2007-08 ABA Season in Jeopardy?

[The Magician]

I get the feeling from some people who have been or who are currently associated with the ABA, that there is an uneasy feeling about whether or not the league will actually play in 2007-2008?

There seems to be much much more going on behind the scenes ... and the ABA is on it's heels, playing the victim.

The ABA CEO, now, more than ever before, is all about 'misdirection' ...

And unfortunately, it's always been that way.

Nothing is what it seems or is expected to be with the ABA!

It's sad really ... If things would have been legit and done right from the beginning ... the ABA could be, today, a solid national minor sports league.

The only way things are going to change for the ABA ...

Is to get a NEW CEO ...

Somebody who is willing to do the work for 'the league' ... and not just for personal $ gain and mention of how many civic plaques he has on his basement wall!

[aba_insider]

Said it before, say it again -

this message board seems to be congregated with people who simply bash the ABA.

The season is not in jeopardy. Even if Joe lost the ABA license, went to jail, and the SEC closed his offices. The teams would band together by division and play their seaosn by another name. Maybe that is what is needed. It is certainly what the guys on this board want. But it is too far-fetched to suggest that everyone who has drunk the kool-aid is committed to failing.

Oh, Joe closed the ABA. What do I do? Get sued by everyone who has sponsored the team?

No way, I know for a fact the Northeast (bashed onanother thread) and the midwest have discussed scheduling and making sure their season is completed, and those meetings were with owners who have completed seasons.

So I think the concern you hear is legit. but no more than any other year, and for no other reason.

[Sam Hill]

Said it before, say it again -

this message board seems to be congregated with people who simply bash the ABA.

We wouldn't if the league didn't give us so much fodder, and if the CEO wasn't a liar and a cheat.

[Fells]

Here is the thing. The Northeast itself is very strong, but I have questions about the rest of the league. Crazy Joe has been making more and more outlandish statements about the state of the ABA, and seemingly making up "responses" on "Ask the CEO" portion of the "website". (See I believe 6/13 where he answered "questions" about what people have been saying about the ABA and the horse---t answers by "fans".)

You are right, the league will not go away, but it could suffer even more until Crazy Joe has been removed as the CEO of the ABA.

[psbf]

miss something? Rochester left and Buffalo is in question(last I read). Please explain to me how the Northeast is strong?

[tbayz1]

yes Buffalo is in question, but it does look like were leaning towards another season from a quick chat today i had with my connections, we only have 1 owner and its not the easy to decide if you want to keep losing money for the thrid year in a row, he has the money to complete a season, but the question is, does he want to lose it for not much huge progress being made

if we play, we wont be playin in a 4000 seat arena like this past season, the best we would prolly do is a smaller college, possibly Hilbert College that seats around 1000 that is not in the city of Buffalo, if we play outside of the city in the Southtowns where ALOT of our western-ny population lives, the Southtowns could call the Silverbacks their own, and all the local town newspapers could be the media source, if we play in the southtowns i dont think it will be hard to have a decent fan base of at least 500 a night, the Bills(nfl) also play in the Southtowns as well

We played one game at Hilbert in 2006, it was a playoff game, we drew 900ish, and during the 05-06 season we played at a small private school that sat 300-400 and most games were packed, those were some of the most exciting games ive been to at a smaller venue and everyone is on top of each other and the court and everyones into the game and it gets loud, fun times! But that game with 900 at Hilbert was electrifying, it was fun for everyone!

One bad thing though is that some of the guys that have been playing with us for 2 years, local guys too, are looking at other teams and one i believe already signed with one, i guess thats what happens when questioning of the future of the team goes on

[a1sports]

Buffalo owner had one major sponosr last year,...put the money in his business account, not the basketball operation. Barley finished the season.

Needed to move the last few games way south of Buffalo in a high school gym.

Buffalo is a no go this year.

Cornell youngster owner has no idea of what he is involved with. Marsha of Newark has NO staff NO nothing and will ask Joe for Money, Halifax is too far.
Strong island runs on a shoe string budget, the owner gets money to be CFO for the ABA,,,,wait till he gets a subponea. Vermont plays in a substandard arena, Quebec has ownership troubles ( partners fighting).

SO if this is youre strongest division.......sorry for all you...have another sip of Joe Kool aid

[tbayz1]

Buffalo owner had one major sponosr last year,...put the money in his business account, not the basketball operation. Barley finished the season.

Needed to move the last few games way south of Buffalo in a high school gym.

Buffalo is a no go this year.

Cornell youngster owner has no idea of what he is involved with. Marsha of Newark has NO staff NO nothing and will ask Joe for Money, Halifax is too far.
Strong island runs on a shoe string budget, the owner gets money to be CFO for the ABA,,,,wait till he gets a subponea. Vermont plays in a substandard arena, Quebec has ownership troubles ( partners fighting).

SO if this is youre strongest division.......sorry for all you...have another sip of Joe Kool aid

We played 2 games outside of Buffalo last year and the first one we had 600 in attendence, thats better than what we did all year in the city, except for maybe 2 games, and then the second game was at the little private school i mentioned above and there was close to 400 there, all of which new fans who were into the games, had fun, and have never seen the Silverbacks play before and were pleased, and the venue changes were made about 4-5 days before the scheduled games

Trust me, this team will do just fine if not better playing outside the city of Buffalo! More people live outside the city, and obviously the city itself doesnt really care if we only averaged around 500 a game when we played there

And we did alot of traveling at the end and of the season from Jan-Mar(including playoffs) we had 4 home games and 10 road games, thanks to the wonderful ABA scheduling ;) So i would think money would be a little tight

Now im not saying 100% they will be back, but its a good chance they will
But they also still could call it quits, o well, its been a good 2 years, im sure Joe would put a new team in Buffalo asap, and they would prolly do worse than the Silverbacks(nee Rapids)

[bomp]

I get the feeling from some people who have been or who are currently associated with the ABA, that there is an uneasy feeling about whether or not the league will actually play in 2007-2008?

There seems to be much much more going on behind the scenes ... and the ABA is on it's heels, playing the victim.

The ABA CEO, now, more than ever before, is all about 'misdirection' ...

And unfortunately, it's always been that way.

Nothing is what it seems or is expected to be with the ABA!

It's sad really ... If things would have been legit and done right from the beginning ... the ABA could be, today, a solid national minor sports league.

The only way things are going to change for the ABA ...

Is to get a NEW CEO ...

Somebody who is willing to do the work for 'the league' ... and not just for personal $ gain and mention of how many plaques he has on his basement wall!

The ABA should be HISTORY! Under-finanaced teams in the crooked league won't work. The MISL learned this the hard way and it almost destroyed them. Luckily, they are starting over and will have 9 teams next season.

1. Proper financing.
2. A real business plan.
3. Hire professionals that know how to run a team.
4. TV and national sponsors

That's the ticket.

The CBA and the PBL should merge and create a legit league with a REAL business plan. I hope Doyle & Co. get it together.

[Chuck the Writer]

And another note... if ABA team owners sense that their season might be in jeopardy because of weak franchises and/or crazy rulings by Crazy Joe (i.e., demanding profit-sharing fees, order teams to travel at the last minute to cities not on their original schedule and front the travel costs themselves), I got a feeling that teams that have solid financing might sniff around to leagues who have "C" or "D" or "P" in their acronyms.

That's what happened with Pittsburgh and Indiana and San Jose/Minot after the 06 season - they got sick of Crazy Joe's malarkey and went to a more stable league, the CBA. Same thing with the Arkansas RimRockers the year before - they moved to the D-League and got away from Crazy Joe's carny league. And that's what's going on with teams like Reading and Wilmington and Minnesota - essentially saying to Crazy Joe, go take a long walk off a short pier, we're joining the PBL and making sure our season gets completed.

And Crazy Joe will whine and moan and gnash his dentures over teams leaving the ABA, crying "whatever happened to loyalty and ethics," and then stuffing new franchises into the vacated markets (see Anderson Champions).

The fact of the matter is, Crazy Joe's trying to operate a rotisserie fantasy basketball league - and using real players and real owners and real cities in it. And no matter how many times he gets his little buddy "aba insider" or "aba06er" or "tom chichester" to spit vitriol on OSC, it just ain't gonna work. Plain and simple.

[one way]

People are touting how great and strong they are by averaging 500 fans. What a joke. 500 fans??? Come on. If this is what you are basing next year on, you are in trouble. This is not a fan base

[aba_insider]

Have ANY of you EVER been to a minor league basketball game?

YES, there are teams with money and bound for the playoffs...

YES, teams with post-season success have a larger attendance...

YES, there are the exceptions....

But I have never seen a big crowd at a minor league basketball game. Most minor league ANYTHING is not well attended.

PLEASE make arguments that are intelligent - teams not finishing the season because there underfinanced, Crazy Joe's kool-aid, Crazy Joe's lack of vetting incoming ownership groups - whatever your argument is about how BAD the ABA is.

But at least that has some bearing in facts. Attendance is NOT a high number in minor league sports. To argue that is stupidity.

And again, teams leaving for the PBL weakens a strong part of the league, it does not logically follow that division is not strong. It is simply not as strong.

The NBDL just had another team fold in Texas. Should we blast David Stern?

[preeths]

Please educate us, o wise one. What is the average attendance for a well-run minor league basketball team? What's the average attendance for minor league sports? You're a friend of an ABA owner, and now you're an expert on minor league sports? Please. Fact is the ABA sets the floor for minor league sports attendance. It isn't typical to draw crowds in the dozens or low hundreds. In most minor leagues, that's a sure sign of failure.

[Chuck the Writer]

Have ANY of you EVER been to a minor league basketball game?

I would imagine most of the people on this board have been to a minor league basketball game or two. I hope you're not using the worn-out argument that "if you've never done X, then you can't comment on X." Big deal. I never flew on the Starship Enterprise, but I can sure comment on Star Trek episodes.

YES, there are teams with money and bound for the playoffs...

YES, teams with post-season success have a larger attendance...

YES, there are the exceptions....

But I have never seen a big crowd at a minor league basketball game. Most minor league ANYTHING is not well attended.

Let me help you out, bunky...

http://www.albanypats.com/0607photos/7752-P.jpg

I could show you more, but I don't feel like wasting bandwidth on a crumb like you.

PLEASE make arguments that are intelligent - teams not finishing the season because there underfinanced, Crazy Joe's kool-aid, Crazy Joe's lack of vetting incoming ownership groups - whatever your argument is about how BAD the ABA is.

Listen, crumb, plenty of people on this board have made plenty of arguments about why and how the ABA has failed. You either don't want to listen to the proof, or you've got your fingers in your ears going LA LA LA LA LA like a 5-year-old.

But at least that has some bearing in facts. Attendance is NOT a high number in minor league sports. To argue that is stupidity.

Define "high number." Because I seem to recall either you or someone who sounds just like you operating under the name ABA06er crying to the high heavens about how great the Rochester Razorsharks are because they can draw 4,000 people a night. Sioux Falls and Dakota in the D-League can draw 4,000 a night. Yakama and Albany can draw close to that also. And many other teams in the D-League and CBA also are drawing respectable numbers. This is of course in opposition to most ABA franchises, where 300 non-related fans in the bleachers is cause for celebration.

And again, teams leaving for the PBL weakens a strong part of the league, it does not logically follow that division is not strong. It is simply not as strong.

So far only four teams out of - what, 50 or 60 - have left. You're telling me that the league can survive with Newark, Mexicali, Hawaii, Big Valley, and the PROLYMs?

The NBDL just had another team fold in Texas. Should we blast David Stern?

I don't know... the Texas Tycoons couldn't make things work in Fort Worth in 2004, so they folded - er - relocated to another city after sporting what, a 1-3 record? The D-League Fort Worth franchise stuck it out for two years, they're moving to possibly Reno - so how come if an ABA team moves it's not folding, but if a D-League team moves then it is? Selective rules? Oh wait, I forgot - the current ABA is ALL about selective rules. Or would you like me to bring up how the ABA screwed the Gallup Talons and Florida Pit Bulls out of the playoffs due to Crazy Joe's temper tantrums; or how the Mississippi Miracles got screwed out of travel costs due to Crazy Joe's ultimatums; or would you like me to continue?

Nah... didn't think you would.

[The Magician]

The NBDL just had another team fold in Texas. Should we blast David Stern?


The NBA can absorb the loss or transition of an NBDL franchise ...

Because Mr. Stern oversees a business!


The person in charge of the ABA is not running a business, nor cares to ...

That's why the league membership, individually, and as a whole, is guaranteed nothing in return for their affiliation with the ABA!


The NBA is a certified professional league which conducts global business and is recognized as the #1 basketball league in the world.

The ABA is a minor league organization who has not been granted professional status nor has any considerable stability or market control in North America.

The ABA is not an international brand.

The ABA could be something special ... but will never happen under the current leadership of it's CEO.

[one way]

I do not know if you need to Chuck, but why not list the averages of the CBA teams and the D League teams for this idiot. I know you have them handy. Put those to the dismal attendance records of some of these ABA teams and it is a joke. Please check these teams, they are not even selling anything yet. Not a sign, program ad or a season ticket. 30-40 people including the High School janitor who happens to be sweeping under the bleachers in the venue where these teams play does not consitute a fan base. Announced crowd, 500.

[bomp]

Have ANY of you EVER been to a minor league basketball game?

YES, there are teams with money and bound for the playoffs...

YES, teams with post-season success have a larger attendance...

YES, there are the exceptions....

But I have never seen a big crowd at a minor league basketball game. Most minor league ANYTHING is not well attended.

PLEASE make arguments that are intelligent - teams not finishing the season because there underfinanced, Crazy Joe's kool-aid, Crazy Joe's lack of vetting incoming ownership groups - whatever your argument is about how BAD the ABA is.

But at least that has some bearing in facts. Attendance is NOT a high number in minor league sports. To argue that is stupidity.

And again, teams leaving for the PBL weakens a strong part of the league, it does not logically follow that division is not strong. It is simply not as strong.

The NBDL just had another team fold in Texas. Should we blast David Stern?

Chuck:

Is the the Armory in that photo? I remember the bleachers!

Insider:

How many ABA teams turned a profit last season? Should we blast Joe Newman?

What does he do with the entrance fee?? Off shore bank account in Connie's name?? Hmmmm... Should we check the SEC filings to see?

Attendance was low at Rochester?? How many comps at Maryland? How about Arkansas when they were in the ABA?

Barre, Vermont has a population of what yet the Heaves packed the house?

Many minor league sports do very well at the gate. Just check the many of the teams on oursportscentral.com. Even minor league baseball does well some places.

You're very good at debating but you ignore the main complaint, The ABA leadership lies and doesn't live up to its agreements. They are crooks.

Was that Halifax reporter like the rest of the people here? What ax did he have to grind?? He made things up too?

I think it's time for you to change the subject OR your user ID again.

Try looking up the song that describes your league's future by Stonewall Jackson. It describe Joe's future to a tee! And it's not a town in Upstate NY!! ;)

[Fells]

For some clarification, the reason I said the Northeast is the strongest division is the fact that statistically, the NE played the highest percentage of its scheduled games. When there were games that were at risk of not being played at all, the Northeast teams seemed to rally and ensure the fans didn't see some YMCA team play against them. To me, that kind of organization is what makes that division strong.

[TEN]

As big of a TRAINWRECK that the USBL has been (in what I believe will be its final season)...

Kansas drew 1600 for their final home game and have averaged over 1000 a night....Gary had over 2000 for a intersquad scrimmage when a team from the East decided not to come out...Dodge is getting 1000 a night plus and Oklahoma's attendance has been around 7 to 800 and drew 1000 plus the last two Thursday nights...

As "hunky-dory" as the ABA says they are....crowds of 3 to 500 in the soon to be dead USBL are considered sub-par....but cause for celebration in the ABA.

[aba_insider]

preeths again...

I am not claiming to be a wise on - I am countering the so-called experts who started the post. It is a good strategy, defend by going on the attack and obfuscation.

Here is the crumb's answer - I don't know the numbers, but I am sure most of us can find them on the internet and some posters have already replied. I have attended Twins minor league games at Tinker Field in orlando back in the 70's; been to Lookouts games in Chattanooga, and been to about a half-dozen CBA games in my lifetime, 2 USBL games, and a dozen or so ABA games.

The venues looked the same to me - mostly empty.

To argue otherwise would simply be lying.

I consider an ABA game with 500-1000 good attendance for the ABA.

Anything under 500 and I would say you are about to fold.

But I have not seen ANYTHIING EVER better at NBDL games on the NBA channel, and neither has my PERSONAL experience seen anything better elsewhere.

Again, just you guys with an anti-ABA agenda. What is amazing how nothing really is new on this board - I check it 3-4 times a week, spend about a half an hour of my time here a week, and find the same old posters saying the same old things.

[Chuck the Writer]

It is a good strategy, defend by going on the attack and obfuscation.

Yeah, considering you've been doing that in 99% of your posts.

Here is the crumb's answer - I don't know the numbers, but I am sure most of us can find them on the internet and some posters have already replied.

So essentially you don't have any numbers to back up your claims. Why is that? Could it be that the ABA is notoriously lax in promoting any attendance figures - or, for that matter, any statistics of any kind? Both the CBA and the D-League have stats available for every game and every player within moments of the game's completion. Not having this information from the ABA proves that the ABA is too Mickey Mouse to even take that one step towards credibility.

I have attended Twins minor league games at Tinker Field in orlando back in the 70's; been to Lookouts games in Chattanooga, and been to about a half-dozen CBA games in my lifetime, 2 USBL games, and a dozen or so ABA games. The venues looked the same to me - mostly empty.

To argue otherwise would simply be lying.

Okay, considering that you're equating 30-year-old baseball games with modern day sports is like trying to compare apples and spaghetti under the rubric of "food." Talk for today. I already gave you five examples of basketball franchises that are drawing and packing the building. Sioux Falls. Yakama. Albany. Rochester. Dakota. I can give you more. But I don't feel like doing your work for you, crumb.

I consider an ABA game with 500-1000 good attendance for the ABA.

Most of us would consider that "impossible." But then again, we can't confirm any ABA statistics because nobody bothers to keep such records. So all we have is your word - which lately hasn't been worth two squirts of Brylcreem.

But I have not seen ANYTHIING EVER better at NBDL games on the NBA channel, and neither has my PERSONAL experience seen anything better elsewhere.

Well, considering once again all you've been in your tenure here is just a know-nothing sock puppet with Crazy Joe's hand up your sleeve...

Again, just you guys with an anti-ABA agenda. What is amazing how nothing really is new on this board - I check it 3-4 times a week, spend about a half an hour of my time here a week, and find the same old posters saying the same old things.

Fine. Here's your assignment for today, crumb. You get a pen and paper and write down TEN things that make the ABA the best minor league basketball circuit out there - TEN IRREFUTABLE ARGUMENTS. You have until the end of June to come up with them. Because I can ask any person on this message board, and they can't come up with anything the ABA's doing right now that the CBA and the D-League (and the PBL) aren't going to do better.

And why you and your partnership with the Orlando Aces opted to put a franchise in Orlando, right next to the Magic, is like opening up an amusement park with a rickety roller coaster and disease-riddled petting zoo right next to Disney World.

[zeke41]

Well, well, well...this is getting interesting. Just for curiousity, how is ABA Insider partnered up with the Orlando Aces? I'm not questioning you Chuck...anything is possible. However, that would surprise me a bit being that I am the current acting GM for the Orlando Aces. Nevertheless, my owner doesn't always tell me everything (yet he wants me to do a good job running the team without knowing anything). Heck, he's probably getting paid by the ABA and having me work for free. It wouldn't be the first time.

I'm curious to know where you derived that from! Aba Insider...care to illuminate?

[tbayz1]

I believe he made a reference why he would rather take his family to an ABA game instead of paying $50 a ticket for an Orlando Magic game, so i think we all infered that he was from Orlando and affiliated with the Aces

And i think he said hes a co-owner or friend of an owner in the ABA, i dont remember lol

[Chuck the Writer]

Well, well, well...this is getting interesting. Just for curiousity, how is ABA Insider partnered up with the Orlando Aces? I'm not questioning you Chuck...anything is possible. However, that would surprise me a bit being that I am the current acting GM for the Orlando Aces. Nevertheless, my owner doesn't always tell me everything (yet he wants me to do a good job running the team without knowing anything). Heck, he's probably getting paid by the ABA and having me work for free. It wouldn't be the first time.

I'm curious to know where you derived that from! Aba Insider...care to illuminate?

He's made several references to Orlando in his posts, including most recently referencing going to Tinker Field for minor league baseball games, and not wanting to spend $50 for tickets at Orlando Magic games. So he's either part of the Aces or one of their investors. He'll deny it, but then again I'm not expecting him to come out and say, "You know what, Chuck, you're right - I am one of the principals of the Orlando Aces, you win a cookie!"

[The Magician]

preeths again...

I am not claiming to be a wise on - I am countering the so-called experts who started the post.

No, not an expert ...

But I do know that the ABA needs a NEW CEO!

[zeke41]

He's made several references to Orlando in his posts, including most recently referencing going to Tinker Field for minor league baseball games, and not wanting to spend $50 for tickets at Orlando Magic games. So he's either part of the Aces or one of their investors. He'll deny it, but then again I'm not expecting him to come out and say, "You know what, Chuck, you're right - I am one of the principals of the Orlando Aces, you win a cookie!"

Well I don't know of any other owner other than Todd Triplett, and, well..let's just say if there is someone else, and there's more money than we have, somebody had better write me a check really fast.

I just accepted a 3-month position with Sun Sports/ Fox Sports Network - Florida. They needed someone to handle some administrative duties for 3 months while someone takes maternity leave. I could be networking/marketing the team to some important figures.

Also, I just found out that one of my neighbors is a dance choreographer for Disney-MGM studios. She is interested in helping us launch a quality dance team.

Let's see what I've done so far -

Partnership with Azteca America (Hispanic television company which will also provide an in with the "Kissimmee" city officials)
Rock for Hunger (see the myspace page)
Found a "Conditioning" Coach
Dance Team Choreographer - from Disney
Networking opportunities with Sun Sports/FSN-Florida
Created our Sponsorship Package Power Point presentation
An innovative idea for a youth basketball camp that you don't want to promote
Possible sponsorship with...
- Primerica Investments
- Saturn
- Sleep Number Beds

Sure, I'm all about getting experience, but...there does come a time when you have to pay somebody for what they are worth. ABA Insider, if you're an investor with the Aces, or you are here in Orlando, I'd like to speak with you about your involvement please! I've been burned once (and I've been REAL quiet about it, JOE & company)...I won't be burned again!

[tbayz1]

good work Zeke, sounds like youre doing everything for that team, you better get a check!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geez, Zeke, you could probably run your own team, hope that PBL can get off the ground in the future for ya!

[TheStandard]

Zeke if you don't get paid. Hit em up at court hard and harder

[tbayz1]

agreed!!! lol

[zeke41]

I appreciate sentiment everyone. I guess I'm getting the most out of what all of these broke ABA owners call "internships" and such. But when your GM is an "Intern" (or let's be real, and extern, because SOMEtimes, interns get paid, externs don't), you know the team and the league has problems.

I'm blessed. My wife makes enough money so I'm able to invest so much of my time in something I'm passionate about - basketball. It's just too bad no REAL owners with REAL cash want to invest here. Then I could get paid, because I know I've put in valuable work that merits some sort of check. Anyway, I'm here, and I see the potential. I'm constantly building up my resume and experience for when I do get an opportunity to make some real money. I'm aware of the status of my situation, and that's why I recently took a temporary assignment as administrative support aid for Sun Sports and Fox Sports Network here in Florida. You never know who I might bump into.

So many people have advised me to keep my info to a minimum on here, but quite frankly, I'm tired and...what do I have to lose? This is reality. This is the league that we are discussing and, sorry ABA insider, ABA 06er, and whoever else is working for the ABA...it's not that great. What about me, guys...huh? Hey Joe...can you spare 20-30K for a guy that made a miracle happen in Orlando last year? Lord knows Mr. Lyons took all of my money, and no one did a thing to help me! Ohh..perhaps I shouldn't discuss that whole matter. Perhaps my frustration is why you have Todd trying to shove me out of the picture lately. Afraid of the PBL taking Orlando, too?

I know I can run my own team. I know that because I've done it...I did it last year. I would own my own team if I had the money, but I'm no idiot like these other people. I'm NOT ABOUT TO get a loan, cash in on my retirement, etc. just to send in a 10K check. I have the skills, I have the business savvy, professional character, and...most importantly, I have great vision. I'm particularly proud of the Aces vision statement, which is directly from me. The only problem I have is I don't have the finances to own my own team (by the way...I am NOT soliciting for anything here - I will have the money in the distant future). You see, I realize that. It's reality!

But...trust me...if I pull out of this thing, the Aces will be lucky to survive, unless maybe ABA Insider IS involved or someone else drops some serious cash into the team. And if that happens, they may want to consider my accomplishments and keep me around, 'cause I KNOW I can get it done here.

[tbayz1]

Well spoken Zeke, you deserve so much credit, and you also deserve one big:

AMEN!!!!!!!!

[bomp]

He's made several references to Orlando in his posts, including most recently referencing going to Tinker Field for minor league baseball games, and not wanting to spend $50 for tickets at Orlando Magic games. So he's either part of the Aces or one of their investors. He'll deny it, but then again I'm not expecting him to come out and say, "You know what, Chuck, you're right - I am one of the principals of the Orlando Aces, you win a cookie!"

Cookies? Chuck, you have cookies? And you haven't shared with the rest of us?? ;)

Zeke, look if you want to support an Orlando team that wants to do it right, check this out. http://www.orlandosharks.com/ . Now it's not basketball but if you can sell, I'll bet they will consider hiring you.

I get a kick out of the owner's first name. It's Sham!!! He should be in the ABA as Commissioner. ;)

[zeke41]

Thanks, BOMP. Unfortunately, I'm particularly passionate about basketball. I don't know the first thing about soccer, but...nice website plug. I can't certainly learn a lot from their site.

[preeths]

preeths again...

I am not claiming to be a wise on - I am countering the so-called experts who started the post.

No, you're not. You're making stuff up and hoping no one calls you on it.

It is a good strategy, defend by going on the attack and obfuscation.

Wait, where have we seen that strategy before... Oh yeah, Ask the CEO releases from the ABA.

Here is the crumb's answer - I don't know the numbers, but I am sure most of us can find them on the internet and some posters have already replied. I have attended Twins minor league games at Tinker Field in orlando back in the 70's; been to Lookouts games in Chattanooga, and been to about a half-dozen CBA games in my lifetime, 2 USBL games, and a dozen or so ABA games.

The venues looked the same to me - mostly empty.

To argue otherwise would simply be lying.

And your point is? We were talking about attendance, not percentage of capacity or your perception that no one goes to minor league sports events. Truth (you may have to look up the word) is, you have no idea what you are talking about.

I consider an ABA game with 500-1000 good attendance for the ABA.

Anything under 500 and I would say you are about to fold.

How many ABA teams draw more than 500 per game?

But I have not seen ANYTHIING EVER better at NBDL games on the NBA channel, and neither has my PERSONAL experience seen anything better elsewhere.

There were at least 100 minor league games played yesterday alone with a better attendance than 500. Again, you don't know what you are talking about. As for the D-League, you conveniently ignore Idaho, Sioux Falls and Dakota, off the top of my head.

Again, just you guys with an anti-ABA agenda. What is amazing how nothing really is new on this board - I check it 3-4 times a week, spend about a half an hour of my time here a week, and find the same old posters saying the same old things.

When things change, then you'll see a difference in the posts. Until then, what do you expect?

[Pounder]

On one hand, Idaho is a bad example. The distance between announced and actual is a staggering percentage. That used to be made up with the expensive seats and the "party tables," but I noticed that lagging a bit last year.

OTOH, funny that Orlando baseball was mentioned. They lost AA ball, correct? It's freaking hot in the summer in Orlando (I do have a buddy who lived there for a while), and many teams playing outdoors have come and either gone or are about to figure that out. Any attempt to extend that to the rest of the country is, however, hilariously ludricrous.

That's just one of many reasons that preeths is right about our temporarily banned "insider".

[BreakersFan]

On one hand, Idaho is a bad example. The distance between announced and actual is a staggering percentage. That used to be made up with the expensive seats and the "party tables," but I noticed that lagging a bit last year.

OTOH, funny that Orlando baseball was mentioned. They lost AA ball, correct? It's freaking hot in the summer in Orlando (I do have a buddy who lived there for a while), and many teams playing outdoors have come and either gone or are about to figure that out. Any attempt to extend that to the rest of the country is, however, hilariously ludricrous.

That's just one of many reasons that preeths is right about our temporarily banned "insider".


Just a point of information: The Orlando Sharks are an INDOOR SOCCER team.

[bomp]

Just a point of information: The Orlando Sharks are an INDOOR SOCCER team.

Right. I only suggested it to Zeke as they are in his town and just starting up. No, not basketball but my guess is he would actually get paid.

[heavesrock]

ORlando's AA failed not because it was hot, but because they moved from downtown to Disney.

[Paul S]

ORlando's AA failed not because it was hot, but because they moved from downtown to Disney.

Well then they are going to be in good company. Anything to do with the ABA is about to fail and this whole ridiculous league is Mickey Mouse.

[cglue]

I don't know... the Texas Tycoons couldn't make things work in Fort Worth in 2004, so they folded - er - relocated to another city after sporting what, a 1-3 record? The D-League Fort Worth franchise stuck it out for two years, they're moving to possibly Reno - so how come if an ABA team moves it's not folding, but if a D-League team moves then it is? Selective rules? Oh wait, I forgot - the current ABA is ALL about selective rules. Or would you like me to bring up how the ABA screwed the Gallup Talons and Florida Pit Bulls out of the playoffs due to Crazy Joe's temper tantrums; or how the Mississippi Miracles got screwed out of travel costs due to Crazy Joe's ultimatums; or would you like me to continue?

Nah... didn't think you would.

Actually it was 2005 after Hurricane Katrina had wiped out half the division and they had a 3-0 record. Folding regardless of what league you are in isnt good but dont make excuses.

cglue

[cglue]

I dont know who you have been talking to but you may be misguided on this one my friend. Please dont believe that mess that A1sports posted a few days ago and base your opinion on that. Thats why he post threads like that anyway. That will soon end and you will soon see that in a few days and see if A1sports will volunteer a link to that one. The league will start on time this season and if anyone you know has concerns then you tell them to get in touch with me and we discuss this issue further.

cglue

[bomp]

Well then they are going to be in good company. Anything to do with the ABA is about to fail and this whole ridiculous league is Mickey Mouse.

Paul kids around but I know who is and he knows quite a bit about professional sports. Some body should hire this guy. He will make you some money.

I don't know if the PBL will work but I know that Doyle knows what he is doing and want his business partners to make money. Has Joe made anyone money?

The Rochester franchise is the real deal and has to compete with the AHL and the NLL teams in their building. They know what they are doing. I know Gym Coyne and I think, despite the USBL fiasco, the CBA will grow. Albany is a good market and Pittsburgh should be one too. The teams out west I have no idea about but since Drucker, the CBA has been innovative. A CBA-PBL combo would be great and might finally stabilize minor league basketball. I know that the ABA is doomed despite the good intentions of Vermont, Buffalo, Corning and Mr. Fakers over there. (Ooops! Takers---I'm sorry. Sounds like the name of Joe's team. HE IS A TAKER!)

And I do believe that their intentions are GOOD. The road to hell is full of them I'm told though. ;)

[cglue]

Paul kids around but I know who is and he knows quite a bit about professional sports. Some body should hire this guy. He will make you some money.

I don't know if the PBL will work but I know that Doyle knows what he is doing and want his business partners to make money. Has Joe made anyone money?

The Rochester franchise is the real deal and has to compete with the AHL and the NLL teams in their building. They know what they are doing. I know Gym Coyne and I think, despite the USBL fiasco, the CBA will grow. Albany is a good market and Pittsburgh should be one too. The teams out west I have no idea about but since Drucker, the CBA has been innovative. A CBA-PBL combo would be great and might finally stabilize minor league basketball. I know that the ABA is doomed despite the good intentions of Vermont, Buffalo, Corning and Mr. Fakers over there. (Ooops! Takers---I'm sorry. Sounds like the name of Joe's team. HE IS A TAKER!)

And I do believe that their intentions are GOOD. The road to hell is full of them I'm told though. ;)

Wow, you call me fake, i havent called anyone a name to prove a point since 5th grade. So I guess that mean that you are intimidated by me being here, oh dont back up now, you're the one that said it. LOL, Faker, dude thats cute.

cglue

cglue

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

Actually it was 2005 after Hurricane Katrina had wiped out half the division and they had a 3-0 record. Folding regardless of what league you are in isnt good but dont make excuses.

cglue

Katrina has become a touchpoint for revisionist history with Joe and the ABA.

In mid-August 2005 both of the Louisiana-based ABA teams (the Blues and Cajun Pelicans) were moved to the 06-07 expansion list. Neither was part of the initial schedule for that season.

When Katrina hit (in early September), there was only one active franchise in the Gulf region - Mississippi. They were certainly affected, to be sure, but not crippled; in fact, they held a team tryout camp about three weeks later (http://www.abalive.com/news/releases/?newsid=2005091406002).

Katrina did not affect the ABA schedule, and did not hamper teams from traveling to games. Heck, Chattanooga folded pretty much the day of their first game, and I missed the TV highlights of the damage it received from the flooding.

Katrina became a convenient excuse for the ABA failings in 05-06, a way to shift the blame away from the same recurring issues that plague the league every season.

[OneBetter]

Joe is a taker right up until your check clears his off-shore bank account. At that point, he makes you the taker when he bends you over.

[bomp]

Wow, you call me fake, i havent called anyone a name to prove a point since 5th grade. So I guess that mean that you are intimidated by me being here, oh dont back up now, you're the one that said it. LOL, Faker, dude thats cute.

cglue

cglue



Gee, you don't like answering questions do you? Try reading what I said next time, sir.

I'm not the one who is losing money in a business. You are.

Enjoy yourself. That's your team's name, isn't it?

[cglue]

Gee, you don't like answering questions do you? Try reading what I said next time, sir.

I'm not the one who is losing money in a business. You are.

Enjoy yourself. That's your team's name, isn't it?



Wow, "Im not the one losing money in a business, you are".

Man please, how old are you bro?

cglue