What About the Umps?

[FlyerFan]

OK, this is about those little guys in the blue shirts that we all love to hate... is it just me or do we seem to have the worst ones ever this year? At least if they were consistant it wouldn't be so bad. Have they even been to school? Where do we get thse guys?!?! :mad:

[Silver Sox Fan]

Careful, flyer fan...you might get ejected and then be forced to umpire a game as your punishment :)

Actually, I think the issues are compounded by the fact that there are only two so it makes for more close and potentially questionable calls. Even Ben Deach, the Sox announcer, says he never thinks he'll see a close pick off play result in an out because of that.

And of course, there is the famous story or Mark Parent from Chico, telling the umps whose previous experience was at the H.S. level that he felt bad for the H.S. kids in the area.

But, in their defense, I have always had the mentality that if a team didn't put themselves in a position to lose a game based on one call, then they wouldn't have to worry about it. Until the pitching gets much better in the league (i.e. ERAs and WHIP are all generally really high) and defense gets markedly better then even a few bad calls aren't the reasons for the losses.

[dominator1212]

As a season ticket holder and even have been to a few away games I totally agree with Flyer Fan about the terrible umpireing. Not only on the bases but also at the plate.

I have been watching the GBL since the beginning and yes it does get worse from year to year. Are they watched by a supervisor like they are in any other league?

I would hope the league would add a 3rd umpire ASAP.

[GBLCommish]

Hello Flyerfan and Dominator1212,

Thanks for your questions about the umpires, here's some additional information regarding the GBL umps:

- All GBL umpires have collegiate experience, and all but a very few have professional experience. The famous quote that Silver Sox Fan refers to was actually made to a AAA experienced umpire that, in Mark Parent's opinion, was having a bad night so instead of cursing him he creatively compared him to a high school umpire.

- GBL umpires, like the players/managers/front office staff/etc., are in independent pro baseball but aspire to move up in their careers. Like the players, you get some that are very good and move on (we have a number that have gone on to minor league assignments), some that have off nights as they improve their skill level and consistency, and a few that aren't ready for the league and are no longer utilized once that becomes apparent. Also, like the players, you have many that have umpired at high levels in the minors, and even in the major leagues, and are aspiring to get back. The merger of NL and AL umpire crews into a single MLB umpire pool a few years back dramatically reduced the number of big league umpire jobs that pushed down through the minors.

- The GBL utilizes 2 man crews, which is standard in minor league baseball in most leagues. In fact, 2-man crews are used by 14 of the 19 affiliated minor leagues and by almost all of the independent leagues. We used 3-man crews in our first year and occasionally last season, but have actually seen complaints and ejections decrease (I know, I've heard that one that says that's because there are 33% less umpires on the field to make bad calls...).

- We employ a Supervisor of Officials, Dan Perugini, who schedules the umpires and also monitors their peformance. He is constantly attending games, evaluating, and training the GBL umpires. Much like a roving instructor does with players in a major league farm system. Most of our umpires have attended the Harry Wendelstedt, Jim Evans, or Western States Umpire Combine schools and training centers. We also use the Arizona Winter League to train and evaluate newer umpires. GBL umpires are men that have spent many years and countless hours and games in training and preparation and have been recognized as top umpires as they've progressed through the levels of the profession just to get to be assigned to collegiate contests, and even more for those with pro experience.

I know it can be frustrating when an umpire misses a call or is having a bad night (not only for the players, but the fans as well) and that certainly happens since we use humans to officiate this sport, and there are different skill levels amongst our umpire pool. It stands out when an umpire is off just because they are so usually correct in what they do -- plus for some reason crowds just love a chance to get on the umps (some kind of mob psychology at work, I guess).

That's a pretty detailed description of the GBL umpire program and my thoughts, but if you have concerns or complaints about a specific umpire, please email me at commish@goldenbaseball.com and we can discuss it privately. We have had to terminate umpires in the GBL in both of the last two seasons for performance or lack of judgment issues.

Oh, and one last thing that would be great to hear at GBL games -- next game you go to where the umpires do a good job, shout out a "Nice work tonight, Blue!" as they leave the field.

Best Regards,
Kevin Outcalt
Commissioner
Golden Baseball League
925-226-2896
commish@goldenbaseball.com

[S.Sox]

Commish,
Once again..great information for the fans of the GBL...
Thanks
S.Sox:cool:

[peeaanuut]

Commish:

That was a really good "canned" response to the ump issue. The reality is that the league is too cheap to pay for good umps and gets high school level if that umps. I mean charging the umps to umpire in the Winter league, are you kidding me???? I watched a pitcher balk 17 times yesterday before Darrell Evans went out there to explain the game of baseball to this 2 retards you had on the field. Who was of course tossed out because he marred up their pretty little shoes.

Sure other leagues use 2 umps, but they have good umps. A game can be ran by 2 experience umps, not by the pairs of underpaid/overworked/way underexperience guys the league has hired. Just recently you had the same ump with a certain team for 11 games straight.

Another effect of the leagues "cost" savings and lies.

[padsfan2]

There should be a turn-over soon with the umpiring teams in the GBL, if the grocery store clerks go on strike, they will have a new crop of people to choose from.

[peeaanuut]

"tag check on 3rd please!"

[FlyerFan]

And no "Do-Overs" at the market, can you imagine how long a discussion they would have on price checks?!?

[DawgsBooster2]

You just have to love this board. If nothing else the fans are the honest ones!

This league may have folded if not for the FIRE SALE of Fullerton to keep money in the bank account. Then for good measure they sold St. George too!

I am guessing that with expansion, which they can not afford, and investors on their backs looking for a return, this league is headed to the INDY GRAVEYARD in the next 2 years.

Then the High Schools will get their umps back ..... oops I mean the Grocery store will get their clerks and baggers back!

Well, golly.

This is about the least constructive post I've ever read.

[S.Sox]

DawgsBooster,
I could not agree more!!!!:eek:

[ChicoManiac]

Ditto....embarrasing post.....can't take their opinions or posts seriously as it just seems to be an id used for bashing.

[jaydensdadaz]

Peanut, PDiddy, PDiddles whoever you are, if you are such a stud and want to bash on the GBL umpires and the league, I would love to see you mr. smooth out there on the field umping and i'd pay to see you ump, remember these guys are humans just like you and I and aren't perfect. I can say that they are doing there job as good as could be expected and are getting better as time goes on, for god sake can you say anything good about the league, do you go from league to league bashing or are you disgruntled? I love that you say the league will be around only two more years, well we were told we wouldn't make year one, then year two and guess what Peeaannuuttt we are on year three (3), can ya read my lips and the #3, I hope you ump better then you predict, I'm so sorry I'm harsh but everyone in this room has nothing better to do then bash, so whats it going to be when we go past the next two years Peanut, are you going to go out on a limb again and say two more years, before you let your big mouth keep getting bigger get your facts straight and then post ok.
Peanut, now on the winter league since you know so much about us and please listen as god gave you two (2) ears and one (1) mouth so listen up, the winter league is an instructional league, do you know what that is? It's a league that instructs players, umps etc and we have the best person out there for the umps and the best managers out there for the players, so peanut will you come out of the goodness of your heart and instruct for free for 5 weeks, I DON"T THINK SO! These umps paid and the players paid and they signed a lot to contracts from both categories, so please wake up and smell the coffee and go bash another league that you think will fail.

[S.Sox]

jaydensdadaz,
Again Ditto!!
I must say I have vented on my concerns about the Reno administration regarding the promos/lack of kids club & bad communication with fans.... but I still enjoy the GBL product & happy to have them in Reno..
What other league has the league Commish on the blogs answering questions of the fans! He has also worked to improve the Reno situation!! Kudos to the Commish and the league for continuing to try..
S.Sox

[peeaanuut]

First of all you have no idea who I am. I have never bashed another league and up until this year I have no even said anything about the league. But I am starting to see how the league is run and it is quite disgusting. The past 3 years from day 1, I have supported LB and the players. I still support the players and th coaches, but the front office of the League and some of their decisions are quite horrible.

I am not blaming the umps for the bad calls, I am blaming the league for choosing inexperience umps in the first place. of course they are human and of course they are learning, but why would the league, that wants to be seen as a formidable home for baseball, choose just out of school umps with little to no experience. Than make them work 10+ games in a row for little to no pay. Noone in that situation can work good.

As far as the way LB is run, it all comes down to Steve Bash. He has destroyed 1 team in LB, he is trying to destroy this team. If things keep going the way they are and the league continues to falsify their numbers the league will go down. I never said 2 years in the first year. I knew that the GBL had a 3 year lease with LB for Blair Field and I knew the league had plans to go to at least their 3rd year. I do say that if things do not improve we will not have a team in the next 2 years. Decisions like the one to hire Jose Conseco and Steve Bash only hurt the league in the local market, which is where their money comes from. The Armada has a bad history with sponsors and alot of fans based on League decisions from day 1. One that needs to be improved badly.

Personally, I love having local baseball and have been to every game in the last 3 years at home and just finished a road trip to Utah. I love this league which is why it disgusts me when I see poor decisions by the League front office and than suggestions being tossed out that would help the league. Stuff that is so minute but because Kaval and Patel didnt think of it, they blow it off like a birthday candle. Failed promises and lies only grow deceit from fans. Im sorry that you think everything is fine, but it is clearly not fine. I am glad that Kevin has worked to get the other teams in check and improve their situation, but that is clearly not happening in LB which of course is my main focus.

From what I understand, things in OC are going quite good with their new owner and attendance seems to be up. In Utah the attendance was quite low but some of that can be attributed to their record as of late.

When e-mails directly to the people making the decision are blown off and not answered or halfway excuses are created to answer an issue there is a problem. I would rather hear, "That kind of info is available to the public" instead of "well, the decision was based on blah blah blah blah blah" that is clearly made up.


Jaydenswhateveryournameis: I never said I was a better ump or ball player. But I know the league can do better in the ump department because they have in the past. The quality of the umps has gone downhill due to cuts in money that the league is will to put out. When there were 3 umps on the field in the first season, the calls were quite spot on. Even last year when they cut down to 2 umps, the guys on the field were much better at getting into the proper viewing location. They were much better at anticipating the play on the field to set themselves up to make better calls. It is quite clear that the umps are very inexperienced this season. Forgetting counts, changed calls, clearly missing calls and there are a handful with egos that take arguing so personally that they toss out managers/players almost immediately. Heck they tossed out an announcer.

As far as running the front office, I have no experience running a sports team, but I have managed teams of employees for years and am excellent at motivating employees, puting them into the position that best sets them up for success and creating a successful work environment. When a manager tells employees that its his way or the highway, there is an issue. Or when a manager comes in and cusses at his employees because they voice an opinion, there is a problem.


Winterleague: If I had the time and the skill to instruct I most certainly would do it for free. I do that in other areas of expertise that i have now at no cost to others.

Overall you apparently have blinders on as I have said plenty of good things about the league on msg boards, to the local papers and to members of the local community. But if there ever was a forum to vent issues with the league this is it. You said yourself that league officials read this board and have acted upon issues and concerns that have been brought up. Why wouldnt I present issues here?

I will be surprised if you actually read any of this as you are clearly one sided in your thinking.

[S.Sox]

P-Nut,
Nice clarification, it's obvious your are trully a GBL/LB fan who is just fed up!!
We all just want to see the GBL succeed while we enjoy the teams we follow, instead of begging for imformation & entertainment at our local parks.
P-nut things have improved in Reno, it will happen in LB...
S.Sox

[Pounder]

Listening to Colin Cowherd this morning. Frankly, I've been listening to less of him lately because he sometimes embraces "train wreck radio," but I thought this was a decent nugget.

First, he recalled a favorite quote of his from a comedian (name slips my mind): if women knew what men were thinking, they'd slap us 24 hours a day.

Then (probably in reference to the steroid issue, but Colin suggested a broader view)... "if you saw what happens with these leagues, you'd hate sports." Since he's talking about the majors, you can imagine what happens lower down in the food chain.

I think I can tell that the commissioner smooths over some thorny issues around here, and there's obviously been and shall be trouble with this league. Problem is, in my warped view, most suggestions for improvements are either unattainable due to the budget available, or are suggested by core fans under the mistaken impression that others will act like core fans. I'm probably not in any better position to help, unless at least half of you are ready to leave your current cities of residence to follow your teams (and relocation guarantees nothing). I don't envy Mr. Outcalt's position.

The burning question: do you hold on to what you have knowing that it probably will never be fully funded, or do you hold out the hope that you can find richer people who might (or might not) actually want to do this when it has been apparent that such people either don't exist or, to this point, have chosen not to participate?

[RW22]

S. Sox....you are quite right--we are all GBL/baseball fans. I am glad things are getting better up there. If ya bark long and hard enough, things do change slowly. It just amazes me that it takes a messege board to actually get things done. In your case, has the problem of no responses from local management changed? I know the Commish reads this board, and I am grateful that he does respond. But, why is it that we need to take our concerns here? If local management cant take care of its fans....why keep them around? It is very frustrating that needs are not met, bills dont get paid ( I know of a few staff people in Long Beach who have only been paid for opening night---ummm, that was a MONTH ago), and yet they tell US, the fans, to be patient. It wears thin after seeing the same problems for the third year in a row---again, look at this board-are we talking about front offices and problems, or are we talking about the players, the teams and our rewspective chances to make the playoffs......sadly, we are not!

[Pietsch Fan]

I just want to add that I totally feel peeaanuut's pain. We were in the same situation last year and vented our butts off over here. None of us believed Mesa and Surprise while they were crying the first year, but everything they complained about was eventually proven true. Same with us last year. All of our complaints were legitimate and eventually proven true as we closed down like Mesa and Surprise before us.

I know peeaanuut has been an Armada fan and booster since day one. Like us he probably has heard and seen things the normal fan doesn't. Hopefully his outcome won't be the same as ours, but in the meantime he has the right to point out the obvious and draw all the conclusions he wants to. Only time will tell who's right and who's wrong, but history shows us he's probably more right than wrong.

And jaydensdadaz, I totally expect you to defend the league. Your team, your management and your personal experience are probably the exact opposite of what peeaanuut is seeing and what we saw last year. That's absolutely fine and your right, but I think you could have been less harsh in your attack on peeaanuut. I've met you and peeaanutt and know you're a both nice guys, so I was able to chalk it up to frustration, but other people might have seen it as a gross overreaction and a bit of bullying.

Mary

[jaydensdadaz]

I did read this peanut and if i'm to harsh i'm sorry but you are wrong talking about Kaval and Patel. I did come off hard but you know what I will defend the league and the players as we are family and yes Pietsch fan I am nice and we are working out all the kinks, do we have growing pains, absolutely. But please don't bash us and talk about us, give us constructive criticism and help us work through it. What happened in LB i'm sorry and I can't control that, what happens here in Yuma we can control and fix and pietsch fan will tell you we run a pretty tight ship here.

[DawgsBooster2]

What happened in LB i'm sorry and I can't control that, what happens here in Yuma we can control and fix and pietsch fan will tell you we run a pretty tight ship here.

You guys over in Yuma do run a tight ship. We've always had fun when we've been up there and fans can see that the staff are having fun doing their jobs and are enjoying themselves while they work. But it's unfortunately not true across the board.

Let's hope that some of what you guys in Yuma offer the fans can migrate over to the other teams. I'd love to see that happen.

Maybe a corporate meeting of the minds in the off season where you guys can show the rest of the GBL front offices how you do what you do. That would be cool.

Also, I get the same "good times" vibe up in Flyers country and Chico.

Seems as if the problems are, right now, in LB and Reno only.

Though, admittedly we've heard precious little from our St. George family members.

[peeaanuut]

I did read this peanut and if i'm to harsh i'm sorry but you are wrong talking about Kaval and Patel. I did come off hard but you know what I will defend the league and the players as we are family and yes Pietsch fan I am nice and we are working out all the kinks, do we have growing pains, absolutely. But please don't bash us and talk about us, give us constructive criticism and help us work through it. What happened in LB i'm sorry and I can't control that, what happens here in Yuma we can control and fix and pietsch fan will tell you we run a pretty tight ship here.



How did I bash you? I dont even know who you are. My complaints have been about 3 people. Kaval, Patel and Bash. I know that the experience in Yuma is good. I was there for a series last season. Other than it being hotter than heck it was a good game. As a photographer I was a little dissapointed in the lighting but its a good field and the staff was pleasent. Heck you guys rushed pretty quickly when someone got hit in the head with a ball. Nearly knocked the guy out. I dont even think I said anything bad about any other team. YOu might want to reread what I have written.

As far as the 3 that I mentioned, I have given idea upon idea upon idea and the only time anything was answered was when I aired some issues to Amit about the previous LB GM, Jared Florin and those were taken care of. Other than that one issue, nothing else has been acted on or even addressed.

[xmasman]

Whatever the reasons, the Golden league has the worst umpires of any professional league.I've SEEN professional baseball thruout the country. The reality is plain and simple. Umpires should not be the topic of every game. I've been to 19 games this year. Only 3 of the 19 games were we not talking about how terrible the umpires were.

The bottom line, if you had respect for baseball, if you had respect for your league, if you had respect for the managers and coaches, the fans and most importantly, if you had respect for the players...you would do something immediately to remedy your problem!

As a fan I'm insulted to hear you say the umpires have AAA, AA AND A Ball experience. I can be as specific as you'd like me to be. My problem is it would take me pages to share with you on this blog examples of what I 've seen this year compliments of you.

I would like to see the Golden League succeed for many reasons. Short of BS, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO REMEDY THIS PROBLEM.

A FAN.

[ChicoManiac]

I have seen improvement with the umpire crews that have been in Chico this year....it has improved from last year when we had some younger guys occasionally...even though Mark Parent has gotten tossed twice...but he usually leads the GBL in ejections so that's not a surprise.

I recognize one of the crews from the Western Baseball League days...Grays and Richmond their names sound like when announced....also a couple of umpires who do the Chico State games...we had ex-Pacific Coast League Triple-A umpire Bill Hays for our late June homestand....he did a number of games here last year also....went to Reno on July 3rd for the Silver Sox and Outlaws and they had Hays and major league umpire Ron Barnes for the series...Barnes was behind the plate when Lenny Dykstra beat up the Dodger catcher in the early 90s at Dodger Stadium.

Although I do love to give them a hard time....just can't help myself...

[xmasman]

I was in Chico and saw the games umpired by x-major league umpire and his colleague. There is a reason scores like 12-11 happen. He may have been in the majors but there is a reason he's not there now. Don't be so quick to blame the pitchers as the Commissioner has stated. There are some good looking/talented pitchers in this league who are being destroyed by the lack quality umpiring in the Golden League. He ( x-major leaguer ) obviously had problems adjusting to unified strike zone. His calling of balls and strikes was ridiculous.

Golden League needs to assess its umpires regularly. Who cares who somebody used to be.

The credibility of this league is questionable when you see a game managed by two individuals who cannot stay up with the quickness of the game, and there working knowlege of the game is not tranferred to the decision making that must accure so quickly with only two umpires on the field.

While at a game recently, I approached a general manager of one of the teams. I asked some questions about umpiring. One of his answers was that the commisssioner had told him if he did not like the umpiring he could hire his own umpires at his teams expense for his home games. To his credit that GM SAID NO TO THAT IDEAL.

I'm beginning to believe the following. The commissioner and his original owners have decided, they need to cut expenses. This year they cut budget for players salaries. Pretty obvious they cut pay of umpires. So we have cut the pay of the umpires, thereby allowing weekend warriors to manage the games.

In conclusion, the umpiring in Chico is no different than anywhere else in the league. On the whole, the umpiring stinks!

[DCNationals]

HIRE YOUR OWN UMPIRES FOR YOUR HOME GAMES???? Heck yes I would do that. And, by a strange coincidence, I think my team would have a 40-0 home record.