Garbers expansion....

[logoguru]

Last night he mentioned these during the RSL/FCDAL game:

San Jose
Pacific Northwest
San Diego
Atlanta
and a Second NY


Is Phila/S NJ dead?

[dmbishop]

Well, once upon a time, when the LI RoughRiders were in the A-League (or whatever the second division was back then) and drawing 5000+ a game, there was talk of putting a 20000 seat soccer stadium on the Island and grooming the team for MLS. Then, through small budgets and bad marketing, they managed to let the franchise slip all the way down to the PDL (and <100 a game). In the process, they ruined the market.

If a second team was going to the NYC area, it would have to be either in the city (Randalls Island) or in Westchester / South Connecticut.

[Pounder]

Last night he mentioned these during the RSL/FCDAL game:

San Jose
Pacific Northwest
San Diego
Atlanta
and a Second NY


Is Phila/S NJ dead?

Next week: Put in another coin, press the spin button, and see which cities end up in the little windows. It'd be no different than Garber's MO.

You could argue that it's a bad strategy, and you'd probably be right. He hopes to create enough competition between cities that public funds become available... and if you look specifically at Bridgeview (Chicago Fire), that strategy already has one taker (I'm not counting the new Colorado stadium because of other circumstances, including the time that vote happened). You never know, because it looks shady, but it might be working.

This is what I know or hear:

SAN JOSE - Lew Wolff has moved on to land near San Jose Airport. It sounds like a deal is in the works... but we've heard that one before. However, as both parties are thinking creatively (this time, city of San Jose instead of San Jose State University), this one has a 55% chance of going through. It'll be curious to find out if this is in conjunction with another land deal Wolff has been trying to work, and if anyone raises objections because of it.

NORTHWEST - Michael Keston and his son James have purchased "market reservation" rights for Seattle and Portland. They're trying to play cities v cities and city v suburbs, looking for the best overall deal. This mucks with the current USL teams in the cities, and the Portland Timbers fan base is especially upset that the Kestons seem to ignore any sense of tradition. However, short of the Seattle suburb of Tukwila playing a development game with the Kestons ( http://seattle.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2007/06/11/story8.html?b=1181534400^1474301 ), since public funds are NOT easy issues in either area anymore, I have my doubts that anything happens. Only because of Tukwila, I give this a 40% chance.

SAN DIEGO - No knowledge in reality, but I wouldn't be surprised if another Mexican club is involved. The Murph? After nearly every tooth was pulled to get the Padres a new home, I can't imagine a new stadium here. No percentage until I hear something.

ATLANTA - The stadium built for the USL Silverbacks is phase 1 of a project designed for a minimum 15,000-seat facility, and I suspect MLS is trying to help this along. Public funds have not been forthcoming to this point, though I'm not sure if there was public land used for the project... which already has a major field complex in place. The Silverbacks ownership sound like they want to grow into this plan. Therefore: by 2010, 20%. By 2020, 75%.

NEW YORK - There's always another investor proposing a New York CITY club just before bailing when he finds out that public funds aren't forthcoming. Mind you, public LAND might become available as Shea gives way to the new Mets ballpark, or, well, I don't know, did Aqueduct Race Track ever get shut down? If public land is available (Red Bull Park sits on urban renewal land), someone might put up the money needed to build a park. 20%, because I doubt the land will be given up, and MSG will fight to keep those size concerts in the family.

PHILLY - I'd heard that Rowan already cut the stadium out of their plan, and while Philadelphia interests are poking around the suburbs looking for a site, things don't look so good right now. Of course, at Presidents Day 2004, who ever thought Salt Lake City would have a team? 15%, but if there's a surprise to be had, this is a place to look.

[bomp]

This is what I know or hear:

SAN JOSE - Lew Wolff has moved on to land near San Jose Airport. It sounds like a deal is in the works... but we've heard that one before. However, as both parties are thinking creatively (this time, city of San Jose instead of San Jose State University), this one has a 55% chance of going through. It'll be curious to find out if this is in conjunction with another land deal Wolff has been trying to work, and if anyone raises objections because of it.

NORTHWEST - Michael Keston and his son James have purchased "market reservation" rights for Seattle and Portland. They're trying to play cities v cities and city v suburbs, looking for the best overall deal. This mucks with the current USL teams in the cities, and the Portland Timbers fan base is especially upset that the Kestons seem to ignore any sense of tradition. However, short of the Seattle suburb of Tukwila playing a development game with the Kestons ( http://seattle.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2007/06/11/story8.html?b=1181534400^1474301 ), since public funds are NOT easy issues in either area anymore, I have my doubts that anything happens. Only because of Tukwila, I give this a 40% chance.

SAN DIEGO - No knowledge in reality, but I wouldn't be surprised if another Mexican club is involved. The Murph? After nearly every tooth was pulled to get the Padres a new home, I can't imagine a new stadium here. No percentage until I hear something.

ATLANTA - The stadium built for the USL Silverbacks is phase 1 of a project designed for a minimum 15,000-seat facility, and I suspect MLS is trying to help this along. Public funds have not been forthcoming to this point, though I'm not sure if there was public land used for the project... which already has a major field complex in place. The Silverbacks ownership sound like they want to grow into this plan. Therefore: by 2010, 20%. By 2020, 75%.

NEW YORK - There's always another investor proposing a New York CITY club just before bailing when he finds out that public funds aren't forthcoming. Mind you, public LAND might become available as Shea gives way to the new Mets ballpark, or, well, I don't know, did Aqueduct Race Track ever get shut down? If public land is available (Red Bull Park sits on urban renewal land), someone might put up the money needed to build a park. 20%, because I doubt the land will be given up, and MSG will fight to keep those size concerts in the family.

PHILLY - I'd heard that Rowan already cut the stadium out of their plan, and while Philadelphia interests are poking around the suburbs looking for a site, things don't look so good right now. Of course, at Presidents Day 2004, who ever thought Salt Lake City would have a team? 15%, but if there's a surprise to be had, this is a place to look.

The Bay Area will get a team by 2010. Garber wants Philly but not sure if it will happen. Seattle seems likely. Keston is just using Portland. Las Vegas looks like it will happen. NYC looks possible as well. They will go over 16 teams if stadiums are built and they come up with franchise fees.

[logoguru]

I think FIFA has capped all top leagues at 16.

Thats the first Ive heard of Vegas and Im from there (3 yrs removed, but still...super long shot pipe dream). I think Phoenix has a better chance, but then again its all about the stadium and Vegas can have one up in no time and public moneys no problem.

NYC if it were to get a 2nd team they would share the new stadium. Garber likes LA and wants to copy that model, which I think is BS, there are several markets that can handle MLS, theres no need for sharing markets, this isnt England, we have plenty of space, that thinking is actually part of the problem but this isnt the Green Peace boards =)

I would like to see Chivas go to SD if a stadium is ever resolved. There had been word of Club America trying to get a team, maybe theyd go to SD.

Thanks for clearing up why Atlanta was even mentioned, I was really confused about that one.

San Jose State is retarded, I should know, I graduated from there. These are the same geniuses that missed out on the XFL over concession revenue.

[bomp]

If FIFA has a limit of 16, that hasn't stopped MLS HQ talking about further expansion.

I wonder how they are going to get around that rule?? I can't imagine that the current owners would say no to collecting more expansion fees.

[RevolutionX]

Last night he mentioned these during the RSL/FCDAL game:

San Jose
Pacific Northwest
San Diego
Atlanta
and a Second NY


Is Phila/S NJ dead?

The only team the MLS needs is the New York Cosmos. Pepe Pinton needs to stop being so greedy and bring back the Cosmos, the greatest American soccer franchise ever. How can there be professional soccer in the US without the Cosmos? They can play at Shea then move to Randalls Island when the Stadium is renovated.

[Pounder]

I think FIFA has capped all top leagues at 16.

Completely and categorically untrue. Ask England or Italy if they're about to drop from 20. Sepp Blatter has definitely PROPOSED the idea (and he's capable of saying ANYTHING, inclusive of self-contradiction), but in reality FIFA has no enforcement mechanism. FIFA wants to muscle in on club ball to make them more money with internationals, which is one reason why clubs respond with demands that national teams compensate clubs for using their players. One very good piece of advice- never take Blatter's word as gold.

Thats the first Ive heard of Vegas and Im from there (3 yrs removed, but still...super long shot pipe dream). I think Phoenix has a better chance, but then again its all about the stadium and Vegas can have one up in no time and public moneys no problem.

Public money is definitely a problem in Las Vegas. Casinos generally define who will be mayor, and since they spend their own money on arenas, they are steadfast against public competition beyond what Thomas & Mack already provides. The proposal, however, APPEARS to be private financing for, if I understand correctly, a new casino property. That might give it a better chance, but to this point I don't recall Garber acknowledging it. I suspect this is because some of the other casino interests might find ways to scuttle this in the old backrooms and such. Again, a couple different outcomes and this is in like Flynn. BTW, this alone gives Vegas a better shot than Phoenix.

Sharing Red Bull Park? Bad idea... I doubt another investor buys into this unless there's a promise of a new stadium in 2 years and thus Red Bull Park is a temporary solution.

From what I understand, Pepe Pinton's ownership of the Cosmos name is his only tangible asset. I don't think MLS even wants to open the can of worms that entails (most investors want the salary cap UNTIL they start expanding their stadia).

[logoguru]

Garber also wanted another team in Chicago to share the stadium, but he didnt mention that one this time around. His official stance is that he likes derbys....good for him (<- sarcasm).

[bomp]

The only team the MLS needs is the New York Cosmos. Pepe Pinton needs to stop being so greedy and bring back the Cosmos, the greatest American soccer franchise ever. How can there be professional soccer in the US without the Cosmos? They can play at Shea then move to Randalls Island when the Stadium is renovated.

I asked about randalls Island on Big Soccer but no one knew anything. I totally agree this is the way to get it done. I'm hearing that the owners are being talked to by Garber to support a NY team. Red Bull is Jersey.

[bomp]

Garber also wanted another team in Chicago to share the stadium, but he didnt mention that one this time around. His official stance is that he likes derbys....good for him (<- sarcasm).

Derbys? Yeah with those ears he should always wear hats. :p

[bomp]

Completely and categorically untrue. Ask England or Italy if they're about to drop from 20. Sepp Blatter has definitely PROPOSED the idea (and he's capable of saying ANYTHING, inclusive of self-contradiction), but in reality FIFA has no enforcement mechanism. FIFA wants to muscle in on club ball to make them more money with internationals, which is one reason why clubs respond with demands that national teams compensate clubs for using their players. One very good piece of advice- never take Blatter's word as gold.

Thanks for clarifying that. It was told to me by one of those eurosnob experts on Big Soccer. Then my guess is as long as owners pony up the millions and build those stadiums, teams will be added.

[RevolutionX]

How can you have professional soccer in the USA without the most storied franchise in American soccer history. This would be huge for the league.Can you imagine the marketing possibilities alone. To hell with Beckham. Not having the Cosmos is like not having the Yankees in MLB.

[dmbishop]

I asked about randalls Island on Big Soccer but no one knew anything. I totally agree this is the way to get it done. I'm hearing that the owners are being talked to by Garber to support a NY team. Red Bull is Jersey.

Haven't been down to that area in a while, but I believe that Downing Stadium (on Randall's Island) is for all intents and purposes gone. There is a track stadium on the site now, but the center area is not configured for soccer / football and there is only stands on one side of the track. I would think that to remake it into a soccer stadium would be almost as expensive as building a new one from scratch. Also, with only one way on or off the island, traffic for 20,000 fans would be a disaster.

EDIT: I stand partially corrected on that... from Wikipedia:

Icahn Stadium opened in 2005. Located on Randall's Island, in the heart of New York City, it's one of only three Class 1 internationally certified tracks in the United States. The Stadium offers an extremely fast 400-meter Mondo surface running track, flanked by covered spectator seating for 5,000 and features modern locker rooms, showers as well as fitness, exercise and meeting rooms. In addition, a premier FIFA certified soccer field to the north of the Stadium has been built complete with artificial surface, fencing, lighting and bleachers.

But note, they say BLEACHERS not stands. They would still have to put in facilities to hold 20,000+ people.

Dave

[bomp]

Haven't been down to that area in a while, but I believe that Downing Stadium (on Randall's Island) is for all intents and purposes gone. Dave


That's too bad. Thanks for the reply!