Future Predictions for the NIFL

[AllAces]

This is a thread for anyone who has any opinions, predictions or information about the future plans of the NIFL. This should NOT be for bickering about the 2007 season.

Who is first? Who has predictions about current teams that may return next year (if there is one)?

[Popa L]

If the NIFL does return next season it will be teams owned by CG. Know owner in his/her right mind would join the NIFL.

[Pounder]

If the NIFL does return next season it will be teams owned by CG. Know owner in his/her right mind would join the NIFL.

...and short of finding a big-pocket sucker, I'd think the over/under of games actually played could be counted on my toes... without counting one twice. Not that I want to see Joe Newman look good by comparison...

We must warn the suckers!

[dirk diggler]

Not In For Long

[AllAces]

If the NIFL does return next season it will be teams owned by CG. No owner in his/her right mind would join the NIFL.

That was said last year. Yet, somehow Shriver and Gary were able to convince San Diego to buy a franchise. I believe they will continue to target the uneducated with promises of getting rich in one season.

Also, they were able to convince King and the Laytons (along with others) that they had a good strategy for this season and that they should not go to another league.

These are all intelligent people that should have known better.

However, I don't think they will try to operate league owned teams. I think they have learned that lesson. Unless, they can convince an unsuspecting coach to go ahead and pay for things out of pocket - until they can pay him back...

[Freedom]

If the NIFL did continue, I'd be amazed if they could get the necessary venues.
Horse parks are probably even out of the question at this point.

[gridirontime]

That was said last year. Yet, somehow Shriver and Gary were able to convince San Diego to buy a franchise. I believe they will continue to target the uneducated with promises of getting rich in one season.

Also, they were able to convince King and the Laytons (along with others) that they had a good strategy for this season and that they should not go to another league.

These are all intelligent people that should have known better.

However, I don't think they will try to operate league owned teams. I think they have learned that lesson. Unless, they can convince an unsuspecting coach to go ahead and pay for things out of pocket - until they can pay him back...

Uneducated?? Realize that this owner was involved with the AFL2 RIPTIDE who was here for 4 seasons. PLease get rich in a minor league sport?In a city where you compete against a MLB francise such as the Padres! I am positve that he knew what he was in for money wise. Maybe you should point your fingers at the other francises. You know the ones that folded or continued to come back after last season.

By the way we here in San Diego knew nothing of the NIFL until this year, so if there problems last year or years prior and you stayed your owners and front office people are bad bussines people. :eek: :mrgreen:

[AllAces]

They could always take on one the new names that were recently registered by Cleveland and try to pass it off as a new league, hoping that the name change would trick arena owners into doing business with them.

I have been caught off guard by Shriver's resourcefulness in the past. It was genius for her to install Gary as the figurehead to take the heat off of her.

I expect there will be more to discuss in this forum.

What about Beaumont or Greensboro? Any idea what is in store for them?

[AllAces]

Uneducated?? Realize that this owner was involved with the AFL2 RIPTIDE who was here for 4 seasons. PLease get rich in a minor league sport?In a city where you compete against a MLB francise such as the Padres! I am positve that he knew what he was in for money wise. Maybe you should point your fingers at the other francises. You know the ones that folded or continued to come back after last season.

By the way we here in San Diego knew nothing of the NIFL until this year, so if there problems last year or years prior and you stayed your owners and front office people are bad bussines people. :eek: :mrgreen:

Thank you for making my point. In one sentence you say that they were involved with AF2 in the past, but yet they chose the NIFL of all the leagues to choose from.

Then later, you say that "...we here in San Diego knew nothing of the NIFL..." Seems like you would want to do some research and find out about the league that you are paying so much money to join.

No matter how you look at it, San Diego's decision was a grand mistake - one that could have been avoided if those making the decisions had taken the time to educate themselves about the league.

I hope you are not saying that the San Diego ownership is smarter than everyone else in the league because they were the only ones who joined for the right reasons...

I never said your owner was lured by promises of getting rich. I can't even imagine what bag of goods they were sold. I said they would try to lure future "marks" with that promise.

[chef hardy]

can't really say where beau. will end up next year, but would have to hope that greens. would go to the aifa as well and make it 3 nc teams in the league. would be awesome to continue our rivalry with them and both of us get the chance to start a new one with the carolina speed. would also be a good fit for columbia and atlanta you would think geographically, if they can get all their eggs in one basket and make it through an entire season. but you never know :)

[AllAces]

Clarification on my use of the word uneducated: I mean uneducated about this league. I am not trying to imply that anyone has not completed high school.

That clarification was necessary for those who have not completed high school and misinterpreted my comment.

[gonzo13]

As much as I'd like to see the NIFL die like a gutshot dog, I think CS/CG will try to milk another season out of it.

The fact is, there will ALWAYS be guys with dreams to fill rosters, and I'm convinced that CS and CG will play in a circus tent if need be. The only thing left is to snooker an owner or two, and they are pros when it comes to snookering....or FRAUD, whichever term you prefer.

So I can see two teams lining up to play under the NIFL banner next season, in some way shape or form, as much as I hate that idea.

[gridirontime]

Thank you for making my point. In one sentence you say that they were involved with AF2 in the past, but yet they chose the NIFL of all the leagues to choose from.

Then later, you say that "...we here in San Diego knew nothing of the NIFL..." Seems like you would want to do some research and find out about the league that you are paying so much money to join.

No matter how you look at it, San Diego's decision was a grand mistake - one that could have been avoided if those making the decisions had taken the time to educate themselves about the league.

I hope you are not saying that the San Diego ownership is smarter than everyone else in the league because they were the only ones who joined for the right reasons...

I never said your owner was lured by promises of getting rich. I can't even imagine what bag of goods they were sold. I said they would try to lure future "marks" with that promise.


I never said this was the owner of the AFL2 Riptide, I was just stating the facts that we once had a AFL2 team. I believe they were not back into the AFL2 due to it's entrance fee of $600,000? Or at least that is what I was told.
Now as for the not hearing of the NIFL, AIFL or even the UIFL. I personally had never heard of any of these minor league leagues.

With that said I'm sure that they were promised something obiviously, but who knows maybe all the opportunity's of a league with league sponsored teams and the in state rivarly with LA or Pomona or TRi Valley sounded to good to be true.
Just as Fayettville has Greensboro these teams would be our rivals. So if the ownership bought into the idea of these things that would explain it.

Now back to the ownership here Mr. Sprowls was involved with the AFL2 here but not as the owner.As far the promises of the AFL2 they also dangeled a carrott in front of the ownership with promises.

If you think for a minute that these issues don't arise in other leagues you are sadly mistaken. For instance when we were in the AFL2 there was Hawaii and Fresno, Bakersfield, San Diego.
Hawaii lasted three years and was gone , Fresno was here one year and gone the next and only to come back the year after as Central Valley. So as you see leagues are pretty much the same every where.

So as far as making your point that never happened, as for we I was referring to the fans of the team. Realize this is San Diego not Fayettville ! We have other things here that keep our attention besides arena football.

So Nostrodomis please advise all of us as to what we to do? If this was a grand mistake it was a mistake worth taking. One it excited a fan base that once was dead, it put people in the seats and got them excited about this game. Two it put this name (THE SHOCKWAVE) out there and now people will know who and what they represent.

So as I see it yes it was disapointing that we were screwed out of playing in any sort of playoff game, but no one can take away our 10-1 season. At least we played road games and played a full schedule against real teams. :mrgreen:

[goguard88]

Who cares? We're through with it. :D

Seriously, though... I don't see how the NIFL can make it through another season. Bonnie and Clyde can't keep their shenanigans going forever. There's nothing left... it's over.

[GoCavs1]

So as I see it yes it was disapointing that we were screwed out of playing in any sort of playoff game, but no one can take away our 10-1 season. At least we played road games and played a full schedule against real teams. :mrgreen:

Gridiron I believe everyone was screwed this year and screwed bad. The problem I see that alot of you guys are protesting about is Wyoming and thier schedule. Unfortunately they played the teams they were scheduled to play when they were able to played them. The Cavalry have never had a problem in the past traveling plaing and when it happens losing. Yes the Shockwave played more. Not all their scheduled games though. And when you say real teams do you mean a team that played a full schedule as well because lets face it no one played a full schedule and no one played teams that played a full schedule and. I can say this as well this year by far across the board besides the 3 teams that finished the year the rest were below subpar level. The teams the Shockwave played were just as disorganized and not prepared as the Cavalry's teams were. The Guard got lucky on thier side of the country. But still no one played a full schedule of real teams. If so you would have played a total of 14 games.
I agree no one can take your season away from you and you guys were definately contenders for this lackluster league. However in reality of it all the competition when there was competition sucked. Also I am sorry if you guys are stuck in the league another year because I have seen the past 2 years turn to crap and unfortunataly I don't see it turning around. I hope you guys can move because you do deserve it.

[AllAces]

I never said this was the owner of the AFL2 Riptide, I was just stating the facts that we once had a AFL2 team. I believe they were not back into the AFL2 due to it's entrance fee of $600,000? Or at least that is what I was told.
Now as for the not hearing of the NIFL, AIFL or even the UIFL. I personally had never heard of any of these minor league leagues.

With that said I'm sure that they were promised something obiviously, but who knows maybe all the opportunity's of a league with league sponsored teams and the in state rivarly with LA or Pomona or TRi Valley sounded to good to be true.
Just as Fayettville has Greensboro these teams would be our rivals. So if the ownership bought into the idea of these things that would explain it.

Now back to the ownership here Mr. Sprowls was involved with the AFL2 here but not as the owner.As far the promises of the AFL2 they also dangeled a carrott in front of the ownership with promises.

If you think for a minute that these issues don't arise in other leagues you are sadly mistaken. For instance when we were in the AFL2 there was Hawaii and Fresno, Bakersfield, San Diego.
Hawaii lasted three years and was gone , Fresno was here one year and gone the next and only to come back the year after as Central Valley. So as you see leagues are pretty much the same every where.

So as far as making your point that never happened, as for we I was referring to the fans of the team. Realize this is San Diego not Fayettville ! We have other things here that keep our attention besides arena football.

So Nostrodomis please advise all of us as to what we to do? If this was a grand mistake it was a mistake worth taking. One it excited a fan base that once was dead, it put people in the seats and got them excited about this game. Two it put this name (THE SHOCKWAVE) out there and now people will know who and what they represent.

So as I see it yes it was disapointing that we were screwed out of playing in any sort of playoff game, but no one can take away our 10-1 season. At least we played road games and played a full schedule against real teams. :mrgreen:

Whatever, dude. I really don't care about your positive spin on something that is undeniably negative. As for your comment that all league have these same problems; you don't know what you are talking about. I am not talking about a team shutting down in the off season. I am talking about 3/4 of the teams shutting down in the middle of a season. Show me another indoor football league that has done that and I will be impressed by you.

What I want to know is what San Diego is going to do next year. It sounds like they are scared of the AF2 because of the cost. Does that mean they are going to follow Casper - the team hated by all San Diego fans because they are stupid in your eyes?

[AllAces]

Consider this: Cleveland made a pretty significant tactical error in sending an eviction notice to F'ville and Casper.

Now he is setting a legal president that he thinks the league can sever the two year no compete clause. So if he tries to force anyone to stay, or tries to "take over" any team, they can claim that even the league recognizes that the no compete clause is worthless.

But even more damaging is that he would use the clause as proof to any perspective new owner that there will be teams to play next year. The fact that the league essentially arbitrarily evicted two of the strongest teams in the league will go a long way in making the instability obvious to anyone who does any due diligence.

Maybe that is why he is making comments in the press backtracking on the eviction.

[baydaddy77]

can't really say where beau. will end up next year, but would have to hope that greens. would go to the aifa as well and make it 3 nc teams in the league. would be awesome to continue our rivalry with them and both of us get the chance to start a new one with the carolina speed. would also be a good fit for columbia and atlanta you would think geographically, if they can get all their eggs in one basket and make it through an entire season. but you never know :)

Excellent point Chef! The best way for any league to be successful is to have very tight geographical boundaries at the beginning and expand outward gradually. The problem is each league will pickup a team (or two if their lucky) in a state and one in the next state. By the time you build your division, you're still traveling 6-8 hours to some games. I would love to a league where your division opponents are 2-4 hours at best and then you have only 2-3 away games of 4-6 hours. It would be less travel, fans could drive a couple hours to catch an away game. It would be a great way to build rivalries. For this to happen though, you'd need an eight team league to contain it's teams to maybe 2-3 connected states. The ECHL came closest to this concept a few years ago when there were teams in Charleston, Florence, Greenville, Augusta, GA and Charlotte, NC. Since Columbia has joined, we've seen Florence and Greenville fail, so it had diminished some.

[Trainwreck]

can't really say where beau. will end up next year, but would have to hope that greens. would go to the aifa as well and make it 3 nc teams in the league. would be awesome to continue our rivalry with them and both of us get the chance to start a new one with the carolina speed. would also be a good fit for columbia and atlanta you would think geographically, if they can get all their eggs in one basket and make it through an entire season. but you never know :)

The problem is that the Atlanta Thoroughbreds were a league-owned team and played their home games in a horse park (or would have, if they'd ever actually played a home game).

Since Atlanta already has an AFL team (Georgia Force) playing at Philips Arena, the only reasonable alternative site would be the Arena at Gwinnett Center. Considering how well run the Gwinnett Arena is (or at least seems to be to me) I would think that they are going to want to be damn sure that any team and league playing there is financially stable.

[Trainwreck]

My guess is that the NIFL will go away. Anybody with the money to put up for a team would have to be smart enough to do a little research into the 2007 season. All they'd have to do is Google 'NIFL Football'. If that isn't enough to scare them off then they'll get what they deserve.

The other problem that the NIFL is going to have is facilities. No halfway decent arena is going to give an NIFL team a lease without paying for the whole season up-front. They may have to resort to playing in the local YMCA gym!

The league burned so many bridges this year that I just can't see them being able to continue. And just changinge the name won't change the people involved.

San Diego and Greensboro: GET OUT NOW!

[AllAces]

Of course they have burned the vast majority of venues and owners. But, what if CG, or some brand new unknown person, comes around promoting a new league called "Top Shelf Indoor Football" (or whatever they choose). There is nothing to google and no history.

That is what scares me.

[randall]

they should play outdoors on high school fields

[hellohello]

"Because I'm Worth It" League (LLC):p

[gridirontime]

Whatever, dude. I really don't care about your positive spin on something that is undeniably negative. As for your comment that all league have these same problems; you don't know what you are talking about. I am not talking about a team shutting down in the off season. I am talking about 3/4 of the teams shutting down in the middle of a season. Show me another indoor football league that has done that and I will be impressed by you.

What I want to know is what San Diego is going to do next year. It sounds like they are scared of the AF2 because of the cost. Does that mean they are going to follow Casper - the team hated by all San Diego fans because they are stupid in your eyes?

Hey allaces? I don't believe anyone said that we hated Wyoming! I believe what was stated was that what Wyoming and Fayettville did was hated.

Is your team even playing anymore? Are they defunct also as this league?

As for a positive spin on this? I did not try and give you that impression about the NIFL. I again am just telling you facts about the San Diego franchise and what we have endured. From this debackle this year and the loss of a AFL 2 team also.

Also if you don't think that this happens in other leagues your sadly mistaken, maybe not to where this league would compare but it does happen.
As I have stated earlier jack @#$! :eek:

If you are so worried about San Diego and what they plan for next year try emailing them and asking! Like I did! :mrgreen:

[tony-o]

My prediction: Cleveland Gary will start a "new" league, using one of the names he registered(National Independent Football League and National Intense Football League). The league will promote playing on 50-yard fields that aren't indoor exclusive. A few owners will buy franchises in the league, but a majority of the teams will be resurrected league owned "teams" and new teams invented by CG to make a 64 team league with 60+ league-owned teams. A majority of the games will not be played because CG will not be able to put together 60+ teams(he barely put together 10). The few good teams will realize what they got themselves into about halfway through the season and will form another "rebel league". Those teams will join professional leagues in 2009, and CG will repeat the process again the next year.

[preeths]

Also if you don't think that this happens in other leagues your sadly mistaken, maybe not to where this league would compare but it does happen.

It doesn't happen in other leagues. Remind me again, which other indoor football league cancelled nearly 75 percent of its games, lost nearly 80 percent of its teams during the season and failed to hold a sanctioned postseason?

[AllAces]

Hey allaces? I don't believe anyone said that we hated Wyoming! I believe what was stated was that what Wyoming and Fayettville did was hated.

Is your team even playing anymore? Are they defunct also as this league?

As for a positive spin on this? I did not try and give you that impression about the NIFL. I again am just telling you facts about the San Diego franchise and what we have endured. From this debackle this year and the loss of a AFL 2 team also.

Also if you don't think that this happens in other leagues your sadly mistaken, maybe not to where this league would compare but it does happen.
As I have stated earlier jack @#$! :eek:

If you are so worried about San Diego and what they plan for next year try emailing them and asking! Like I did! :mrgreen:

Your facts are actually more like opinions and perceptions- which are not credible.

I wasn't worried about San Diego, I am curious. I am trying to give you guys a forum to promote what is going to become of San Diego next year so that we can all stop focusing on the negative stuff that happened this year.

If you want to instead defend the NIFL, go ahead. But, use logic as opposed to "it's the same everywhere." That argument is not valid.

[gridirontime]

Your facts are actually more like opinions and perceptions- which are not credible.

I wasn't worried about San Diego, I am curious. I am trying to give you guys a forum to promote what is going to become of San Diego next year so that we can all stop focusing on the negative stuff that happened this year.

If you want to instead defend the NIFL, go ahead. But, use logic as opposed to "it's the same everywhere." That argument is not valid.

Again I amnot defending this league (NIFL), but instead I am defending my team and city. If you think that changing the topic that the BS of this year will go away your wrong.

Yes it's the NIFLs fault, but as to the end of the season there are other people and franchises who hold responsibility for how this has all played out. So please stop! Let people vent, rant , and even rave about their opinons.

As to the other leagues, I never stated that there are leagues who cancel 80% of the games and teams. What I am referring to is teams folding after the season and never returning. Just look at the AFL2 the turn over there is 2 to 3 years for a franchise. WHY? answer that question PREETHS!:mrgreen:

[AllAces]

The arrogance of some San Diego fans is overwhelming. This isn’t about San Diego. You aren’t that relevant.

This thread is about the future. If you want to enlighten us about the future of San Diego, please do. If you want to discuss what you think the NIFL officers have planned, go right ahead.

But if you want to continue to defend what happened last year, try to convince everyone about how great San Diego is, and debate why you love the NIFL – start your own thread and stop high jacking this one!

[preeths]

As to the other leagues, I never stated that there are leagues who cancel 80% of the games and teams. What I am referring to is teams folding after the season and never returning. Just look at the AFL2 the turn over there is 2 to 3 years for a franchise. WHY? answer that question PREETHS!:mrgreen:

The answer is of course quite simple. It's a minor league and that's the nature of the beast. You will have frachise turnover, and that's acceptable in the minors, after the season is complete. What happened in the NIFL was franchises folding during the season, breaking their obligations to fans, coaches, players, other teams, sponsors, venues, communities, etc. That's a completely different deal, and I suspect you know it.

Your contention was that the problems we saw in the NIFL this season were no different than those of any other league. You are wrong.

[gridirontime]

The answer is of course quite simple. It's a minor league and that's the nature of the beast. You will have frachise turnover, and that's acceptable in the minors, after the season is complete. What happened in the NIFL was franchises folding during the season, breaking their obligations to fans, coaches, players, other teams, sponsors, venues, communities, etc. That's a completely different deal, and I suspect you know it.

Your contention was that the problems we saw in the NIFL this season were no different than those of any other league. You are wrong.

[SIZE="2"]No that was not my thouhts or was I ever trying to relay those intentions regarding the NIFL.
I was trying to say that the broken promises of any league whether it be NIFL or AFL2 doesn't matter.
The only thing that drives anyone is money! And being here in San Diego and have seen the AFL2 come in and then now the NIFL follow suit. These people whether its CG or the CEO of any league are only there to make money! Not for my or your benifit.

After three season of AFL 2 and the dwindling of teams, the loss of revenue due to no rivarlys. If you had one who knew if they would be there net season.
Now don't get me wrong if I had my choice San Diego would be in the AFL 2, because if your in the minor leagues why not be at the top of the minors instead of some second rate league or worse. :eek: :mrgreen:

[AllAces]

No that was not my thouhts or was I ever trying to relay those intentions regarding the NIFL.
I was trying to say that the broken promises of any league whether it be NIFL or AFL2 doesn't matter.
The only thing that drives anyone is money! And being here in San Diego and have seen the AFL2 come in and then now the NIFL follow suit. These people whether its CG or the CEO of any league are only there to make money! Not for my or your benifit.

After three season of AFL 2 and the dwindling of teams, the loss of revenue due to no rivarlys. If you had one who knew if they would be there net season.
Now don't get me wrong if I had my choice San Diego would be in the AFL 2, because if your in the minor leagues why not be at the top of the minors instead of some second rate league or worse. :eek: :mrgreen:

Now we are communicating!

Of course the CEO or leadership of any league or team is there to make money. This is not a national charity with football fans as the recipient. There is nothing wrong with making a profit.

But here is the balance. The only way you can make money is to make the fans happy - bottom line. It should be a win-win for everyone.

But that is very hard to do. At this level, everything is very fragile. If you have a losing season early, you may start to lose your buzz and your fans. When you lose your fans, you lose you sponsorships and suddenly the organization is a money pit.

For every 13 - 1 team there is a 1 - 13 team who is in fear of losing everything.

This is true at the team level as well as the league level. If the league succeeds in satisfying the fans by ensuring the season runs without controversy, everyone wins. If not - they fail, as we saw in the NIFL this year (an extreme example).

With other leagues, the fans know at the beginning of the season who they are going to playing the current year (even if that changed from last year). They can easily count the wins and losses. They can figure, at any given point, where they stand in the running to the post season. They can comfortably invest their emotions into the team for the season without worrying that their heart will be broken when half the games are cancelled and/or they have to play the local semi-pro team just to fulfill the arena contract.

I believe that is the difference.

Now the question is; if the league does find a way to move forward, what will they do to ensure the fans stay happy?

[gridirontime]

Now we are communicating!

Of course the CEO or leadership of any league or team is there to make money. This is not a national charity with football fans as the recipient. There is nothing wrong with making a profit.

But here is the balance. The only way you can make money is to make the fans happy - bottom line. It should be a win-win for everyone.

But that is very hard to do. At this level, everything is very fragile. If you have a losing season early, you may start to lose your buzz and your fans. When you lose your fans, you lose you sponsorships and suddenly the organization is a money pit.

For every 13 - 1 team there is a 1 - 13 team who is in fear of losing everything.

This is true at the team level as well as the league level. If the league succeeds in satisfying the fans by ensuring the season runs without controversy, everyone wins. If not - they fail, as we saw in the NIFL this year (an extreme example).

With other leagues, the fans know at the beginning of the season who they are going to playing the current year (even if that changed from last year). They can easily count the wins and losses. They can figure, at any given point, where they stand in the running to the post season. They can comfortably invest their emotions into the team for the season without worrying that their heart will be broken when half the games are cancelled and/or they have to play the local semi-pro team just to fulfill the arena contract.

I believe that is the difference.

Now the question is; if the league does find a way to move forward, what will they do to ensure the fans stay happy?


As for the league I personally could care less and hope that the SD team moves on into a better league.
But as for my opinon I would expect that a city such as ours would be back with AFL 2. Only for the fact that as I said earlier that it's the next biggest thing compared to the real deal as AFL.

Now as for the Shockwave goes I emailed them these same questions this is the reply that I received back (Thank you for your support of the Shockwave. Unfortunately, we will not be playing any more games this season. Currently the Shockwave is still in the NIFL, but we are actively exploring all available options for next season. We aim to keep indoor football in San Diego for years to come. Thank you again for all your support. ) :confused:

So take that for what it's worth. I read something about there being a two year contract, hopefully that can be negated.

Hopefullly I didn't get them in trouble some how. I did exclude the name of the person who emailed me this response.

[slickfriction]

As for the league I personally could care less and hope that the SD team moves on into a better league.
But as for my opinon I would expect that a city such as ours would be back with AFL 2. Only for the fact that as I said earlier that it's the next biggest thing compared to the real deal as AFL.

Now as for the Shockwave goes I emailed them these same questions this is the reply that I received back (Thank you for your support of the Shockwave. Unfortunately, we will not be playing any more games this season. Currently the Shockwave is still in the NIFL, but we are actively exploring all available options for next season. We aim to keep indoor football in San Diego for years to come. Thank you again for all your support. ) :confused:

So take that for what it's worth. I read something about there being a two year contract, hopefully that can be negated.

Hopefullly I didn't get them in trouble some how. I did exclude the name of the person who emailed me this response.

A contract is agreed upon by two entities. If either one of those entities does not live up to their end of the contract, typically, the contract is voidable. Given the fact that the NIFL didn't even come close to living up to it's end of the contract this past season I don't see it being a problem for San Diego or any other NIFL team moving on to another league next season.

The failure of the league to provide the necessary financial support to the league owned teams such that they could fulfill their scheduling obligations created a major problem. Venues were not paid for, players were not paid, insurance was not paid, and on and on and on. San Diego ownership had to actually pay opponents' players as well as supply equipment for opponents' teams just so they could play the scheduled games.

Now this certainly seems like a breach of contract by the NIFL. Another issue in San Diego relative to the AF2, besides the huge buy in expense, is geography. The only two teams in the AF2 that are somewhat close to San Diego are Bakersfield and Central Valley. This creates a huge expense for the San Diego franchise from the standpoint of travel. Most minor league teams in any league, including hockey, baseball, and basketball, are located within a bus ride of most of the other teams. Minor league teams just don't create enough revenue throughout the course of the year to support flying to more than two or three games.

From a business standpoint it is much more complicated than simply joining another league to play in. The Shockwave will be in San Diego next year, there is no doubt about that, because their ownership group is very committed to having a team and they have the financial means in which to do so. It is simply a matter of determining what league will make the most sense from a financial standpoint. The whole point is to have a team for the fans of San Diego to support and to do so it must be a lucrative enough endeavor to keep the team in the area for as long as the fans support the team.

[AllAces]

I completely agree with both of you. Surprised?

Gridiron - Thanks for sharing the response you got. I agree with slick that the NIFL has most likely broken the agreement and, through incompetence, impeded their ability to make money as a business. But, I am sure they will want to get their legal ducks in a row before they make any announcement about future plans.

But one more year of this may just undo the Shockwave. Fans will start to dwindle if they continue to see instability. They need to make a move, like everyone else. Let Cleveland line up his own little army men and play with himself.

Slick is also right about the complications of changing leagues. It's very expensive. The cost has to be able to be mitigated by a sharp increase in revenue - mainly from sponsorships. So, they have to decide what the local market will bare. San Diego is certainly big enough to meet these demands, but is there enough local interest to generate the amount needed to survive.

On the other hand, a deal with a different league will most definitely be cheaper. You don't end up risking as much money, but you risk the same sorts of problems that were encountered this year, but on a smaller scale.

As for travel, I don't think you are going to be able to get away very cheap no matter what league you end up in.

If you have contact with the team office, have them get a hold of Randy Schillinger of the Tri-Cities Fever (they should have his number from the pre-season). He will be able to share his experiences going from the NIFL to AF2. Of course that was the result of a rather hostile takeover, but he should have some good insight. As their GM, he should also be able to relate how the income needed to change to match the outflow.

[gridirontime]

A contract is agreed upon by two entities. If either one of those entities does not live up to their end of the contract, typically, the contract is voidable. Given the fact that the NIFL didn't even come close to living up to it's end of the contract this past season I don't see it being a problem for San Diego or any other NIFL team moving on to another league next season.

The failure of the league to provide the necessary financial support to the league owned teams such that they could fulfill their scheduling obligations created a major problem. Venues were not paid for, players were not paid, insurance was not paid, and on and on and on. San Diego ownership had to actually pay opponents' players as well as supply equipment for opponents' teams just so they could play the scheduled games.

Now this certainly seems like a breach of contract by the NIFL. Another issue in San Diego relative to the AF2, besides the huge buy in expense, is geography. The only two teams in the AF2 that are somewhat close to San Diego are Bakersfield and Central Valley. This creates a huge expense for the San Diego franchise from the standpoint of travel. Most minor league teams in any league, including hockey, baseball, and basketball, are located within a bus ride of most of the other teams. Minor league teams just don't create enough revenue throughout the course of the year to support flying to more than two or three games.

From a business standpoint it is much more complicated than simply joining another league to play in. The Shockwave will be in San Diego next year, there is no doubt about that, because their ownership group is very committed to having a team and they have the financial means in which to do so. It is simply a matter of determining what league will make the most sense from a financial standpoint. The whole point is to have a team for the fans of San Diego to support and to do so it must be a lucrative enough endeavor to keep the team in the area for as long as the fans support the team.

Slick, what are the alternatives for SD? I had never even heard of the NIFL until this season. What league has any teams near SO CAL? Obviously other than the AFL 2.

The point from ALL ACES, if I had never heard of the NIFL how many other people fill the way I do? To bring in a small market league as this, will the fans continue the support the team? And will they give there support to a even smaller unknown league?

If you were to break it down from top to bottom as being the better known with promise, how do these leagues rate?

What is the closest league to the west coast?

[phydeaux72]

I think SD's only option at this point is going to be af2. Personally, I don't see the AIFA West thing working out.

[AllAces]

Slick, what are the alternatives for SD? I had never even heard of the NIFL until this season. What league has any teams near SO CAL? Obviously other than the AFL 2.

The point from ALL ACES, if I had never heard of the NIFL how many other people fill the way I do? To bring in a small market league as this, will the fans continue the support the team? And will they give there support to a even smaller unknown league?

If you were to break it down from top to bottom as being the better known with promise, how do these leagues rate?

What is the closest league to the west coast?

One important thing I would throw out there is I don't think San Diego will lose fans just because they are in a smaller league. I think they would lose them if there were game cancellations and if they did not get to play the playoffs where they earned a solid place. You know, like this year.

[preeths]

The NIFL's way of doing business is not a secret anymore. They can't just set up shop in a community and expect the benefit of the doubt. They lost that privilege more than a year ago. Should SD remain in the NIFL, I would expect to see a substantial decline in media interest.

[gridirontime]

The NIFL's way of doing business is not a secret anymore. They can't just set up shop in a community and expect the benefit of the doubt. They lost that privilege more than a year ago. Should SD remain in the NIFL, I would expect to see a substantial decline in media interest.

A small decline? I trully believe thats all there ever was as for the media. I do not believe that the media did any favors for this team.

Unless you consider a 6 line blurb in the Sa Diego Union Tribune publicity. The only station who carried any small clips regarding this team was our local channel Fox 6, and that's probally because the sports guy CS Keys is the annoucer for the team.

Trust me this club needs to be in a league where it is considered a top rate league. Unless it's ok to draw 2000 to 3000 a game in a arena that seats 11,000. Remember this is San Diego where we have major league franchises already. Also this club competes with the Padres at times so if they want to make a little money and I'm sure they do, I suggest looking in a direction that would bring them some publicity and quality opponents.

[preeths]

Looks like you're going to get your wish:
http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3512965

However, Sprowls vows that the team will return, continuing to play the high-energy style of Shockwave football next season at Cox Arena, albeit in a different league. The Shockwave are examining the likes of af2 (the league the former San Diego Riptide played in), AIFA and UIF.

[exit322]

It's not the media's job to care about an indoor football team.

It's the football team's (and league's) job to make the media care.

[Freedom]

However, Sprowls vows that the team will return, continuing to play the high-energy style of Shockwave football next season at Cox Arena, albeit in a different league. The Shockwave are examining the likes of af2 (the league the former San Diego Riptide played in), AIFA and UIF.

Sadly, none of those leagues looks like a good fit for SD.

Af2 will bleed them dry and UIF/AIFA have nothing in the area to offer them.

[NatePreds05]

The af2 is actually the closest league travel-wise with 3 California teams, 2 in Washington, and one in Idaho. The AIFA and to a lesser extent UIF do not have the closer teams than that. So while af2 may have a higher joining fee (UIF's is not that much lower either), it is the closest geographically. San Diego did pretty well in the af2 before and that was before the westward explosion of teams. Also more western teams are on the way in the af2.

Also the af2 has lower pay for players than the UIF so that is cheaper also.

[Pounder]

My gut instinct is that "major league" market fans would tend to ask "why are we in af2 when we should be in AFL?"

It happens in Portland. I see little reason people wouldn't ask the same about San Diego.

Not to mention that I have my questions about the size of the surface at Cox being sufficient for the Arena folks.

[AllAces]

My gut instinct is that "major league" market fans would tend to ask "why are we in af2 when we should be in AFL?"

It happens in Portland. I see little reason people wouldn't ask the same about San Diego.

Not to mention that I have my questions about the size of the surface at Cox being sufficient for the Arena folks.

That is a good point. I was told that the end zones in Cox Arena were only about 3 yards deep and the dashers were sub-standard to the rules.

I am not trying to offend, just presenting Pounder's point.

I don't know anything about AIFA, but I know that AF2 is extremely ridged about the facilities. It may cost some investment money to make the room necessary to comply with those rules.

[gridirontime]

That is a good point. I was told that the end zones in Cox Arena were only about 3 yards deep and the dashers were sub-standard to the rules.

I am not trying to offend, just presenting Pounder's point.

I don't know anything about AIFA, but I know that AF2 is extremely ridged about the facilities. It may cost some investment money to make the room necessary to comply with those rules.

As for the endzones being only 3 yards, I don't believe thats true. It is sort of rounded at the corners and may be 4 yards there and a little bit bigger towards the middle , but it is diffently not AFL2 standard endzones. The dasherboards or side walls were all there though. The arena is wider than longer, so as to the seats from the arena they don't go all the way to the walls. They put folding seats in there and I did see that there is some work needed on that part.

When the Riptide was around there was talk of them moving there their last season into Cox arena, but all these same issue came up. Not sure what they found out about it , and they finished their final season at I pay one arena.

[phydeaux72]

So while af2 may have a higher joining fee (UIF's is not that much lower either)...

I'm not sure where you got your info. But, the af2 franchise fee and annual dues are more than 5 times that of the UIF.

[slickfriction]

Slick, what are the alternatives for SD? I had never even heard of the NIFL until this season. What league has any teams near SO CAL? Obviously other than the AFL 2.

The point from ALL ACES, if I had never heard of the NIFL how many other people fill the way I do? To bring in a small market league as this, will the fans continue the support the team? And will they give there support to a even smaller unknown league?

If you were to break it down from top to bottom as being the better known with promise, how do these leagues rate?

What is the closest league to the west coast?

Gridiron,

I know that the UIF has expressed interest in San Diego as well as the AF2. The problem, currently, is that the only two UIF teams close to San Diego are Billings, Montana and Loveland, Colorado. In order for San Diego to join the UIF the league would have to bring in more teams in this region for next season. I know that there is interest in creating teams in a couple of Arizona cities and there has been talk of trying to get one somewhere in the L.A. area. The San Bernardino NIFL team does have an individual owner currently and that is a possibility. Additionally, there has been talk about Tri-Valley as well. Available, cost effective venues are also a huge consideration.

The strongest indoor leagues, in order, would be AF1, AF2, and the UIF. The UIF has done very well this past season and the level of competition is very good. Billings, last year's NIFL champion, is finding much stiffer competition in the UIF. If the UIF continues it's momentum it won't be too long before the level of play begins to rival the AF2. The UIF plays the same rules as the NIFL with the exception of only allowing two men in motion to the LOS versus three in the NIFL.

As far as fan support goes, I think that as long as people know the league is viable and they get to watch two closely matched teams play versus the blow-outs witnessed in the NIFL, the interest will be there as there is a certain level of excitement about a live, indoor football game that you just don't get when watching an outdoor game. To watch the San Diego Chargers play at Qualcomm Stadium, a stadium designed for baseball, fans can feel very disconnected from the game as the field is so far away from even the closest seats. You can't beat being right on top of the action indoors. The NFL is made for television and luxury box sales, indoor football is made for the paying spectator.

So, to answer your question more directly, I think that as long as the fans know that their team is part of a credible league with credible opponents and the level of football is of high quality I think they will support the team. Additionally, the team must be successfully on the field, particularly here in San Diego as fans in this area tend to "ride the bandwagon" as evidenced by the Chargers success the past four years. Prior to their success it was not unusual to see Qualcomm Stadium only half full for a Chargers game. I think this is due, in large part, to the number of people who live in San Diego who are not from this area in addition to the number of other activities available to people in Southern California in general. Since indoor football is a very "fan friendly" game I don't see why it can not be successfully even in this area.

[arenaboy2006]

Questions:

Why does the league allow CG run the show?
Why did CG start so many teams and did not pay his staff and players
Why does the NIFL Start teams and allow that?
Is this not fraud?

I believe CG and Shriver are liers and are putting people into bankruptance

Let look at all the team?
She tells Montgomery that she would help them and they fall
Texas she tell them the same thing and they fall
Arkansas Team same thing
South Dakota team same thing
She tell the press that she does not know that there is any trouble come on?
Cleveland not paying his bills and he makes a statement that thing are going to be better....
The league was good at one time..... It could be if they just get out two people.

How is in the NIFL Beamount TX HA!!!

What Happen?

Look at Cleveland OH, South Dakota, Arkansas and FLa teams with Howard Neal!! Tell me when someone like this man comes to town and does what he does dont you think that you would not know him...... THERE MORE TO COME

[nksports]

Questions:
Why does the league allow CG run the show?
Why did CG start so many teams and did not pay his staff and players
Why does the NIFL Start teams and allow that?
Is this not fraud?

1. CG ran the show because CS said so.
2. CG thought he could sell the teams off before the season started, making lots of money without much initial investment (boy was he wrong).
3. Because CG and CS are either extremely stupid, extremely corrupt or some mixture thereof.
4. That would be for state and federal courts and agencies of many different types to decide, but IMHO, probably yes.

[arenaboy2006]

Why didnt CG have Work Comp on his team
Why does CS let CG run everything
So what happen to Roy Reed who was so involded in the NIFL?
How about Bailey OH! that right he had St Joe team in Missouri and he Bankrupter the same time owners that could not do anything with him. Meaning oh i will send money. That a Shiver thing to i will send money to team and they dont get help
The NIFL try to sue everyone but why does anyone sue them! What I have heard first hand they dont have any money!!!!

Credit the NIFL credit! HIGH RISK!!! LOT ON THE WEB FROM INVESTMENT GROUPS THAT RATE BUSINESS>>>>>>

WHY DONT THE NIFL GIVE OR LET SOMEONE ESLE RUN THE LEAGUE LIKE A BUSINESS SHOULD BE!! OH THAT RIGHT CG IS FRAUDING EVERYONE!! TELL ME WHO IS NUTS TO BUY A TEAM

IF YOU CALL THE NIFL ON THE PHONE GUESS WHAT ITS A FAMILY RUN BUSINESS> ASK AROUND CS FAMILY RUNS THE PLACE

WHO WOULD BUY A TEAM WHO KNOW BUT IF YOU CALL THEY WILL TELL YOU THAT THEY HAVE TEAM SOLD

[slickfriction]

1. CG ran the show because CS said so.
2. CG thought he could sell the teams off before the season started, making lots of money without much initial investment (boy was he wrong).
3. Because CG and CS are either extremely stupid, extremely corrupt or some mixture thereof.
4. That would be for state and federal courts and agencies of many different types to decide, but IMHO, probably yes.

CG's reasoning behind having league owned teams versus selling those teams to individual owners was driven by nothing but money. He figured that the NIFL would get through this season with the league owned teams such that he would then be able to sell them for more money to individual owners next season.

For those of you who would like to know what CG is all about just check out this link! http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=nfl/news/ABN1591887.htm

[gridirontime]

CG's reasoning behind having league owned teams versus selling those teams to individual owners was driven by nothing but money. He figured that the NIFL would get through this season with the league owned teams such that he would then be able to sell them for more money to individual owners next season.

For those of you who would like to know what CG is all about just check out this link! http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=nfl/news/ABN1591887.htm

Again Slick nice job!

Does anyone know when the last time CG was on this site? I would like for him to start a thread explainig or just even his thoughts about the league and where he sees it and to what happened this year.

:mrgreen: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[nksports]

Why didnt CG have Work Comp on his team
Why does CS let CG run everything

Question 1: That costs money.
Question 2: Nobody's been able to find her to ask her
Question 3 and beyond: Those are the great metaphysical mysteries no one has been able to solve.

[Pounder]

Put it this way... trying to start up 16 teams without investors and pray you can sell them off is something Joe Newman would actually NOT do. You can argue about previous Shriver and Gary corruption, but this year corruption gave way to pure stupidity and/or outright delusion. CG just seems like someone who believes you need HGH-fed beef, helmets and pads, a pointy ball, and something approaching turf and people will throw money straight at it. Apparently not.