The truth about, CG,CS, and the NIFL

[Magic]

PART 1 (OF 4)

I have had it with all the lies and promises from CG and now CS. Im ticked and I want revenge for players, coaches and everybody who's being hurt by these two cronies.
First off to shed some light on this NIFL situation, this league isn't about the players, teams and providing good entertainment. This league, or should I say the new expansion (CG teams) teams are all about CG. He is such a con-artist. The league (CG and CS) hire coaches and give them the duty of starting a team with only a TEAMNAME@net. The GM/coaches arent given any money to advertise for start-up, but CG got on conference calls and literally cursed these guys out because they weren't sending any money from try-outs in directly to him.
I can vouch for a certain team/coach, where this coach was hired on and when the coach went to talk to his venue, they were going to cancel the contract because CG was lying and dodging them. This coach found a new venue, worked out all the logistics and CG went to CS and tried to take credit for finding this venue. The same coach was offered a radio and TV show for that team and CG went in behind this guys back and tried to take this guys deal for his personal use. The company told CG that the show wasn't about him, it was about that coach. Again, these new teams are all about CG.
Another thing about CG's teams....the insurance is as bogus as CG is a business man. CG dodged the insurance lady for weeks because she was owed $56,000 that wasn't paid. Another fact, yes every check that has come from CG's office has bounced. I can recall one day last month at the office in West Palm beach, the employees went into work and the electric company was there to disconnect the electricity. One of the employees had to take their money and go pay the bill, just to keep power on in CG's office. Two other times, the office phone was disconneted and his cell # also was disconnected. Please tell me how can this idiot run 16 teams when be cant pay $300 for a light bill and a cell phone #. CG always bragging on his uncle, who CG said is worth "BILLIONS", hell CG what are you worth?????
It is true, Football America gave CG's a great deal on football equipment and everything these new teams (CG teams) needed to be successful. Deal went bad when CG sent another "BOUNCED" check to these guys. Then he tried to say, I don't want to do business with people like them. Hell CG, your the one commiting the crime, as you have before. Anybody who challenge what CG says, he immediately wants them fired. Well guess what CG, I think you finally met your match in Atlanta, because I know for a fact the guy, that you tried to screw there, is much bigger than you know. I assure you, you will see the results, very very soon.
It's very funny to me that everybody from Florida, to Georgia, to Texas, to Colorado and California, don't know how to run teams but CG does and look at this past weekend of events around the league.

1. In Colorado: two teams playing on a high football field, with a field lined off by cones; kicking field goals on a post, both teams play one way; one team wearing their old college helmets (mismatched) with 27 people in the stands; and it starts to rain...WOW CG your really know what your doing

2. Port St. Lucie: one of the player hat to paint over the Katy Copperhead logo on the field with green paint and then paint over it again with a NIFL stencil bought there by CG; while setting up the field, the coach at Port St. Lucie was (8) pads short, CG sends them to Wal-Mart to buy air mattress and covered them with black sheets; then there was no officials for the game; on top of that, they had to stop the game 7 minutes because of a fight breaking out; come on CG is this the best you can do?

3. Atlanta: scheduled to play Columbia on Saturday, at 6p.m., you try and send them to Ohio and then turn you phone off; CG or CS couldn't be reached until the Atlanta coach texted CS that he was closing up shop in Atlanta @ 11:00 and then CS calls him @ 11:30, saying she just found out what was going on, please CS you and CG should marry each other; tried to send the team to Ohio on 2 vans and 1 SUV, yeah right, I know you got this Thoroughbreds team confused with Tri-Valley or LA; then onto of all this, CS promised this entire team 25 players, 2 trainers, 1 doctor and 4 coaches, on a conference call @ 2 a.m. that she would pay for their bus @ 9 a.m. CST when her bank opened.....at 10:30 a.m. EST no money was paid; CG called the Atlanta coach and the bus company and swore up until 1 p.m. that he was sending money; you lied again CG, the Atlanta coach turned the bus around; the Marshals cancelled the game @ 9 p.m. the Friday before, due to CG or CS not contacting them to tell them Atlanta was on the way; Atlanta's coach put CG on speaker phone in front of the whole team and staff, I let them here that CG said @ 2 p.m. on Saturday that the game in Ohio was still on.....LOL.....CG, u dumb @ss....try to lie now and there's 30 witness there in Atlanta......JUST LIKE CG DID AT MIAMI VS. NOTRE DAME (ON THE 1 YD LINE), ONCE AGAIN CG, YOU FUMBLE AND COSTING THE NIFL. WHY DOES THIS GUY ALWAYS COME UP SHORT? WELL OSC, STAY TUNED FOR THE TRUTH!!!!

[Tomcats]

Not only was the schedule changed at the last minute, there was no funds given for the trip. You go to bed thinking your playing one team, then at 1:00am in the morning your on a conference call trying to figure out if you can get enough people to go to Ohio instead of South Carolina. Then after an hour on the phone the owner of the league tells you and your teammates she will pay for the bus change and she does not. You show up to leave for Ohio only to find out the game is cancelled. What a joke? We got no sleep and got screwed out of a game. When the whole time we were suppose to go to South Carolina. South Carolina lost to Ohio by 12 points and CG wanted to send Jacksonville to South Carolina instead of Ohio for a closer game. I do not know why Jacksonville was going to get blowed out either way. So, because of this CG you cost Ohio and Atlanta a game. What did Jacksonville pay you to send them to South Carolina instead of Ohio?

[indoor fan]

So is Atlanta finished? One and done.

[Tomcats]

Atlanta was ready to play, 21 on the bus. The league owns Atlanta, so they have to send the money to the bus company. They never sent the money. Atlanta was ready to go after all that, however CG did not deliever for the trip.

[coachld]

This post is intended for players/coaches of the league owned teams. I know there are a handful of teams that have good owners and loyal fans but I hope that they now see the light and recognize that there are better options in terms of leagues.

I know there are players/coaches (league owned teams)that visit this website. I know you want to play at the next level but the NIFL is not the next level. Why not take a stand against these con-artists. If the person who started this thread is being honest...they don't even have insurance. What if you get hurt...who is going to pay the bills? Do you think CG and CS are going to be there to support you? Tell them to take a hike...stop showing up to practice/games until they get their stuff together. Chances are they will not take care of business but you could use this time to continue training....get bigger, faster, and stronger so that when the next opportunity comes knocking, you are ready! Time to take a stand fellas!

[AllAces]

This post is intended for players/coaches of the league owned teams. I know there are a handful of teams that have good owners and loyal fans but I hope that they now see the light and recognize that there are better options in terms of leagues.

I know there are players/coaches (league owned teams)that visit this website. I know you want to play at the next level but the NIFL is not the next level. Why not take a stand against these con-artists. If the person who started this thread is being honest...they don't even have insurance. What if you get hurt...who is going to pay the bills? Do you think CG and CS are going to be there to support you? Tell them to take a hike...stop showing up to practice/games until they get their stuff together. Chances are they will not take care of business but you could use this time to continue training....get bigger, faster, and stronger so that when the next opportunity comes knocking, you are ready! Time to take a stand fellas!

Agreed! But if you can't do that - AT LEAST get proof of insurance in your hand and then call the company to confirm. This "opportunity" is not worth your health, your future or bankruptcy. Please take care of yourselves and don't get taken advantage of!

[Magic]

Pt 2

Ok guys sorry for the delay but I had business to take care of. Now where do I start?.........Ok, How may of you guys really know or have met this guy CG? On several conversations with this insane CG guy, he loves to pull the race card on all the "brothers" as he refer to the coaches in the league. CG tried to "CON" his expansion coaches by saying he's giving them a chance to own a professional team. He words were, and I quote: " these white boys don't like it cause I'm giving brothers a chance to own teams. That's why we have to stick together. I could sale all these teams to these white boys but I won't." Please tell me, what in the hell does this have to do with the NIFL? CG tried to sale the Atlanta franchise to the head coach for $750,000. The coach told him, the only value that any of his expansion teams have is what the GM/coaches have built.
Also, another update from this weekend games for those of you who don't know. The game between Tri-Valley and La Lynx was stopped because the two teams had a bench-clearing fight on the field. Why does this not surprise me? Well NIFL fans, the two teams are coached by Mike Greer and Anthony Bartley. These are CG's two "NUTS", with Bartley being the right and Greer hanging to the left or at time vice verse. That depends on who is sending in the most tryout fees and who's hanging the closes.
STAY TUNED FOR MORE, PT 2 WILL CONTINUE IN A SECOND.....I'LL BE RIGHT BACK

[coachgreer]

The Tri Valley Players and my one coach is the most important thing to me in the unfortunate soap oprea. I have 35 dedicated young football players that I am tring to give a oppertunity to get film, play in front of their families and try to move up to the next level.

My coach and myself are not doing this for Carol Shiver or Cleveland Gary, we are tring to bring the indoor game to Northen CA. and the smaller market areas. I am be no means a YES MAN to anyone. I WANT to believe in a system that works, and give my players ,coach and myself a great organization to own in the Bay Area.

All of these personal attacks on this board is uncalled for. If you want to attack NIFL, Cleveland and Carol that is one thing, But Coach I am in the same boat that you are in. I had no tickets at my last game, My field was terrible also, I handed out my gear the day before the game, Because I bought it. I bought my own practice gear , with our logo on it ,t-shirt and shorts. ( for those players that made the team, not those that could not Mr. BLINDTOTHEFACT Eric you know where I am. If you want to see me.)

So keep my name out of both of your mouths. I am just tring to run my team out here in Northern CA. That is my main goal, I know Cleveland as well as I know you COACH ,I have never meet him in person and I have never meet you in person COACH.

So about that NUTS comment, Northern California is where I am, come see me, I am not hard to find. Since you want to talk about it ,you better be about it.

[billm75]

This post is intended for players/coaches of the league owned teams. I know there are a handful of teams that have good owners and loyal fans but I hope that they now see the light and recognize that there are better options in terms of leagues.

I know there are players/coaches (league owned teams)that visit this website. I know you want to play at the next level but the NIFL is not the next level. Why not take a stand against these con-artists. If the person who started this thread is being honest...they don't even have insurance. What if you get hurt...who is going to pay the bills? Do you think CG and CS are going to be there to support you? Tell them to take a hike...stop showing up to practice/games until they get their stuff together. Chances are they will not take care of business but you could use this time to continue training....get bigger, faster, and stronger so that when the next opportunity comes knocking, you are ready! Time to take a stand fellas!


I'm certainly not siding with the league here, but if the players stage what would amount to a "strike", they are also endangering the future of the sport and the game in their hometowns. I COMPLETELY AGREE that this league needs to put up or shut down when it comes to insurance and such.

I understand where the players/coaches are coming from though. This is a chance to continue playing "professional" ball. Most of their fans LOVE THEM, as the Stingers can attest too. They're not playing for the money, $200-$300? C'mon, McDonald's pays better than that and you'd be hard pressed to blow out your ACL making nuggets.

The league needs to make good on it's promises and it's contracts, or it needs to tell the teams/fans/venues that they've screwed up and it's beyond their control to repair the problems. Sell out to another league, get your $100 per team and move on. Quit endangering the lives of players, the goodwill of communities and the support of fans in towns all across this country.

I'd be willing to bet that 10 of us from this forum could pool our resources and start a league that's:

a.) MORE STABLE
b.) MORE TRUSTWORTHY
c.) MORE RELIABLE
d.) MORE HONEST
e.) BETTER MANAGED
and....
f.) MORE POSITIVELY ACCEPTED
than the current NIFL group could ever hope to achieve.

I say support your players and teams, organize some fundraising events for YOUR TEAMS/PLAYERS and to hell with this league. Let them crawl back under their rocks.

[nksports]

Sounds like there are several people here who need to hire lawyers. CG and CS get away with these bullcookies because no one has taken them to task. When they have been put up before the judge (IFL a couple of years ago), they had to back down (and they brought the suit). It's expensive, I know. Your chance of recovering more than what you have to pay out in legal expenses is slim (CS and CG will plead poverty in court. Even with a default judgement, they will make it hard to collect.) The best case senario is what happened with the AIFL, which got sued, lost and had to jettison its CEO and reorganize as the AIFA

[billm75]

I don't know that a reorganization will help at this point though. From what I've read from other posters here on the board, this league is a cancer. (someone else's words)

It would be best for the stable and semi-stable teams to jump to more established leagues, leaving the NIFL to rot away. If most of this year's expansion teams are league owned and are not playing their schedules for whatever reason, then why not jump ship to a better league?

I'm not advocating giving up on the teams, but the league is making it clear that they are not dedicated to success. Suffer the rest of this year, jump ship and never look back.

[preeths]

I'd like to see this whole argument de-personalized a bit. Clearly, there is much about the NIFL's troubles that has come out, and reports indicate that there is much more to tell. There's more than enough if we all just stick to the facts. Magic is clearly on the inside, and I look forward to his next installment. Coach Greer, I feel badly for all that you and your guys, as well as your fellow coaches, have had to endure this season. It's proof positive that not all opportunities are worth the cost. My main hope remains that no one gets seriously hurt and left to fend for themselves.

[dhstatman]

I was not able to stay for the game, but I made the trip out to Pleasanton on Saturday around 1:00 and saw Coach Greer and the players out there rolling turf in preparation for the game. The players should not have to be doing this - this is something the league should have people doing.

We stayed out there till about 2:30 and left thinking that they might just pull it off intime and get a full game in. I guess they started around 8:00, and it is a clear shame they couldnt complete the game. If you saw them working as they were only to have some bull-**** fight break out, it is heartbreaking to see all their efforts go for not.

It is unfortunate that Cleveland Gary has stepped in where Shriver has left off and that is screwing Coaches, GM's, players and fans.

It is a great idea to save money and have teams play in places like this, but in saving money in the arena and such, they need to advertise better, and this also means updating the NIFL and team sites better. I am a dedicated indoor-ball fan, and even I was unsure of when and if the game was kicking off.

I am going to support the Ranchers as best as I can, but I hope they see that these people in the NIFL cannot be trusted and there is a reason they have the highest percentage of turnover of teams year after year, and clearly lead the way in forfeited/cancelled games.

Good luck to you Ranchers - I will see you May 5th I hope.

[TheHulk]

With all due respect to the players, coaches, and GM's that are getting the once over from Conman and Conwoman; the only thing that keeps going through my mind when I read these boards is the theme to the "Benny Hill Show".

[Big Easy]

Having to live in the middle of the disfunction, I would have to guess the coaches, players, etc. understand how bad things are more than anyone. I guess it comes down to a bad opportunity is better than no opportunity at all. The people who play and coach indoor football obviously don't do it for money. I'm sure they all hope to use this league and other leagues as a stepping stone, but if they are honest with themselves, I'd bet it's more about passion and love for the sport than anything else. They aren't ready to quit playing and coaching. Although a bad situation, the NIFL offers the chance to pursue their passion. Therefore they deal with the problems that come with it.

It sounds like the NIFL teams who are NOT league owned need to find a new league for their players, coaches, employees, fans, etc. Those players and coaches who are involved with league owned teams should try to catch on with a team in another league. But, as long as the NIFL finds a way to kick off a game, any game, with or without insurance, I believe there will be people willing to play and coach.

[UNLogger]

It would be best for the stable and semi-stable teams to jump to more established leagues, leaving the NIFL to rot away. If most of this year's expansion teams are league owned and are not playing their schedules for whatever reason, then why not jump ship to a better league?

Bill -

I love the constant attempt at positive. Truly, it is inspiring.

That being said, your statement doesn't make any sense. First, if they are league owned teams, I really don't see CG and CS attempting to take them to another league. Second, they are league owned because no one has stepped up to be a true owner like those in Fayetteville, Wyoming, San Diego, and Beaumont. In addition, it isn't as easy to jump leagues as it looks. The other leagues are more stable and better run. One reason they can accomplish that, outside of not having cons running the league, is because they require the ownership groups to show more cash and holdings up front. Obviously, even within the other opportunities, the leagues have varying amounts they ask for. The af2 is generally considered the most expensive and so on down the line. To take your ball to a new league requires some $$$$$.

UNLogger
Aaron

[indoor fan]

Having to live in the middle of the disfunction, I would have to guess the coaches, players, etc. understand how bad things are more than anyone. I guess it comes down to a bad opportunity is better than no opportunity at all. The people who play and coach indoor football obviously don't do it for money. I'm sure they all hope to use this league and other leagues as a stepping stone, but if they are honest with themselves, I'd bet it's more about passion and love for the sport than anything else. They aren't ready to quit playing and coaching. Although a bad situation, the NIFL offers the chance to pursue their passion. Therefore they deal with the problems that come with it.

It sounds like the NIFL teams who are NOT league owned need to find a new league for their players, coaches, employees, fans, etc. Those players and coaches who are involved with league owned teams should try to catch on with a team in another league. But, as long as the NIFL finds a way to kick off a game, any game, with or without insurance, I believe there will be people willing to play and coach.

That's the bottom line.

[sportsfan27]

First off, let me state that I was involved with the NIFL from the venue side for two years and can tell you with no doubt that the last thing on CG and CS mind is the advancement and even the safty of the players and coaches, and if you think playing a season in this league is going to advance you to anything other than another $200 per game league you are kidding yourself and risking your health. You can keep on banging your head against the wall and telling yourself that it's helping, but in the end you'll have nothing but a headache. I know that players and coaches have a dream, but if leagues such as the NIFL can keep filling teams, praying on players with a dream, they are never going to go away, and the idea of a more stable system, which could advance more players, will never be able to gain a foothold. You want to get recognized by national media. Have the whole league go on strike. Prepare yourself for your ESPN interviews.

Off subject, has anybody ever looked across all the leagues, combined all the stable and successful franchises to see what kind of league could be formed?
One step away from the AF2 as a feeder system to that league. The AFL is the big time the AF2 is AAA and this league would be AA. You'll get more serious investors and at least you have a cohesive direction and goal for the players. I know players that have moved from the NIFL to AF2 and I know players that have moved from the AF2 to the AFL.

[Magic]

I would like to point out how CG likes to use the race card, while talking to all of his expansion teams coaches. CG says, and I quote " These white boys out here don't want to see a black man own a professional team. I'm giving you guys a chance to own a professional indoor football team. I could sale these teams to the WHITE man tomorrow." I can also remember in another conversation with CG, he said that why the existing owner are bad for the NIFL. When some coaches asked CG why weren't the existing owner included in the conference call, he said they don't need to know what's going on. CG also talks $hit behind CS and the rest of the existing owners back to each of the expansion coaches.

Now to some facts! CG and CS needed a person to take the fall for all their lies and screw ups. That's when Stephanie Fisher was hired as the Director of Operations for CG's teams. When Steph went out on vacation, everything went to hell. Reason for that: 1.) CG's broke as 2 nickels and 2.) CG is as business minded as he is stupid
Before Stephanie left on April 10, she emailed CG a list with 7 things that had to happen for these teams to be successiful.
1.) Game schedule for every team playing that weekend
2.) Equipment & Uniforms - It stated that D-1 had all the orders for all the teams and all they needed to ship was payment.
3.) Transportation - The teams that needed checks cut and sent to their bus companies.
4.) Tickets - Stated that tickets needed to be order and all she needed from CG was his credit card #!!!!! (when the credit card was ran, the machine said, "YEAH RIGHT, ARE YOU KIDDING!"
5.) Per Diem Checks - (2) Teams need money ($710) for per diem for their players. Bernard Edwards in Ft. Myers and Chris Banks in Atlanta. Stephanie wrote, CG please sent me money so I can refund Chris Banks from last week in Beaumont. (CG never sent money for the Atlanta team in Beaumont, in which we have a coach taking care of CG's mistakes....be careful coach CG has been known to lie)
6.) Barricades - CG please fill out the credit application for United Rentals. (LOL, CG, CREDIT.......you gotta be kidding! CG has to fill out a credit application to pay with cash, c'mon people this is Cleveland Gary hear.)
7.) Turf from Beaumont to LA- CG dodged the company that was going to transport the turf, they needed payment.

Any and everything that was right about CG's teams, it was because of Stephanie Fisher.

****STAY TUNED OSC FANS, THERE IS STILL LOTS MORE TO COME!!!! Pt 3 LATER TODAY. THERE WILL BE MORE POSTING FROM ANOTHER INSIDE SOURCE LATER TODAY.

[Rooster]

This may be one of the most poignant posts that I have ever read on any message board. I feel like Magic is writing from seclusion, banging out a thread then having to look both ways before hitting the submit reply button. This is a captivating read….

[Stephanie Fisher]

I have been waiting for my name to appear and knew it would at some point. I have yet to respond to anything on this message board in regards to the NIFL. But, I feel obligated to share the knowledge and facts that I have in order to protect the innocent people that are caught up in the Cleveland and Carolyn scandal.

How I became a part of the NIFL to the point of being the Director of Operations for the expansion teams is a long story that I wouldn’t bore you with. To cut to the chase on Friday, March 9th I received a call in the middle of the afternoon from CG & CS. CG just got off his three-time a week conference call with the coaches. He was very distraught and upset. He said that he could no longer handle running the operations of his teams and asked if I would help out. At that point he and CS appointed me as Director of Operations for the expansion teams. I knew that I had to be careful so that I didn’t get thrown under the bus. I soon realized that there were some people that you could trust and others that you couldn’t. It was crystal clear who were CG & CS fans and drank the kool-aid that they were serving!

Part 1 = Schedule & Equipment Issues

I knew that it was going to be an uphill battle to get 17 teams up and running in less than three weeks. So before long I was instructed by CG & CS to redo the schedule and push all the expansion teams games back two to three weeks. That is why the schedule changed at least three times before a single game was even played, and also the reason why teams are playing back-go-back games in some weeks.

The first teams to receive equipment were the Aviators and Lynx. The reason being both teams had to travel to play established teams the weekend of March 30th. That equipment came from Football America. The Aviators was paid for by a wire transfer from CS and the Lynx paid for by a third party (who I will not disclose). A check was mailed to Football America for Atlanta’s equipment that needed shipped to them immediately, because they were scheduled to play Beaumont on April 7th. That check was returned due to lack of funds (INSF)! I was then instructed by CG that the NIFL would no longer due business with Football America. CG had a falling out with their President over financial terms.

Later today will be Part 2 – the facts surrounding the Atlanta vs. Beaumont game.

[True Champion]

Magic,
First off let me start off by saying that if you are going to talk about someone, do it to my face. I am my own man trying to take advantage of an opprotunity to coach at the "PROFESSIONAL LEVEL," whatever that means now. But I seriously am not going to accept being disrespected by no man! I have not said anything negative about anyone. I am getting screwedover just like everyone else so the personal attacks on me has got to stop. I was hired to do a job and I am doing my job. I have players that I am very concerned about that I am trying to help and I have people like you hating on me and you don't even know me! You can always come to California and get to know me if you wish! Or I can come to you, whichever is convienent for you. But let it be know, I will respect you as a man, if you can't do the same, then we will continue to have major problems.

Anthony Bartley
Los Angeles Lynx
General Manager/Head Coach

[coachld]

I have been waiting for my name to appear and knew it would at some point. I have yet to respond to anything on this message board in regards to the NIFL. But, I feel obligated to share the knowledge and facts that I have in order to protect the innocent people that are caught up in the Cleveland and Carolyn scandal.

How I became a part of the NIFL to the point of being the Director of Operations for the expansion teams is a long story that I wouldn’t bore you with. To cut to the chase on Friday, March 9th I received a call in the middle of the afternoon from CG & CS. CG just got off his three-time a week conference call with the coaches. He was very distraught and upset. He said that he could no longer handle running the operations of his teams and asked if I would help out. At that point he and CS appointed me as Director of Operations for the expansion teams. I knew that I had to be careful so that I didn’t get thrown under the bus. I soon realized that there were some people that you could trust and others that you couldn’t. It was crystal clear who were CG & CS fans and drank the kool-aid that they were serving!

Part 1 = Schedule & Equipment Issues

I knew that it was going to be an uphill battle to get 17 teams up and running in less than three weeks. So before long I was instructed by CG & CS to redo the schedule and push all the expansion teams games back two to three weeks. That is why the schedule changed at least three times before a single game was even played, and also the reason why teams are playing back-go-back games in some weeks.

The first teams to receive equipment were the Aviators and Lynx. The reason being both teams had to travel to play established teams the weekend of March 30th. That equipment came from Football America. The Aviators was paid for by a wire transfer from CS and the Lynx paid for by a third party (who I will not disclose). A check was mailed to Football America for Atlanta’s equipment that needed shipped to them immediately, because they were scheduled to play Beaumont on April 7th. That check was returned due to lack of funds (INSF)! I was then instructed by CG that the NIFL would no longer due business with Football America. CG had a falling out with their President over financial terms.

Later today will be Part 2 – the facts surrounding the Atlanta vs. Beaumont game.

I play in the same semi-pro league that Stephanie used to be a part of. I have heard good and bad about her and must admit that I was upset when I heard that she was involved with the NIFL. However, I applaud her for being honest and giving us the lowdown on what has been happening behind the scenes. The players and coaches who have been lied to for the past three months need to know what is going on. Thanks for your honesty!

[Magic]

To be honest with you, I wouldn't have a problem saying what Im saying here to each and everyone of you guys. I don't back down from no man, please believe that my friend. I don't have anything personal against you, only thing I have against you is that you back CG, knowing this guy is as fake as his bounced checks. That's what I have a problem with. I truely understand you wanting a coaching job, but hell Anthony, when are you guys gonna STOP faking the funk and tell CG enough is enough. At this point, think about your organization, you have earned that franchise. It's your name that you community will hold accountable not CG. He's going to STOP answering his phone as soon as this SCAM is over. CG plays your friend, but when you had that altercation your first game, he called you all kind of SOB and asked if you should be fired. If you need proof, I'll be glad to provide it for you. As far as talking to your face, those of you who know me, know I have no problem saying the same thing to your face. I'm no CG......CG is a straight COWARD!!! CG you better tuck your tail and run like always, because we're coming for you!!! WE don't give a Fk who your uncle is CG, your @ss is mine, THAT I PROMISE. Anybody who wants to step in the way, be my guess.......By the way CG, does your uncle know how big of a liar you are....?

[mrinsideto-u]

Not only was the schedule changed at the last minute, there was no funds given for the trip. You go to bed thinking your playing one team, then at 1:00am in the morning your on a conference call trying to figure out if you can get enough people to go to Ohio instead of South Carolina. Then after an hour on the phone the owner of the league tells you and your teammates she will pay for the bus change and she does not. You show up to leave for Ohio only to find out the game is cancelled. What a joke? We got no sleep and got screwed out of a game. When the whole time we were suppose to go to South Carolina. South Carolina lost to Ohio by 12 points and CG wanted to send Jacksonville to South Carolina instead of Ohio for a closer game. I do not know why Jacksonville was going to get blowed out either way. So, because of this CG you cost Ohio and Atlanta a game. What did Jacksonville pay you to send them to South Carolina instead of Ohio? I agree the league IS a sham, but truth be told Jax doesn't have money either. Not even a web site, and the coach is still contacting players from other team's trying to get them to come play for him. Who would want to when he has no exp- coaching the indoor game or no money for the team. What a shame CS and CG are doing to these cities.

[mrinsideto-u]

Not only was the schedule changed at the last minute, there was no funds given for the trip. You go to bed thinking your playing one team, then at 1:00am in the morning your on a conference call trying to figure out if you can get enough people to go to Ohio instead of South Carolina. Then after an hour on the phone the owner of the league tells you and your teammates she will pay for the bus change and she does not. You show up to leave for Ohio only to find out the game is cancelled. What a joke? We got no sleep and got screwed out of a game. When the whole time we were suppose to go to South Carolina. South Carolina lost to Ohio by 12 points and CG wanted to send Jacksonville to South Carolina instead of Ohio for a closer game. I do not know why Jacksonville was going to get blowed out either way. So, because of this CG you cost Ohio and Atlanta a game. What did Jacksonville pay you to send them to South Carolina instead of Ohio?

The Tri Valley Players and my one coach is the most important thing to me in the unfortunate soap oprea. I have 35 dedicated young football players that I am tring to give a oppertunity to get film, play in front of their families and try to move up to the next level.

My coach and myself are not doing this for Carol Shiver or Cleveland Gary, we are tring to bring the indoor game to Northen CA. and the smaller market areas. I am be no means a YES MAN to anyone. I WANT to believe in a system that works, and give my players ,coach and myself a great organization to own in the Bay Area.

All of these personal attacks on this board is uncalled for. If you want to attack NIFL, Cleveland and Carol that is one thing, But Coach I am in the same boat that you are in. I had no tickets at my last game, My field was terrible also, I handed out my gear the day before the game, Because I bought it. I bought my own practice gear , with our logo on it ,t-shirt and shorts. ( for those players that made the team, not those that could not Mr. BLINDTOTHEFACT Eric you know where I am. If you want to see me.)

So keep my name out of both of your mouths. I am just tring to run my team out here in Northern CA. That is my main goal, I know Cleveland as well as I know you COACH ,I have never meet him in person and I have never meet you in person COACH.

So about that NUTS comment, Northern California is where I am, come see me, I am not hard to find. Since you want to talk about it ,you better be about it. Personal attack is one thing but if you want to do the right thing STOP playing for now and find an investor or two and get into another league or start your own, the IFL or the UIF might be a good thing but as long as I have known CS she has been BAD news, will you discuss all that has been going on with the league, with someone from SI or ESPN the mag, if you are contacted or will you be a yes boy and hide ALL the problems you have encounterd with the league. You want tohelp these players? Distance yourself from CG and CS and free your mind and your soul and help expose the league for what it is. Then send a private mes, and there will be someone from above in contact if you really want to again,,,EXPOSE what this garbage league is about. Do you have insurance?

I'm certainly not siding with the league here, but if the players stage what would amount to a "strike", they are also endangering the future of the sport and the game in their hometowns. I COMPLETELY AGREE that this league needs to put up or shut down when it comes to insurance and such.

I understand where the players/coaches are coming from though. This is a chance to continue playing "professional" ball. Most of their fans LOVE THEM, as the Stingers can attest too. They're not playing for the money, $200-$300? C'mon, McDonald's pays better than that and you'd be hard pressed to blow out your ACL making nuggets.

The league needs to make good on it's promises and it's contracts, or it needs to tell the teams/fans/venues that they've screwed up and it's beyond their control to repair the problems. Sell out to another league, get your $100 per team and move on. Quit endangering the lives of players, the goodwill of communities and the support of fans in towns all across this country.

I'd be willing to bet that 10 of us from this forum could pool our resources and start a league that's:

a.) MORE STABLE
b.) MORE TRUSTWORTHY
c.) MORE RELIABLE
d.) MORE HONEST
e.) BETTER MANAGED
and....
f.) MORE POSITIVELY ACCEPTED
than the current NIFL group could ever hope to achieve.

I say support your players and teams, organize some fundraising events for YOUR TEAMS/PLAYERS and to hell with this league. Let them crawl back under their rocks.

[dking5341]

I went out on the limb last month to say that I felt that CG was running a scam along with another person. I said that he would try to use semi-pro teams to fill the empty cities teams. When I approached CG about the venue, money, equipment and other things, he jumped off the conference call that he organized acting like he had a meeting to go to all of a sudden. I went after him because, I felt like I needed to for the rest of the coaches that were fed the same things from CG. I think a few of coaches agreed to what I said and very couple agreed the way I did it. But, never the less, it needed to be said, rather if it was the right time or not. He told me that a few of the coaches after that conference call, called him and said that he should change the number and code to the conference call and not include me anymore. I told him to do what he felt. He wanted me to apologize to him in front of all the coaches on that next Monday conf. call. I told him sure, but in my mind, I knew that I wasn't going to do that, b/c that meant that I went back on my feeling that I had and said about him. He told Stephanie that I was to apologize, b/c she was back in charge. So I guess he wanted me to apologize and let her tell him I did. It wasn't about pride (well a little of it was), but it was about the right thing and people(players and fans). I've never spoken with CS, I wish I would've before the article hit the press, to tell her that I felt CG was running a scam and trying to run her out of her own league. So before you outsiders go crying on the behalf of CG, listen and open your eyes to the truth.

[exit322]

Shiver and Gary seem to make two peas in a pod pretty well here.

[preeths]

For those who missed it, here is the story dking5341 is referencing:
http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3439373

[Rooster]

It's official, this thread has really touched off a nerve. Glad to see that front office personnel from ALL indoor leagues are getting a chance to read this. Must be pile on the NIFL day today:

Cleveland Gary, the new CEO of the league (former NFL player), granted franchises to anybody and everybody despite the fact they had no uniforms, a proven arena, tuf, dasherboards, and never posted the $150,000 security bond, etc. All of these teams were being backed by a California company which thought they would sell a lot of season tickets, use the money to buy what was needed, and go home loaded with cash. It didn't work.

For more:

http://www.minorleaguefootballnews.com/

[Magic]

I was told by a friend of mine that CG and CS were at the game lastnight in Sarasota. I was told that CG stayed very close to the ticket and box office cash drawer. I also was told that CG tried to bring the NIFL tickets (priced @ $ 25.00) and the boxes office told him that they couldn't use them. Price for the game was $10.00 - $15.00.

[preeths]

It's official, this thread has really touched off a nerve. Glad to see that front office personnel from ALL indoor leagues are getting a chance to read this. Must be pile on the NIFL day today:

Cleveland Gary, the new CEO of the league (former NFL player), granted franchises to anybody and everybody despite the fact they had no uniforms, a proven arena, tuf, dasherboards, and never posted the $150,000 security bond, etc. All of these teams were being backed by a California company which thought they would sell a lot of season tickets, use the money to buy what was needed, and go home loaded with cash. It didn't work.

For more:

http://www.minorleaguefootballnews.com/

I'm not sure that was the idea, myself. I think the intention was to build these franchises up to some minimum point - maybe a name, logo and a lease - and then sell them off for big bucks. For some reason, Mr. Gary thought these teams were worth $2 million. I wonder where he got that idea. Remember the Fort Myers article in which he claimed the Tarpons were sold for that amount? Then next month he had to admit he had no buyers. In reality, these teams are worth about the amount he has invested in them, a few thousand at most (nothing in some cases), unless he finds some really poorly informed buyers.

[rams80]

Personal attack is one thing but if you want to do the right thing STOP playing for now and find an investor or two and get into another league or start your own, the IFL or the UIF might be a good thing but as long as I have known CS she has been BAD news, will you discuss all that has been going on with the league, with someone from SI or ESPN the mag, if you are contacted or will you be a yes boy and hide ALL the problems you have encounterd with the league. You want tohelp these players? Distance yourself from CG and CS and free your mind and your soul and help expose the league for what it is. Then send a private mes, and there will be someone from above in contact if you really want to again,,,EXPOSE what this garbage league is about. Do you have insurance?

I think they honestly have to start their own, especially the California teams. Neither the UIF or the IFL is close enough to make a serious go of it.

[billm75]

Bill -

I love the constant attempt at positive. Truly, it is inspiring.

That being said, your statement doesn't make any sense. First, if they are league owned teams, I really don't see CG and CS attempting to take them to another league. Second, they are league owned because no one has stepped up to be a true owner like those in Fayetteville, Wyoming, San Diego, and Beaumont. In addition, it isn't as easy to jump leagues as it looks. The other leagues are more stable and better run. One reason they can accomplish that, outside of not having cons running the league, is because they require the ownership groups to show more cash and holdings up front. Obviously, even within the other opportunities, the leagues have varying amounts they ask for. The af2 is generally considered the most expensive and so on down the line. To take your ball to a new league requires some $$$$$.

UNLogger
Aaron


Nope, wasn't clear at all was it? I meant for the teams that are NOT league owned to jump ship.

[Bill]

Whew...

Just when you thought the state of the NIFL couldn't get any worse...
It has..

It's too bad..

They're making it harder for any future legitimate owners/leagues in these cities.

[Magic]

First off, CG tried to sale the idea of hiring GM/coaches who were stupid....Ok CG maybe you did in some cases.

CG tried to tell each of the 16 coaches that he wanted to make them owners of a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM, when in fact he was trying to sale the teams while these poor guys were doing all the work. Please explain to me how someone can sale a team that someone else has built. This is a true SCAM. Let's take a coach in California for example, I feel sorry for this guy. He quit his job, thinking he was going to make some money by being GM/coach of his NIFL team. CG keeps feeding him lies and a dream that will never happen this year and CG's cell phone will be disconnected next month. AB, please man for your sake, wise up and tell CG to FK off. You own that team man, you've earned it.
I have to give BIG up's to Coach Campbell in San Bernadino for sticking up for you players and what you believe. CG rented vans for the LA team to travel to Tri-Valley on last weekend. CG told the coach in LA to drive the same vans to San Bernadino to Coach Campbell and wanted him to use the same vans to transport his team to Tri-Valley.
A team in Colorado is suppose to play a game this week vs. Peublo, but they have no equipment. The owners in Wyoming should start their own league, because they are taking better care of the teams in Colorado than CG.

Player and Coaches pay

Out of all of CG and CS teams (17), not one player or coach has received a paycheck. The pay system according to CG and CS was set as following:

The check for your first game will be held for you equipment. The second check will go in the whole. Then they said that it takes two weeks for the payroll company to process the check in holding. So by this time you are playing your third game. Players and coaches aren't scheduled to receive their first paycheck until the day before their 4th game. Ok, from my understanding, checks are being held for equipment right? Why would CG and CS hold the coaches checks? Does coaches use equipment to coach now, OH MAYBE IN THE NIFL THEY DO, TOO AVOID ALL THE B___ BEING THROWN OUT BY CG AND CS.
OK, lets look at this player assiociation fee SCAM: for each game played, the NIFL (CG AND CS) was going to take out $40 per game to the BS assiociation. Damn, the players only make $200-$300 per game. Not CG's teams, they only make $200......do the math on $40 per game.

$40 x 14 games = $560 (this is what one player would pay to play in NIFL)

$40 x 21 players (a game) = $840 (going to CG and his crew)

$840 x 14 games = $11,760 (per team this season)

$11,760 x 17 teams = $199,920 (total paid by players to CG and crew)

$200 x 14 games = $2800 (projected salary for 14 games)

$2800(projected salary) - $560(player fees) = $2240 (salary after player fees paid to CG and CS)

What does the players get from this assiociation?

For this one season, IF that player stays in this league, they will get hotel fare paid for on vacation anywhere in the United States.

I almost forgot, The players are suppose to TRUST CG and CS to send them (2) checks after the season is over. Guys, do a little research on CG and I bet your find FRAUD in the same sentence as Cleveland Gary and very close to Carol Shiver's name as well.

[dking5341]

The truth shall set up free!!!!! You're killing'em by parts. People open your eyes. This dude is telling the truth. Nothing is a lie. One more thing he forgot to say. The coaches are making only $400 a game. If you get another coach he gets $400. If you get 2 or more, either they'll be working by intern or splitting that $400 among each other.

[TheHulk]

The truth shall set up free!!!!! You're killing'em by parts. People open your eyes. This dude is telling the truth. Nothing is a lie. One more thing he forgot to say. The coaches are making only $400 a game. If you get another coach he gets $400. If you get 2 or more, either they'll be working by intern or splitting that $400 among each other.

That is if these coaches actually get paid at all. Besides how is the NIFL's checks worth anything anyway? Last I heard their checks have more rubber than a Goodyear tire. LOL

[Magic]

The NIFL President of Operation, Cleveland Gary has a criminal history as long as HWY 95. Cleveland Gary was caught at Miami taking bribes at an early age. That just started his history. Cleveland Gary's criminal history includes: Insurance Fraud (I wonder will they find this happening in the NIFL, once a player gets hurt?), Grand Theft, Assault & Battery (on a female....CG you, I bet you won't show up in Texas, Colorado or Atlanta...I know some people praying to run up on you....Cleveland always bragging about being a first round draft pick, hell CG you were a FLOP....just like you are as Pres. of the NIFL. Yea Cleveland, we know about the new car you received in college and you gave it to your mother-in-law and she gave you the pinto.

To the reader of OSC, did you'll know that the NIFL had a chance to send two teams to Africa to play for the King of Gunea (however you spell it)? The deal was lost when Cleveland Gary and Caroline Shiver couldn't send two teams there on vans or SUV's.

[homework in CO]

Cleveland Gary's criminal history includes: Insurance Fraud (I wonder will they find this happening in the NIFL, once a player gets hurt?), Grand Theft, Assault & Battery.

Below is a link regarding the Insurance Fraud. I guess he really needed that $40K.
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=nfl/news/ABN1591887.htm

[OneBetter]

Wow, good work, Magic.

I can't believe any league would want to be associated with a guy like CG!!! Oh wait, it's the NIFL....it makes perfect sense.

I'm really looking forward to your next installment in the NIFL Exposed Series!!!

[preeths]

I received this email from an Atlanta player sent to the WIFL. It says a lot about what so many NIFL players and coaches are going through:

> I am currently playing in the very chaotic, confusing, and on many
> occasions unprofessional NIFL for the Atlanta (GA) Thoroughbreds. I don't know if
> you ever heard of this league, but those are a "few" characteristics. The team
> is of high quality with many players having professional experience on many
> levels (NFL, CFL, Arena 1, Arena 2). At the moment we are in a situation
> were our coach has decided to discontinue (and you really can't blame him)
> the rest of the season because of how the league conducts business and
> treats its players. This news has been really heart breaking to me and my
> teammates who only want to play, get paid and continue to further their
> football careers. It is my understanding that your league has only four
> teams in it at the present time. My coaches, teammates, and I would really
> be thankful if there was some way we could join your league and become that
> fifth team so we could continue playing. We all have heard about the WIFL
> and how well you orchestrate the league and the high quality treatment of
> your players. We have heard so many good things that we desperately want
> to be a part of that. Again, my teammates and I are not asking for much just
> the opportunity to play ball and not be treated unfairly or like we are
> insignificant. I believe truly we all deserve that and see no reason why
> that should not be done. I can guarantee that this team would be a
> positive asset to the league. We can definitely present a quality of play that the
> league can be proud of and we are located in arguably the best city in the
> United States, Atlanta, GA. I send this email, being one of the captains
> and leaders of this team, in hopes that you can provide some guidance in
> helping us come to a solution to our problem. Like I said we just want to
> "Play" and "Compete" in a professional league that believes in being
> professional and not just trying to make a "quick buck" for themselves. I
> am well aware you are a "very" busy man and I hope this email finds you
> doing well, but I come to you for help. I hope there is something that can
> be done for this year if not the next. I ask this humbly on behalf of my
> coaches and teammates.

[preeths]

Also received word that most of the experienced players on the Pomona Cool Riders have walked away after their game last week at San Diego.

[Magic]

*************ATTENTION NIFL PLAYERS & COACHES*************
************************************************** *****
To all the players and coaches, please be advised, that there is no insurance or workman's comp to protect you.

From the office of Carol Shiver, was sent a BS workman's comp application and paperwork for the teams in Denver. Denver players, please be advised that these documents were "BOGUS" and another one of the NIFL SCAMS. Here is the company info in which you can research for yourself as I have. Southeast Personnel Leasing Inc., 2739 U.S. Highway 19 N., Holiday, FL. 34691 (866)605-8605 Another person of interest in which you guys may want to contact is: Ralph Mencia of PEO Professionals (904)880-2336

Two weeks later, straight from Carol Shiver office, she said to disreguard the first papers and sent new documents from another company saying that we were switching to this company. After talking with this company, this company told myself and (2) other witness that the NIFL, Cleveland Gary, nor Caroline Shiver were clients of this company. Then I asked was Cleveland Gary's company (AIM Sports Management) a client. They said it wasn't either. Then I asked them how could a player or person check to see if their information had been entered into the system. We check several players and coaches and there was no sign of any players. So at this time, there is no workman's comp or insurance for the players. However, I did find out that there has been talks about the NIFL using this company for payroll only. So to make a long story short, THERE IS NO INSURANCE TO PROTECT PLAYERS IF THEY GET HURT. Below is the contact information for the last company that was suppose to handle workman's comp for all of Cleveland Gary's teams. SCI Companies 4224 W. Henderson Blvd. Tampa, FL. 33629 (800)932-4610 scicompanies.com (PLAYERS) Please call this number to verify any information. STAY TUNED FOR MORE INFORMATION ON LATER TODAY.....

[preeths]

I can verify the information about SCI, the second company. According to a company spokesperson, they have no record of the National Indoor Football League, Carolyn Shiver, Cleveland Gary or CG's company being current clients nor had their sales manager heard of them. In addition, the spokesperson said it didn't even sound like a company they would work with. I took that to mean they don't provide insurance for athletes.

[Magic]

THIS MESSAGE IS FOR ALL OF THE PLAYERS, THAT PLAY ON ONE OF CLEVELAND GARY'S OWNED TEAM. PLEASE CALL TO VERIFY THAT YOUR NOT COVERDED UNDER WORKMAN'S COMP OR ANY KIND OF INSURANCE.

SCI COMPANIES
(800)932-4610
scicompanies.com

[Tomcats]

So how can you have a league and teams playing for it if they are not paying for insurance?

[baydaddy77]

So how can you have a league and teams playing for it if they are not paying for insurance?

If you have your own equipment, it is called Semi-Pro!

[indoor fan]

So how can you have a league and teams playing for it if they are not paying for insurance?

There are about 500 teams in about 50 outdoor leagues that do this every year (semi pro)

[coachld]

Found this on web:

Most employers are required to carry workers' compensation insurance, and in most states heavy financial penalties may be imposed on an employer that does not. In many states there are public uninsured employer funds to pay benefits to workers employed by companies who illegally fail to purchase insurance. Insurance policies are available to employers through commercial insurance companies: if the employer is deemed an excessive risk to insure at market rates, it can obtain coverage through an assigned-risk program.

The difference between semi-pro and professional indoor is that players are not paid in semi-pro, therefore they are not considered employees. I can almost guarantee that the NIFL is required by law to carry workmen's comp or they would not be trying so hard to hide the fact that they don't have the insurance. What state is their headquarters (term used lightly) located? Let's send in a few emails to the state DA's office...I am sure they would be interested to find out.

[Stephanie Fisher]

Below are the emails that I received from Carolyn Shiver regarding payroll and insurance. The first email dated Thursday, March 29 had the se_eployee_app_2007.pdf attached to it. It seemed very odd that the cover letter within the document was dated February 2005. Denver & LA were both instructed that these documents had to be filled out prior to playing their games that weekend.

Then Friday morning March 30th I received new enrollment forms. The pdf attached with that email is named sci_appt.pdf. This package was sent to all coaches to have their players complete.

I have personally spoken with a representative at SCI and have forwarded them all of this documentation. At this point NO CONTRACT HAS BEEN SIGNED WITH SCI. From what has been explained to me, is that this paperwork is ONLY FOR PAYROLL PURPOSES ONLY. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH WORKMAN'S COMP INSURANCE or ANY TYPE OF MEDICAL COVERAGE!

The PDF's are too large to attach to this post, but anyone who would like to see them please feel free to contact me at stephaniehfisher@cs.com. I would be more than happy to share them with you.

I am just trying to protect the innocent players and coaches who think that they have medical coverage for injuries.

Stephanie Fisher

________________________________________________

From: Carolyn Shiver
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:12 PM
To: niflweb@cs.com
Subject: Fwd: Application
Attachment: se_eployee_app_2007.pdf

This application is to cover the players for Workman's comp insurance. You do not need to call the company. You need to only fax these completed back to Palm Beach 561-640-3338 before 9:00 Eastern time tomorrow.

Any player not filling out this application cannot play.

--

Carolyn Shiver
President, National Indoor Football League

________________________________________________


From: Carolyn Shiver
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:47 AM
To: niflweb@cs.com
Subject:
Attachment: sci_appt.pdf

Steph

Attached is the paperwork I need the coaches to have the players fill out. I will talk to the payroll service and determine the proper fees and let you know about the $40 thing as soon as I have an extra minute.

I am sorry to change the forms, but the payroll service is making the better choice for the players and we need to follow them.

If they filled out the other forms, we still need these done. Please send these forms and not the other forms.

Also, remember you need to have the forms completely filled out. Skipping a signature or line will make their insurance ineffective and will make it their fault that they are not covered. They are responsible for getting every form completed.

--

Carolyn Shiver
President, National Indoor Football League

[nksports]

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems someone needs to hire one and file an emergercy injunction against the league (it could either be done in a state where the league has operations of federal court) and league-operated teams to have them halt operations immediately.
The EIFL already had a player seriously injured without the league carrying proper insurance. It shouldn't happen again.

Then again (not that I'm actually hoping for a player to get hurt), maybe if things go on like this, CS and CG might get picked up and jailed.

[Magic]

I'm finding humor in all of this mess.....as you can see, they (Carol Shiver and Cleveland Gary) tried to lie and say that there was insurance. Please call the above #'s and find out the real truth. One other # for you guys: Ralph @ PEO Professionals.....he can tell you alot more detailed that there has never been insurance from the beginning. (xxx)880-2336 He's based in Florida.

On another note, I've just been informed about the upcoming game with Atlanta vs. Greensboro. It has been arranged that if the Atlanta Thoroughbreds don't play on Saturday @ Greensboro, Cleveland has agreed to send a semi-pro team from Tennesse to play this game. The team is owned by Chris Carter, the same guy associated with Jamie Lemounyan, of the Tennesse Riversharks and Montgomery Maulers, and now in San Diego. Ok now put this together: We have Cleveland Gary, Caroline Shiver, Jamie Lemounyan and now Chris Carter in one league......OMG what the hell!!

[phydeaux72]

What state is their headquarters (term used lightly) located?

The NIFL "headquarters" are located in a back office of Carolyn Shiver's ex-husband's trucking company in Lafayette, LA.

By the way, I noticed today that the NIFL has finally removed the NFL logo and all references to the NFL/NIFL officiating agreement from their website. It's about time.

[preeths]

Wow, you are correct! That only took them about 18 months too long.

Speaking of websites, anyone try any of the league-owned expansion team sites lately? Here's what I'm getting at http://fortworthsixers.com, http://www.losangeleslynx.com, etc.:

Website currently unavailable.
Please check for messages in your Control Panel.

[Red Zone]

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems someone needs to hire one and file an emergercy injunction against the league (it could either be done in a state where the league has operations of federal court) and league-operated teams to have them halt operations immediately.
The EIFL already had a player seriously injured without the league carrying proper insurance. It shouldn't happen again.

Then again (not that I'm actually hoping for a player to get hurt), maybe if things go on like this, CS and CG might get picked up and jailed.


I'm kind of surprised that ESPN's "Outside The Lines" hasn't done a documentary on the league yet.

[emtieswall]

I had sent an email to SD Shockwave about the posted standings (you get different win loss records from the SD site vs. the NIFL site.)

I mentioned, in passing, the missing websites; we play LA on Saturday.

The response indicated that the LA site was being improved.

[indoor fan]

I'm finding humor in all of this mess.....as you can see, they (Carol Shiver and Cleveland Gary) tried to lie and say that there was insurance. Please call the above #'s and find out the real truth. One other # for you guys: Ralph @ PEO Professionals.....he can tell you alot more detailed that there has never been insurance from the beginning. (xxx)880-2336 He's based in Florida.

On another note, I've just been informed about the upcoming game with Atlanta vs. Greensboro. It has been arranged that if the Atlanta Thoroughbreds don't play on Saturday @ Greensboro, Cleveland has agreed to send a semi-pro team from Tennesse to play this game. The team is owned by Chris Carter, the same guy associated with Jamie Lemounyan, of the Tennesse Riversharks and Montgomery Maulers, and now in San Diego. Ok now put this together: We have Cleveland Gary, Caroline Shiver, Jamie Lemounyan and now Chris Carter in one league......OMG what the hell!!

Good for them. If the players on the Atlanta team were good enough to be paid, they would be playing for the Falcons or the Force. Nobody is putting a gun to their head and making them play.

Most of these players play semi pro ball where the pay $100 team fees, buy their uniforms, buy all their own equipment, pay for their own travel, do not have any insurance and DO NOT GET PAID.

It amazes me that these same players and coaches were given uniforms, equipment and paid travel, food and are now complaining about not being paid or insurance.

These same guys will be back playing semi pro ball next year.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the NIFL is a joke this year, but good for Cleveland for finding teams and players willing to play. If the players and coaches don't like it then go get hired by an NFL or Arena team or take up golf.

[phydeaux72]

I mentioned, in passing, the missing websites; we play LA on Saturday.

The response indicated that the LA site was being improved.

Riiiiiiight. :rolleyes:

I'm putting my money on the probability that the check to the web hosting company bounced.

[phydeaux72]

Good for them. If the players on the Atlanta team were good enough to be paid, they would be playing for the Falcons or the Force. Nobody is putting a gun to their head and making them play.

Most of these players play semi pro ball where the pay $100 team fees, buy their uniforms, buy all their own equipment, pay for their own travel, do not have any insurance and DO NOT GET PAID.

It amazes me that these same players and coaches were given uniforms, equipment and paid travel, food and are now complaining about not being paid or insurance.

These same guys will be back playing semi pro ball next year.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the NIFL is a joke this year, but good for Cleveland for finding teams and players willing to play. If the players and coaches don't like it then go get hired by an NFL or Arena team or take up golf.

You could not me more wrong. In pro football, you are under contract with the team & the league (which more than likely states that coverage will be provided) and being paid to play (unless you're in the NIFL). Therefore, there is employers' liability issues involved. In semi-pro ball, the players are footing the bill and in most cases have signed insurance waivers.

[preeths]

Good for them. If the players on the Atlanta team were good enough to be paid, they would be playing for the Falcons or the Force. Nobody is putting a gun to their head and making them play.

Most of these players play semi pro ball where the pay $100 team fees, buy their uniforms, buy all their own equipment, pay for their own travel, do not have any insurance and DO NOT GET PAID.

It amazes me that these same players and coaches were given uniforms, equipment and paid travel, food and are now complaining about not being paid or insurance.

These same guys will be back playing semi pro ball next year.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the NIFL is a joke this year, but good for Cleveland for finding teams and players willing to play. If the players and coaches don't like it then go get hired by an NFL or Arena team or take up golf.

That's callous. If that's the deal the players had signed up for in the first place, fine. No one can stop a group of guys from playing without insurance for no money and buying their own equipment. That's semi-pro ball. The problem comes in when the league promises these guys they will be professionals, paid for every game and under a league-wide insurance policy. The players filled out paperwork for SCI who has said they are not providing insurance. We have been unable to find anyone with the league/CG owned expansion teams who has been paid. That is not right, and I can't see how anyone can defend it.

[indoor fan]

That's callous. If that's the deal the players had signed up for in the first place, fine. No one can stop a group of guys from playing without insurance for no money and buying their own equipment. That's semi-pro ball. The problem comes in when the league promises these guys they will be professionals, paid for every game and under a league-wide insurance policy. The players filled out paperwork for SCI who has said they are not providing insurance. We have been unable to find anyone with the league/CG owned expansion teams who has been paid. That is not right, and I can't see how anyone can defend it.

Paul, you are correct. It is clearly wrong. My point is that most (I'd say 80%) of these players and coaches were and will be semi pro players.

[Stephanie Fisher]

I'm kind of surprised that ESPN's "Outside The Lines" hasn't done a documentary on the league yet.

Stay tuned . . . you never know what could be coming out next.

[indoorfootballfaninga]

:eek: This just get's better and better... I have it from a reliable source that CG stated on record that no game's this season have been cancelled and that the team's that departed for other league's weren't financially sound... they weren't up to par with the business model for 2007. After a few more question's my source indicated that when pressed concering Jamie LaMunyon and Peronoski that CG actally defended these people and applauded their involvement and dedication to the NIFL... as I type this I'm shaking my head in disbelief... my source said he was dead serious during the interview that was given earlier today.... yes boy's and girl's it is getting hip deep---time to get the hiphugger's out... The sad part of all this is you actually have coach's and player's trying to put on a good show and extend the dream's of some football player's...:eek:

As a fan of Indoor Football I only hope the charade that the NIFL has become will slowly go away...

Go Osceola Ghostriders and The Georgia Force...

[nksports]

Wow, you are correct! That only took them about 18 months too long.

Speaking of websites, anyone try any of the league-owned expansion team sites lately? Here's what I'm getting at http://fortworthsixers.com, http://www.losangeleslynx.com, etc.:

Somebody didn't pay their web hosting service.

[Tater]

After having read all of the reports, I will say one thing.

If you truly have a legitimate team with an owner, coaching staff, and players currently in the NIFL, you need to call the league office of the other regional league nearest your area and get out of the NIFL immediately.

This league was probably over after the 2007 season, but I am hearing that the solid teams that were left after 2006 are already taking things into their own hands and bolting NOW! They aren't waiting for another landmine to explode in their face.

Like I said, get on the phone and call the nearest league office of a regional league in your area and get out now! Next week might be too late! You could end up the only one left holding the bag that is the NIFL.

By the way, insurance fraud is big time ugly. The state and federal folks frown big time on it, and it bodes poorly for CS and CG. Mandatory prison time is the norm.

[Semi-Pro Source]

Stephanie Fisher what made you come out and tell the truth?
are you no longer affiliated with CG, CS or the NIFL?

[Magic]

Stay Tuned Today For I Will Have Information On Cleveland Gary Trying To Pass The Buck On To Another Coach And Collect A %!!! Also More Info On Cleveland Gary's Telling People He's Done With The Nifl, In Order To "con" Owners Into Staying In The Nifl. Last But Not Least, The Truth About Why Carol Shiver Can't "afford" To Fired Cleveland Gary........stay Tuned!!!!!

[hawkeye]

The Tri Valley Players and my one coach is the most important thing to me in the unfortunate soap oprea. I have 35 dedicated young football players that I am tring to give a oppertunity to get film, play in front of their families and try to move up to the next level.

My coach and myself are not doing this for Carol Shiver or Cleveland Gary, we are tring to bring the indoor game to Northen CA. and the smaller market areas. I am be no means a YES MAN to anyone. I WANT to believe in a system that works, and give my players ,coach and myself a great organization to own in the Bay Area.

All of these personal attacks on this board is uncalled for. If you want to attack NIFL, Cleveland and Carol that is one thing, But Coach I am in the same boat that you are in. I had no tickets at my last game, My field was terrible also, I handed out my gear the day before the game, Because I bought it. I bought my own practice gear , with our logo on it ,t-shirt and shorts. ( for those players that made the team, not those that could not Mr. BLINDTOTHEFACT Eric you know where I am. If you want to see me.)

So keep my name out of both of your mouths. I am just tring to run my team out here in Northern CA. That is my main goal, I know Cleveland as well as I know you COACH ,I have never meet him in person and I have never meet you in person COACH.

So about that NUTS comment, Northern California is where I am, come see me, I am not hard to find. Since you want to talk about it ,you better be about it.

Sorry you made a mistake by joining the NIFL. Hopefully another league which is legit will develop and give you a home for next season.

[hawkeye]

After reading this entire thread I feel like I wasted my time. No offense to Magic and others who gave great information...but to the owners of these teams that aren't league owned...I don't feel sorry for any of you. The writing was on the wall last season. I do hope all of you land on your feet in a legit league in your respective regions.

This is a HUGE reason why my site (www.indoorfootballfan.com) does not cover the NIFL. Granted the "soap opera" may bring in more fans, it may bring in more attention, but it also brings something to indoor football that indoor football doesn't need. Another HUGE black eye.

So when is someone going to file suit against these bozos? I'm guessing probably never because financially no one is going to keep up with CS's money.

I would never wish harm on anyone of these players. Please protect yourselves and your futures. I know all of you have dreams and are looking for a shot but the NIFL IS NOT the place to do it.

Good luck to all the fans, coaches, players, and ownership groups taken in by these two degenerates.

[OneBetter]

After reading this entire thread I feel like I wasted my time. No offense to Magic and others who gave great information...but to the owners of these teams that aren't league owned...I don't feel sorry for any of you. The writing was on the wall last season. I do hope all of you land on your feet in a legit league in your respective regions.

This is a HUGE reason why my site (www.indoorfootballfan.com) does not cover the NIFL. Granted the "soap opera" may bring in more fans, it may bring in more attention, but it also brings something to indoor football that indoor football doesn't need. Another HUGE black eye.

So when is someone going to file suit against these bozos? I'm guessing probably never because financially no one is going to keep up with CS's money.

I would never wish harm on anyone of these players. Please protect yourselves and your futures. I know all of you have dreams and are looking for a shot but the NIFL IS NOT the place to do it.

Good luck to all the fans, coaches, players, and ownership groups taken in by these two degenerates.

Your website has the NIFL logo at the top of it.

[indoor fan]

After reading this entire thread I feel like I wasted my time. No offense to Magic and others who gave great information...but to the owners of these teams that aren't league owned...I don't feel sorry for any of you. The writing was on the wall last season. I do hope all of you land on your feet in a legit league in your respective regions.

This is a HUGE reason why my site (www.indoorfootballfan.com) does not cover the NIFL. Granted the "soap opera" may bring in more fans, it may bring in more attention, but it also brings something to indoor football that indoor football doesn't need. Another HUGE black eye.

So when is someone going to file suit against these bozos? I'm guessing probably never because financially no one is going to keep up with CS's money.

I would never wish harm on anyone of these players. Please protect yourselves and your futures. I know all of you have dreams and are looking for a shot but the NIFL IS NOT the place to do it.

Good luck to all the fans, coaches, players, and ownership groups taken in by these two degenerates.

And your site covers the APFL???? This makes your site Bogus. Chaotic or not, the NIFL is an indoor football league this year.

[hawkeye]

Your website has the NIFL logo at the top of it.

It won't after the season is over. I am not a "web designer"...and the redesign will not be happening until July. We do have some NIFL talk over on the forums but I tried to talk to the NIFL about coverage...and for the past two seasons they have shunned us. There are logos that should be up that aren't...we're working on it :)

[hawkeye]

And your site covers the APFL???? This makes your site Bogus. Chaotic or not, the NIFL is an indoor football league this year.

Do you have a clue about the APFL? Because to say the APFL is below the NIFL is like saying that AlQuida is braver than our troops. With the APFL you at least know what you're getting. At least there aren't lies about 20+ franchises that don't really exsist. At least we don't have to hear about how players are having to "donate" 40$ of each check back to the league.

Chaotic is not the word to describe the NIFL. Scam is the more appropriate word.

And as far as IFF being bogus...you have a right to your opinion. It's not for everyone. Nor did I say that to compare IFF to OSC or any other site. Paul and I have a good relationship and we both fill a nitche. And I think both of us see what's really going on in the NIFL.

[Stephanie Fisher]

Stephanie Fisher what made you come out and tell the truth?
are you no longer affiliated with CG, CS or the NIFL?

Like I have stated before, I am committed to people being informed. I feel that I have valuable information that needs to be shared in order for individuals to make their own educated decision. I know that when I was serving in the capacity as Director of Operations for the expansion teams, I was insuring that all the proper steps and measures were taken. Granted, I was privileged to a lot of behind the scenes issues, but at the end of the day, I knew the true story. I dealt with matters on a minute-by-minute basis. At no point did I EVER LIE to anyone. I may have not shared everything surrounding an issue that I had the facts to back-up, but I never lied to cover up anything.

As of today, I have not spoken to CG or CS for the past two weeks. I do stay very informed of what is going on with the NIFL. I built a very good professional relationship with a lot of people, including vendors, that have put a lot of energy and time away from their family's in order to make the NIFL successful. But the bottom line is, in order for these teams to make it, it takes MONEY. And in my opinion, the financing needed just simply is NOT there. You can not operate 17 indoor teams successfully without the proper funding. That is why teams still don't have equipment, turf, dasher boards, insurance and footballs. All of theses items are critical and needed in order to play the game. I wouldn't even talk about the extras like transportation, housing and don't forget the paychecks.

[coachld]

After reading this entire thread I feel like I wasted my time. No offense to Magic and others who gave great information...but to the owners of these teams that aren't league owned...I don't feel sorry for any of you. The writing was on the wall last season. I do hope all of you land on your feet in a legit league in your respective regions.

This is a HUGE reason why my site (www.indoorfootballfan.com) does not cover the NIFL. Granted the "soap opera" may bring in more fans, it may bring in more attention, but it also brings something to indoor football that indoor football doesn't need. Another HUGE black eye.

So when is someone going to file suit against these bozos? I'm guessing probably never because financially no one is going to keep up with CS's money.

I would never wish harm on anyone of these players. Please protect yourselves and your futures. I know all of you have dreams and are looking for a shot but the NIFL IS NOT the place to do it.

Good luck to all the fans, coaches, players, and ownership groups taken in by these two degenerates.

I can understand why you would not cover the NIFL but I am thankful for Paul and OSC for providing this message board. If not for OSC, I might have been dumb enough to give the NIFL a go...I had two offers to play but after reading through the message board, I passed on those offers. I think this message board may also be one of the tools neccessary to bring the NIFL down. People may not be willing to file lawsuits but hopefully the law gets involved, especially in regards to the insurance issue.

[hawkeye]

Amen to that. And Paul has some great inside info on the NIFL and Paul has been around the game for as long as anyone.

The NIFL used to be it. Now the NIFL has turned to *expletive*.

Tina Johnson has to be rolling in her grave right now. The good times are gone.

[indoor fan]

Do you have a clue about the APFL? Because to say the APFL is below the NIFL is like saying that AlQuida is braver than our troops. With the APFL you at least know what you're getting. At least there aren't lies about 20+ franchises that don't really exsist. At least we don't have to hear about how players are having to "donate" 40$ of each check back to the league.

Chaotic is not the word to describe the NIFL. Scam is the more appropriate word.

And as far as IFF being bogus...you have a right to your opinion. It's not for everyone. Nor did I say that to compare IFF to OSC or any other site. Paul and I have a good relationship and we both fill a nitche. And I think both of us see what's really going on in the NIFL.

I guess you could fill us in about last years APFL Championship game on the APFL board here. Oh, the APFL does not have a board on here because it's semi pro.

[phydeaux72]

The APFL is far from semi-pro. They may not have it all together when it comes to the PR side of things, at least coming from the league level. But they are certainly a legitimate minor professional indoor football league. With the exception of the Ft. Worth franchise, they seem to be doing OK so far this season.

[tony-o]

I guess you could fill us in about last years APFL Championship game on the APFL board here. Oh, the APFL does not have a board on here because it's semi pro.
Not true. The APFL isn't covered here because Paul hasn't gotten information about the league from the league. Like what phydeaux said, they don't have things right on the PR side.

You figure the name American Professional Football League would have tipped you off that it isn't semi-pro.

[indoor fan]

Not true. The APFL isn't covered here because Paul hasn't gotten information about the league from the league. Like what phydeaux said, they don't have things right on the PR side.

You figure the name American Professional Football League would have tipped you off that it isn't semi-pro.

I don't want to bash the APFL. I actually like the APFL and it's concept. I think the Beaumont Drillers and a San Antonio team would make it a great league.

[rams80]

Not true. The APFL isn't covered here because Paul hasn't gotten information about the league from the league. Like what phydeaux said, they don't have things right on the PR side.

You figure the name American Professional Football League would have tipped you off that it isn't semi-pro.

Well, to be frank, all of these leagues a semi-pro in that you can't make a living out of just being a player. (And if you are, somebody's salary cap rules are being massively violated)

[Bill]

As someone who is a 'former' APFL fan.. One of the Wichita fans who got screwed out of the championship game that our team earned.. in our town..

I can still say this..
To compare this sham, scam, whatever you want to call this current version of the NIFL.. to the APFL is laughable.

While the APFL has never, and probably will never get what little respect the NIFL every had.. It'll never be called the ABA of indoor football. And that may be a low blow to the ABA.

I'll even put more confidence in the YET ANOTHER league one of our Wichita teams is in.. After the IFL Warlords, AF2 Stealth, and APFL Aviators.. Now we have the Wichita Wild.. AND.. I can't even recall the name of the league we are in right now. I'm sure it really is.. semi-pro at best. But Thank God it isn't the NIFL.

[nksports]

AND.. I can't even recall the name of the league we are in right now. I'm sure it really is.. semi-pro at best. But Thank God it isn't the NIFL.

The Wild is more of an independent. They are affiliated with the Central Plains Football League, but their games won't count in those standings. They also are playing four teams out of the outdoor, semi-pro Central Football League. I saw Joplin of the CFL play here in Newton. That is the team leading the CFL North and they aren't that good. I see the Okla. Rhinos Saturday

[Magic]

From sources at Morris Brown, Cleveland Gary called their office stating he was at his uncles (Willie Gary) office. After the second check has bounced, Cleveland Gary wants to try and blame other people for doing bad business. We've also found facts about why Carol Shiver won't get rid of Cleveland Gary. Carol Shiver is "BROKE". It is clear that her ex-husband was truely the reason why the NIFL was a success early on. The money in which Carol Shiver had from her divorce, it's gone. Now Cleveland Gary came in and promise to bring financial stability and expansion to this default league. Cleveland Gary is "BROKE" also. This has been just another one of his soon to be "FRAUD" attempts. Cleveland also told Carol Shiver that his uncle (Willie Gary) will also back him. That was a total lie......his uncle knows Cleveland all to well. The plan was to hire coaches and GM's to build these teams for value, in hopes that they could sale them before the season started. That's why it was delayed almost a month. In this process, Cleveland almost sucked one protential guy out of $75,000 in Florida. The guy had Cleveland Gary and Carol Shiver investigated and found out they both are "CON-ARTIST". He immediately wanted out the deal. Cleveland Gary, wrote this guy a "BAD CHECK", for the money he had invested. Now since Cleveland Gary has been unable to sale any of these priceless teams, he has been stuck with trying to fund all of the expansion teams. Trying to work off of a $20,000 income a month, Cleveland Gary has been very unsuccessiful. Due to Cleveland and Carol being "BROKE", all 500 plus players and coaches on these expansion teams are suffering and looking for answers in which CG and CS won't answer. Instead they lie!!! To the players and coaches, please wise up and use the numbers in which I have provided you with. These people will tell you the truth about the insurance, workman's comp, payroll and lawsuits against the NIFL. Cleveland Gary wants out right now because he knows he has screwed this league up, even more than it already was. Just a couple days ago, Cleveland Gary called a coach in Colorado and tried to get him to "CON" all the teams in Colorado to use one venue. He told the coach, he would send everything needed if this coach would handle that division and just send him his percentage. The coach wasn't stupid and told Cleveland Gary, "HELL NO". Also, I know for a fact, that all the existing owners want Cleveland Gary out of this league. Give it a couple of weeks and see how everything plays out. For every game that Cleveland Gary's teams miss or have missed, he owns the existing owner $25,000 per game. You do the math........

[Magic]

Are you'll wondering where is James Shiver? This league was create for him, so where is he? STAY TUNED, DETAILS COMING SOON.

Wonder why so many coaches have left CG's expansion teams?

Expansion teams traveling on Vans, how professional is that? STAY TUNED!!!

[mrinsideto-u]

1st guess? Humm, Maybe driving a BUS for the company his dad ownes and get this, ready,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,He is a driver that is driving around A2 teams. no crap A2 teams, nice buisness model, go from coaching a NIFL team to driving A2 teams around

[exit322]

I don't know James Shiver at all, but I do think he did a good job coaching teams in the NIFL.

[indoor fan]

Are you'll wondering where is James Shiver? This league was create for him, so where is he? STAY TUNED, DETAILS COMING SOON.

Wonder why so many coaches have left CG's expansion teams?

Expansion teams traveling on Vans, how professional is that? STAY TUNED!!!


A lot more professional than driving your own car or chipping in $20 to pay for a van like most of these players and coaches did at the semi pro level.

If any player or coach is unhappy about playing in the NIFL, then go get hired by an NFL, Arena, Canadian, AF2, IFL, AIFA, WIFL or United Indoor League team. Hell, they just had the NFL draft, try and get drafted next year.

And yet the NIFL games go on. Before you know it, the NIFL playoffs will be here.

[preeths]

And yet the NIFL games go on. Before you know it, the NIFL playoffs will be here.

Closer to half the time they go on...

[nksports]

Carol Shiver is "BROKE". It is clear that her ex-husband was truely the reason why the NIFL was a success early on. The money in which Carol Shiver had from her divorce, it's gone.

"She's so fine, there's no telling where the money went. She's all mine, there's no other way to go."

Simply Irressistable by Robert Palmer.

[TheHulk]

Did Stephanie Fisher ever give the fourth installment? It's really good reading!!!

[Tomcats]

How about this? CS says Atlanta will play at Morris Brown on May 12th as schedule. The team is not even allowed on the grounds first of all and second the field would only be 50 yards including the endzones.

[phydeaux72]

I believe there is a UIF team that plays on a 40 yard field with 3 yard endzones. And I thought that was bad. But 35 yards total? That's just unacceptable.

[TheHulk]

I believe there is a UIF team that plays on a 40 yard field with 3 yard endzones. And I thought that was bad. But 35 yards total? That's just unacceptable.

Hey Jim Terry's circus played on a 25 yd. field. So he holds the record right now. LOL

[Tomcats]

His record is going down if Cleveland sees that post.

[nksports]

The following is comedy captioned for the humor impared and is not an actual endorsement of the law firm being parodied:

"Have you been burned by an indoor football team? Has the check from the league covering your busses bounced? Have you been injured in a game and found out you're team's insurance policy is bogus? Tell the NIFL that YOU MEAN BUSINESS! Call the Law Offices of Paul Hogan. That's 1-800-WIN-WIN1."

[preeths]

On the defense side, I'm reminded of a fake ad from the show Arrested Development:
"Why should you pay for a crime someone else noticed?"

- Bob Loblaw (say it fast three times)

[Magic]

Coming Monday!!!!!!!!

[Magic]

I told you all that there was only a matter of time before Cleveland Gary and Carol Shiver, along with this BS NIFL would unfold.

Most of Colorado has folded, due to a number of reasons. On last Saturday, there was going to be a double hitter and Cleveland Gary's credit card was declined for $300, while trying to pay for a fork lift. There was a semi, with trailor there to pick up turf for these teams, ready to transport, for free. That's shows that if you even give the NIFL something for free, it's still a F**k up.
Then you have Jacksonville, not showing up to play Columbia on Saturday. Well my friends, look at who's their leader.....Cleveland Gary. Your only as strong as your leader, that's suppose to lead by example. Well, in a way, they represented Cleveland Gary well. He never shows up when he's suppose to; funds aren't there when you need them and postponed by Cleveland Gary's BS....AGAIN!!! To be honest, it wasn't the coaches or the players fault. Cleveland Gary didn't want to pay the bus driver the money he owes him and he couldn't pay the $1500 for the trip to Columbia this week. Not to mention, the vans this team had to travel on last Monday to Sarasota in which they didn't get until 5 hours before kick-off. On top of all that, Cleveland only sent $300 to the coach for gas money. Ok, do the math: 3 vans, 400 miles, gas $3.10 per gallon......LOL CHEAP MF. The coach had to return the vans on "EMPTY". Also the players have played 3 games and haven't been paid a penny yet!!!! Do the math:

21 players x $200 a game = $4200 Cleveland Gary owes per game

2 coaches x $400 a game = $800 Cleveland Gary owes per game

$4200 x 3 games = $12,600 $800 x 3 games = $2400

So before last weeks game vs. Columbia, Cleveland Gary owes this team and coaches $15,000; this don't include what David Simmons (Head Coach) has paid out of his pocket. The players told their Head Coach, if Cleveland Gary didn't pay them, they weren't playing......." SO I GUESS THEY WEREN'T PAID".

**CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT VS. CLEVELAND GARY IN THE WORKS***
STAY TUNED TODAY, I HAVE MORE OF THE TRUTH TO SPILL.

[ragefan]

I believe there is a UIF team that plays on a 40 yard field with 3 yard endzones. And I thought that was bad. But 35 yards total? That's just unacceptable.

That would be Evansville Bluecats. It sucks to play there, not only is it 40 yards the end zone is about 5 feet then you run into a wall about 10 feet high. But the owner has some kinda a pull and they get away with it.

[dking5341]

CG needs to {Removed by admin} himself, but he'll try to con himself a way out of that too. Glad the other coaches finally caught on to what Will and myself told them months ago. When you try to screw people, it'll come back to you.

[Magic]

dking, I totally agree with you about Cleveland Gary needing to {Removed by admin} himself! The other thing I might add is that he does Carol Shiver first......but not until I get my money back first.

If everybody remember, let me bring you up to speed about the West Palm Beach owner. This is the guy who gave Cleveland Gary $75,000 to buy the West Palm Beach Waves......anyway, he has sued Cleveland Gary for "FRAUD", and his the court date is June 1st. Reason being, after Jordan couldn't cash the "NSF" check, Cleveland Gary only gave him back $10,000 of the $75,000.

[exit322]

I have NO problem with smaller fields if it's combined with good ownership. No one whined about Rome and their 40ish TOTAL yard field, and no one's really whining about Evansville.

My only requests: Good ownership in that small arena (Rome had, Evansville has), and a yard is marked as a 36-inch yard, none of this 27-inch crap or whatever it was in Rome.

[exit322]

CG needs to {Removed by admin} himself.

Oh yeah, that really removes the meaning, Paul. :P

[dking5341]

Can you believe that CG sold this team for $300+k. The guy was sold off the web site because it was up to date with current events. CG didn't even do the web site, it was one of the players on the team. Needless to say, this guy has paid his players and coaches for the first game. My sources said that he was disappointed when he saw the venue and how things were being ran. CG didn't get that venue, the former coach and the GM did, but you know how CG do things, he took all the credit just like he tried to do in ATL. CG might to CS that he sold the team for only $150k giving her only a little of the paper and pocketing the rest, so he can pay off these lawsuits that are about to happen. I shall say, that he found him a wealthy guy that wants to brag to his friends and family that he owns a team. "Found him a sucka"

[Tomcats]

This is how wide spread CG's rep is; the Gwinnett Center in ATL will not even think about being associated with the NIFL because of CG. The president of the Center said he would not even rent it out if it was paid all up front, because of the things out about the NIFL. I think Magic could probably shed some more on this also. I am pretty sure he has talked to the president of the Center as well.

[GoCavs1]

This is how wide spread CG's rep is; the Gwinnett Center in ATL will not even think about being associated with the NIFL because of CG. The president of the Center said he would not even rent it out if it was paid all up front, because of the things out about the NIFL. I think Magic could probably shed some more on this also. I am pretty sure he has talked to the president of the Center as well.

That is pretty much the same stand Pueblo has with them as well. But they said they MAY consider it if they were payed upfront for the game but are not sure if they would or not..Usually after a league has a bad year they would try to do better the next year not totally bury themselves. I highly doubt..Highly Doubt this league will be around another year. After all the bad press and broken deals I can't see how any other place would take them serious.

[Tomcats]

Owners that still want to be owners of a team best find a league before next year, because not even a roach could survive this.

[Stephanie Fisher]

This is how wide spread CG's rep is; the Gwinnett Center in ATL will not even think about being associated with the NIFL because of CG. The president of the Center said he would not even rent it out if it was paid all up front, because of the things out about the NIFL. I think Magic could probably shed some more on this also. I am pretty sure he has talked to the president of the Center as well.

The Gwinnett Center will not deal with CG due to the unprofessional manner in which they were treated. CG's actions are wide spread and they reflect poorly on the NIFL as a whole.

[Paul S]

Boy oh boy:

This is the best thread on OSC, possibly ever. Thanks to Stephanie and especially Magic for doing something rare in this insane league, getting the truth out.

My in-laws in Sarasota first of all never heard of the Sarasota Knights then when I told them over dinner about this league, they wanted to go and see this first hand, kind of like a motorist rubber necking at an accident.

Good luck to all you guys (and girls) who are involved in this debacle. Watch out for yourselfs and also guilt by association.

I went on to the NIFL site and they also have a board where someone named CLEVELAND is accusing the people of Atlanta franchise from trying to scam him out of travel money, of course all discussion is a little slanted and a lot of replies and new posts are simply "AWAITING REVIEWS BY MODERATOR" in other words, contrary opinions go away.

This whole league gives me the shivers.

[Magic]

Cleveland Gary is the most hated and talked about person in the NIFL. I have coaches calling me, telling me to post "FACTS" that are going on with the franchise that they are trying to run. Got word today that Cleveland Gary sold the San Bernandio franchise.....LOL whoever bought this "WEBSITE" should come see me. I got a league for sale, LOL!!!!! I hope to be talking to this guy on tomorrow. I will make sure he know the truth. I will have him wanting to get his $360,000 back from Cleveland Gary, Carol Shiver and the NIFL. I guess Cleveland Gary will try to give him $10,000 back in a "NSF" check also.

STAY TUNED FOR MORE INFO, COMING UP TOMORROW!!!!!!

[Billy5]

Boy oh boy:

This whole league gives me the shivers.




This league gives me the Shrivers! :eek:

[Magic]

On yesterday, Sarasota played Ft. Myers @ Sarasota. The turf, in which 5teams are sharing: West Palm Beach, Miami, Port St. Lucie, Ft. Myers and Sarasota, didn't arrive at Sarasota's venue until 4p.m., 3 hours before kick-off. The venue officials did an awesome job placing the turf.....you guys are "AWESOME".
Now how NIFL-ish is this???? The officials show up to the venue, but they would start the game........until they were paid for the last game that they weren't paid for by Cleveland Gary.....each referee is "Suppose" to receive $125 per game. I keep telling you people, Cleveland Gary and Carol Shiver are broker than a "Boy George record". The venue management for Sarasota had to pay the referees for Cleveland Gary.....yes this is true, "THE VENUE HAD TO PAY THE REFEREE'S, BEFORE THEY WOULD START THE GAME LASTNIGHT IN SARASOTA". Cleveland Gary is rididulous.

[Tomcats]

Cg is saying there is a game in Atlanta this week with Greensboro, however Atlanta has no venue. CG has liability insurance for practice and playing venues. Here is the catch, he has only made two of the three payments and the insurance is going to cancel, so no one can get proof of liability to show to a venue anymore. So, now home field for Atlanta....

[Magic]

If you think the NIFL or Carol Shiver is done, you better wait until you see her 6 ft. under!!!! And then you can't trust that. Carol Shiver has more lives (lies) than a cat. I've said this all alone, Cleveland Gary truely F-ed up, but Carol Shiver had this all planned out. She know she didn't have the money to fund this league for the 2007 season, so she went and found her a "SUCKA".....aka Cleveland Gary. Got word that Cleveland Gary called the Atlanta coach and apologized for screwing him over and wanted to make amends with him. CG admitted that he was wrong in treating the coach in this manner and apologized that everything went the way it did. Cleveland Gary also insuranced that the coach would receive all money owed to him and that his player and coaches would be paid.....CG promised!!!!
Now back to Carol Shiver! This lady is going to find away to keep this league together. At the end of the day, Cleveland Gary will be the fall guy for everything, and everything wasn't his fault. Carol Shiver lied to the whole Atlanta thoroughbreds team on a conference call, 35 total people heard her lie. I can remember back in 1999, when Carol Shiver tried to take over the IPFL. The IPFL was a first class league......she screwed David out of his league and "CON' most of the teams to come play in a league in which she had built. Carol's mother is a piece of work also. This back office trash has lied to me on several occasions. Carol and her mother are so F-ed up, they sometime impersonate each other. {Removed by admin}

STAY TUNED, WHO HERE REMEMBER'S JOHN FOURCADE???? GET HIS WORDS ON CAROL SHIVER AND THE NIFL!!!!

[bonkers]

This league makes money by selling franchises. They take in a small amount each month from each team for administration dues. That is why they went out this year and tried to sale so many franchises. When it fails they can
go out and resale it to some one else and make there franchise fee again.
That is why they dont really do much of a background check on new owners,
as long as the guy has some money to put up for the franchise, they could care ,less if it makes it.

[OneBetter]

This league makes money by selling franchises. They take in a small amount each month from each team for administration dues. That is why they went out this year and tried to sale so many franchises. When it fails they can
go out and resale it to some one else and make there franchise fee again.
That is why they dont really do much of a background check on new owners,
as long as the guy has some money to put up for the franchise, they could care ,less if it makes it.

You just described the ABA business model. Maybe Cleveland Gary went to ABA University.

[Paul S]

The ABA is good (good at being a bad league) but this NIFL is the worst league possibly in the history of US pro sports. (term - PRO used very lightly)

[Magic]

I tried to warn the entire league that all this was a scam. Now, my friend from Sarasota, player/coach was hurt. Alton Walker tore his ACL and PCL in the last game in Sarasota. When Alton contacted Cleveland Gary and told him what happened, Cleveland said he would get the league to take care of it. As of last Monday, nothing had been taken care of. Alton had to pay a $1000 deposit before the hospital would do surgery on Monday. Cleveland called Alton back and told him that Carol Shiver wasn't going to pay for the surgery and admitted that there was no insurance. Carol said, " every play and coach in the league knew they were independent contractors. Everybody knew they were responsible for their own insurance." This is what I tried to warn people about.......This is why I resign from coaching the Atlanta Thoroughbreds. Cleveland Gary said he fired me.......BS he called me, admitting he was wrong for how he "Tried" to screw the Thoroughbreds over when I was coaching. He admit that he owned me and the rest of the team money and promised to get us paid. I was told to submit all my receipts to the office in Palm Beach, but now no one will answer their phone. LOL, I knew he was BS-ing me again.

STAY TUNED ONCE AGAIN, I HAVE INFO ON THE JUNE 1 LAWSUIT/COURT DATE VS. CLEVELAND GARY........I WILL BE A WITNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OneBetter]

I tried to warn the entire league that all this was a scam. Now, my friend from Sarasota, player/coach was hurt. Alton Walker tore his ACL and PCL in the last game in Sarasota. When Alton contacted Cleveland Gary and told him what happened, Cleveland said he would get the league to take care of it. As of last Monday, nothing had been taken care of. Alton had to pay a $1000 deposit before the hospital would do surgery on Monday. Cleveland called Alton back and told him that Carol Shiver wasn't going to pay for the surgery and admitted that there was no insurance. Carol said, " every play and coach in the league knew they were independent contractors. Everybody knew they were responsible for their own insurance." This is what I tried to warn people about.......This is why I resign from coaching the Atlanta Thoroughbreds. Cleveland Gary said he fired me.......BS he called me, admitting he was wrong for how he "Tried" to screw the Thoroughbreds over when I was coaching. He admit that he owned me and the rest of the team money and promised to get us paid. I was told to submit all my receipts to the office in Palm Beach, but now no one will answer their phone. LOL, I knew he was BS-ing me again.

STAY TUNED ONCE AGAIN, I HAVE INFO ON THE JUNE 1 LAWSUIT/COURT DATE VS. CLEVELAND GARY........I WILL BE A WITNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This is screaming lawsuit! Gosh I hope someone sues them over this. This would definitely bring down the NIFL for good and send Shriver to prison.

[JohnVoliva]

I tried to warn the entire league that all this was a scam. Now, my friend from Sarasota, player/coach was hurt. Alton Walker tore his ACL and PCL in the last game in Sarasota. When Alton contacted Cleveland Gary and told him what happened, Cleveland said he would get the league to take care of it. As of last Monday, nothing had been taken care of. Alton had to pay a $1000 deposit before the hospital would do surgery on Monday. Cleveland called Alton back and told him that Carol Shiver wasn't going to pay for the surgery and admitted that there was no insurance. Carol said, " every play and coach in the league knew they were independent contractors. Everybody knew they were responsible for their own insurance." This is what I tried to warn people about.......This is why I resign from coaching the Atlanta Thoroughbreds. Cleveland Gary said he fired me.......BS he called me, admitting he was wrong for how he "Tried" to screw the Thoroughbreds over when I was coaching. He admit that he owned me and the rest of the team money and promised to get us paid. I was told to submit all my receipts to the office in Palm Beach, but now no one will answer their phone. LOL, I knew he was BS-ing me again.

STAY TUNED ONCE AGAIN, I HAVE INFO ON THE JUNE 1 LAWSUIT/COURT DATE VS. CLEVELAND GARY........I WILL BE A WITNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Problem is, in this situation, the team or league MUST provide W/C for the "independent contractors". I think there MAY be one to two states out there that do not have this requirement, but the rest do.

The only time a business would not have to provide W/C for an independent contractor would be when the person that you use for your business is employed by another business (i.e. temp agency) -- therefore the primary company the person works for provides the W/C. This is what happens in the AF2 -- the players "work" for the league and the work is performed for individual teams. The team then does not have to provide W/C, the league does.

All the independent contractor deal does for you is makes the player pay his own taxes. The team doesn't do federal or state witholdind, FICA, Medicare, etc, etc. The independent contractor (player) does this when his taxes are due.

John

[Rocky]

If the NIFL actually used the "indie contractors don't get insurance" line, it goes 100% against what CS has said in the past. I said this years ago, and Shiver Jr. took offense, but I'll say it again: Liars make baby Jesus cry.

The NIFL couldn't be more of a mess. CS has sunk this league.

[phydeaux72]

All of this should be addressed in the contract that the league has with each individual team, which should then be addressed in the individual player contract. If the league contract holds the individual teams responsible for covering their players, then the teams should be stating that in the contracts that they have with their players. If it's not addressed in either contract, then everyone will start pointing fingers. It would have to be settled in a civil court battle. In most cases, that would cost an injured player more time and money than just paying for his own medical expenses.

Looks like this was all just another scam put on by CS & CG. And like everything else that's gone on with the NIFL this season, the innocent bystanders (players & coaches) are the ones who end up getting shafted the most.

[JohnVoliva]

All of this should be addressed in the contract that the league has with each individual team, which should then be addressed in the individual player contract. If the league contract holds the individual teams responsible for covering their players, then the teams should be stating that in the contracts that they have with their players. If it's not addressed in either contract, then everyone will start pointing fingers. It would have to be settled in a civil court battle. In most cases, that would cost an injured player more time and money than just paying for his own medical expenses.

Looks like this was all just another scam put on by CS & CG. And like everything else that's gone on with the NIFL this season, the innocent bystanders (players & coaches) are the ones who end up getting shafted the most.

and fans and legitimate team owners

[Stephanie Fisher]

Cleveland called Alton back and told him that Carol Shiver wasn't going to pay for the surgery and admitted that there was no insurance. Carol said, " every play and coach in the league knew they were independent contractors. Everybody knew they were responsible for their own insurance."

Below is the email that Carolyn sent me when I was Director of Operations for the league owned teams. CS is very clear that the paper work needed to be filled out completely or their INSURANCE would be not be effective. So CS or CG better step up to the plate and make the situation right with Alton or they might find themselves as a defendant like the NIFL was in the Rapid City Player suit for back injury and Staten Island Extreme injured player.

From: cshiver
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:47 AM
To: Niflweb@cs.com
Subject:

Steph
Attached is the paperwork I need the coaches to have the players fill out.

Also, remember you need to have the forms completely filled out. Skipping a signature or line will make their insurance ineffective and will make it their fault that they are not covered. They are responsible for getting every form completed.
--
Carolyn Shiver
President,
National Indoor Football League