what's happening here?

[WHAFAN]

Making fun of Joe and the rec-league ABA provided all of us with plenty to talk about. Now that the discussion has turned to religion, I really feel that a line has been crossed.

First of all, how would a Christian basketball website appeal to anyone? What is the point of this exactly? If people want religion, they know where to find it. I find it odd that people that push their religeous views on others are always quick to quote verses. Does memorizing passages from the Bible make you a better person? Practicing what you preach should do that. But in cases of religion and politics, if you practice it, please keep it to yourself. So called "saved" Christians are always the first to point out others flaws. If everyone doesn't think and feel the same as you, we're all doomed. I consider this narrow minded and self-righteous BS. I am a Catholic, have never been "saved", nor do I really know what that means. Through 12 years of Catholic education, being "saved" has never been brought up. After Baptism, being saved is for people that realize that they were living a rotten life, tried to turn their lives around, and have a need to tell all the rest of us how evil we are and what sinners we are. Please......no more.

[zeke41]

"If You are a Christian and Love Basketball"

NOTE: Didn't push my "Religious views" on others.

What exacltly is this "crossing the lines" talk going on. Where are the lines? I mean, if there were lines, I'd appreciate those lines getting forwarded to me when I signed up.

I didn't post anything in a "Joe sucks!" thread, I posted it in a "If You are a Christian and Love Basketball" thread. What's wrong with thiat? I see garbage all over the place in all kinds of forums on the internet (not just here), and you know what?

I-DON'T-OPEN-THOSE-THREADS!!!

I have found something positive to do with my ABA experience. The topic turned intense, by what??? Someone else who opened the thread that disagreed with...uhhh...Christianity! I got attacked, I took it, and I responded appropriately, and the topic turned to a very intelligent discussion with very interesting viewpoints.

And, not to be disrespectful at all to you, Preeths, but...

The thread seemed to be garnering a lot of views. Surely the focuss of Oursportscentral is to get viewers. Why close the thread or demand that the topic be ceased? Were we about to use all of the board memory or something? We all were having an educated discussion about religion, derived from basketball. What is so wrong with that?

[LASportsFan]

Zeke, can you suggest a new board that we can move to (non-OSC related) continue the discussion?

I'm pretty furious with preeths right now. I spent a long time writing replies to your questions, Zeke, only to have them all erased within minutes of posting. Preeths' actions this morning clearly show that he is unfit to be a moderator of a public message board like this.

[preeths]

I thought I clearly spelled out the reasons why the disucssion was ended, but I can do so again. It is off-topic. This is a minor league sports message board. The original post was ABA-related, and I allowed the remaining posts addressing it directly to stay. But a full-scale debate on the merits of faith is simply off-topic for this board. I'm sorry you are upset that you wasted time on your posts because I deleted them after I had made my position, and therefore that of this site, clear.

Please understand that OurSports Central is a private business, owned by myself. It is not a public entity.

[jwalters]

What I am mad about is the fact that my posts are the ones that got deleted the most. I even made a post about tolerance amongst us all and that was removed. This is flat out wrong. You can't suppress ideas just because you don't agree with them.

[zeke41]

Just so you know, I have saved your post, so I can read it. I have an eye doctor's appointment so I need to run in a second.

Also, I don't know of another thread or board. I don't search for things like that. It's not my style, nor my intention. If you find one, we can continue, certainly.


Anyway, I think your posts were deleted because your language selection can be quite offensive. I'm use to speaking with people like you, so I don't need to attack you.


God is real to me. He's not real to you...that's fine. You have free will - God gave it to you. IMO, you have had some bad teachers. That sucks. They've twisted your belief system the same way you would think Christian teaching has twisted mine. The only problem is my belief system is based on more than the Bible and any other books - it's derived in my personal relationship with God. All you do is read. You're seem to be to close-minded to give a relationship with God a try.

By the way, there are miracles that happen every day. You're a reader - go read the books. Haven't seen any of the miracle stories on TV? They are all over the place. I'll tell you this - a lot of people almost consider it a miracle that I am where I am today, because I grew up in a house with no money, where the electric was turned off regularly (even the water once), and I pushed hard for a dream that seemed absurd. In fact, some people thought it their duty to tell me how stupid I was in the same tone that you speak to me about on this religious topic. You know what? Those people have been silenced - not by me, but by God, who has allowed things to happen in my life that skeptics and critics and doubters SWORE would never happen.

There faith in Jesus Christ has been elevated by what I have accomplished, and that's what I'm all about! I never even forced them to do anything. I live a life of "Lifestyle Evangelism". I preach with my life, not by words and what I demand!

Let me know if you find another board...we'll do it real big, boss!!!!

I appreciate you and your sincerity! Sorry Preeths...if I would've known....If I would've known. Ehhh....oh well! Something good will come out of this!

[jwalters]

My consiliatory post was on the topic of sports. We are here to discuss the merits of leagues and owners. If we raise our voices loud enough we can enact real change in the system. That is of course if we don't get our posts deleted by censors.

[preeths]

What I am mad about is the fact that my posts are the ones that got deleted the most. I even made a post about tolerance amongst us all and that was removed. This is flat out wrong. You can't suppress ideas just because you don't agree with them.

No posts were deleted because of their viewpoint. The only ones removed were off-topic.

[The Magician]

Zeke, go ahead and take this discussion to:

http://abasite.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=talk

Everyone will need to REGISTER ... and then everyone can copy and paste their comments as made previously, so the discussion can continue.

[jwalters]

You know it's like trying to get through to Joe and his cronies you just can't speak to people in lala land. I know some folks saw my posts so it doesn't matter if you do delete them the ideas have already been spread. As a point though my post rarely made religious specifics and you deleted them all. Most of mine expounded the virtues of our founders and the virtues of sports.

[bectond]

I'm pretty furious with preeths right now. .

On my, The Christian in love of basketball vs. the pretty furious rocket boy.
I agree with WHAFAN. You guys need to take this garbage to St. Elsewhere.

I spent a long time writing replies to your questions, Zeke, only to have them all erased within minutes of posting. .

If I were the moderator i'd delete your Psycho babel too. Who cares what you think about dudes Christian Love of Basketball.

Sign up for the ABA's message board ,please!!!!!!

[preeths]

jwalters, I have reviewed your posts again. The one from yesterday at 9:13 p.m. mentioned the Olympics, not a minor league sport. The second from 10:45, the Oakland Raiders. The third at 12:35 had no sports references. The fourth at 12:51 mentioned Methodist College sports. None were minor league sports related. The fifth mentioned the PBL and has been restored.

[WHAFAN]

I'm in no way mocking anyone's beliefs, but this has turned into the equivalent of walking into a shoe store asking for a pound of ground beef and a dozen eggs. I don't need to be "born again".........I got it right the first time !!

[jwalters]

It has been restored. Good. Now let's get down to the topic of freeing athlete's bodies instead of their mythical souls. Does anyone know the salary cap of the ABA/PBL teams? Is it 100k or 120k? I've heard both.

[zeke41]

I believe it is 120K, but that's like saying that Joe will pay for your travel to a game - nothing. There's no check on this at all. I've heard of teams paying way over that. However, most of the teams don't even pay their players. Until some changes are made, I think the salary cap topic is irrelevant!

See Preeths....I can talk about other things too!!! Sorry Bro!

[Fells]

jwalters, I have reviewed your posts again. The one from yesterday at 9:13 p.m. mentioned the Olympics, not a minor league sport. The second from 10:45, the Oakland Raiders. The third at 12:35 had no sports references. The fourth at 12:51 mentioned Methodist College sports. None were minor league sports related. The fifth mentioned the PBL and has been restored.

Someone let me know when the boards go back to the topic of basketball........

[preeths]

I think we're getting there...

[jwalters]

I recommend we begin a new thread in the PBL section about what we want to see from that league. I don't mean just teams but what rules, budgets, schedules, etc.

[preeths]

Great idea. Feel free to open the thread and start the discussion.

[Pounder]

You know...

United Soccer Leagues Second Division has the Charlotte Eagles. They are ministry-owned, they always play off-season games in far-off locales as part of missionary work, et cetera. Yet, I recall a poster on another board always making some crack that the Eagles needed to be counterbalanced, and suggested "Maccabi Winston-Salem" as a solution. Well, the suggester was a Russian communist, FWIW...

Put it this way... you have Rangers and Celtic in Glasgow. Rangers have a Protestant fan base rooted in Scotland, while Celtic have a Catholic fan base rooted in the folk who escaped Ireland when the English were invading. The scene around the "Old Firm" on matchday isn't quite Belfast, but often seems like it to outsider and insider alike. I couldn't possibly imagine why this subject got touchy. ;)

Still, I don't discount the possibility that several teams or even a whole league could either have a Christian underpinning or have several teams with such a philosophy. That could sell these days.

[preeths]

You bring up another really good direction for this thread, especially since it is in the ABA section. The Mississippi Miracles were owned by a minister, and I think some other teams were owned by ministers as well.

[LASportsFan]

Anyone want to help start up a Buddhist basketball team?

[Fells]

You bring up another really good direction for this thread, especially since it is in the ABA section. The Mississippi Miracles were owned by a minister, and I think some other teams were owned by ministers as well.

Paul, you are correct. The Miracles are owned by Mother Annie Williams.

[jwalters]

Not to make fun but it is fairly easy to accumulate wealth when people give you their money. They get special tax breaks too don't they?

[Shootmaster_44]

Not to make fun but it is fairly easy to accumulate wealth when people give you their money. They get special tax breaks too don't they?

Nope. Unless you're stealing money from the ministry, the money is the ministry's. No different than Microsoft, the money they make is the company's not Bill Gates' specifically. As well, the tax breaks apply to the ministry's income tax, not the minister's. As far as I know minister must pay the same income tax as everyone else in that tax bracket. So owning a minor league basketball team is just as hard for men of the cloth, as it is for any other business person.

Besides having someone give you their money, is not altogether different than selling shares of a team. I'm sure you wouldn't blink twice if someone offered you $10 no strings attached. Who wouldn't take money that was being given away? Its human nature and has nothing to do with religion.

Anyways, who cares who owns the teams in the ABA? I'm guessing if they're religious they might be more willing to pay the players and honor road-trips than secular owners. I don't care who is in charge of the ABA as long as all the bills get paid, the schedule is played in its entirety and no teams fold during the season. I'd be just as happy if all teams were owned by say Korean transvestites (no offense intended to anyone of either of those persuasions), so long as all the bills were paid, the games played as scheduled and no teams folded.

With that I think the religion and basketball stream of consciousness has run dry and I think, Paul, its time this thread be locked.

[nksports]

This scroll was found under a gym in Israel, discovered when workers were replacing a court for the Israeli Basketball League in time for the season opener. It was built over an ancient village's house of the scribes.
It is a rabbinical commentary on the book of Isaiah (held by St. Thomas), concerning future prophesy.

"And there will rise in the midwest a deciever named Joe of perdition. And he will lead astray the Hittities, the Caananites, the Perezzites, the Philistines, the Rochesterians, the Syracusians, the Marylandites, the Arkansasites (including the subclans of Little Rock and Springdale-Bentonville), the Heaves of Frost and others. They will pay him tens of thousand or more sheckels or deneri or pieces of silver for their market reservations, and more for their lamps of three D. They will pay their tributes and taxes to Joe. But there will come ministers of kings to slay him. And they will have the mark of the king on their business cards, and that mark will be SEC. And then the parchments and scrolls that hold the marks ABKB.OB will hold value no longer. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth of those that hold those parchments. And they will say to their stockbrokers, 'selleth those parchments.' And the stockbrokers will say, 'but the parchments are trading for .0002 per share, for they are worthless. And now, because you hold such parchments, your portfolio is worthless.' And the owners of franchises and the owners of the worthless parchments will tear at their clothes. They will cover themselves with ashes and they will mourn. And they will not be comforted. And Joe will be brought before the king and those bearing the mark of the SEC and will laugh and say, 'The fault is not mine, but those whose teams have failed, for they have not followed the business plan.' And those with the mark SEC will say, 'Where are the 2.5 million sheckles you received in the reverse merger.' And Joe will become angry, and red in the face that anyone should ask such a question and he will curse the king and those who hold the mark SEC. And those with the mark SEC will say, 'You have sinned against business, the king and your stockholders. Away you will go to the place of the sodomites and Martha the Stewart of Connecticut into the lower bowels of the federal penitentary to that place called Federal Bureau of Corrections Honor Camp 6, Minimum Security. Never again will you be allowed to conduct business in securities. You will be fined. You will be imprisoned for a term of five years, all but two suspended. You may get out in a six months with good behavior, but you will spend the next six months with a bracelet around your ankle that will be chained to your home as a mark of your sin.' And thus Joe was heard no more in the world. And what franchises that were left joined the CBA and the D League and some tried to form their own leagues. And others just folded, never to be heard from again."

[Fells]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, basketball and nothing relating to religion please oh masters of the boards. Not to inflame anyone and their beliefs, but if this was a religion board, it would be titled "Our Religion Central--Catholics, Buddhists, and others meet here".

[panchess]

..I believe they have a church connection too.

I'm as strong on separation of church and state as anybody I know, but if a minister or church want to operate a pro basketball team and spread their faith that way, that's their business.

[WHAFAN]

Here are the only connections between religion and the ABA....

- My God, no teams finish a season
- My God, websites are 90 days behind the times
- My God, there's a game going on and this place is empty
- My God, another team disappeared since our last prayer meeting
- My God, Joe found more suckers to give him money!!

[jwalters]

Here are the only connections between religion and the ABA....

- My God, no teams finish a season
- My God, websites are 90 days behind the times
- My God, there's a game going on and this place is empty
- My God, another team disappeared since our last prayer meeting
- My God, Joe found more suckers to give him money!!

MY GOD that's funny!

[Sam Hill]

You can't suppress ideas just because you don't agree with them.

Yes he can.

"Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech."

It's not a law. It's the private owner of a private business telling you what you will or won't do with his bandwidth.

[Fells]

Here are the only connections between religion and the ABA....

- My God, no teams finish a season
- My God, websites are 90 days behind the times
- My God, there's a game going on and this place is empty
- My God, another team disappeared since our last prayer meeting
- My God, Joe found more suckers to give him money!!

Freaking hysterical!!!!

[Chuck the Writer]

I always thought the best use of religion and basketball was once written on an NBA men's room stall...

"JESUS SAVES - RODMAN GETS THE REBOUNDS"

[Fells]

I always thought the best use of religion and basketball was once written on an NBA men's room stall...

"JESUS SAVES - RODMAN GETS THE REBOUNDS"

Good to see ya back Chuck.

[utahstarsticketholder]

My God, my post is awaiting approval from the moderator.


Sorry just had to. jack

[jwalters]

Look Sam I'll try to explain. I was mad about my posts being deleted. I know you can delete posts. You can black out stations, you can burn books, but you can not suppress ideas. It is an impossibility. Ask the Chinese internet censors. Stuff still gets through. Ideas exist in the minds of individuals. They can be attacked or chastized but never fully destroyed.

[preeths]

It isn't about suppression of ideas, it's about expressing them in the proper forum. For those ideas not related to minor league sports, this isn't it.

[LASportsFan]

It isn't about suppression of ideas, it's about expressing them in the proper forum. For those ideas not related to minor league sports, this isn't it.

Then, to be completely fair, the Christian Basketball post should never have been allowed because is was NOT about minor league sports. It was about a guy trying to self promote a basketball camp. This camp is for anyone and is not affiliated with a minor basketball league nor does enrolling in it in any way help one obtain a professional contract.

Sorry, preeths, but if that's going to be your rule, then you need to enforce is fairly, and not look the other way when the cause is in line with your own personal religious beliefs.

[zeke41]

Thread Title: If You Are a Christian and Love Basketball

LA...you're obviously not a Christian. A LOT of other people are. Out of the immense number of viewers to the thread, you were the only one who felt it was necessary to attack me and what I am trying to do, whic, I obviously have to add AGAIN, has a lot to do with my playing experience in the ABA.

Playing in the ABA, whether you like it or not, adds credibility to what I have attempted to accomplish with my life (Don't believe me???? Ask some of the youth I speak to). If you could just see past your religious persecution attitude and look at the overlying message of www.thecrossoverbasketball.com - "go after your dreams, because they lie within you for a purpose, and will lead you to places in life that will change your world" - you would see that it's not such a bad thing to tell a young person.

This is the benefit the minor leagues have - they can be much more accessible than a big time sports athlete, and really make a difference in the lives of those around them. I think that if more teams worked on tasks of this nature, they would find themselves a loyal fan base that shows up every game. Investing in people os the best investment! Forget the big huge arena. Forget the nice travel bus. The success of a minor league team lies within the community. That's why smaller communities usually prosper - a couple community projects, and the whole town is talking about the team.

[LASportsFan]

Thread Title: If You Are a Christian and Love Basketball

LA...you're obviously not a Christian. A LOT of other people are. Out of the immense number of viewers to the thread, you were the only one who felt it was necessary to attack me and what I am trying to do, whic, I obviously have to add AGAIN, has a lot to do with my playing experience in the ABA.

Playing in the ABA, whether you like it or not, adds credibility to what I have attempted to accomplish with my life (Don't believe me???? Ask some of the youth I speak to). If you could just see past your religious persecution attitude and look at the overlying message of www.thecrossoverbasketball.com - "go after your dreams, because they lie within you for a purpose, and will lead you to places in life that will change your world" - you would see that it's not such a bad thing to tell a young person.

This is the benefit the minor leagues have - they can be much more accessible than a big time sports athlete, and really make a difference in the lives of those around them. I think that if more teams worked on tasks of this nature, they would find themselves a loyal fan base that shows up every game. Investing in people os the best investment! Forget the big huge arena. Forget the nice travel bus. The success of a minor league team lies within the community. That's why smaller communities usually prosper - a couple community projects, and the whole town is talking about the team.


First of all, I was not the only one with an opinion other than yours. JWalters also agreed with me. Second of all, you can make a positive difference in the lives of young people sans religion. Young people are very vulnerable, and they more than anyone shouldn't have anyone else's personal religious views pushed upon them. If you don't let them go through the quest and search for truth themselves but push your narrow-minded views on them, they are more likely to end up like 95% of the rest of Christians: as lemmings.

Your website, strictly speaking does not have anything to do with minor league sports, so by preeths' own rule, it should not have been allowed on this board. END OF STORY.

[preeths]

His post did have to do with minor league sports as he mentioned, and continues to mention, his ABA experience. It would be the same if a coach came on to pitch an NPO he was involved with. The NPO might not have anything to do with minor league sports, but the coach does. Therefore, on topic.

[preeths]

Anyone with a problem about board administration can PM or email me. The boards are for discussing minor league sports, not board administration.

[preeths]

LASportsFan will take a brief break from the boards.