With NIFL sinking, Cavs should find a new home

[GoCavs1]

This sounds promising

http://www.casperstartribune.com/articles/2007/06/11/sports/pro/11ce454fb49b4938872572f50075d416.txt#blogcomments

[Dubs]

Yeah, that's a nice article.

[AllAces]

It's a great article, but the Laytons are a bit unpredictable.

I hope you guys get to see UIF next year. I think you will be completely impressed with the improvement of quality.

[OutlawFan#5]

What is the big deal with Wyoming this year, everyone is all about them. They have been in this league forever and have never snift the championship game. Now this year since there aren't any teams, they are suppose to be some great team. To top it off they have combined to teams together (Rapid and Casper) to beat these expansion teams. Teams that don't even know the rules. Oh wait, that's right an expansion team did beat them, San Diego.
In the past does anyone remember Casper ever getting any message board talk.

[GoCavs1]

What is the big deal with Wyoming this year, everyone is all about them. They have been in this league forever and have never snift the championship game. Now this year since there aren't any teams, they are suppose to be some great team. To top it off they have combined to teams together (Rapid and Casper) to beat these expansion teams. Teams that don't even know the rules. Oh wait, that's right an expansion team did beat them, San Diego.
In the past does anyone remember Casper ever getting any message board talk.

First off Casper was in the inagural Championship against Mississippi. Second Every team has bad seasons. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be supported. The Organization is a solid one and the folks in Casper love their football. We don't like a zillion to 6 blowouts either. We like strong competition even if we lose. And Yea San Diego got us in San Diego. I'm sure Billings would fall to them as well being they are what 5-4?

[Dubs]

In the past does anyone remember Casper ever getting any message board talk.

I definitely remember talking to some of the Cav's "Rock Stars" a few years back, both on the NIFL board & on Jerry's site. :p

[OutlawFan#5]

OK, you got me on them being there way back in the 1900's, and they used to joke about them in the past on the message boards about how weak they used to be,.... but SD beating us is very funny. Sorry we won't lose to an expansion team. We're too talented for that. And our QB can move around he's not 250 lbs. Maybe that's your problem your QB has not and won't win the big game when it counts.

[gonzo13]

What is the big deal with Wyoming this year, everyone is all about them. They have been in this league forever and have never snift the championship game. Now this year since there aren't any teams, they are suppose to be some great team. To top it off they have combined to teams together (Rapid and Casper) to beat these expansion teams. Teams that don't even know the rules. Oh wait, that's right an expansion team did beat them, San Diego.
In the past does anyone remember Casper ever getting any message board talk.


I don't think it's the team's win/loss record that everybody's high on. It's the fact that, as you said, "they have been in this league forever" which means they are a stable team.

Sometimes in this game, stability is more important even than wins and losses.

[GoCavs1]

OK, you got me on them being there way back in the 1900's, and they used to joke about them in the past on the message boards about how weak they used to be,.... but SD beating them is very funny. Sorry we won't lose to an expansion team. We're too talented for that. And our QB can move around he's not 250 lbs. Maybe that's your problem your QB has not and won't win the big game when it counts.

I agree The Cav's were weak. They have made steps to change that. Unfortunately we don't really know where they stand because of the crappy games. And that Championship was in the 2000's not 1900's lol. Now If they lose to one of these teams from Utah. I will be upset... Strands a good QB at least he is seasoned. The QB last year Frank Borba. Now that was a different story..

[50 Yard Fan]

OK, you got me on them being there way back in the 1900's, and they used to joke about them in the past on the message boards about how weak they used to be,.... but SD beating us is very funny. Sorry we won't lose to an expansion team. We're too talented for that. And our QB can move around he's not 250 lbs. Maybe that's your problem your QB has not and won't win the big game when it counts.

Didn't Billings lose the first game of this season to the expansion Colorado Ice!!!???!!!

[GoCavs1]

I think I saw that too..No wait.. I did see that by 1 point!

[Grand Champion Dog]

Just to remind you, the Outlaws are on a 5 game win streak and appear to be peaking at the right time . Expect them to repeat as champs again, wont be as easy as winning the NIFL but trust me they will, and as far as an Expansion team beating them in game 1, REMEMBER its not how you start, but how you finish. And Casper should have a few Rummage sales, wash a few cars, sell spaghetti plates, raise some money and join our league so we can have a punching bag within a 4 hour drive

[Grand Champion Dog]

I dont think that if they had a NIFL all star team that they could beat the Billings Outlaws.

[Cav69]

Grand Dog your underwear are to tight. I notice alot of former Cavalry players are playing for you this year!! That definately has got to help the Outlaws.. Next year you will have 2 southern neighbors that will kick the hell out of you. :D

[Go Wyo!]

That's right. Billings had to go to Wyoming to recruit players and their Head Coach, Heron O'Neal. Our players along with the ole' Outlaws players makes a heckuva team, Salter, Bonner, Flores. So please stop whining about Casper and Rapid City. What is the common element, oh yeah, Casper.....
Rummage sale, what are you talking about....Wyoming is one of the only teams that has consistantly paid their players, paid their bills around Casper and made a difference in their community. Just today I saw a TV ad about their golf tournament that benefits Special Olympics with Matt Strand and a Special Olympic athlete on the commercial. Speaking of Matt, he might be 250 lbs, but he is a husband, father of a little girl and works for a local bank. I would rather have someone like him who might not be able to run very well than some of the other QBs that are out there.

[gridirontime]

Wow everybody is out to get the Cavs! Nice! Again if they are this good why haven't they the Cavs moved into a high level of competion? Maybe AFL2? At least something along those lines. I've never even heard of The NIFL before this season or the UFIL or anything along these lines, and after this season I now know why. :eek:

[AllAces]

Actually, what you are seeing here is the beginning of a fresh rivalry between these two teams that I hope will get to be settled on the field next season.

[preeths]

Here's the latest out of Casper:
http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2007/06/13/sports/sportstop_story/33d026bbb5099351872572f80083ca17.txt

Doesn't sound like a deal with UIF is done yet, if it's even in the works. To me, it sounds as if UIF is really reaching out to the Cavs ownership. Will they respond?

[Dubs]

That is great for the Cavs. I cannot imagine a better fit for them.

[exit322]

Yeah, Paul, that's what I read, too. And that's exactly what I've been wanting the UIF to do! Be proactive!

[preeths]

But is the Cavalry organization receptive?

[roozy]

But is the Cavalry organization receptive?

They had certainly make a serious consideration of this offer.

The fans here in Casper are not going to put up with this crap for another season. Attendance is down because we all know it's going to be another blowout. If the NIFL is the Cavalry's league next season, I know that I will have to reconsider my season ticket purchase.

Also, we will probably be a Beaumont level team next year if we stay NIFL, because we will certainly lose our coach and the talent we have.

[preeths]

I just wonder where else the Cavs would look. There are a limited number of viable markets with decent arenas in the area. That's going to hurt any other indoor league that tries to set up in the area. Unless teams play in secondary facilities (horse arenas, etc.), I can't see another league providing the regional rivalries UIF does, not to mention the relatively inexpensive and short road trips.

And yet...I don't get the feeling from the Casper article that the two groups are talking. The UIF is obviously interested and is extending their hand.

[AllAces]

UIF is an obviously good choice. But the Laytons will seek other options to ensure they make a good decision (unlike this year).

I think that the money involved, in not just joining, but also maintaining membership in the UIF is a huge detraction for them. The are going to look for a cheaper option so that they can keep the budget the way it is instead of channeling money that they use to put on a good show toward being a member of the club. They strongly feel that a football game is more about the entire show, for three hours, than just the play on the field. I agree and that is a big part of why they are so stable and successful.

I've said it before, but look for them to research the possibility of getting a new league together with new teams that have owners in the Colorado area (not affiliated with the NIFL) and others close. That may not pan out, but that option gives them a lot of control with rules and league operations as well as dues and money. They will look into it at least.

Remember, they are used to being given the impression that their opinion matters because of their long history in this league. That makes them feel important. In the UIF, they will be in the back seat. If they create a league, they will continue to have a strong influence on policies.

I hope they come to an agreement with the UIF. I think that is the smart choice. Hopefully, they will come to the same conclusion.

[phydeaux72]

If forming a new league is one of the options they're looking into, then they better be more than just "looking into it" at this stage. At the very least, they better be in the preliminary stages of forming the league at this point. And they should also have some additional franchises who are on board and ready to move forward with it. You can't just toss a new league together in the off season. It needs to be at least a year in the making. Otherwise, you'll end up right back where you started.

Besides, starting a new league isn't cheap. A venture such as this takes time and money, not to mention the time and resources that you have to take away from your franchise. That considered, the UIF might actually be the more economical approach.

You also have to consider that the UIF is going to have a deadline for Wyoming to make their decision. And it would really suck to find out that this proposed new league isn't going to happen at the point where you've past that deadline. Then what are you gonna do?

But I'm sure the Laytons are smarter than that, at least we hope.

[Pounder]

I would similarly hope the Laytons figure this out. Of course, they could be looking at...

Everett, where the Herald hardly makes a point of announcing the attendance numbers anymore, when they used to be better than the Hawks' statistician at getting that info out. (NOTE: The two games for which numbers are published indicate a 2,500 avg)

Fresno, not drawing well in af2. (2,376)

Bakersfield, ditto. (3,149 with a game missing)

All of which leads to the pertinent question: is an af2 division with Boise, Kennewick, Stockton, and Spokane viable? Heck, Stockton is the weak link in that chain (they may draw more than Tri-Cities, but the Fever sell 74% of their seats). If the Tri can be convinced to leave, one wonders how long Boise will want those travel issues, even if the Burn are selling more than 100% of their seats. Do that, and Spokane may be the big prize.

[OneBetter]

I would similarly hope the Laytons figure this out. Of course, they could be looking at...

Everett, where the Herald hardly makes a point of announcing the attendance numbers anymore, when they used to be better than the Hawks' statistician at getting that info out. (NOTE: The two games for which numbers are published indicate a 2,500 avg)

Fresno, not drawing well in af2. (2,376)

Bakersfield, ditto. (3,149 with a game missing)

All of which leads to the pertinent question: is an af2 division with Boise, Kennewick, Stockton, and Spokane viable? Heck, Stockton is the weak link in that chain (they may draw more than Tri-Cities, but the Fever sell 74% of their seats). If the Tri can be convinced to leave, one wonders how long Boise will want those travel issues, even if the Burn are selling more than 100% of their seats. Do that, and Spokane may be the big prize.

Bakersfield and Fresno will not support anything less than AF2. You try to put them in some 3rd tier league and both teams will die a VERY quick death.

[AllAces]

This is not a new idea that they are coming up with. This was something they were talking about just after the season started.

They are smart enough to not announce what they are thinking because the media will make it big news. if that is not the route they take, they look unstable. I am sure this is something that they have been thinking about a long time.

also, the UIF deal actually gets better as time goes. The UIF sees the financial benefit of having a team in Casper but will start negotiating height and come down as time goes - with a deadline.

I would also think that another, cheaper league would be considered. Does anyone know what those may be? Keep in mind that they aren't looking to be in the best (thus most expensive) league. They just want to play all the scheduled games and make them competitive. The UIF may not be the only route to make that happen happen for them. But, like I said before, I think it IS the best option for them.

[The Abyss]

They're not going to be excessive, but there are going to be some dues. There's not one credible league in the country in any sport that doesn't charge dues. But with that check, we're going to get you officials, we're going to get you a travel budget and a schedule where we haven't missed a game in three years

Crow's pretty much says it's going to be a small fee so i don't understand how looking into an af2 or own league could be a cheaper option? Their are no other leagues besides the apfl but thats semi-pro mostly some people do get paid , but they would be above their level of play anyway.

[Pounder]

Bakersfield and Fresno will not support anything less than AF2. You try to put them in some 3rd tier league and both teams will die a VERY quick death.

I'm not going to dispute that... but sometimes egos get in the way of common sense. It's not what owners in the Big Valley might think so much as it is people outside thinking they can do better. Of course, that's how you get to the modern day NIFL...

[AllAces]

They're not going to be excessive, but there are going to be some dues. There's not one credible league in the country in any sport that doesn't charge dues. But with that check, we're going to get you officials, we're going to get you a travel budget and a schedule where we haven't missed a game in three years

Crow's pretty much says it's going to be a small fee so i don't understand how looking into an af2 or own league could be a cheaper option? Their are no other leagues besides the apfl but thats semi-pro mostly some people do get paid , but they would be above their level of play anyway.

"Small fee" and "not excessive" are all relative terms based on the person saying them. What is reasonable to Crow may be excessive to the Laytons.

Casper never has and never will seek to join AF2. As for starting their own league, they may be able to do that for much cheaper if they keep the travel local. The league could just be made up of a board of directors of team owners. If all the teams are financially responsible for their own - well, everything, then you don't have to pay a bunch of money to "the league."

I think starting their own league is a pipe dream because they will not be able to put together 5 or 6 teams in their region to play with.

[Cav69]

Franchise fees be damned!! If the Cavalry don't get their poop in a group and show that they are seriously interested in being a part of a stable league they are going to lose their fan base. No fan support equals no income. I cannot believe they would even consider starting their own league. Everyone I know is tired of dancing the hokey pokey wondering where the Cavs will land. Billings is a huge draw, huge rivalry, big buck$!!!!! The Colorado Ice have the potential to become just as big, if not a bigger rivalry than Billings, more big buck$. The teams of the UIF are all within easy travel distance (as opposed to SD and Beaumont), thus saving travel cost. Wyomings fans deserve better than this BS we have been getting...

We crave quality football, quality opponents, rivalry, tradition, FUN!!!!!! Not another league experiment!!

[The Abyss]

Franchise fees be damned!! If the Cavalry don't get their poop in a group and show that they are seriously interested in being a part of a stable league they are going to lose their fan base. No fan support equals no income. I cannot believe they would even consider starting their own league. Everyone I know is tired of dancing the hokey pokey wondering where the Cavs will land. Billings is a huge draw, huge rivalry, big buck$!!!!! The Colorado Ice have the potential to become just as big, if not a bigger rivalry than Billings, more big buck$. The teams of the UIF are all within easy travel distance (as opposed to SD and Beaumont), thus saving travel cost. Wyomings fans deserve better than this BS we have been getting...

We crave quality football, quality opponents, rivalry, tradition, FUN!!!!!! Not another league experiment!!


DITTO, now convince your owners this;)

[preeths]

My gut feeling is that the Cavs are not looking at UIF. I don't think the ladawgs.com site was a mistake, nor was the UIF commissioner's attempt to reach out to the Cavalry. I believe the Laytons are looking at the AIFA. Whether they've already committed or not, that's open to question.

[roozy]

My gut feeling is that the Cavs are not looking at UIF. I don't think the ladawgs.com site was a mistake, nor was the UIF commissioner's attempt to reach out to the Cavalry. I believe the Laytons are looking at the AIFA. Whether they've already committed or not, that's open to question.

Why would you even think that the AIFA is a viable move for the Cavs? There's not a team west of the Mississippi River in that league. So unless there is a 4 or 5 team addition going to happen, why would that move be an option?

[tony-o]

Why would you even think that the AIFA is a viable move for the Cavs? There's not a team west of the Mississippi River in that league. So unless there is a 4 or 5 team addition going to happen, why would that move be an option?

You pretty much just answered your own question. It isn't a viable option if they are the only team out west, but it sounds like they may not be the only team out west if they do join.

[Cav69]

:D Great, maybe we could get Denver, Peublo, Castle Rock and Colorado Springs to make the big leap with us!!! LOL

[Cav69]

"The Wyoming Cavalry has been very fortunate over the years to have a fan and volunteer base that is second to none.
The dedication and support from the community is wonderful and heartfelt.
We don't say it enough...THANK YOU"

The above quote is from the Cavs website.

The Laytons are Wyoming folks. I know that they care about the people of Wyoming. Mike helps run the Wyoming Special Olympics. Argeri is the President of the Casper College Alumni Board. I have been told she is a Wyoming Native. While I have never met them face to face, I do believe they are good people.

This being said, the UIF is the only League that makes sense for the Cavalry to call home for the following reasons:

Wyoming has less than 500,000 people in the entire state, because of our small population we have very close ties with or neighboring states. It is fun for the average fan to compete head to head with our neighbors. We used to travel to Billings and watch the Cavs, we made friends, had dinner and drinks and truly enjoyed ourselves. Billings fans also made the trip to Casper and did the same. Teams being close will increase ticket sales because you are drawing from the region, not just the community. Sponsors will also pay attention to this fact.

The UIF is a quality League. It is well run, has quality teams with parity and no major baggage. Perhaps there is still some hard feelings with Outlaws owner Dan Austin and the Laytons about last year. However such pettiness should not stand in the way of business. Lets take it too them on the field, not in the office.

Lastly, the Cavs are losing their fans. The games are terrible, total annihalation of teams we have never even heard of. Sure we all like the hamster ball races and such, but we pay to see football. There is not enough $5.00 beer in the state to sit thru 3 hours of carnage and boredom. The once rowdy Events Center is quickly turning into a tomb.

If the Laytons really want to thank their people, just my opinion, they should join the UIF.

[nksports]

I'm getting the impression that the Wyoming owners may not have the cash to move up. They may be able to afford NIFL, but not the jump to UIF.
That is going to limit their options.
I don't see the AIFA as a viable option at all at this point. A massive NIFL-type expansion like this season's would field similar results. Besides, I don't see too many Colorado venues that would rent to another half-a$$ed scheme.
The IFL is a bit of a reach. The APFL would fit their budget, but unless a Grand Island-Kearney team came along with them, that would be a stretch
The best option might be to find another investor or two, break open the wallets and bite the bullet for UIF.
But that's just my $0.02.

[The Abyss]

"The Wyoming Cavalry has been very fortunate over the years to have a fan and volunteer base that is second to none.
The dedication and support from the community is wonderful and heartfelt.
We don't say it enough...THANK YOU"

The above quote is from the Cavs website.

The Laytons are Wyoming folks. I know that they care about the people of Wyoming. Mike helps run the Wyoming Special Olympics. Argeri is the President of the Casper College Alumni Board. I have been told she is a Wyoming Native. While I have never met them face to face, I do believe they are good people.

This being said, the UIF is the only League that makes sense for the Cavalry to call home for the following reasons:

Wyoming has less than 500,000 people in the entire state, because of our small population we have very close ties with or neighboring states. It is fun for the average fan to compete head to head with our neighbors. We used to travel to Billings and watch the Cavs, we made friends, had dinner and drinks and truly enjoyed ourselves. Billings fans also made the trip to Casper and did the same. Teams being close will increase ticket sales because you are drawing from the region, not just the community. Sponsors will also pay attention to this fact.

The UIF is a quality League. It is well run, has quality teams with parity and no major baggage. Perhaps there is still some hard feelings with Outlaws owner Dan Austin and the Laytons about last year. However such pettiness should not stand in the way of business. Lets take it too them on the field, not in the office.

Lastly, the Cavs are losing their fans. The games are terrible, total annihalation of teams we have never even heard of. Sure we all like the hamster ball races and such, but we pay to see football. There is not enough $5.00 beer in the state to sit thru 3 hours of carnage and boredom. The once rowdy Events Center is quickly turning into a tomb.

If the Laytons really want to thank their people, just my opinion, they should join the UIF.


Have you the fans emailed them your concerns or told them at games? If not maybe that and a newspaper article would do the trick? Just a thought:)