PDA

View Full Version : Ft. Worth Flyers to Reno?


flasah
06-13-2007, 12:23 PM
"Flyers on way out of Fort Worth" from Ft. Woth Star-Telegram:

http://www.star-telegram.com/287/story/135183.html

suge night
06-13-2007, 03:01 PM
The city stays on track as it kills off yet another sports team, if you notice when the NASCAR races take place at Tx Motor Speedway they never promote the city. They had the bad taste of sink left in the mouth too ! the only team the city tried to prop up is the Cats baseball team which the city gave money to build the field they play on,but even that has started to fall apart as the fans going to games this season is around 1500:eek: But something else about this story stands out to the NBA backed Flyers;) are leaving town owning money.

USBasket_EricE
06-13-2007, 03:12 PM
All right!!! A team in the gambling state! If they do go to Reno, they should call themselves the "Reno Keno" and their mascot could be a big square with numbers all over it!

skippy
06-13-2007, 04:28 PM
As I recall, some posters gave me a hard time for suggesting this may happen.

Look for another of the Kahn owned teams to move too...

They are averaging less than 400 actual butts in the seats in some towns and most of those are comps.

The NBDL needs to stop pretending it has local ownership and actually get real "controlling interest" local owners.

Other than the CBA teams, the NBDL is a failure.

one way
06-13-2007, 04:34 PM
The CBA saved the NBDL. No lie. Glad someone had the nerve to say it. Also, I hear that Idaho is not happy with the D League and if it were not for a three year agreement, would jump back to the CBA. Bismark is talking that to because of it's on time IBA rivals.

Pounder
06-13-2007, 05:57 PM
I think the statement about Idaho is a half-truth.

They jumped because they thought direct affiliation would be an improvement. It's one thing to have not seen Orem coming, but it's fairly evident that there's no value to the affiliations here.

The other key word in the last paragraph- IMPROVEMENT. They weren't sustaining in the CBA. They don't want rivalries with Montana teams, and Yakima never truly excited anyone. It's not the venue, either, as the af2 Boise Burn are filling seats and taking names... though there are chinks in the Kelly Cup champion hockey team's business armor.

This town isn't for pro basketball... which IMO means it's not a basketball town, since they only go to BSU hoops when they're winning in "exciting" fashion, or the football team is glorified at halftime. If Boise gets out of the D, it's done, period.

USBasket_EricE
06-13-2007, 07:03 PM
I haven't heard a thing about the Wizards wanting to go back to the CBA. And what about their "one time IBA rivals"? The Wizards are the only team from the IBA that still exist! I would rather that they stay in the D-League. The league is growing and right now it has more teams than the CBA.

Chuck the Writer
06-13-2007, 07:10 PM
I haven't heard a thing about the Wizards wanting to go back to the CBA. And what about their "one time IBA rivals"? The Wizards are the only team from the IBA that still exist! I would rather that they stay in the D-League. The league is growing and right now it has more teams than the CBA.

Right, the Wizards have the same lineage from the IBA to the CBA to the D-League, but I believe what the previous poster meant was that the Wizards would have a rivalry with the Minot Skyrockets, based on the IBA's original location in Minot as the Magic City Snowbears.

DakotaWizardsFan
06-14-2007, 03:36 PM
I haven't heard a thing about the Wizards wanting to go back to the CBA. And what about their "one time IBA rivals"? The Wizards are the only team from the IBA that still exist! I would rather that they stay in the D-League. The league is growing and right now it has more teams than the CBA.

I haven't heard a thing about that either. If it were true, I'm sure Eric or I would be one of the first to know.

And I was going to say that the "one time IBA rivals" thing didn't make since, but I guess you could say that the Skyrockets would have a sort of Snowbears/Wizards rivalry going on.

But come on, we're the D-League champs! We're not leaving for a league that has only 8 (?) teams. And the CBA had no call-ups. The D-League is way better no matter what some teams get for attendance.

logoguru
06-14-2007, 04:57 PM
I haven't heard a thing about that either. If it were true, I'm sure Eric or I would be one of the first to know.

And I was going to say that the "one time IBA rivals" thing didn't make since, but I guess you could say that the Skyrockets would have a sort of Snowbears/Wizards rivalry going on.

But come on, we're the D-League champs! We're not leaving for a league that has only 8 (?) teams. And the CBA had no call-ups. The D-League is way better no matter what some teams get for attendance.

What is better? The Dleague has suffocated and stripped the CBA. The CBA is in as much rebuilding as the Dleague is building.

PS Reno NOOOOOOOO!
________
Wildprincess cam (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/Wildprincess)

skippy
06-14-2007, 06:22 PM
Uh, yeah Reno is a bad, bad, idea as well.

The drinking of David Stern's Kool-Aide regarding how great the NBDL "will be in a few years", is dying down.

Reality will set in, eventually.

The NBDL needs to stop with it's own brilliant ideas for city placement and just cherry pick the teams that succeed in other leagues...

Not that Arkansas worked out well at all. : )


I'm not sure which league is the best at this point on an operational level, but we all know which one is worst.

Pounder
06-14-2007, 07:36 PM
Just in case someone's wondering why Reno is a bad idea, there's two major reasons:

Minor league history in Reno is UGLY.

University of Nevada basketball, the last few years, is anything but ugly. Heck, they traveled a couple thousand people to Seattle to watch the Wolfpack play Gonzaga, which meant they mostly skipped out on the football team's bowl game in Boise against "the U" the next night.

I don't even think the D-League does well with the cherrypicking idea. There's two options: build off the Dakotas, or think "reserve teams in the big team's markets" while uprooting the current system.

bectond
06-14-2007, 07:43 PM
The Bakersfield Jam just hired one of Indie baseballs top General Managers, i'm going to watch that situation closely. If they succeed more D-League owners will turn to successful baseball GMs to run their franchises. I believe the D-League is just about to turn the corner. I'm not sure if Reno is the best place for teenagers looking to develop their games, but only time will tell.

Fort Worth may be rejoining the league under new ownership, maybe the flyers failed due to poor planning and the organizational structure.

As for the CBA, it was the best minor league two years ago, but now it onlt has one top notch franchise - Yakima. It could rise again but the league seems to be making the mistake of attempting to attract whales (A gambling term for players with a lot of cash to spend) instead of solid investment groups of 10-15 people. If one guy decides to get out then the franchise is toast because their are not that many buyers in some of the smaller markets.
Until they change their philosophy on clustering and the type of investors they go after the CBA will continue to be one step away from extinction.

The D-League is still on course, within 10 years it should surpass the NCAA as the premier developmental league of North America.

skippy
06-14-2007, 08:03 PM
The hiring of baseball GM's to fix these teams is no new thing either.
Who's the new sucker?

Many, many attempts at this before.

Tom Kayser, President of the texas league was a CBA GM.
There are several other instances of heavy, heavy hitters in baseball failing in the CBA...which people tend to forget was also affiliated.

Basketball is not baseball. People do not have warm fuzzy feelings in their heart at a minor league basketball game like they do when they go to their alma mater's basketball game, or a minor league baseball game.

The D-League will NEVER overtake the NCAA's, that is a misguided viewpoint, filled with the same arrogance that causes the D-league to put team in over-saturated, burned out markets, with colleges that have already cornered the market.

Until the point in time when the top players do not make an exodus for overseas half way through the season, the D-League is nothing as far as development goes.

Go to a D-league game, and look at the disinterest of the players, coaches, cheerleaders, and fans, and tell me again about how it will overtake the NCAA format. I've seen enough of it already in multiple cities. Won't watch it again.

Ken, Steelheads fan
06-15-2007, 12:01 AM
...Fort Worth may be rejoining the league under new ownership, maybe the flyers failed due to poor planning and the organizational structure...


...Or maybe the Flyers failed because the people of Fort Worth could care less about the D-League.

Lacrosse and Ultimate fighting are the hot new minor leagues (and the NBADL has nothing to do with Lacrosse and Ultimate fighting). Yes, expect the D-League to stay on its current course.

bectond
06-15-2007, 11:03 AM
10 years from now the NBA will look totally different, a whole new European division will be created and the NBA will adopt the European philosophy of training elite athletes in NBA academies. The elite players will go from the academies to the D-League and then to the NBA.
The NCAA will not be in the loop. Currently, NCAA coaches are more used car salesmen then developmental coaches. It is not in the NBAs best interest to continue the current arrangement. 100 new NBA jobs will be created due to European expansion, if American players are to full those positions or even retain the current jobs. They will have to receive the same top notch training the Europeans are receiving.

In short, more qualified players will be needed, and the current system will not support the global NBAs human resource needs. Unless you want to see an NBA full of foreigners the league has to act now and ensure that the top players are prepared to adjust to any style of play, living in foreign nations, speaking in foreign tongues, etc... Currently American youths are not prepared to travel the world and live alone in a place like Moscow. The development of players will have to be both in basketball and life skills as well. Currently, itís nothing more than a meat market.

Minor League Man
06-15-2007, 11:11 AM
I guess in 10 years the Suns could end up playing the London Kings in the NBA Finals then?

Pounder
06-15-2007, 01:07 PM
I was in the middle of this big long post again, trying to back up bectond while recognizing the deficiencies in what he was saying. Then I stopped. In all likelihood, you won't read it.

What do we want?

I want, first off, a national team that wins championships again. I also want an actual world championship tournament involving clubs, and I want my Portland Trail Blazers to be right there.

With the current system in America, USA Basketball is set up to fail. We only think of winning national championships and CALLING them world championships. Now that certain countries actually give a damn, USA will not win much. The NBA champion is probably the best team in the world, including a Virgin Islander, two Argentines, and a Frenchmen in their top 6 players... but how would an actual "World Club Cup" turn out? I suspect the NBA will dominate for now, but as European teams develop players and fan bases, even the NBA will begin to fall behind.

What do you want? I figure this is a bedrock question to ask, because I read statements from some people here still swimming in "American Exceptionalism" when it has become apparent to me that this is more a myth by the hour.

bectond
06-15-2007, 02:45 PM
Order the course of the last 20 years due to expansion close to 100 new NBA player jobs have been created. However, of those 100, 80 jobs have done to foreign born players. I suspect that the European clubs will hire foreign born players as well at an 80% clip. The Toronto Raptors roster this past year was 40% foreign. I would also surmise that more than a few less desirable free agent markets and small market teams would be in favor of signing low wage earning foreign born players as a way of competing with big market talent laden clubs. Sacramento, Oklahoma City, Salt Lake City, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Minnesota, Memphis, San Antonio and Boston may all eventually go the same route as the Raptors choose, which is hire a well-connected European Asst. G.M., and comprise their rosters with 50% of foreigners born players.
I also believe that many large market clubs may decide that foreign born bench warmers are less expensive, easier to control and less of a hassle off of the court than many American ball players.
They many also choose to fill the bottom 30% of their rosters with foreigners.

That leaves:
5 European clubs with 3 Americans each and 11 foreigners
10 Small or unattractive free agent markets with 7 Americans and 7 foreigners
and 21 Larger or attractive free agent markets with 10 Americans and 4 foreigners.

-Or-
295 Americans and 210 Foreigners

However, American players will have to continue to be the better players just to keep 60% of the jobs, due to the fact that the large market clubs will pay the highest salaries to the best players.

P.S.
Currently 340 American Players have jobs in the NBA as do 80 foreigners, I suspect almost 50 American job slots will be lost. That means that 50 players that today would be NBA players will be D-League players in the future (If NBA expansion into Euproe leads to the reduction of euroleague salaries). Add to that the 50 plus academy grads that will enter the D-League each season instead of doing to college and the D-Leagues future seems just fine to me.

skippy
06-15-2007, 05:37 PM
Bectond,
Do you have any articles/links to back up what you are saying is the plan?

It just seems to me to be a continuation of the NBA's arrogance to think they could displace Euroleague teams, so to me it seems plausible that they might actually think this is intelligent to do.

However, I 100% disagree with this idea, as it may do more to damage the NBA then improve it.


Thus far, each attempt by the NBA to make inroads into unknown territory in America has been met with a slap in the nose.

Pounder
06-15-2007, 07:32 PM
Before we head back to "the plan" (which I doubt will happen, because Euro sports authorities will not weigh in positively), think about what you want. What you expect. So on.

Do you watch just for entertainment?

Strip away bectond's conjecture about the NBA structure for a moment, and dwell on what he just said about where the player pool is going. That I believe wholeheartedly. That is pointing to college basketball's IRRELEVANCE. Of course, if you're content following your school, that's money not likely going to the NBA anyway... and maybe you're happy with that.

I do not believe a downgraded NBA helps minor pro ball whatsoever.

(I do believe I can head off on a million tangents from this subject, so I cut off here.)

skippy
06-15-2007, 08:25 PM
Why do I watch basketball?

I watch it because it is game that I find exciting. I find the college game more entertaining at this point in time than the NBA or D-league.

That was not true in the past, as I would have much rather watched the NBA growing up.

I also agree that the player pool is starting to tilt towards foreigners.

Until such time that the balance completely tips and all the superstars are coming from outside the USA, I don't think that college will become "irrelevant".

I guess what I expect that I am not getting is some humility and the ability to bond with communities on a grass roots level vs. the current "We're the NBA and we're here for your money approach", that burned out the south and will burn out the southwest.

I do continue to follow my high school and local colleges, and I've never had to pay for a D-league ticket, so I've seen quite a few games.

My complaints really have nothing to do with the game itself, but rather with the operation of the league itself.

Have you been to a D-league game Pounder and Bectond? What were your impressions?

And also, thanks for discussing this {slight} difference of opinion in a respectful manor vs. the antics of the ABA board.

Dan K
06-17-2007, 12:10 AM
With the NBDL possibly moving to Reno, I guess this will officially kill the CBA's attempt for the Reno market, namely the Northern Nevada Blackjacks.

LandRoverUT60
06-17-2007, 03:16 AM
...and go to smaller/suburban markets that don't have division I basketball programs; maybe the D-League will work out then.

logoguru
06-17-2007, 03:56 PM
If soccer in the US hasnt gone to the "academy" format yet (yes, they house and train about 20 players in Florida and SD, but thats far from each team), then the NBA wont any time in the foreseeable future. Its a lot of money for what basically they get for free now through the NCAA.

This needs a little more explaining: in the 90s US soccers biggest problem was the NCAA. They were turning out medicore players that played in a style that was good for winning NCAA titles and not condusive to international play. I dont know if this has changed, but even MLS isn't the solution: see World Cup 2006.
________
Volcano vaporizers (http://volcanovaporizer.net/)

bectond
06-18-2007, 09:10 AM
Bectond,
Do you have any articles/links to back up what you are saying is the plan?

It just seems to me to be a continuation of the NBA's arrogance to think they could displace Euroleague teams, so to me it seems plausible that they might actually think this is intelligent to do.

However, I 100% disagree with this idea, as it may do more to damage the NBA then improve it.
.

I have been reading about the global plan for about five years now, I don't have any articles but Stern was on Bill Simmons podcast last week talking about this very issue. Three of the top European teams will be annexed and two new teams will be joining the NBA so it is not like the NBA is displacing the Euro-league. The Euro-league will continue but without it's top three clubs.
I based the "plan" on evaluating the NBA's small market clubs many of which are losing money, the NBA is a copycat league and once Toronto decided to go European and had so much success doing so, i'm guessing the rest of the depressed clubs will follow suit. If the large market teams decide to fill their 10-14 man roster spots with foreigners than the look of the NBA will surely change. If not, the number of American players will stay the same and the number of Foreigners will increase.



I find the college game more entertaining at this point in time than the NBA or D-league.
That was not true in the past, as I would have much rather watched the NBA growing up.
I also agree that the player pool is starting to tilt towards foreigners.
Until such time that the balance completely tips and all the superstars are coming from outside the USA, I don't think that college will become "irrelevant".
.

I find most college coaches to be complete hacks. they run a methodical perimeter oriented "rush the off balance three pointer as the 35 second shot clock expires offense." I hate any basketball game where the action is labored.

The NBA game of the past was more entertaining because the coaches were better, they knew that the NBA is a players league. That is why Don Nelson can take the Warriors to the playoffs and Mike Montgomery led them to the lottery. Nelson understands that he has a horse in Davis and he'll just ride the hell out of him until the other coach adjust, Montgomery is new school, he wanted to control Davis, which is just plain dumb. Nelson's system allows Davis the freedom to use his talents without restriction and the Warriors provided fans with a great series vs. the Mav's. Montgomery, by the way, was one of those college hack jobs that run methodical offenses.

The college game will not become "irrelevant", the best players will simply not go to college. People will still follow the NCAA tourney but if you’re a race horse you should be on a race track(NBA) and not on a petting farm(NCAA). Why should any big go to college? He won't get the ball due to the style of play college coaches employ (lots of back door cuts and off-balance 3s) and the officials call too many ticky tac fouls.



I guess what I expect that I am not getting is some humility and the ability to bond with communities on a grass roots level vs. the current "We're the NBA and we're here for your money approach", that burned out the south and will burn out the southwest. .

I watch the D-League only on NBA TV, but I do watch all the games and I feel that the talent level is extremely high.

Pounder
06-18-2007, 02:06 PM
MLS has implemented a youth plan. For now, the plan includes an option for kids to retain college eligibility, though there are many kids who have been bypassing that option for a while. The plan, BTW, allows the team to keep a certain number of kids that have gone through the system without making them go through the draft.

BTW- partial implementation in 2006, more this year, and I think this thing will be evolving. It won't help USA in 2010, frankly. It takes time... and especially in American futbol's case, more coaches and resources.

Back to hoops.

I live in Boise. I've seen the Stampede.

I know a lot of college fans who point to, of all schools, Gonzaga. They run sets, they look cool moving the ball around... and then you still got Adam Morrison taking a 3 or trying to drive the lane with the shot clock running down in 2006, and Rick Raivio taking crazed long bombs off a dribble headed away from the basket this year.

College, as often as not, has coaches demanding that players be automatons. Run the offense, don't deviate until there's 4 seconds on the shot clock. Problem is that Duke is successful doing that, and that's just not good for developing players or the sport.

The advantage of the European system is that the players will learn their club's system, and the kids will play against (and perhaps with) the pros for "training up." You actually get the passing game seen in college, BUT there's more encouragement to deviate as conditions demand.

I realize that there are other factors involved in the US scene. Even bectond wants to remind me that fans make college something other than irrelevant. My definition of "irrelevant" had nothing to do with where the money goes "now," it has to do with who develops talent. As things evolve, the money will have to go in a different direction, or the whole shebang will dry up. The simple truth... while March Madness kind of sits in place, fewer schools are improving their ticket sales.