View Full Version : Silversox problems or the GBL

06-27-2007, 10:19 AM
I must start by saying my family and I loved going to the SS games last year!! We met great players like Marcus Jensen and Phil Grau who were awesome with my kids!! I felt the experience was lacking for a minor league venue but it was the first year in Reno..
We went to a game in Chico and were just amazed!! The between inning promotions were awesome!, we went to another game and saw the "crazy characters again awesome! It really showed how lacking the SS games are.
So this year I was expecting Reno to come out with a great promotion schedule and blow us way! NOT happening! Have you seen this weak schedule? Not to mention it was posted after OPENING day!!!
The very WORST thing about the SS administration is we have NO KIDS CLUB!! Every other professional baseball team in America has a KIDS CLUB!! Even the brand new South Coast League has a kids club for every team!! One of the very first things they did was creat that support through the kids club... NOTHING FOR THE RENO KIDS!! WHAT A SHAME!

Dear SilverSox and Goldenbaseball Staffers/Owners,

I must say after living in S. California and Florida the baseball experience in Reno needs immediate attention!!! The promotions/entertainment experience leaves a lot to be desired!! As I look around

the GBL websites I see such promotions as , SD Chicken, Crazy Characters, Kids Day, Team Posters, Team Trading Cards, etc.. Just to name a few!!! The Silver Sox nothing but Two for Tuesday and a T-shirt Night!!!! Nothing to bring the crowds in!!The small town of Chico blows are promotions out of the water!!??? Why???

Also as I looked at NUMEROUS websites around the GBL and other Minor League web sites -EVERYONE- has a Kids Club except the Reno SilverSox!!!!!!!

What is the problem here????

The promotion calender just hit the web site this week!

No kids Club!

Were not even sure if Nugget will be at the games!!

I must say the baseball is fantastic but I won't spend my 100.00 at a Silversox game until the entertainment improves for my family of 6...

Ken Jones



Thanks for the email. I have two small children and I love Kids clubs. The good news is that one is in the works in Reno and your four children will be the charter members.

We have a completely refurbished Nugget this season that will be a fan favorite for kids of all ages.

We are also looking at starting a booster club. Would you be interested in getting involved in a Leadership position? We need fresh ideas and folks who are in tuned with the pulse of the community.

Please let me know.

Play ball,

Dave Kaval


We still ust have "two for tuesday", "t-shirt day" , "fireworks" and...? for promotions.. and best of all the only professional team in baseball with no kids club!
I joined the Rivercats kids club for my 4 kids, we'll go on the weekends!!

It doesn't make sense!!
Ken Jones

Silver Sox Fan
06-27-2007, 11:56 AM

As a fellow Silver Sox fan I share your frustrations. It really seems like things are not very organized with the team in all those areas you mentioned. There are certain things every minor league team should have whether that be promotions, kids clubs, booster clubs, etc. And you will see on my blog and on my posts here that I share many of your concerns and have for quite a while. Hopefully that is a message to the league officials who read this site.

You are also right that Reno Silver Sox officials are non-responsive to e-mail. The league responds very well (especially Kevin Outcalt) but the team doesn't. Other people have told me that they have had similar experiences with the non-responsiveness. I've probably sent about a half dozen e-mails to the team and the only response I got came when my e-mail was forwarded by Commissioner Outcalt. For me, I can chalk it up to them being understaffed so it doesn't bother me that much. What really bothers me is that at the games they ask for your feedback thorugh the website and then don't respond. I would be happy with a simple autoreply saying they got it and though they can't respond to every e-mail they do read every e-mail (even if it isn't true). Other fans may not be as forgiving. And you see from Mr. Kaval's e-mail the continuing theme that they want fan feedback and a "pulse of the community". I would suggest the local team leadership could do a better job in both of those areas.

At the end of the day, I will support the Silver Sox because of my love of baseball. But, to be honest, it does seem like they are just going through the motions in a lot of areas and not really going above and beyond to create the best baseball experience possible.

I assume the league shares ideas since it owns 67% of the teams. I also thought I read that Chico's GM would sort of be the head GM to help the other GMs be successful. Comparing Reno and Chico (just look at the difference in the info provided on each website) seems to indicate that best practices are not being shared. I'd like to see that change.

I say it a lot but I'll say it again. Reno has seen unaffiliated teams come and go in baseball and hockey. The current one (Sox) needs to do everything they can to get the bad taste out of peoples' mouths in areas such as gameday experience, level of play, and commitment to being a part of the community for a long time to come. Add to that a Triple-A franchise coming in 2009 (potentially) and the you see the Sox have a small window to make themselves a fixture and to have their fans have an attachment to the team.
We were missing baseball in our community for a long time until the GBL brough it back. Now is the time when they need to solidy their standing here. For the sake of those of us who love baseball I hope they don't miss the opportunity.

06-27-2007, 12:15 PM
you guys are not alone. There is no kids club in LB either. (its listed on the website but there is not one). They did put in a play area so I guess that counts. The promotions are a bit better than last year though.

I do miss a player or 2 being outside to sign autographs. I wonder if that is just a lack of photos for them to sign.....hmmmm thoughts.

06-27-2007, 04:27 PM
Greetings from San Diego!!
I thought the GBL might have learned from last year in San Diego. From the sounds of it The GBL is trying once again to thin the herd. Reno sounds just like San Diego, they have a fun programs set up for the first year, and then they do hardly anything the second year, so they have an excuse to leave.
Maybe Long Beach need Jose Canseco again this year, we all found out how well that worked.
Good Luck everyone, hopefully you won't end up like we have this year.

06-27-2007, 04:45 PM
The thing about Kids Clubs is that although the cost of materials are nominal the man hours can be pretty expensive.

San Diego didn't have one either and I think it was a shame.

For a $10 or $15 per kid you can give them a $2 shirt or $3 hat, or $.50 pin and one free ticket to every game.

The kid can't get to the park alone so that's at least one adult paying for admission, parking, popcorn, candy, hotdog, and hopefully (the big money maker) beer.

The hard (read: expensive) part is creating and printing the sign up sheets, maintaining the data and doing follow up.

Over all, as a fan, I say that Kids Clubs are darn near as necessary as having a catcher behind the dish.

Silver Sox Fan
06-27-2007, 10:17 PM
Actually, I think it can be the most non-labor intensive activity if they want.

Simply create a "fire and forget" single transaction kids club package. Here is one example:

For $15 the kids get a special kids club shirt; a 5x7 of Nugget (that he can autograph at the game); 5 GA ticket vouchers; 1 voucher for a special kids day activity where Nugget hosts a special "VIP" get together of kids club members before a game where they get a mini party with a free hot dog and a drink; a lanyard that can hold tickets; a Sox bumper sticker; and a special membership card that gives them 10% off the cost of merchandise.

Then you get e-mails on the application form to send out special messages to the kids.

Total time: whatever it takes to assemble the kits, 30 minutes of staff time to support the kid party one time, and whatever time it takes to write the messages.

I think a lot of that is overlap time as well since the staff is probably doing similar work anyway. You don't have to keep special lists, you don't do follow up, and you don't have any really recurring tasks from this effort. And then their dollar spending parents have to bring them to at least 5 games for them to use their vouchers.

Again, the teams must be really short staffed. Our Asst GM has an excellent resume. With his experience I can't believe he thought it would be a good idea to not have radio, booster club, kids club, etc during year one and during year two to let things just trickle out over the season that should have been established during the off-season (e.g. promo calendar out two weeks into the season, internet broadcasts out four weeks into the season, a kids club and booster club--according to Dave Kaval--at some even later point in the season, etc.)

I assume they either don't have the people or the money because they have the expertise between Curt, the Chico GM who is supposed to be helping everyone, and, at the league level, two GBL years of good and bad baseball decisions to learn from.

Many of these things can be done for little or no money or can be creatively sponsored. Again, I am not part of the team so maybe they have tried and all they could get was the minimal sponsorship they got for the promotions that S. Sox complained about earlier. In fact, I took a look at Chico's promotions and they are indeed much better than ours:

COMING SOON...Four Fireworks Nights, Three Cap Nights, Three Dollar $$$ Dog Nights,Three Baseball Giveaways, Team Photos, posters, magnet schedules, pennants...you name it, we're probably giving it away!

I sent an e-mail to Kevin that he forwarded to Curt putting my money where my mouth is. I'll be happy to volunteer my time free of charge a couple of nights a week if it helps this team succeed. And I am sure there are plenty of others as well. My worst fear is the Sox stay virtually unknown and Triple A comes in and forces them out. I really like the Silver Sox, the geographic location of the GBL teams, the level of play (minus all the errors, of course) and I want them to be part of our community for a long time to come.

06-27-2007, 11:29 PM
Thanks for the reply, I don't feel alone with my frustrations on the Reno situation!!
S.Sox :mad: : mad:

Silver Sox Fan
06-27-2007, 11:45 PM
Don't let it get you down. At the end of the day, no matter what we do the Sox management will do what they want to since it is their full time job not ours. And your comments are read by guys like Kevin Outcalt (commissioner) and another GM, Ed Hart (Flyers), so your opinions are being heard. Just don't quit going to the ballpark and cheating yourself out of a great game because of the off the field details that we can't change. At least we have pro ball in Reno so I always remind myself of that and I am going to enjoy it well it lasts.

06-28-2007, 12:00 AM
Every team should definately have a kids club. But there is just so much that goes into a successful team it's hard to keep up with sometimes.

06-28-2007, 12:41 AM
I just saw that the famous San Diego Chicken will now be appearing in Reno on July 11th according to the Silver Sox website.....they must be listening to you S.Sox.....he's the greatest entertainment act there is....he's never been to Chico but will be coming this year for the first time the day after Reno.

I'm guessing that the AAA thing has been a distracting time sink for the Silver Sox front office as well....isn't the Silver Sox GM involved somehow with the AAA project or trying to get the stadium money if it doesn't happen?

Like Silver Sox Fan said, it's nothing to get mad over.....just keep giving hem suggestions to improve...we're thrilled to have baseball back in Chico after three long empty years.....we do have a pretty good head office that knows how to market and get the promotions in place early...seems like a lot more marketing this year and our most giveaways and acts ever

Outlaws won tonight on a walk-off three run double with two outs to beat Yuma 3-2...go Outlaws!

06-28-2007, 03:38 AM
Greetings from San Diego!!
I thought the GBL might have learned from last year in San Diego. From the sounds of it The GBL is trying once again to thin the herd. Reno sounds just like San Diego, they have a fun programs set up for the first year, and then they do hardly anything the second year, so they have an excuse to leave.
Maybe Long Beach need Jose Canseco again this year, we all found out how well that worked.
Good Luck everyone, hopefully you won't end up like we have this year.

The other problem that noone mentions about san diego is that Rickey left, your fan base left. Lets be honest, the only reason that SD had a large fan base in the first season was because they were coddled by the league because of Rickey. You take him out of the picture in season 2, more than half your fans leave and the league no longer cares.

The same thing happened in LB. They made a big deal about Constrikeout, he took a roster spot, forced us out of the playoffs and really hurt the team more than helped it. But the league could care less because they sold a few extra tickets and got more green in their pockets.

I am absolutely convinced that the league cares less and less each year about the game.

Now we hear that the new President of LB is trying to push out his best staffer because he doesnt want to be shown up? Come on! Steve Bash has already ruined 1 team, why is the league letting him ruin this one?

If Steve bash stays in charge of things I predict, no I guarantee, the disappearance of LB after this season.

Silver Sox Fan
06-28-2007, 10:00 AM
I'm guessing that the AAA thing has been a distracting time sink for the Silver Sox front office as well....isn't the Silver Sox GM involved somehow with the AAA project or trying to get the stadium money if it doesn't happen?

We have a rental car tax that goes into a pot for the building of a baseball stadium. The previous language was that it was for a Triple A stadium. A state senate bill changed the langauge to just "professional" baseball stadium making the Sox eligible for the $3M dollars collected so far and the little over $1M that rolls in each year. Dwight Dortch, a Reno City Councilman and our GM, and others lobbied hard to get that change as it seemed for all intents and purposes that Triple-A was finally dead after 6 years of it being on and off again.

Then Triple-A folks (in this case SK baseball) stepped up and bought the Tucson Sidewinders with the intent of moving them to Reno shortly after this. They now have until 1 OCT to secure the team (MiLB and MLB still need to approve), secure an agreement with Reno, and buy the land.

Yesterday, SK baseball officially entered into talks with Reno. Sharon Zadra was the only council member quoted and was very supportive of bringing in Triple-A. Dwight abstained from voting to enter talks due to his conflict of interest with the Sox.

I know Amit Patel said Triple A wouldn't happen in Reno...it wouldn't draw enough, the investment in the stadium wouldn't be recouped, etc. Time will tell but with the kind of money SK Baseball brings to the table, I think it will. OCT.1 will be the real "yea" or "nay" point. One thing is for sure...SK baseball coming in pushed the Sox off the table as the sole entity to get the money. If Triple-A does fall through, Washoe County is going to release the rental car tax to general entertainment organizations so the Sox might get a piece but they will be competing with the vistors association (Reno Rodeo, hot august nights, etc) etc who want to improve their facilities. The Sox surely won't get all $3M at this point.

I am not sure how concerned the Sox are with Triple-A but they should be. It seems like they are going along the same as last year (advertising, marketing, etc) and the fan base really hasn't changed early on based upon attendance comparisons. We got a small spike over 2,000 for fireworks on the first Saturday of the year. This weekend, with no promotions listed, will be a good indication of where they stand. Weekday games have drawn about a 1000 this year. It will be interesting to see if they can get to the high teens for a weekend series. Last year they drew an average of about 1500 people and have been at or below that for most openings this year.

And, as always, the attendance is ticket sold not people through the gate. On most of the nights I have gone, there are maybe a few hundred people there. Unless that changes dramatically and people start getting excited about Sox games and getting their freinds excited too, I can't see the Silver Sox remaining viable (again league officials said they need to be at 1600-1800 people just to break even) if Triple A comes and takes even a quarter of the Sox fan base. It all goes back to that stuff S.Sox said in his first post and all of you have said after that in this thread.

06-28-2007, 11:37 AM
In the large markets, markets that already have major league franchises, if they DON'T get big names, those tickets would never have been sold. I'd complain about placing those teams in the first place, if anything. I'm amazed that Long Beach lasted this long.

If Reno gets AAA, with all due respect, it's merely a matter of where the Sox move. Any other thought is wishful thinking IMO.

Pietsch Fan
06-28-2007, 02:01 PM
I really don't think San Diego's crowds thinned because Rickey wasn't there. Rickey was a draw, but I think only to the fans that go to one or two games. Putting aside the SDSU issues, San Diego was failing because of the rotating door of GMs and the bad sale to the bad guys.

As for player autographs and such, down here the booster club had to step up and get those things done or they never would have been done. We set up the tables, had the clubby pull the guys, did the side-show hawking, etc. Booster clubs can be very helpful towards making a successful club, however they aren't and shouldn't be started by the front offices. They have to be fan run to work right.


06-28-2007, 04:33 PM
Hey peeeeaaaaanut,
I have no idea what is happening in Long Beach this year. Staff turnover is about to become the leagues worst nightmare. Steve was hired for his "amazing marketing abilities". WHAT??? He single handily ruined a hockey franchise in the same town, blamed the city leaders for not helping and moved to the GBL.
Now, the marketing genius isnt drawing anyone to the ballpark either. The crowd Monday night was pathetic. The staff is a bunch of retreads from the hockey team. {Removed by admin} They dont seem to do much, other than yap at each other on the concourse. I figure money could be spent in better ways, but that is the new Armada way--make yourself look good, and worry about the results later. Well, unforunately, that will come back to bit the citizens of Long Beach once again. I hope someone from the GBl notices that there is nothing good going on in Long Beach, and steps in quick to fix it. The fans deserve better than they are getting! The quality of play is fairly good, I would hope that the marketing genius decides to show up more often and actually figure out a way to put fans in the seats.
I would hate to think the league just said "well, he ran a hockey team, so he can run ours". If that is the case peeaaaanut, I can not see the Armada coming back for year 4; what a legacy Mr. Bash is leaving in Long Beach!!

Silver Sox Fan
06-28-2007, 05:00 PM
Wow, these Long Beach posts sound a lot like the San Diego posts you can still find on this board a few pages back...not a good sign.

Can you guys post some info on the Long beach situation with a little more detail. I got that Bash ran the Ice Dogs but what is the deal with staff turnover or poor marketing? Any details would be appreciated so slow guys like myself can better connect the dots. :)

I'd like to see how close to the San Diego situation (based upon previous posts) this really is.

06-28-2007, 11:41 PM
Personally I hope the GBL continues to expand and do well! I know it can because of my experience at a Outlaw game last year! What a great experience from the "Outlaw merchandise trailer" to the great specials at the snack bar.. and one cannot forget the "train"that rolls by the right field fence and all the Outlaw fans cheer/waive at the Conductor.. Anyway my point is there are great GBL experiences out there. I still love the baseball don't get me wrong..just speaking about the experience-less ways in Reno versus what we oberserved in Chico..
Go Sox


06-29-2007, 12:41 AM
Chico is unique, they had a built-in fan base and they have been well taken care of by the league. Its no coincidence that they have the "best" GM in the league. I mean, how is it that the "best" team from year 1, somehow happens to get the number one player in the league in the Arizona dispersal draft (desi wilson)....would have thought those players would have gone to the worst teams to build equity.....obviously, they have an agenda....its just up to us to watch to make sure this is not WWE...lol