OC Flyers

[Baseball]

Can anyone tell me what's happening to the Flyers? They are 1-6 for their last 7. Could it be that the players genuine dislike for Templeton is finally surfacing? Or could it be even a little more than that?

[RW22]

Im not sure about any issues with Garry. They seemed to do pretty well last year with him at the helm. I have not seen to much of them this year, but in watching the box scores-they cant hold a lead. The bullpen has given up numerous leads throughout the year. I knew they blew out their pitching coach and a few pitchers right before the break. Does it make sense (other than financially) to have a 24 year old pitcher/coach? I know Ben knows how to pitch, but does he have enough experience to translate that knowledge? I guess we'll find out.
Im not sure having the GBL leader in strikeouts leading off every night is helping either. Their defense seems to be solid, and have been staying out of the "big inning" for the most part. Having not seen them a lot, I cant say for sure-but my guess is it is pretty frustrating for them night in and night out.

[WiseAndEck]

The Flyers bullpen is atrocious. They have turned many would-be victories into losses.

As for the dislike of Templeton, I haven't heard anything about the players not liking him. I, however, can't stand the guy.

brian

[Ex Flyer Fan]

From what I've heard you are absolutly right on Baseball, about the dislike for Templeton among the players. He has gotten rid of some very popular and productive players. If you weren't with the team last year you'll never have a position on his team this year. He doesn't play the players who deserve to play, only his favorites. He continues to hit his son in the number 2 spot in the line up, when he leads the league in strikouts. Guys like Aaron Davis and Mark Okano work their rear ends off and are twice the outfielders and four times the hitters that Templeton is. Yet they don't have a starting position on the team and are just plugged into the line up when they need a hole filled. I really like the GM Ed Hart but apparently he has been given no power to do anything, so I guess it will remain the Garry Templeton fiasco. So until Templeton is gone, my season ticket money is going to the Armada next year!!

[peeaanuut]

I have not heard about any player dislike for GT, but I would agree that putting GT2 in the line-up every night is absolutely rediculous. There are better more deserving players than him that work harder and have much more skill. That is pure favoritism.

[jd_aka_monty]

Why is it that everyone seems to so quickly pick on the manager when the team is not doing well? I know Garry personally very well, BOTH GT and GT2.

Who in the WORLD are you to pick on GT2's work ethic? GT2 worked his butt off prior to reporting to camp, because we worked together more days than I care to count AND played on local amateur teams getting tuned up. He left here, ready to play and hit better than he did last season. I'm not exactly sure what's going on with his swing at the moment, and we have been playing phone tag for the past couple of weeks.

And, as far as GT as a manager. The man knows the game, inside and out. He almost won it last year, with no where NEAR the line-up that Les was able to master mind and put on the field. But, how does that get forgotten? Not everyone is a wonderful touchy feely guy, especially when it comes to loosing. I know first hand that GT does NOT like to loose, and I'm pretty sure that does not play too well into what's going on right now. I have every faith that he'll do whatever he can to turn the club around. But, it's hard work and needs to be supported by those around him from the top down, including the fans. I've been speaking with him about a couple of potential guys for his pen, and he mentioned that he's been actively looking for pitchers to shore up his pen. That in itself shows how active he is in trying to better his club to win ball games.

And as far as your favoritism comment; name a better "lead-off" hitter that is currently on the squad that can run like GT2? Someone who worked through a lot of issues with his last year and hit .307 last season. Please, anyone?

Whatever you do, please don't speak ill of two men who have been in and around the game for most of their lives, of whom you probably have absolutely no personal knowledge.

Monty

[LB Parents]

It doesn't matter how hard you worked to get there, if you can't do the job, you shouldn't have it. He is only there because of Dad... other manager would put him lower on the lineup or on the bench!!!

[Ex Flyer Fan]

I think you missed the point Monty. You asked who would be a better leadoff hitter than GT2? How about anybody else even Coaltrain. How many times do we as fans have to watch Garry, with runners in scoring position, stand there for 3 pitches with his bat on his shoulder for a third call strike? It has nothing to do with his swing, he doesn't swing! He just stands in there hoping to walk. He leads the league in strikouts by quite a margin if you haven't noticed Monty, thats not something you want from someone hitting second. And LB Parent is absolutely right, if he was on another team he wouldn't be playing. Check Aaron Davis' on base percentage or Mark Okano, faster and better just not the favorites. I'm sure Garry junior is a nice guy, I kave nothing personal against him, he's always been pleasant to me but daddy makes out the lineup card. And if he is the wonderful guy you speak of then he knows in his heart he doesn't belong in there. Monty, just imagine if you were on the team and you and your teammates knew you were better than someone else starting every day, the problems that creates. And in juniors mind he knows no matter how long he plays bad he will always be in the starting lineup tomorrow. What does that say to the players that no matter how hard they work or how sucessful they are, they will never crack the lineup? That's a team that will never win. And as far as Templeton the coach goes Monty, please tell me what he has won as a manager? From my research he has won nothing and never will as long as he plays favoritism over talent.

[RW22]

I think you are reacting because you are so close. No one is here denying how hard both GT and GT 2 work. GT had NOTHING to work with the first year and id a great job with what he had. This year, he has a .222 kid (and I say that as a generic kid, not GT's) hitting in the top third of the lineup. Do you not agree that the idea is, in that slot, to position your power hitters to have people on base? If a guy is leading the league in K's, should he be more suited for a 6-8 slot? GT2 makes work like no other, but its the numbers that bear out the truth. He is one heck of a defensive player, which may play out extra starts, but it in no way reflects on his positioning in the lineup. I like the kid, a lot--but objectively; would you rather have a .222 hitter leading the league in K's in front of you; or---someone who is hitting better, who may get on more and give your 4-5-6 guys a shot at gettiong RBI's..
Its not about work ethic, its about production..he isnt producing at the top of the lineup and the fans are noticing it....nothing wrong with that.

[jd_aka_monty]

Well, I can definitely see how you might assume that I'm too close, but I've been playing this game for 31 years, as a catcher and am still playing today. I know very well what GT2 is capable of and would leave him in that spot, knowing that he has the "ability" to break out at any moment. GT2's entire professional career, he has been known as a streaky hitter and last year was probably his most productive year at the professional level. But, when he does go on a streak, he has been very productive in the top of the line up. Call it was you want, but didn't Chico just win the first half with only 4 guys barely hitting over .300? If you look at the highest level, and honestly evaluate lead-off hitters, there are many different reasons that they are in the lead-off spot, not just their average.

Yes, GT2 is a very good friend of mine, but I'm definitely ALL about the baseball. I also know that he AND GT are as well. There is a reason that he is hitting lead-off, and I know that if either of them felt he couldn't get the job done, that he would not be hitting in that spot. Believe me, if you've ever had an honest conversation with GT2 and gave him the opportunity to speak, he'd tell you himself that he would rather not be in the lead-off spot, if he felt it hurt his team, and so would GT.

Monty

[WiseAndEck]

I am a huge GT2 fan, as he is a genuine nice guy and he works his butt off. However, it comes down to performance. If you aren't performing, then you need to give someone else a shot. I think that's the gist of this thread. I don't think anyone is bashing GT2's work ethic, but the fact that GT plugs him into the lineup every day, regardless of struggles.

brian

[jd_aka_monty]

So, you believe, it's just because it's his father, he is getting more of a chance than anyone else?

If that's the case, then why is it that we don't see Gerome's name on the roster? He was in camp this past Spring, he is Garry's son as well, and a pretty darn good ball player. I know, I've watched him grow up and played against him, he has some pretty good skills.

If it's believed to be favoritism, then it should be REALLY fun trying to explain why at the highest level played, they stick with players in certain spots (even lead-off) that can't hit their weight? Is it maybe that it's the best place for them in the lineup (defense coming into play) and the person making the decision MIGHT know a little bit more about the game or the individual than you?

Either way...everyone is a critic and the best time to second guess is when you're not pulling out close games. But, it's definitely NOT the same when you're on the field of play, giving everything you have to win a single ball game at a time. Quick sand sure does suck, especially when you're stuck in it...

Monty

[WiseAndEck]

Just for the record, I have not mentioned favoritism or nepotism in any of my posts. I have merely stated that it comes down to production. I'd be saying the same thing if it was Rich Pohle that was mired in a season-long slump and continued to be in the lineup every day.

And one of the main aspects of message boards is to critique things. In this case we are critiquing the Flyers. Could every single player hit, catch and throw better than me? Yes. But that doesn't mean we can't discuss players' actions on the field. Otherwise, what a boring world this would be.

brian

[peeaanuut]

hey has not perfomed this year. He is sluggish in batting practice, he was sluggish in pre-season. Sit him on the bench, give him some time off and lets see if that kicks his streak into gear.

[jd_aka_monty]

Actually, I definitely would agree with you on the giving him a day or few off. Send him down here to visit with me for a few days. LOL

And as far as the "critics" comment. What I don't believe to be fair is the apparent picking on the father son relationship, especially when it actually makes things MORE difficult, when being in the type of relationship they find themselves in. Actually, GT is pretty rough on GT2 when it comes to baseball, and I know that GT2 is pretty hard on himself, more so than he needs to be, there by putting a LOT more pressure on himself. Which, as we all know, is not exactly performance enhancing. So, again, the idea of giving him a few days off, might be the best idea to get him back on track. Especially, if he could send him back down here for those days, to work out.

Monty