St. Louis Hockey??

[yeahuhhuh]

What are the rumors out there for getting minor league hockey back in St. Louis? I miss the Otters. The Bandits (NAHL) were great to watch this year, but they just didn't have enough home dates.

[killer kaminski]

I hear good things for a minor league hockey return to the Family Arena.

[yeahuhhuh]

* Only Partially Excited *

Okay...thanks...do you have any details? What league? When can we expect an announcement?

[killer kaminski]

I would expect some announcements from the UHL very soon now that the playoffs are over. As to what will shake out, only the league office knows, but I'm optimistic.

[radiodavel]

heard that the Rockford IceHogs franchise is being transfered to Missouri, does anyone have a good contact in that area, this came from a very reliable person. Which paper use to cover the River Otters, that is a good place to start...

[killer kaminski]

heard that the Rockford IceHogs franchise is being transfered to Missouri, does anyone have a good contact in that area, this came from a very reliable person. Which paper use to cover the River Otters, that is a good place to start...
That's what I keep hearing from different people here, so we'll see, hopefully this week. The paper here doesn't care about hockey, it's all Cardinals all the time, even the Blues take a back seat.

[freddypuck]

The UHL will cease to exist as it is now known.

Any team moving to Missouri will be part of the CHL if anything. If I remember correctly the main problem with Missouri was the same as any of the other uestionable markets; limited entertainment dollars available and too many teams fighting for the dollar and limited attendance.

Not a good hockey market.

[killer kaminski]

Not a good hockey market? Well I live here and the St. Louis Blues have been here for 40 years and the River Otters had a 7 year run in the middle of an NHL town, so I disagree. I read ITB too, there's a lot of rumors swirling, maybe some are true and some are not, but one thing is for sure people that truly know what will happen don't post it on message boards.

[yeahuhhuh]

I agree that there are limited entertainment dollars in St. Louis, and maybe the market is kind of saturated with major/minor/semi-professional events. But I have to disagree with the notion that St. Louis is not a good hockey town. I lived in the Boston area for years before moving to St. Louis and I tell you what...I was shocked when I moved here. St. Louis embraces hockey at all levels. High school hockey is huge around here. The Bandits and Jr. Blues (Jr. A - Tier 2 and Jr. B respectively) play great hockey (both won their respective championships this year). The Frozen Four was a huge success a couple of months ago, and while the Blues have been in rebuilding mode since the lockout year you can still feel the passion from the faithfuls in the rafters at Scottrade. St. Louis is definitely a Hockey Town!

[freddypuck]

Definitely not a good hockey market for UHL level play, check with each of the owners that have been there. THey don't make any money. Sure the Blues are there, but they are not super profitable either.

Do the homework, ask Mike Shanahan how much he lost on the RIver Otters, how about the previous owners who had to have the league take over to make it survive. There just aren't enough fans to cover the high cost of doing the business of hockey. Cause when it comes down to it, to the owners, its just another business and they will only lose so much before they move on. Workers Comp is 100K a year, salaries are 300K plus, office slaries, rent, travel.... takes about 2 million to run a good team. that is a lot of fannies and corporate dollars to collect just to break even

I am not saying that there are no hockey fans in the St. Louis area, but there are not enough die hard fans to sustain a minor league team. Seven years of losses proves that.

I grew up outside of Boston and can tell you that there is no other hockey town like Beantown but even just outside of Boston, like in Lowell or Worcester, the teams struggle to draw enough fans. They are up against Boston Bruins, Providence Bruins, BC, BU, Harvard, North Eastern and the Manchester Monarchs. same problem only so many dollars to spread around and when given the choice people attend the best level of play they can watch. I'd rather watch a BC vs. BU game any day over the best UHL or AHL game.

[Pounder]

I've seen more than one instance where people think "if the college (or even high school) teams are big here, then SURELY the pros will work." It usually doesn't. Fans of the college- or HS- remain fans of the school more than the sport.

St. Louis has a pro team with its share of struggles and minor triumphs. It's quite likely smarter to leave it at that.

[killer kaminski]

Like I said freddypuck, I live here, and your generalized statements and "info" you can pick up on Wikipedia on hockey's history in the St. Louis area are way off. It just amazes me how someone can see something in print and take it for gospel, like the sheep who believe anything on ITB.

[freddypuck]

Killer,

Lets start by clearing up a few items. First, I don't need to use wiki or any other web source to know my hockey history. Second, I get my information from people who work in the leagues. Maybe thats because I spent more than 3 years working with most of them at different capacities. Third, it doesn't take a genius to see that when a team loses money for 7 years in a row, its an indication of " a bad market for business".


Now on to the reality. The league is on its way out whether you ou anyone else believes that. Its a hard fact. The UHL will become part of the CHL. The bad business practices that Brosal brought with him to the league when he started, have finally caught up to the league. Years of half-assed ownerships, bad market selections, and league wide deals gone bad have now caused the league to implode.

The people who paid and will pay the highest price are the die hard fans who even after getting screwed by one owner have continued to support a team and the taxpayers and local businesses that contribute to supporting the team.

[radiodavel]

sorry we all forgot that you know everything about hockey, is your last name Franke or Lisman?

[freddypuck]

Hahaha....ROFL

Never professed to know everything hockey. I do know the business of hockey. Big difference, some people know stats, players, etc... I know budgets, expenses, operations, etc...

Look back on my posts, I have been very close on what I said was going to happen, even back when you said I was just spreading rumors. I am still talking to the same people that I always have and they have told me that Chicago is closing it operations and that the league is in discussions with the CHL to merge the UHL into the CHL over the next 2 years.

Their site is down with a temp page, they cancelled their Detroit meetings this year. Think about it how much maintenance does a site need that can't be done while its live. You would make your changes on the offline version of the site and then push it to the live site... Why no new commissioner? Don't need one if the Commish of the CHL was going to be running things.

Come on... You all can't see the writing on the wall?

and if I knew everything hockey, my last name would have to be Melrose, No?:mrgreen:

[Pounder]

Of course, in looking back on the "Spin" thread, you had a merger with the E imminent and the Hounds still haven't folded. The real advice is to ensure that you mention that things are in negotiation, and anything is possible in negotiations.

[BreakersFan]

Hahaha....ROFL

I am still talking to the same people that I always have and they have told me that Chicago is closing it operations.....

mrgreen:

Conversations within your own head don't count.....:D

[killer kaminski]

Third, it doesn't take a genius to see that when a team loses money for 7 years in a row, its an indication of " a bad market for business".
You could have stopped right there with your rambling incoherent post, this statement alone tells me you don't know what you're talking about. Go back to ITB and eat up all the bilge those morons spew over there about their "inside sources" and made up "information", good or bad I'll just wait for an official announcement.:-D

[Battra]

Freddypuck...out of curiousity, where did you find the financial statements on the River Otters...all 7 fiscal years? I find it a bit hard to believe that the Otters were losing money when they were getting 8K most Saturday nights.

Also...so say St. Louis isn't a hockey town is ridiculous at best. We've had pro-hockey in St. Louis for over 70 years. It started with the St. Louis Eagles, the former Ottawa Senators.

I'm sure Mike Shanahan Jr lost A LOT of money on the Otters. I know what he had to pay in provisions in the lease. Why else would he have tried to BUY the rink to keep the team there?

Anyway...regardless...a merger between the C and the U would be great, providing they could make some changes to make it less developmental and give the UHL a teams a pass on the business practices of the CHL.

However...I don't see why the CHL BoG would give a pass on the arenas, so I really can't see that happening. Of course I've been wrong before.

I still hold out hope that I'll return to the Family Arena this fall.

[qcmallards5]

Here is a link that has UHL attendance by team all the way back to 1995:
http://www.mib.org/~lennier/hockey/leagueatt.cgi

Here is the Otters' per game attendance by season:
1999-00: 6,554
2000-01: 4,112
2001-02: 3,263
2002-03: 3,565
2003-04: 2,531
2004-05: 2,882
2005-06: 2,447

The last 3 years had to hurt the worst. Until then, they were averaging at or above where the rest of the UHL typically averages.

And yes, I need a new login name.

[Battra]

There was also a SIGNIFICANT drop off in advertising EACH season. In the 04-05 year, there was NOTHING. I only knew the team was playing as I'd been a fan before.

For all the negative things said about the Doc, he did right by us, we may be the only ones though. Then in the first year without him, the team was horrible and we had terrible management. Then Mike Shanhan Jr saved the team, then he hired Frank Buonomo as GM and he just ruined everything.