New Jersey/ Long Island Gone

[mike reed]

USBL does it again. No mention of anything, just removed them from the schedule. They are the best at covering up. Mabe a press release stating that these two teams are now defunct????????

[MJHankel]

So, is the IBL any better than this?? I mean things are not looking to good, for the USBL. I had always heard that the USBL was like the CBA and the IBL like the ABA for the spring season. Is this actually true, at least level of play related??

With the USBL, east in jeopardy the midwest teams may consider other options. The IBL is kinda overlapping this area but are they even comparable??

Don't get me wrong I do not want the USBL to split up, I am just considering the possibilities.

[Pounder]

I'm not sure I'd panic about the USBL unless they get below 8 teams. Of course, the news of Albany dropping ticket prices for the remainder of the USBL season is kind of telling, if nothing else.

The league seems to get by with 8.

I'm trying to remember who was in the IBL in year one. I do believe there's been some turnover. They seem to have precautions in place, but the budget is something that I doubt excites the Genesis Center people.

[MJHankel]

I'm trying to remember who was in the IBL in year one. I do believe there's been some turnover. They seem to have precautions in place, but the budget is something that I doubt excites the Genesis Center people.

Please do not be confused, I was just speaking in a general sense of the Midwest division.

Though, you do bring a point though, how much are the fees in the IBL as apposed to the USBL??

Either way, I figure that the USBL can pull through, it just seems that the Eastern divisions is going to be a little worse for wear.

From what I understand the PrimeTime has always been a bit of a joke though, somaybe the USBL is attempting to cut out the crap.

Maybe the New Jersey franchise will wait a season so that they can get their act together.

Having some teams run things at a more CBA style, might help out the future of the league. The existing Midwest franchises can class it up a little.

I do not know but it seems that by weeding out Long Island and New Jersey they may have helped the future appearance of the league, (in the long run).

Time will tell.

[TEN]

What frusturates me the most is that Boston/New Jersey was a mess months ago....why the heck did they even put them on the schedule! Long Island was a mess a year ago and when the USBL got to 10 teams (eight seemingly solid ones) they should have dropped those two...

I think the league will be pretty solid now....but it looks horrible when you drop two teams before they play a game (or one in the case of Jersey). It also screws up our schedule and makes our pocket schedules and schedule posters that just came out, obsolete.

Take it from me....the Midwest teams are just about at the end of their rope...

[bectond]

The WBA is expanding right on the mid-west teams door steps.....
However, I think the loss of NJ and LI only makes the league stronger.
I see those teams folding as a positive.

[TEN]

I don't think the WBA will be an option for the USBL Midwest teams...just more of the soap opera of the USBL at a lower level of play...

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Who wants to see Gary beating-up on IBL teams by over fifty points night after night? Heck, the two big wins over Jackson were like watching Boys to Men. Those games were over after the first three minutes of play.

Best case scenario is to fix the USBL. All efforts should go toward finding a travel partner (or two) for Gary. Once that is done the league can stablize, schedules can come out sooner, and marketing can be more effective.

[HAC]

Best options are to revamp the USBL front office and quit trying to start up franchises in the East.

League should have done more to help keep Nebraska in the league and it made a big mistake in screwing the solid franchise it had in Iowa a couple years ago (long story).

League should have done more to put teams in the Southeast where it has a franchise in Florida dying to get in the league.

Instead, they continue on this path to nowhere with bumbling East Coast teams.

[HAC]

I think the league will be pretty solid now


There are solid franchises WITHIN the league and DESPITE the league.

The league is nowhere close to being solid, and I cannot see how anybody would come back for 2008.

Right now, if I'm a sponsor an/or season ticket holder who has yet to write my check, I'd definitely think about not doing so.

[TEN]

HAC, I'll clarify my statement....

Most of the teams LEFT in the USBL are solid...

[BreakersFan]

So, is the IBL any better than this?? I mean things are not looking to good, for the USBL. I had always heard that the USBL was like the CBA and the IBL like the ABA for the spring season. Is this actually true, at least level of play related??

With the USBL, east in jeopardy the midwest teams may consider other options. The IBL is kinda overlapping this area but are they even comparable??

Don't get me wrong I do not want the USBL to split up, I am just considering the possibilities.

This is my post from the "ABA Officials" thread in the ABA forum:

I can't speak to the basketball quality of the IBL, but in terms of stability, players getting paid, games being played, it is far better than the USBL or WBA. The USBL in particular has really fallen the last few seasons.

The IBL website is also far superior to the other two, and is actually updated on game nights. The IBL does have some goofy aspects (like the goofy schedule where teams play differerent number of games), but overall does much better than the USBL or WBA.

Most importantly, the league has on more than one occasion taken over a team (Lansing) to make sure it played its schedule. They also have a handful of teams that are actually getting 2000+ butts in the seats on a regular basis, which is much more than a USBL or WBA team gets on any occasion.

There are some other IBL thoughts in that thread. While that is all positive, I don't see the Dodge City's and Gary's of the world going to the IBL. I'd sooner see them form a new spring league and leave the USBL hijinks behind.

The IBL is clearly the most stable and most professionally run of the three spring leagues, but the quality of play leads me to think the best option is a (gasp) new league.

[HAC]

HAC, I'll clarify my statement....

Most of the teams LEFT in the USBL are solid...

I knew what you meant, just didn't want the newcomers to think it was the LEAGUE that was now solid.

Man, it's hard to tell where this will all lead.

Wonder if the league will even bother with a press release?

[BreakersFan]

What frusturates me the most is that Boston/New Jersey was a mess months ago....why the heck did they even put them on the schedule! Long Island was a mess a year ago and when the USBL got to 10 teams (eight seemingly solid ones) they should have dropped those two...

I think the league will be pretty solid now....but it looks horrible when you drop two teams before they play a game (or one in the case of Jersey). It also screws up our schedule and makes our pocket schedules and schedule posters that just came out, obsolete..

I agree that the league is better off without these two. But I also agree that this should have been dealt with months ago. Long Island was on life support last season - and Boston's issues were evident in the delay of the announcement/schedule. My point is that these were NOT sudden situations that had to be dealt with. The league could have gone with 8 teams and looked much better.

You have to question the leadership here. Who is running this thing? The league president hasn't made any public comment in 2 years. The league's last filing (I am a USBL stockholder - I know, I know) showed $35K cash on hand along with a$150K judgement owed by the league to the owner of the Westchester Wildfire. The league's only revenue comes from franchise fees. This thing is so upside down it is really ridiculous.

[HAC]

I agree that the league is better off without these two. But I also agree that this should have been dealt with months ago. Long Island was on life support last season - and Boston's issues were evident in the delay of the announcement/schedule. My point is that these were NOT sudden situations that had to be dealt with. The league could have gone with 8 teams and looked much better.

You have to question the leadership here. Who is running this thing? The league president hasn't made any public comment in 2 years. The league's last filing (I am a USBL stockholder - I know, I know) showed $35K cash on hand along with a$150K judgement owed by the league to the owner of the Westchester Wildfire. The league's only revenue comes from franchise fees. This thing is so upside down it is really ridiculous.

Yeah, but last year's USBL executive of the year came from the USBL office. Guess there won't be a repeat winner.

[MJHankel]

Wow, I am impressed. The league actually admitted the 2 teams leaving, and even put out an apology.

http://www.usbl.com/currentNews.php?news_id=214

[TEN]

I don't pay much attention to the IBL, but was told by some coaches and players last year that the IBL was pretty shaky last year behind the scenes.

The quality of play issue is not much of a contest. The USBL will probably be better quality of playwise than the CBA was this winter. There will be a lot of CBA and D-league guys in the USBL making 400 to 700 a week...I believe you make 50 bucks or so a game in the IBL...

Now when I say that...There will be teams at the CBA, D-League level....and some teams at the ABA level....It's just up to the teams at the higher level to pick up wins against the lower level teams!

I know a coach who coaches in the USBL and the D-league who told me that there are USBL teams that could compete in the D-league.

For what it is, the IBL has not done a bad job...

[panchess]

..evidently the Patroons thought that most of their fans would just keep going into the spring. I think the Micheal Ray Richardson controversy hurt in the short-run, and that the USBL season will help the Patroons in the long run, simply because one way or another, there will be a different story to end the season than Micheal Ray.

The cutting ticket prices (and general admission seating at the Armory) were panicky, bad ideas. The letting a kid in free is a good idea, if they adjust the schedule to have some day games that would be more practical for the 12 and under set. The Michigan Mayhem (and probably some other teams) had an 11 a.m. start each year for school groups, and drew far better than average crowds.

It's a work in progress, but the USBL has gotten off on the wrong foot in Albany.

[MJHankel]

Being how it has been, why doesn't the USBL try to pick up pre-existing teams? I mean another CBA or possibly even a D-League team could play like Alabany.

A good ABA or IBL team could switch over.

They seriously do need to try to build more southeast the Brevard Blue Ducks (http://www.brevardblueducks.com/) have been playing exhibition seasons yearly and have a good fanbase, and have been successful financially.

Instead of trying to bring a new team from nothing why not find a proven team and entice them a little.

The league needs to set standards and when their own team was a joke, the whole thing looks terrible.

Incidentally, I would agree that the USBL's website looks rather amateurish. When I first saw it, I thought it was for a youth league. They do not update it. They do not even have the divisions listed on it. The WBA even has a better website (http://www.wbaball.net/). They want an image of being more of a pro league and not a step down from the CBA or NCAA, the website does help (people are shallow). I do not see why they can not have running scores for the current games either like the CBA or like most minor league baseball league sites. Ok, those were just my annoyances...

[HAC]

Wow, I am impressed. The league actually admitted the 2 teams leaving, and even put out an apology.

http://www.usbl.com/currentNews.php?news_id=214

Pooh. I'd be more impressed if they apologized for PUTTING the teams in the league in the first place.

I'm guessing most pre-existing teams don't want to play ball in the spring-summer or they'd already be doing it.

And some probably don't want to go back-to-back seasons, that's pretty exhausting work and most players are probably ready for a change of scenary.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

...I do not see why they can not have running scores for the current games either like the CBA or like most minor league baseball league sites. Ok, those were just my annoyances...

I often compare baseball to basketball too, but in all fairness baseball can draw upon a larger pool of interns to help with website management and public relations. Summer vacation is the best time to do an internship and for most colleges on the semester system, that time has not arrived yet.

The USBL is a lower cost league than the CBA for a reason. Dodge City has stepped-up to maintain the league message board. Other teams are going to have to step-up as well to make sure photos and news are updated on the league website. The USBL doesn't seem to have the personnel to do it alone.

[MJHankel]

That is pretty much what I have been thinking. Yes, the PrimeTime was a joke and the Meteors probably should have waited till next season, but the remaining teams, at least the strong ones, need to class things up a bit.

Like, you said before, the Steelheads simply took the initiative to broadcast the Draft, the Legends took the effort to offer a Forum. The fact is maybe the league lacks alone, but each team can take this league and make it as good or as week as possible. Maybe the League can't update at all time. The teams can offer more though.

Having the Patroons and Steelheads, sets a higher standard, the Legends do a lot and the Cagerz just did not have a great example, (I am liking their new website).

When their are teams with no website, no press, no fans, it gives other teams nothing to shoot for. Having competition for looking good makes everybody try harder.

[HAC]

Having the Patroons and Steelheads, sets a higher standard, the Legends do a lot and the Cagerz just did not have a great example, (I am liking their new website).

When their are teams with no website, no press, no fans, it gives other teams nothing to shoot for. Having competition for looking good makes everybody try harder.

Not sure what you think the Cagerz need to do, but IMO they are the standard bearer for the league. It's why they've been a multiple host to the post-season tourney. I've been to games in Dodge, Oklahoma and now-defunct Nebraska and liked them all.

Press releases are pointless when the local media is at practices and games and talks with the coaches every day. And no other cities are going to write about what's going on with the team in Salina. Just as the media in Salina isn't going to write about what's going on in the other USBL cities.

The Patroons and Steelheads have yet to finish their first season. Many teams haven't started with a bang and not been around for year two. They may very well be awesome, but let's see. (I did read about the kookiness in Albany at the end of its CBA season, so not sure about them anyway.)

The Steelheads broadcast the draft. That's nice, but so what? How many people actually sat around and listened to it?

Fans want a reliable schedule, a competitive local team and games played at a decent facility.

Web sites, press releases ... fans don't care about that stuff and it doesn't put butts in the seats. For those that do like that stuff, just read the news stories on OSC and join the forum.

All I ask from the USBL site is updated standings and stats. I don't care what it looks like. Just make it up to date. The USBL staff is much larger than the Cagerz' staff and probably most other teams' staffs.

If that's not enough people, then go find some interns.

OK, I need a brewski (which you also need at games.)

[MJHankel]

I was not saying anything negative, about the Cagerz, on the contrarty I am impressed with them and the Legend more than any other team.

My point about "no website, no press, no fans" bringing down the league, it sets a lower standard for teams. The fact that there was no press coverage or website for LI made it nearly impossible to follow that team.

Having a continually updated website is crucial, it is not possible for the average fan to come to every game. Having a website, press, and broadcasts creates fans instead of just patrons.

Movie theaters have patrons. Team fans need to be able to follow their team when they can not be in attendance and at away games. Without this people would just be coming to games like they go to movies. Each time is just that time. There is no fandom if you no nothing except when you are there.

My point about different teams offering different services is that it sets a higher standard than the PrimeTime and the vast ABA.

I don't know what Albany will amount to in the USBL but scores were offered on the CBA website so they did not have to think about that than. They may want to consider offering things themselves that the CBA did for them.

Teams build fanbase by giving people what they want. I again must point out I was impressed by them. They facilitate the possibility for fans to follow the team.

[TEN]

Just to clarify some things....

The Legend really don't have much to do with the message board...That was started by a fan....Hey tubaman! and is moderated by fans....

I have to disagree with HAC...I think it is very important to put out press releases because we got them out to about 25 different newspapers and radio stations in the area...and some of those small papers and stations gave us great coverage. I think that the Cagerz expect that the Salina Journal and KSAL will cover them enough...but there are a lot of other areas that don't get the info....(Hays Daily News, Concordia, McPherson, etc).

You can't expect radio stations just to pull information out of the Salina Journal...

The main reason why press releases are great....they're free!

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Press releases are pointless when the local media is at practices and games and talks with the coaches every day. And no other cities are going to write about what's going on with the team in Salina. Just as the media in Salina isn't going to write about what's going on in the other USBL cities...

The Steelheads broadcast the draft. That's nice, but so what? How many people actually sat around and listened to it?

...Web sites, press releases ... fans don't care about that stuff and it doesn't put butts in the seats. For those that do like that stuff, just read the news stories on OSC and join the forum.


I couldn't disagree with you more. Press releases are an essential and economical method of promoting a team. Essential because teams must reach-out to the public. What better way than to alert the mass media? Economical because the sender of a press release can travel the information highway without rising from their chair.

How many people actually sat around and listened to the live broadcast of the Steelheads draft party? Oh, I don't know. How about fans that wanted to attend the party, but were unable to? How about players and families of players interested in the USBL draft?

The same can be said for team/league websites. This is the year 2007. Of course fans care about websites. Of course websites help put butts in seats.

[MJHankel]

Incidentally, what happened in the Gary/Delaware game??

I was in class from 6-10 so I could not listen to the game. (This is why I wish there was an active scoreboard online)

[HAC]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on press releases and web sites.

My point is that I don't think they're important enough to spend money and other resources that could be used elsewhere.

IMO, they would be great job opportunities for interns, but even interns want a little $$.

In the early days the Cagerz sent out releases to other communities, but aside from an occasional brief in the Lawrence paper about what a KU player did there wasn't much response.

Fixing the league is not as easy as sprucing up web sites. Hey, I'm a stat nut and love web sites, but I don't judge a team or league by those things.

The Cagerz have been inconsistent with their site over the years, but it doesn't reflect the organization. (And I'm not saying the Cagerz do everything right, I've commented on what I believe are their shortcomings more than once.)

Most fans are going to the games for the social atmosphere. It's something to do. At least that's how it is in Salina. They're not scanning the Web for USBL info. Heck, there's only a handful of people who are on either USBL forum.

ANYWAY, this thread digresses .....

TWO TEAMS are gone and no press releases or Web sites can make that look good.

[panchess]

..Jim Coyne's comment in the Times-Union hits it. "Some people who want to own teams get involved and think it's going to be easy. It's never easy."

If it was, we'd all own teams.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Incidentally, what happened in the Gary/Delaware game??

I was in class from 6-10 so I could not listen to the game. (This is why I wish there was an active scoreboard online)

Could not listen to the game? Heck, I've had some 4:30 to 9:30pm classes where I couldn't even listen to the professor.

The game was another laugher. Delaware seems to have a stronger squad than Jackson (better uniforms for sure, although extremely baggy).

[MJHankel]

..Jim Coyne's comment in the Times-Union hits it. "Some people who want to own teams get involved and think it's going to be easy. It's never easy."

If it was, we'd all own teams.

I also liked what Jewell Harris Jr. said, on the matter:

http://www.post-trib.com/sports/346124,steelies.article

Jewell Harris Jr., one of the Steelheads' co-owners, said the dropouts don't spell doom for the league.

"I'd rather have this happen sooner than later," he said. "I don't want weak teams in the league, so I see this as positive. If you can't afford to be in the league, then you need to leave."

[HAC]

Nobody should see anything about this "as a positive."