New England Surge interested in joining af2

[Fran]

Surge future could be af2

Rich GarvEn
rgarven@telegram.com






WORCESTER— The New England Surge are on the move, and possibly in more ways than one.

With the regular season winding down, the white-hot Surge have positioned themselves to earn a berth in the Continental Indoor Football League playoffs. The expansion team is playing like a group of seasoned pros, having won five straight and six of seven to improve to 6-3.

The Surge are a game out of first place in the Atlantic Division with three to play, the first of which is tonight at Lehigh Valley. The Outlawz are 4-4, including a 53-25 loss at Worcester on May 12, but are 3-1 at home.


It’s been a rather remarkable turnaround, but not an unexpected one to owner-coach Roy Lucas Jr., a noted — if somewhat impatient — optimist.

“One of the things we decided was to be the best team we can be,” Lucas said. “We show up prepared to play at the highest level. The people deserve to see a very good Surge football team.”

The 2,600 fans who showed up at the DCU Center on Saturday saw one very good football team and one very bad football team as the Surge walloped the Steubenville Stampede, 86-0. Who filled what role should be rather apparent.

Afterward, it was revealed Steubenville had rounded up 13 willing, although not necessarily able, bodies to make the trip east. That there were even Stampede players to be, well, stampeded is rather amazing.

Two weeks ago, the Herald Star in Steubenville, a city of 20,000 that sits on the Ohio River across from Pennsylvania, ran a short article with the headline, “Steubenville Stampede plans to hold car wash to raise funds.” If you’re like me, you’re thinking “OK, pro football team bonds with fans by hosting community fund-raiser.”

Um, not quite.

The Stampede were scheduled to wash cars (and trucks, too!) for eight hours at the Sears Service Center at the Fort Steuben Mall for their own benefit. Actually, survival might be a more appropriate word.

“The players, coaches and dance team will be washing cars to raise money so we can continue to play our away games,” general manager Martin Mauiri told the Herald Star.

It apparently didn’t rain the day of the car wash because the Stampede did indeed make it to Worcester. And a good time was had by all.

The Surge played the role of the Globetrotters, both entertaining and winning. The Stampede played the part of the fumbling Washington Generals. The fans celebrated more than Kool & the Gang.

It was a good time indeed, but not very good for the reputation of the league or the Surge.

But Lucas said he received only one call from a fan concerned about what had transpired, that being that only one professional team played in a game that was supposed to involve two.

It seems the other 2,599 were pleased with seeing the home side score points like Larry Bird in ’86 and saw no need to request a refund.

“The fans are coming for the experience,” Lucas said. “That part (no refund seekers) kind of shocked me. It goes to show what kind of fans we have — that they’re loyal and they support us.”

The fact that Steubenville is a franchise teetering on the edge of extinction would seem to have nothing to do with Worcester and the Surge. Fact is, Steubenville has everything to do with Worcester and the Surge. And Lucas knows it.

“I wouldn’t be in the position I’m in (as owner) if I didn’t think what goes on in Steubenville doesn’t affect what goes on in Worcester,” Lucas said. “I’m one of 14 owners in the league and you’re only as strong as your weakest link.”

Rumors have been circulating for a couple of weeks that Lucas is interested in being one of the owners in a different league — one that’s stronger and more in line with the way the Surge are being run.

Can you say arenafootball2?

“I don’t want to lose focus on how we are and what we are,” Lucas said Wednesday. “But you’re right, we could very nicely fit into an af2 situation, and I think we could compete at that level.”

Lucas, perhaps remembering he currently belongs to another league, politely declined to comment any further on the subject.

However, it only makes sense for Lucas at least to look into af2 and vice versa. The af2 is better known and better run than the CIFL and Lucas appears to be doing — or at least trying to do — things in a first-class way.

But the af2 is also a costlier league in terms of payroll and travel. An article from 2005 in “Forbes Magazine” noted potential af2 owners had to show at least $5 million net worth and another $1 million in liquid assets. Annual operating budgets run between $650,000 and $1 million.

The price of doing business has presumably not gotten any cheaper. And the Surge’s finances have been called into question after the team bused to — of all places — Steubenville rather than spend $8,000 on a charter flight.

“Our financial situation is great,” responded Lucas, whose team is averaging more than 2,500 or so fans for home games he has said he needs to break even on in Year 1.

The Surge have been moving up the standings as they take aim at a championship. Might the New Englanders also have a different league in their sights as well?

[ChampionOfSteel]

“I wouldn’t be in the position I’m in (as owner) if I didn’t think what goes on in Steubenville doesn’t affect what goes on in Worcester,” Lucas said. “I’m one of 14 owners in the league and you’re only as strong as your weakest link.”

Rumors have been circulating for a couple of weeks that Lucas is interested in being one of the owners in a different league — one that’s stronger and more in line with the way the Surge are being run.

Former and current NIFL executives, are you listening? What about the CIFL guys in charge? Pay attention.

But the af2 is also a costlier league in terms of payroll and travel. An article from 2005 in “Forbes Magazine” noted potential af2 owners had to show at least $5 million net worth and another $1 million in liquid assets. Annual operating budgets run between $650,000 and $1 million.

The price of doing business has presumably not gotten any cheaper. And the Surge’s finances have been called into question after the team bused to — of all places — Steubenville rather than spend $8,000 on a charter flight.

“Our financial situation is great,” responded Lucas, whose team is averaging more than 2,500 or so fans for home games he has said he needs to break even on in Year 1.

Definite numbers as requirements for ownership. Nothing less than AF2 finances or you don't bother having a team...and I mean that sincerely.

[exit322]

That's where you've misspoke. Jerry Kurz has proven a few times now that dedicated people to run a team are all that's needed TO START.

Why?

The AF2 has investors that can make the liquidity requirements, and as such they can take good indoor football people and give them the background cash needed to make it work (see Fever, Tri Cities).

Don't be shocked to see both New England and Rochester going AF2 if they are truly interested.

[WorcShark]

Don't be shocked to see both New England and Rochester going AF2 if they are truly interested.

Agreed. @ things can happen in NE (Worcester), Either Lucas gets backing from others to move up, or look for SVSE (owners of the San Jose and Worcester Sharks) to step in.

Both Lucas and SVSE are professional, the field/equipment the Surge has is already top notch, a top notch building for AF2, got a natural rivalry with Manchester (and also Albany to some extent), maybe bring Portland ME into the league for another.

[exit322]

I know for a fact that the AHL teams have mulled the idea of bringing indoor or arena football to give them a few more dates, so this would not be a stretch to even add maybe Providence and Springfield.

[logoguru]

I know for a fact that the AHL teams have mulled the idea of bringing indoor or arena football to give them a few more dates, so this would not be a stretch to even add maybe Providence and Springfield.

Dont forget that Hartford is lookin too

[Dogs-Glads-Xtreme]

I just don't see the common sense in moving the team to the AF2 or maybe I am such a fan of the CIFL that I would not want to lose a close rival?

The Surge have not shown that they can average the 3-4k that would most likely be needed if they played in the AF2. They also have more rivals if they stay in the CIFL too.

[WorcShark]

I just don't see the common sense in moving the team to the AF2 or maybe I am such a fan of the CIFL that I would not want to lose a close rival?

The Surge have not shown that they can average the 3-4k that would most likely be needed if they played in the AF2. They also have more rivals if they stay in the CIFL too.

AF2 is better run than CIFL. The Surge are averaging about 2600 because of the league they are in. Nobody around here has heard of the league, and the ones that have from the papers haven't got a favorable view. The best way to move up is to build momentum. The Surge have an exciting team and are looking to get to the finals. A super team gets interest. In '94 we had the Mass Marauders and averaged 7500. A few years ago we had a preseason game of teams nobody cared about that had around 3300. If the move was made today, rivals would be Manchester and Albany. Closer than any CIFL rival. Add Portland, maybe Hartford and there's a couple more rivals. From the sounds of it, Providence and Springfield aren't good football buildings. No idea on Bridgeport, but it could be as well.

[ChampionOfSteel]

That's where you've misspoke. Jerry Kurz has proven a few times now that dedicated people to run a team are all that's needed TO START.

Why?

The AF2 has investors that can make the liquidity requirements, and as such they can take good indoor football people and give them the background cash needed to make it work (see Fever, Tri Cities).

Don't be shocked to see both New England and Rochester going AF2 if they are truly interested.

Exit322, your comments are the reason goof balls continue to start teams without any financing. You also put but a dumb slant on the issue.

AF2 took the Fever in because that team had suitable funding to make it thru an entire AF2 season from start to finish with a team recognition name that eliminated the need to create new team name artwork (whoopee). The source of that financing is irrelevant whether it came from AF2 oriented investors or someone else as long as it came from ethical sources (not drug dealers) and was used to get the Fever thru the 2007 season comfortably.

I'm glad Tri-Cities got the rare paid support in their first few home games and beyond to stay solvent in the NIFL without dipping into their emergency funds (that never existed for them?), but that had nothing to do with this issue -- having teams play from start to finish without folding.

Can't believe you made that comment. I'm thinkin' it was made to appease your CIFL friends. Tri-Cities' situation in the NIFL had nothing to do with their required financing to be in place for the 2007 AF2 schedule.

Whoopee. Something good came from the Tri-Cities Fever NIFL situation. An easy/proven market was found for the AF2 to grab. Let's continue to promote underfinanced teams/leagues so this can (eventually) happen again...NOT!

[Jamie]

Can't believe you made that comment. I'm thinkin' it was made to appease your CIFL friends.

LOL!

Not sure he has any of those left...

[exit322]

Good reading comprehension job, I see.

The Fever had the funding because the AF2 brought extra parties in to provide that funding. Schillinger himself didn't have the funding for the UIF.

The AF2 has investors willing to go into teams that have good operations. Simple as that! The Fever wouldn't be an AF2 team if they didn't. It's the same with most of the Texas teams (though they lack the good operations part) having one central investor (AFL Austin owner). That's what they're doing, and if these CIFL teams go AF2, that's what they'll also be doing.

And the source of the funding is hardly irrelevant. The AF2 has the funding sources, and they used that to bring the Fever to the AF2! If they didn't have the funding sources ready to invest in teams, Schillinger had no chance of having the money to go AF2.

THE SAME IS TRUE FOR THE SURGE AND RAIDERS. If the AF2 now doesn't have people ready to invest in teams that have proven operations (a'la Fever and Copperheads), those two teams will not be in the AF2. Period. If the AF2 does have people (and all signs point to them still having a number of investors, including some AFL teams, to make this kind of move), and the Surge/Raiders still show interest in going AF2, then you will probably see that move made for 2008.

Now read my previous post in total before you try to use one line and run with it. The proven track record with having a successful operation is the START LINE. The AF2 won't take the Raiders or Surge as-is. But they also won't take the Rumble no matter how many people invest in that joke. If there are people willing to jump on board, and the AF2 likely has them, then we'll see more indoor teams making the step up.

If they can't get the $10M/$2M (I think) requirements met, then those teams won't be going to the AF2. This isn't the CoSIFL or whatever you'd call it where so long as people promise to not say "um" and use the NIFL game system, they could do as they wish.

[Matty86]

Lucas should call up Bob Kraft if he needs money.. We have a Grogan in Worcester playing for the Surge.. maybe the Pats could kick a few bucks to help start up, you know they have it. :eek:

[ChampionOfSteel]

If they can't get the $10M/$2M (I think) requirements met, then those teams won't be going to the AF2. This isn't the CoSIFL or whatever you'd call it where so long as people promise to not say "um" and use the NIFL game system, they could do as they wish.

CoSIFL has a great ring to it.

My fundamental requirements would be in order to get a team ...

1) A certain cash liquidity ratio and level for the primary owner to be placed in escrow. Each candidate owner will be evaluated like a bond rating.

2) Owner would have to be interested in a six man game played on a turf covered basketball court of which the particulars would be ironed out during the offseason during a series of barn storm scrimmages. If the six man game ends up being extremely sensitive to talent differences between teams playing each other, then either the game itself will be refined and/or there will be a talent formula cap to eliminate Port Huron-like super teams.

3) Media folks for each team would go thru a boot camp like I did when it comes to public speaking. I will personally teach the class and structure the pass/fail test. It will be required for each person to say periodically "Oh my!" just like Mick Hubert. Florida State grads need not apply.

4) Venue must submit in writing the terms of facility usage to me the commissioner BEFORE the schedule is made out.

5) Logos and artwork become the property of the league and cannot be used elsewhere if the team leaves the league.

6) Forfeits will not occur because there will be an annual emergency fund that each team MUST pay into each year to handle unforeseen events. The difference not used will be paid out at the end of the year to each team wishing to leave the league.

7) Each team MUST have internet TV available for all of their home games whereby the link to the video occurs only from the league website (not the individual team). A pay-per-view charge of $5 per live download may be charged to the credit card of the out-of-town fan. Games will be blacked out within a 60 mile IP address radius from the site of the game. A call center will be setup to field phone calls from those folks experiencing computer problems getting the feed.

8 ) Seth MacFarlane will be a league consultant. What Seth says, goes. That includes me too.

9) No junior high/high school aged cheerleaders will exist. Only b--bie bar women with scantly clad outfits will be permitted.

10) Pizza MUST be on the menu at the concession stand unlike the Miami Valley Silverbacks had this past year...unless I totally missed that?

11) There will be a patented foam wall system that will allow for players to be shoved over the wall safely during an out of bounds hit. That will add to the enjoyment of the game but not harm the players.

12) League/team message boards will be forbidden. No one is allowed to respond to the general public on message boards. Responding to the general public will occur from designated folks gifted in tact and humor. I will personally fake my identity to trip up employees, coaches, and players into responding when they should not be on the website in the first place. Players will be fined heavily just like they do in the NFL for responding to the general public outside of permitted channels.

13) There will be a weekly 1 hour internet TV league show. It will be very visual and must be entertaining and not necessarily informative for its own sake. Humor shall be a must.

In addition, the primary league goal that MUST be satisfied and will never be compromised in the offseason when teams are cemented into the schedule:

*-Every team that begins the season must complete the season without moving the team to another city and without replacement players.

[Minor League Man]

The only rule I don't agree with is #5. I think it should be property of the individual teams. I mean, how many folks woulda wanted the Billings Outlaws or River City Rage to have changed their logos? And don't get me started with when the Tri-Cities Fever had changed the logo before.

[ChampionOfSteel]

The only rule I don't agree with is #5. I think it should be property of the individual teams. I mean, how many folks woulda wanted the Billings Outlaws or River City Rage to have changed their logos? And don't get me started with when the Tri-Cities Fever had changed the logo before.

If the six man game system pans out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, you won't want to leave the league. Those teams you mentioned come into the league with their nicknames/logos but will lose them if they leave.

The key here is getting the game system perfect when the worst possible team plays the best possible team, without having a massacre. I've been to a bunch of kids NFL 5-against-5 flag football games and those game systems are entertaining as hell. The better team keeps driving and gets into the red zone but doesn't score. A poor team won't get massacred on the scoreboard, and yet one key play gets them back into the game.

[phydeaux72]

Welcome to the PIFL, part 2.

Another dreamer with big ideas.

All talk and no walk.

CoS, are you sure your name isn't Chris Simpson?

:rolleyes:

[ChampionOfSteel]

Welcome to the PIFL, part 2.

Another dreamer with big ideas.

All talk and no walk.

CoS, are you sure your name isn't Chris Simpson?

:rolleyes:

Is everything ok in the IFL? Everyone getting paid on time? Sounds like you are prepping yourself for a bombshell and taking sides with the CIFL guys for the sake of misery loves company?

Not sure what you mean by all talk and no walk.

[phydeaux72]

Uhh, yeah ... everything is OK (not perfect, have you) in the IFL and everyone is getting paid on time. However, if you have any evidence to the contrary, then by all means, bring it to the table. I'm not taking sides with the CIFL, or anyone else for that matter. You just seem to think that you know all the ins & outs of the business, with your failsafe plan for running a league. So, if you know so much and believe that your plan is so perfect, then start your own league or get involved with an existing one and get your plan implemented.

Otherwise ... yeah, all talk and no walk.

[RevolutionX]

The AFL2 should look at Port Huron. They have kicked the snot out of every team in the GLIFL/CIFL for two years. Rochester and N.E, I dont know? Financially, maybe. If anyone could make the jump talent wise and be competetive, its Port Huron, or what ever they will be called since they might be moving.

[ChampionOfSteel]

Uhh, yeah ... everything is OK (not perfect, have you) in the IFL and everyone is getting paid on time. However, if you have any evidence to the contrary, then by all means, bring it to the table. I'm not taking sides with the CIFL, or anyone else for that matter. You just seem to think that you know all the ins & outs of the business, with your failsafe plan for running a league. So, if you know so much and believe that your plan is so perfect, then start your own league or get involved with an existing one and get your plan implemented.

Otherwise ... yeah, all talk and no walk.

You offerin'?

[phydeaux72]

You offerin'?

I don't own a league. So, that's a moot point. But I'm also not telling anyone else how they should run theirs.

[ChampionOfSteel]

I don't own a league. So, that's a moot point.

Few people own an entire league. My bad. I thought you owned the Katy Ruff Riders.

But I'm also not telling anyone else how they should run theirs.

Why not?

Why are there college/university sports management programs if you aren't allowed to tell other people how to run their league? There's consultants in the rest of the business world that do exactly that -- recommend on what should be done. Why not here?

[preeths]

Few people own an entire league. My bad. I thought you owned the Katy Ruff Riders.



Why not?

Why are there college/university sports management programs if you aren't allowed to tell other people how to run their league? There's consultants in the rest of the business world that do exactly that -- recommend on what should be done. Why not here?

Difference is, they know what they're talking about.

[Sykotyk]

Difference is, they know what they're talking about.

Best. Quote. Ever.

Sykotyk

[ChampionOfSteel]

Best. Quote. Ever.

Sykotyk

Followed up by an implied agreement with CoS in another post on what needs to be done to get rid of WFL activity, year after year in indoor football leagues:

The AF2 also has the luxury of operating as a single-entity. When Roanoke went broke, they stopped sending money to the league, who kept redirecting it to the players, etc. The AF2 hefty fees were used to keep the team 'afloat' just long enough for them to make it through the season before axing them.

Same thing's going on in Fort Wayne right now. And who knows where else. The AF2 is pretty secretive about it. Just remember, in the AF2, the good teams get hurt by having their dues go to cover bad teams the AF2 has to bandage.

Sykotyk

I guess I'm glad to see you know what needs to be done, but I'm puzzled why you would support people who continue the WFL way?

I want to say hypocrite but that would be the wrong word. Screwball would be accurate, or better yet the word psychotic. That's definitely a creative choice for your user name with the same pronunciation (Sykotyk=psychotic).

[Jamie]

That's definitely a creative choice for your user name with the same pronunciation (Sykotyk=psychotic).

Oooooooh....

Is that what it means?

Wow! <hits forehead>

Why didn't I think of that?

Watch out, Sy. I think he has figured out your secret identity.

[Sykotyk]

It's okay. It's nice the loon is running the asylum, now.

CoS, the thing you fail to understand is overall cost, and the number of people in the world with the desire, or idiocy to try what the AF2 does.

Nobody wins with the AF2. Fans overpay tickets, players get paid peanuts, and owners shell out more than they can usually make and eventually sell off, or keep bringing in more 'investors'.

If the system operated like the AF2, you'd have the Af2, and that is it. And as a side note, I am not a fan of the AF2 and see how it's system has destroyed the sport (akin to the AFL) by pricing itself above and beyond most fans willingness to pay for it.

Sykotyk