ABA Venues

[BBall Fan]

I find it a bit (okay a lot) humorous when I read the latest ABA news articles. It seems that ALL of the 734 expansion teams are still looking for a venue or "negotiating" with venues for next season.

We are almost in July and it seems that not too many of the expansion teams could be considered "firm" for next season. Knowing that, here is how I see the ABA timeline for the upcoming season:

Aug. 14 - Last of the expansion teams announced
Sep. 5 - Schedule Released (25 teams)
Sep. 13 - 3 teams go on hiatus until next year due to venue problems
Sep. 17 - Schedule re-released (22 teams)
Oct. 9 - 2 more teams mysteriously disappear. Schedule modified but no announcement is made.
Nov. 12 - Season starts. Oddly enough, only 15 teams start the season. No explanation
Nov. 23 - 3 teams are looking for new venues and play all games on road
Dec. 1 - 2 teams fold, citing lack of attendance and not enough time. "They'll be back next season" promises Joe Newman.
Dec. 23 - Two weeks off for all teams during Christmas/New Years
Jan. 4 - Year end tournament moved from March to Mid-January due to "unbeleivable TV and sponsorship opportunities".

Just another season in the ABA!!! :oops:

[Houston Caldwell]

Don't know about the others,but the Nashville Rhythm has their arena lined up--- Lipscomb University's Allen Arena,a beautiful boutique mid-major Division 1 basketball facility that is about 2 years old and seats about 5000.

[not so fast]

in the aba, either the owner has a venue, then no money for the players or money for the players and no venue. rarely do they have money for both. Why does this madness continue? why doesn't ESPN outside the lines do a special on these start up leagues, and expose these frauds?

If they are allowed to continue, it will soon taint all minorleague basketball.

[BBall Fan]

So Nashville's lease is actually signed???

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

I'm not sure about Nashville, but I know that New Jersey has secured the new Bill Bradley Center at Ramapo College for the upcoming season.

The owner wouldn't announce anything until he had a place to play. There is info about the arena on the team website - www.jerseyjaguars.com.

[CRUSADERSFAN]

Gwinnett has a lease with Life University for their gym, Cincinnati has US Bank arena. Detroit is at the University of Michigan-Dearborn.

[not so fast]

you aba groupies don't really believe these teams are really going to play and have a season do you?

You guys are like a cult!!!!

[TEN]

You say that they have a lease at Life University...today's media release say they are playing at some place in Gwinnett County. Unless they are the same place, it seems that they don't know exactly where they are going to play either.

[Pounder]

At this level, you make the real money in beer sales.

College venues = premature death.

This whole circus has "tax fraud" written all over it. I'm just waiting for someone to hit the loudspeaker with "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

"There's no place like home. There's no place like home."

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Hey, I'm a CBA homer and I think the ABA will have a season. It will be another short season, but they will have a season. :)

Yes, let's look at Gwinnett. When you read their press releases thoroughly (and I'm not talking about the poor grammar), you may notice that their press releases often lack useful content. You may also notice that their press releases often don't make any sense. Any news out of this camp I would take with a grain of salt. :roll:

Just a few examples:
...Four white guys and a brother. What exactly was that press release about anyway?

Comcast Southeast to televise all home and away games. Sorry, only in your dreams. You would have to house, feed, and transport equipment for a production company to follow you on the road. A television deal like this WOULD only be feasible if ALL the ABA teams had a similar deal. That way, the tv production crews would be spared the headaches of travel.

ANY of the many references to advisor, Dennis Johnson. Didn't I just read a Gwinnett press release stating that Dennis Johnson will decide on something pertaining to the team? Don't advisors advise--not decide? Which is it?

[Houston Caldwell]

Read the Gwinnett press release-----if I read it correctly,they will be playing all but one of their 2004-2005 home games at the Life University facility, with one home game(on the MLK holiday) to be played at the Arena of Gwinnett.Then their "eventual aim" is to play their home games at the Arena of Gwinnett (whatever that means).You're right, Ken---the Gwinnett Gwizzlies press releases confuse me too. In this case, the title of the press release didn't exactly match the content.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

See what I mean about their press releases NOT making much sense? The following quote is the last paragraph from Gwinnett's most recent press release:

Good planning,marketing,sponsors and building a fan base is the Gwizzlies goals for the first season while the team play it's first season at Life University.Gwizzlies officials states,"that playing at the Arena of Gwinnett will have major league revenue results.According to the franchise General manager, 18 soldout ballgames would put the franchise in the seven digit income producing bracket .


...okay, let's follow the logic being used here: If you lease the Georgia Dome instead, then 18 soldout ballgames would put the franchise in the EIGHT digit income producing bracket. Same logic. No wonder so many minor league franchises fold. Reality is not a factor in their business plan.

The Georgia Dome will not sellout for minor league basketball. The 12,500 seat Arena of Gwinnett will not sellout for minor league basketball either.

[meyes]

If it weren't for the press releases coming from the Gwizzlies, I would be confident that this might be one of the premier franchises in minor league sports. I still think the franchise will do well, but as I have posted elsewhere, they ABSOLUTELY MUST hire someone who can write. I have been a sports editor at several publications. What they release is, at best, awful, it is frequently gibberish. Were I an editor now, I would not waste time trying to decipher it and the team would not get any ink or air time.
There is simply no excuse for a professional organization to put out this awful garbage.

[meyes]

If it weren't for the press releases coming from the Gwizzlies, I would be confident that this might be one of the premier franchises in minor league sports. I still think the franchise will do well, but as I have posted elsewhere, they ABSOLUTELY MUST hire someone who can write. I have been a sports editor at several publications. What they release is, at best, awful, it is frequently gibberish. Were I an editor now, I would not waste time trying to decipher it and the team would not get any ink or air time.
There is simply no excuse for a professional organization to put out this awful garbage.

[Sam Hill]

And that tells me they're NOT going to be one of the premier organizations in minor league sports.

They CAN'T be. They're in the ABA.

It is simply impossible for an ABA team to be among the premier organizations in minor league sports.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

If it weren't for the press releases coming from the Gwizzlies, I would be confident that this might be one of the premier franchises in minor league sports.

Meyes, DUDE! :shock:
You have an example of a premier minor league franchise right there in Indianapolis. The franchise is called the Indianapolis Indians (baseball AAA). They're so stable that they've had the same general manager for like the last 20 years. Dude, are you sure you want to rank the Gwinnett Gwizzlies with the Indians?:shock:

In all fairness, you did allow some realism to sneak-in by qualifying your statement with "if" and "might be".

This is a thread on ABA venues, so let's just look at the original situation involving Gwinnett and its venue. If Gwinnett was doing its homework, then Gwinnett would have known in advance there was no place in Gwinnett for Gwinnett to play. 8)

I think I would look elsewhere for a premier franchise in minor league sports.

[meyes]

You are right about the Indianapolis Indians, a franchise I am quite familiar with. I was the team photographer for four years in the 1980s when the team won the AA title four times, three divisional championships, three season championships and both of the Junior World Series contested during that time. There is room for more that one premier franchise. Any franchise that can match the Indians will be very successful.

[Micro67]

Does anyone know what the venue will be for the Rotweilers? Also, why didn't they stay with their old ABA name (the Spirits)? - it wasn't bad. I think all of the new ABA teams except St. Louis have kept their old names.

[CRUSADERSFAN]

The Rottweilers didn't choose Spirits because they didn't want to disturb the legacy of something so great as the Spirits.
Only L.A. and Kentucky have the Original ABA names. Here are what the others would be. :)

Carolina Thunder would be Carolina Cougars
Ft.Worth Tycoons would be Texas Chapparals(since Ft.worth was a regional location for the team)
Pittsburgh Hardhats would be Pittsburgh Pipers or Pittsburgh Condors
Utah Snowbears would be Utah Stars

[meyes]

Of course, the old Utah Stars were originally the Los Angeles Stars, a name being used again (for the third time) in he ABA. Actually, all these teams are new since the old ABA, so whater name they choose is their original name.

[Micro67]

I have to believe that the Rotweilers will wind up at the Family Arena along with the Sea Otters (Hockey) and the Believers (NIFL), but under the best of circumstances, they would play at the Kiel.

Minor league teams have played there before; including the Stampede (when the AFL was still a minor league) and the Vipers of the old Roller Hockey International.

[RMc]

In other news, the Orange County Crush have been added as the 28th (!) ABA expansion team, bringing the total ABA membership to 35 (!!) teams.

This would make the ABA the largest league in basketball history. Uh-huh.

I think the idea is to hand out expansion franchises to pretty much anyone who fancies themselves a sports team owner, then wait for the inevitable shakeout; something like: 40 teams announced, 30 actually start season, 20 actually finish season, a dozen or so make it to 2005-06...

[Micro67]

Sadly, the whole thing is beginning to look like Amway or some other pyramid scheme. I would love to see the ABA knock the NBA on its butt, but it looks like they are selling the dream of owning a team to whomever can put together the cash.

[meyes]

I have never purchased an Amway product, nor have I ever been associated with Amway in any way, but I do understand multilevel marketing very well. I can assure you Amway is a legal, legitimate, viable and respected company and in no way is it a pyramid scheme.

[Sam Hill]

Which puts it way ahead of the ABA.

[meyes]

Sam, you are absolutely right
Howerer, the ABA is still in business five years after it started which puts it way ahead of most of the businesses that ever started. The ABA clearly has a long way to go but progress is being made. I suspect that something fewer than 35 teams will actually tipoff this season. I have no concern that the league will have plenty of teams. Much more has been announced, and backed up, at this time of year than any time before in the league's history. Three teams even have been announced for next season. (That is planning ahead-something you have always advised.)
Amway has been around a long time. Comparing it to the ABA isn't really a fair comparison.

[Sam Hill]

Five years after it started?

It was December 26, 2000, right?

If you want to say they announced themselves in the summer of 1999, then, fine. But don't forget they took a year off from playing.

They don't get five years of credit from me. They've played three seasons, none of them to their scheduled completion.

[meyes]

You got my time frame right. My main point is, the ABA is still in business. It has not always been pretty but they are still going.

[Micro67]

I have never purchased an Amway product, nor have I ever been associated with Amway in any way, but I do understand multilevel marketing very well. I can assure you Amway is a legal, legitimate, viable and respected company and in no way is it a pyramid scheme. Sorry if I have unduely dispariaged the good name of Amway. I have had experience with them in that some of their devotees have regailed me with the numberous benifits of buying from Amway and I found the experience to be similar to having a religeous zealot knock on my door.

I hope that the ABA puts 35 or more teams on the court next season, but wouldn't you agree that expanding a league 600% in one off season is an ambitious undertaking?

[Sam Hill]

Buying from Amway is no big deal - Selling Amway products is no big deal.

It's when you recruit other people to sell and get a cut of what they sell that makes it a pyramid deal. Call it Multi-Level Marketing, whatever.

[BBall Fan]

Sorry Meyes, that's not true.

While the league is still playing (at least part of most seasons), it is not the same business!!

After year 1 (and possibly after year 2 as well), the corporate structure of the league folded/went bankrupt to dissolve all of its debts. Then they just re-incorporated under a different name and started all over.

That's why nobody got paid from the first few years and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it.

For all I know, they've done that every year.

[meyes]

Sam, You have strayed into an area you don't know enough about to make informed comments. Robert Kiyosaki disagrees with your view about multi-level marketing. If you know who he is, you know you are outclassed in this area. If you don't know who he is, you have proven you are out of your league here.
While we frequently disagree about the ABA, I do respect your knowledge about basketball. Let's get back to basketball and basketball business.

[meyes]

Sam, You have strayed into an area you don't know enough about to make informed comments. Robert Kiyosaki disagrees with your view about multi-level marketing. If you know who he is, you know you are outclassed in this area. If you don't know who he is, you have proven you are out of your league here.
While we frequently disagree about the ABA, I do respect your knowledge about basketball. Let's get back to basketball and basketball business.

[Micro67]

Sam, You have strayed into an area you don't know enough about to make informed comments. This is about basketball, not Amway - I'm sorry I brought them into it.

Back to the original question - Where will the St. Louis Rotweillers play?

[Sam Hill]

meyes:

Fair enough. As long as the next time we start talking about ticket sales and revenue streams and what makes a successful minor league sports franchise, you stay out of the discussion, because you're out of your league when we do.

[meyes]

Sam, as a student of Robert Kiyosaki's teaching (he said of our business "I wish I had started your business before I started mine."), and as someone who is fortunate enough to work with and learn from hundreds (including more than 40 millionaires) of people who have obtained financial independance, I DO know about multiple streams of income. I also understand ticket sales. Sports franchises can not live on ticket sales alone, but the number of tickets sold does matter because that is one factor considered by potential sponsors, and those potential sponsors becoming actual sponsors can be the determining factor in a franchises long term success.
I also understand that my opinions will have extremely little, if any, bearing on the ultimate success or failure of the ABA or any other business.

[Sam Hill]

Is that your infomercial I see late at night?

And if you're financially independent, that's good - you won't be needing the money Newman owes you, right? ;)

[meyes]

We have never had any advertising on the air anywhere. When you are doing things right you get plenty of positive free press. That and positive word of mouth are the best two ways to build a business.

[meyes]

We have never had any advertising on the air anywhere. When you are doing things right you get plenty of positive free press. That and positive word of mouth are the best two ways to build a business.

[Micro67]

Sam, as a student of Robert Kiyosaki's teaching (he said of our business "I wish I had started your business before I started mine."), and as someone who is fortunate enough to work with and learn from hundreds (including more than 40 millionaires) of people who have obtained financial independance, I DO know about multiple streams of income. Are you a millionaire (in U.S. dollars)?

[meyes]

Not yet. I just started in this business last September. I am very wealthy in new friends and associates since I got started and every day I have the opportunity to help people improve their lives. Those are the reasons I got involved. The money will follow.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Meyes,
I don't want to knock the organization you are associated with, but like the ABA owners from last season, I haven't heard of a satisfied customer yet. One of my sisters was an "associate" in this organization, but she bailed-out when she realized that she was NEVER going to make any money at it. Another reason she gave-up may be that another one of my sisters is a lawyer, who knows?

Now there may be plenty of people that have taken advantage of the services this organization provides--I just don't know any of these people. A former co-worker of mine was another "associate" in this organization and BOY WAS SHE PUSHY! Every lunch hour (and every chance she got) she tried to sell us on their services or on becoming an associate. We either told her politely "thanks, but no thanks", flat-out told her "NO WAY LADY", or went the other way when we saw her coming. Unlike my sister, she is still hanging in there though.

...back to the ABA. Maybe I missed something, but I have not heard from any happy owners from last season. The Long Beach Jam's owner is concerned that the new owners can't come up with the estimated $750,000 it takes to ACTUALLY operate an ABA franchise for a season. The Fresno owner said, I'm outta here. Someone else please take over. As for the other owners from last year, they may be as happy as a lark--I just don't know of any.

[meyes]

Ken, I haven't spoken with any past or present ABA owners, so I have no idea how they may feel now. I assume any of them could sell out or shut down if they felt that would be their best course of action.
As for my business, I know several hundred or so very satisfied members of the 1.5 million currently on the books. I also personally know dozens who are making VERY comfortable livings or better.
As with any other business, some people represent the company better than others and some people experience more success than others.
If every basketball team in a league had the same level of success there wouldn't be any champions. Some win, some lose. That's what makes life interesting.