Time for an All Canadian Pro League

[CJPhillips]

Montreal and Quebec have showed they are able to survive the ups and downs of the ABA.
Missassauga and Halifax have signed on the dotted line for next season.
Ottawa also has the phone number of Joe.
Vancouver and Lethbridge are said to be heading to the CBA.
Edmonton Sled Dawgz are official in the IBL and Calgary and Saskatoon want some of the summer hoops action.
That's nine (9) Canadian teams thinking pro hoops.
How about Winnipeg, London, Kitchner all three over 1/2 million?
That would give you a 12 team Canadian league?
Make that a lucky 13 teams as Hamilton has 750,000 populace.
Wait....if Hamilton got a pro hoops team then Toronto would want one (lol).
A coast-to-coast-to-coast Canuck league has been tried before but with a smart marketing plan and business knowledge it could be successfull.
Let's see? What am I doing next fall?
www.frozenhoops.com

[Shootmaster_44]

I'd definitely love to see summer basketball back here in Saskatoon. However, I'm not sure a Canadian league would work, unless it is split into a East and West Division. If those Divisions only play amongst themselves except for an all-star game and a championship series, then perhaps it could work. But the major problem with the NBL and to a lesser extent the WBL, is travel costs. Granted WestJet did not exist in those days, so cheap air travel wasn't an option. But still, it would take an owner with deep pockets to fund a team in a cross-Canada league.

Saskatoon specifically would have a problem with finding an owner. The Canadian Major Indoor Soccer League that sorta started its season this past month, couldn't find a local owner for the team so the league President is acting as an owner. Secondly, the Northern League is attempting to put an expansion team in Saskatoon for the 2008 season and is finding the same problem. So I'm thinking a third team wandering around the Saskatoon business community with its hand out would be a problem. Unless one of the major corporations, such as Cameco, decided to back a team, I really doubt an owner could be found. But on a purely hypothetical level, yes I'd love to see this happen.

For the league to work you'd need an even number of teams, so either 12 or 14 would have to be found. Here's the way I'd see the division breaking down:

East
Montreal Royal
Quebec Kebekwa
Mississauga Red Wolves
Halifax Rainmen
Ottawa
Hamilton
St. John's

West
Edmonton Sled Dogz
Vancouver Dragons
Lethbridge Canadians
Calgary
Saskatoon
Winnipeg
Regina

These all have arenas that seat at least 5,000 with the smallest arena I believe being the Brandt Centre in Regina. Granted, Quebec and Montreal do not play in the NHL arenas in those cities and Vancouver and Edmonton do not plan to play in them either, so a capacity of 5,000 may not be a major concern. All these cities have comparable CIS/CCAA gyms that could work for facilities in these instances. In Saskatoon, for example, the U of S' Physical Activity Complex seats roughly 2,500-3,000 people, so it could be used. Apparently, the Sled Dogz in Edmonton are planning to either use U of A or Grant McEwen's gym, not Rexall Place, so a University/College gym league could keep costs down. Plus, since its a summer league, if it looks like the team would sell more than the gym would hold, most arenas across Canada are empty and could be booked in a pinch if necessary. So if Saskatoon's team is going to draw 5 or 6,000 people to a game, you could easily shift the game to Credit Union Centre.

The biggest issue with a league such as this is ownership. You must find competent owners to run the teams. But beyond their business smarts, you need owners with deep pockets to fund the travel and pay the players. I hate to say it, but the ABA has been a good thing for showing potential leagues what not to do. So if this league studies all the mistakes the ABA made and everything moneywise fell into place, this league could be successful. The one caveat I'd have for the league is a mandatory 2 CIS/CCAA bred players. Make this a league where the top CIS/CCAA players can make a bit of a living as a pro basketball player. Outside of the ABA, which isn't really a good place to make a living, there are no real leagues for Canadian post-secondary players to make a living near home. Most CIS/CCAA players have to go to the obscure leagues in small European countries to do this. It would be nice to keep a portion of Canada's talent at home instead of exporting it abroad.

[tbayz1]

hockey rules across Canada, i dont know how basketball would do widespread like this, except for Toronto, they proved that they support the a Raptors very well, but then what happened with the Vancover Grizzles?

[storm]

Well there will be a team in Saskatoon for March 2008 as the same group that owns the Sled Dawgz franchise will be running the Saskatoon team. Sports Management Group who also own a few junior hockey teams are also looking at bringing the Northern League and an American Hockey League team to Sasakatoon. I have met with Edmonton's basketball coach and he has said the ownership has a strong business and marketing plan and have worked out a lease at the Credit Union Center.

[CJPhillips]

Talked to the owner and the website will be www.sleddawgz.com for the Edmonton team and as mentioned they will also own the Saskatoon team in the IBL. Calgary also has interest. Check out www.frozenhoops.com for a story tomorrow on the Sled Dawgz as we cover everything and anything to do with Canadian hoops

[Shootmaster_44]

That's awesome, summer basketball will draw very well in Saskatoon. Unless because this is April 1st you are pulling a fast one on this hard-up pro sports fan.

[Shootmaster_44]

Well there will be a team in Saskatoon for March 2008 as the same group that owns the Sled Dawgz franchise will be running the Saskatoon team. Sports Management Group who also own a few junior hockey teams are also looking at bringing the Northern League and an American Hockey League team to Sasakatoon. I have met with Edmonton's basketball coach and he has said the ownership has a strong business and marketing plan and have worked out a lease at the Credit Union Center.

That would be great to have an AHL team here. Except there are none to bring to Saskatoon IIRC. The AHL is capped at 30 teams and the only dormant team is the Edmonton franchise and I could've sworn that was moving to Rockford to be the upgraded UHL Icehogs. But that would be great if this all falls into place. Is the IBL more stable than the ABA, or is it another "bad joke" I just haven't been following?

[rams80]

That would be great to have an AHL team here. Except there are none to bring to Saskatoon IIRC. The AHL is capped at 30 teams and the only dormant team is the Edmonton franchise and I could've sworn that was moving to Rockford to be the upgraded UHL Icehogs. But that would be great if this all falls into place. Is the IBL more stable than the ABA, or is it another "bad joke" I just haven't been following?

Cincinnati became Rockford.

[Shootmaster_44]

Cincinnati became Rockford.

So Edmonton is still available then?

[Minor League Man]

Yes, they are. (I hope they move soon.)

[Shootmaster_44]

Yes, they are. (I hope they move soon.)

I'd be more than happy to see them play here in Saskatoon. Though I think it would kill the Blades if they did.

[nksports]

Here it is -- the Great White North Basketball League (No April Fools joke, just the way it should be. I borrowed some of the structure from shootmaster 44)
Eastern Conference
Maretime Division
Halifax Rainmen
St. John's Fishermen
Price Edwards Island Green Gablers
Sydney Clippers
Saint John (NB) Saints
Saint-Pierre Fighting Basque
St. Lawrence Division
Montreal Royal
Quebec Kebekwa
Mississauga Red Wolves
Ottawa Capitals
Hamilton Harriers
London Bridges
Western Conference
Prairie Division
Thunder Bay Terror
Winnepeg Northern Lakers
Saskatoon North Stars
Regina Rockets
Portage la Prairie Polar Bears
Yellowknife Arctic Miners
Mountain Pacific Division
Edmonton Sled Dogz
Vancouver Dragons
Lethbridge Canadians
Calgary Captains
Victoria Islanders
Deadhorse Gamblers

32 game season, 16 home, 16 away. In division -- 4 games = 20 (2 home, 2 away), out of division 2 games = 12 (1 home, 1 away). No cross conference play until playoff finals.

13 week season (3 games for 1st 6 weeks, 2 games for next 7 weeks)
Playoffs -- Division winners + next two teams per conference. All series best of three (game one at lower seed, games two and three at higher seed).
12 player roster + 2 practice players (full roster players $1,200 a week. practice players $500 a week. That's a team salary cap of $202,000 a season or roughly $175,325 US, 131,314 euros for Saint-Pierre).
Each team allowed four U.S. players and no more than two internationals. (reserve roster counts against these totals). The rest must be Canadian (exception: Saint-Pierre is allowed four U.S. players, two internationals and the remaining players may be any combination of French nationals or Canadians).
Trade deadline -- end of week 8. All players traded after week 8 must clear waivers.

If you average 3,000 fans a game at $10 average ticket price, you'll get an income of $480,000, so I realize you're cutting it pretty close. My guess is if a team could get about $200,000 to $300,000 in sponsorships and advertising, you'd be getting close to break even or making a small profit (since the population of Saint-Pierre is just 6,000, that means half the residents would have to show up for each home game, but since tourism is it's biggest industry behind fishing, it just might work. Then again, the French love subsidising everything, so maybe you could get the government to invest.).

Ownership requirements:
$4 million CDN net worth
$1.5 million CDN liquid
Performance bond equal to 1 year's total payroll (staff and players) plus travel expenses.
Home gym capacity of 3,500.
Court to FIBA standards.

Game rules: (Hybred of US and international rules).
NBA rules with following exception: FIBA 3-point line and court marked to FIBA rules (that means the funny (to US fans at least) flaired lane.

[storm]

Well the IBL is for real as they have a high quality of players such as former NBA slam dunk winner and NBA all-star Cedric Ceballos who will be playing for the Phoenix Flame and other former NBA players are Anthony Miller, Sean Higgins, God Shammgod just to name a few as well as former NBA first round pick Erick Barkley. Other players in the league that have been looked at by the NBA are Larry Morinia, Shantay Legans and Eric Fiegi. Former NCAA stand outs like Donald Watts, Washington Huskies, Micheal Lee former Kansas stand out, two time All Pac Ten player David Lucas also play in the league along with 7'9 Sun Ming Ming. Looking forward to the teams press conference in Saskatoon and in Edmonton.

[storm]

Can't forget about the Toronto Raptors joining LOL!!!!!!

[Shootmaster_44]

Well the IBL is for real as they have a high quality of players such as former NBA slam dunk winner and NBA all-star Cedric Ceballos who will be playing for the Phoenix Flame and other former NBA players are Anthony Miller, Sean Higgins, God Shammgod just to name a few as well as former NBA first round pick Erick Barkley. Other players in the league that have been looked at by the NBA are Larry Morinia, Shantay Legans and Eric Fiegi. Former NCAA stand outs like Donald Watts, Washington Huskies, Micheal Lee former Kansas stand out, two time All Pac Ten player David Lucas also play in the league along with 7'9 Sun Ming Ming. Looking forward to the teams press conference in Saskatoon and in Edmonton.

That's definitely a start. I hope Sun Ming Ming sticks around for the 2008 season. He may not be a great player, but he's definitely someone I'd love to say I saw play. Based on the quality of players, I would say this league is about the talent level of the WBL/NBL of the early-90's, where many CBA and European Leaguers come home and play over the summer.

What about the financial quality of the league? If I buy tickets to a game here in Saskatoon, will the team I expect to see show up or will I see 10 guys that play Campus Rec at the U of S being the visitors? Should I expect to see an entire season completed or will teams fall left and right as they do in the ABA? Don't get me wrong I'm excited about a team in Saskatoon, but just don't want to get over-excited and then a league like the ABA shows up.

[storm]

Well an AHL team wouldn't be in Saskatoon for at least another 3 years as the Blades still have exclusive of being the only hockey team at the arena and I know they are trying to bring a Northern League Baseball Team for the 2008 seaon as I wonder how many fans the IBL team will attract.

[storm]

Well the IBL have never cancelled a game as all teams have finished the season and I have a friend who works for the Sled Dawgz and also heard the owner on the radio on Friday saying how they are trying to get top notch Canadian players for both there teams as they have already been in talks with Jerome Bucknor, Steve Sir, JR Patrick, Pasha Bains and Rowan Barrett just to name a few Canadians and I know the owner will be trying to sign Sun Ming Ming and the JYD Jerome Williams for his teams next year. I think Saskatoon and Edmonton are in for some good basketball

[Shootmaster_44]

Here it is -- the Great White North Basketball League (No April Fools joke, just the way it should be. I borrowed some of the structure from shootmaster 44)
Eastern Conference
Maretime Division
Halifax Rainmen
St. John's Fishermen
Price Edwards Island Green Gablers
Sydney Clippers
Saint John (NB) Saints
Saint-Pierre Fighting Basque
St. Lawrence Division
Montreal Royal
Quebec Kebekwa
Mississauga Red Wolves
Ottawa Capitals
Hamilton Harriers
London Bridges
Western Conference
Prairie Division
Thunder Bay Terror
Winnepeg Northern Lakers
Saskatoon North Stars
Regina Rockets
Portage la Prairie Polar Bears
Yellowknife Arctic Miners
Mountain Pacific Division
Edmonton Sled Dogz
Vancouver Dragons
Lethbridge Canadians
Calgary Captains
Victoria Islanders
Deadhorse Gamblers

32 game season, 16 home, 16 away. In division -- 4 games = 20 (2 home, 2 away), out of division 2 games = 12 (1 home, 1 away). No cross conference play until playoff finals.

13 week season (3 games for 1st 6 weeks, 2 games for next 7 weeks)
Playoffs -- Division winners + next two teams per conference. All series best of three (game one at lower seed, games two and three at higher seed).
12 player roster + 2 practice players (full roster players $1,200 a week. practice players $500 a week. That's a team salary cap of $202,000 a season or roughly $175,325 US, 131,314 euros for Saint-Pierre).
Each team allowed four U.S. players and no more than two internationals. (reserve roster counts against these totals). The rest must be Canadian (exception: Saint-Pierre is allowed four U.S. players, two internationals and the remaining players may be any combination of French nationals or Canadians).
Trade deadline -- end of week 8. All players traded after week 8 must clear waivers.

If you average 3,000 fans a game at $10 average ticket price, you'll get an income of $480,000, so I realize you're cutting it pretty close. My guess is if a team could get about $200,000 to $300,000 in sponsorships and advertising, you'd be getting close to break even or making a small profit (since the population of Saint-Pierre is just 6,000, that means half the residents would have to show up for each home game, but since tourism is it's biggest industry behind fishing, it just might work. Then again, the French love subsidising everything, so maybe you could get the government to invest.).

Ownership requirements:
$4 million CDN net worth
$1.5 million CDN liquid
Performance bond equal to 1 year's total payroll (staff and players) plus travel expenses.
Home gym capacity of 3,500.
Court to FIBA standards.

Game rules: (Hybred of US and international rules).
NBA rules with following exception: FIBA 3-point line and court marked to FIBA rules (that means the funny (to US fans at least) flaired lane.

Interesting concept, except some of your cities are not a great idea. In fact I'm not even sure where Deadhorse is, unless you meant Whitehorse. I'd say cut out St. Pierre and Miquelon, Sydney, Portage La Prairie, Yellowknife and Whitehorse, then you'd have quality cities. Though as the ABA has proven, you don't want to go too big too fast. I figure you start small and slowly expand as the league takes off.

The financial qualifications are great though, if perhaps low for what I'd expect. My idea is that you need at least double the expenses in liquid and I'm guessing a team in a league this size would easily run over the 1.5 million you need for a team. The only way I could see costs kept low is if it was a bus league, but for a bus league to work you need lots of teams in a very small area. A Southern Ontario bus league could work, but not one in Western Canada.

All in all, I'd say the best ideas for Canadian teams are to join existing leagues that are geographically near their cities. If the PBL takes off then there's an Eastern league for the ABA teams to join, the IBL and CBA are accessable in Western Canada. The only place that is somewhat of an island all on its own is Vancouver. The rest of the CBA is a long way from Vancouver, I realize the IBL is a step down (I would think) from the CBA, it makes more sense geographically for them.

On a side note, I wonder what the sudden attraction to Saskatoon is? If the previous post is right, in the next couple years Saskatoon could be home to 4 professional sports teams (CMISL, IBL, Northern League, AHL), plus the Blades and the U of S Huskies. I've also heard rumors of indoor or arena football popping up (and no I don't have details of anything other than that faint whisper). The Credit Union Centre is going to be booked solid with 10 Accelerators games, 31 Blades games and 40 AHL games in the winter and I would guess 9 or 10 indoor football games, 10-12 IBL games and 10 RMLL games in the spring/summer, plus all the concerts, monster truck rallys and other events every year.

[Shootmaster_44]

Well an AHL team wouldn't be in Saskatoon for at least another 3 years as the Blades still have exclusive of being the only hockey team at the arena and I know they are trying to bring a Northern League Baseball Team for the 2008 seaon as I wonder how many fans the IBL team will attract.

No, the AHL can play in Saskatoon. The Blades lease is an exclusive deal for anything considered their level or lower (A level hockey for instance). I recall the many times the IHL and AHL have been mentioned as a team in Saskatoon, the Blades lease could not bar them from Credit Union Centre as they were considered higher level than the Blades. I think only the AHL and NHL can void that exclusivity clause.

If the IBL team promotes itself well I would guess it would average between 3-4,000. That is what the Saskatchewan Storm of the WBL and Saskatoon Slam of the NBL averaged. In fact for the NBL Finals in 1993, I believe each game had around 10,000 fans in attendence (including me and my dad).

As for the Northern League, that's an entirely different question. The Riot/Smokin' Guns/Stallions of the mid-90's drew around 1,500 to their games. Conversely, the Legends of the Canadian League averaged around 500-800 and the Yellow Jackets of the WMBL are lucky to get 100 fans in attendance (of which my buddy and I were the only ones who didn't know anyone playing). In this city, it all comes down to marketing. If the team markets itself well and gets its games broadcast on the radio, it can do well. The recent Vanier Cup (CIS Football's equivalent of the BCS Title Game) drew 13,000 people (and would've drawn more if the seating was there) in -25 celsius temperatures.

If you promote the hell out of the team, people will come out. The only slight problem with the IBL being a summer league is that it doesn't have a minor basketball league to cross-promote with. The SMBA plays a winter season, which would be over by the time the IBL starts up. But other than that if its promoted well, especially to families I can't see the games drawing poorly.

[storm]

Well I know the season will start in mid March to mid June as the team will play 12 home games as the IBL could beat any CBA team I think as from what I see of the marketing and promotions the Edmonton team has done is great as they have there version of American Idol which is Dance Team Idle on a local radio station as that's how they will be looking for there dance team here in Edmonton as they are planning on a lot of marketing and are planning the same in Saskatoon. One of the local media outfits describes the owner as the Mark Cuban of the IBL as from listening to him on the radio I can see why he is very outgoing and speaks his mind.

[Shootmaster_44]

Well I know the season will start in mid March to mid June as the team will play 12 home games as the IBL could beat any CBA team I think as from what I see of the marketing and promotions the Edmonton team has done is great as they have there version of American Idol which is Dance Team Idle on a local radio station as that's how they will be looking for there dance team here in Edmonton as they are planning on a lot of marketing and are planning the same in Saskatoon. One of the local media outfits describes the owner as the Mark Cuban of the IBL as from listening to him on the radio I can see why he is very outgoing and speaks his mind.

Cool. This is great news, hopefully it all pans out. I miss having pro basketball in this city, especially in the summer.

[nksports]

Deadhorse

Yes. Whitehorse, YT. Sorry about that. Please forgive me Canada. I've got a head cold and I'm sleep deprived.

Saint-Pierre hit me because it is a rather exotic place (to those who don't know, it's a town on a small island south of Labrador. It's the sole French territory remaining in North America.) It's kind of like when Traverse City, Mich., got minor league baseball. They were selling it as much to the tourists as to the locals.

[Shootmaster_44]

Yes. Whitehorse, YT. Sorry about that. Please forgive me Canada. I've got a head cold and I'm sleep deprived.

Saint-Pierre hit me because it is a rather exotic place (to those who don't know, it's a town on a small island south of Labrador. It's the sole French territory remaining in North America.) It's kind of like when Traverse City, Mich., got minor league baseball. They were selling it as much to the tourists as to the locals.

Traverse City, Michigan is a tourist place? I never knew that. I've often wondered whether St. Pierre and Miquelon is a tourist place or not. I know I've often thought I'd like to spend a day there sometime if I'm ever in Newfoundland.

[jamesaba]

Well I know the season will start in mid March to mid June as the team will play 12 home games as the IBL could beat any CBA team I think as from what I see of the marketing and promotions the Edmonton team has done is great as they have there version of American Idol which is Dance Team Idle on a local radio station as that's how they will be looking for there dance team here in Edmonton as they are planning on a lot of marketing and are planning the same in Saskatoon. One of the local media outfits describes the owner as the Mark Cuban of the IBL as from listening to him on the radio I can see why he is very outgoing and speaks his mind.

You mean an All-Star team from the IBL could beat any CBA team??

[Pounder]

Summer league? If you want to talk about drawing tourists...

...you want Kelowna BC. Trust me.

Heck, towns like Nanaimo BC, without Major Junior hockey, or even Western Lacrosse Association teams, might be the inviting target. You've completely undersold BC basketball, and I'm guessing that this is because the Grizzlies failed to hold in Vancouver. That's a mistake.

[Shootmaster_44]

Well it looks like Storm is on the money. I received a reply to my email to Troy Burns and he confirms he is bringing an IBL team to Saskatoon. He did not confirm or deny the AHL or Northern League teams though.

[Shootmaster_44]

Summer league? If you want to talk about drawing tourists...

...you want Kelowna BC. Trust me.

Heck, towns like Nanaimo BC, without Major Junior hockey, or even Western Lacrosse Association teams, might be the inviting target. You've completely undersold BC basketball, and I'm guessing that this is because the Grizzlies failed to hold in Vancouver. That's a mistake.

I've often thought the Okanagan would be a good place for a minor pro team of any sport. On the island, you run into the problem of travel costs, which make it largely prohibitive to run a team there easily. Seems to me that was the major complaint other teams had with the old WHL Victoria Cougars. I wonder if Nanaimo would support minor league basketball though. The only other major sports team they had was the Islanders in the WHL in the 70's I believe, which died. So its a hard market to judge from afar anyways.

[LASportsFan]

Guys, I'm not trying to be negative, but this thread has nothing to to with the ABA. You should move it to a general thread under "Men's Basketball" and leave threads in this sub-group solely focued on the ABA.

[rams80]

I'd be more than happy to see them play here in Saskatoon. Though I think it would kill the Blades if they did.

Given Major Junior vs. AHL history up in Canada, I think it'd more likely be the other way around.

[Pounder]

Guys, I'm not trying to be negative, but this thread has nothing to to with the ABA. You should move it to a general thread under "Men's Basketball" and leave threads in this sub-group solely focued on the ABA.

If ever there was a board that deserved a tangent, this is it.

[Shootmaster_44]

I kinda thought this thread should be put in the IBL forum. However, the only one who can move the thread is Paul, so until he weighs in its probably better to keep all replies to this topic in one thread.

Besides this sorta relates to the ABA, as Joe Newman had mentioned at one point about targeting major expansion into Canada (an I'm not talking about the thread yesterday) and now Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon and likely Winnipeg are gone from his potential markets. As I doubt anyone would bring winter ball to compete with hockey and a spring ball team in these cities. Basically, unless Joe expands to Regina, there are no major cities in Western Canada for an ABA team. Thank goodness!

[Shootmaster_44]

Given Major Junior vs. AHL history up in Canada, I think it'd more likely be the other way around.

Oh that's probably true in most markets. But I think the second a pro hockey team moves to Saskatoon, likely 50% of the Blades fan base would abandon amateur hockey for "pro" hockey, even if the CHL has generally more skilled players than the AHL.

[CJPhillips]

Q & A with Edmonton Sled Dawgz

To see rest of Q & A story go to www.frozenhoops.com

Q: Why did you choose the International Basketball League to place a team(s) in?

A- When looking to join a league we wanted to be involved with a league that had a good business plan and after doing our research we decided that the IBL would be the best fit.

Q: Why not the Continental Basketball Association (CBA) which would have close by teams from Butte, Spokane, Great Falls and possibly Vancouver B.C. (Dragons) and Lethbridge (Canadians)?

A- Well the CBA is a great league with great history and for the CBA possibly having teams in Vancouver and Lethbridge I know for a fact that Vancouver is not getting a team as the team is suppose to be playing in Kent, Washington. The IBL's benefits are affordable ownership with an efficient schedule and exciting basketball (127 ppg, plus rapidly improving talent across the league)

Q: The history of semi-pro hoops in Alberta is 0-and-5 – Alberta Dusters, Edmonton Skyhawks, Calgary 88s, Calgary Drillers Calgary Outlaws – what makes you think Edmonton may succeed? What will you do different?

A- Past failures do not mean that basketball will never succeed in Alberta. The IBL is designed to promote longevity (this is absolutely true) again, our focus as a team and a league is to offer the owners the most affordable schedule possible. Ultimately, because you're playing in the IBL you can guarantee your fans and sponsors that you will make it through the season, and all your opponents will show up unlike the ABA. This might not have been the case with other Alberta teams in the past.

Q: Did you ever think of joining the ABA which already has the Montreal and Quebec and next year Halifax and Mississauga with possibly Ottawa also?

A: Yes we looked at the ABA and talking to a few of the owners in the league which have since pulled there teams out of the league it's not a stable league as teams haven't shown up for games teams folding 15 in 2 months as they have no business plan. The IBL on the other side have a sound business plan and I wanted to be in a league where the fans would be able to enjoy the best basketball.

Q: What will be the salary cap and salary range of players? Per game? For season?

A: We have no salary cap as most salaries for players are modest as we are a developmental league. Most players are interested in the exposure, and the opportunity to catch the eye of an NBA scout.

Q: Who will be owning the team(s) in Calgary and Saskatoon?

A- The Calgary team will be owned by a few local investors and for Saskatoon, Sports Management Group will own that team as they also own the Edmonton team.

Q: From last year the IBL appears to have lost 9 teams but added 7 does this sort of stability or lack of worry you or is normal in semi pro sports?

A: No, turnover is not ideal, but it is to be expected. The 15 returning teams are in good to great shape financially. the IBL is, after two years modestly successful seasons, in a position to be much more selective regarding new owners..The seven new teams, highlighted by Everett, Phoenix and Santa Barbara, are all solid additions to the league. Everett has already sold over 1,000 season tickets. Phoenix and Santa Barbara are both being received enthusiastically in there communities. Also these teams are going to be very good on the court.

Q Will you have a website and if so what is it under? Will you be broadcasting games on Edmonton radio or for example television on Shaw?

A- Yes we will have a website up and going in a week or so as it will be www.sleddawgz.com. We will also be broadcasting are games on the radio as we have interest from a few radio stations and will hopefully have a few games on TV.

[panchess]

..though the IBL is pretty much a semi-pro league. Sustainable, yes. Comparable to the CBA and USBL, no.

Interesting note that this owner says "for a fact" the Vancouver CBA team will be in Kent, WA, and that the Lethbridge team is still on the table.

Kent might work just fine for the CBA, particularly if the Sonics clear out for OKC.

[Shootmaster_44]

..though the IBL is pretty much a semi-pro league. Sustainable, yes. Comparable to the CBA and USBL, no.

Interesting note that this owner says "for a fact" the Vancouver CBA team will be in Kent, WA, and that the Lethbridge team is still on the table.

Kent might work just fine for the CBA, particularly if the Sonics clear out for OKC.

Ok compared to the teams Saskatoon has had in the WBL/NBL/CBA, how does the IBL compare?

[TEN]

Don't know about the NBL....big step down from the WBL and the CBA...

IBL is where players that can't find a spot in the USBL can go to and play....

They do seem to have a pretty good business plan, but I know from talking to coaches last year that there were problems behind the scenes that I never heard about on this board...

[Shootmaster_44]

Don't know about the NBL....big step down from the WBL and the CBA...

IBL is where players that can't find a spot in the USBL can go to and play....

They do seem to have a pretty good business plan, but I know from talking to coaches last year that there were problems behind the scenes that I never heard about on this board...

Oh ok. The NBL and WBL were essentially the same league in the end. The only difference is the NBL removed the height restriction, so the teams were a little slower as they added larger players.

Even if it is lower caliber than the WBL and CBA, that's ok so long as its entertaining. High school basketball is definitely not CBA quality and yet its entertaining. So long as the games are enjoyable to watch and quality players are on the floor, I don't think this will be a bad thing for Saskatoon. Though I'm slightly disappointed that isn't as high caliber as I thought it was. If nothing else it gives Andrew Spagrud from the U of S, a place to play once his Huskie career is over.

Without following the league before and only a cursory look at the official league webpage, I can already spot one "problem." It appears every team plays a different amount of games in the IBL, why is that? Shouldn't each team play the same amount of games? The league claims of the 249 scheduled games last year all 249 were played, so this isn't an ABA type scheduling problem with teams dropping out left and right and no showing. So what's the deal with the schedule?

[TEN]

You would think that if they played 249 scheduled games...somebody had an odd number....Why would a pro league's schedule have an odd number of games?

[Shootmaster_44]

You would think that if they played 249 scheduled games...somebody had an odd number....Why would a pro league's schedule have an odd number of games?

That's a good point. Makes me think that this league, while it may be well run is also a little unorganized or at the very least allows teams to squeeze in whatever extra games they want.

[baller]

I have to say I look at some of these posts and as a ex player who has played in the CBA, IBL and overseas the level of play is almost the same in all minor leagues except for maybe the D-League as people forget that the IBL gets alot of players from the CBA and overseas as the IBL is a spring league and they will have a balanced schedule of 24 games next year for all teams. The players that are 8 to 12 on most IBL teams are Division 2 and 3 players but the one's from 1 to 7 are Division 1 players as some of the stronger teams in the IBL could beat any CBA or USBL team as there are players such as Sean Higgins, Anthony Miller, Cedric Ceballos, God Shammgood, Erick Barkley, Jermaine Slider, Larry Morinia, Donald Watts, Shantay Legans, Eric Fiegi and Carson Sofro that have played in the NBA or the D-League just to name a few. They also have players like Michael Lee, Kansas, David Lucas a 2 time all pac-10 player, Shun Jenkins, Ohio State, Aaron Turner, Xavier, Darnetreis Kilgore, Purdue,Harold Swanagan, Norte Dame, Justus Thigpen, Iowa State a 2 time All Big Eight Player who has also played in the top leagues in Argentina, Spain and Russia as well has played in the CBA. Other guys who have palyed in the top leagues in Europe and South America are Henry Colter and Coleco Buie. So for people who say the IBL is a big step down give your heads a shake as they don't know what there talking about as you have alot of the same guys that play in the winter minor basketball leagues that play in the IBL spring league. I have heard that some former big name players could join the IBL in the near future as Phoenis is trying to get Penny Hardaway and Dan Majerle to play for them and I also have heard that the Canadian teams will be going after some big names as one name I have heard is Jerome JYD Williams. Instead of certain people on these forums trying to say this league is better than that it's all at a level playing field as I have been there and have played there really isn't a difference it's all good ball.

[Shootmaster_44]

I have to say I look at some of these posts and as a ex player who has played in the CBA, IBL and overseas the level of play is almost the same in all minor leagues except for maybe the D-League as people forget that the IBL gets alot of players from the CBA and overseas as the IBL is a spring league and they will have a balanced schedule of 24 games next year for all teams. The players that are 8 to 12 on most IBL teams are Division 2 and 3 players but the one's from 1 to 7 are Division 1 players as some of the stronger teams in the IBL could beat any CBA or USBL team as there are players such as Sean Higgins, Anthony Miller, Cedric Ceballos, God Shammgood, Erick Barkley, Jermaine Slider, Larry Morinia, Donald Watts, Shantay Legans, Eric Fiegi and Carson Sofro that have played in the NBA or the D-League just to name a few. They also have players like Michael Lee, Kansas, David Lucas a 2 time all pac-10 player, Shun Jenkins, Ohio State, Aaron Turner, Xavier, Darnetreis Kilgore, Purdue,Harold Swanagan, Norte Dame, Justus Thigpen, Iowa State a 2 time All Big Eight Player who has also played in the top leagues in Argentina, Spain and Russia as well has played in the CBA. Other guys who have palyed in the top leagues in Europe and South America are Henry Colter and Coleco Buie. So for people who say the IBL is a big step down give your heads a shake as they don't know what there talking about as you have alot of the same guys that play in the winter minor basketball leagues that play in the IBL spring league. I have heard that some former big name players could join the IBL in the near future as Phoenis is trying to get Penny Hardaway and Dan Majerle to play for them and I also have heard that the Canadian teams will be going after some big names as one name I have heard is Jerome JYD Williams. Instead of certain people on these forums trying to say this league is better than that it's all at a level playing field as I have been there and have played there really isn't a difference it's all good ball.

My only concern about the level of play was how that might affect the box office in Saskatoon. What I'm thinking is a baseball example, I've attended games of the various baseball franchises who have played in Saskatoon (as well as the other pro sports leagues who have drifted into town) and the difference between the NCL/Prairie League, the Canadian League and the Western Major League are night and day. Most notably between the WMBL and the NCL/Prairie League. The reason the WMBL's Yellow Jackets draw friends, family and me to their games is that the play is barely at the Gulf Coast League level. So people come out expecting the Legends or the Riot and see an inferior product and never come back. I'm afraid that people might go to the IBL and see it isn't the level of the WBL/NBL or the IBA/CBA and never come back.

If the leagues have as much parity as you claim they do, this won't be a problem. However, if the IBL does not play at Credit Union Centre and instead plays at the PAC at the U of S, they very stigma of not playing at the major arena will ruin the team's credibility in a very fickle pro sports market. Either way, I'll be at the games cheering on whatever they call the Saskatoon team (which I hope does not have cute spellings like the Sled Dawgz or hip-hop lingo like the Krunk).

[panchess]

..the IBL business plan emphasizes things like not paying players more than $100 per game, and operating as cheaply as possible. It's actually a well-written plan that can be effective, but it doesn't place a premium on quality players. The changes from NBA rules seem more like gimmicks (22 second clock? why?), but it does increase scoring.

Barkley's a good player. I thought he left the Indiana AlleyCats to go overseas, but evidently it didn't work out, and he's in the IBL.

Higgins walked out on the Patroons midway through the CBA season. You wonder what he has left in the tank. Same with Ceballos, who has to be 45 or so by now. Coleco Blue was a bomb with the Pittsburgh Xplosion this past season, the kind of player at this point who can function in the ABA, but not in a higher-quality league.

Regarding the IBL claim that no games were cancelled, the business plan calls for a 20-game season. The range last year was from 13 to 25 games. The team with the worst record (along with Elkhart) played 25 games, so it couldn't have included playoff games.

[storm]

The team will be playing at the Credit Union Center as it will be announced this week in Saskatoon as a press release will be made. I agree with Baller as the talent is good in the IBL as I have been to a CBA and IBL game as the talent is almost the same but the IBL is alot faster and more exciting. I know the owner of the Saskatoon and Edmonton team is also a sports agent and does represent alot of guys in the CBA and IBL and he told me that the players are getting good money in most cases as he said some players are making a 100 a game but others are making more depending on the team as like Baller said you have the same players that play in the CBA that go over to the IBL and if you listen to IBL commish on the radio which he says they could compete with any minor league team as I know the ownership group for the Saskatoon and Edmonton team stated on the radio if any other minor league team wants a game lets do it. I mean lets get behind these teams as I have just listened to a radio ad for the Dawgz and it is great as they have Steve Nash on there ad as there our other big names that will be doing commercials for the teams promos as the ownership group have alot of connections as they will market it in both cities as I would say the top minor leagues for basketball are the D-league and CBA at the top and then IBL and USBL and then have the WBA and the ABA as in most cases the last 4 are all but the same level as the CBA players also get paid a few hundred dollars a game as well remember this is minor league ball the wages are not the best no matter what league it is everyone has there favorite league and thats just the way it is as some will say good things and others will say not so nice things.

[Shootmaster_44]

The team will be playing at the Credit Union Center as it will be announced this week in Saskatoon as a press release will be made.

That's a good start then. I still wish the majority of these teams would move out of high schools. Seeing high schools and middle schools listed as venues for some reason makes me think ABA. The last thing the IBL, or any league for that matter, should do is try to emulate the ABA. For that matter some teams need to nail down a single home venue and play an even home and away schedule. I've never overly been a fan of road-only teams and Las Vegas is pretty close. They only have two home games. But I guess only time can tell what comes of the IBL here in Saskatoon. Plus any league that doesn't have Joe Newman at the helm is alright by me. (Not that I wouldn't support an ABA team in Saskatoon, just wouldn't put a lot of stock in the games and correct teams playing.)

[storm]

Well teams like Everett,Battle Creek,Elgin,Holland,Phoenix,Tacoma,Portland all play at arenas or civic centers with Tri-Valley, Seattle,Elkhart and Colorado playing at university gyms as remember the universities in the US are way better than any ones here in Canada as there are only 5 that play out of high school gyms as Saskatoon will be playing at the Credit Union Center and Edmonton will be playing at the U. of Alberta or Macwean until the renovations are done at the Northlands Agricome which will seat 5,000 for the 2009 season