More Deletions on the CIFL Board

[WorcShark]

Was in the Stallions Forum on the official CIFL Site.
Perhaps instead of deleting what people already have read (and like me saved), you should answer to it instead of acting like its a cover up?

This was deleted twice:

This will eventually get deleted from this message board, and I will be banned. But I am tired of reading this BS from people not in the know. D-lo and Justin betrayed this team. Getteys stole, and D-Lo vanished, period. Owners spend money to make money, someone forgot to tell them that. They just thought they made money. Kris, sometimes here, sometimes not.

Coach Rychel put in more money to this team than the wonderful D-lo brown. I must sincerely apologize to Coach Rychel. I AM the head coach of this team. I decided to resign so I could play with my guys because we DIDNT HAVE ENOUGH. But * hit the fan, and Coach Raychel is stuck with the HC title. All he wanted to do was VOLUNTEER his TIME. Not his MONEY!! But he was sooooo damn committed to seeing this thing out he did what he thought was needed to make it go until the end. Corey is in the same boat. I didn't see ANYONE else jumping up after money was missing and anyone who cared knew this team was in a tail spin, and say YES I WANT TO BE THE GM OF A FAILING TEAM AND ORGINIZATION!!!!! But Cory did. Wanted to see it go until the end. He mended may burnt bridges, and made some good contacts.

The players got screwed. Would you show up to work KNOWING damn well you were not going to be paid? Hell no!! Especially a collision sport like indoor football. But yet we STILL had 10-13 core group of players that showed up week in and week out to play for free. And the icing on the cake, go play without any insurance. Man I bet we could get 500 people to tryout next year using that as a marketing tool. Even IF MY players wanted to play last weekend in Marion, without insurance, I would have never allowed it, at least not with me present. People have lives, jobs, and families, and to sacrifice your LIVE to satisfy Kevin Keller you nutz!!!! I want to win just as much as the next guy, put not at the expense of players lives outside of football. Kill me but I have a conscious, I dont just see dollar signs.

The rest of the staff and organization was screwed by Mr. Keller AGAIN. Jeff and Eric are truly good people and run a good league. They will learn from their mistakes. And hopefully the learn from putting an incompetent a-hole like Keller as the "voice of the league" or the PR guy. I got my pee pee slapped by Keller when we didn't show up to Stubenville, and he put out a "press release". His version of the facts were far from truthful. So I did what any good coach would do, I stood up for my players, and sent out my own press release. Apparently Mr. Keller did not like that. Why? Because my release was nothing but facts supported with a chronological order (thats a time line Kevin...FYI) of dates and times and people I spoke with. Mr. Keller thought I "pulled the rug out from under the leagues feet" to enable him to send out a retraction or a correction. Well if you release FACTS you don't need a retraction. If you quote someone, DONT MAKE IT UP!!!!!! If the ownership steals money, and the team is struggling, don't throw the players and staff under the bus, throw the OWNERS. How many other coaches in this league have to wash and dry the players uniforms? Rychel did it, Corey did it, I did it. We also pick all of em up after games (nasty sweaty pants), hauled equipment around everywhere, Bought the team socks, belts, wrist coaches, wrist bands, and gloves. Why? Because we felt like our guys deserved SOMETHING, and they weren't getting it from any of the three amigos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now this Marion mess. They are a class team and organization, and what happened is a shame. But I am reading all these posts. It appears that the league was notified on Thursday that we were not going to make it. I have also read on here that Marion was notified that "our bus broke down in Illinois" I don't know if that actually happened, but it smells like a Kevin Keller statement. I was also told that the league and or Mr. Keller was going to send me a retraction / correction on the press release from Sunday because the league (Keller) committed "Defamation of Character" when the blame was wrongly put on Rychel and Corey, and their personal businesses were affected by their "PUBLIC PRESS RELEASE". 0-2 Keller. I may be 0-12 for the year as a coach, but my players, staff, and opposing coaches respect us, .........more than I can say for you. I think this league, Jeff and Eric would serve better if you just went away, most people in your position have a degree in communication. If you do, please let me know from what College, so I don't send my kids there.

I just wanna say thanks to all of the teams and players we had the opportunity to play against. They are all great people. JR and Big Dog, Thanks. People here appreciate your kind words, class people. Indoor Vet I hope you look at the appropriate people to point the finger at, because it is not us. If it was, I along with Coach Rychel, Taylor and Corey are man enough to admit it unlike other OWNERS who just vanish and hide. GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE IN THE PLAYOFFS, STAY HEALTHY AND GOD BLESS.


That is all I have feel free to email my personal account I will tell you the truth. Jeff and or Eric call me if you need anything. Keller don't even think about it. rochester746@yahoo.com


Coach / Player Gade
Springfield Stallions 2007

[preeths]

Just to clarify, I assume the poster is referring to the above material being deleted on the CIFL website's message board, not our boards.

[WorcShark]

Just to clarify, I assume the poster is referring to the above material being deleted on the CIFL website's message board, not our boards.

You are correct - sorry about that!!

[Sykotyk]

Doesn't surprise me. I know that the CIFL is open about their boards, but a lot of extremely negative stuff gets deleted.

But also a lot of that is because of liability. If you make unfounded accusations, or even ones with some teeth to 'em, there's a good chance it'll be deleted.

To me, if you want to ask, IM Jeff Spitaleri and ask about it, or call the league office.

Sykotyk

[Coach Gade]

heres their reply to my post

Sorry Guest, you are banned from using this forum!
Thanks for the memories Coach...


Good response. Truth hurts CIFL, dont hide fix it

[Surgefan]

Those guys are in over their head, and they seem to hire people more clueless than they are.

[exit322]

It is absolutely in the league's realm of appropriateness to delete posts on a board it owns.

It's not usually great PR to do it liberally as they may sometimes do, but in terms of "ethical concerns," there are none. And with most of the posts I've seen them delete (despite being banned from the board myself, haha), they're usually well within the realm of reasonableness.

Remember, a message board doesn't have those First Amendment rights everyone likes to complain about.

[Tatonka]

AND, the above rant was reposted about 8 times, in various topics in several sections of the forum. It was deleted as much for the spamming as for the content.

Coach Gade, you know we don't allow personal insults or name-calling on the board, and you showed that you knew that when your started off the post by saying "This will eventually get deleted from this message board, and I will be banned..."

What did you expect us to do?

[WorcShark]

Telling the truth in your press releases would be a start, or in some cases even putting out press releases at all, or in a timely fashion. Ok, so forget about the insults and name calling in the post - how do you or the league respond here? Only response from the league was delete and ignore before on the league's message board. You can't delete or "lock and move on" here, so what says you? I tend wonder not just how much is hidden from fans, but other owners as well.

[Surgefan]

What did you expect us to do?

Telling the truth would be a good starting point.

I don't care about that CIFL board one iota, and couldn't care less what you keep or delete. Every press release about all the problems the league is having contains lies.

The internet is a great tool for getting your message out. It's also a great tool for others to say what they know about your message.

And that's where your problem is.

[exit322]

I don't know enough about the inside stuff there to know what's true and what's not from the league's point of view. But if press releases from the league are outright lies, that's probably not a good thing.

[WorcShark]

Or just not telling the full story.

[exit322]

Or just not telling the full story.

Well, you're rarely going to get "the full story" out of a league press release. That shouldn't surprise anyone, nor should it be expected.

[Surgefan]

Well, you're rarely going to get "the full story" out of a league press release. That shouldn't surprise anyone, nor should it be expected.

Then why delete posts that give "the full story"?

[WorcShark]

Well, you're rarely going to get "the full story" out of a league press release. That shouldn't surprise anyone, nor should it be expected.

Well, they need to make sure that the "real" story doesn't get out - like it has numerous times this year. Most leagues/teams understand how/when to pick their spots on releases and know what to say or what not to say. Instead, the CIFL has embarrassed itself several times.

Sure, PR involves popularizing successes, downplaying failures, announcing changes, etc. But when you don't tell your own owners the full truth, or lie issues with owners/coaches, I feel that crosses the line.

[exit322]

That's where the issue would come in, yes. Internally, everyone needs to know the issues and what they are. Of course, they need to also know that these issues really don't want to become externally known, as they have a few times this season.

[Coach Gade]

The CIFL has such a great potential to be a good league. Jeff and Eric just dont listen to the right people. Keller is a "Dee Dee Dee" (Carlos Mencia!!). I have received so many overwhelming e-mails supporting our team, and agreeing with my stance. I did expect to be banned. I also expected a phone call from Jeff or Eric so we could talk. Never happened. The league has 10 different sets of game rules. Almost every game we played there was a different set of rules, I addressed that with a league official at 1 of our games. SHe stated that the league head of officials would call me. It never happened. I spoke with JEff and Eric a few weeks ago. We both agreed that when **** hit the fan here, we (both sides) would refrain from throwing each other under the bus, and we would put all responsibility on the teams finincial failures on the owners. We spoke at length about that. Then Keller runs his mouth, throwing our GM and interm-head coach under the bus. I spoke at length with the K-Zoo staff, Port Huron staff, and Miami Valley Staff, we all had the same feelings. League has potential, just listen to the right people. Heck I even had the guy who was in Kellers position last year e-mail me. The fact remains that no matter what, the league could not fix our finincial woes, but either could the coaching staff, or the players. I would not have been sooo negative toward the league, but when they start publically pointing the finger at the absolute wrong people, I have something to say. They actually pointed the finger at thoses who stayed here all the way through the b.s., cared about the team, and wanted to finish out the season. So we got screwed by the league because we cared. And Im not saying Jeff and Eric are DIRECTLY responsible for that, but one of their employees is, so that holds them accountable. Just like if one of my players went up into the stands and started a fight, I would hold myself responsible, that player is under my direction. Step up Eric and Jeff, thats all I ask. This team and staff had great heart and compassion for the game that is evident when they decided to play for free bacisally the entire season. But when your staff members say "you should have travelled 6 hours on your own to play if you love the game so much", " Your players stole equpiment" and to make up a quote from an owner, and print it as a quote.......thats just wrong.

On the leagues message board that stated that they have taken over control of our team. Should I then send them all of the outstanding bills that Kris, D-Lo and Justin have accumulated? Just a thought. I might give everyone we owe money to, the leagues office number.

[exit322]

I can tell you that it's likely the league wouldn't owe the money, but the LLC or whatever still controlled by the former owners of the team. The league only took the CIFL franchise and the name; not the bills.

That said, if people want to sue, the league's just about the only thing left to sue.

[Surgefan]

The Surge found out about the potential of the Stampede using replacement players by a fan telling an assistant coach about 90 minutes before the scheduled kickoff in a corner bodega. I was standing right behind them in line, and the surprise on the coach's face was very easy to see.

[exit322]

Basically, same thing happened in Marion.

[WorcShark]

Basically, same thing happened in Marion.

Except the league at least apologized to the fans in Marion.

[Tatonka]

Telling the truth in your press releases would be a start, or in some cases even putting out press releases at all, or in a timely fashion. Ok, so forget about the insults and name calling in the post - how do you or the league respond here? Only response from the league was delete and ignore before on the league's message board. You can't delete or "lock and move on" here, so what says you? I tend wonder not just how much is hidden from fans, but other owners as well.


I don't write the press releases, so I can't help you with that one...

What is difficult about writing your "truthful" press releases, is finding out who's story contains the most truth. I can't tell you how many different sides of stories we've heard from the Springfiled organization, because they have never presented ONE VOICE to speak for them. Two players, two coaches, two GMs, and like four owners have all given different representations of what's going on from day to day... whom do you believe?

There's no simple answer to that... we're just trying to do what we think is our best option with what information we have at the time.

[Coach Gade]

Two players, two coaches, two GMs, and like four owners have all given different representations of what's going on from day to day... whom do you believe?

There's no simple answer to that... we're just trying to do what we think is our best option with what information we have at the time.






If the league or anyone reading this wanted a TRUTHFUL answer, all they had to do was call ME. I have been nothing but truthful to my players, and staff. I gave honest answers to the league when they called me about the Stubenville game. We (players and staff) never got truthful answers from the owners. They never gave truthful answers to Jerry Lakin when he was GM, so his answers to questions we had were not truthful. Not because he lied, but he was lied to by Justin and D-Lo. Its a f-up situation, but all they had to do was call me, and I know Jeff and Eric are aware of that. Plain and simple. Ask the State Journal Register paper here in Spfld, I always tell it how it is.

[WorcShark]

I don't write the press releases, so I can't help you with that one...

What is difficult about writing your "truthful" press releases, is finding out who's story contains the most truth. I can't tell you how many different sides of stories we've heard from the Springfiled organization, because they have never presented ONE VOICE to speak for them. Two players, two coaches, two GMs, and like four owners have all given different representations of what's going on from day to day... whom do you believe?

There's no simple answer to that... we're just trying to do what we think is our best option with what information we have at the time.

Maybe for next year it might help for each person to designate a spokesperson - a "governor" if you will. Kind of like the AHL. One spokesperson to deal with the business side and to present what is going on to the league, and also someone the league can communicate back to. Even if that person is an owner. Say that person (even if an owner) leaves or is removed, the very 1st piece of busines from the league should be "who is the governor?".
Just a thought to help when things like this arise.

[Surgefan]

If they'd stop deleting posts they could just read their own forum. :D

[Tatonka]

Maybe for next year it might help for each person to designate a spokesperson - a "governor" if you will. Kind of like the AHL. One spokesperson to deal with the business side and to present what is going on to the league, and also someone the league can communicate back to. Even if that person is an owner. Say that person (even if an owner) leaves or is removed, the very 1st piece of busines from the league should be "who is the governor?".
Just a thought to help when things like this arise.

I agree... each team should have a PR rep or spokesperson to present a unified approach to the league and to the media.

[preeths]

And to send out press releases!

[Coach Gade]

In regards to the Springfield State Journal-Register article titled “CIFL takes control of Stallions,” the Continental Indoor Football League issues the following statement:
“In no way did we intend to make statements that we could not trust Kevin Gade, Cory Galloway or Jim Rychel. Those gentlemen did everything they could to keep the team alive and we certainly appreciate their efforts. The comments regarding the Stallions and its management related to the ownership group. We did what was best for the league as a whole and the Chicago Slaughter. This league in no way blames Gade, Galloway or Rychel for the failures of the Springfield organization. They donated personal money and time and went above and beyond the call of duty to help the Springfield organization.”

"Too little too late, Mr. Keller." - Coach Gade
p.s. I still won't send my kids to your college!!

[Bonzogonzo24]

Keller has to go. He's cost the league a lot of fans. I'm sure he's a great guy, but he has no business as a media relations director. He wears his emotions on his sleeve and shoots his mouth off way too much. Not good.

[mrinsideto-u]

Word has it that a FEW CIFL teams are reviewing their options about moving to the AIFA, word of this soon to follow.

[Tatonka]

That's not news... everyone knows they've been courting everyone to join their nation-wide super-league.

We take it as a compliment that other leagues want our teams. That being said, if a CIFL team feels comfortable with the trip to Wyoming in the new AIFA, more power to 'em.

[Crimefighter]

Considering a few teams were practically DRIVEN out of the league...it's no surprise they're looking for someone else to go...especially with a very irresponsible and reckless league official Kevin Keller who should be forced to step down as he has repeatedly run his mouth disparging innocent parties and having to make multiple retractions when confronted with the facts. That guy DOES NOT LEARN. GET RID OF HIM!

[Sykotyk]

We already know Rochester is not happy and just using the talk of going to the AIFA as a way to say 'look at me' to the CIFL.

Remember, not long ago they were talking about AF2, but found out it's too costly. And now they're talking about the UIF.

It's a teenager striking out for attention, nothing more.

Besides, it's better to deal with the devil you know, then the devil you don't.

Sykotyk

[Crimefighter]

Well the Stallions won't be going back, that's for sure.

[ChampionOfSteel]

...but found out it's too costly.
I don't see the gift of vision in you. Not an insult by the way.

More costly = keeps all teams afloat for the entire season is a good thing.

Thinking outside of the box: start a semi pro league for players and coaches that do not get paid. The players and coaches pay a fee to the team president as well. That, in and of itself changes the particulars of your budget and could work to ensure all teams in a small local/regional league make it thru an entire season. Have an eight game regular season (4 home and 4 away). Another idea is the players get paid a commission (equal revenue sharing) if there's anything left after the league's bills have been paid.

Besides, it's better to deal with the devil you know, then the devil you don't.

Haven't seen the movie Braveheart lately, have you? Your comment reminds me of the Irish without balls that fight over the scraps Longshanks leaves them (AIFA alternative). You should go and invade England like the folks in AF2, IFL and WIFL did rather than following your own self-imposed glass ceiling that you must join an existing league, that was a heartbeat from losing teams during the season -- Tallahassee Titans. The AIFA did not have a safety net of sorts in 2007 and probably won't in 2008 if you don't demand it and join them.

You've pissed away your God given right to do it yourself the right way. You've left your success in someone else's hands.

Mercy?! No way! FREEEEEEEEEEEEEE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!

[Sykotyk]

The problem, CoS, is that you don't get it that Rochester doesn't have the money to join the AF2. It's not that they're just being 'cheap', it's just that they don't have it, and even if they did, they'd still jack up the ticket prices if they did go AF2 and go to the BCA.

So, effectively, despite making it through their season because the AF2 has a ton of money, they'd still have no team at the end of that first season.

Sykotyk

[ChampionOfSteel]

The problem, CoS, is that you don't get it that Rochester doesn't have the money to join the AF2. It's not that they're just being 'cheap', it's just that they don't have it, and even if they did, they'd still jack up the ticket prices if they did go AF2 and go to the BCA.

So, effectively, despite making it through their season because the AF2 has a ton of money, they'd still have no team at the end of that first season.

Sykotyk

Sounds like a good tradeoff to me. Do it right for one year and you're done vs. do it almost right and stick around for 3 years with a few of your fellow teams failing during the season. The first one would be my preference even if that means just two extremely strong extra leagues beyond AF2 end up existing. The others should be labeled semi pro indoor leagues with the format being no one gets paid. Everyone is an amateur. No one gets stiffed under that format. Everyone works their regular job and practices just two nights a week unlike the for-pay leagues.

More good comes from that chosen format -- definite semi pro format or well funded pro league. No one gets stiffed on unfulfilled promises to be paid.

Winging it causes more harm than good (ala CIFL).

Thing are cool on my end as long as you don't take it personally that I point out "some type" of hefty cash account tax system should be in place to ensure everyone makes it through an entire season, when I see you posting stuff that says AF2 or AF2-like business models are too expensive to do. If a league can't conservatively do that, they need to be advertised as an amateur (semi pro) league and not professional and operate accordingly with no intentions to ever pay their players/coaches.

It is all a matter of ethics and conversative business planning, which is frankly the right and just thing to do.

[Sykotyk]

Sounds like a good tradeoff to me. Do it right for one year and you're done vs. do it almost right and stick around for 3 years with a few of your fellow teams failing during the season. The first one would be my preference even if that means just two extremely strong extra leagues beyond AF2 end up existing. The others should be labeled semi pro indoor leagues with the format being no one gets paid. Everyone is an amateur. No one gets stiffed under that format. Everyone works their regular job and practices just two nights a week unlike the for-pay leagues.

I actually agree with you there. The big problem with ALL these leagues, from the AF2 down, is a mandatory amount of pay that every team must pay, regardless if in the end their market can't support it.

More good comes from that chosen format -- definite semi pro format or well funded pro league. No one gets stiffed on unfulfilled promises to be paid.

Winging it causes more harm than good (ala CIFL).

I think the CIFL got in over their head, similar to Haines in 2006. I don't think they thought they were taking a risk with Ramone, because they were misinformed by him how much money he had, and the line-of-credit he had suddenly disappeared midseason.

Thing are cool on my end as long as you don't take it personally that I point out "some type" of hefty cash account tax system should be in place to ensure everyone makes it through an entire season, when I see you posting stuff that says AF2 or AF2-like business models are too expensive to do. If a league can't conservatively do that, they need to be advertised as an amateur (semi pro) league and not professional.

The issue is what you call semi-pro. Despite what the 'semi' and the 'pro' mean separately, decades of history have created the meaning for semi-pro to be a team formed by the players who all pay dues to play, and despite the 'pro' part of their name, don't actually get paid.

If you want to use the 'semi' and 'pro' meanings individually, and then add them together, then any league where a player does not earn his primary or a good portion of, income, then he's semi-pro. Many AFL and CFL players would qualify as many have off-season jobs to compensate their pay in the those leagues.

I don't doubt that the AF2 setup is the best to ensure every team makes it through the season. What I do doubt is that it can sustain MANY teams for a long time when their fans are taxed heavily to subsidize other teams that are failing. 90% of markets wouldn't be able to afford it. Anything under the big-but-not-large markets level that the AF2 tends to occupy (i.e., markets just short of the AFL) would be unable to obtain from ticket sales in their cities enough to not only fund themselves cheaply, but also to help other teams that may fold.

Most indoor teams operate on a $200k-$300k budget. The AF2 is in bigger cities and generally operate on a $600k-$1m budget. Now, when you consider that an AF2 failing can result in a barebones shell of a team playing out the string (even though they're the same players) for about what a barebones CIFL, AIFA, NIFL team could do, they can obtain that amount from their budgets to do that.

It is all a matter of ethics and conversative business planning.

It's great on paper. But in reality, the truth stings.

Many markets would not be able to sustain that, and you'd have a very small group of teams spread throughout the country, where even to the point travel would become a major financial hurdle, and exacerbates the problem.

Sykotyk

[blanketman]

First of all, i know for a fact about Rochester.They are not going to the Af2 league.If Rochester wanted to go they could.Barto has more cash than you could ever dream.The problem is not the money to him;its the pay cut he would have to give his players.For instance,his players on average make about 350 a game.Af2 players make 200.He is going to stay in the CIFL; however,changes must be made.The problem with the CIFL is there needs to be quality ownership.Once the league can cleanse itself of 4 teams.IT will be fine.

[ChampionOfSteel]

The problem with the CIFL is there needs to be quality ownership.Once the league can cleanse itself of 4 teams.IT will be fine.

It's just not quality ownership that needs repair.

The CIFL needs to examine the lopsided scores issues and perhaps the *game system that may need to be tweaked* before the 2008 season, as well as their public speaking issues, right?

I'm not coming back to Miami Valley or Marion until that stuff gets fixed...and that's with or without solid ownership in place.

*-Yes, I realize many of you think the game system is fine. Let's make sure in the offseason by examining game tape from this year and scrimmaging with new ideas before next year just to be sure.

[Crimefighter]

The lopsided scores might had been lessened if the scheduled were set up where everyone played each team in their division at least once.

[ChampionOfSteel]

The lopsided scores might had been lessened if the scheduled were set up where everyone played each team in their division at least once.

That's an interesting twist. Can you explain what you mean?

We should throwout games involving replacement players/teams and those games where the players were a heartbeat from walking away due to the owner's inability to pay them earlier in the week -- attention span was somewhere else instead of playing the game.

[Crimefighter]

Well some teams were never scheduled to play certain teams in their own division...and lets forget about the substitute teams...for instance, two teams where going winless in one division, but the schedule was not set up where they had a game against each other, and some weak teams played the division leaders repeatedly but didn't get to play weaker teams.

[ChampionOfSteel]

Well some teams were never scheduled to play certain teams in their own division...and lets forget about the substitute teams...for instance, two teams where going winless in one division, but the schedule was not set up where they had a game against each other, and some weak teams played the division leaders repeatedly but didn't get to play weaker teams.

That would fool some people but it doesn't repair anything because I believe that still doesn't address the three distinct talent tiers of teams. Teams playing outside of their tier get hammered.

Even in the NFL, the worst team playing the best team doesn't get hammered like you see/saw in the CIFL. The score is still respectable.

[preeths]

Even in the NFL, the worst team playing the best team doesn't get hammered like you see/saw in the CIFL. The score is still respectable.

The NFL will always have a better shot at achieving parity than a minor league. The money and talent is dispersed so evenly, through the draft and TV revenue sharing, that it is difficult to be completely superior or inferior to the rest of the competition. That's not really a good example.

[ChampionOfSteel]

The NFL will always have a better shot at achieving parity than a minor league. The money and talent is dispersed so evenly, through the draft and TV revenue sharing, that it is difficult to be completely superior or inferior to the rest of the competition. That's not really a good example.

I agree. The NFL was not a good example since the NFL has a player draft.

Substitute leagues without a draft like the NIFL, IFL, UIF, AF2 or WIFL and you won't see (according to exit322's research) lopsided scores like you saw in the CIFL...this year and last year.

I don't see three tiers in comparable indoor leagues like we had in the CIFL.

On top of that, when you also might have a questionable game system that allows for a slight advantage in talent to steamroll over their lesser opponent, I don't believe scheduling teams primarily in their own talent tier solves anything. Better to not even have a league then to go through this crap again keeping everything "as is". Yes, I could be wrong about the game system having a significant role, but then again I could be right. Test these assumptions in the offseason.

[preeths]

Substitute leagues without a draft like the NIFL, IFL, UIF, AF2 or WIFL and you won't see (according to exit322's research) lopsided scores like you saw in the CIFL...this year and last year.

Sure you will, especially in the NIFL. You also will see some in the other leagues, though maybe not as many.

[Crimefighter]

Still, if a top tier team played only the bottom tier team the whole season and acculumated a 12-0 record, and another top tier team played other top tier and second tier teams ending up with a 6-6 record...that hardly makes the 12-0 team deserving of a league championship.

[Tatonka]

I suppose you guys knew what "talent tier" everyone belonged in back in October when we were working on the schedule? Before any of the new-for-'07 teams even had any players?

The issue concerning our schedule has been rehashed so many times on our board, that it's really not worth even bringing up again. Suffice it to say, it was impossible to make a "balanced" schedule with the dates we were given from some teams' arenas. Many of our teams play in hockey arenas and couldn't get good March dates as an example.

Going forward, we've already asked teams to begin securing as many weekend dates as possible for '08 so we have more to work with when it comes time to make the schedule for next season.

[ChampionOfSteel]

It's unfortunate Jeff Sagarin doesn't do indoor/arena ball:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt06.htm

My point is I think the CIFL may have the following type of Sagarin power rating for its league (difference between teams is the projected winning margin with 3.02 points added to the home team):

1. Port Huron 90.11
2. Kalamazoo 45.24
.
.
.
7. Marion 25.55
.
.
.
14. Springfield -10.47


Unlike other Indoor leagues with the same similar number of teams we get a better competitive spread where everyone is within 30 or less projected points of each other:

1. Sioux Falls 80.26
2. Billings 72.23
3. River City 70.79
.
.
.
11. Ohio Valley 51.32



That's about as good as I can explain it. The CIFL has a talent parity issue (and possibly a game system issue that adds gasoline to this already lit fire) that gives the statistical breakdown of having three distinct tiers of competitiveness.

This isn't something desirable for the fans.

The burden of defining the problem correctly and doing a repair job rests with the managers of this league.

[ChampionOfSteel]

I suppose you guys knew what "talent tier" everyone belonged in back in October when we were working on the schedule? Before any of the new-for-'07 teams even had any players?

The issue concerning our schedule has been rehashed so many times on our board, that it's really not worth even bringing up again. Suffice it to say, it was impossible to make a "balanced" schedule with the dates we were given from some teams' arenas. Many of our teams play in hockey arenas and couldn't get good March dates as an example.

Going forward, we've already asked teams to begin securing as many weekend dates as possible for '08 so we have more to work with when it comes time to make the schedule for next season.

I don't agree with those guys.

You did the right schedule format. Your other fellow indoor leagues recruit locally and have geographical divisions for playing most of their games against each other. But the CIFL for the second straight year had lopsided scores. That's why I think the game system bears part of the problem by allowing teams with a slight talent level to blowout their lesser opponent.

It's your dime. Investigate this issue in the offseason. The point is if you blow off your fans (former fans) suggestions and the league runs into this same problem in 2008, don't blame anyone else except those of you in charge that allowed your pride to get in the way of constructive criticism.

Research the issue. Prove it to yourself you got things under control.

If you are simply looking for new teams to join the league using the same 2007 rulebook, and without any plans to put age/experience limits on your rosters as a competitive cap because your game system is extremely sensitive to talent differences, you will fail in the same way you failed this year.

Remember it's your dime.

I want to say Good Luck but I don't really believe in that. Luck has very little to do with one's success.

That's about all I can say and will say. Back to the CFL until college and the NFL begin play.

[ml91]

But the CIFL for the second straight year had lopsided scores. That's why I think the game system bears part of the problem.
Dude, exactly how many messages do you plan on posting on these boards that contain the above statement? 500? 1,000? 10,000?

[cRUSHer]

Don't worry ...:-D

Next year the posts will read , "For the 3rd year in a row ..." **



** provided there is a 3rd year :roll:

[exit322]

It's starting to get highly questionable, though I do think the CIFL will kick off next year.

[RaiderNation]

I think the league will survive unless teams bolt to other leagues, and I'm not sure if strong options exist for teams. PH will probably fold, but that will still leave the league enough viable teams to move forward.

[Coach Gade]

The funny part is that amidst all of our financial woes here, we are still being courted by other leagues to join. We are having a meeting soon with the people who are willing to fund us next year. Will it happen? Who knows, there is lots of questions to be answered before we commit again. But it is a reflection of the core people who stayed here, with this team, and would like to see it happen, to have other leagues look at our situation and say " you guys had financial problems, and basically folded, none of which are player, or coaches fault. If you have the financial support we would love to have you in our league." I have had people from other leagues call me and say they heard that aside from ownership, we tried to run a class organization, and I feel that we did. Myself and everyone else around here love football, and we try to coach it like they did back in the day. No one is bigger than the game, respect the opponent, the officials, and the game. There were many other teams and coaches I met through the season, and I wish I had the opportunity to compete against them again, but not ever again in the CIFL. I know the CIFL feels the same way about us, and no disrespect to Jeff and Eric, class guys that handle volatile situations well, but the league has toooo many problems that they are unwilling to look at and fix. As long as they are making $$ they turn a blind eye. I dont wish misfortune on anyone, I just wish the other teams would get out and we could all join a league, and make the CIFL say, "We should have listened" not to me, but to everyone involved. Yeah you're never going to make everyone happy, but you need to try and make the majority happy. Good luck to all in the playoffs.

[Crimefighter]

For anyone trying to track down Gettys for his criminal conduct...he's been spotted in Marion, IN working for Extreme Wrestling Federation (www.ewfarena.com) as he is working indy shows in Indiana again.

[Coach Gade]

This is a truley honest question. If anyone hears of any current team changing leagues will someone please e-mail me. I am banned from the CIFL web site (truth hurts them) and there are good people in this league. I would like to go where we can 1st afford, and 2nd play with and aganist good quality people, with character, and intregrity. rochester746@yaoo.com thanks

[Bonzogonzo24]

For anyone trying to track down Gettys for his criminal conduct...he's been spotted in Marion, IN working for Extreme Wrestling Federation (www.ewfarena.com) as he is working indy shows in Indiana again.

That's funny. My folks live in Marion. Next time I go down there I might do some PI work. :cool: