UFL Cities

[feverfresh]

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Ar eas), the 21 of the top 50 U.S. markets without NFL teams are:

2 - L.A.
14 - Inland Empire (Fontana/Riverside/San Bernardino, CA)
23 - Portland, OR
26 - Sacramento
27 - Orlando
29 - San Antonio
30 - San Jose
31 - Las Vegas
32 - Columbus, OH
34 - Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA
35 - Rhode Island
37 - Austin, TX
38 - Milwaukee
41 - Memphis
42 - Louisville, KY
43 - Richmond, VA
44 - Hartford, CT
45 - Oklahoma City
47 - Birmingham, AL
48 - Salt Lake City
49 - Rochester, NY (which has 1.03 Million residents)

FYI:
153 - Green Bay, WI

I'd say based on this list, the entire West coast is underserved by the NFL. Given the strategy of trying to force a merger with the NFL, and given the freedom from necessity for big TV money (so no NY, no Chicago, no SF) along with competition from the NFL in the fall, I'd expect the cities to be something like this:

WEST
Las Vegas (Sam Boyd Stadium)
Los Angeles (Home Depot Center)
Sacramento (Hornet Stadium)
Salt Lake City (Rice-Eccles Stadium)

EAST
México, D.F. (Estadio Olímpico)
Oklahoma (Boone Pickens Stadium or Bricktown Park w/ bleachers)
Orlando (Bright House Networks Stadium)
San Antonio (Alamodome)

[logoguru]

MLS isnt retarded. Theres no way LA would play at Home Depot. The reason to build SSS was to avoid football lines and turf and torn up grass.
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[jwalters]

I've already said that I wanted the league to try new markets. El Paso, Little Rock, Jackson(MS), Columbia(SC), Syracuse, etc.

Aside from this the league really should court the CFL into the fold. The Canadian clubs would keep their history, most of their rules, and most importantly their players. If the leagues don't merge the UFL will raid the CFL for the best players. They have already stated that their salary cap will be higher than the CFL's but if the CFL clubs merge with the UFL then the teams could keep their players and all they would have to do is increase their cap some more.

Add to this the fact that the CFL would finally get the financial benefits of a good sized cable contract in the U.S. I can't see why this isn't being pushed for.

Remember the name is the "United" Football League.

[SignGuyDino]

The CFL has a 90+ year history that just can't be ignored.

Granted, there may be some great advantages, but there is a level of pride that would be difficult to overcome.

I'm not saying don't do it, but we need to do what we can to convince Cuban to build a solid SPRING league first.

[jwalters]

I did say that the CFL teams would keep their histories some of which go back to the 1860's. The Grey Cup would also be honored. Teams would be split into Northern and Southern divisions 8 in Canada and 8 in America. The championship would alternate betweens American and Canadian cities.

The schedule is really not that different. The UFL is planning an August debut and the CFL begins in late June. The American teams would get a good chunk of their schedule done before the College and NFL season ever begins. It is simply the sanest model.

Anyone who has ever really watched the CFL can tell that there is almost no difference in ability. The CFL players are usually about 2 or 3 inches shorter and 30 or 40 pounds lighter. I like this because the players are often actually faster than their NFL counterparts. If they don't merge the UFL will pick up all the best CFL players and the CFL will be left with Arena League style players. Which I'm sorry to say are just not as good on average as the CFL players.

[SignGuyDino]

Canadians will be understandably reluctant because their previous attempt to go to America, except maybe Baltimore, failed badly and almost killed the CFL.

Also, I agree if there was a merger they should keep the Grey Cup, they could consider changing the name of the CFL to "Continental Football League" or something (since we're talking about 3 countries with Mexico City as a potential team).

Maybe we could go with "house rules," let the Canucks keep the 20 yard end zone, but generally have uniform rules.

I ultimately think it's an ego thing and Cuban wants a whole new venture.

[Shootmaster_44]

I find it funny when non-Canadians propose merging the CFL with an American league. I can tell you for a fact that the NFL folding would happen first. The owners of the CFL teams would never go for it. Vince McMahon attempted to buy the CFl in 2000 and the CFL said no, so he started the XFL. Same thing would happen here. The CFL will never give up the Canadian game, so any discussion to that are moot. Besides most fans in Canada see the NFL as the only competition to the CFL. Its our top league and nobody will ever see it die. If Mark Cuban wants a piece of the CFL, he can buy the Ottawa expansion franchise and run that.

As for the UFL raiding the CFL's top players, it won't happen. The CFL has measures in place from the XFL fiasco to prevent players from crossing the border. Since the CFL season will be two months in when the UFL kicks off, I highly doubt anyone would break their contract to jump to the league. Plus, the CFL threatened a lawsuit this past off-season against the AFL over a Bomber trying to jump while still under contract. The two leagues smoothed that over, but I am certain the second a CFL player attempts to jump an injunction will be filed in US court to prevent that player from jumping. As well, a number of stars are Canadian and play in the CFL because it is Canadian. I'm not sure how the UFL would sell Jason Clermont receiver from the University of Regina as one of its stars to the American public. I truly believe the talent pool of the UFL will be similar to that of the XFL. Basically, they will have a few NFL cast-offs, a few retired CFL players and a host of other players who the CFL/AFL have no interest in.

As well the nature of a CFL contract is that signs a contract is only under contract for one season (except Ricky Williams), all CFL deals are one and an option year. Due this option year the UFL will not be able to cherrypick from the CFL, as many of the stars of the league signed deals this off-season. Thus meaning they are under contract for both this season and next season.

Lastly, the CFL and NFL have a partnership in Canada. Due to this arrangement, the NFL would back the CFL in any fight against the UFL. So basically with the weight of the NFL behind them, the UFL will not be able to simply come and "raid" the CFL. Nor would it let the CFL merge with a rival league. The CFL has too much at stake to reneg on this deal anyhow. If it wasn't for the NFL in 1995, the CFL would be dead. It was the NFL that helped bail out the league after the disasterous US expansion.

As an aside, I doubt the Canadian Parliament would allow the CFL to merge with the UFL anyhow. In 1974, Toronto was granted an expansion team in the WFL. Almost immediately, the Parliament drew up the Canadian Football Act which stated that no rival leagues could establish franchises in Canada. The Toronto Northmen moved to Memphis before the Act became law, so Parliament dropped it from the Order Paper. Since they were worried about one franchise killing the CFL, I can't see how it would allow the entire league to be swallowed up by some upstart league that doesn't even play the Canadian game.

Its a nice pipedream for Americans to think one day the CFL and all it lucrative markets would become part of a US football league, but the reality of the matter is it will never, ever happen. The only way it would happen is if the NFL decided to merge with the CFL and even then Parliament may step in and say they can't do so.

The CFL is number one in Canada, the Grey Cup outdraws the Super Bowl on TV in Canada and CFL games do better than NFL games. It may be hard to imagine, but the CFL is not like any of the other leagues on OSC, rather in Canada it is the 5th Major League (along with the NBA, MLB, NFL and NHL). In a recent poll of Canadian sports fans, the CFL placed a close second behind the NHL as their favorite professional sports league. The UFL wouldn't stand a chance in Canada, even if they merged with the CFL. To Canadians this would be akin to the NHL folding or the Expos moving. Suffice to say the league would no longer exist and neither would its fanbase.

[Pounder]

MLS isnt retarded. Theres no way LA would play at Home Depot. The reason to build SSS was to avoid football lines and turf and torn up grass.

If that were true, the X-Games wouldn't have the SuperCross events at Home Depot, there would be very few concerts there, the Pros v Joes thing (Spike TV IIRC) wouldn't be there, high school championship gridball games wouldn't be played there, et cetera.

The stadium allows the MLS owner to pocket the money from all those ventures. THAT is why the SSS are being built.

Now, with Beckham as an investment, the turf might get better care and some of the above events might go elsewhere. I also tend to think that this league is thinking larger stadia anyway, and LA does have some underutilized current facilities you may have heard of.

[Sykotyk]

The CIF-SS PAC-5, and all three CIF state championships were held at HDC. Sure, they don't like it, but anything that'd make Anschutz more money with the HDC will be done.

Sykotyk

[logoguru]

Wow! I had NO idea they did that much to those fields. Poor fields. What are they....retarded or something!?! I knew about the concerts, but Motocross!?! Oh my god!

The colisium needs an upgrade and the rose bowl is in use. I cant think of any other, maybe Anaheim.
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[SignGuyDino]

Oh, they get greatly rebuked for the terrible condition of their grass field all the time, especially late in the season.

They had the USA rugby 7's until this year.

Unless it's at the Coliseum, forget L.A.

But if it IS there, heck, go with TWO teams there.

[jwalters]

Canadians really need to get over their anti-American sentiment. It's okay politically if that is where you fall but it is crazy for a sports league.

1. I never said the CFL would sell out. This would not be like the XFL fiasco. I completely agree with the CFL for not going that route.

2. You have a really good quality, high budget league trying to survive in a market 1/10 the size of the U.S. . The league needs additional income. Every year it becomes harder and harder for a CFL team to survive despite the fact attendance is going up.

3. Montreal's owner wants U.S. expansion. So I'm not saying anything he is not already saying.

4. The 1974 Canadian Football Act is no longer applicable. Look at the fact that the Toronto Phantoms played. No acts of Parliament occured then.

Try to be open minded before you say "I'm Canadian and I won't play football with Americans." That is just rediculous. How would you Canadians like it if the NHL decided to not operate in Canada anymore. For that matter you tell me a league of higher value than the AHL could survive in Canada alone without t.v. money, without major corporate money, and without access to U.S. markets. I'm sorry it won't work. I also love the fact that Canadians don't drive any American cars. Yeah right. This is a business venture similar to cars or any other business. Get over your sacred arrogance.

[logoguru]

The C(ontinental)FL had a franchise in Toronto and maybe another city, but that was in the 60s(?).

Baltimore and Sacramento were VERY successful franchises in the CFL, the only reason Sacto moved was because Sac State wouldnt expand the stadiums field to fit CFL standards nor for more seats....more seats? If they were failing, why more seats? Also they tried to get the city to fit part of the bill for a new stadium, but all the politics were going towards possibly getting the Raiders at the time and not a "minor league" team (OKC syndrome). I think if the owner were more patient then Sacto would STILL be in the CFL and possibly Montreal still in Baltimore (and maybe the Browns dont move).

The slow and steady wins the race argument:

The fly by night owners are what did the US markets in. Shreveport and Las Vegas are the infamous of these....but with the updates and expansion to Sam Boyd and the success of the Outlaws its pretty obvious LV could survive in a league.....as long as it isnt arena!!!! The CFL hit the Valley EARLY in its perpetual growth, since then (1996) I wouldnt be surprised if the population hasnt doubled!
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[jwalters]

Think about it the only major change that I'm proposing is that the field be reduced five yards on each side of the center field stripe. I really believe that the reason why so many communities were not willing to cooperate with CFLUSA teams is because they were percieved as foreign. This would eliminate this problem. Does AC Milan refuse to play teams from England? No. The CFL has no where else to go but the U.S. . The stadium deal in Halifax is dead. No body who has the cash is willing to place a team in Ottawa or Quebec City. My old business professor used to say if you are not growning you are dying. Times have changed in the years since CFLUSA.

1. The CFL has a small regional U.S. broadcast agreement. It isn't worth anything but it does provide access. A few games were shown on ESPN way back when but not this many.

2.Ottawa has failed twice so that market is beyond burned.

3.The long talked about expansion into the Maritimes has garnered almost no support because the stadium won't be built.

4. This would be a merger not a sell out. I'm even willing to propose two commissioners. One in America and one in Canada. See that's called a compromise. If the CFL knew what one was they might not have failed in the U.S. expansion.

5. It is going to have to happen eventually. Accept it. It might as well be done while working with financial geniusses instead of being bought out or trying to beg and scrape and do it yourselves.

[winy926]

Like i stated on uflnews.info these cities would be the best for the ufl
Greater Los Angeles
San Antonio
Portland
Milwaukee
Orlando
Sacramento
Salt Lake City
Toronto
LAS vegas
Memphis

[Shootmaster_44]

Think about it the only major change that I'm proposing is that the field be reduced five yards on each side of the center field stripe. I really believe that the reason why so many communities were not willing to cooperate with CFLUSA teams is because they were percieved as foreign. This would eliminate this problem. Does AC Milan refuse to play teams from England? No. The CFL has no where else to go but the U.S. . The stadium deal in Halifax is dead. No body who has the cash is willing to place a team in Ottawa or Quebec City. My old business professor used to say if you are not growning you are dying. Times have changed in the years since CFLUSA.

1. The CFL has a small regional U.S. broadcast agreement. It isn't worth anything but it does provide access. A few games were shown on ESPN way back when but not this many.

2.Ottawa has failed twice so that market is beyond burned.

3.The long talked about expansion into the Maritimes has garnered almost no support because the stadium won't be built.

4. This would be a merger not a sell out. I'm even willing to propose two commissioners. One in America and one in Canada. See that's called a compromise. If the CFL knew what one was they might not have failed in the U.S. expansion.

5. It is going to have to happen eventually. Accept it. It might as well be done while working with financial geniusses instead of being bought out or trying to beg and scrape and do it yourselves.

The CFL has stated that they will not expand to the United States until there is 10 financially viable Canadian franchises. I personally have no problem with expansion to the US. My points of contention with your proposal is killing the CFL and killing the Canadian game. If the UFL wants to merge with the CFL fine, play 3 down football on a 110 yard field with 20 yard end zones in a league called the CFL.

As for the Act of Parliament, I have been told by a current Senator (and former Blue Bomber BOG member) that if the NFL intended to expand into Canada and the CFL were on the verge of extinction as a result, he would introduce legislation to protect the CFL. The Phantoms did not cause a stir because they were never perceived as a threat to the CFL. The WFL when they proposed the Canadian Football Act was perceived as a threat.

Yes Ottawa is a dead issue, but Quebec City is not. Currently, l'Universite du Laval (which is based in Quebec City) plays in a 15,000 (or less) seat stadium and averages 14,000 fans per game in the CIS. Only 3 teams in all of CIS average over 5,000. Laval has attracted close to 20,000 on occasion as a result UL is considering expanding PEPS to 20,000 seats. This is large enough for a CFL team as the Alouettes currently play in a similar stadium at McGill.

As for the owner of a Quebec City team, there is talk that the owner of the Laval football team (and yes it is privately funded) is interested in pursuing a CFL for Quebec City. He's the owner of one of the largest furniture chains in Quebec. Thus, there is money and a potentially big enough stadium for a Quebec City team.

Lastly, with the way the Canadian dollar is rising and the American dollar is plummeting, what economic reason does the CFL have for going into the US? There will never be NFL sized tv deals for the CFL, especially not when the NHL can barely get a paying tv deal. (Seems to me the Versus NHL deal pays around $50,000,000 per season, while NBC pays nothing for the NHL.) The deal the CFL currently has in the US is likely the best deal it will have, unless a new national sports network arises looking for content.

Plus there are very few stadiums in the United States large enough for the CFL field. I believe Baltimore Stadium was the only stadium during the US days that was roughly CFL sized. I remember Birmingham had 10 yard end zones and was around 60 yards wide, Sacramento had small end zones and I think Vegas' end zones were incredibly dangerous as they were 15 yards but the out of bounds line was essentially against a brick wall. Suffice to say, new stadiums would have to be built for the CFL teams and in the US, the CFL is not considered the top league, it is considered somewhere around NFL Europa and the AFL.

To most Canadians, I think you'll find, compare the CFL to the NFL, the AFL and NFL Europa are not even on the same map as the CFL to most fans. So merging with a league that is less than the top league in the US would cause many fans to move away from it. Plus, if you play American football the fans would be disinterested, this among many, many other reasons was why the Toronto Phantoms died.

[Shootmaster_44]

Canadians really need to get over their anti-American sentiment. It's okay politically if that is where you fall but it is crazy for a sports league.

1. I never said the CFL would sell out. This would not be like the XFL fiasco. I completely agree with the CFL for not going that route.

2. You have a really good quality, high budget league trying to survive in a market 1/10 the size of the U.S. . The league needs additional income. Every year it becomes harder and harder for a CFL team to survive despite the fact attendance is going up.

3. Montreal's owner wants U.S. expansion. So I'm not saying anything he is not already saying.

4. The 1974 Canadian Football Act is no longer applicable. Look at the fact that the Toronto Phantoms played. No acts of Parliament occured then.

Try to be open minded before you say "I'm Canadian and I won't play football with Americans." That is just rediculous. How would you Canadians like it if the NHL decided to not operate in Canada anymore. For that matter you tell me a league of higher value than the AHL could survive in Canada alone without t.v. money, without major corporate money, and without access to U.S. markets. I'm sorry it won't work. I also love the fact that Canadians don't drive any American cars. Yeah right. This is a business venture similar to cars or any other business. Get over your sacred arrogance.

This is not an anti-American diatribe, its an anti-American football diatribe. The Alouettes owner, if he wants US expansion wants within the CFL, not the CFL to be swallowed by a different league. Like I said, Mark Cuban would be welcomed with open arms if he wanted a CFL expansion franchise, providing it wasn't for Tahiti or Peru.

The CFL survives with major TV money. TSN just paid $75,000,000 over 5 years for exclusive CFL rights in Canada. I highly doubt any US network would pay near that for the CFL rights. In fact, I'd be surprised if any US network would pay a cent for the CFL rights, they'd want the deal the AFL had with NBC which saw NBC pick up the production costs and the AFL and NBC splitting the advertising revenue.

I like how you seem to assume there are no corporations in Canada. The CFL has major sponsors in the form of WestJet (a major Canadian airline), Purolator Courier (Canada's answer to UPS), ScotiaBank and Molson (a major Canadian brewery). As well, the CFL has an influx of American sponsorship in the form of Wendy's, Tums, Celebrex, Sony and Safeway. So is there really any specific need for an American team to draw American sponsorship?

Lastly, I haven't heard in the last few years of any teams struggling financially in the CFL. The Ti-Cats found new ownership and as a result are financially stable. Here in Saskatchewan, the Riders have recovered their season ticket base from the dismal mid-90's. It seems your vision of the CFL is stuck in 1996 when the US teams died and Baltimore moved to Montreal. The fact is, if the CFL needed US teams, that would be the first priority of the league. But since, your comments regarding the Als owner are the first time I've heard anyone support US expansion since 1996, obviously it is not something the CFL wants or desires.

[Shootmaster_44]

The C(ontinental)FL had a franchise in Toronto and maybe another city, but that was in the 60s(?).

Baltimore and Sacramento were VERY successful franchises in the CFL, the only reason Sacto moved was because Sac State wouldnt expand the stadiums field to fit CFL standards nor for more seats....more seats? If they were failing, why more seats? Also they tried to get the city to fit part of the bill for a new stadium, but all the politics were going towards possibly getting the Raiders at the time and not a "minor league" team (OKC syndrome). I think if the owner were more patient then Sacto would STILL be in the CFL and possibly Montreal still in Baltimore (and maybe the Browns dont move).

The slow and steady wins the race argument:

The fly by night owners are what did the US markets in. Shreveport and Las Vegas are the infamous of these....but with the updates and expansion to Sam Boyd and the success of the Outlaws its pretty obvious LV could survive in a league.....as long as it isnt arena!!!! The CFL hit the Valley EARLY in its perpetual growth, since then (1996) I wouldnt be surprised if the population hasnt doubled!

Prior to the NCAA season both Birmingham and Memphis did well attendance wise. It was 'Bama and Vols that did those football teams in. I think its a foregone conclusion that Baltimore would no longer exist as the Browns announced their move and then the CFLers left for Montreal.

Another problem with the US expansion was the cost of travel to the Southern US for the teams. Air travel from Canada to the US was (and to an extent still is) enormously expensive. I think this is why the CFL went to the North/South Divisional alignment instead of the East/West. That way the Canadian teams wouldn't play in the US as often and therefore save on travel.

The last problem was the US immigration rules. The import ratio gave the US teams an unfair advantage on the field as they weren't forced to field Canadian players. This is one of the major reasons when any media type brings up US expansion, the CFL flatly refuses to entertain the idea. CFL rules state you must carry a certain number of non-imports (i.e. Canadians) on your roster (I believe its 20) and US immigration rules did not allow for this.

I think you'll slowly find this number climbing due to the passport rules for entering Canada from the US. The Riders were having a tough time bringing up a receiver from USC the other day as he did not have a passport and therefore could not fly into Regina. I think you'll find the fringe US players losing their spots to Canadians as the Canadian players don't need a passport as they are already in Canada.

[mrcool92501]

Like i stated on uflnews.info these cities would be the best for the ufl
Greater Los Angeles
San Antonio
Portland
Milwaukee
Orlando
Sacramento
Salt Lake City
Toronto
LAS vegas
Memphis


las vegas...graveyard for pro sports teams

:)

:cool:

[logoguru]

las vegas...graveyard for pro sports teams

:)

:cool:

Yes, if this were 10 years ago I'd agree with you. But as I, a las Vegas native, have seen the Valley quadruple in size and seen it at least double since........

the Outlaws SOLD OUT!!!!

Please do me a favor and talk about things you know. :!:

No one would be looking at Vegas if it were a graveyard....MLB, NHL and NBA. We have a VERY successful ECHL team and the 51's dont do so bad for the area of Vegas they are stuck in.
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[sportsguy12]

Yes, if this were 10 years ago I'd agree with you. But as I, a las Vegas native, have seen the Valley quadruple in size and seen it at least double since........

the Outlaws SOLD OUT!!!!

Please do me a favor and talk about things you know. :!:

No one would be looking at Vegas if it were a graveyard....MLB, NHL and NBA. We have a VERY successful ECHL team and the 51's dont do so bad for the area of Vegas they are stuck in.

Las Vegas seems to draw well for some things. I wouldn't say that pro football is one of them. The AFL Gladiators moved to a smaller arena and are still struggling.

The Posse drew a 8,953 in their only season.

http://www.oursportscentral.com/cflinamerica/lasvegas.php
The Posse were the least successful of the American teams, both on and off the field. A CFL franchise was awarded to Nick Mileti for Las Vegas in 1993. The team took to the field in 1994, and despite a strong nucleus of young stars, the Posse were doomed from the start. A stadium far from the central city, stifling desert heat during the games, unfamiliarity with the Canadian game, and a general oversupply of entertainment options meant that the Posse had a long uphill battle to fight.

Led by former UNLV and NFL coach Ron Meyer, the Posse started with a pair of wins over Sacramento and Saskatchewan, but things quickly went downhill from there. Dwindling attendance bottomed out during the eighth home game (against Winnipeg), when less than 3,000 fans showed up, many of them on excursions from Winnipeg. Players openly complained that teammates and coaches were apathetic, and no longer cared about the on-field fortunes of the team in light of the circus that transpired off it. The final game was moved to Edmonton, and by then, it was clear the team would not be returning to Las Vegas.

The Outlaws started out with a bang, but eventually hit the graveyard, too.

[logoguru]

Like I said this is now.....that was then. The Posse was a joke, but where are you from, Im done arguing semantics, take a look at the pop numbers in wikipedia. Arena football is lame and everyone stays away because it sucks.
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