Dismal Pro Sports Towns

[Shootmaster_44]

With the rise of the minor leagues in all professional sports, teams come and go. Which city seems to have a bad track record for having teams, but leagues continually place teams there?

I would vote for Saskatoon.
Baseball
Canadian Baseball League I - never got off the ground - proposed opening day 1992
Spirit - 1992 - never played a game

North Central League - 1994
Riot

Prairie League - 1995 - 1997
Riot - 1995
Smokin' Guns - 1996
Stallions - 1997

Canadian Baseball League II - proposed opening day 2003 - delayed until 2004 - folded mid-season
Yellow Jackets - 2003 - never played a game
Legends - 2004 - folded mid-season

Basketball
World Basketball League - 1990 - 1992 - folded mid-season
Saskatchewan Storm - 1990 - 1992 - folded mid-season

National Basketball League - 1993 - 1994 - folded mid-season
Slam - 1993 - 1994 - folded mid-season

International Basketball Association - 2000 - 2001 - merged with the CBA
Saskatchewan Hawks - 2000- arrived mid-season - 2001

Continental Basketball Association - 2001 - 2002
Saskatchewan Hawks - 2001 - 2002

Hockey
National Hockey League - 1983
Saskatchewan Blues - never played a game - 1983 - NHL blocked the move saying Saskatoon was too small for an NHL franchise

Global Hockey League/Continental Hockey Association - never got off the ground - proposed faceoff 1991 - resecheduled for 1992
Saskatchewan Force - never played a game - originally to begin play in 1991 then pushed back until 1992

National Hockey League - 1992
Saskatoon applied for an expansion franchise and was turned down as we were still considered too small

Roller Hockey International - 1996
Edmonton Sled Dogs - 1996 - played two regular season home games here in 1995 and rumours were abound that they would move here for the 1996 season - never happened

International Hockey League - 2000
San Francisco Spiders - there were rumors that the dormant IHL franchise would move here for the 2000-01 season - never happened

Federal Hockey League - proposed opening day 2003 - now scheduled for 2004 - remains to be seen
Warriors - see above

Football
Canadian Indoor Football League - never got off the ground - proposed kickoff was 2001
Saskatoon - was named as a target city by the league for charter franchises

North American Indoor Football League - proposed kickoff is 2005
Swarm - talks have taken place with SaskPlace regarding a lease agreement, but that is all Ken Wood SaskPlace's GM would tell me

Canadian Football League - on going
Saskatoon is named as a pipe-dream city for expansion when reporters ask governors what cities should have CFL teams eventually, when this will occur likely when hell-freezes over

Soccer
North American Indoor Soccer League - early 2000's
Edmonton Drillers - early 2000's there was talk that the struggling Edmonton franchise would become one of a few things a) a shared franchise between Edmonton and Saskatoon which would under-go a name change to reflect this or b) move completely to Saskatoon and change its name - needless to say this didn't happen

Golf
CPGA - early 1990's
Willows G&CC - had a Canadian Tour stop for a while but dwindling attendance by fans and players caused it to be dropped by the tour - they even tried to boost attendance by having Grant Fuhr play but his poor golfing ability wasn't much of a draw

The only team that seems to draw consistently here is the WHL's Blades and apparently they are one of the teams that might move to Rexall Place and become Edmonton's newest attempt at junior hockey.

Anyone have a worse city for failed pro sports then Saskatoon?

[BruceB]

That's a pretty impressive list you've got there for Saskatoon, but I'd have to say Reno, Nevada is right up there. It would take entirely too long to research a list such as you've provided, but I can't recall ANY team ever even coming closde to succeeding in Reno. Victoria, BC in Canada has to be right up there (or down there), too.

[Pounder]

At the least, didn't Victoria Vistas at least survive to the end of the Canadian Soccer League, or is that another travel-induced hallucination on my part?

Saskatoon is kind of forced to settle for stuff... but at least the Blades were apparently worth keeping around instead of trading them in for an AHL club- yeah, yeah, the WHL may be professional in the eyes of the NCAA, I know what you're going to say. Reno is owned by the casinos first and University of Nevada second; I'm kind of curious as to the supposedly continuing efforts to build a AAA ballpark in Sparks.

[BruceB]

Ahhh, the Vistas. I'd forgotten about them. The impression I've gotten of Victoria when I've been there is that more people are into lawn bowling than the more traditional sports, like hockey. Here's a fairly large Canadian city with only a Tier II Junior team to show for it. They had a semipro baseball team called the Royals last summer, but I don't know if they'll be back for another go-round.

I don't know what's up with a new ballpark in Reno. They could sure use one. I went a a game at Moana Park years ago, and could not believe that a professional baseball team played there. Neither could anyone else, apparently, because there ain't nothin' there now. I do know that a potential onwership group from Reno wanted to buy Tacoma's PCL team and move it there about three years ago, but they didn't have a place to put them. Tacoma has ballpark problems of their own, for that matter. Cheney Stadium is a 1960 facility in a 2005 Class AAA world.

Sports teams in Reno are just another case of people looking at population figures in their World Almanac and thinking, "Why, there's so many residents, how can a team fail?" That kind of mentality is the type we see here on the OSC boards occasionally clamoring for a Northern League baseball team in Detroit because it's such a BIG city, and Tiger Stadium is just sitting there EMPTY. Might as well place a team in Disneyland, because that's where this type of fantasy belongs. :wink:

[Pounder]

Tacoma is still for sale, they can't get anything done with Cheney (the city is focusing on improvements to the Tacoma Dome, and not very well at that), and therefore they're just waiting for Reno to get their act together. Just trying to find out if the new ballpark proposal in Reno has advanced any further.

Victoria's new ECHL team drew pretty close to capacity in Bear Mountain Arena (about 2,700 or so), which wasn't supposed to be their home this year. [DEEP BREATH] Save-On Foods Memorial Centre [/EXHALE] will theoretically be ready for the World Curling Championships in April, and for the Salmon Kings this fall...

...that's if the WHL doesn't muscle in on Victoria first. They probably won't, but it's already gone as far as arena management having to say that they weren't interested. You can tell from the SK discussion board on their website that not everyone buys into the ECHL yet.

[BruceB]

Yeah, they thought there was a buyer for the team in Tacoma last year, but apparently the deal fell through. They really do need to upgrade Cheney, but the Tacoma City Council is focusing on "improving" the Tacoma Dome (as you mentioned) by reconfiguring it as just another arena. Meanwhile, 40 miles up the road in Seattle, people running the KeyArena are probably rubbing their hands in anticipation of the prospect of Tacomans ruining the one thing they had over Seattle: A true domed stadium. What good will a standard-issue arena in Tacoma do when a better facility in a larger city awaits renters?

Victoria is a terrible fit for the ECHL. The Salmon Kings will probably draw pretty well next winter due to the novelty of the brand-new We'll-Name-It-After-Anything Memorial Centre, but once the novelty wears off, player salaries and travel expenses will kill them off. Road trips to Macon, Georgia are a lot more expensive than a drive up to Nanaimo or a ferry boat ride to Vancouver or Powell River, you know? The WHL would actually be much better for Victoria in terms of expenses. Plus, they'd get to go to Saskatoon!

[Pounder]

Key Arena is a good NBA facility... and you know darn well that it was designed to not handle hockey well. However, do you realize the Sonics are pushing for a new building?

Key has been taking business from Tacoma lately (the business the T-Dome covets: CONCERTS). Add the trend for new outdoor amphitheaters everywhere, and the T-Dome has become outdated. They don't have the luxury suites or much close-in seating for an anchor sports team, and there just aren't that many big concerts anymore. Being "just another arena" would be an improvement at this point.

[BruceB]

You're right to a degree. The Sonics are looking for a new arena for the same reason George Shinn moved the Charlotte Hornets out of a 22,000-seat arena in a basketball hotbed to play in New Orleans: Luxury boxes. Makes you wonder who can afford to go to NBA games anymore.

The outdoor venues are hurting ALL the arenas for concert bookings, not just the T-Dome, but that's just a seasonal thing. Recent unusual weather notwithstanding, the outdoor concert season in the Seattle area is historically very short because of the rain. Why do you think I moved to Wenatchee? Well, besides cost of living, quality of life, no traffic, etc.

The thing that makes the T-Dome unique is its versatility, and reconfiguring it as an arena would eliminate some of the things it CAN do. Yes, the lack of an anchor tenant does hurt, but that's more a product of the sports market than the building's shortcomings. It IS a lousy hockey facility because the seating rake isn't nearly steep enough to watch a ground-bound game like that, but Tacoma was always a lousy hockey town anyway. A CBA team would've been a much better fit for the building and city both.

I've never understood why they haven't had more football there, though. It's a great place to watch a game. I know when they were selling the bond measure to the public, the T-Dome proponents were extolling the virtues of bringing the UPS-PLU game indoors as well as the frozen prep fans at Stadium Bowl and Lincoln Bowl. And the Bacon Bowl, of course. Now, it's just two weekends of Gridiron Classic prep football, and that's it.

Ahhh, well, what do you do? :(

[Shootmaster_44]

The WHL would actually be much better for Victoria in terms of expenses. Plus, they'd get to go to Saskatoon!

That could be but didn't the Prince George Cougars once play in Victoria? There must've been a reason they were moved. Probably because the large portion of Victoria's population is running away from winter and doesn't want to watch hockey. I dunno the real reason but my guess is that hockey just doesn't sell in Victoria. Plus isn't it nearly impossible to take a team bus on one of BC's ferries? That would mean the teams would have to leave their bus somewhere in Vancouver, take the ferry or fly to Victoria, charter another bus and stuff while in Victoria and then reverse it? That would make Victoria very expensive for WHL teams, who run on shoestring budgets as it is.

[BruceB]

I think every point you made has some validity, but you have to think it's still a lot less costly to send a busload of "unpaid" teens on a ferry trip to the mainland for a road trip as opposed to sending paid adults on a plane to any number of towns east of the Mississippi River. I used to work for a Junior A team in Bellingham, and I don't remember any particular hassles about taking the ferry to Vancouver Island from Tsawwassen to play Nanaimo or Victoria (it was TWO trips to get to Powell River), but it could be fairly expensive. Things might be a little tighter now security-wise since 9/11 (do I ever have a story about Wenatchee's college summer baseball team's trip to Vic last year!), but overall, once you get over the border, things move a little easier.

I agree that a Victoria team might well be the most-costly operation in the WHL in terms of travel costs, but the costs pale in comparison to being part of a continent-wide professional league. In either case, it gets back to my original point about Victoria: Lousy sports town. It's pretty much all about government and tourism up there.

[Pounder]

Yes, Prince George was the destination of the Victoria Cougars.

The Cougars had a run of bad seasons in the ancient Memorial Arena.

I won't even speculate on the long-term prospects of ECHL there.

[patmc16]

Sports teams in Reno are just another case of people looking at population figures in their World Almanac and thinking, "Why, there's so many residents, how can a team fail?" That kind of mentality is the type we see here on the OSC boards occasionally clamoring for a Northern League baseball team in Detroit because it's such a BIG city, and Tiger Stadium is just sitting there EMPTY. Might as well place a team in Disneyland, because that's where this type of fantasy belongs. :wink:

What the hell are you talking about? None of us who have ever posted on OSC about the Northern League in Detroit has ever said they should just because Detroit is a "big city". Also, none of us have ever suggested using Tiger Stadium for a baseball team. I actually mentioned it as a potential CFL site. Putting a baseball team other than the Tigers in Tiger Stadium would be sacrilege to baseball fans here. Please read the posts before you make comments on their content.

BTW, they did put a team in Disney World. The Orlando Rays played there before moving to Montgomery, and the Atlanta Braves hold spring training there.

[BruceB]

I haven't been a regular on the site since 2001, so I was referring to the posts from that time in which people were plugging an NL team because the Tigers were moving to Comerica Park...a nice enough facility, if not a power hitter's park.

Detroit in the CFL? Why not? They can't do any worse than San Antonio. Or Shreveport. Or Las Vegas. Or Sacramento...