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View Full Version : New Franchises for 08-09???


jjbballfan
05-24-2007, 05:21 PM
Now that it appears that there will be no more expansion franchises for 07-08 I figured we should start talking about 08-09.... Here is some cities that could POSSIBLY be expanding.

Omaha--- Have heard that a local ownership group has been formed have heard that the Omaha Racers ownership is still in tack and is looking at taking there disfunct franchise and activating it for the D-league... All here say though so I don't know.

Rapid City--- Building new arena right now and the Civic Center Board is desperate for tenent in either building... Local ownership has always been a problem with franchises in R.C. though the Thrillers led attendence in CBA in early 90's

Reno???-- I knew that they applied for D-league not shure why they were turned down..

Sioux City--- USHL and UIF have performed well in S.C. and newer Arena could mean possility

La Crosse--- If the Rim Rockers don't move there I have heard of possility of an expansion team

Casper--- Have the most successful NIFL team and could support a Dleague team...

Other cities I would like to see add D-league franchises

Billings MT
Colorado Springs CO
Gary IN
Rockford IL
Witchita KS
Grand Rapids MI
Quad Cities IA/IL


Feel free to add input on any city or to add a city... I know some of these cities didn't support CBA teams well but I think the Dleague could work.

As you have seen almost all of these cities are in the midwest, I think if the Dleague wants to work the cities they place franchises in will have to support them but the Franchises will also have to be a big deal in those cities... In midwestern cities minor league franchises recieve coverage of Big league teams.

USBasket_EricE
05-24-2007, 09:36 PM
I miss the Rockford Lightning. It's too bad that they had to fold up, but they had trouble attracting fans. My guess is that it had to do with the fact that they are so close to Chicago and the more professional and exciting Bulls.

DakotaWizardsFan
05-24-2007, 09:59 PM
I miss the Rockford Lightning. It's too bad that they had to fold up, but they had trouble attracting fans. My guess is that it had to do with the fact that they are so close to Chicago and the more professional and exciting Bulls.

I miss a lot of teams also:
Yakama Sun Kings (even though I DID NOT like them)
Gary Steelheads
Rockford Lightning
Fargo-Moorhead Beez (a little before my time for the most part, but I still saw them a few times)
Magic City Snowbears (same as above)
Saskatchewan Hawks (")

There's probably more too, but I cannot think of them.

EDIT: Wait, I've got one more: Des Moines Dragons

USBasket_EricE
05-24-2007, 10:47 PM
The big joke teams! Great Lakes Storm and Michigan Mayhem! I liked the Storm, even though their attendance totals were laughable (238, 150, 5##), but I didn't like the Mayhem. The Mayhem was the most unorganized team that I can remember from my years of following the CBA. I seem to remember them putting all their focus on their cheesy mascot and hardly any on the players or the games. The big promo on their website was "Get your Chaos (the mascot) bobble-head now!" The webcasts never seemed to work when games were taking place there. I listened to a game on the radio while the Wizards were there and the announcers didn't seem to know what the hell was going on and as I recall, the team was fined by the CBA the next day for "game operations violations". The players never had names on their jerseys either and never seemed to wear the same number two nights in a row, which always confused me when I was writing for USBASKET, mentioning a certain player and their number.

Maybe a D-League team in Northern Minnesota would work? I want to see more teams in the midwest. And what about Wyoming? I can't think of a pro team of any kind in that state.

logoguru
05-25-2007, 12:02 AM
I thought I saw Cedar Rapids mentioned at one time....

Im pretty sure Reno is dead....both the city and the team!
________
Bong (http://glassbongs.org/)

jjbballfan
05-25-2007, 12:30 AM
I was just thinking that if you added Rapid City and Casper that it would then link Colorado, R.C. , Casper, Bismark and Sioux Falls.. Then if you add Omaha and Sioux City you have the I-29 Rivalry with Sioux Falls...Fargo would be a great addition if the Bison don't effect attendence. If you add Gary and Rockford with a Michagen and LaCrosse plus Iowa you then got a Great Lakes region.

Something like this is what I would like

1 Division
Broomfield (Colorado) +
Casper
Rapid City
Bismark (Dakota) +
Boisie
Colorado Springs

2 Division
Sioux Falls+
Iowa+
Omaha
Sioux City
Fargo-Moorehead
Witchita Kansas

3 Division
Gary
Rockford
Michigan Team
Ft. Wayne+
Youngstown OH
Nashville TN

My wish list I guess (+) indicates actual franchises

LandRoverUT60
05-30-2007, 05:10 PM
St. George, Utah; let's get a rivalry between southern and northern Utah.

Tombor
08-02-2007, 01:29 PM
Some friends of mine in Cincinnati have said that the local media has talked about getting a D-league team there. It sounds cool, but I don't think it could compete with UC or Xavier hoops.

How about Kansas City? Getting an NHL or NBA team in Sprint Center is sort of bleak right now and you'd have KC in a good location for Iowa, Dakota, SF, and a future Omaha team.

bectond
08-03-2007, 06:08 AM
Youngstown
Reno
Fort Worth
Omaha

Other possibles are:
Toledo (most likely will join in 09)
Hartford (most likely will join in 09)

Fargo would also make a good expansion city, but I have not heard anything on that front.

The Mayhem would have been a model franchise in some other leaques. They drew about 1,400 per game and had an NBA call-up in Derrick Martin. But in the CBA, yeah they were the worst. And it's funny thinking back on but Chaos was their star. LOL

Butte currently has the best mascot in the CBA, he is a dancing machine. LOL
In the NBDL the Toros mascot is totally reaching San Diego Chicken like status, two years ago dude made Sports Center. LOL

Pounder
08-06-2007, 05:05 PM
Reno- not the Convention Center, no?

That place actually gets business, so cost of rent is high.

Livestock Center?

S.Sox
09-26-2007, 12:58 PM
I heard on Monday while trying to find the ABA's Reno Shaprshooters practice , that Reno will get a D-League team in 2008.

I heard Ethan O'Bryant (ABA coach, Harlem Globetrotter, Former NBA'er)talking to someone stating they will play at the new Reno Events Center with affliation to the Sac Kings.

Done deal, venue signed.

http://www.visitrenotahoe.com/facilities/reno_events/photo_gallery/

S.Sox

AConcernedCitizen
09-26-2007, 01:04 PM
Spokane?

Pittsburgh?

Buffalo?

If the East Coast NBA clubs are to be involved they've got to move a bit east...

jjbballfan
09-26-2007, 04:30 PM
Reno is old news but I don't think the D-league can work in the east.... In the east there is always something going on generally more attractive then minor league basketball.... If you put the franchises in mid-west its the talk of the town it gets sponsor's gets local television coverage and gets a fan base.... I still think if the D-league wants to be something the mid-west is where to go.

OneBetter
09-26-2007, 04:52 PM
If the NBA really established the D-League as their AAA-equivalent level league, then I think it could work in the east. There are many successful AAA baseball teams and AHL hockey teams on the East Coast.

The problem is that currently the D-League is not really AAA level. A triple-A league is supposed to have all the best players that are just shy of the skill sets of those up in the majors. This is not really true in the D-League. There are many European leagues with better tallent. Until the NBA pays these guys enough to stay in the US and play in the D-League, it will never be successful because it will never have the "next best" tallent.

AConcernedCitizen
09-27-2007, 09:05 AM
I think I agree with that statement. Is there a Mission Statement for the D-League that the NBA has posted?

I see where the Ft Wayne team is playing in a 12,000 seat arena. I don't understand that logic--if you put even 6,000 people in there it will not have a great atmosphere. Maybe there is no where else to play.

Are D-League games entertaining and is there parity and genuine competition?

Need to see one of these games. But how? Fly to Boise?

rams80
09-27-2007, 11:44 AM
I think I agree with that statement. Is there a Mission Statement for the D-League that the NBA has posted?

I see where the Ft Wayne team is playing in a 12,000 seat arena. I don't understand that logic--if you put even 6,000 people in there it will not have a great atmosphere. Maybe there is no where else to play.

Are D-League games entertaining and is there parity and genuine competition?

Need to see one of these games. But how? Fly to Boise?

Fort Wayne only has the one arena.

ChumpDumper
09-27-2007, 12:12 PM
Need to see one of these games. But how? Fly to Boise?Where are you?

I agree that arenas much over 4-5,000 seats isn't going to be great for any minor league basketball team. Of course, I'd feel the same about minor league hockey, but the Fort Wayne Komets had a listed average attendance of over 7,000 last season.

MJHankel
09-27-2007, 04:07 PM
If the NBA really established the D-League as their AAA-equivalent level league, then I think it could work in the east. There are many successful AAA baseball teams and AHL hockey teams on the East Coast.

Just a note, minor league basketball will NEVER do as good as baseball.

Shootmaster_44
09-27-2007, 08:35 PM
I wonder if the D-League has designs on putting a team in Canada to act as the Raptors' affiliate? Not that I'm sure there's anyone with the cash in Saskatoon to purchase a team in the D-League, but I'd certainly love to see a team here again. I highly doubt it would happen and last, since we all saw what happened with the Hawks. As disappointing as it is, winter basketball doesn't work too well in Saskatoon.

The only way it could work is if they played at the PAC on the U of S campus. That facility (hard to call it an arena or a gym since its in-between) seats around 3,000 and would be better for a team than playing in an 11,000 seat arena. The only problem would be they could have no Friday or Saturday night games, as one of the U of S basketball and volleyball teams play every weekend all winter. Plus the month of December would be out likely, as they use the PAC for writing exams. The only day that the team could play at home during December would be on Sundays as there is exams Monday-Saturday running at 9, 2 and 7 PM. So they couldn't even clean the tables and chairs out in the evenings for games.

I think the best bet for a successful franchise for me might be to hope the IBL finds someone who's a little more solid to put a team here. Summer basketball seems to draw fairly well here and the Credit Union Centre might be willing to give them a cheaper rent as it keeps money flowing into their pockets instead of sitting dark most of the summer.

jjbballfan
10-15-2007, 02:12 AM
I think if the situation was right Canada would get a NBDL team but the Dleague isn't going to put a team up there just so the raptors can have an affiliate....

The reason minor league baseball works is because of 1 word "prospects" die hard yankees fans love to go watch a AAA or a AA game just to see the future..... Basketball will never get a true minor league system the money just doesn't work out guarentee contracts mean you perform now or you sit on the end of the bench and smile when the camera is there. if the nba wanted to make the dleague great they could just look at what baseball has done.... but again its a different sport baseball players need a minor league system alot more then basketball players do generally a top prospect takes 2-5 years to make it to the parent program with basketball that just cant happen.

jjbballfan
10-19-2007, 03:18 PM
Fargo is discussing putting a 6,500 seat arena as an addition to the Fargo Dome... main tenant of course being NDSU but I think that if a DLeague team would be willing to work around it that they could get a favorable lease for a new arena.....

Rapid City's new 5,600 arena to be added on to the existing Civic Center which already consist of a 9,500 seat arena is coming along well and is expected to be done by November of 08.....

jjbballfan
10-25-2007, 02:07 AM
Now that we are getting started or close to started with the D-league I think we can start reporting actual rumors of franchises set to start in 08-09.... I have heard of Reno which I think is pretty much a given, Omaha I have heard has everything in place and last I heard was in the process of getting approved by the league and my source said don't expect any hold ups in that department.... I have heard that the Tribe in Yakima is in financial trouble its on the CBA board and I have heard it from other people.... I think if Yakima closes shop the league needs to get there asap... you could be looking at a big market and possibly bigger if the Sonics leave, (Vancuver, Yakima, Spokane and Seattle) I heard that the league was looking at another Colorado team.... I would guess either, Loveland, Ft. Collins or Colorado Springs if it was the case..... I think that Kansas City and St. Louis would be great possibilities both teams want NBA teams and the NBA could make one of those mentions saying you support a D-league team and you will get high consideration towards a NBA team (I don't know what those cities have for mid-sized arena's though)

I would like the d-league to add 5-8 franchises in 08-09 with out loosing any....

rams80
10-25-2007, 11:47 AM
Reno and Omaha may get teams, but they won't last for long; Dana Altman's Creighton program will kill the Omaha team, and I give a Reno team similarly dismal prospects against Nevada.

You don't want Yakima. If the tribe failed, no one else will be able to make it up there.

I'm not sure your strategy would work in KC or St. Louis either-that usually only works in towns that have zero or one major league team. Otherwise, minor league teams tend to get drowned out.

jjbballfan
10-25-2007, 01:59 PM
Reno and Omaha may get teams, but they won't last for long; Dana Altman's Creighton program will kill the Omaha team, and I give a Reno team similarly dismal prospects against Nevada.

You don't want Yakima. If the tribe failed, no one else will be able to make it up there.

I'm not sure your strategy would work in KC or St. Louis either-that usually only works in towns that have zero or one major league team. Otherwise, minor league teams tend to get drowned out.

If you read he article on Yakima the tribe is loosing money else ware...... Yakima is a gold mine they have lead CBA attendances for years even with a bad league they still average good numbers..... Omaha could work there is enough people there to make it work Creighton won't help but if they have smart business people they should be able to make them coexist... Reno I agree with you there the ABA hasn't had luck at all there I would think Las Vegas would be better.... Kansas City would work no problem I think there is a relatively small arena on Kansas side of the river that could work.... You have Kansas City football but no Hockey no NBA so Dleague could work.... St. Louis does have NHL and would be tougher I agree with you there.....

rams80
10-25-2007, 02:40 PM
If you read he article on Yakima the tribe is loosing money else ware...... Yakima is a gold mine they have lead CBA attendances for years even with a bad league they still average good numbers.....

Annnnd they're losing money. If it was a gold mine, the team would not be going belly up now, wouldn't it.

Omaha could work there is enough people there to make it work Creighton won't help but if they have smart business people they should be able to make them coexist...
There are only so many basketball/sports entertainment dollars in Omaha. There are probably not enough for two basketball teams to co-exist.

Reno I agree with you there the ABA hasn't had luck at all there I would think Las Vegas would be better....
Actually, I'd give the Reno team better odds, honestly. ABA means nothing.

Kansas City would work no problem I think there is a relatively small arena on Kansas side of the river that could work.... You have Kansas City football but no Hockey no NBA so Dleague could work.... St. Louis does have NHL and would be tougher I agree with you there.....

Major League markets like Kansas City and St. Louis have a tendency to see minor league teams as being "beneath" them, and will therefore not support them. That would be a bigger problem to overcome than I think you are making it out to be. Besides, folks on the Kansas side of KC would probably prefer to go into Lawrence to watch Kansas.

jjbballfan
10-25-2007, 04:11 PM
Annnnd they're losing money. If it was a gold mine, the team would not be going belly up now, wouldn't it.


There are only so many basketball/sports entertainment dollars in Omaha. There are probably not enough for two basketball teams to co-exist.


Actually, I'd give the Reno team better odds, honestly. ABA means nothing.



Major League markets like Kansas City and St. Louis have a tendency to see minor league teams as being "beneath" them, and will therefore not support them. That would be a bigger problem to overcome than I think you are making it out to be. Besides, folks on the Kansas side of KC would probably prefer to go into Lawrence to watch Kansas.

I still think Yakima would be a great fit for minor league basketball... at least attendance wise maybe the sponsors aren't there and other stuff like that.... I agree with you on big cities I have been dead against going out east but I know people from Kansas City and they all say they want something I knew a guy that went from cloud nine when the penguins were going to move there to dumpster when it was announced that they wouldn't.... Omaha I don't know I have heard what you have heard that it would never work with Creighton but then there are others that say it would work great.... All what I am saying is I have heard that there will be a team there....

rams80
10-25-2007, 10:21 PM
There is a difference between getting a NHL team like the Penguins and a mere D-League team.

jjbballfan
10-26-2007, 01:15 AM
There is a difference between getting a NHL team like the Penguins and a mere D-League team.

Is there???? ;)

rams80
10-26-2007, 09:24 AM
Is there???? ;)

Ummm yes....The NHL has many more fans, and a much higher status, than the D-League ever will.

Crystal Ball
10-27-2007, 10:22 AM
How soon you all forget....The TOP 4 Teams last year all came from the CBA the year before....Dakota,Sioux Falls,Idaho Stampede,Colorado...Best Teams with best Attendance figures...So before you start knocking the CBA as a bad League just remember where the D-League goes to get their established Teams....I can see there method ..Take the Top Teams from the CBA and they will go away....Well lets see what happens this year in The Rio Grand Valley market...You have two teams going after the same dollar...Two Teams in ONE market...Only time will tell...:eek:

DakotaWiz
10-27-2007, 01:41 PM
I just looked at ticket prices and see that the Vipers cheapest tickets are the Silverados most expensive... So I could see that maybe the Silverados will have a higher attendance, but I wouldn't say they'll make more revenue.. I think January 16th will be the true test, as that's the first time they play at home on the same night..

Crystal Ball
10-27-2007, 04:40 PM
I doubt One date is going to make it or break it either way for each Franchise.;)

ChumpDumper
10-27-2007, 06:14 PM
The valley is a very interesting area. It's considered a small market, but there are two cities with half a million people each right across the river. I wonder how the teams are being marketed in Reynosa.

DakotaWiz
10-27-2007, 08:42 PM
It definitely won't make or break either team, but we'll see where the community stands on which team it'd rather watch...

jjbballfan
10-27-2007, 09:32 PM
The one big thing when having franchises in the same city is sponsors and season tickets......

DakotaWiz
10-27-2007, 11:18 PM
Good point, but walk up sales matter as well, unless they do an amazing job of season sales. Even so, I'm interested to see how each team fares when they both play the same night at home.

mzracing76
10-28-2007, 01:17 AM
Yakima would be a very good market for the NBDL. THey have a great fan base for basketball, and are the only thing going in that town.

Dont blame the team for a lack of Ownership. The Tribe is a mess, and dont deserve to own a team. I would hope that the original ownership group (1990-1999) would buy that team back. Yakima, like Sioux Falls was always a great market.

then when Yakima gets a NBDL team, they should seriously think of putting a team in the Tri Cities area (just up the road) as a key rival for Yakima. Tri City had great fan support but had less than steller management which bankrolled the team.

jjbballfan
10-28-2007, 12:41 PM
Yakima to Seattle-- 142 Miles
Yakima to Tri City-- 77 Miles
Yakima to Spokane-- 202 Miles
Yakima to Vancuver Canada-- 276 Miles
Yakima to Boise ID-- 364 Miles

Yakima would fit in perfect and by adding an established franchise like Yakima could open a lot of franchises in a close area....
Seating capacities of local arenas
Spokane Arena-- 12,210
Tri City Toyota Center--- 5,780
Seattle has Key arena but I think there is one being built in a suburb in the 6,000 seat area
Vancuver has General Motors Palace but I also think there is another one in the area that is smaller.

rams80
10-28-2007, 01:03 PM
From what I've seen elsewhere the town is dying. They tried to get an af2 team for the upcoming season, but they couldn't get their ducks in a row. Not a good sign. Anyway, the D-League probably could have had Yakima back when they cherry-picked the other CBA teams. They didn't. What should you concluded from that?

jjbballfan
10-28-2007, 05:44 PM
From what I've seen elsewhere the town is dying. They tried to get an af2 team for the upcoming season, but they couldn't get their ducks in a row. Not a good sign. Anyway, the D-League probably could have had Yakima back when they cherry-picked the other CBA teams. They didn't. What should you concluded from that?

The D-League wanted and invited Yakima.... The Tribe who is about as worthless as they come from what I have heard A. Couldn't foot the bill and B. Didn't want to go to a league that cost more.... I don't blame them though because they averaged 5,000 people in a dead CBA over the past 2 years.

I think now the league is going to try to put teams where it is logical geographically I don't see them going much farther east then Ft. Wayne unless an NBA team buys a team and places one there.
By putting a team in Yakima you could put one in Tri-City right away and have 2 teams that would support it well if or more likely when Seattle leaves you can put a D-League team there and look at Vancouver and Spokane. Then you have 5 teams that are close geographically in a region that doesn't have much during the Winter 1 NHL team 1 NBA team 1 or 2 minor league hockey teams. by then the Dleague should be more attractive also.... I look at Omaha to tie in the midwest Witchita would also help tie the midwest in. Casper and Rapid City would fit in perfect with Bismark, Sioux Falls, and Colorado. Put 1 or more teams in Colorado could save big again with travel cost (Springs, Ft. Collins, Loveland) Put one in Tri-City NE and then you have another close team. Montana could work but college basketball and CBA are big there so I would think about waiting until going up there. Some where in Southern Utah may work and a city in Northern California would also help tie things all together. I look at Fargo-Morehead, and Winnipeg Canada as possiblities along with either LaCrosse WI or Rochester MN...

The thing the dleague has to start doing is making it more profitable and the best way to do that is by cutting travel cost. Teams that are less then 8 hours would save alot of money taking buses so I would bet now that a new franchise would be with in 8 hours of a team except WA.

ChumpDumper
10-28-2007, 06:59 PM
Aren't there like three CBA teams slated to begin operations in the Seattle/Vancouver area over the next three years? I can see the NBA cherry picking one of those. Hell, Paul Allen might want to start one as a pretext to moving the Blazers there.

jjbballfan
10-28-2007, 07:52 PM
Aren't there like three CBA teams slated to begin operations in the Seattle/Vancouver area over the next three years? I can see the NBA cherry picking one of those. Hell, Paul Allen might want to start one as a pretext to moving the Blazers there.

Ya something like that they have been talking for years and then right before the league says are you in they say wait one year... last i heard they wanted to wait until after the Olympics but who knows.... All I am saying is if the NBA could get one of there guys up in that area they could open a whole new market and get 2-4 others with Yakima....

Pounder
10-31-2007, 06:09 PM
Allen BOUGHT the Rose Garden. It would now be a major blunder to move the Blazers.

Tri-City - been there, done that. Ag base with major tech underpinnings, but they only just got around to supporting their long-time WHL team, the af2 team does draw, the baseball team does not. It's really a market for (and S**ttle fans should get this reference) the Ineffectual Middle Management Suckups.

Yakima - if it's dying, don't blink, because the current housing bubble will probably HELP these guys... otherwise, whatever financial base they had is dissippating. Could be Hispanic-dominated by now (maybe not for long in the still-growing Northwest). This is an ag town with NO tech underpinnings. Baseball team (with a rather nice facility, from what I've seen) does not draw well. CBA team only got a boost when Rony Turiaf played his rehab stint there. I'm betting the attendance numbers are puffery (they wouldn't be the first NW team to do that, by any means).

Everett - the IBL team moved out for a reason. So, if you're...

...Kent, do you trust Tuckman? If anything, Kent probably hopes for the departure of the Sonics... but I doubt anyone else benefits basketball-wise from that.

S**ttle is a top-15 market that is NOT going to go for minor-league ball.

Vancouver will never see CBA IMO. CBA will get MAYBE one of three promised.

The Seattle region, in all reality, is one of the greatest mallrat front-running areas in all American sports. They've left the old Kingdome half-full (if that) and packed UW women's basketball games until team fortunes reversed. They'll follow UW Crew and junior hockey instead of CBA if the moment beckons. Most of all, area lawyers and courts are not at all generous about letting owners out of leases, meaning, say, it's a real risk for the current Sounders owner and friends to open up MLS in 2009 in Qwest Field.

Funny thing: out of the aforementioned markets, Yakima is the only place I'd put basketball right now.

mzracing76
11-09-2007, 08:22 PM
Omaha would be a very good fit for the NBDL. Omaha did manage to average 3500-4000 fans per game during their first run at pro basketball. The Omaha Racers coached by Mike Thibault (now in Connecticut, WNBA) had some great players in its hay day (Tim Legler, Sebastion O'Neal, Mark Wade). Omaha made the CBA Finals back to back years (1993 & 1994) beatin the Grand Rapids Hoops in '93.

Omaha would be a great fit for the NBDL for two reasons. They have Sioux Falls to the North to re-establish the I-29 rivalry they once had with the Skyforce, and they also would have the I-35 Rivalry withthe Des Moines team.

Sioux Falls vs Omaha were some interesting matchups back in its day, and the fans supported both teams. We would go down there on our road games, and the Omaha fans would have a bus load coming up here for their road games.

Yes, I have always said that Omaha would come back one day, after all, they still have a Link to the old Omaha Racers onthe internet explaining their situation of why they ceased operations.

Omaha would again average 3500 fans a game if they came back.

MZ

mzracing76
11-09-2007, 08:28 PM
Here is a link to the OMAHA website:

http://slam.home.radiks.net/newmain.html

MZ

#1 T-Birds Fan
11-09-2007, 11:30 PM
Seattle, Washington
Birmingham, Alabama
Tampa Bay, Florida
Tuscon/Scottsdale, Arizona
Omaha, Nebraska
Charleston, South Carolina
Ontario, Canada (yes I said, Canada)
Mexico City, Mexico :lol:

jjbballfan
11-10-2007, 01:45 AM
I'm a little shakey on Tampa Bay and Charlston.... nothing minor league major league or anything has really ever worked in Florida, until Shaq and Dwade the upper deck wasn't used in Miami and Orlando has been an up and down franchise for years.... And you can't put a team South Carolina because they wouldn't be close to anybody, no rival and a lot of travel isn't much fun.... I like Mexico City, elevation and passport visa type of stuff would be the only problems with that and I like Canada I would personally like to see 3-5 teams eventually in Canada..... I

jjbballfan
11-10-2007, 01:59 AM
Canada cities I would look at

Vancouver-- had the NBA didn't really work to well but I think would support a Dleague team well
Edmonton-- I believe they have minor league baseball
Winipeg-- has had baseball for years
Ottowa-- has the Senators

Mexico City-- would really see if they are ready for a pro franchise.

I still think the whole Washington/Oregon could really work but rumor has it Tuckman has bought the Great Falls CBA franchise so I don't know how much longer that area would work.... You get there first you control your own destiny but if the CBA goes there first and screws up you can't put a franchise in that city for 5 years and then still you are in a whole....

Rapid City would work great because its 6 hours from Sioux Falls, 6 Hours from Bismark, 6 hours from Colorado...

Sioux City I really think is a great market that is hidden they have had USHL hockey since it started and has worked great, indoor football has worked great, American Association baseball has worked great, and is and hour from sioux falls, not far from Des Moins would be a couple hours from Omaha... would sit close to quite a few franchises and has a newer arena.... I also think Casper would work because they have a good facility and is close to Colorado's franchise....

#1 T-Birds Fan
11-12-2007, 01:52 PM
Rapid City I dont think has enough of a fan base. They have a population of like 35,ooo. I dont think thats enough.

jjbballfan
11-12-2007, 02:22 PM
Rapid City I dont think has enough of a fan base. They have a population of like 35,ooo. I dont think thats enough.

its over 60,000 and when they were in the CBA they killed averaged around 6,000 a game.... the problem with Rapid City is they have been scr*w*d by owner after owner, the first was the CBA owner (local guy) who moved the team after averaging 6,000 because he thought he got a better arena deal in florida, then they had team after team that did it cheaply then the NIFL disaster. It also has a well upkept 9,500 seat arena and is building a new 5,500 seat arena with skyboxes. Also have to remember its only college is a NAIA one so you don't have to bother with that.

also have to remind people that they announced that a minor league hockey team was coming to town and they already have sold over 1000 season tickets and the arena isn't going to be finished for another year. (alot of people complained with the league they brought in i think it was the CHL and most folks wanted the USHL)

#1 T-Birds Fan
11-12-2007, 05:19 PM
I still dont think there fan base will be that big. Most of there population could care less about sports.

I just hope we dont lose our team : /

jjbballfan
11-21-2007, 06:07 PM
I think if Rapid City gets a Dleague team to stay for 3 years that it will be top of the league with attendance.... The Thrillers averaged over 6000 in attendance before the owner moved the team, the teams that came afterwards were 1 year and done and poorly managed....

Does anybody remember how these teams did off the court....

Wyoming Wildcattlers (Casper?)

LaCrosse Catbirds- I know the Rimrockers planned on moving there but the arena was being a joke don't know why....

Omaha Racers- heard that if Iowa does good with attendance this year that they will have a team next year personally i would put the team across the river in Council Bluff but that is me.

Witchita Falls Texans-- I would be guessing that it would be another option to were Cuban plans on putting his Dleague team at

Tri-City Chinook-- personally I would like to see this team be added if they got Yakima but that is me....

Here is a run down on 3 cities that have been overlooked because of size but I think would really work

Rapid City SD... 60,000-2 joint venues (9500 and 5800)... Past franchises were the Thrillers, Posse, and Gold however the CBA Thrillers were a step above the rest on and off the court... The CBA Thrillers averaged over 6,000 fans one year. Dead beat owners have killed the city allowing for 07 to be the first time in 15+ years that however a CHL team plans to start next season. Biggest competition would be the Hockey team, and a NAIA basketball team.

Sioux City IA... 85,000 a newer Gateway Arena (10,000)... No real past basketball franchises. Was one of the original USHL hockey teams which would be the biggest competition and 2 NAIA colleges. Also had good attendances in Indoor Football... Located right between Omaha and Sioux Falls puts it in a great place geographically..

Casper Wyoming... 50,000 7,200 seat arena, I believe the Wildcattlers of the old CBA played there... Have represented the Calvary in the pathetic NIFL really well.... No real competition that I know....

jjbballfan
11-26-2007, 04:10 PM
according to that article on the cavs the league plans on starting to announce franchises for the 08-09 season.... any guesses
Reno NV--- 99%
Toledo OH-- 90%
Youngstown OH--90%
Frisco TX--- 80%
Omaha NE--- 75%
Those are the only ones that I have heard has anybody heard any hard information that would lead me to believe that the Dleague is coming to there city?

bectond
11-30-2007, 08:36 PM
according to that article on the cavs the league plans on starting to announce franchises for the 08-09 season.... any guesses
Reno--- 99%
Toledo-- 90%
Youngstown--90%
Ft. Worth--- 80%
Omaha--- 75%
Those are the only three that I have heard has anybody heard any hard information that would lead me to believe that the Dleague is coming to there city?

This list looks about right for the next wave of expansion; however, Frisco Texas and not Fort Worth will be the entering the league next year.

jjbballfan
11-30-2007, 09:04 PM
This list looks about right for the next wave of expansion; however, Frisco Texas and not Fort Worth will be the entering the league next year.

aren't they in the same metro area? I'll change it though....

Pounder
12-03-2007, 01:55 PM
Same metro area, awfully far away from each other... not necessarily as the crow flies, but Lake Lewisville separates Frisco and that area north of Dallas from the riff-raff.

I say that with a tinge of sadness, because I consider FC Dallas poorly located there. Perhaps things will improve as the tollway is finished, but I'm not holding my breath.

jjbballfan
12-07-2007, 05:02 PM
I put this list on a different thread but just wanted to see what you guys thought about it... The reason I wouldn't put a team in Oklahoma is because I would wait until I figured out if they could support a team if/when the Sonics move to OKC

D-league franchises
Albuquerque NM- Suns
Austin TX- Spurs
Bakersfield CA- Clippers
Broomfield CO- Nuggets
Bismark ND- Wizards
Fort Wayne- Detroit
Boise ID- Warriors
Des Moines IA- Bulls
Ontario CA- Lakers--(suburb of LA where they plan to move)
RGV TX- Rockets
Sioux Falls SD- Wolves
Orem UT- Jazz

Expected D-league expansion franchises
Frisco TX- Mavericks (expected expansion team)
Reno NV- Kings (expected expansion team)
Youngstown OH- Cavs (expected expansion team)
Toledo OH- Pacers (expected expansion team)
Harlem NY- Knicks (expted expansion team in 2 years)

CBA Franchises
Albany NY- Nets
Yakima WA- Sonics
Pikeville KY- Hawks (see how they do)

Others
Tri-City WA- Blazers
Council Bluffs IA- Heat (across the river from Omaha same metro area)
Rapid City SD- Celtics
Casper WY- Grizzlies
Witchita Falls TX- Hornets
Sioux City IA- Bobcats
La Crosse WI- Bucks (if there venue can get real)
Colorado Springs CO- Sixers
Buffalo NY- Raptors
St. George UT- Magic

jjbballfan
12-12-2007, 05:52 PM
reports are that the Dleague is expected to start announcing expansion franchises in the next few weeks. So I ask what do you guys think will happen. I am thinking that there will be 6 new franchises, and at least 1 relocation (either Tulsa, Anaheim or possibly Arkansas if you consider that relocation) I think the new franchises will come from these cities in order from most likely
Reno NV
Toledo OH
Youngstown OH
Frisco TX
Omaha NE
Kansas City MO
St. Louis MO
Cincinnati OH
Buffalo NY
Harlem NY-- (more likely in the 09-10 year)

LandRoverUT60
12-14-2007, 12:35 PM
This writer thinks that it should be St. George that got the Flash in the first place. Here's the link from the local St. George Spectrum:

Utah's D-League Team Should Be Here (in St. George) (http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071211/SPORTS/712110320/1006/)

What does the one commenter mean by "rookie league team?" Are they referring to the IBL team that nearly played in St. George?

I think a D-League/CBA/IBL team would work out, if the owners were committed enough to put a team in the local college's (Dixie State) Burns Arena (Dixie St., I hear, was very cooperative in letting the Roadrunners use Hurst Field; scheduling aside, Burns Arena should be easy as well to inhabit). Back to topic, however; the reason why the botched IBL "St. George Heat" never materialized was probably that the owners were based in Las Vegas and people had little or no clue as to who they were, either. There wasn't much media hype around it, either.

If an owner is willing to put a D-League team in Southern Utah (St. George) and make it work out, then they would need to advertise, giving the team more exposure. I feel that the Roadrunners aren't being exposed enough (but I could be wrong here). They would need to be committed to the St. George market, long-term, and have rather deep pockets. The reason why the WBL's Pioneerzz folded after 3 seasons is that there were some poor decisions made near the top, or so I hear. If the D-League, CBA, or IBL can work out and not only survive but thrive in markets such as Great Falls, Bismark, Minot, and who knows where else like this, then it would most certainly work out in one of the nation's fastest growing cities (St. George).

jjbballfan
12-14-2007, 04:07 PM
This writer thinks that it should be St. George that got the Flash in the first place. Here's the link from the local St. George Spectrum:

Utah's D-League Team Should Be Here (in St. George) (http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071211/SPORTS/712110320/1006/)

What does the one commenter mean by "rookie league team?" Are they referring to the IBL team that nearly played in St. George?

I think a D-League/CBA/IBL team would work out, if the owners were committed enough to put a team in the local college's (Dixie State) Burns Arena (Dixie St., I hear, was very cooperative in letting the Roadrunners use Hurst Field; scheduling aside, Burns Arena should be easy as well to inhabit). Back to topic, however; the reason why the botched IBL "St. George Heat" never materialized was probably that the owners were based in Las Vegas and people had little or no clue as to who they were, either. There wasn't much media hype around it, either.

If an owner is willing to put a D-League team in Southern Utah (St. George) and make it work out, then they would need to advertise, giving the team more exposure. I feel that the Roadrunners aren't being exposed enough (but I could be wrong here). They would need to be committed to the St. George market, long-term, and have rather deep pockets. The reason why the WBL's Pioneerzz folded after 3 seasons is that there were some poor decisions made near the top, or so I hear. If the D-League, CBA, or IBL can work out and not only survive but thrive in markets such as Great Falls, Bismark, Minot, and who knows where else like this, then it would most certainly work out in one of the nation's fastest growing cities (St. George).

I don't know if this is a major paper but when local papers get involved it puts an idea in the heads of local businessmen. Burns arena is the perfect size for a Dleague team I personally think arenas should be in the 4-12 thousand seat arena but that 5-8 is perfect. I think the people of Utah would like to see a team in St. George to be a rival of the Flash.... One thing I would like to see with the expansion is tieing it all in to develop rivalries instead of going to the Northeast like David Stern always says.

SignGuyDino
12-14-2007, 06:28 PM
I wouldn't rule out a team in Asheville in the future, for eventually Charlotte will have to get a D-League team. There will be a new arena for UNC-Asheville that can seat 3,500 that will be open in 2-3 years. It would be designed primarily for UNCA of course but it would be a nice intimate facility that would be light years ahead of the Civic Center and be basketball-only.

I personally feel smaller venues are better until they draw attendance that justifies some of the huge barns they rent out now.

jjbballfan
12-14-2007, 08:02 PM
I plan on writing a summary of what I would do with the Dleague over christmas break and I will put in there why not to go to the Southeast.... Nothing against Asheville but they have 4 in state college teams that are good and they have the Bobcats but the main thing is unless you are going to put 4 other teams in the area I don't see it happening... now if the Bobcats decide to purchase a Dleague team and place it there then its a different story.

LandRoverUT60
12-18-2007, 01:36 AM
I don't know if this is a major paper but when local papers get involved it puts an idea in the heads of local businessmen. Burns arena is the perfect size for a Dleague team I personally think arenas should be in the 4-12 thousand seat arena but that 5-8 is perfect. I think the people of Utah would like to see a team in St. George to be a rival of the Flash.... One thing I would like to see with the expansion is tieing it all in to develop rivalries instead of going to the Northeast like David Stern always says.

As far as the Spectrum Newspaper is concerned, when it comes to cities like Salt Lake and Las Vegas, the Spectrum isn't a big paper. But in St. George, Cedar City, and the rest of rural South-West and South-Central Utah, it's the main local paper; many local people probably read the article. I actually wrote the writer of the article; he, along with me, agree that St. George can support a D-League team, and that it will become more attractive to various minor-league teams as it grows (like wildfire, in my opinion). He also said that the Flash are struggling with drawing 3,000 a game (I hope not).
I think that basketball will be the next minor-league sport to come to Southern Utah, given the currently available venues. Burns wouldn't easily hold arena football or hockey without taking a vast amount of seats with either sport. Nor is the Dixie Convention Center ready for arena football, with a 30' high roof and no locker room areas.

SignGuyDino
12-18-2007, 02:53 AM
I plan on writing a summary of what I would do with the Dleague over christmas break and I will put in there why not to go to the Southeast.... Nothing against Asheville but they have 4 in state college teams that are good and they have the Bobcats but the main thing is unless you are going to put 4 other teams in the area I don't see it happening... now if the Bobcats decide to purchase a Dleague team and place it there then its a different story.

That's going to be Charlotte's problem no matter what if they finally get a D-League team. It would make more sense for them to put a team in a building that seats no more than 4,000 to keep costs down.

LandRoverUT60
12-22-2007, 02:20 PM
I'm just wondering when the new cities are going to be announced. When are we going to know?

jjbballfan
12-22-2007, 03:53 PM
I personally would like to keep any owner that thought the ABA would work out of the Dleague but that is just my opinion....sounds more like 09-10 rather then next season because I understand that you would apply now be allowed in about this time next year then get your stuff in order to be ready to play the following year....

Millrats talk future with NBA

By KEVIN GRAY
Staff Sports Writer
Friday, Dec. 21, 2007

Twice this season the Boston Celtics assigned guard Gabe Pruitt to the Utah Flash of the NBA Development League, a farm system where young players can mature into potential stars.

In the future, the Celtics may be sending their minor leaguers to Manchester.

The Millrats, of the American Basketball Association, formed with a long-term goal of joining the D-League, have opened preliminary talks with the NBA about a partnership.

Four members of Manchester's front office had a teleconference with D-League President Dan Reed on Wednesday. Manchester requested an application kit and will seek league membership at the end of the 2007-08 ABA season.

How serious are the Millrats? They're even prepared to fork over at least $1,000,000 in league fees.

"The Northeast is the next area of expansion for the D-League. We do know that. We're just trying to throw our hat in the ring before it gets snapped up by someone else," Millrats General Manager Ian McCarthy said.
D21D1MILLRAT_220px (MARK BOLTON)

Manchester Millrats' Rob Sanders goes to the hoop against the Boston Blizzard on Nov. 11. The Millrats, currently playing in the ABA, wouldn't mind joining the NBA's D-League. (MARK BOLTON)

Not only have the Millrats proven to be among the best teams in the ABA, leading the North Division with a 12-2 record, they also have some of the deepest pockets. Multi-millionaire Principal Owner Jason Briggs, who worked on Wall Street for 12 years and retired at age 32, has the wherewithal to pay a seven-figure start-up fee.

"He didn't blink at that," McCarthy said.

Currently the Celtics and Utah Jazz are affiliated with the Utah Flash. The D-League, in its seventh season, consists of 14 teams throughout the central and western U.S. The NBA hopes to expand to at least 16 teams before the 2009-10 season, according to reports. Ultimately, the D-League could blossom to 30 teams with mostly local and independent ownership groups.

NBA Commissioner David Stern has already said he wants a team in Harlem -- a perfect fit for the Knicks -- as the NBA brings its minor league into the Northeast.

For the Celtics, presumably, it would make good business sense to become affiliated with a team in Manchester. The closest team to Boston is the Fort Wayne (Ind.) Mad Ants.

"A D-League team in a nearby city would be appealing," said Danny Ainge, Boston's executive director of basketball operations and general manager.

Ainge added the Celtics "have a lot of say in our affiliate," and explained affiliations are assigned on a "relatively ad hoc, case-by-case basis with input from each team."

D-League affiliations are not guaranteed unless the NBA club owns that minor-league franchise. The Spurs, for instance, own the Austin Toros.

The Millrats are hoping their proximity to Boston can someday win the Celtics sweepstakes.

"I grew up in New England," said Briggs, who grew up on Nantucket and is buying a house in Manchester. "To be a member of the Celtics organization would be a dream, but right now the only focus is on bringing an ABA championship to Manchester."

Interestingly, Shawn Smith, who orchestrated the move of the New Hampshire Fisher Cats to Manchester, has been a driving force behind the D-League's growth. The former general manager of the Fisher Cats now is the league's vice president and chief marketing officer. Smith directed questions to Reed, who could not be reached for comment last night.

The Millrats have been averaging about 300 fans at the Southern New Hampshire University Fieldhouse, where they'll host Quebec tonight at 7:05. Manchester also hosts the Boston Blizzard tomorrow at 7:05 p.m.

Lack of attendance is not a concern for a franchise that envisions playing at Verizon Wireless Arena in the future, McCarthy said.

"We decided to start the team just two months prior to the season. Our priority right now is to put a good product on the floor and have an entertaining show -- and win," he said.

Should the Millrats create a fan base comparable to the Manchester Monarchs or Manchester Wolves -- teams that play home games at the Big V -- the arena would have a prospective tenant knocking on the door.

"As with any entity, we would certainly welcome conversation," Tim Bechert, arena general manager, said.

The community-minded Briggs, who has donated more than $800,000 to charity, including locally, said the Millrats will be staying in New Hampshire long term, no matter in which league they're playing.

"This is our home. We want to be here for decades. We all love the area, and the ownership is here to stay," Briggs said.

The Millrats will embark on in-depth discussions with the NBA in March. The NBA officially has not inquired about the Manchester franchise.

"They can't really talk with us until we're no longer in the ABA. They don't want to make it look like they're poaching teams from another league," McCarthy said. "We still feel positive."

When the Millrats do make their case with NBA officials, they'll no doubt boast of Manchester's love for minor-league teams. The city has been ranked by Street & Smith's SportsBusiness Journal as the 12th-best market among the country's 242 minor-league sports markets.

And just imagine if the Celtics are sending players to Manchester.

"Right now we're trying to bring quality basketball to Manchester as a member of the American Basketball Association," Millrats coach Larry Lessett said. "We'd be honored and feel it would be a blessing to be associated with the Boston Celtics ... At the end of the ABA season, we'll pursue other possibilities and see if there would be interest from the NBA Development League."

ChumpDumper
12-22-2007, 05:36 PM
I personally would like to keep any owner that thought the ABA would work out of the Dleague but that is just my opinionThe D-League has had two of them already.

jjbballfan
12-22-2007, 07:15 PM
who are they? i believe Bakersfield is one of them.... How are those teams doing? the Rimrockers couldn't make it work....

ChumpDumper
12-22-2007, 07:23 PM
Right, it was Bakersfield and Arkansas. The RimRockers would be playing right now if the rent conditions were right in their target markets, though I'm not sure if or why they didn't consider moving into Barton Coliseum.

USBasket_EricE
12-22-2007, 10:42 PM
The Bakersfield Jam are the former ABA Long Beach Jam, right?

jjbballfan
01-17-2008, 11:21 PM
When are the franchise announcements going to start?

Right now I got the Cavaliers buying there own franchise to be placed probably in Erie PA, or less likely Youngstown

Toronto wavering on whether they should or not, somewhere in Ontario though I think Buffalo would be a great fit for them....

Toledo I have heard

Reno... there was an announcement on the local radio station saying that SW basketball LLC was going to place a franchise there but I haven't heard much since

Manchester NH has applied to the Dleague

Rumors are Cuban will buy a team and place it in Frisco

I heard a lot of buzz about this time last year of a team to be placed in Omaha but I haven't heard anything since....

There was an article in the Des Moines Register saying that there is ownership groups in Kansas City, St. Louis, and Cincinnati that were looking to see how a team did in a bigger city, don't know if there was truth or just the local paper trying to hype up the Dleague.....

ChumpDumper
01-17-2008, 11:38 PM
Dan Reed said he expected two teams to be added next season.

rams80
01-17-2008, 11:41 PM
Manchester will most likely not be let in.

jjbballfan
01-18-2008, 12:50 AM
Dan Reed said he expected two teams to be added next season.

I'm going to guess 4 but its a guess

Youngstown/Erie (Cavs affiliate wherever they place there team)
Reno
Frisco
Toledo

I would say 3 most likely and Frisco a possibility unless Cuban just bought an existing franchise or decided to wait a year or 2 which is possible....

LandRoverUT60
01-18-2008, 02:32 PM
Good News for Reno, Manchester, Toledo/Youngstown/Erie, and Frisco(?), but no St. George. :?

rams80
01-18-2008, 04:43 PM
Good News for Reno, Manchester, Toledo/Youngstown/Erie, and Frisco(?), but no St. George. :?

They won't put in a team that close to Orem.

Pounder
01-18-2008, 05:08 PM
Let me expand on rams' comment with a Boise blog entry...

5:18 p.m. -- With its win today, Austin is now 14-5. Los Angeles is 14-4.

What do the two teams have in common?

They are the only D-League franchises owned and operated by NBA teams. Austin is owned by San Antonio; The Lakers own the L.A. D-Fenders.

In both cases, the D-League teams run the same offenses and defenses as their parent clubs and use the same terminology. That makes it easy for players moving up or down.

D-League president Dan Reed said there is no single model for how teams in his league should operate. But I think NBA clubs would be wise to consider owning their affiliates or, at least, partnering very closely with them.

The logic in this is stunning in its simplicity. That's why distance is going to be a prime factor in future placements IMO, if more NBA teams grow a brain.

St. George very likely won't happen unless Orem fails. Even then, I suggest it's the wrong move.

The main reason you see me and bectond spouting off occasionally... USA is already falling behind other countries in this sport. My contention is that staying wed to the "college as minors" model will cause NBA teams to fall behind as well. In the rest of the world, the coaches are teaching the players in the youth system AND the kids have access to the better players in order to better their games that way. College coaching is 90% recruiting, and since the NCAA has strict limitations on the time spent in practice, they are more focused on existing skills than on teaching new ones. The only other countries who use a college model: Canada and South Korea. You be the judge.

jjbballfan
01-18-2008, 07:08 PM
First of all I am sick of this distance bs....... most AAA clubs in baseball aren't close and a lot of times when a player is called up from AAA he will play as soon as he comes up, something that isn't a big deal in basketball..... I think rather then having NBA clubs own teams because I think there is some issues there that aren't yet figured out I think they should lease them like baseball does so the team is locally owned (best way for minor league clubs to be owned) but the parent club is in charge of coaching and the style they play.... This can't happen until of course we add a few more teams.... Boston has sent 2 players to Utah and hasn't complained, other teams have sent players a fair distance and haven't complained then there are some teams (the Kincks) that would complain if they had to send a guy across town.....

Pounder
01-18-2008, 07:23 PM
To be in the here and now for the moment... the NBA isn't exactly pulling big market shares outside current markets. The distance issue is front and center because the fans have shown their cards.

Baseball's fortune is that USA and Japan are the only "rich" countries that have strong professional leagues. MLB teams don't have to compete with others for talent. I doubt Europe will ever change the dynamic there, frankly. That's your apples.

Basketball is getting pretty big everywhere else. Could Euro clubs start attracting top-flight American talent? Probably not in 10 years, but at the rate the economy is going, who knows? I'd say, by the way things are going, them's your oranges.

HKF
01-25-2008, 04:10 PM
Cedar Rapids possibly getting a D-League team as well? I just read this at the Sporting News and it's from someone who seems real dialed in to Iowa sports, so I wonder if this is accurate. If it is, it stands to reason that Omaha is probably not going to happen now and they make shoot instead for Topeka, KS.

I have great news for Cedar Rapids Sports Fans: The will get an NBA D-League Franchise Next Fall to play against the Iowa Energy. I hope to at least say if I had the chance to name the Team, I would call it the Cedar Rapids Railroaders because we have plenty of Trains in the Area or my 2nd Choice would be the Cedar Rapids Mechanics as a tribute to the Blue Collar Attitude Cedar Rapids still exhibits and I hope that it would be a tribute to our local racers, current and former such as Johnny Spaw, Brad Loney and Landon Cassill,
because If I had to select the Colors for the Home Colors, I would prefer a Jefferson Blue (The Actual Color is Columbia Blue), Carolina Blue, Drake Relays Blue, or the Old Golden State Gold and try to mimic "The City" headline from their Old Jerseys and instead of a Cable Car in the Center and the Number, I'd hope it would be a Coal Powered Train Front and the Number right in the Center would be my alternate choice. Either way it would be a fun uniform.

bectond
01-25-2008, 06:00 PM
The rumor mill is now out of control:
Harford
Portland (ME)
Manchester (NH) - I just can't believe this one
Harlem (NY)
Teaneck (NJ)
Erie (PA)
Norfolk (Va)
Youngstown (OH)
Toledo
Hamilton (ON)
Omaha
Reno
Frisco (TX)
Laredo (TX)
Kansas City - I heard this a few years back
Cedar Rapids - This has not been confirmed.

That is 16 teams, plus the Flames were moving to Fort Meyers and the Rimrockers are..well I don't know what the hell the Rimrockers are doing.
So that is 18 rumored clubs.

Could the D-League end up with more than 30 franchises?

rams80
01-25-2008, 07:02 PM
IMO some/many of those markets are competing for the same franchise, so I doubt it.

jjbballfan
01-25-2008, 08:15 PM
I think in 10 years there may be as many as 40 teams (30 affiliated and all the players owned by the parent club, plus 10 free agent or a veterans league) I have talked to people from the Dleague and they said that they don't want to stop at 30 if they don't have to but the main goal is to get 30 first then we can think about adding more...... Cedar Rapids/Cedar Falls/Waterloo I have heard those 3 towns with Dleague before I ever heard of Des Moines getting one, so I think it is quite possible that they are getting one....

I do think these expansion teams will happen
Cleveland- wherever they plan to put a Dleague team
Frisco- Dallas
Reno- SW owned but the Kings have there fingers in it
Cedar Rapids- I heard other Iowa cities before Des Moines, maybe Sioux City next?
I then also think that there will be atleast one northeast team whether its Maine, Pennslyvaina, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire I don't know......

ChumpDumper
01-25-2008, 09:35 PM
30 affiliated and all the players owned by the parent club, plus 10 free agent or a veterans leagueMy hope is some combination of the CBA and PBL teams would make up the teams over the initial 30 and serve as a feeder for the D-League.

bectond
01-25-2008, 10:20 PM
My hope is some combination of the CBA and PBL teams would make up the teams over the initial 30 and serve as a feeder for the D-League.

If the D-League expands to 30+ teams some smaller markets that are not geographically close to NBA markets could secure teams. I don't think the D-League should have tiers. The indy franchises should be allowed to battle the affiliate franchises. More teams means less travel cost.

ChumpDumper
01-25-2008, 10:34 PM
Maybe. I just think there is a use for one level below the D-League. I guess if we get that many teams without raising player compensation, the D-League will be filled by all the players who would have been/should be in the lower leagues anyway.

jjbballfan
01-25-2008, 11:52 PM
My idea would be 30 teams would be affiliated in a given year... like baseball the parent clubs will be in charge of the agreements with the minor league club... The part of having 40 teams is so in case a team looses out they can go independent for a year or 2 and try to become affiliated.... The problem with having just 30 teams would be teams would be moving to get to the best markets and there wouldn't be an incentive to try as hard as possible in all ways, not just to make money but to put on a show that keeps the parent club happy.....

bectond
01-26-2008, 08:27 AM
The D-League is different from MLB in that the parent club only controls the rights of two players on the D-L team. The other players on affiliated teams are free agents that can sign with any team willing to sign them.

I think the NBA should start the season with 13 man rosters then expand to 15 player in mid-January after the showcase. And allow teams to garage rookie free agents, high school players and 2nd round picks in the D-League without giving up an NBA roster spot to do so. More players would elect to stay stateside if they knew they had a chance to grab one of 60 open NBA slots each year.
For instance, (if the union would agree) NBA teams could sign players to a two year developmental contract (2yr - 300,000). After two years the parent team would have to sign the player to a one year NBA contract or waive his rights. (after the 1st NBA yr the player would be granted Bird rights, since he was with the team for three years; 2 D-L & 1 NBA yr).

In September, the D-League could hold a supplemental draft for players that elected not to attend college. After a year as a free agent in the D-League those players would be eligible to be drafted by NBA clubs. If the player went un-drafted; he could sign a three-year High school developmental deal with an NBA club (2yr 150,000).After two years the parent team would have to sign the player to a one year NBA contract or waive his rights; If no NBA team signs him to a H.S. deal- he'd just return to the D-league as a regular free agent.

The affiliated teams would be full of final training camp cuts, assignment players, developmental players and ex-high schoolers.
The indy teams would be full of ex-college players, second chance guys and career minor leaguers.

If the CBA and the D-League could work out an agreement, CBA players could replace the D-League players that moved on to the NBA. The CBA could start the season with 11 man rosters than drop to 7 man rosters in late Jan due to the D-League call-ups. Most CBA teams play with 7 man rosters late in the year anyway so nothing would change in this regard. CBA owners could make $30,000 per player (or $120,000 per season)if the NBA agrees to pay buy-outs. An infusion of mid-season cash each year could keep the cockroach league alive.

Ken, Steelheads fan
01-26-2008, 01:26 PM
The rumor mill is now out of control:
Harford
Portland (ME)
Manchester (NH) - I just can't believe this one
Harlem (NY)
Teaneck (NJ)
Erie (PA)
Norfolk (Va)
Youngstown (OH)
Toledo
Hamilton (ON)
Omaha
Reno
Frisco (TX)
Laredo (TX)
Kansas City - I heard this a few years back
Cedar Rapids - This has not been confirmed.

That is 16 teams, plus the Flames were moving to Fort Meyers and the Rimrockers are..well I don't know what the hell the Rimrockers are doing.
So that is 18 rumored clubs.

Could the D-League end up with more than 30 franchises?

bectond,
Yeah, I'm still lurking around. 8)

No! The D-League will not end-up with more than 30 franchises (playing at one time). The American public isn't the least bit interested and teams will fold left and right for that reason. The D-League MAY eventually end-up with 30 teams playing for scouts in NBA practice facilities. THAT I'll grant you. The NBA isn't going to want to lose a lot of money on the D-League either.

BTW, how are Krunk ticket sales going with those megachurches down in Atlanta? :rolleyes:

bectond
01-28-2008, 05:44 PM
bectond,

BTW, how are Krunk ticket sales going with those megachurches down in Atlanta? :rolleyes:

Please, don't bring up the Krunk outside of the CBA forum, just mentioning them brings down the quality of the meassage board.

jjbballfan
01-28-2008, 09:20 PM
I think that to have 30 or more teams a few things will have to be done...

1. first you will have to raise pay and lower assignment pay.... What I mean is if a rookie is assigned he shouldn't be costing the parent club the $400,000 or whatever, and $18,000 just isn't much to get people to tryout

2. I think they need to try to control Europe.... I've suggested that to gain draft rights from a non university you would have to play in the Dleague for 1 year.. (high school, Europe, Africa, whatever/wherever)

3. Make it so you can control the rights in the Dleague without effecting your roster, you can currently do this with Europe..

I think if you do those 3 things it would help a lot with player quality and if the quality is good you can find as many markets that will work.....

jjbballfan
01-30-2008, 12:16 AM
I have some updates....

Cedar Rapids..... Should know the fate of this by next week, apparently it is the RimRockers franchise that will be co-owned between the current Rimrocker owner and 5 locals

Erie/Youngstown..... Don't know much other then Erie's hockey team is throwing a fit and as far as I understand the Cavs have not heard whether or not they will have the operating rights to the arena in Youngstown (in other words WHO KNOWS)

Reno NV....... SouthWest basketball wants to put a team there probably the Fort Worth franchise for specifics.... they would play in the Reno Events Center but there are questions of whether they would be ready in time for 08-09 or if 09-10 would be a better fit

Toledo...... The Mudhens are exploring the possibility of putting a franchise in Toledo but it would most likely be in 09-10 to go in the new arena in town.....

Frisco...... WHO KNOWS from my research there are plans to put a team there whether its owned by the Mavs or not nobody knows my understanding is if its owned by the Mavs it will happen sooner if not owned it would happen later... 08-09 if owned by Mavs, 09-10 if owned by other people

Ft. Worth.... somebody mentioned the Flame moving there, I haven't seen anything about this.....

Omaha.... doesn't look good, don't know why I think it would work but what do I know?

Harlem...... Other then Stern talking I haven't seen anything about this, from what I understand it would be 09-10 at the earliest

Boston affiliate.... from what I have read, Manchester NH, and Portland ME have both applied with the understanding that they will become the Boston affiliate... The Dleague plans on looking at Hartford CT and a few cities in Massacussetts before making a decision....

Kansas City, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Buffalo..... All of these cities are big enough that a Dleague team wouldn't bring much attention so I think if a franchise was to come up in one of those 4 cities or a city like it we would find out when the Dleague announced it......

so with what I have here are my updated odds....

Cavs.... 90% (08-09) 100% (09-10)
Reno NV..... 85% (08-09) 95% (09-10)
Toledo OH.... 10% (08-09) 85% (09-10)
Frisco TX...... 50% (08-09) 90% (09-19)
Omaha NE...... 5% (08-09) 50% (09-10)
Harlem NY...... 2% (08-09) 50% (09-10)
Cedar Rapids.....85% (08-09) 10% (09-10)
Boston affiliate locally owned..... 90% (08-09) 100% (09-10)

jjbballfan
03-01-2008, 10:29 PM
Updates.....

Reno- In SW basketball L.L.C. owned.... Reno Events Center

I've heard 1 more expansion team and I have heard 3 more expansion teams but here is what I have.

Cavs- Erie- sounds like they aren't having the best of luck, the hockey team is saying that there lease allows them to have the best dates, there is now an Indoor Football team there in some crapshoot league and it just looks like a mess, maybe they should just go with Youngstown but I haven't heard anything accept for the 2 articles in each others local newspapers...

Raptors- they are considering 2 Canadian cities (Hamilton and Oshawa) the ABA team is on hold in Hamilton until the Raptors choose to start in 08-09 or more likely the 09-10 season

Toledo- still 09-10 when the arena is done

Cedar Rapids- No updates hear either side.... an article in late January said the ownership group expected a response from the NBA in early February and i havn't seen an article either way...

Portland, Harford, Manchester- all want to be affiliated with Boston, but from my understanding is that if it would happen 1 one be picked at it would be in 09-10

Frisco- I think there remodeling the arena or something sounds like 09-10

Here are 6 cities nobody is talking about well 5 nobody and 1 I here whispers about, and I think all would welcome and support Dleague ball very well

Rapid City SD (pop. 60,000), RC Rushmore Plaza Civic Center 2 arenas 8,500 and being built as we speak 5,700 with skyboxes
Sioux City IA (pop. 85,000) Tyson Events Center/Gateway Arena 6,735
Colorado Springs CO (pop. 369,000) World Arena 8,100
Casper WY (pop.66,000) Casper Events Center 8,400
Wichita Falls TX (pop. 99,000) Key Yeager Colliseum 10,000

and then there is Omaha NE I wouldn't put a franchise in Qwest Center with Creighton and other city league stuff you would have hard fights for good dates and I would either go with the Omaha Civic Autotorium 9,300 or go across the river to Council Bluffs and play in the Mid America Center 7,000

HKF
03-14-2008, 04:55 PM
The D-League expands to Erie, PA and will be the Cavaliers affiliate for sure solely. This brings the D-League up to 16 teams and possibly 17, if Cedar Rapids and Crain can get the dates squared away. So let's just say there are 17 teams next year. I think the divisions would look like this.

Southwest
Rio Grande Valley Vipers
Austin Toros
Tulsa 66ers
Albuquerque Thunderbirds
Colorado 14ers

Central
Ft. Wayne Mad Ants
Iowa Energy
Cedar Rapids *relocated Arkansas Rim Rockers*
Dakota Wizards
Sioux Falls SkyForce
Erie *expansion*

West
Bakersfield Jam
Reno *expansion*
Anaheim Arsenal
Los Angeles D-Fenders
Idaho Stampede
Utah Flash


http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080314/BASKETBALL04/959736691/-1/SPORTS40
http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080314/BASKETBALL04/803140366

This league is shaping up nicely. 09-10 will be about East expansion and then the last expansion will be in the Southeast.

logoguru
03-15-2008, 01:09 PM
Florida was waiting for an arena to be built somewhere I can't remember where.

Hartford might lose the Boston affiliate (my greatest fear would be to Springfield), but the Nets or Philly would work as well and Knicks if Harlem never gets off the ground (MSG still has the Wolf Pack.)
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jjbballfan
03-17-2008, 02:23 AM
Is Erie going to be owned by the Cavs or is it going to be like the Utah situation where they aren't owned but are advised so to say by the parent club?

LandRoverUT60
03-18-2008, 01:02 PM
What are the chances of a team being moved after this year? I know Tulsa's moving to another arena, but that they're staying in the Tulsa area. Is there anything else?

Minor League Man
03-18-2008, 01:53 PM
What are the chances of a team being moved after this year? I know Tulsa's moving to another arena, but that they're staying in the Tulsa area. Is there anything else?
I think the most likely to move would be Bakersfield. They haven't been drawing too much, have been in the BASEMENT of the D-League for their whole existence, and the closest NBA team (the Sacramento Kings) will probably switch to the Reno team next year.

Anybody else see that happening?

jjbballfan
03-18-2008, 03:39 PM
http://www.nba.com/dleague/erie/

its official however to the surprise of at least myself it is not owned by the Cavs which had been previously speculated....

As far as Bakersfield moving its tough to say, talk about a jammed arena they play in one, college basketball, themselves, and hockey along with arena football and i'm sure they probably get there fair share of events at the arena also. The question would be where would you move Bakersfield? Las Vegas? St. George, Rapid City, Omaha, Suburban Seattle?

USBasket_EricE
03-18-2008, 08:23 PM
St. George might be a good location, since the city really isn't located near any NBA cities. The Jam would still be near the west coast and could possibly start up a Utah rivalry with Orem. I don't know how well Vegas would work out, but I'd like the idea. Rapid City would be nice, but for whatever reason, their former team didn't last. Omaha maybe. But I doubt they'd go to Seattle. Then again who knows. Broomfield hasn't done too bad being located near the NBA city of Denver.

jjbballfan
03-18-2008, 10:31 PM
St. George might be a good location, since the city really isn't located near any NBA cities. The Jam would still be near the west coast and could possibly start up a Utah rivalry with Orem. I don't know how well Vegas would work out, but I'd like the idea. Rapid City would be nice, but for whatever reason, their former team didn't last. Omaha maybe. But I doubt they'd go to Seattle. Then again who knows. Broomfield hasn't done too bad being located near the NBA city of Denver.

St. George is a great place the only thing is the arena is on the college campus so concessions would be a problem and also dates.... Rapid City as a community is great the problems with franchices is with there owners, there best owner is the one that moved the team after averaging close to 6,000 a night for a better arena deal..... And that was there best owner.....

logoguru
03-19-2008, 05:24 AM
Vegas isnt bad. The only problem is that Goodman sees them as a pro city...sooner than later (Hornets). Not sure if that is going to happen. It would be a great Phoenix affiliate.
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