Why The Rochester Raiders Would Beat The Storm

[blanketman]

1.Raiders are the highest paid players outside of AFL averaging close to 400 per game per player. Storm players makes 225 a game, if they win.
2.Raiders have 12 1A players,4 1aa all americans,and 5 all americans from div2 and 3.Storm has 4 1A Players, and a ton from div2,3. 3.Raiders beat a great Port Huron that was 26-0 by ten points; Storm beat Lexington,a 10-7 team, on last second 4th down pass. 4.Raiders have bigger lines averaging 6 5 315 on offense;Storm line is small at 6 2.5 280. 5.Raiders secondary is fast, all players are 4.4 with Chris Shaw at 4.2.Storm was destroyed by Mulder in the special teams kickoff, because only Jones who is 5 5 runs a sub 4.5. 6.Raiders know they wont play them because for some strange reason, this league has coronated themselves the best.

[CBlack]

What a joke.

You'd think after all these years the Storm would have finally proved that teamwork beats individual stats every time. I guess following your logic the Raiders should beat the Patriots every year?

[blanketman]

Raiders have teamwork, that is why we beat the pirates.Remember those guys, they went undefeated in 2003 as the Ohio valley greyhounds.Same guys just 28 years old with alot more indoor experience.Did the Storm WIN THE NIFL whe it was the true premier league, as it was then in 2003?Raiders have put the call into DAKOTA, HE WONT ANSWER.

[blanketman]

These guys terrorized the same league the Storm was in between 2002/2004.A Shane ,Shawn,Ed led Ohio Valley team was 37-4 with 2 Indoor Championships in the NIFL,WHEN IT AS GREAT,while your great Sioux Falls Storm team was 29-14 with zero championships .You never beat those guys, we did.

[IndoorExpert]

Another United Bowl and another victory for the Storm. During halftime, Dakota Crow spoke again as if he were a member of the Sioux Falls Storm organization and against Lexington. Isnt he supposed to be the Executive Director for the league, and not speaking out for his beloved team. Did he have to make it so obvious?

When the UIF started with Dakota Crow as its Executive Director, every owner should have protested. Some did, but they were not successful. The Storm have a great team and there is no denying that, but they also get away with breaking more rules than any other team. Their owner has deep pockets and players are paid what they should be paid, but not what the league states in its by laws. Just find a player who is not returning to their organization and view their contract. I commend the Storm and the streak they are on, but the Executive Director is a fraud. Back in the day he posted his bio and very little on it was actually true. Way to go Sioux Falls for buying your own personal Executive Director. With such fallacies, this is what makes the UIF not as premier as they claim.

This is what is wrong with indoor football. Every league has another ego thinking it can do it better than the next person. PIFL, IPFL, IFL, NIFL, APFL, UIFA, CIFL, IFL (Texas), AIFA, and WIFL. Isnt this enough egos and not enough legitimacy. All leagues have the good the bad and the ugly. What needs to happen is making a national league with television deals. There is no money to be made in these leagues without a television audience. The upper level teams have large budgets and barely and sometimes dont break even. I have grown wary of any of these teams across the country. The security of the state of the game is not very good.

The rules of the indoor game is so much better than the AFL patent. If Carolyn Shiver wasnt such a fool, she could have cornered the market back in 2003 and 2004 and killed the competition. Now look at what has become of the once great league. The UIF is just the NIFL with another ego and another name. The one thing they have done is scrutinize the ownership groups which does help teams survive through the season. Does that make it premier? No. Look at Rapid City whose owner was not willing to spend the money and folded. Look at Tupelo, same scenario. Look at Peoria, and now Evansville, and rumor has it several other teams. The UIF is taking in a APFL team in Wichita who has a good name on the application, but where are they going to succeed. I know we all have our opinions, but lets at least be honest with each other about the state of the game.

Congratulations to the Sioux Falls Storm, and it doesnt look like anyone will be catching them soon in that league.

[cRUSHer]

What I noticed about IndoorEXpert.

His posts read exactly like EXit322

I'm not saying , I'm just saying.

[Geoff]

Experts should know that they need to post citations. What exactly wasn't ture in Crow's biography and where's the proof?

[preeths]

What I noticed about IndoorEXpert.

His posts read exactly like EXit322

I'm not saying , I'm just saying.

Nope, they're different people. Most here know who exit322 is.

[exit322]

What I noticed about IndoorEXpert.

His posts read exactly like EXit322

I'm not saying , I'm just saying.

You would say that. Luckily, most people are smart enough to know that I will say what I need to say from this username. Though I do agree with a lot of what IE says, if I wanted to say it, I'd have said it myself.

But s/he is right - if Shiver had anyone to corral her (like her sister Tina, R.I.P.), the UIF wouldn't be here. The UIF was formed because the teams wanted to take Shiver and her cronies out (or the AF2 and its cronies, in a couplea cases)...and it didn't work. Too many people I've talked to that have said "and when Shiver didn't let them back in to have control, they all wondered 'what to do, I guess we'll have to actually do this'."

The fact that the UIF might be just as poorly run as any other indoor league doesn't mean that Sioux Falls isn't one of, if not the, best teams that the sport has ever seen. The fact that the UIF is at risk to lose a third or more of its teams doesn't make Sioux Falls' accomplishment any less "wow" worthy. The Storm are a great team. But the UIF is not all that great a league.

I don't know that Crow is a Storm fan. I don't think Crow's done a very good job at all at his post, but I don't think he's a Storm fan. Sioux Falls is just that good a team, that they were able to come back and win a game that they by all rights should have lost.

I'll say this - I would put Sioux Falls 2007 as the #1 indoor team of all time (2003 OV as #2, 2006 SF as #3).

[preeths]

IndoorExpert, the Wichita Wild were not part of the APFL. No league will ever be able to prevent teams from folding. This is the minor leagues, and it will happen. The best any league can do, and what UIF has done, is to make certain the games are played. The league just completed another season playing all their games. Your NIFL comparison is way off base and sounds like it is personally motivated by your dislike of Crow.

[IndoorFan]

1.Raiders are the highest paid players outside of AFL averaging close to 400 per game per player. Storm players makes 225 a game, if they win.
2.Raiders have 12 1A players,4 1aa all americans,and 5 all americans from div2 and 3.Storm has 4 1A Players, and a ton from div2,3. 3.Raiders beat a great Port Huron that was 26-0 by ten points; Storm beat Lexington,a 10-7 team, on last second 4th down pass. 4.Raiders have bigger lines averaging 6 5 315 on offense;Storm line is small at 6 2.5 280. 5.Raiders secondary is fast, all players are 4.4 with Chris Shaw at 4.2.Storm was destroyed by Mulder in the special teams kickoff, because only Jones who is 5 5 runs a sub 4.5. 6.Raiders know they wont play them because for some strange reason, this league has coronated themselves the best.You should research a little bit before you post...There are several teams throughout the UIF with rosters exactly like the one you described for Rochester, and SF has had no problem getting past them. The Lex team played the regular season without QB Eddie Eviston, and struggled some in the regular season, but Eddie returned for the playoffs, and with him in the pocket, Lex is a totally different team(Yes, he's that good). I have never seen Rochester play, but I have watched the O.V. teams of '03 & '04. They were very good teams, and SF is just as good as O.V. ever was.

[IndoorExpert]

Let me respond to some of the quotes that I have read............

In regards to the Wichita Wild (formerly the Wichita Aviators who refused to play the championship game of the APFL because of a league venue change), look it up and see if McCoy and Coach Caldwell are the same individuals as the Aviators core group. All they did is find someone to fill out the financial statement. They are currently playing an independent indoor schedule against semi-pro teams. This doesnt sound like a premier league move. This sounds like what every other indoor league has gone through when teams start looking for greener pastures. They begin to lower their standards to keep division alignments intact.

The UIF has played all of their games and I absolutely give my upmost respect for that. There are several minor leagues that play all of their games and do not call themselves the premier league (see minor league hockey and baseball). I think we are pointing our fingers at the NIFL because of their recent problems. At one point they were the premier league, but that reign is over. The UIF deals with the same problems the rest of the minor leagues deal with, but they are very professional in the fact that they keep it out of the media. Again, I do think the UIF is one of the better minor leagues in the country right now. They just dont have any other ownership groups that can sustain the level of play Sioux Falls has grown accustom to. I do not see anyone beating the Storm anytime soon.

My post in regards to Dakota Crow is that of reliable information. In 2003 and 2004 Dakota Crow worked for the Sioux Falls Storm. Storm President Colin Steen and owner are his close personal friends. The Storm have on record been caught with numerous by-law infractions, but Dakota Crow always lets them off with a slap on the hand. In 2005 two owners who are not in the UIF any longer petitioned to the league due to the fact that Dakota Crows office was in the Sioux Falls Storms offices. Clearly a huge conflict of interest that had one of the winningest and highly respected coaches in the league state that he would no longer be a part of a league that operated in such a manner and subsequently his former team left as well. In regards to his past bio that stated he worked for several professional sports teams around the country, it was all lies. I know the individual that followed up on his bio and came up empty. He was handed the job by the Sioux Falls Storm who were instrumental in creating the UIF. The Sioux Falls Storm has a great ownership group and has the money to dominate (including having the executive director in their pocket). I will say this for that organization, they are doing everything an organization should do to stay on top. Again, nothing but respect for them.

That leaves me to the question of fairness to the leagues. We all know that the teams with the highest payrolls win championships. No different then what George Steinbrenner does with the Yankees. In the MLB this is legal and within the confines of the by-laws as they are in one of the largest markets. In indoor football this is illegal and outside of the leagues by-laws. Isnt it your job as Commissioner/Executive Director to make sure teams are abidding by the laws. David Baker of the Arena Football League runs a very tight ship and teams are forced to abide by the rules or accept the punishment. That sounds premier to me. Again, the Storm are on a great run, but fairness is another thing. As a player this is the organization to play for.

As far as having posts sound like exit 322, I do not know that individual. I enjoy reading some of his comments because he speaks intelligently. I am an independent writer that has been involved in indoor football since its inception back in 1998. I do see we have a lot of bias in regards to who the best league is.

[IndoorExpert]

Preeths, what about my NIFL comparison do you not agree with? Also, look into the Wichita Aviators (APFL 2006) and Wichita Wild (UIF 2008) and see how many comparisons you find. I would love to hear your report. I have no outright dislike for Dakota Crow, I just dont like hearing the premier comment, and I know how he got his job. There was several leagues that made indoor football what it is prior to the UIF. The UIF took the NIFL patent and made the legal amount of changes to the patent to make its rules. How would that make them the premier league when they are a copycat league? Again, I do respect some of what the league has done, but this off-season will be quite interesting..............

[preeths]

Wichita Aviators were APFL, Wichita Wild are not. The NIFL has no patent worth any more than the paper it is printed on and never has. They have a rulebook with a copyright which, like any copyrighted material, cannot be reproduced by others without their permission. You can play largely the same game, however, and that's why the Arena league had to settle with the PIFL and why the NIFL can't keep anyone from playing indoor football... except its own teams, that is, and they've done a pretty good job of that as of late.

[IndoorExpert]

Wichita Aviators were APFL, Wichita Wild are not. The NIFL has no patent worth any more than the paper it is printed on and never has. They have a rulebook with a copyright which, like any copyrighted material, cannot be reproduced by others without their permission. You can play largely the same game, however, and that's why the Arena league had to settle with the PIFL and why the NIFL can't keep anyone from playing indoor football... except its own teams, that is, and they've done a pretty good job of that as of late.


The Wichita Wild is the new name of the former team the Wichita Aviators. Examples: Dayton Warbirds-Dayton Bulldogs, Sioux Falls Cobras-Sioux Falls Storm, Black Hills Machine-Rapid City Red Dogs, Billings Mavericks-Billings Outlaws, Peoria Pirates-Peoria Roughriders, etc.

As to the NIFL, they have lost their whole grip on the game. They do have a patent on the rule book. I am not saying that it means anything, just stating that the game was designed before the UIF. The first indoor leagues took the Canadian Football League book and changed it to fit the 50 yard field. The APFL owns the rights to the IPFL rule patent which is identical to the NIFL game. That being said, no league has exalted the game of indoor football to premier status until it has a tv deal and the salaries go up.

[exit322]

The Wild is a new organization. The Aviators were owned by Ralph Adams (owner of the Koyotes and APFL). Take my word for it...the faces might be the same, but the person that rules the roost is not. They are not the same organization - but it's not hard to see why people think they are.

[chardale]

Nashville kats and of course Austin gone, Kats are calling it quit's. And now that Lex is leaving and Evansville shutting it's door's. AND O.V for sale and rummered to be going AIFA, What is the state of the UIF? And Peroria back as A2 Pirates,,,Humm Also heard from Bonecrushers ownership they felt that CIFl was a better fit for them. Dont worry UIF you are not missing anything from them not being in your league. No money.

[blanketman]

Indoor fan aswer this question,has the sioux falls storm won a championship outside the uif?....NO.They started their own league.Made a past employee the commissioner.Then overpaid past legal contracts to win championships.By the way,franzer one 2 nifl championships to sf 0.HOW can you say a 10-7 TEAM was an unbelievable win.OH YEH BECAUSE EDDIE WAS IN THE BIG LEAGUE TAKING NO PRISONERS....CAN YOU SAY AF2.

[preeths]

As to the NIFL, they have lost their whole grip on the game. They do have a patent on the rule book. I am not saying that it means anything, just stating that the game was designed before the UIF. The first indoor leagues took the Canadian Football League book and changed it to fit the 50 yard field. The APFL owns the rights to the IPFL rule patent which is identical to the NIFL game. That being said, no league has exalted the game of indoor football to premier status until it has a tv deal and the salaries go up.

No, you don't patent a rulebook. You protect printed material with a copyright. Other leagues can still use the same rules for the most part, they just can't copy your rulebook. It's the same as going down to the library and making a copy of an entire book. You can't legally do that if it has been protected by copyright. This has been a point of confusion for way too long. Similarly, there is no IPFL rule patent, and the APFL owns no such thing. Dick Suess, founder of the PIFL, assigned one of his unenforceable patents to Carolyn Shiver. Trust me, I go all the way back with some of these people and have seen the vast majority of the documentation.

[blanketman]

Exit ,your thinking is flawed.First of all ,when ov won back to back the best players in the country were tied to the nifl.How could you say sf is so great when they barely beat a 10-7 team.SF shows how slow they are on special teams and in the secondary.Rochester beat franzer and company on speed and strength. They would man handle the slow guys from up north.UIF, like the cifl are regional leagues.For this reason a unified championship series would stop all this crap speculation.Rochester 54-Sf 34.But will never know because Crow would not take the challenge.

[Freedom]

UIF, like the cifl are regional leagues.For this reason a unified championship series would stop all this crap speculation.

A game is not needed to stop this crap speculation. You just need to step away from your keyboard.

Problem solved. :)

[IndoorExpert]

No, you don't patent a rulebook. You protect printed material with a copyright. Other leagues can still use the same rules for the most part, they just can't copy your rulebook. It's the same as going down to the library and making a copy of an entire book. You can't legally do that if it has been protected by copyright. This has been a point of confusion for way too long. Similarly, there is no IPFL rule patent, and the APFL owns no such thing. Dick Suess, founder of the PIFL, assigned one of his unenforceable patents to Carolyn Shiver. Trust me, I go all the way back with some of these people and have seen the vast majority of the documentation.

Again, I go way back with some of these individuals also. This was not intended to be a legal discussion. The NIFL does have a legal patent on their game "system." I have seen it. I also know how the UIF took the game system and made (I believe it was 13-14 small changes) to create the rulebook for the UIF. I do not care about the legal aspect of the rulebooks and do not care who uses what system. All I am saying is the game itself makes it premier, not the alphabet soup of names that have come and gone. I have also seen a vast majority of documentation. I also know the vast majority of undermining that has gone on in each of the leagues to discredit the others, and that doesnt bother me either. The only thing that concerns me is the indoor game itself. How with all of the egos and backstabbing can the game continue and gain national prominence.

[Freedom]

It's just a word describing the league, what's the big deal?

And out of the indoor leagues at this time, I think the UIF is the one who should be using it. They have backed up what they said they would do. Remain small, play all their games, no forfeit or cancellations, pay the players, provide good entertainment and so on.

As said previously, all leagues have their issues including the UIF. But until someone else can do everything better than the U, premier works just fine for them.

JMHO . . .

[IndoorFan]

Indoor fan aswer this question,has the sioux falls storm won a championship outside the uif?....NO.They started their own league.Made a past employee the commissioner.Then overpaid past legal contracts to win championships.By the way,franzer one 2 nifl championships to sf 0.HOW can you say a 10-7 TEAM was an unbelievable win.OH YEH BECAUSE EDDIE WAS IN THE BIG LEAGUE TAKING NO PRISONERS....CAN YOU SAY AF2.The Sioux Falls Storm lost to Lexington in the '04 NIFL championship game, so they were right there before the UIF came along. OH, by the way....That Lexington team was the team that ended O.V.'s run, and all 3 teams became part of the UIF. So to think the UIF was built so SF had doormats for other teams so they could win championships is crazy!! The overpay thing, I agree with. You can talk all you want about how slow the SF defense is, but if the game ever happened....make sure your QB's on his horse, because when Fluit & Murphy come from the ends, the db's can be as slow as they want....the pass won't get out of the QB's hand..I know your team, and league have players as well. I never said the SF win was unbelievable, those are your words. I simply said Lex is a much better team with Eviston, not because he played AF2, or anywhere else, It's because he's one of the better QB's to ever play indoor football..period. Why are you so bent out of shape about challenge games? They make zero sense to all leagues involved. Your team won a championship over a very good football team, enjoy it!!!

[preeths]

No, the NIFL does not have a patent on its game system. It has patents on nets above the field of play and its dashboard bingo game. I know what the NIFL has claimed in the past, and it does not jibe with reality. I do care about the legal distinctions because they are important, and the confusion surrounding them has festered far too long. "13-14 small changes" just about describes the differences between any of these leagues. The PIFL modified the AFL game, the NIFL modified the IPFL's game, etc. The biggest difference among the indoor leagues (i.e. what might make one "premier") is how they are run.

[Freedom]

The Sioux Falls Storm lost to Lexington in the '04 NIFL championship game, so they were right there before the UIF came along. OH, by the way....That Lexington team was the team that ended O.V.'s run, and all 3 teams became part of the UIF. So to think the UIF was built so SF had doormats for other teams so they could win championships is crazy!! The overpay thing, I agree with. You can talk all you want about how slow the SF defense is, but if the game ever happened....make sure your QB's on his horse, because when Fluit & Murphy come from the ends, the db's can be as slow as they want....the pass won't get out of the QB's hand..I know your team, and league have players as well. I never said the SF win was unbelievable, those are your words. I simply said Lex is a much better team with Eviston, not because he played AF2, or anywhere else, It's because he's one of the better QB's to ever play indoor football..period. Why are you so bent out of shape about challenge games? They make zero sense to all leagues involved. Your team won a championship over a very good football team, enjoy it!!!

Just for clarification purposes, Fort Wayne ended OV's run . . . ;)

Carry on . . . :)

[IndoorFan]

Just for clarification purposes, Fort Wayne ended OV's run . . . ;)

Carry on . . . :) Your right....my mistake:p But it was Lex that knocked them out of the playoffs, and their bid for another championship, so if I word it differently, are we both right?:D

[IndoorExpert]

No, the NIFL does not have a patent on its game system. It has patents on nets above the field of play and its dashboard bingo game. I know what the NIFL has claimed in the past, and it does not jibe with reality. I do care about the legal distinctions because they are important, and the confusion surrounding them has festered far too long. "13-14 small changes" just about describes the differences between any of these leagues. The PIFL modified the AFL game, the NIFL modified the IPFL's game, etc. The biggest difference among the indoor leagues (i.e. what might make one "premier") is how they are run.


Then it is very clear who the premier league is. The AFL is the premier league. The af2 being run and operated by the premier league is being run the best of lower level leagues. The IFL and UIF have played all of their games which leads them to be second tier indoor leagues. The CIFL and AIFA due to team ownership troubles and semi-pro team substitute games will take up the third tier leagues. The APFL has done a good job of just keeping their league going so we will say fourth tier league.

I think a few leagues and different rules is very good for the game. I feel that there are to many copycat leagues at this time doing about the same thing. Those leagues should put their egos aside and build a solid league that will stand the test of time. The problem that exists is minor league sports is not a huge money maker. Owners without deep pockets continue to find out this game is for those with deep pockets, a successful business model, and a need for a tax write-off. The ownership groups are the key to any league surviving for the long haul.

I am not in anyway biased towards any league, I have been involved with many of them. I am part of an ownership group that wants a team in the right league. I enjoy hearing from the diverse nature of these message boards, and hearing all of the different facts we all supposedly have.

[preeths]

I think you're getting way too hung up on this "premier" thing. It's a marketing word that is at worst arguable. The AFL and af2 are not considered indoor leagues, but arena leagues, and you can make a good argument that UIF is at the top of the heap of all the indoor leagues. The IFL and AIFA also played all their games, but UIF has done it longer than AIFA and has a bigger geographic footprint than the IFL. I would hope that no one's feathers are ruffled by the use of the word "premier."

[IndoorExpert]

While Storm continue to win, league gets closer to parity
By matt zimmer
mzimmer@argusleader.com
Published: August 10, 2007

With their dramatic 62-59 win over Lexington on Saturday, the Storm completed their third straight UIF championship, their second straight perfect season, and their 38th consecutive win.

A sellout crowd of 4,907 shook the Arena all night long, while bars all over the city were packed full of more fans watching on TV.

It was all the team could ask for.

But what about the rest of United Indoor Football?

While all the teams appreciate the Storm's streak on some level for the notoriety it brings the league, isn't it possible that the longer the streak continues, the more the league's credibility suffers? And at what point does the winning become stale? Would it benefit the team and its fans to lose a few in the interest of spicing things up?

Most of the Storm's opponents view the juggernaut they have built as both a model and a challenge, rather than a detriment to their league.

It seems that while everyone agrees that closer games and more parity is a good thing, the Storm are not in any position to have to apologize for their success.

"It's my job to win games," says Storm coach Kurtiss Riggs. "It's the other teams' responsibility to close the gap and compete with us. We've been fortunate to win a lot of games, and I'm sure the league would like to see us lose a few games to establish a little more parity. But I would never say that winning is a bad thing."

The Storm's 38-game winning streak is a little deceiving, as they've had plenty of close calls along the way. It's not as though they are totally untouchable. They're ahead of the rest of the league, but they're not completely out of view.

"I think the playoffs showed that there is parity," said UIF commissioner Dakota Crow. "We won't apologize for the Storm; they're a great team who've earned their success - but we've got a lot of great teams in our league that are all getting better. Bloomington had the lead against Sioux Falls at halftime, and Lexington outplayed them the whole game in the championship. I hear more and more each week that teams and coaches are really gunning for them and looking at them as a challenge."

That's really the only choice the league's other 10 teams have. Dropping out of the league or pushing for some sort of changes to bring Sioux Falls down a notch wouldn't send a very positive message to players or fans, so the rest of the league has resorted to simply acknowledging the Storm's greatness and aiming to destroy it.

"We have a lot of talent on this team right now, but Sioux Falls obviously has more," says Billings Outlaws coach Heron O'Neal. "And Sioux Falls has more depth. Between now and February, we'll go out and get the talent and depth we need. We're not far away from having what Sioux Falls has."

That's what everyone, including the Storm, wants to hear. The league aims to improve its talent level each year, and most agree that has happened in the UIF's first three seasons.

"You need the competition to make you credible, and I think it's gotten better each year," says Storm president and general manager Colin Steen. "I think we've set a standard, and I hope the other teams look at us and say, 'We need to be at that level.' We want stability with all our teams."

There's no denying that the Storm's rabid fan base has been spoiled over the past three years, which was evident in the environment the back-and-forth, downto-the-wire United Bowl created. That's what fans want to see.

"I love to see us win, and I love the streak," said Josh Jurgens, a Section 'O' regular at Storm games. "But I would like to see closer games more often. There are always a few games where you're like, 'OK, it's the third quarter and we're up 50-3, let's go somewhere else.'"

Crow believes that as the other franchises get more experience under their belt, that will happen less and less.

"It's going to get harder and harder for Sioux Falls to keep the streak going," Crow said. "We have a lot of teams in their third or fourth year that are really doing some good things. They're improving off the field, and I believe they'll continue to improve on it."

State of the league
Crow says the UIF will continue to take a cautious approach to expansion. A Wichita, Kan., franchise is very close to becoming official for the 2008 season, while the Wyoming Cavalry, one of the last credible franchises left from the now-disastrous National Indoor Football League, is strongly considering a move to the UIF.

Crow says several teams, including possibly two in North Dakota, are being worked on for 2009, while the Tri-City Diesel, a former NIFL franchise based out of Kearney, Neb., is looking into the UIF after being dormant for the last two seasons.

"I think you'll see modest growth for '08 and potentially aggressive growth for 2009," Crow said. "Our first few expansion cities have worked exceptionally, and we're continuing to look out East so the teams out there don't feel abandoned."

The Evansville Bluecats franchise has been shut down and put up for sale. Crow hopes to relocate the team to avoid folding it, but either way there will not be indoor football in Evansville next year. The Ohio Valley franchise is also for sale after a 2-13 season that drew barely 1,000 fans a game. Steen says that jobs lost in the mining industry in the Greyhounds home city of Wheeling, W. Va., has severely affected the city's population, which has in turn ruined a once strong indoor fan base.

"We don't want to see teams go dormant," Crow said. "We're looking for owners and doing everything we can to move these teams somewhere that it can work. Some markets just play themselves out. It's unfortunate but it happens."

[Bouncer_Texxx]

My post in regards to Dakota Crow is that of reliable information. In 2003 and 2004 Dakota Crow worked for the Sioux Falls Storm.
WRONG
2003-2005 The Storm employed Crow's precious Fans 4 Life as their merchandiser. F4L was poorly ran and were kicked to the curb mid season 05


Storm President Colin Steen and owner are his close personal friends.

Ha.. yeah ask Colin about "Dakota" some day... I have, you'd change your tune

The Storm have on record been caught with numerous by-law infractions, but Dakota Crow always lets them off with a slap on the hand.
[quote]
In 2005 two owners who are not in the UIF any longer petitioned to the league due to the fact that Dakota Crows office was in the Sioux Falls Storms offices.

See the above.

Clearly a huge conflict of interest that had one of the winningest and highly respected coaches in the league state that he would no longer be a part of a league that operated in such a manner and subsequently his former team left as well. In regards to his past bio that stated he worked for several professional sports teams around the country, it was all lies. I know the individual that followed up on his bio and came up empty. He was handed the job by the Sioux Falls Storm who were instrumental in creating the UIF. The Sioux Falls Storm has a great ownership group and has the money to dominate (including having the executive director in their pocket). I will say this for that organization, they are doing everything an organization should do to stay on top. Again, nothing but respect for them.


She who doesn't call the bluff doesn't take the pot.. it works in poker, and it worked out for the UIF. The NIflle spiraled out of control after the 05 split. and the UIF has over that same stretch done rather well.

Accusations have been leveled against the Storm's players.. no one can prove it. Here's what i know...

1. Storm Player game checks are $200
2. Storm players live for free in the housing provided by the team or receive a comparable stipend.
3. the Storm gets them jobs
4. Numerous sponsors ensure the guys don't go hungry
5. Avera Sports institute is a world class facility that the players have access to

All of the above is legal and allowed under UIF's current rules.

No one beats the Storm anytime soon?? tell that to Omaha, Rock River, Billings, or Lexington. All led into the 3rd quarters of their games IN SIOUX FALLS no less...except Billing which took the Storm to OT in Billings

[Bouncer_Texxx]

Anyone Else smell Bacon?

[exit322]

Honestly, no, I don't.

I do think the UIF was originally designed as a power play to get Shiver to let them have more control in the NIFL, but when it became clear she wasn't going to do that they had to go their own way.

Obviously, it worked out for the five teams that are left from that time.

[cRUSHer]

Anyone Else smell Bacon?

Of course , I said so a few days ago.
In a thread called United Bowl III. :cool:

Some expert. Maybe an expert in using
Mr Crow as a whipping post. But thats it.

Truth is no one(outside the NIFL) has made
the stupid mistakes the af2 front office has made ,
so it only makes sense to try and throw the spotlight elsewhere.

It's like when someone passes gas and blames the dog. :lol:

[cRUSHer]

IndoorExpert, the Wichita Wild were not part of the APFL. No league will ever be able to prevent teams from folding. This is the minor leagues, and it will happen. The best any league can do, and what UIF has done, is to make certain the games are played. The league just completed another season playing all their games. Your NIFL comparison is way off base and sounds like it is personally motivated by your dislike of Crow.

Dude , you nailed it. Kudos . over and over.

Why else would 13 out of 14 current posts
be in the UIF section and not spread evenly
across the entire Indoor/Arena pantheon.

preeths you rule(literallyand figuratively)
can I hang out with you?

[exit322]

Honestly, to get back on topic, Rochester would fare much better in the arena-style rules, like the AF2 or WIFL. Port Huron has the best chance to win in the UIF of the CIFL teams (assuming paid/practice/etc).

[blanketman]

Look at the game film of Jamil Porter.He was un stoppable.Mike mik had 54 tds and 5 ints.Buffalo Bills have a tryout set in 2 weeks.He seperated his shoulder against ph.

[IndoorExpert]

Dude , you nailed it. Kudos . over and over.

Why else would 13 out of 14 current posts
be in the UIF section and not spread evenly
across the entire Indoor/Arena pantheon.

preeths you rule(literallyand figuratively)
can I hang out with you?


You heard it first here on the OSC, I am apologizing for my rant of the UIF. I am a huge fan of a few teams in the league and support the league by paying to see webcast games. I do think there is a few fraudulent individuals involved with the league, but I guess which league doesnt. I wish them the best in the future. I do think change is coming for the league and this will turn into one of the smaller leagues. Men will be men, egos will be egos, and this is just another example of the indoor football turmoil. I do not want to come off as having a personal vendetta against Mr. Crow or the UIF. I do think they are one of the better lower level leagues.

There is a lot of misconception about the UIF and their beginning. A new league was discussed privately by owners at the 2003 league meetings, during the 2004 league meetings in Las Vegas Carolyn Shiver caused the final separation when she allowed Everett and Tri-Cities in. In the vote to allow the teams in the league, the teams in Washington were not voted in by the owners, it should have been a done deal by owners votes. Carolyn Shiver being the great business woman she is, vetoed the owners vote and allowed them in anyways due to her own agenda. Owners in the Mid-west did not want to fly to Washington or for that matter bus that far. The original owners wanted to keep the league a "Bus League". That evening the discussions begun again about the new league. Within a few weeks after the league meetings, the UIF was born. They hand picked the original teams which was a great set of teams, minus a couple. Wyoming was not voted in the league, I feel was a mistake. That started the wave of defections by owners from leagues that we see today. Now, after every season, owners are courted by other leagues, and teams defect. There is no governing body. That is why the off-seasons have turned into a soap opera and national prominence has been lost (why I believe some form of unification is necessary for the support to prosper).

I am excited to see the usual frenzy has begun. Teams courted by the other leagues, rumors, closed operations, and the hope for new teams in new markets. Dont get me wrong, I love indoor football. I keep dreaming of a unified league. Where egos were put aside to make money, and titles were just that, titles nothing more.

[IndoorExpert]

2003-2005 The Storm employed Crow's precious Fans 4 Life as their merchandiser. F4L was poorly ran and were kicked to the curb mid season 05

Accusations have been leveled against the Storm's players.. no one can prove it. Here's what i know...

1. Storm Player game checks are $200
2. Storm players live for free in the housing provided by the team or receive a comparable stipend.
3. the Storm gets them jobs
4. Numerous sponsors ensure the guys don't go hungry
5. Avera Sports institute is a world class facility that the players have access to

All of the above is legal and allowed under UIF's current rules.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________


Some of what you say is true. If you think that the players are paid $200.00 a game, you are fooling yourself. 2-4 is very true and those are not rules infractions. It is normal practice for teams to pay top talent extra money. I am not saying I agree or disagree, just that it is a rules infraction based on the by-laws. A top-tier league upholds all of their rules and by-laws or they vote to change them or get rid of them in the off-season.

[exit322]

If the team can find sponsors that will employ players to give them a "de facto" football salary that's higher than $200/game - assuming the players do the fair work for fair pay for these sponsors - then I'm all all all for it.

[IndoorExpert]

If the team can find sponsors that will employ players to give them a "de facto" football salary that's higher than $200/game - assuming the players do the fair work for fair pay for these sponsors - then I'm all all all for it.


A company sponsorship is one thing. There are players paid by organizations for advertising and events. Most top level players are offered the additional game pay by the organization, not a company for advertising purposes.

[cRUSHer]

A game is not needed to stop this crap speculation. You just need to step away from your keyboard.

Problem solved. :)

In a word .... nice 8)

[rams80]

2003-2005 The Storm employed Crow's precious Fans 4 Life as their merchandiser. F4L was poorly ran and were kicked to the curb mid season 05

Accusations have been leveled against the Storm's players.. no one can prove it. Here's what i know...

1. Storm Player game checks are $200
2. Storm players live for free in the housing provided by the team or receive a comparable stipend.
3. the Storm gets them jobs
4. Numerous sponsors ensure the guys don't go hungry
5. Avera Sports institute is a world class facility that the players have access to

All of the above is legal and allowed under UIF's current rules.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________


Some of what you say is true. If you think that the players are paid $200.00 a game, you are fooling yourself. 2-4 is very true and those are not rules infractions. It is normal practice for teams to pay top talent extra money. I am not saying I agree or disagree, just that it is a rules infraction based on the by-laws. A top-tier league upholds all of their rules and by-laws or they vote to change them or get rid of them in the off-season.

So I guess the af2 isn't top tier then....

[phydeaux72]

So I guess the af2 isn't top tier then....

The same would apply to the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, MLS, AFL, UFC, WWE, NAACP, XYZ, PDQ, etc.

No professional league upholds 100% of their rules and regs.