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View Full Version : CBL Could lose 3 before 2004


Djay
12-03-2003, 06:34 PM
Coastal Bend (Robstown) Aviators have been in the paper with financial disputes with ownership and city. Rio Whitewings are seeking local ownership or they'll be pulled for 2004. And per today's Valley Star article, they go and the Alexandria Aces will follow. Aces have been offering $20 shares to the public to keep local ownership in town and let Aces play in 2004. Deadline set for Dec. 15.

Djay
12-10-2003, 02:23 PM
Sounding like the Coastal Bend (Robstown) Aviators will be saved for 2004 and the CBL will have an 8 team schedule. Aces & Whitewings are trading, releasing and waiving players like a liquidation sale before a league imposed dispersal draft.

Djay
01-02-2004, 11:35 AM
Coastal Bend (Robstown ) Aviators will play in 2004. Local government officials and team owner Horn Chen came to a "gentleman's agreement" with compromises that made all happy. Per Jan. 1 Caller Times article the county gets space at the stadium, overdue bills like lease fees paid and Chen gets he overall bill reduced substantially. CBL will field 8 in 2004. East: Ft. Worth, Jackson, Springfield/Ozark & Shreveport. West: San Angelo, Amarillo, Edinburg and Robstown

Djay
01-27-2004, 11:09 AM
New reports out of Jackson, MISS in the Clarion Ledger about AA League teams showing interest in a new entertainment/sports complex built in Pearl (near Jackson). The complex centerpiece is a new Bass Pro Shop expected to open in early 2005.

Jackson's management team responded to media by saying they wouldn't expect the Senators to remain should AA move into the area. Quoted in today's Claron Ledger 1/27/04.
http://www.clarionledger.com/news/0401/27/s03.html

KB
02-18-2004, 11:37 PM
I hear the FW Cats are in $$$ trouble. They've seemed so strong the last couple of years. Anyone have info?

khalldog
02-20-2004, 01:54 PM
And where exactly did you "hear" this information?

KB
03-13-2004, 01:13 AM
Sorry for the delayed response. I've been traveling and have not had time to check the posts. It was just a rumor I heard from a buddy close to the organization is all. That's why I posed the question. So.... Any info???

Rob4FWCats
04-16-2004, 09:59 PM
Sorry for the delayed response. I've been traveling and have not had time to check the posts. It was just a rumor I heard from a buddy close to the organization is all. That's why I posed the question. So.... Any info???

Well that's what happens when people listen to "rumors" from their so-called "buddy close to the organization." That's crap. For crying out loud, the Cats led the league with 3700 plus fans a game last season and they've sold a record number of full season and mini-season ticket packages this spring, as well as a the best pre-game single ticket sales the team has ever had in it's four year history. They're hosting the league All Star game this year, and LaGrave Field has more changes again this year. Several games have already sold out of reserved seating for Cats' games this year. Doesn't sound like a franchise in trouble..there's a boatload of affiliated minor league teams across the country who'd love to have the attendance numbers the Cats get.

The Fort Worth franchise is arguably the most solid one in the CBL and will be as long as they decide to stay in the league. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Fort Worth gets an affiliated minor league franchise some time in the future (can you say Texas League?)

You should quit listening to what your so called source "close" to the Cats' organization is telling you. Just come on out to Fort Worth for a game this summer.

Bonhomme
05-27-2004, 03:41 AM
The Fort Worth franchise is arguably the most solid one in the CBL and will be as long as they decide to stay in the league. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Fort Worth gets an affiliated minor league franchise some time in the future (can you say Texas League?)

And guess what happens when affiliated baseball comes to town?

The best players are sent to a higher caliber just when they would be needed for the push to the championship. Fans find it hard to identify with a team that's always moving players up or down.

And worst, the manager's decisions are often based on giving the best prospects some experience instead of what he knows he should do to win a game. Orders are sent down from the major league team "Play this guy cause we gave him a big bonus!"!

Have you noticed that most independent leagues operating under a salary cap (Northern, Northeast and Central) are pretty well balanced? You get a good game on most nights.

The caliber of managers, coaches and front offices is getting better every year.

We have had both AA and independent ball in my town and the independent team draws a lot more fans (over 3,000 average, 4 years running) Maybe the folks are telling us something!|
__________________________
Bonhomme

Rob4FWCats
05-28-2004, 09:22 AM
And guess what happens when affiliated baseball comes to town?

The best players are sent to a higher caliber just when they would be needed for the push to the championship. Fans find it hard to identify with a team that's always moving players up or down.

And worst, the manager's decisions are often based on giving the best prospects some experience instead of what he knows he should do to win a game. Orders are sent down from the major league team "Play this guy cause we gave him a big bonus!"!

Have you noticed that most independent leagues operating under a salary cap (Northern, Northeast and Central) are pretty well balanced? You get a good game on most nights.


Your point is well taken, yet I still don't agree. Sure, what you say may be true about the parent club pulling puppet strings to control who and who doesn't play to some degree, but I don't see where that or where shuffling players up and down from the team affects fan turnout in affiliated leagues. Tell that to the people in Round Rock, TX who have had the Astros' AA affiliate there for several years now. Good or bad team, the fans still turn out in droves there, regardless of who is on the roster.

I think it has a lot more to do with the logistics of where a team is located and the local economy and how many people live in the area and can make it to games, things like that. Like most places, attendance will drop some if the team isn't doing well, but your solid franchises will always have a good solid core group of fans that come out year in and year out, regardless of how the team is doing and whoever is playing for them.

To me, the main difference is the quality of play and players in affiliated vs. independent league baseball. I'm a huge minor league baseball fan, regardless of what league it is. I'd love to see guys play that I can tell others later on I saw them play when they first came up to the minors.

And of course, you're going to see more future major leaguers in affiliated ball..those guys are your blue chip high draft picks out of highschool and college who are getting their first shot at making the bigs. Independent leagues give the guy who is looking for a second chance to make it. It's for the guy who got overlooked by the scouts and never got a chance in organized ball, to show the world "hey, they told you I could play this game!" Two different philosophies, but still good baseball!

Bonhomme
05-28-2004, 01:05 PM
To me, the main difference is the quality of play and players in affiliated vs. independent league baseball. I'm a huge minor league baseball fan, regardless of what league it is. I'd love to see guys play that I can tell others later on I saw them play when they first came up to the minors.
You want to see future major league players.

I like to "manage from the stands" so to speak and I have to know what the players on both teams can do. which ain't easy if there are too many changes from one matchup to the next!

We are simply looking for different things!

As to the caliber of players, most independent teams have 1 or 2 guys of AAA level, about 3 or 4 of AA level and 8 to 10 of A level.

An example: Joey Eischen was a dominant pitcher in the Northern league in early 1999, signed with Montreal in july of that year and was a pretty good reliever after that with the following ERAs:
2000: AAA 3.64 in 59 innings
2001: AAA 2.24 in 52 in.
2001: Majors 4.85 in 29 in.
2002: Majors 1.34 in 53 in. (59 games) the best ERA in the majors that year
2003: Majors 3.06 in 53 in. (70 games)

BerkshireFan
05-30-2004, 03:06 PM
I'd love to see guys play that I can tell others later on I saw them play when they first came up to the minors.

Oh, you're that in-law at the wedding boring everyone to death with, "I saw Greg Maddux way back when." Just kidding. However, you're correct that indy leagues don't have an advantage over affiliateds in the pursuit of higher attendance. In fact, due to an ingrained prejudice in far too many sportswriters against any team not affiliated it is the affiliateds that probably have the edge.

But the same fans that don't appreciate the virtues of indy baseball also have no memory that the young kid on the mound back in 1986 was the same guy they're watching on the television now. They couldn't tell you Greg Maddux's name the day after the Double-A game nevermind 18 years later.

Independent leagues give the guy who is looking for a second chance to make it. It's for the guy who got overlooked by the scouts and never got a chance in organized ball, to show the world "hey, they told you I could play this game!" Two different philosophies, but still good baseball!

Yes, that's one purpose indy baseball serves, but it's primary goal is to provide quality entertainment to the communities that host it. For fans of the game, the choice is indy baseball hands down. For those that are fans of name-dropping, affiliated is the way to go. For the casual fans, either works fine.

Djay
06-03-2004, 01:07 PM
Having attended the levels from Majors, AA and Indy in Texas -- we've chosen to support the Indy league. And for that matter the new Collegiate Wooden bat league in the metro area similar to the Cape Cod league. There seems to be a fresh spirit and hunger at the college and Indy level that disappears between affiliated and majors. The movies like Bull Durham and books like Chris Coste's, I think speak to it best. There is a "feeling", if you will, you get at the Indy and collegiate level -- it's a spirit in the air undescribed. I know there is the Awe of Wrigley, or mystique of the Green Monster and ghost legends roaming Yankee Stadium. But one of our local Indy guys says "This is a kids game, you have to play it with the heart if a kid. If it ain't fun anymore, it's time to quit. I just enjoy playing the game, so I have fun while I'm out there."

That's why my family and friends choose to support our Indy league over say, AA affiliates nearby or drive to Arlington. There is an appreciation for the game at this level. The skill level may be questioned sometimes by some; but I've seen many a webgem at my local Indy park. I've seen guys throwing 93 mph fastballs and then follow with 72 mph sliders. I've seen great agressive base running and even saw a FIRST in life -- a guy stold home on a LHP. And when the kids can run the bases after a game, then walk up behind that night's hero and get a hug with a personal autograph. I'd rather support THAT team.

Rob4FWCats
06-04-2004, 10:57 PM
I'd love to see guys play that I can tell others later on I saw them play when they first came up to the minors.

Oh, you're that in-law at the wedding boring everyone to death with, "I saw Greg Maddux way back when." Just kidding. However, you're correct that indy leagues don't have an advantage over affiliateds in the pursuit of higher attendance. In fact, due to an ingrained prejudice in far too many sportswriters against any team not affiliated it is the affiliateds that probably have the edge.

But the same fans that don't appreciate the virtues of indy baseball also have no memory that the young kid on the mound back in 1986 was the same guy they're watching on the television now. They couldn't tell you Greg Maddux's name the day after the Double-A game nevermind 18 years later.

Independent leagues give the guy who is looking for a second chance to make it. It's for the guy who got overlooked by the scouts and never got a chance in organized ball, to show the world "hey, they told you I could play this game!" Two different philosophies, but still good baseball!

Yes, that's one purpose indy baseball serves, but it's primary goal is to provide quality entertainment to the communities that host it. For fans of the game, the choice is indy baseball hands down. For those that are fans of name-dropping, affiliated is the way to go. For the casual fans, either works fine.


I think you guys are missing my point. Yes, I like to see guys play that make the majors so I can say I saw them when they were starting out. But that can happen in the Indies, just not as much. I'm not knocking the independent leagues at all. I love them just as much as any affiliated minor league. To repeat, it's two different philosophies at work. The indy teams don't have the luxury of a parent club supporting them and paying players's salaries..they have to work harder to get more fans to keep teams going, while the affiliated teams for the most part can take a loss because the parent club takes the financial hit. I just enjoy either kind of baseball. I say if you're a fan of the game, then it shouldn't matter if it's independent or affiliated baseball, or wood bat collegiate league. It's baseball! All those guys bust their tails to put out a good product because they want to make it to the Show someday.

I've been to Indy league, A, AA, AAA, Collegiate league, and major league games all over the west and midwest during my lifetime and I'll take anything over the Majors. I will continue to go to CBL games. I refuse to support the Frisco AA Rangers' affiliate in the area for personal reasons, and don't care whether I go to a Rangers or Astros or any major league game ever again. And I'll be checking out the new Texas Collegiate League that starts next week.

Take me out to the BALLGAME! Take me out to the PARK!!