If You are a Christian and Love Basketball...

[zeke41]

I am starting a new website that will cater to the Christian Basketball Player. It is evolving as we speak, but...after my crazy, disheartening experience as a player and as Director of Basketball Operations of a team in the ABA, I've found it necessary to do something positive with my life, my skill, and my educational background (I would have majored in basketball in college, but I had to pick an educational curriculum - I chose Religion).

Anyway, feel free to check it out. It's not really a money-making website. It's moreso a site that allows me to minister to others without being confined to the walls and litigation of a church.

I've learned a lot from my experience in the ABA. Honestly, I wouldn't trade it for the world. I got a chance to do something that no one thought I would ever be able to do - play semi-professional basketball. I know what some of you may be thinking, I know... "It's the ABA, and it's hardly anything to be proud of. It's Rec. League basketball!"

Here's the fact: I played with and against some of the best athletes I've seen in my life. I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of them in the NBA some day - particularly Alex Hill from the Orlando Aces or Antonio Lawrence (Aces/ Jam). Teams come and go (fold/get suspended/whatever you wanna call it), but my experience will be with me forever. I am proud of that. I just want to share that experience and turn it into something positive that may, by chance, inspire another younger athlete to never give up on a dream!

Anyway, here's the link: It's evolving daily, but I hope it is informative, and offers a glimmer of positivity in this crazy ABA forum.

www.thecrossoverbasketball.com

[The Magician]

Way to take it, to the "highest" level!

Good Luck, [DWS]

[preeths]

Very nice and a terrific perspective.

[indy legend]

Great website Zeke. It's very positive and uplifting, and if reaches just one person it will be very rewarding to you personaly. I know first hand there is nothing quite like the feeling you get from playing a part in helping lead someone to Christ. Sometimes in our passion for basketball we all (myself included) loose sight of what is truly important in life.
Maybe we all (again myself included) need to think it over an extra moment before we post when we disagree with one another. It's OK to disagree but positive dialog will get much more done. We are all on the same side here. We love minor league hoops and we want to see things improve weather it be the ABA, CBA, USBL, IBL, or DLeague.

[LASportsFan]

You've got to be kidding. I could write a book on this subject.

I took several religion classes in college, and you know what? The students that did the best (i.e. knew the history of Christianity, etc) were NOT Christians. I got the highest grade in every religion class I took in college, and you want to know what? The more I learned about it, it's early years and origins, the MORE I knew it was a bunch of B.S. The Christians in the class were the ones that barely got by with C's. It's easy to believe in something just because everyone else is doing it, your parents brought you up that way, or any other lemming excuse.

I challenge all of you to open your minds and look at the other various religions and spiritual traditions in the world. Guess what? Some of them are not faith based. Some are results based!!! I challenge all of you to look at the world order in the years before and just after Jesus' life. Research the cultural norms (what was acceptable). Research where many of the Christian "beliefs" came from. Many were borrowed from early religions. Research how early decision makers decided what was cannonized and what was discarded by the waste pile. If you do your research, you will find what a scam Chrisitanity is, how a few early members forced their personal views into what was to became included in the Bible.

[indy legend]

You are free to believe or not to believe in anything you want with your "open mind". As for me I'll take my chances with what I believe. I'm just so happy you are so tolerant and respectful of other's beliefs. Calling all those who believe in Christianity idiots is incredibly open minded. Enjoy and God Bless you.

[heavesrock]

Read the bible, LASportsfans. Tell me how many of things predicted in there has happened and how many things God said happened before anyone knew do happen. So a Christian got a C in a class so Christiananity isn't real?

[tbayz1]

nice website Zeke

and LA, show a lil respect man ;)

[zeke41]

You've got to be kidding. I could write a book on this subject. All of you idiots that believe in Christianity are being fooled and wasting your time.

I took several religion classes in college, and you know what? The students that did the best (i.e. knew the history of Christianity, etc) were NOT Christians. I got the highest grade in every religion class I took in college, and you want to know what? The more I learned about it, it's early years and origins, the MORE I knew it was a bunch of B.S. The Christians in the class were the ones that barely got by with C's. It's easy to believe in something just because everyone else is doing it, your parents brought you up that way, or any other lemming excuse.

I challenge all of you to open your minds and look at the other various religions and spiritual traditions in the world. Guess what? Some of them are not faith based. Some are results based!!! I challenge all of you to look at the world order in the years before and just after Jesus' life. Research the cultural norms (what was acceptable). Research where many of the Christian "beliefs" came from. Many were borrowed from early religions. Research how early decision makers decided what was cannonized and what was discarded by the waste pile. If you do your research, you will find what a scam Chrisitanity is, how a few early members forced their personal views into what was to became included in the Bible.


My friend, my friend, my friend,

Once again you have attacked me without knowing something about me. That's okay. I will address you the way I address all skeptics. Just so you know, I, too, was at a crossroads and began doubting every bit of my faith. You took several religion classes...my major was religion. I must admit, I was very depressed to hear some of the history of Chirstianity. Fortunately, I couldn't exactly decide not to take any more classes. It was my major. If I wanted to graduate, I had to finish it out.

As I learned more, everything started to make sense. Just so you know, I DID study other religions and their leaders. I studied Daoism (or Taoism), Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism. I studied Confucius, Joseph Smith (Founder of the Morman religion), Gautama Buddha, etc. My wife is from Sri Lanak, a Buddhist country. I've spoken openly with Buddhists and Hindus. Did you kniow several Buddhists believe in Jesus?

I should send you my final graduate seminar paper. It was on this very exact topic. I wanted to know why there were so many religions, if Christianity is the only right religion, etc. I had the same questions that you have (well, you seem to have given up on finding an answer altogether), only I pushed on to find out for myself. I researched every religion, broke them down, and discussed the similarities and differences. What I found was astounding. The basic premise was that...you are right, Christianity DOES share similar beliefs and teachings as other religions. You're wrong, in that you assume Christianity stole those teachings from the others. I found a significant piece of research in Judaism. There's an old Rabiinic teaching that asserts that God had been attempting to reach all people of every different culture. Only the Israelittes (Abraham) answered the call. Let's face it, we all know there's a higher power! According to Christianity, since day one, God has been in the picture as far as humanity is concerned. Sure...we have strayed...all of us have, and continue to do so.

I went further - even the Christianity practice in most churches today is not the Christianity that Christ preached. His message was love and forgiveness. His message was, "Don't fret about what you will eat or drink. God will supply all of your needs." Umm...that's why I have a problem with preachers that are WAY TO focussed on getting money into the tithing plate. Fact - if we all could conform to the message of love and peace, and do so by accepting the true sacrifice of Jesus Christ, we would all get along, life would be peaceful, and we would...well, we'd be in heaven. It's not that way, though, and so we debate and fight each other in an effort to prove that we are right (a lot like you - you think you're right and that Christianity is a farce). Well - I say prove it! You can't, just like I can't prove that believig in Jesus is what YOU need to do. It's faith-based.

Who wants a girlfriend or boyfriend that is forced to love you? Our relationship with God is by choice, and it requires faith. If your girlfriend or boyfriend was forced to love you, wouldn't you question whether or not he or she REALLY, in fact, loves you? God wants us to choose him. Showing up in our face with bells on in 2007 isn't necessary. Enough miracles were done throughout the history of Judaism and while Jesus was around to cause the biggest stir in our world. The Bible???? Best seller list EVERY year. Heck, our time is split by "The year of our Lord" (Anno Domino - or B.C. and A.D.). Another small point before I'm finished. The disciples ran when Jesus was killed. There are records stating that they denied Christ, and were fleeing for their own lives. You didn't see them starting a revolt to get him off the cross. However, those same people died preaching the Gospel after the third day. They went from denial to giving their lives! Sounds to me like they seen a ghost - or...more so...a resurerected Jesus of Nazareth.

Happy Easter, everyone! Especially you, LA! I hope I didn't offend you. Don't quit on your search for truth. It's right there. Satan's biggest defense is to convince us all that God cannot be trusted!

[Fells]

Zeke,

By no means am I a Christian; in fact I don't believe in organized religion, but that is for another place and time. I do respect what you are doing, and you have a great looking site. I wish you all the best in your endeavor.

LA, personally I do not believe in religion at all, but please respect Zeke, his beliefs, and combining what he loves into something good and productive. Most of us just sit on our tails and do nothing. At least Zeke is doing something.

Fells

[mvhcpa]

You've got to be kidding. I could write a book on this subject. All of you idiots that believe in Christianity are being fooled and wasting your time.

I took several religion classes in college, and you know what? The students that did the best (i.e. knew the history of Christianity, etc) were NOT Christians. I got the highest grade in every religion class I took in college, and you want to know what? The more I learned about it, it's early years and origins, the MORE I knew it was a bunch of B.S. The Christians in the class were the ones that barely got by with C's. It's easy to believe in something just because everyone else is doing it, your parents brought you up that way, or any other lemming excuse.

I challenge all of you to open your minds and look at the other various religions and spiritual traditions in the world. Guess what? Some of them are not faith based. Some are results based!!! I challenge all of you to look at the world order in the years before and just after Jesus' life. Research the cultural norms (what was acceptable). Research where many of the Christian "beliefs" came from. Many were borrowed from early religions. Research how early decision makers decided what was cannonized and what was discarded by the waste pile. If you do your research, you will find what a scam Chrisitanity is, how a few early members forced their personal views into what was to became included in the Bible.

...is as bad as the one you acccuse most Christians of having. Be sure and read Zeke's reply to you. I think he treats you with a lot more respect than you treated him and the other Chrsitians here--not to mention with more respect than you think most Christians deal with other folks.

P.S. Zeke--I wish I could have your self control when discussing religion!

Michael Val
(who is a 4th Degree Knight of Columbus--and PROUD of being an IDIOT for CHRIST!!!)

[LASportsFan]

My friend, my friend, my friend,

Once again you have attacked me without knowing something about me. That's okay. I will address you the way I address all skeptics. Just so you know, I, too, was at a crossroads and began doubting every bit of my faith. You took several religion classes...my major was religion. I must admit, I was very depressed to hear some of the history of Chirstianity. Fortunately, I couldn't exactly decide not to take any more classes. It was my major. If I wanted to graduate, I had to finish it out.

As I learned more, everything started to make sense. Just so you know, I DID study other religions and their leaders. I studied Daoism (or Taoism), Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism. I studied Confucius, Joseph Smith (Founder of the Morman religion), Gautama Buddha, etc. My wife is from Sri Lanak, a Buddhist country. I've spoken openly with Buddhists and Hindus. Did you kniow several Buddhists believe in Jesus?

I should send you my final graduate seminar paper. It was on this very exact topic. I wanted to know why there were so many religions, if Christianity is the only right religion, etc. I had the same questions that you have (well, you seem to have given up on finding an answer altogether), only I pushed on to find out for myself. I researched every religion, broke them down, and discussed the similarities and differences. What I found was astounding. The basic premise was that...you are right, Christianity DOES share similar beliefs and teachings as other religions. You're wrong, in that you assume Christianity stole those teachings from the others. I found a significant piece of research in Judaism. There's an old Rabiinic teaching that asserts that God had been attempting to reach all people of every different culture. Only the Israelittes (Abraham) answered the call. Let's face it, we all know there's a higher power! According to Christianity, since day one, God has been in the picture as far as humanity is concerned. Sure...we have strayed...all of us have, and continue to do so.

I went further - even the Christianity practice in most churches today is not the Christianity that Christ preached. His message was love and forgiveness. His message was, "Don't fret about what you will eat or drink. God will supply all of your needs." Umm...that's why I have a problem with preachers that are WAY TO focussed on getting money into the tithing plate. Fact - if we all could conform to the message of love and peace, and do so by accepting the true sacrifice of Jesus Christ, we would all get along, life would be peaceful, and we would...well, we'd be in heaven. It's not that way, though, and so we debate and fight each other in an effort to prove that we are right (a lot like you - you think you're right and that Christianity is a farce). Well - I say prove it! You can't, just like I can't prove that believig in Jesus is what YOU need to do. It's faith-based.

Who wants a girlfriend or boyfriend that is forced to love you? Our relationship with God is by choice, and it requires faith. If your girlfriend or boyfriend was forced to love you, wouldn't you question whether or not he or she REALLY, in fact, loves you? God wants us to choose him. Showing up in our face with bells on in 2007 isn't necessary. Enough miracles were done throughout the history of Judaism and while Jesus was around to cause the biggest stir in our world. The Bible???? Best seller list EVERY year. Heck, our time is split by "The year of our Lord" (Anno Domino - or B.C. and A.D.). Another small point before I'm finished. The disciples ran when Jesus was killed. There are records stating that they denied Christ, and were fleeing for their own lives. You didn't see them starting a revolt to get him off the cross. However, those same people died preaching the Gospel after the third day. They went from denial to giving their lives! Sounds to me like they seen a ghost - or...more so...a resurerected Jesus of Nazareth.

Happy Easter, everyone! Especially you, LA! I hope I didn't offend you. Don't quit on your search for truth. It's right there. Satan's biggest defense is to convince us all that God cannot be trusted!



Zeke, I must first say that I admire you for your knowledge of the subject. If you've done your research and have come to the conclusions that you have, I can definitely respect you for that and admire the time you've put in to delving into this all-important subject. Those that I cannot be tollerant of are the "lemming Christians" - those that simply believe because their network of friends and family around them also believe: those that have never delved into the details for themselves.

I have not given up the search for truth. In fact, I am constantly reading books on other religions (Buddhism, Hinduism, etc) as well as comparative religion. Yes, I am very aware that some Buddhists believe in Jesus. Many also believe in Krishna, Muhammed and others. They believe that these inspired people were Bodhisatvas (enlightened people), but not "God" in the flesh. Many Buddhists believe that there are many paths to the top of the mountain (the top of the mountain being pure white light or enlightenment). They respect these enlightened leaders for trailblazing another path that can lead one towards enlightenment. I must ask you a similar question. Do you know that many Christians practice Buddhist meditation for the mind-clearing benefits of such practice? I'm sure you do.

There are also other explanations of why humanity as a whole has an affinity for religion. It may be a byproduct of evolution. I suggest that you read an short article on this subject:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/04/04/neurotheology/index.html

While you may not believe it, you most certainly can respect it as another viewpoint.

I also must point out that you bring up the argument of me never being able to disprove your religion because it is faith-based. Remember, what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

I must also point out one other thing. Many people state that Christianity is a peaceful religion and that Islam is inherently evil and violent. The first half of the argument is not so. Consider the following passage from the Bible:

"If your brother, the son of your father or of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the spouse whom you embrace, or your most intimate friend, tries to secretly seduce you, saying," Let us go and serve other gods," unknown to you or your ancestors before you, gods of the peoples surrounding you, whether near you or far away, anywhere throughout the world, you must not consent, you must not listen to him; you must show him no pity, you must not spare him or conceal his guilt. No, you must kill him, your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death and the hands of the rest of the people following. You must stone him to death, since he has tried to divert you from Yahweh your God..." - (Deuteronomy 13:7-11)

That is not exactly tollerant of others, now is it? I take exception to those that like to say, "that is not supposed to be taken literally." So, in the cases where there are passages in the Bible that are problematic to one's assertion that Christianity is a caring and uplifting religion, it is ok to take an interpretive understanding of those passages while taking literally the passages that state to love thy brother. What if a skeptic were to do the opposite? You can use the exact same logic to take the passage telling you to kill all non-believers and take an interpretive understanding of the passage that says to love thy brother. I can think of several ways to twist that passage around to make it have an evil translation.

Just some food for thought.

[preeths]

You've got to be kidding. I could write a book on this subject. All of you idiots that believe in Christianity are being fooled and wasting your time.

I took several religion classes in college, and you know what? The students that did the best (i.e. knew the history of Christianity, etc) were NOT Christians. I got the highest grade in every religion class I took in college, and you want to know what? The more I learned about it, it's early years and origins, the MORE I knew it was a bunch of B.S. The Christians in the class were the ones that barely got by with C's. It's easy to believe in something just because everyone else is doing it, your parents brought you up that way, or any other lemming excuse.

I challenge all of you to open your minds and look at the other various religions and spiritual traditions in the world. Guess what? Some of them are not faith based. Some are results based!!! I challenge all of you to look at the world order in the years before and just after Jesus' life. Research the cultural norms (what was acceptable). Research where many of the Christian "beliefs" came from. Many were borrowed from early religions. Research how early decision makers decided what was cannonized and what was discarded by the waste pile. If you do your research, you will find what a scam Chrisitanity is, how a few early members forced their personal views into what was to became included in the Bible.

This is WAY out of line. Everyone is free to express their beliefs. The first post was basketball and ABA related. This one has nothing to do with anything related to minor league sports. Please be sensitive to others who believe differently than you. Calling people "idiots" is enough to get this post deleted by itself.

[preeths]

And a note to everyone, if we're going to discuss faith here, let's please do so in the context of minor league sports. To say the subject itself is beyond the scope of these boards is a vast understatement. Regardless of what views are expressed regarding faith and sports, I hope we can all avoid insults and personal attacks.

[LASportsFan]

Preeths, please see my last posted reply. It is very tolerant and respectful of Zeke. Deleting any suchs posts would show OSC-sponsored support of one religion over all others. I don't think that is the message you would like to send. I appologize for the harsh language in my first post on the subject matter and will edit it out.

[zeke41]

I apologize for things getting all intense. I never meant for that to happen. I actually questioned whether or not I should post the thread about my new website - maybe it wasn't appropriate.

Anyway, just thought I should apologize. Thanks...everyone...who has commented about the website. That certainly is appreciated. You all are awesome...even you, LA!!! It's all good. I'm sure you mean well. I hope you know that I do, too. Oh...and by the way...I'm not a push-over, never fight back kinda guy (wish I could be, but I'm human). I've just learned a long time ago that when you're dealing with religion, all the heat needs to get out of the kitchen. I'm not trying to cook anything!!!! People never hear a person who is threatening in their dialogue!

Happy Easter everyone!

[Shootmaster_44]

In the spirit of being pantheological happy passover too.

To bring this back to basketball, is this the same organization that is behind the IBL's Colorado Crossover?

[preeths]

Preeths, please see my last posted reply. It is very tolerant and respectful of Zeke. Deleting any suchs posts would show OSC-sponsored support of one religion over all others. I don't think that is the message you would like to send. I appologize for the harsh language in my first post on the subject matter and will edit it out.

It is a reminder to everyone, not just you. According to the stated rules of this board, I could have deleted your initial post. I chose not to in the hopes that we can keep the dialogue civil, and it appears those hopes have panned out. I want to make sure we stay on topic, while still allowing for a wide range of opinions.

I will say that OSC is a private business, not a public entity, and I do have a faith which is very important to me. It is just not the subject of this board. Happy Easter to all.

[preeths]

I apologize for things getting all intense. I never meant for that to happen. I actually questioned whether or not I should post the thread about my new website - maybe it wasn't appropriate.

Anyway, just thought I should apologize. Thanks...everyone...who has commented about the website. That certainly is appreciated. You all are awesome...even you, LA!!! It's all good. I'm sure you mean well. I hope you know that I do, too. Oh...and by the way...I'm not a push-over, never fight back kinda guy (wish I could be, but I'm human). I've just learned a long time ago that when you're dealing with religion, all the heat needs to get out of the kitchen. I'm not trying to cook anything!!!! People never hear a person who is threatening in their dialogue!

Happy Easter everyone!

No apology necessary, your original post was on target. The last thing I want anyone to feel is that they need to hide their faith or personal views when they are relevant to the topic being discussed. It's all good. I'm heartened by the turn this dialogue took and proud of our readers who have strong feelings either way for being respectful to others.

[zeke41]

In the spirit of being pantheological happy passover too.

To bring this back to basketball, is this the same organization that is behind the IBL's Colorado Crossover?

No...never heard of that team. I'm trying something new and different. Eventually, I hope to gather enough funds and interest to start my own team in Kissimmee, FL. My big investor, Dee Brown, opted not to participate, thanks, in part, to the stupid CEO and playoff fiascos. Lucky me, huh?

[Shootmaster_44]

No...never heard of that team. I'm trying something new and different. Eventually, I hope to gather enough funds and interest to start my own team in Kissimmee, FL. My big investor, Dee Brown, opted not to participate, thanks, in part, to the stupid CEO and playoff fiascos. Lucky me, huh?

If you're looking for an idea of how to run a Christian-based franchise, apparently the Colorado Crossover of the IBL is one of them. I discovered that while researching the new IBL team in Saskatoon.

[jwalters]

I forgot to mention that those were suspected witches in Salem. In all seriousness is the topic of religion really, in the light of all our common social problems, anything to be fighting over. Benjamin Franklin spoke in 1749 of something he called "Public Religion". This was not mandated Christian or Deist ideology, it was the idea that without everyone in society living by a common or aggreed upon set of morals and values there would be chaos. This is a balancing act between all beliefs in that given community. The first amendment to the constitution references religion by stating " congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the excercise thereof." When you sit and think about it this is a great thing. I don't have to be confronted by images of the Ten Commandments in public places, but neither I nor the government can keep you from practicing your religion, displaying those images in your own home, or taking your time to create a basketball website to further your beliefs. Discussion like this in such forums is a good thing. I am glad the moderators have allowed this to go on because this allows us to feel each other out and get some stuff off our chest. I am not, however, apologizing for anything that I have said during the course of this discussion. I'm not sorry and you shouldn't be either. This is America so long as we treat each other with a level of respect and abide by our own "Public Religion" all is fair game. Heck if not for the strange kinship of a whore-mongering inventor, a Virginia Whisky distiller, a Massachusetts brewer, a progressive Virginia planter, and a host of radical religious leaders we would not have won our independence from the British. If we band together to help the PBL and other rebel leagues as well as those guys did we can contribute to the creation of a new breed of minor league sports. A breed of sports leagues that actually feel accountable to the fans. isn't that really why we're here.

[Fells]

I just believe in the religion and temples of basketball and baseball........

[zeke41]

If I may, allow me to shed some light to why I believe so strongly in Jesus Christ (this will pull this duscussion back to basketball, too)

I cannot begin to describe my love for the game. It was my way of expressing myself...to create joy in the hearts of those who watched. My road to get that opportunity was EXTREMELY difficult. I was a guy that STAYED in his Detroit suburb backyard from 3pm after school until 9-10pm. We'd play 3-on-3 all day long! I wasn't the best, but I could handle the ball well (loved to cross people over). It sucked, but I always got cut from the school team - NEVER ONCE did I make a school team (cut 5 times). I was hovering around the 5' area, so I know I was short, but...we did have a guy on the team that was 4'10" playing (gimmicks start early I guess).

Now I hated church. It was utterly boring, and I, like many other people, didn't like the idea of someone telling me what to do and how to live. My mom forced me to go to church, but eventually, I would put up enough of a fuss that she stopped making me go. I went through 11th grade in high school without really going at all. Well, my little brother was still being made to go, and he had some pageant thing and wanted me to come. Of course I had to be big brother and go. Well, I went, and I found out the church had a basketball team. For the first time I started playing organized ball . The catch was I had to go to church once a week or I couldn't play. After the season finished, so did my church-going.

So I met this girl - BEAUTIFUL girl, Holly. Her sister was my manager at Arbys. I wanted her to hook me up with Holly, but she said I a church boy so she wouldn't. I said what any guy would've said (She was HOTT!!!!), "I go to church!" So I started going to church. Well, we got to be VERY, very close friends. Almost dating, but never really made anything exclusive. She was a spititual person, but never really a church-goer either. I did start getting into the whole church thing. I started understanding how to pray, I started reading the Bible a little more, and it just seemed to be so much more relevant when I read it as "God's Word" instead of reading it like a historical account. Overall, I started to become a decent, fun-loving Christian.

After almost 2 years, I got tired of waiting for Holly, started dating this other girl from church. She was really cool. Holly got jealous. After two months of dating, my new girlfriend had a boyfriend in Japan in the military. He was coming home, and she said she still had feelings for him. We broke up. I called the other girl to talk. She just met this other guy. Big mess. Broken-hearted and frustrated, I decided to get in my car and go for a drive.

I drove ALL THE WAY to Eastern KY. Got a hotel room. I found myself praying a lot. Saw some guys playing on a playground near a school. Decided to play a little ball. Kicked the crap out of them. They were super impressed. Started asking me where I played in high school, blah, blah, blah. They were amazed that I never played in high school. Told me about Pikeville College. I inquired. I thought the whole weekend was a bit weird and coincidental. I was out of high school, never played, but STILL COULD NOT shake my dream to play profesisonal basketball. I was very vocal about it too (I was crazy, I guess). People made fun of me....told me I was crazy!

Anyway, started praying a whole lot more, trying to figure out what I should do. Ran across a verse in the Bible, Psalm 37:4 "Delight in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart!" It finally made sense. I came to the conclusion that my passion for basketball was God-given. I believed, even before things started to take shape, that God had allowed me to struggle so hard so people could see that no matter how hard something is, when you trust in God over everything else (work ethic, other people's promises, etc.), things always come out in the end. I believed that my struggles would eventually be over. I believed I would be successful.

Soooo...I took a leap of faith, got a big student loan, and took off for Eastern KY. My randomly-picked roommate just happened to be on the basketball team (which is strange because athletes are almost always placed with roommates from the team). I registered for classes WITH the Coach's wife (she worked in the Registrars office). Got up with the coach. He let me go through conditioning with the team (tryouts were over the summer, and they obviously got most of their players from recruiting anyway). Worked my butt off, walked on the team...just like that. Redshirted as a freshman to get stronger. Played the next year, moved up to Varsity at the end of the year.

First game I played was senior night. We were losing by like 30 points. Crowd is chanting "put in King!" Coach puts me in at 3:01 mark. Struggle a bit (was very nervous). 8 seconds to go, there's a steal...my teammate passes me the ball. It's me and two defenders. I cross the first guy over, head straight to the rim, and score the layup up and under the other guy! CROWD....GOES....CRAZY!!!! Standing ovation, and we lost by like 40!

Everyone had heard my intentions since I arrived - I wanted to play professional basketball. Of course, I was a joke to almost all of them (especially my first year). But I worked my butt off, because I had finally gotten the opportunity to actually play. I would run around town twice a day. People would watch me, beep their horns, etc. They walked with me on my journey to get better, which made that game all the mosre special. They got to see me rise up the ranks, prove myself and actually get the chance to play.

So, I go home that summer. My friends back home are all happy for me...Can't believe all the trials I surpassed to get to play for a NAIA Div. I school. I got so caught up in everything that I didn't hardly go to church at all that summer. Too busy celebrating at the clubs with all my friends (Just turned 21 that year). But...I worked my BUTT off. I came in the next season primed and ready to be a major player. I arrive back to KY........and got cut! UNBELIEVABLE!!! Coach didn't even have a reason.

Thought it was over. Drank my sorrows away. Tried to take things in my own hands...transfered to a Div. II school to play - that was a mess (met my future wife though). Coach's liked me....teammates hated me (too Motown for those mountain boys). Never played a regular season game! Met my wife. She shaped me up, helped me believe in myself again. Transferred back to PIkeville with her to finish up. Had no eligibility left, but worked with the team. Went to the 2001 NAIA Final Four...got a big fat ring! Old coach was gone. The assistant (my JV coach who loved my passion and work ethic, and also voted NOT to cut me), told me if I had stayed, I would probably have been playing in that tournament! Oops!!!

Anyway, I graduate. Work 3-4 years putting my wife through law school. I get in touch with the Orlando ABA team. After her graduation, she says I can go wherever I want and chase my dream (waht a gal, huh?). We move to Orlando, I plug myself in, end up playing semi-pro basketball. Man, if you're still reading along, and have questions or want more details, I'll be happy to provide you with them.

Summary - When I started playing ball to show everyone that God can do the impossible so long as you have faith and believe, my bball career took off, and that is EVERYTHING I ever wanted in this life. I know that he instilled that bball passion in me for that purpose. When I started changinmg my life around, I grew 7 inches in 2 years, and my confidence as a player skyrocketed! I love my life....my story. I love to share it. Sure people don't believe in God. That's fine, but I wanna tell you....you are REALLY missing out on life. I wouldn't change a thing that I went through.

[zeke41]

Man that was long...


Anyway....

I remember sitting in my locker before my first game (the game I talked about above). I wasn't supposed to play. For the most part, I thought Coach was just letting me dress out to reward me for working so hard. Who would've known we would get blasted that day on senior night. Anyway, he never asked me what jersey number I wanted. I use to wear 11 for church league, because my role model was Isaiah Thomas. I wanted a number that represented my new founf faith, and one of my favorite verses was Psalm 37-4. I put those two numbers together and started wearing 41 (37 + 4).

Well, coach ended up putting 14 in my locker that day, and I thought that was way cool. It was, in fact, 41 backwards, and believe me, I felt like my life was backwards some times! Well, I'm sitting in my locker praying, and just really thanking God for helping me get that far. I had dreamed of playing college basketball. It was step one to playing professional. I was cryingtears of joy...really happy. Well, God brought something to my attention. I could hear it so clearly, it was like, "Mark, let me show you how perfect I am. You think that it's perfect to have 14, because 41 is 14 backwards. Your life isn't backwards. It's working out exactly as I have planned. 3+7+4.....is 14. Mark...be ready, because you just might play tonight, son!"

TALK ABOUT CHILL BUMPS!!! Sure enoguh, I played...I scored...and I started realizing my dream to play, well ANY organized basketball. And what did I do thus far? I did, in fact play pro ball. Might be just for the ABA, but hey, it sure is awesome to say, and the youth that I speak to???? L-O-V-E my stroy. It's inspiring, and I know that God has had his handprint on my life all the way!

I know, enough already. I just wanted to share!

[TopSpin]

Gentlemen, great discussion on religion. I can't stop reading and re-reading your thoughts and opinions. I do have some questions and please continue.
Zere41, could you give me your thoughts on Deuteronomy 13:7-11. Also, I would very much be interested in reading your college report on the different regilion.

[Fells]

Considering that I am more or less an athiest, I stay away from religion........

[BreakersFan]

Hey Zeke - Great site - keep on inspiring us!

Also, did you catch Zach Johnson's interview after he won the Masters yesterday? You two have some things in common - your faith is helping you realize some dreams and evangelize at the same time!

[preeths]

I don't mean to stifle a good discussion, but this is a sports message board. Please stay on topic.

[zeke41]

Gentlemen, great discussion on religion. I can't stop reading and re-reading your thoughts and opinions. I do have some questions and please continue.
Zere41, could you give me your thoughts on Deuteronomy 13:7-11. Also, I would very much be interested in reading your college report on the different regilion.

First, I have been very compelled to dig up my college report. Let me find it and if you send me an email address, I will forward it to you.

Second, about Deuteronomy 13:7-11:

Sounds brutal, huh. It is very harsh. The question is why would God be so violent. Why would he condone murder, when his own Commandments demand us not to kill? Why would Jesus preach a message of peace and love when God condones violence of this nature?

1st - I believe (and Christianity teaches) that there is an afterlife. The afterlife isn't solely for Christians who "Believe in Jesus!" When we die, we transcend into the afterlife. Where we end up in that afterlife depends on where we stand spiritually (I am speaking, of course, from a Christian perspective).

A reality that doesn't get enough attention (and it's partly because there hasn't been as much written on it in) is that there is a Spiritual war going on. Satan, an angel of God, exaulted himself over God and got kicked out of heaven. He took some angels with him, and, to sum up for the sake of being brief and sticking to the subject, there's a battle for souls within our reality, what we know as life on earth.

The point to be made is this: I think we all have a tendancy to put too much weight in the life on earth that we know. It sounds horrible to us, especially for someone who believes that when we die, our existence is over. I can accept a passage like this because I know that those people will move on to something else in the afterlife. My heart goes out to them, but...hey, they don't wish to honor, obey and respect the very entity solely responsible for their existence. I hate to say it, but...if we created humanity, would we act any more merciful if we were God, especially after all of the different ways he has shown up to reveal himself to us?

Throughout antiquity, miracles, signs and wonders have occured to assure to those around that God is, in fact, real, and is in full control. Christian or not, we all have a place within us that cannot help but discuss this very topic. God is real. Ask yourself... "Why am I so compelled to deal with the subject of religion?" We have to...we are created wit ha palce where we need to fill that void. That void is for God! Even people like LA or Jwalters who are agianst Christianity were still compelled to click the link that said, "If you love basketball and are a Christian!" They plainly told us...they aren't Christians, yet they are compelled to deal with the subject. Right guys?

I cannot blame the way they feel. face it...Christian history is depressing at times. You know what's even more depressing? Human history! We are selfish people. In fact, what we do with our God-given free will is not to much different from what Satan and the other angels did with there's. We want to be exaulted. We want to be rigth. We want success, we want to be envied. We want power.

For this reason, God sent Jesus. He knew how much we had evolved to appreciate life. He knew we would come to value our existence over everything else. So waht does he do? Sends his son, Jesus, to prove that God is willing to give up what we value most - LIFE - to show his love. There's no other greater gift...no other expression of love that is greater than to lay down your life for someone. What else more can you give?

.......

[zeke41]

If you wouldn't mind, can you just allow us to continue a bit here? If necessary, I will mve it to a PM dialogue, but...I think several people are enjoying this dialogue. It was derived from a sports-like discussion. I'd hate to have to copy and past and send messages to every single person through PM.

Can you let us continue, please? I'm really enjoying the different religious viewpoints here!

[preeths]

I think it's probably best to take it to PMs at this point. The topic is more than worthy of discussion, but these boards just aren't the place. Hope everyone understands.

[zeke41]

Going back to my thoughts of Deauteronomy....

The very first commandments involve loving the one true God. That's the first priority to God. As civilization has evolved, so has God's treatment of the whole ordeal. I said it before...Satan's greatest strength is to convince us that God cannot be trusted. I look at it like this: Religion was my major, I was 3 credits and a seminar shy of a history major as well. I've read the Bible, and I've read other historical accounts of our existence. Several pieces of Biblical history continue to be verified as we continue to study. Take the notion of the continental drift. this evidence clearly supports the possibility of a great flood. Even other historical sources speak of a great flood.

As I have tried to articulate in my personal testimony earlier (Surely Preeths would like us to bring it back to the subject of basketball), basketball has been a tool that God has used to bring me to the level of faith I have in Him. No one, at this point in my life, could sway me otherwise. You come to a point in life (at least I have) where you just have to say, you know...the search for truth is over. Now let me put more energy into fully understanding that truth. I don't need to know if God or Jesus is real or not. It's SOOOO very obvious to me. I walked in my shoes, and watched God bring to pass things that I had dreamed of as a kid. Those dreams started early, and I didn't understand the whole process until I looked at it with heavenly eyes. There's a bigger picture.

Even in this forum - I'm convinced that some people that are reading this are getting newer perspectives on their own faith journey. As for me - I begin to understand how other people think and why they think that way. The beauty of my situation, unlike organized religion (or church hierarchies), is that I don't force people into a certain lifestyle. I feel complete by sharing my story. What people do with it is up to them.

The most underappreciated verses in the Bible are the ones where Jesus said not to judge. Our world is passed that. In Old Testament times, I guess it was necessary. But hey...everyone was fighting about everything. I don't judge people. When I'm asked if a Buddhist or Muslim can go to heaven, I don't attempt to answer that question. Who am I? I don't know. That's God's decision. I've seen the worst of people transformed, including myself. I'm a basketball player who has fulfilled dreams within the game that I know I would not have if it hadn't been for God's favor. He placed me in the right places at the right times. For that I am thankful.

[zeke41]

Hey Zeke - Great site - keep on inspiring us!

Also, did you catch Zach Johnson's interview after he won the Masters yesterday? You two have some things in common - your faith is helping you realize some dreams and evangelize at the same time!

No, I didn't. Do you know of a link where I can find it? I've had a busy weekend.

[The Magician]

Zeke, go ahead and take this discussion to:

http://abasite.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=talk

Everyone will need to REGISTER ... and then everyone can copy and paste their comments as made previously, so the discussion can continue.

[heavesrock]

One problem with that is every post I've made has been deleted.

[zeke41]

I moved to the other page. Thanks Magician. I would, however, appreciate people's comments. ideas, etc. about the website itself (www.thecrossoverbasketball.com). I've gotten LOADS of great ideas from people who have visited, which I know will enhance the site.

I've springboarded the site off of my bball experience, which has been tied to the ABA as of late. I appreciate you, Preeths, for allowing the discussion and what not. I'm trying to figure out ways to raise money for a team in Kissimmee (most likely in the PBL now since I've been blocked by the ABA since it's so close to the Orlando market)...by the way, that's garbage to me. There are tons of teams that play less than 30 miles from eacho ther. The Orlando and Kissimmee venues were 25 miles apart. Plus, I kept the Orlando team afloat all season long, and now I'm just tossed to the wayside with no help at all. I'd like to think I would've been an assett to the league, but apparently they feel otherwise. Oh well.

Anyway, as I was saying, I have some merchandise ideas connected with the site, and an ideal for a bball camp that will center on spiritual topics and guidance as well. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully, you all will find my team in the next year or two (or sooner should a miracle happen) and you can all support me. I've got a job interview with a bank tomorrow. Hopefully I can get in real nice there and get some support.

Anyway....on with the discussions