The Owners Reactions ...

[The Magician]

Let's utilize this thread to hear what the ABA Owners have to say about the ABA Meetings!

If you have a specific question for the Owners, go ahead and ask it under this thread.

Let me thank the owners in advance! [DWS]

[communityhoops]

two very basic questions:

1 - why is owning an ABA team a good investment for you?

2 - for those that are no longer with the ABA - why?

i do hope that the non-owners that use this board will not offer answers here but good luck with that.

[The Magician]

It would interesting to hear what Mr. Tom McGinn of the Quad-City Riverhawks and the Sauk Valley Rollers had to say at the meetings ...

http://www.qctimes.com/articles/2007/04/12//sports//doc461dc219d66a0960049275.txt

[preeths]

“We’re going to do our own scheduling,” he said. “I cannot wait like we did last year to have the league put our schedule out and then revise it. Because if we don’t have a schedule by the end of July, we might as well not even host these games, because we won’t get a chance to promote them.”

This quote from McGinn concerns me. It's well and good to try to take scheduling into your own hands, but what happens when the league adds or loses three or four more teams in your division after you've already set your schedule? I can assure you that it was not Mr. Hester's idea to revamp the sked numerous times before, and after, the season opener last year. He had to do it because the league kept adding and dropping teams.

[tbayz1]

anyone here, hear anything bout the meeting today??

[a1sports]

No real meeting today...just some tables set up and people walking around.
Lots of Joes family around..kids all over the place.
At award dinner Vermont walked away with all the awards etc etc
Joe says he will talk about the bad people tomorrow and how they almost ruined the ABA and how he got rid of them

really no buzz...maybe 15 owners showed up so far.

[The Magician]

really no buzz ... maybe 15 owners showed up so far.

Only 15 owners in attendance today :confused: (Was there a Roll Call?)

[LASportsFan]

No real meeting today...just some tables set up and people walking around.
Lots of Joes family around..kids all over the place.
At award dinner Vermont walked away with all the awards etc etc
Joe says he will talk about the bad people tomorrow and how they almost ruined the ABA and how he got rid of them

really no buzz...maybe 15 owners showed up so far.

So if that's true, Joe didn't do any planning for the meeting. He wasted a valuable day of having at least SOME owners all present in the same room. What a complete waste. If I were one of those 15 owners that actually cared, I would be furious at this point and demanding an explanation.

Owners, is this the type of league you want to be a part of? How hard is it to plan a 2 day meeting? You could pull a successful meeting off with just a little up-front planning, but apparently even that is too much for these screwballs to do.

I have absolutely NO sympathy after this point for any owner that decides to stay in the ABA next year, including Alex and the Heaves.

[carterpatterson]

Guys! Just to add more to the discussion....I enjoyed the informal meetings today. I spent valuable time talking with Jacksonville and Vermont and other owners about what works and what does not. Today was always planned to be an informal meeting day.

I met Joe, Brad and Susie for the first time in person. There were vendors showing stat systems, uniforms, websites as well.

I'm looking forward to the day tomorrow.

[tbayz1]

was Todd Wier (buffalo owner) in attendence?

what other team owners besides Vermont, Jax, and Atlanta if anyone knows

and carter, can u get specific with the discussions and convos that i had?

[a1sports]

So day one is informal..LOL, you walk around and talk to the couple of owners that are there to get some tips. Like, No one in the ABA can use a phone during the season.

Day two will be Joe at his best and I will have it all here for you.
the tv deals, the apparel, the pod casting, the bus leases, the entertainment etc etc. Same show different year, and of course he will have a docu-drama explaining how the evil Salley and Doyle almost ruined the ABA, and then there is monster Rochester !

Now if there were smart owners there they would ask good questions...but there arent any. Its all very self serving. right Alex? Its all whats in this for me? The ABA is as strong as your weakest team..and there is about 34 of them, no wait I think 44 of them...lets wait a sec,,,ok there are 58 of them.

someone should ask Joe what happened to all the investors money in the ABA? Ask the CFO why he lets Joes wife pay his country club dues with public funds? nahhhh , takes smarts to ask that.

The best is,,,there are NO owners there who bought ABA stock,,LOL. The two owners who did, Maryland and Rochester are not in the ABA. LOL, amazing. Oh Joe will be pushing the ABA stock,( well actually the BUffalo owner will) remember Joe has over 2.5 million shares....so you owners can make him rich by spending your money on your team that has NO VALUE in the ABA to pump up the stock.

YAWN....I can hear Joe now, IM excited for the upcoming year, I guarantee no games will be missed.

Best guess at the number of owners there by Friday still stands at 27 tops !!

[communityhoops]

and carter, can u get specific with the discussions and convos that i had?

tbayz1...who are you? convos that I had?

y don't you tell us?

[tbayz1]

tbayz1...who are you? convos that I had?

y don't you tell us?


no no i wasnt asking you, my ques was for "carterpatterson" my mistake i shoulda typed out the whole name instead of carter

[a1sports]

During Breakfast now...he was really knocking leagues,first the CBA,,,usuall stuff,,,80 different teams over 60 years, stuff on D. Ford. They stole ABA teams., then he went for the PBL...they have no money they will never get off the ground they will take your money and not open up... this as he casually strolled around the room.

He is GOOD. Really believable...amazing, just amazing.

[tbayz1]

"a1" its sounds like your right there at the owners meeting, are you, or are one or some of you connections or sources there telling ya stuff

[Fells]

During Breakfast now...he was really knocking leagues,first the CBA,,,usuall stuff,,,80 different teams over 60 years, stuff on D. Ford. They stole ABA teams., then he went for the PBL...they have no money they will never get off the ground they will take your money and not open up... this as he casually strolled around the room.

He is GOOD. Really believable...amazing, just amazing.

What I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall at that meeting. Damn, I wish I didn't have a company retreat to go to today so I can watch the boards to see what is going on. Dammit, this is better than most comedy shows.

[The Magician]

Sat., April 14
3:00 pm EST

ABA All Access Show # 37
Interviews with various owners attending the Spring Owners Meetings in Indianapolis, IN on April 12, 2007

http://www.audiosportsonline.net/ABA/AllAccess.htm?abalive

[The Magician]

Was there a Roll Call this morning?

[tbayz1]

doubt it lol

[besl]

Was there a Roll Call this morning?

There was a roll call, and here are the teams that are present. There are probably a couple teams present that I might have missed:

Orange County
San Diego
Texas
Jacksonville
Detroit
Palm Beach
Mississauga
Ventura, CA
Shreveport
Twin City
Rochester, MN
Kentucky
Peoria, IL
Rio Grande Valley
Sauk Valley
Quad City
Baltimore
Alexandria, VA
Minnesota
Atlanta
Bellingham
Halifax
Vermont
Syracuse, NY
Redding, PA
Strong Island
Wilmington
Portland
Mississippi
Tucson
Phoenix
Tampa Bay
Sacramento
Cape Cod
Corning, NY

[tbayz1]

no Buffalo???

[The Sweeper]

I know you say that you might have missed some, but I dont see Quebec City or Montreal on the list.

[The Magician]

There was a roll call ...

Thanks besl :mrgreen:

Not nearly 70 teams :confused: ... and 37 teams not represented thus far :confused:

Wow! What happened OWNERS ??? And I thought it was mandatory for expansion teams?

It will be interesting to see what the NEW Divisional/Conference breakdowns are ... because it doesn't look too promising in the EAST right now. Looks like the WEST didn't want to show up in force, that's not too good?

2006-2007 Teams not accounted for thus far:

1] King County
2] Big Valley
3] Las Vegas
4] Toledo
5] Rochester
6] Quebec
7] Buffalo
8] Cape Cod
9] Montreal
10] Beijing
11] Hollywood
12] Gallup
13] Maywood
14] Tijuana
15] Aurora
16] Arkansas
17] Monterrey
18] Waco
19] Maryland
20] Tennessee
21] Southern Alabama
22] Knoxville * Organization/Staff attending WBA Free Agent Camp & Draft in Marietta, Georgia
23] Orlando
24] Miami
25] Mexicali

2007-2008 Expansion Teams not accounted for thus far:

1] Providence
2] Delaware
3] Ohio
4] Rome * Organization/Staff attending WBA Free Agent Camp & Draft in Marietta, Georgia
5] Birmingham
6] Corpus Christi
7] Lawton
8] Las Vegas
9] Long Beach
10] Chicago Throwbacks
11] Chicago Cometas de Chicago
12] Fayetteville

New Expansion Teams per roll call:

1] Shreveport
2] Portland
3] Tucson

Updates to attendee list:
Anderson
St. Louis
Houston
Brooklyn
Newark
Henderson - Expansion

[besl]

I can confirm that Buffalo is not present today. Montreal and Quebec I don't believe are here either.

[tbayz1]

thanks besl

now can anyone tell me why Buffalo isnt there? And im guessing the owner wasnt their yesterday either

i havent had the chance to talk with my connections this week, i was going to go Tues to talk but i couldnt go for a few reasons

[LASportsFan]

I wonder wha happened to cglue (Larry) and the Houston Takers? I'm surprised he's not at the meeting. He's been on the boards for some time now asking for suggestions. He definitely stated he was going to attend the meetings. Hopefully he'll show up today and ask some hard questions.

[a1sports]

Maryland is gone from the ABA. More than likely to the PBL.

Also heard from 2 owners at the meeting they are there just to see whats up. ( more of the same)and will probably leave also.

[The Magician]

Hopefully, we will get some initial reactions to the discussions that have taken place thus far ...

[a1sports]

He spent a good amount of time always interjecting that the schedule problems, amd all the ABA problems were Doyles Fault..and Joe acceots full responsibility that he didnt pay attention becuase he was wrapped up in saving the ABA.

(The take over was jan 31. 2007...by then 47 games were already cancelled and 8 teams gone) Nice try Joe

I give credit to Mike of vermont....Joe says...Mike tells us about all that money you made in having that radio deal.... Mike says..we didnt make any money!
Joe gave him the evil eye.

Brad...( Mr. Lowes, the nails are in ailse 6) made no sense and kept saying he is a people person, he loves people....He will have a schedule ready by July...yea yea

They will have a puch list and if owners dont meet the punch list they wont be allowed to play....yea yea repeat of the past 4 years

And Joe said...Rochester didnt leave..he kicked them out. An owner asked..why do the good teams leave the ABA..and he mentioned a bunch of teams no longer in the ABA...Joe says all those teams were Kicked out..Blatant lies and half of the owners sit there in a daze.

MORE TO COME !!

[carterpatterson]

Magicman! Where's Birmingham? We need you my friend!

TBayz...I'll give you my two cents after the meeting...sometime during the weekend. Appreciate everybody's feedback. There are lots being discussed that you guys want discussed and more to happen this afternoon. I'm not here to air out all the laundry on the league, but I will say that this meeting is positive in my eye.

[Minor League Man]

My guess is Quebec and Montreal are leaving, and Buffalo might too.

And is the Portland expansion team Oregon or Maine?

[carterpatterson]

fyi...Henderson and St. Louis are here.

[a1sports]

Joe was more nervous than his usual salesman-self this morning. Got frustrated at questions. Didnt answer questions truthfully.

Best Joe moment of the morning:

Rio Valley owner>> Joe are you screening new owners?
Joe>>> " We screen everybody"
Rio Valley>>> " We have been around for a year waiting to play and you didnt screen us"
Joe>>> Ok, Ill screen you guys today.

LOL LOL

The MOOD on the meeting.....Apprehension and distrust. I think...just maybe...some of the owners see what he really is now.

This afternoon>>> ABA stock sales pitch.

3 owners have left at noon...shaking there heads.

This is a total waste of time. last count I have 29 owners out of 62 teams.

Joe announces NO MORE NEW TEAMS after Today......yea yea

[The Magician]

Magicman! Where's Birmingham? We need you my friend!

The Magicians are officially evaluating and exploring which direction to take in 2007-08 and decided to not attend this round of ABA meetings.

How can I be of help CP? [DWS]

[Minor League Man]

The Magicians are officially evaluating and exploring which direction to take in 2007-08 and decided to not attend this round of ABA meetings.

How can I be of help CP? [DWS]
If you ultimately decide to leave the ABA, where are you most likely to go?

[The Magician]

If you ultimately decide to leave the ABA, where are you most likely to go?

That the Magicians owner has been contacted by some of the other leagues regarding the team's status, but no formal interest has been extended toward participating in any of the other leagues at this time.

[a1sports]

Apparently a few owners have been wined and dined by the PBL in Chicago.

The PBL paid for the airline tickets and hotel. They had to sign a confidentiallity agrement. The got a 30 plus page application. They were told a backround check is required.

The one owner said....They are ready and have the funds to have a league.
A league represenative has to see the venue and lease and business set up prior to acceptance into the league.

Very professional presentation.

ABA was mentioned at the meeeting and all that was said..was. "We wish the other league the best of luck" end of discussion.

[Minor League Man]

Apparently a few owners have been wined and dined by the PBL in Chicago.

The PBL paid for the airline tickets and hotel. They had to sign a confidentiallity agrement. The got a 30 plus page application. They were told a backround check is required.

The one owner said....They are ready and have the funds to have a league.
A league represenative has to see the venue and lease and business set up prior to acceptance into the league.

Very professional presentation.

ABA was mentioned at the meeeting and all that was said..was. "We wish the other league the best of luck" end of discussion.
Sounds very professional...But I think confidentiality agreements are about as stupid as noncompete clauses. I mean, wouldn't you want to tell about it as soon as it's official so you could work on PR to sell tickets, sponsorship, etc.?

Other than that, very professional job by the PBL.

[tbayz1]

Magicman! Where's Birmingham? We need you my friend!

TBayz...I'll give you my two cents after the meeting...sometime during the weekend. Appreciate everybody's feedback. There are lots being discussed that you guys want discussed and more to happen this afternoon. I'm not here to air out all the laundry on the league, but I will say that this meeting is positive in my eye.

thanks "cp" much appreciated not only be me but everyone else on the board


and no one knows where Todd Wier(buffalo) is, i guess "besl" said he wasnt at the ABA meeting, could he be possibly be at the PBL meeting? maybe Quebec and Montreal also, cos arent they owned by the same person? anyone with info on this, it would be greatly appreciated to know whats going on

[jamesaba]

carterpatterson, any idea who a1sports is? sounds like he or she is in the meeting room with you...since I doubt a1 will fess up to their true identity.

so who is at the meeting, who is an aba insider, who has a laptop at the meeting?

[zeke41]

There was a roll call, and here are the teams that are present. There are probably a couple teams present that I might have missed:

Orange County
San Diego
Texas
Jacksonville
Detroit
Palm Beach
Mississauga
Ventura, CA
Shreveport
Twin City
Rochester, MN
Kentucky
Peoria, IL
Rio Grande Valley
Sauk Valley
Quad City
Baltimore
Alexandria, VA
Minnesota
Atlanta
Bellingham
Halifax
Vermont
Syracuse, NY
Redding, PA
Strong Island
Wilmington
Portland
Mississippi
Tucson
Phoenix
Tampa Bay
Sacramento
Cape Cod
Corning, NY



No one there for the Orlando Aces??? Oh...that's right...I'm in Orlando right now, and I'm the only one that really did anything for the team this year. LOL

And they said I couldn't get a Kissimmee reservation because Orlando was too close...too close to what....folding?

[Minor League Man]

No one there for the Orlando Aces??? Oh...that's right...I'm in Orlando right now, and I'm the only one that really did anything for the team this year. LOL

And they said I couldn't get a Kissimmee reservation because Orlando was too close...too close to what....folding?
I thought Mississauga, Ventura, and Alexandria were dead in the water!

And you couldn't get Kissimmee because of Orlando? This from the same guy who allows THREE teams in Chicagoland and FIVE teams in greater Los Angeles?

[besl]

I wonder wha happened to cglue (Larry) and the Houston Takers? I'm surprised he's not at the meeting. He's been on the boards for some time now asking for suggestions. He definitely stated he was going to attend the meetings. Hopefully he'll show up today and ask some hard questions.

Larry/cglue is in fact at the meeting. He either arrived late or I missed his name during roll call.

[LASportsFan]

I thought Mississauga, Ventura, and Alexandria were dead in the water!

And you couldn't get Kissimmee because of Orlando? This from the same guy who allows THREE teams in Chicagoland and FIVE teams in greater Los Angeles?

I don't think anyone has ever accused Joe of being logical.

[tbayz1]

r u a team owner besl?

[zeke41]

Let me just tell you all what a crock of garbage my year has been:

I have an Hispanic television deal with Azteca America, who also has their own journalists who will translate EVERY press release I ask them to into Spanish and distribute it to all of their ntworks.

They also have an AM station

They just wanted to be our only Hispanic television coverage (banner, link on website, etc.)

Get this --- Kissimmee is 45% Hispanic! Ticket sales??? Uhh...easily.

They offfered me a table to sell Season tickets and promiote the team at the Hispanic Expo coming in late April - Thousands of people will attend.

We were going to play at the newly remodeled (and beautiful) Civic Center, which seats like 3,000+

That's not the best....get this: I HAD DEE BROWN COMMIT TO FRONTING
150K, and, of course, with Dee Brown's name recognition, sponsorship sales would've been a whole lot easier than it was this year.

Now, with all that, I decide to move forward and get the rerservation, and I get, "I'm sorry...we have to get you all farther from the Orlando market. It's too close."

Okay...6 teams played under 30 miles from each other (2 played 14 miles apart), but...okay, I guess there will be no team, because...I just bought a house, my wife's an attorney and we are not moving, and I'm not driving an hour plus to work!

Isn't that crazy???

[The Magician]

This afternoon>>> ABA stock sales pitch.

0.19 Cents
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=ABKB.OB

[LASportsFan]

Let me just tell you all what a crock of garbage my year has been:

I have an Hispanic television deal with Azteca America, who also has their own journalists who will translate EVERY press release I ask them to into Spanish and distribute it to all of their ntworks.

They also have an AM station

They just wanted to be our only Hispanic television coverage (banner, link on website, etc.)

Get this --- Kissimmee is 45% Hispanic! Ticket sales??? Uhh...easily.

They offfered me a table to sell Season tickets and promiote the team at the Hispanic Expo coming in late April - Thousands of people will attend.

We were going to play at the newly remodeled (and beautiful) Civic Center, which seats like 3,000+

That's not the best....get this: I HAD DEE BROWN COMMIT TO FRONTING
150K, and, of course, with Dee Brown's name recognition, sponsorship sales would've been a whole lot easier than it was this year.

Now, with all that, I decide to move forward and get the rerservation, and I get, "I'm sorry...we have to get you all farther from the Orlando market. It's too close."

Okay...6 teams played under 30 miles from each other (2 played 14 miles apart), but...okay, I guess there will be no team, because...I just bought a house, my wife's an attorney and we are not moving, and I'm not driving an hour plus to work!

Isn't that crazy???

I feel for you, Zeke. That makes no sense, but maybe it is all for the best. Do you actually want to be associated with the ABA now? Best of luck with your bid to bring the PBL to Kissimmee.

[The Magician]

Isn't that crazy???

"Got Hosed!" :mad:

[I think the ABA CEO is the person under the Micky Mouse costume]

[tbayz1]

Let me just tell you all what a crock of garbage my year has been:

I have an Hispanic television deal with Azteca America, who also has their own journalists who will translate EVERY press release I ask them to into Spanish and distribute it to all of their ntworks.

They also have an AM station

They just wanted to be our only Hispanic television coverage (banner, link on website, etc.)

Get this --- Kissimmee is 45% Hispanic! Ticket sales??? Uhh...easily.

They offfered me a table to sell Season tickets and promiote the team at the Hispanic Expo coming in late April - Thousands of people will attend.

We were going to play at the newly remodeled (and beautiful) Civic Center, which seats like 3,000+

That's not the best....get this: I HAD DEE BROWN COMMIT TO FRONTING
150K, and, of course, with Dee Brown's name recognition, sponsorship sales would've been a whole lot easier than it was this year.

Now, with all that, I decide to move forward and get the rerservation, and I get, "I'm sorry...we have to get you all farther from the Orlando market. It's too close."

Okay...6 teams played under 30 miles from each other (2 played 14 miles apart), but...okay, I guess there will be no team, because...I just bought a house, my wife's an attorney and we are not moving, and I'm not driving an hour plus to work!

Isn't that crazy???


u got screwed zeke, thats BS, who cares how close u are, good luck to get ur team in the PBL!

[Minor League Man]

Let me just tell you all what a crock of garbage my year has been:

I have an Hispanic television deal with Azteca America, who also has their own journalists who will translate EVERY press release I ask them to into Spanish and distribute it to all of their ntworks.

They also have an AM station

They just wanted to be our only Hispanic television coverage (banner, link on website, etc.)

Get this --- Kissimmee is 45% Hispanic! Ticket sales??? Uhh...easily.

They offfered me a table to sell Season tickets and promiote the team at the Hispanic Expo coming in late April - Thousands of people will attend.

We were going to play at the newly remodeled (and beautiful) Civic Center, which seats like 3,000+

That's not the best....get this: I HAD DEE BROWN COMMIT TO FRONTING
150K, and, of course, with Dee Brown's name recognition, sponsorship sales would've been a whole lot easier than it was this year.

Now, with all that, I decide to move forward and get the rerservation, and I get, "I'm sorry...we have to get you all farther from the Orlando market. It's too close."

Okay...6 teams played under 30 miles from each other (2 played 14 miles apart), but...okay, I guess there will be no team, because...I just bought a house, my wife's an attorney and we are not moving, and I'm not driving an hour plus to work!

Isn't that crazy???
PBL my friend...

[jamesaba]

thanks "cp" much appreciated not only be me but everyone else on the board


and no one knows where Todd Wier(buffalo) is, i guess "besl" said he wasnt at the ABA meeting, could he be possibly be at the PBL meeting? maybe Quebec and Montreal also, cos arent they owned by the same person? anyone with info on this, it would be greatly appreciated to know whats going on

I don't know for sure about Quebec but they seemed solid this year and they are hosting the Great 8 next year so every indication is they will be back.

Montreal is not owned by Quebec - they are owned by Pascal Jobin and a Montreal based doctor. They are committed to playing in the ABA next season.

[zeke41]

That was the plan, but, unfortunately Dee doesn't want to do that, because the PBL is not a proven league (like the ABA is???). Anyway, he has dropped out altogether. That's one of the reasons I started that new website a couple of people gave me such a hard time with. I had an idea to do these new innovative basketball camps with a spiritual emphasis. I was going to market to some of the churches here.

I also was looking for a couple more investors, because, unlike most ABA owners, I want to make sure I have the money to pay for a venue, travle to all away games, and pay the players before I'll even consider starting a team. It's just not good business, and I'd hate to jade Kissimmee on a failed attempt when I know if things are done right the market would be extremely profitable. I have talked with the PBL though. I'm waiting to hear back.

We'll see what happens. Anyone got a cool hunder thousand burning a hole in their pocket??? HA HA HA HA!!!!!

[tbayz1]

oo i see, i thought one time someone said Montreal and QC were owned by the same people, but guess not

but id still like to kno about my Silverbacks owner and why hes not there and if hes at the PBL meeting......

but thanks, jamesaba for answering my question

[Minor League Man]

I don't know for sure about Quebec but they seemed solid this year and they are hosting the Great 8 next year so every indication is they will be back.

Montreal is not owned by Quebec - they are owned by Pascal Jobin and a Montreal based doctor. They are committed to playing in the ABA next season.
No, Pascal Jobin was the owner of the Montreal Matrix.

He sold it to the Kebekwa's owners, and they own them now.

[jamesaba]

No, Pascal Jobin was the owner of the Montreal Matrix.

He sold it to the Kebekwa's owners, and they own them now.

????????

As of when?

I talk to Pascal every week!

[The Magician]

Anyway, he (Dee Brown) has dropped out altogether.

of why the ABA will never be successful. The people who should be involved and would be a benefit to the league get turned away by the way that the ABA CEO decides how to conduct the business for the league ...

[tbayz1]

ya Minor League Man was the one who posted that they are owned by the same people(Mont & QC)

and i got a broad answer from my connections with Buffalo about our owner not being there, i guess hes taking care of some other business rite now, and isnt at a meeting with the PBL, and honestly were not completely sold on being in the ABA for the 2007-2008 season there is still conversation about that topic but chances are small that we will be changing leagues, as of now though were in the ABA, and personally my guess is that we will in the ABA for the upcoming season

[Minor League Man]

????????

As of when?

I talk to Pascal every week!
Check this link:

http://www.montrealaba.com/en/contactus_en.htm

Luc Filiatraut - Owner

http://www.abalive.com/teams/teampage.cgi?teamid=MON

Owner(s): - Luc Filiatrault

The official team website says Nevio Marzinotto is head coach and general manager, but ABALive.com says Marzinotto is only head coach and Pascal Jobin is general manager.

Now for Les Kebs.

Owner: Groupe Conseil Reference Inc.

Luc Filiatrault could just be in charge of the group.

To recap:
Pascal Jobin is a staff member, but not the owner. He may think both teams should stay in the ABA, but ultimately, it is Luc and the Groupe's decision where the team goes.

[The Magician]

Any further reactions to what has been discussed in the afternoon session?

Have the owners met in private thus far ... or have they scheduled a closed door for today?

[jamesaba]

Check this link:

http://www.montrealaba.com/en/contactus_en.htm

Luc Filiatraut - Owner

http://www.abalive.com/teams/teampage.cgi?teamid=MON

Owner(s): - Luc Filiatrault

The official team website says Nevio Marzinotto is head coach and general manager, but ABALive.com says Marzinotto is only head coach and Pascal Jobin is general manager.

Now for Les Kebs.

Owner: Groupe Conseil Reference Inc.

Luc Filiatrault could just be in charge of the group.

To recap:
Pascal Jobin is a staff member, but not the owner. He may think both teams should stay in the ABA, but ultimately, it is Luc and the Groupe's decision where the team goes.

I don't see where that information indicates 'Pascal Jobin sold Montreal to the Kebekwa'....

Pascal is the GM but he is also a % owner of the team along with Luc (who is the doctor).

Quebec is seperate from Montreal.

Like I said Pascal and Luc are the principal owners of Montreal. Real is the owner of the Kebekwa not Luc.

[The Sweeper]

Luc Filiatrault is also refered to as the owner of the Royal in this article

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/sports/story.html?id=c0121200-9625-4e56-a1cb-c12df667bef5&k=25045

It was published the day after their season finale.

[Minor League Man]

Well, hopefully Montreal will see the light and head out of the ABA.

If not, there could always be a PBL expansion team in Montreal.

[carterpatterson]

as an fyi...alot of owners have talked in small circles about who a1sports is. I have no idea, but a1sports is definately in the room. If I did know, then obviously, he does not want his identity known and I would respect that.

Thanks to All! More to come! Fells/Magic...I'll call you from the airport.

[The Magician]

Fells/Magic ... I'll call you from the airport.

Thanks CP! [DWS]

[tbayz1]

Cant wait to hear what you have to say about the meetings!

[The Magician]

for another "A1sports Report" ...

Anybody know what time the afternoon session is scheduled to end?

[tbayz1]

im waiting too for a1's report, its gona be interesting, i can feel it comin soon!! maybe he'll talk about that PBL meeting as well


Cant wait, cos this forum hasnt been alive since the season ended, cept for a few good posts here and there

[zeke41]

Just got off the phone with PBL contact (they just finished up an exciting meeting). They are waiting for this meeting and all of Joe's spins before launching, but are prepped and ready. Let's just say I have a good idea why no Southeast teams are at the ABA meeting.

They have EVERYthing planned out - even a free tryout camp in Chicago. That's not the final logo, either. There still working it.

Man...I really have to get this Kissimmee team going! Guess I'll have to pray (can I say that???) HA HA HA HA --- sorry, Preeths. Couldn't help myself!

[Minor League Man]

Just got off the phone with PBL contact (they just finished up an exciting meeting). They are waiting for this meeting and all of Joe's spins before launching, but are prepped and ready. Let's just say I have a good idea why no Southeast teams are at the ABA meeting.

They have EVERYthing planned out - even a free tryout camp in Chicago. That's not the final logo, either. There still working it.

Man...I really have to get this Kissimmee team going! Guess I'll have to pray (can I say that???) HA HA HA HA --- sorry, Preeths. Couldn't help myself!
And the speculation begins.

I'd expect Wilmington, Jacksonville, Palm Beach, and Mississippi to come in (Other than that, I have no idea)

[tbayz1]

All of those teams were at the meeting today, so its gona be interesting...

best of luck to you Zeke, hope your teams gets off the ground!!

[zeke41]

I'm TOTALLY fired up now...I'm going to be putting a lot more effort in finding some more funding. My source even committed to sponsoring the camp that LA and Jwalters got so uptight about! I actually think I might pull this Kissimmee thing off!!!

[a1sports]

Its very apparent at the meeting, There are a few owners who have the cash. The rest are working off a shoe-string budget. To brag on one hand that you pay the high school 100 Bucks for the gym and yet on the other hand question everyone how to make money becuase you lost money last year, tells the story. The majority here have NO idea of what to do, They listen to Joe to say how easy it is. Since the year 2000 in the ABA there has NOT been one team older than 2 years. If they are smart business men they bolt. Now Joe gets them pumped up about ABA stock, buy it now it will go up !! This was by no means a business meeting, its one giant AMWAY pitch with Amway being far more organized. Its sorry to see one owner talk to another and ask " did your players all wear the same color socks?" " How much do you charge for a tee shirt? How much does it cost to make a tee shirt?Why do we need workers comp insurance? It goes on and on. AND JOE..dodges every question with a BS answer, I have to admit it..he is very quick !! No pause..has an answer in a second, even though the answer is all BS it sounds very real. And tinkham...just sits there..not a word from him...
Looks likeThere is NO Plan in the ABA for anything...it all smoke and mirrors. All hype, yes egos can ruin you and these owners are all in over there heads becuase they thought that being an owner of a sports team was....COOL, it may be cool but you need some cold cash.

[The Magician]

Looks likeThere is NO Plan in the ABA for anything ... it all smoke and mirrors.

Thanks for the updates today a1sports! [DWS]

[utahstarsticketholder]

What a sad state of affairs in the "ABA"*. A pitch man snake oil salesman. Many poeple will soon loose their savings to this monster. I am surprised that their are still fish in the pond. My hope is the PBL is a success and this "ABA"* dies and stops tarnishing the old real ABA. Godspeed, a1sports. jack
BTW If 1000 of us sent $100.00 to zeke maybe could front his team? jack

[DaveHolmes]

Since the year 2000 in the ABA there has NOT been one team older than 2 years.


Kansas City Knights - 00-01, 01-02, 03-04 and 04-05.

[a1sports]

Let me clarify...

No team since 2000 has been in the ABA for more than two years....unless they were good pals with Joe and making money off the other teams in the league together..

Is that better?

And if your in the know...you know what Im talking about.

[zeke41]

What a sad state of affairs in the "ABA"*. A pitch man snake oil salesman. Many poeple will soon loose their savings to this monster. I am surprised that their are still fish in the pond. My hope is the PBL is a success and this "ABA"* dies and stops tarnishing the old real ABA. Godspeed, a1sports. jack
BTW If 1000 of us sent $100.00 to zeke maybe could front his team? jack

You know, Utah, that's a wonderful compliment. I am very humbled. I'm guessing that you are probably joking...but you got me thinking -

What if we all did get together and start a team (doesn't have to be in Kissimmee, but I would be honored, and gladly front you what I have proposed as the business plan). We all have GREAT ideas, and for a minimal investment, we could prove to everyone how to run a minor league team. Judging by the wonderful concepts and ideas that stem from these discussions, I'd bet we could really put a wonderful franchise together. Everyone who contributes could be on a board (whicxh would be very large), and democracy wouls rule. All items would go before the board (we could even vote right here on OSC, and get Preeths and oursportscentral as a prime-time sponsor). Minimal investment by everyone to do something we all are obviously passionate about.

Call me crazy, but I would consider dropping a hundred or two (maybe even more) if everyone else was game. Then, we could really be the "Publics" team - a fans tram run by the fans. What a concept!

I don't know...I'm a crazy visionary, I guess. I like to do things out of the box! I'll bet the PBL would ponder such an out-of-the-box idea!

[utahstarsticketholder]

I am not kidding, pm me with an address and I will send you $100.00 in the form of a money order to what ever name you want me to fill in the name line. And I know you name is not CASH, just kidding. PM me with the address and on the April 20 I will send it to you (my next payday).
Hope your ministry enjoys success. (Not to be off topic!)
jack and cheryl.

[The Magician]

Call me crazy, but I would consider dropping a hundred or two (maybe even more) if everyone else was game. Then, we could really be the "Publics" team - a fans tram run by the fans. What a concept!

a $100.00 for a SHARE of the Kissimmee ___________ Pro Basketball Team! :mrgreen:

Let's Roll with the concept ... I'm keen on the idea of being a shareholder/owner.

1) Jack & Cheryl $100
2) David $100
3) ...

Zeke, you could even open up OSC for a "name the team" contest?

Better yet ... You could facilitate the "1st Online Community" to own a professional basketball team in the history of sports!

[zeke41]

Thanks Jack, Cheryl and Dave. You know, I am really going to push for this. Before I start taking money in, what I am going to do is see what kind of response I get. I have some friends (younger friends) who are not rich, but have a good source of cash. $100 seems to be a very fair and risk free investment, and with the things I have in place, the Kissimmee team will be profitable.

Thank being said, if enough noise is made, I will go straight to the bank and set up a business account and work on the LLC. At that point, people can send the money straight to the bank account (they can send it to me if the trust is there, but I'm not Joe, and I am not cashing anything until I get everything rolling and it goes directly into the bank).

I think this will be an innovative idea in the minor league world. Heck - players are willing to put up $100-$150 to try-out and get nothing in return. Why not utilize a Ben Franklin and possibly (a high probability) walk away with somethihng!

Mark

[rams80]

Sounds very professional...But I think confidentiality agreements are about as stupid as noncompete clauses. I mean, wouldn't you want to tell about it as soon as it's official so you could work on PR to sell tickets, sponsorship, etc.?

Other than that, very professional job by the PBL.

So you're saying that confidentiality agreements are smart, right? Because non-compete clauses are very shrewd and effective business tools.

[Minor League Man]

So you're saying that confidentiality agreements are smart, right? Because non-compete clauses are very shrewd and effective business tools.
The way I see it, non-compete clauses prevent a team from moving from its run-down league to a better one (Fayetteville Guard, anyone?)

[indy legend]

Better yet ... You could facilitate the "1st Online Community" to own a professional basketball team in the history of sports![/B]

Zeke,
I think this is a great idea. I hope it really takes off and is successful. I am disabled and not in a position to help much monitarily but since you are greatly involved from a spitual perspective and you are trying to work this into a faith based angle, as with you Zeke both my faith and basketball are very important to me, I would like to offer up the first suggestion for the team name,"the Kissimmee Kingdom". Good luck and if I can put together a way to come up with a little cash for this venture please count me in.

[abie10]

I would also be willing to take part in this. I could give more than 100 and absolutely want to take part in this...let me know :)

[zeke41]

Thanks, Indy Legend. I will keep you posted. I just got off the phone with several people. I have one guy who is willing to purchase a few shares (a couple thousands worth). Plus he knows a few big business men who spend a hundred dollars on bottled water I guess! Anyway...I think it may be time to start a new thread. I'm working out all of the details, and...folks I think this is going to be a great test case to show the rest of the minor league bball world that we, the fans, know what we are talking about.

Hey Indy...perhaps you could write up a devotion for the site - www.thecrossoverbasketball.com

????

Let me know if you're interested!

Mark

[rams80]

The way I see it, non-compete clauses prevent a team from moving from its run-down league to a better one (Fayetteville Guard, anyone?)

I thought the Niffle didn't have one of those....(somehow everyone else had a loophole to bolt).

[The Magician]

Things are "looking up" for the Kissimmee ___________ Pro Basketball Team! :mrgreen:

The shareholders are rolling in ...

1) Jack & Cheryl - $100
2) David - $100
3) indy legend - Let's get together and donate a $share for indy legend in return for a devotional for crossover basketball!
4) abie10 - $100+
5) Marks Friends - $,000.00

Zeke, You have your 1st submission for a "name the team" contest?

1) The Kissimmee Kingdom - Sub'd by indy legend

Mark, How did you like the idea of becoming the "1st Online Community" to own a professional basketball team in the history of sports?

[zeke41]

I appreciate your concern, Bectond. I do hope you aren't insinuatiing that there's some pretexting going on with this ordeal. Besides, I'm working it out so there is no information changing hands until everything is formidable. My wife is an attorney, and we will have everything under contract. I just need to see the interest before I really start moving.

At this point, I have had an enormous amount of interest, and I am moving full steam ahead. So far:

1) Jack & Cheryl - $100
2) David - $100
3) indy legend - Let's get together and donate a $share for indy legend in return for a devotional for crossover basketball!
4) abie10 - $1000+
5) Marks Friends - $3,000.00+
6) Me: $1,000-$2,000 - most likely more
7) Alonso Garcia - Azteca America Rep. - At least $100...most likely more than that figure (and many more investors to come from that group)


It may be time to start an initial thread. I'l be working hard all next week to get things tight and crunch some numbers. I'll also be in touch with the PBL, who, by the way, will be sponsoring my bball camps as well, which may extend into different states (that money will be invested in the team as well!

[teqkng]

1) Jack & Cheryl - $100
2) David - $100
3) indy legend - Let's get together and donate a $share for indy legend in return for a devotional for crossover basketball!
4) abie10 - $1000+
5) Marks Friends - $3,000.00+
6) Me: $1,000-$2,000 - most likely more
7) Alonso Garcia - Azteca America Rep. - At least $100...most likely more than that figure (and many more investors to come from that group)
8) Teqkng (but I want naming prives! LOL (not that it would be to bad. Hmmm the Kissimee Hispanic Tequila Kings... Hmmmm)


It may take off... Stranger things have happened.

This one will cost a lot more than 2 cents...

Teqkng.

[bectond]

I appreciate your concern, Bectond. I do hope you aren't insinuatiing that there's some pretexting going on with this ordeal. Besides, I'm working it out so there is no information changing hands until everything is formidable. My wife is an attorney, and we will have everything under contract. I just need to see the interest before I really start moving.



Just remember, if you collect a check via online advertising (posting replies) for a business that does not exist yet and someone notifies the law you can be charged with wire fraud even if you fully intend to start the business at a later date.
You should always charter the business before you speak openly about collecting funds. If you have not chartered your franchise group idea and you take a check you could be charged with wire fraud and posting replies online could be viewed as Pretexting. If your wife is an attorney I can not believe she has not warned you about this fact.

[OneBetter]

Just remember, if you collect a check via online advertising (posting replies) for a business that does not exist yet and someone notifies the law you can be charged with wire fraud even if you fully intend to start the business at a later date.
You should always charter the business before you speak openly about collecting funds. If you have not chartered your franchise group idea and you take a check you could be charged with wire fraud and posting replies online could be viewed as Pretexting. If your wife is an attorney I can not believe she has not warned you about this fact.

I've monitored these boards for a long time without ever deciding to chime in, but from what I've read, Zeke, is not qualified to run a professional sports teams.

I agree w/ you 100% about the pretexting. I wonder if Zeke actually has a lawyer wife.

And, Zeke, it looks like you're raising funds more in the market reservation bracket of the ABA than the PBL.

[OneBetter]

What a sad state of affairs in the "ABA"*. A pitch man snake oil salesman. Many poeple will soon loose their savings to this monster. I am surprised that their are still fish in the pond. My hope is the PBL is a success and this "ABA"* dies and stops tarnishing the old real ABA. Godspeed, a1sports. jack
BTW If 1000 of us sent $100.00 to zeke maybe could front his team? jack

Fish in the pond? Yes, there are lots of fish in the pond, unfortunately. Joe knows exactly which audience to go after, and he's very very effective at going after it. He goes after the faith-based religious crowd (St. Louis Stunners, Mississippi Miracles, Atlanta Vision, at one time Zeke's group).

{Removed by admin}

[zeke41]

I've monitored these boards for a long time without ever deciding to chime in, but from what I've read, Zeke, is not qualified to run a professional sports teams.

I agree w/ you 100% about the pretexting. I wonder if Zeke actually has a lawyer wife.

And, Zeke, it looks like you're raising funds more in the market reservation bracket of the ABA than the PBL.


Hey OneBetter....

Thanks for chiming in. I'm curious...from what you have read, what disqualifies me to run a professional sports team?

And let's be clear, folks...I have not (and will not) be accepting any form of payment for anything until things are properly formatted. From what you have read, OneBetter....I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assert that you missed that reply by me??? Maybe???

I (and several others) feel like this will be a great opportunity to gather some of the best minds that chime in on this forum and put a team together that succeeds. Let's face it - all of you can talk all day long about what can and should be done for a minor league team to succeed, but if you aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is, you must not really believe in what you are saying anyway!

As I said, if I go through with the idea (and I am doing the homework to see how it needs to be done as we speak), money will not be going to me, it will be going directly to the business/bank. Sure, I have no idea how to charter something of this nature.....YET...but I am in the process of finding out, and it will be done properly.

And really, folks....is it necessary to question what my wife does for a living?

[bectond]

Hey OneBetter....


And let's be clear, folks...I have not (and will not) be accepting any form of payment for anything until things are properly formatted.

Great!

You guys should also think about PM each other with your numbers, someone might see what your doing and get some bad ideas. Remember, you don't want to attract or bring out the worst in people. Putting numbers on the board might do that. e.g.- like give someone the idea to start a on-line telethon for a non-existent charities or sports related business.

[SignGuyDino]

I find it amusing that a "junior member" with three posts appears attacking people with Christian beliefs right after Paul put a self-imposed vacation on someone who was doing that in abundance just last weekend. Similar style of argument, too.

[psbf]

of the PBL. But questions I have are 1) Who designed the logo? and 2) What color ball will the league be using?

[The Magician]

of the PBL. But questions I have are 1) Who designed the logo? and 2) What color ball will the league be using?

in the PBL section at OSC!

http://www.oursportscentral.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=102

[LASportsFan]

I find it amusing that a "junior member" with three posts appears attacking people with Christian beliefs right after Paul put a self-imposed vacation on someone who was doing that in abundance just last weekend. Similar style of argument, too.

Hi SinoGuyDino. First of all, I'm back.

Second of all, please do not insinuate that I am the same guy as some rookie poster. That OneBetter guy is not me.

Hopefully we can "all get along" and keep to the topic of basketball. I would like to reiterate to Zeke and preeths that they should do the same. {removed by admin}

Zeke, best of luck to you with your effort to bring a team to the Florida area. I'm sure there is a market somewhere in the country for what you are trying to do. I personally would not attend any of your games because of the associated message, but I'm sure there are those that would. So, for those that like that sort of thing, get out in force and help Zeke.

{removed by admin}

[zeke41]

Thanks, LA....good to see you back.

I've done some homework, and it looks like putting together a team that way is going to require some tremendous work, and a whole lot of finances to ensure everything is properly formatted. Anyone know of a good lawyer with a solid Corporate or Securities background? My wife is in real estate, and the people she DOES know are from very big firms, and...well...they are pricey!

All in all, I'm still a little confused about the whole pretexting thing. Everything I read about the topic involves the word "fraud" so I see no issue there. I'm certainly not gathering or selling phone records to anyone. I'm trying to understand the difference between an ownership group of 2-5 people getting together and a much larger group getting together to form a business. I'm sure it's in the numbers, but...it's all very confusing. I guess that's why lawyers get the big bucks, though.

Anyway...Looks like the PBL is off to a good start. Should be interesting t osee which ABA teams are jumping ship.

[SignGuyDino]

I can insinuate what I please. I've seen it all the time with Jim Terry posting as all sorts of people (including my wife's name) on other boards and saying and doing all sorts of disgusting stuff. And EVERYBODY knew who it was.

It's funny that all of a sudden somebody's religious beliefs are attacked on a sports board by one, or supposedly two people. It's also funny you keep getting your posts edited or removed by administrator ALL the time.

There's plenty of other issues in the ABA, and PBL for that matter. The question I have for the PBL is frankly why should they be better than the ABA when they trusted Joe Newman (despite years of track record warning otherwise)? THAT'S a fair question. A guy's religious views and saying he isn't "enlightened" isn't fair game.

Unless some guy believes in the "Force," like the jedis in Star Wars, meaning he's really whacked out, his views are his business. So knock it off. If you didn't like the insinuation, frankly, you shouldn't have brought the subject up in such in insulting matter to begin with.

[LASportsFan]

Hi SinoGuyDino. First of all, I'm back.

Second of all, please do not insinuate that I am the same guy as some rookie poster. That OneBetter guy is not me.

Hopefully we can "all get along" and keep to the topic of basketball. I would like to reiterate to Zeke and preeths that they should do the same. {removed by admin}

Zeke, best of luck to you with your effort to bring a team to the Florida area. I'm sure there is a market somewhere in the country for what you are trying to do. I personally would not attend any of your games because of the associated message, but I'm sure there are those that would. So, for those that like that sort of thing, get out in force and help Zeke.

{removed by admin}

Preeths, you've absolutely MUST be kidding at this point. Editing my posts that actually are positive towards others while just reminding you and others to stay on topic? WOW, you've sunk to an all-time low.

I for several years have come to Our Sports Central for minor league sports news. I can now see that you have an agenda that is as biased as those that you and others like to criticize in that of Joe Newman and the ABA. Maybe someday you guys will see how crooked preeths is.

This is a dispicable message board. You've lost me as a member because of your baseless bigotry. I know everyone will come on here and say, "good riddance. That LA guy was a jerk and a lunatic." But, you know what? All of you that are going to say that or are thinking it are no better than me or anyone else because you too have strong viewpoints that you voice too.

{removed by admin}

[preeths]

LASportsFan, I'm sorry you couldn't work past your issues to find a way to work with us. You have contributed well to the discussion in the past, but you just can't seem to get past some people's religious views. That's too bad.

This is the finest minor league message board around, thanks to the quality of its posters. In fact, I was just told by someone in the ABA that the identities of several posters on this board was a major topic of discussion among some ABA owners at last week's meetings. They are listening.

[The Magician]

This is the finest minor league message board around, thanks to the quality of its posters. In fact, I was just told by someone in the ABA that the identities of several posters on this board was a major topic of discussion among some ABA owners at last week's meetings. They are listening.

I'd be curious to know what was discussed?

[TheStandard]

What do you think they discussed and thought of us? Lets see:

1. How much we drink more than pepto bismol to stomach the crap the league is?

2. Joe Newman.

3. Joe Newman.

4. Dick

5. Joe Newman.

6. Joe Newman throws you under the bus.

7. Bill Corona. Starz in motion. Brady Anderson. The Brax Group (That dude is a crook just ask his Ex Wife)

8. ABA University

9. The countless numbers of teams that have arrived and left faster than you can say hi and bye.

10. 10k????

12. League guidelines, standards, regulations, screening

13-1 TRILLION. Joe Newman.

[Fells]

Preeths, you've absolutely MUST be kidding at this point. Editing my posts that actually are positive towards others while just reminding you and others to stay on topic? WOW, you've sunk to an all-time low.

I for several years have come to Our Sports Central for minor league sports news. I can now see that you have an agenda that is as biased as those that you and others like to criticize in that of Joe Newman and the ABA. Maybe someday you guys will see how crooked preeths is.

Crooked?!?!? Paul?!?!? Dude, the guy is running a business here, and a very legitimate one at that and you call him crooked???? I would hate to see what you see as being unbiased.


This is a dispicable message board. You've lost me as a member because of your baseless bigotry. I know everyone will come on here and say, "good riddance. That LA guy was a jerk and a lunatic." But, you know what? All of you that are going to say that or are thinking it are no better than me or anyone else because you too have strong viewpoints that you voice too.

Baseless bigotry???? Oh now this is good. NOT!!!! Let me tell you something pal. In a league where getting information is not easy, I come to this board for information on what is going on in the league. Message boards like this, and others, have made their way into the mainstream media for us hacks to get information for stories. The information on here is solid(Well, most of it), and people here know what they are talking about. This is far from "a dispicable message board".

{removed by admin}

Going back to work now.......

Fells

[bomp]

... I was just told by someone in the ABA that the identities of several posters on this board was a major topic of discussion among some ABA owners at last week's meetings. They are listening.

If they are listening, why are they investing? Any intelligent business person who has done any due diligence can see that the ABA is a shaky operation with a bleak future for all investors excect Joey.

Minor league basketball baserd on my research is a tough nut to crack. It is built on dreams. Very few profits so if you have money to lose, go ahead and invest. It is no worse than investing your dollars in a casino. Ok, maybe it worse but not by much.

Joe is a great salesman. He can sell ice to eskimos.

You have been warned.

[sportsguy12]

Preeths, you've absolutely MUST be kidding at this point. Editing my posts that actually are positive towards others while just reminding you and others to stay on topic? WOW, you've sunk to an all-time low.

I for several years have come to Our Sports Central for minor league sports news. I can now see that you have an agenda that is as biased as those that you and others like to criticize in that of Joe Newman and the ABA. Maybe someday you guys will see how crooked preeths is.

This is a dispicable message board. You've lost me as a member because of your baseless bigotry. I know everyone will come on here and say, "good riddance. That LA guy was a jerk and a lunatic." But, you know what? All of you that are going to say that or are thinking it are no better than me or anyone else because you too have strong viewpoints that you voice too.

{removed by admin}

let me do the honors ... "good riddance"