with this: I never bashed the staff at gary or front office people, in fact if you check my post from during the season, I was very complimentary of the staff at gary, in addition driving a long way for games there, paying to park, paying for tickets, buying expensive food at the games, but giving much credit to the organization.

Now that being said, I think it should be okay for a fan or anyone who has invested their hard earned money and time (in traffic) to go to games, that, that person or persons has the right to question a management decision or coaches decision. I'm not sure why people think ticknor is above criticism.

It seems tha big man, you certainly are close to ticknor. tell me, are you related to him in any way?

And as for Leon, I know his story thank you very much, in fact I know him. But if you know his past then it seems that people would give him a little more flexibility, and show more patience. And what about Galen Young, what happened to him and what about Silas Mills and Frankie King for that matter ? Didn't Maurice carter leave gary and help Dakota win the CBA championship?

I think these are legitamate questions for the coaches that have never been answered that are fair.

in case ticknor didn't know or you tha big man, there is 24 hour sports radio in Chicago on two stations and believe me, the fans and the media hold the teams and coaches accountable and ask questions and voice their opinion all the time, and thats a part of the business. if ticknor or you can't respond to a few simple questions, then maybe he and you are in the wrong business.

it seems someone should stand up for the little man, which in this case is coach thomas, this guy appears to love gary and all he got for his devotion was the shaft!

Finally for those of you who love to waive the dale osborne flag as well, tell me this: with all of his so called connections and all the players he supposedly knows, did he win the usbl championship? I'm not sure this stuff really matters about coaches knowing players being an advantage, because their are only so many spots on one team. in fact darryl dawkins doesn't have no ties to the CBA or NBDL and just won the championship in the usbl, and joerger who won the CBA championship and knows all these players and has all of these connects, didn't make it to the finals of the usbl. So much for connections!!!

i'm to old school maybe, but in those days, loyalty matters. i mean leo derocher coached the cubs and lost year after year, but he was still my coach and we fans were loyal to him, and dick motta coaches the bulls for years and lost but he was still our coach.

Two things were important back then loyalty and character!!!

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

It seems tha big man, you certainly are close to ticknor. tell me, are you related to him in any way?


Tha Man* may not be related to Coach Ticknor, but I'm sure I am related to Tick...so BACK OFF of my cousin! Well, at least my wife is probably related to Ticknor for sure. She seems to be related to a sizable chunk of the Midwestern population. The month of August is the George Gervin family (another cousin) reunion down in San Antonio. My wife is going, but I told her $60 in advance is a little pricy for a reunion t-shirt. At least while she is down Texas way she can check on Barbara Bush, whom we suspect is another close relative. :wink:

Geezo Pete, not so fast! You really DO miss the confrontations of the old board, don't you? :?

[not so fast]

I do miss the other board but not because of the confrontation, but at least people could say what they felt. Now you have to be so careful not to hurt someone feelings like ticknors or jorgers, but its okay to screw coach thomas, and people like you ken steelheads fan perpetrate this unjustice. And must you copy my quotes for your posts? I mean if you like i will write you a book.

Remember ken , the cubs are losing an the bulls sucks and this means I need to vent a little.

Ken, a question for you. Were you at the game when leon smith dunked and the rim and backboard came down on your mayor?

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

The Cubs are slumping, the Bulls are horrible, and the Gary Southshore Railcats (the team I cheer for during the summer) are perennial losers. I have reason to vent also, so I in-line skate every morning in the Indiana University Northwest parking lot (before the cars get there of course). Does wonders for my disposition.

Yes, I was at the game when Leon Smith brought the entire backboard assembly down almost on top of the mayor. I was also at the game when Leon sat in street clothes with his headset on and listened to music while a basketball game was in progress. Actually, I was amazed that Golden State called him up.

I have some questions for the Steelheads too. Like, why don't you hold the next draft party at Extra Innings Bar & Grill? And like, why is the Rockford Lightning's mascot a big blue raccoon? ...Well, maybe they can't help me with the second question.

[Tha Man*]

Not So Fast -

Relation to Ticknor I am not ... I have lived in Gary, East Chicago, and Griffith. I have been there done that and continue to work in sports for many years, maybe by luck.. But I somehow doubt it. I know the management the front office and even Ken the Steelheads fan by emails at once a upon a time. All the questions about the players, I do not have every answer nor will I ever. . I also know Leon, great player when he shows up mentally to the game. Those are the decisions that are made by coaches based upon skills and love of the game. As far as the players you listed I believe a lot of them left for contracts overseas to make some money.

Although your loyalty lies with Coach Thomas you bash the people that helped bring him in (Ticknor and the Front Office). Once again I will state the obvious fact, if Coach Thomas was an asset to the team they would have found a way to ensure his continued involvement with the team. I also do however believe if a person isn’t carrying his weight or doesn’t bring something to the table to benefit the organization, a re-evaluation is necessary to determine whether that person is a financial asset to have involved with the team. Whatever and wherever you have heard about Ticknor I can't say.. But to base your comments on hearsay is silly. And yes I do know about the radio stations in the area that talk sports.

I understand to earn your money thus you have the right to spend it however you like. But if you disagree with practices that an organization operates by why don't you address the person(s) or organization that the problem occurs with. Venting about loyalty is one mans opinion and not everyone’s. You compare the loyalty of minor league to that of major league sports loyalty. Too many differences to make that work.

As for Coach Dawkins you are sill to think that the all players that were on his 2004 Championship team were hand picked by Coach without any association from the other leagues that play basketball. In the USBL it is whom ever has enough money to pay the players the most money on time gets the best players. Also look into seeing how many of the players in the ValleyDawgs received bonuses for winning the championship game. I can tell you right now the only team that has that kind of bank is Pennsylvania.

[not so fast]

tha big man, you seem to have an awful lot of insider information about the usbl team pennyslvania for a resident of gary. Are you sure you are not ticknor himself?

And all of this long disertation and babble, what the hell are you talking about?

why can't you admit ticknor screwed thomas, players were disenchanted with him, and stop taking cheap shots at Leon Smith, when ticknor was kissing his butt right on TV but when Leon got tired of his coaching (like others) they quit on him.

Thats business, players quit on coaches from time to time and ticknor is no exception. Instead of making him out to be a God, reconize his faults as a coach.

And tell me, how many tickets has ticknor sold Mr. insider??

And finally, quit your crying about bashing the staff, my criticism is directed at one person and one person only! ticknor and his treatment of thomas and his shaky relationship with some players and this Politically correct attitude by some of you about saying something about him or joerger.


Ken, the cubs will shine in 2009!!!!

[Tha Man*]

I am a far cry from Ticknor ... and since you are so dead set on one objective, to discredit Ticknor I will leave you to talk to yourself. You are definately not worth my time. Esp. if you cannot get someones handle correct.

[not so fast]

Tha man, have a great day!!!! Hope to see you at steelheads home opener! I have to drive a couple of hours to get there, but I'll be there whether ticknor is there or not, I'm just a minorleague basketball fan!!!

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

I have a few questions for the Steelheads too. Like, does it mean the yet to be announced 2004 Gary Free Agent camp will actually be free? Or does it mean, "Ken, shut your yap! We might as well get some too while the gettin' is good"? :oops:

[not so fast]

Actually, you would think ticknor would give a look at some of the players from Chicago, gary and northwest indiana. In fact, i would think with Gary being the only CBA team in a state that is known for basketball, they would at at least give the locals a look, even if you didn't sign any. You owe that to your local kids to at least give them a look. But I guess when you are so arrogant, and you pay players under the table, and you fire your local coach (and don't even call him), why waste your time with local college players who just want a honest look?

I'm sure the coaches are much to busy to take a day out to look at local players, I mean heck, golfing, fishing, or running a camp for players (who incidently, will be guys who will more than likely be regular fans at your games)?

I remember the Fort Wayne Fury of the CBA having several camps every year. They understood and appreciated local players and fans!

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

not so fast,
Looks like you may get your wish. The Steelheads new website has a button on the home page for a 2004 Free Agent camp for Gary, but when you click it it does not go to anywhere yet.

Sorry to get you revved-up again! :)

[not so fast]

I have a question, why didn't Lonnie Jones play for his hometown team the Gary Steelheads, and the Milwaukee Bucks now thinks he could make there team?

I mean he played in the USBL, why not the CBA, and he was born in Gary, Graduated from high school in Gary, but wasn't good enough for the Steellheads but good enough for the Milwaukee Bucks?

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

This is scary! I'm becoming one of those know-it-all, done-everything type of people. :?

Yeah, I know Lonnie Jones. I taught at Gary Lew Wallace High School while he was a student there...I'm getting old. Funny you should mention him though because I have the October 2002, Steelheads newsletter right here. This is an excerpt:

Steelheads also take Jones & Grizzard

The Gary Steelheads selected a shot blocker and a big guard with their third and fifth round picks respectively in the recent CBA College Draft.

Lonnie Jones, a Gary native and former Lew Wallace High School and Ball State star, set a BSU record for career blocked shots with 301. He blocked a school season high 89 last season.

They also picked NBA second round selection Rod Grizzard. "I saw Lonnie at the Portsmouth Invitational in April and saw what he can do and I knew he would be a good player for us, " Steelheads' Head coach/Director of Basketball Operations Duane Ticknor said "I didn't know he was from Gary, but that is even better with him being a local product."

The 7-foot Jones is invited to the New Jersey Nets' tryout camp. Grizzard, a 6-foot-8 guard, was the Washington Wizards' second-round pick in the NBA Draft. He was a third team all-SEC selection while averaging 14.1 points and 6.1 rebounds per game for the Crimson Tide. "He has size and is a good ball-handler," Ticknor said of Grizzard. "I know he can score."

"We got quality in the draft."

If my memory serves me correctly, Jones was not drafted higher because Jones had NBA or overseas on his mind. I believe he played overseas that year. This was the same year Dane Fife was drafted #1 for the Steelheads.

The draft party was at Hooters that year. Dane Fife showed-up in person for the announcement. I was there in person too...yeah, I know. Time to get a life. :roll:

...but not before watching my February 28th, Steelheads vs. Rockford tape again. Just can't get enough of that one! :)

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

I would think the Rockford Lightning, October 23rd free agent camp was an ABA run operation if I didn't know any better. First, the Rockford website (complete with misspellings) lists the free agent camp location as a place called East Chicago, IL. East Chicago is in Indiana on Gary's western border. Second, according to the Gary Post-Tribune, this Rockford free agent camp has been moved to downtown Gary, Indiana (less than a block away from the Genesis Center where the Steelheads play). How tacky! :roll:

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

By the way, the Gary Post-Tribune printed a correction on the location of the Rockford October 23rd free agent camp. The paper stated that the camp was moved back to East Chicago, Indiana from downtown Gary...same difference though. East Chicago and Gary are neighboring communities. What would the Rockford Lightning organization be doing there anyway?

By the way, the Rockford website no longer mentions the existance of a free agent camp scheduled for the 23rd of October--location: Gary's backyard. Maybe someone had second thoughts about the idea. Maybe it was all just my imagination. :roll:

Instead of playing one-up-manship games, the Rockford and Steelheads organizations need to cooperate during these uncertain economic times.