A new WCHL?

[aardvark]

Does anyone think that the west coast teams in the ECHL will get together and start up the WCHL again? There are more teams out west than there were before, and a regional league in the west might be good for teams in that it would keep travel costs down somewhat, and the rivalries are still there as well (except, of course, for San Diego). Any ideas as to whether it would work, and has anyone heard any rumors about it? Just curious...

[Pounder]

The old WCHL was beset with stability problems that, oddly enough, the ECHL solved. The notion of affiliation (and I stress notion because I tend to think the affiliations are in name only) gives the teams out west some purpose. Reforming the WCHL would have to involve NHL teams following them in. Until there are assurances of this, I doubt anything will happen.

Frankly, I doubt the west will want to break away anyway... simply because the expansion/relocation options (which you always have to have) are limited thanks to the strength of both the Central Hockey League (in relative terms) and Major Junior in the Northwest (in more absolute terms).

[Shootmaster_44]

The old WCHL was beset with stability problems that, oddly enough, the ECHL solved. The notion of affiliation (and I stress notion because I tend to think the affiliations are in name only) gives the teams out west some purpose. Reforming the WCHL would have to involve NHL teams following them in. Until there are assurances of this, I doubt anything will happen.

Frankly, I doubt the west will want to break away anyway... simply because the expansion/relocation options (which you always have to have) are limited thanks to the strength of both the Central Hockey League (in relative terms) and Major Junior in the Northwest (in more absolute terms).

The affiliations are perhaps in name only with the West Coast teams. But I do know the Reading Royals play host to a few LA Kings prospects each year. This past year Yutaka Fukufuji, Barry Brust, Greg Hogeboom and Dany Roussin all played for Reading. As well LA Kings prospect Danny Taylor bounced between Bakersfield, Texas and Vegas I believe.

[sportsguy12]

The affiliations are perhaps in name only with the West Coast teams. But I do know the Reading Royals play host to a few LA Kings prospects each year. This past year Yutaka Fukufuji, Barry Brust, Greg Hogeboom and Dany Roussin all played for Reading. As well LA Kings prospect Danny Taylor bounced between Bakersfield, Texas and Vegas I believe.

should be added to the ECHL mix. Why would teams join then leave the ECHL. That doesn't make any sense. The ECHL should absorb the SPHL teams to bolster their Southern ranks.

[OneBetter]

should be added to the ECHL mix. Why would teams join then leave the ECHL. That doesn't make any sense. The ECHL should absorb the SPHL teams to bolster their Southern ranks.

I completely agree with you on both fronts. The Tacoma Sabercats were a great franchise and very competitive back in the old WCHL. The Tucson city council recently approved the construction of a new downtown arena, so they'd be an excellent candidate for a team when that gets built. The SPHL teams, while currently playing at arguably a lower "A" level of hockey, would definitely boost the ECHL's south exposure and help with travel.

I'd like to see a few more teams out west. What about Sacramento? Arco arena is pretty big, but if it has ice-making facilities, it could be used with the top deck not used. Colorado Springs crashed and burned the first time around, but that's a pretty large market as well. Ontario, CA would be a good market when their arena is built. San Diego is a great market and drew well when they had a team. I'd like to see a team back there.

[aardvark]

Thanks for the responses. I had not heard anything--I was just checking to see if anyone had. Now, my only concern is that any CHL expansion might come at the expense of the ECHL. You can only have a finite number of AA hockey teams, and that just makes it harder for a city like San Diego to get back into the mix, especially with the long-term stability of the Sports Arena in San Diego in question. With no new arena in the forseeable future, it seems like it could be many years before we get another franchise.

[sportsguy12]

Thanks for the responses. I had not heard anything--I was just checking to see if anyone had. Now, my only concern is that any CHL expansion might come at the expense of the ECHL. You can only have a finite number of AA hockey teams, and that just makes it harder for a city like San Diego to get back into the mix, especially with the long-term stability of the Sports Arena in San Diego in question. With no new arena in the forseeable future, it seems like it could be many years before we get another franchise.

the situation in San Diego (they were the third team besides Tacoma and Tucson that I meant to add to my list of teams the ECHL should add). It seems like the Gulls did OK when there was a second tenant in the building (af2) but that the arena owners don't want to open things up for just one team. I know USC left as well for their on-campus arena.


This would be an ideal scenario for standings out west:

ECHL National Conference
Northwest Division
Tacoma Sabercats
Alaska Aces
Victoria Salmon Kings
Idaho Steelheads
Colorado

Pacific Division
Fresno Falcons
San Diego
Bakersfield Condors
Stockton Thunder
Long Beach/Ontario, CA

Midwest Division
Phoenix Roadrunners
Tucson
Las Vegas Wranglers
Utah Grizzlies
Reno

[Geoff]

Here's an idea I came up with a few months back to see what could happen if Hockey in North America had relegation and promotion like European soccer. What do you guys think?

North American Hockey Federation

Premier League (NHL) (30 Teams)
Anaheim Ducks
Atlanta Thrashers
Boston Bruins
Buffalo Sabres
Calgary Flames
Carolina Hurricanes
Chicago Blackhawks
Colorado Avalanche
Columbus Blue Jackets
Dallas Stars
Detroit Red Wings
Edmonton Oilers
Florida Panthers
Los Angeles Kings
Minnesota Wild
Montreal Canadiens
Nashville Predators
New Jersey Devils
New York Islanders
New York Rangers
Ottawa Senators
Philadelphia Flyers
Phoenix Coyotes
Pittsburgh Penguins
San Jose Sharks
St. Louis Blues
Tampa Bay Lightning
Toronto Maple Leafs
Vancouver Canucks
Washington Capitals

Elite League (AHL) (29 Teams)
Albany River Rats
Binghamton Senators
Bridgeport Sound Tigers
Chicago Wolves
Grand Rapids Griffins
Hamilton Bulldogs
Hartford Wolfpack
Hershey Bears
Houston Aeros
Iowa Stars
Lake Erie (Cleveland, OH) Monsters
Lowell Devils
Manitoba Moose
Milwaukee Admirals
Norfolk Admirals
Omaha Ak-Sar-Ben Knights
Peoria Rivermen
Philadelphia Phantoms
Portland Pirates
Providence Bruins
Quad City Flames
Rochester Americans
Rockford IceHogs
San Antonio Rampage
Springfield Falcons
Syracuse Crunch
Toronto Marlies
Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins
Worcester Sharks

Developmental League (EHL/CHL/PHL) (48 Teams)
Eastern Hockey League (17 Teams)
Augusta Lynx
Charlotte Checkers
Cincinnati Cyclones
Columbia Inferno
Dayton Bombers
Elmira Jackals
Florida Everblades
Gwinnett Gladiators
Johnstown Chiefs
Memphis Riverkings
Mississippi Sea Wolves
Pensacola Ice Pilots
Reading Royals
South Carolina Stingrays
Trenton Devils
Wheeling Nailers
Youngstown Steelhounds

Central Hockey League (16 Teams)
Austin Ice Bats
Bloomington Prairie Thunder
Bossier-Shreveport Mudbugs
Corpus Christi Rayz
Flint Generals
Fort Wayne Komets
Kalamazoo K-Wings
Laredo Bucks
Muskegon Fury
Oklahoma City Blazers
Port Huron Icehawks
Rio Grande Valley Killer Bees
Texas Brahmas
Texas Wildcatters
Tulsa Oilers
Wichita Thunder

Pacific Hockey League (15 Teams)
Alaska Aces
Amarillo Gorillas
Arizona Sundogs
Bakersfield Condors
Colorado Eagles
Fresno Falcons
Idaho Steelheads
Las Vegas Wranglers
New Mexico Scorpions
Odessa Jackalopes
Phoenix Roadrunners
Rocky Mountain Rage
Stockton Thunder
Utah Grizzlies
Victoria Salmon Kings


I've been trying to break the AA level into 4 leagues. If I get it worked out I'll post that here.

Presenting the 4 League format featuring the Eastern Hockey League, the Southern Hockey League, the Central Hockey League, and the Pacific Hockey League.

Eastern Hockey League (14)
---------------------------
Bloomington Prairie Thunder
Cincinnati Cyclones
Dayton Bombers
Elmira Jackals
Flint Generals
Fort Wayne Komets
Johnstown Chiefs
Kalamazoo Wings
Muskegon Fury
Port Huron Icehawks
Reading Royals
Trenton Devils
Wheeling Nailers
Youngstown Steelhounds

Southern Hockey League (12)
---------------------------
Augusta Lynx
Bossier-Shreveport Mudbugs
Charlotte Checkers
Columbia Inferno
Corpus Christi Rayz
Florida Everblades
Gwinnett Gladiators
Memphis Riverkings
Mississippi Sea Wolves
Pensacola Ice Pilots
South Carolina Stingrays
Texas Wildcatters

Central Hockey League (11)
---------------------------
Amarillo Gorillas
Austin Ice Bats
Colorado Eagles
Laredo Bucks
Odessa Jackalopes
Oklahoma City Blazers
Rio Grande Valley Killer Bees
Rocky Mountain Rage
Texas Brahmas
Tulsa Oilers
Wichita Thunder

Pacific Hockey League (11)
---------------------------
Alaska Aces
Arizona Sundogs
Bakersfield Condors
Fresno Falcons
Idaho Steelheads
Las Vegas Wranglers
New Mexico Scorpions
Phoenix Roadrunners
Stockton Thunder
Utah Grizzlies
Victoria Salmon Kings

[nksports]

Here's an idea I came up with a few months back to see what could happen if Hockey in North America had relegation and promotion like European soccer. What do you guys think?

I've always liked the idea of relegation, but I don't think the US sports market (especially sponsors and TV) would ever accept it. Owners would never buy it. Imagine the response of, say a, George Steinbrenner demanding state tax money for a new stadium while his team is in last place.
If (in theory) the Wichita Thunder made it all the way to the NHL, would the NHL want to play in 9,000-seat, cruddy old Kansas Coliseum without luxury boxes and all the other bells and whistles? Would the NHL want to play in Hershey PA or Veterans Coliseum in Fort Wayne? Or how about where the Austin Ice Bats or the revived Fort Worth team will play?

[Pounder]

Tacoma- no. Since the Seattle Thunderbirds will be moving to Kent in a year and change, that almost precludes any thought Tacoma may have had of building a small enough arena so that ECHL wouldn't have to pay the rent in the T-Dome. T-Dome is just too damn big. A new arena should have happened long before Kent snuck in, but even then, one wonders if fans would prefer WHL.

Tucson- will the CHL trump the ECHL? Will any of it matter in a U of A town, new arena or no? Will the arena ever really get built? Will U of A make hockey a varsity sport and try to control the arena? Perhaps I sound negative about this without good reason, but something here just doesn't add up. The WAY in which Tucson has failed at hockey in the past really makes me question why anyone would try again.

San Diego- if the old arena is getting mothballed or torn down or whatever, who's going to come up with a new one when leaders expect an NBA-size arena? Can Cox have an ice plant and serve beer? This is going to be a long time waiting, folks.

Ontario- yes. Sure. BTW, a LOT smarter than trying to revive Long Beach. At least the IE has their own radio stations on which a decent marketing campaign could be affordably employed... maybe.

Sacramento- unless they're going to steal the Thunder from Stockton, no. Sac and Stock and Modesto are one TV market... and, really, pretty much the same radio market as well. Mind you, the area is growing, but I don't have the warmest fuzzy about this. Besides, any hockey worth watching in Sac depends on a new arena for the Kings, and we can guess the odds on that coming about anytime soon, not to mention who has control if it gets built.

Reno- was trying to steal funds earmarked for AAA baseball to improve the Livestock / Rodeo Arena to fit a hockey team. The baseball proposal is still around. Again, don't hold your breath.

What I really should be saying, and to this point haven't... the revolution against public funding of arenas has started. Mostly out west. Note that Ontario and Kent are just sneaking in, and I'm sure someone else will manage one or two more exceptions to the rule (and I wonder if Tucson will really be one of them), but that's a bigger obstacle than anyone here gives credit for.

[aardvark]

San Diego's problem is the current arena is the ONLY place available with ice-making capabilities. Cox Arena doesn't have it, and it wasn't designed for it. The floor area is way too small. More important, about the beer at Cox; they do serve beer there--just not for Aztec events in the arena, as per state law.

[S.Sox]

Well Reno might still be afloat!! The "Legends at Sparks Marina" was shot down for the AAA baseball stadium, so they are very close to announcing a multi use arena that would sit about 8000-10000. Hockey & D-league NBA basketball as new tenants.
We'll know more soon...
S.Sox

[S.Sox]

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070726/SPORTS/707260348/1018

[HockeyRulez]

The ECHL needs to find a way to get rid of the Western Conference, they really just put a strain on the whole league. You can tell besides the ADD of Ontario the league really doesnt care about the West(and I don't blame them based on wherethe majority of the league is and the league office)