AFL EXPANSION TEAMS 2005

[fan6]

THESE three cities appear as vitual locks too gain AFL FRANCHISES in 2005, WASHINGTON, ST-LOUIS, and
NASHVILLE. The expansion draft to stock these teams
figures too be one of the best in the history of
the league.

[jayme2008]

The only one that is a lock is washington.Nashville is still up in the air the group behind that team is either going to the arena football route or the nll the latest word is they are leaning towards the nll.

[hawk185md]

DANIEL SNYDER IS HAVING TROUBLE LOOKING FOR A HOME FOR HIS ARENA FOOTBALL TEAM.

NASHVILLE IS UP IN THE AIR.

ST. LOUIS - A POSSIBILITY

[Houston Caldwell]

HAS THE NASHVILLE GROUP EVER THOUGHT ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF AFL2 IN NASHVILLE?THE BIGGEST HURDLE TO OVERCOME FOR BRINGING THE AFL BACK TO NASHVILLE HAS BEEN THE DIFFICULTY IN WORKING OUT AN AGREEMENT WITH THE NHL PREDATORS FOR THE LEASE OF THE GAYLORD ENTERTAINMENT CENTER THAT WOULD ALLOW AN AFL FRANCHISE TO BE PROFITABLE. ON THE OTHER HAND,BELMONT UNIVERSITY AND LIPSCOMB UNIVERSITY HAVE BOTH RECENTLY BUILT BEAUTIFUL NEW ARENAS FOR THEIR MID-MAJOR DIVISION 1 BASKETBALL PROGRAMS.BOTH ARENAS SEAT ABOUT 5000 FANS,AND APPEAR TO BE ABOUT THE RIGHT SIZE FOR AN AFL2 FRANCHISE.THE NEW NASHVILLE RHYTHM OF THE ABA WILL BE PLAYING THIS WINTER AT LIPSCOMB UNIVERSITYS ALLEN ARENA.AFL2 MIGHT MAKE MORE SENSE THAN CONTINUED DEAD-END NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE PREDATORS FOR THE USE OF GEC.

[Magnum357]

Very interesting idea. I got a question though, are these two facilities big enough too fit an Arena size feiild in (50 yard feilds with 8 yard endzones)? Maybe an AF2 franchise would work well in Nashville.

[Houston Caldwell]

PROPS AND KUDOS TO MAGNUM 357 FOR AN INTELLIGENT POINT. AS YOU MIGHT IMAGINE, I HAVENT VISITED CURB OR ALLEN ARENAS WIH MY TAPE MEASURE. HOWEVER,IT PROBABLY WOULDNT HURT IF ONE OF THE NASHVILLE INVESTMENT GROUP DID. I THINK THAT THE SUCCESS OF THE TITANS AND PREDATORS SATISFIES NASHVILLES LUST TO BE A "BIG LEAGUE CITY",AND NASHVILLE CAN NOW MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT OTHER SPORTS BASED ON WHETHER THEY MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE.THE NASHVILLE (BASEBALL) SOUNDS WERE ACTUALLY MORE SUCCESSFUL AT THE GATE AS A AA FRANCHISE THAN THEY HAVE BEEN AS A AAA FRANCHISE.THE REASON? AS A AA FRANCHISE,WE HAD RIVALRYS WITH OTHER TENNESSEE CITIES,AND OUR TEAM ROSTERS WERE STABLE THROUGHOUT THE SEASON,ALLOWING OUR BEST PLAYERS TO DEVELOP FAN FOLLOWINGS.NOW,AN OUTSTANDING SOUNDS PLAYER WILL BE PROMOTED TO THE BIG-LEAGUE ROSTER BEFORE MOST OF OUR FANS LEARN HIS NAME.

[Micro67]

St. Louis should get another AFL team (remember the Stampede?). Right now St. Charles has the Believers, owned in part by Lou Brock, but I don't know if they are getting any meat in the seats.

The Kiel would be a great venue (it was before).

[Shootmaster_44]

My big question with any league granting expansion teams is why go back to cities where teams have failed in the past? In St. Louis and Nashville's case I'm not sure the circumstances. But isn't Detroit suffering the same problems with attendance that the old Drive suffered in their last years? I realize that the AFL is a different league since these teams existed but still. There are plenty of markets that haven't had teams before that could support them before the AFL needs to run back to cities that have had failed franchises.

My short list of cities that to the best of knowledge never had AFL teams but deserve them:
Seattle
Boston
Cincinnati
Kansas City
Saskatoon (not really but that's where I'm from and we could support a team here, we'd be like Iowa was)

Out of curiosity has the league ever run exhibition games in Mexico? I know there is a huge University league down that feeds NFL Europe with many of the national players. I wonder how well received a Mexican team would be?

The only former city that actually deserves another team promptly is Des Moines. In an effort to make the AFL seem "major league" the effectively kicked Iowa out of the league. If every pro league did that the NFL wouldn't have the Packers and the CFL wouldn't have my beloved Riders.

[DayWar05]

Cincinnati had a team last year, the Swarm. They missed the playoffs by one game. They were one and done. Although AF2, I'm not sure moving them up to AFL would help. My philosophy is go where the entertainment is slow. That is not your major metro cities......let alone NFL cities.

[Magnum357]

I kinda wish Des Moines would get an AF2 team, I doubt the AFL would ever return their. Its too small a market now and I don't think Iowa could sustain the costs. I heard they wanted too get back into Des Moines, but I have a feeling its not going too happen. If AF2 doesn't get back in their, maybe the NIFL could.

I'm still suprised Cincy folded. I heard they were just competeing with way too much (the Reds for example). On the other hand, AF2 is playing during Baseball season, AFL for the most part isn't. Hard too say if it would work.

[preeths]

Have to disagree with those who say the AFL shouldn't go back into markets where it has been before and those who assert the AFL should stay away from major markets. The reality is the league now depends heavily upon its TV ratings. In order to inprove its television numbers, it has to go into major markets, even some in which it has failed before. This isn't the same league of ten, or even three, years ago. It now has network exposure, big-time sponsors and a lot more buzz about it. It now has the ability to attract well-heeled ownership, something it didn't always have in the past. You don't get much richer than NFL owners, and they will want to place teams in NFL cities.

As a clarification on some points above, Nashville's arena is very hard to work with which is why the Kats left for Georgia. The only reason Milwaukee doesn't still have one of the best-supported teams in the league is because ownership thought the Bradley Center was going to be renovated, forcing the Mustangs out for a year or two. Both cities deserve another look.

Also, the Detroit Drive moved not because of lagging attendance but because their owner realized his boyhood dream of buying the Detroit Tigers.

[Houston Caldwell]

IN REPLY TO SHOOTMASTER 44, THE NASHVILLE KATS OF THE AFL(NOW THE GEORGIA FORCE) WERE NOT,IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE OF THE WORD,A FAILURE EITHER ON THE FIELD OR AT THE GATE.LED BY POPULAR LOCAL PLAYERS ANDY KELLY(QB-FORMER UT VOL) AND CORY FLEMING (WR-FORMER UT VOL AND STRATFORD HIGH OF NASHVILLE),THE KATS ENJOYED ABOVE-AVERAGE AFL FAN SUPPORT AND MADE THE ARENA BOWL THEIR LAST TWO SEASONS IN NASHVILLE.THE PROBLEM THE KATS HAD WAS A VERY UNFAVORABLE(TO THE KATS--- IT WAS A VERY FAVORABLE DEAL TO THE HOST NASHVILLE PREDATORS) LEASE AGREEMENT FOR THE USE OF THE GAYLORD ENTERTAINMENT CENTER FOR THEIR GAMES, ESPECIALLY WITH REGARD TO CONCESSION REVENUE.THIS MADE IT DIFFICULT FOR THE KATS TO TURN A PROFIT,WHICH LED TO THE SALE OF THE TEAM TO THE CURRENT OWNER IN EARLY 2001.WHEN THE NEW OWNER COULDNT GET A RENEGOTIATION OF THE GEC LEASE,HE MOVED THE TEAM TO GEORGIA.OF COURSE,THE BIGGEST OBSTACLE TO BRINGING AFL FOOTBALL BACK TO NASHVILLE LIES IN THE FACT THAT NOTHING HAS CHANGED ABOUT WHAT THE PREDATORS WILL DEMAND IN EXCHANGE FOR THE USE OF GEC FOR ARENA FOOTBALL. IT IS CLEARLY TIME TO EXAMINE OTHER APPROACHES.

[DayWar05]

My contention that team sshould stay away from major metro cities applies only to AF2 and the NIFL. The AFL should goto those cities. There are a couple reasons for that. One is they need the bigger markets to justify higher ticket prices to compensate for the high operation costs. Two, the bigger cities typically have the major "investors" like Elway, Bon Jovi, etc. Three, the big cities are the reason the AFL has a TV deal and the other leagues do not. Tv is also why the AFL is trying to run Grand Rapids into AF2, because GR is not a major tv market. I hope all of that makes sense.

[Micro67]

Isn't there an NIFL team going to Kansas City or maybe it was APFL. I don't remember. It does seem odd that a huge football city like KC doesn't have a team, but the last time I was there (over 10 years ago) there was only one, sub par arena even for a hockey team. Is there a new venue?

Also, Star Sports ran those 5 minute loops throughout the season here (Vietnam), but if anyone can get the Arena Bowl on DVD, please let me know.

[DayWar05]

Micro, this is off the subject, but what on earth are you doing in vietnam???? Give us a brief life story and "micro" lesson. :?:

[hawk185md]

Cincinnati had an AFL franchise from 1992-93.

Lamar Hunt, owner of the Kansas City Chiefs, doesn't think arena football will succeed in KC, but if he's so doggone skeptical about arena football succeeding in "The Show Me State," why don't he get off his high horse and considering applying for an AFL franchise in Kansas City?

Massachusetts saw arena football in 1994 with the Massachusetts Marauders, who had just relocated from Detroit after six successful seasons (1988-93) and six successive Arena Bowl appearances - which resulted in four Arena Bowl championships in those six appearances.

The former owner of the Detroit Drive, who currently owns the Detroit Tigers, obviously hates arena football and does not want to see arena football return to "The Motor City." I'd love to see arena football come back to the Joe Louis Arena and I loved those powder blue Detroit Drive jerseys.

Thought you wanted to know.

[Bill]

#1 - Lamar Hunt isn't on a "high horse"... He has other interests in the Kansas City sports scene... The MLS Kansas City Wizards are owned by Mr. Hunt... He also owns the Columbus Crew of the MLS... And if you notice.. The MLS season has been in full swing for a while..

I would love to see arena football... Even the AF2 brand in Kansas City..
But I don't think anyone can expect Lamar Hunt to field an indoor football team in KC.. Nor can you dog him for not wanting to...

As far as the arena in KC... A new arena is in the works..
What I don't understand... Is once the average Joe sits his butt down to watch the game... He really does'nt give a hoot in hades whether or not there are 25,000 seats around him or if there are a ton of luxury boxes..
I don't see anything wrong "with" the arena in KC..
Now the location... Thats the kind of issue that leaves you wondering what in the world they were thinking in the first place..

But then.. They want to make another mistake and put the new arena in downtown KC also..

Last issue is this.. In a poll in Kansas City the franchise they most wished for was an NBA franchise... With a AAA hockey team next... NHL below that... And with a tiny bit of the vote.. An AFL team.. Not the way I would have voted... But... The AFL to be successful would have to have a marketing plan to catch the KC sports fan like Tim Leiwieke did with the Kansas City Comets of the old MISL.. Good news is.. Tim is involved with the new arena plans also..

OK.. That wasn't the last issue..

Although history has been rewritten.. the term "Show Me" in its true meaning and origins... Is NOT a term to be proud of.. lol

Besides.. The new arena belongs in the suburbs in Johnson County, Kansas.. Where most of the Chiefs, Royals, Knights, and Comets fans are..

[Micro67]

Micro, this is off the subject, but what on earth are you doing in vietnam???? Give us a brief life story and "micro" lesson. :?:

Thanks for the interest. I am a minor league sports fan - particularly football. I lived in St. Louis when the Stampede was there and went to several games, then I moved to Pheonix.

I joined the Peace Corps in 2000 and was in the Federated States of Micronesia (Chuuk State) on the island of Weno.

Then I moved to Saigon to teach English and now I'm going to Singapore for 3 months before going back to Saigon. I'm told Singapore actually has football fans and I'll be there for the beginning of the NFL season so I'm happy about that.

As far as bringing an appreciation of Football to Vietnam - I'm losing on most fronts. Some Viet-Kieu (Vietnamese who have lived elsewhere or do live elsewhere) enjoy it and some bars show replays of MNF and one Sunday game - most of them are 49ers fans :cry: .

We have been getting the NFL Europe games and it is good to see some familiar faces: Chad Hutchinson (Dallas Cowboys), Chris Horn (Arizona Rattlers) playing.

One battle I have almost won is getting my gf to stop calling it Rugby, but here (Asia in general) if it isn't 'proper' football (read soccer) you are pretty much out of luck.

I currently have a web site for English teachers and a discussion board with a sports forum. You don't have to join to post so I'd love it if people would give us a visit and help explain 'American' football to the rest of the world. www.mekongesl.com

[Bill]

Micro.. I have noticed in the past your "place" on the map..

Just a couple questions...
Off topic from football....
If of course you can answer...

How much freedom do you have to use your puter..
You are in Vietnam of course..

And if they indeed are "looking over your shoulder" or actions related to.. Are their shorts going to be in a wad for your reference to "Saigon" instead of the city named for their former leader...

And finally..
I have heard this rumor many times before.. Even after almost 30 years since our Democrat controlled congress in 1975 turned their backs on our promise... Is the South still more prosperous than the North?

[Micro67]

How much freedom do you have to use your puter.. Sometimes you will get a message that a site is 'Filtered', but we get CNN and BBC on television and the internet.
You are in Vietnam of course.. Actually, I'm in Kuala Lumpur today. I'm moving to Singapore for a few months, then going back.

And if they indeed are "looking over your shoulder" or actions related to.. Are their shorts going to be in a wad for your reference to "Saigon" instead of the city named for their former leader... You still see official things reffered to as Saigon. The actual name of the city is Tan Pho Ho Chi Minh. Everyone uses Saigon and Ho Chi Minh City interchangeably.

And finally..
I have heard this rumor many times before.. Even after almost 30 years since our Democrat controlled congress in 1975 turned their backs on our promise... Is the South still more prosperous than the North? 'Prosperous' is the key word. The bulk of business in Vietnam goes on in Saigon, but the money doesn't stay there - must my opinion. All of the landlords I've had have been northerners and more money is spent on infrastructure in Hanoi than Saigon by a long shot. If I don't post again, you will know what happened :wink: