lopsided scores...again

[ChampionOfSteel]

Looking soley at the final scores again this year, what does this mean? Talent parity missing? The 7 on 7 game system in the CIFL makes it too easy for one team with a slight advantage to blow the other out? Get rid of guys going in forward motion on offense?

Back to the drawing board for the 7-on-7 game system and rules?

There's no shame in changing the rules and game system after the season has already started. The NFL did it when Seattle faked injuries when Cincinnati did the no huddle offense to prevent the defense from substituting.

What is the problem here and not the symptoms of the problem to be addressed? We want to fix the problem and not the symptom of lopsided scores.

Ideas from the rest of you?

[Eric Spitaleri]

I think the action in week 2 was great. I was on hand at the game in Marion tht finished 37-35, when the QB got stopped on the 1 yard line as time expired. As far as the Silverbacks only scoring 7 and the Surge losing by 37, that stuff happens, read the articles on the games. The coach for the Silverbacks said they made alot of turnovers that led to Port Huron blowing the game open. Instead of trying to critize the league after 1 real week, give it time to see if the new teams in the league can adjust and get better.

[preeths]

Remember, CoS, there are a lot of new teams in the league, too, and that can lead to some disparity, especially in the early going. Let's see where the scoring differential is in week four or five before condemning the game system. Eric makes a good point in that same system produced a 37-35 thriller.

[ChampionOfSteel]

Fair enough. =)

I want the CIFL to be as good as if not better than the NIFL/UIF game system.

Thanks Eric, for your prompt response.

[Dogs-Glads-Xtreme]

Eric, any comments on the Revolution losing by 67?

[Sykotyk]

The Revs O-line could not stop Carlos Spinner (6'11 290lb). He bullrushed his lone blocker all night, and when doubleteamed, he still was in the backfield. He played one hell of a game and the Revs offense was nothing more than a QB running for his life almost every play. Their line, both O and D were winded by the late second quarter and by then the route was on. Their DBs couldn't keep step with the Stampede receivers (who were fast, but certainly not the fastest in the league). QB Maiuri played a great game, had zero mistakes, and was able to just overthrow the coverage almost every possession for a TD or pick apart a very weak underneath defense.

Sykotyk

[exit322]

The game system is not the source of such lopsided scores. The system is the reason scores get lower at times, because it is a *defensive* game. The lopsided scores (and remember, I watched a heck of a lot of games last year in the 7-on-7 league) are solely due to disparate teams.

You put that NY/NJ roster in the UIF, and they're going to be down 70-3 at halftime...the UIF system is a bit more offensive, and NY/NJ doesn't have any sort of DB to stop anything. The only teams they'd have a shot against are the traveling replacement teams the NIFL will shove out there, and I can't guarantee they'd win all of those.

[cRUSHer]

AS of this post the CIFL has played 13 games.

Heres how the scoring differential breaksdown
at a quick glance

games won...
by 3 points or less.....................1 35-37
by up to 7 points ......................1 30-37
from 8 up to 20 points ...............1 25-45
by 21 to 30 points ....................4 47-19 , 20-48 , 66-44 , 42-21 :roll:
from 31 to 50 points...................5 42-6 , 13-60 , 40-77 , 7-54,62-30 :lol:
by over 50 points(67) ................1 70-3 :eek:

(corrections welcome)

10 out of 13 games were blowouts of 3 TDs or more.:oops:
Hopefully that will level out .

[Minor League Man]

AS of this post the CIFL has played 13 games.

Heres how the scoring differential breaksdown
at a quick glance

games won...
by 3 points or less.....................1 35-37
by up to 7 points ......................1 30-37
from 8 up to 20 points ...............1 25-45
by 21 to 30 points ....................4 47-19 , 20-48 , 66-44 , 42-21 :roll:
from 31 to 50 points...................5 42-6 , 13-60 , 40-77 , 7-54,62-30 :lol:
by over 50 points(67) ................1 70-3 :eek:

(corrections welcome)

10 out of 13 games were blowouts of 3 TDs or more.:oops:
Hopefully that will level out .
Wow.

BTW, did you get your sig playing Mad Libs?

[cRUSHer]

It just came to me in yet another moment of brilliance.:D

[cRUSHer]

Updated to include 4/13 , 4/14

20 games
games won...
by 3 points or less.....................2 35-37 ,48-51
by up to 7 points ......................1 30-37
from 8 up to 20 points ...............3 25-45 ,55-65 ,21-34
by 21 to 30 points ....................4 47-19 , 20-48 ,66-44 ,42-21 :roll:
from 31 to 50 points...................9 42-6 ,13-60 ,40-77 ,
7-54,62-30 ,63-25 , 6-61,54-6,54-12 :confused:
by over 50 points(67) ................1 70-3 :eek:

(corrections welcome)

It's the teams scoring single digits that really freaks me out.

[exit322]

The scoring system allows any combination here to be an ugly ugly game:

Good to great defense + bad to abysmal offense.

Summit County and NY/NJ both are jokes. Springfield will turn itself around, but Port Huron has an amazing defense. A team with amazing defenders is really pronounced with the rule set, and it will take one heck of an offense to make any noise against them.

So, Lou, it's a combination of the two factors...the rules allow better teams to give a smack down, as defenses aren't restrained so much (though the af2 even had a shutout last night...that says how bad the Copperheads offense is).

[cRUSHer]

well if thats all you got ... then that's all you got.
Even an outhouse beats pooping on the ground.

I have the AFL and United Indoor Football.
both within reach and I take full and complete
advantage of it by going to games.

There is a CIFL team 40 miles from here too
but I just keep seeing 70-3 ,61-6 ,54-6, 54-7 ,42-6....
nahhhhhhhhhhhhhh......no thanks...not for me.

[exit322]

Then have fun going to Allstate Arena, Rockford, and Quad City (I realize they're a good half-step up from UIF, but you get the idea). I couldn't care less what you do with your money, while you keep trying to attack me as if I did.

The UIF is a more solid league at this stage than the CIFL. I've said that a couplea times, but you seem to not be able to read coherent arguments. Does the CIFL still have a shot to improve itself? Absolutely. Do I think they will take advantage of that shot? That's for another time and place.

I don't like the constant blowouts. The UIF even proved that they do happen, with Omaha getting pantsed at home 61-17. But the CIFL has made a habit of it last year and this. Summit County and NY/NJ both stink, and they're a disgrace to the rest of the league. The Slaughter should have good games against anyone but those two or Port Huron (who is good enough to win any indoor league, though the UIF would be toughest).

Port Huron even had a newspaper article today that basically said "fan support is low because the team is too good." They're a 12-3 or better team in the UIF as well, but at least they'd have real competition. I don't know that anyone else in the CIFL is even close right now.

[cRUSHer]

Then have fun going to Allstate Arena, Rockford, and Quad City (I realize they're a good half-step up from UIF, but you get the idea). I couldn't care less what you do with your money, while you keep trying to attack me as if I did.

no one here is trying to attack you, big boy .
I'm sorry about your misunderstandings .
They appear to be paranoid delusions to me
as they have no basis in fact.
So I'll say it again. No one here is trying attack you ,
That's an old malepig tactic.Start off by accusing
someone of making an attack they did not make.
Seems the master taught you well.

I held af2 Quad City $teamwheeler tickets for 3 yrs.
They are NOT a good half step up from anything I have seen. Period.
So I stopped going. I also used to attend Peoria Pirates games.
I do know about the af2. I'm a charter member of the af2 poll
and the ONLY one that doesn't live in an af2 town.

What af2 team did you ever attend regularly again ?
Something tells me ... none.

The UIF is a more solid league at this stage than the CIFL. I've said that a couplea times, but you seem to not be able to read coherent arguments.

That's a personal attack against my ability
to comprehend and therefore my intelligence.

Stating the obvious is NOT an argument ... it's merely
stating the obvious , so much for coherency ...
Please point out the argument as well , as I don't see it..

I'm just here posting facts and stats & not much opinion
reread the thread


Does the CIFL still have a shot to improve itself? Absolutely. Do I think they will take advantage of that shot? That's for another time and place.

This is EXACTLY why I try to protect the CIFL and keep
them in a category by themselves. They need time to develop
their game system and being lumped in with everyone else who
is playing a version of IPFL football isn't right till they get it right.

I don't like the constant blowouts. The UIF even proved that they do happen, with Omaha getting pantsed at home 61-17. But the CIFL has made a habit of it last year and this. Summit County and NY/NJ both stink, and they're a disgrace to the rest of the league. The Slaughter should have good games against anyone but those two or Port Huron (who is good enough to win any indoor league, though the UIF would be toughest).

Port Huron even had a newspaper article today that basically said "fan support is low because the team is too good."
as if.....thats funny ... it really , truly is:D

They're a 12-3 or better team in the UIF as well, but at least they'd have real competition. I don't know that anyone else in the CIFL is even close right now.

Well maybe it's about time more fans express dipleasure in
the inadequacies of the CIFL status quo.

Never said they weren't on to something.
That something just needs more time to flower.

[KevinJKeller]

Not going to argue that we do have some things to fix and I would like to see some of the games closer, but our fans continue to enjoy every second of the games.

There's a select few of you who come on here and our league message board and constantly talk about this. But you are exactly what I said, the FEW.

For every one of you that complains about this issue, we have 1,000 more who say they love going to the games.

Are there blowouts, yes. Will there always be blowouts, yes. Is it driving our fans away, NO.

Football purists don't keep teams afloat, fans do. And until more fans start talking like you select FEW do, we don't really have a problem.

[gonzo13]

Not going to argue that we do have some things to fix and I would like to see some of the games closer, but our fans continue to enjoy every second of the games.

There's a select few of you who come on here and our league message board and constantly talk about this. But you are exactly what I said, the FEW.

For every one of you that complains about this issue, we have 1,000 more who say they love going to the games.

Are there blowouts, yes. Is there always going to be blowouts, yes. Is it driving our fans away, NO.

Football purists don't keep teams afloat, fans do. And until more fans start talking like you select FEW do, we don't really have a problem.


No problem at all, except your attitude and your subject verb agreement in line four.

[exit322]

And the dwindling attendances in a number of CIFL cities.

Steubenville eyeball figures averaging 1200 (at most) per game - down from last year's close-to-1500 butts-in-seats average (they went 1-13!)

Springfield reported at around 600 fans at their most recent game.

Pirates attendance falling because there's no competition for 'em.

I guess the fans aren't saying much else beyond "we've got other things to do" on Friday and Saturday nights.

Will be interesting to see how Summit County, NY/NJ, and Hoffman Estates debut. Something tells me the silence in those cities will be deafening with "praise," too.

As Lou Lou and I have agreed...blowouts at times happen. It's the 75% of games being beat downs that becomes a problem.

[Shootmaster_44]

well if thats all you got ... then that's all you got.
Even an outhouse beats pooping on the ground.

I have the AFL and United Indoor Football.
both within reach and I take full and complete
advantage of it by going to games.

There is a CIFL team 40 miles from here too
but I just keep seeing 70-3 ,61-6 ,54-6, 54-7 ,42-6....
nahhhhhhhhhhhhhh......no thanks...not for me.

Depends if the CIFL team near you is the team scoring 70 or 3 points. I love a blow out by my team. I don't have any arena football near me, but in Canadian University football, I love see my Huskies kill someone 70-3. Its fun to see everyone on the offense score and to see 500 yards in offense. If you're the team that scores 3 then I can see why you avoid it.

[exit322]

In general, most fans don't like to see blowouts. Especially in a situation where it may be 70-3, but the team with 70 coulda put triple digits on the board.

And against NY/NJ or SC, a number of teams probably will be able to.

[cRUSHer]

In general, most fans don't like to see blowouts. Especially in a situation where it may be 70-3, but the team with 70 coulda put triple digits on the board.

Correctamundo .

Every couple of weeks or so , a blowout is to be expected.
In those cases it can be a lot of fun for the fans of the
team running up the score. in a no worries , relaxed ,
even giggly ,giddy kind of way.

But when I'm watching say MNF and the score is 31-3,
I find the remote a.s.a. & p. and it's clicksville in a hurry,daddy-o.

I wonder what the fans of CIFL football see as
the main factor of their stupifying rate of this
phenomenon of sports and can it be adjusted
without it looking too obvious (see Jack Linebacker :roll: ) ?

:idea: CIFL fans ??? ... Bueller ??? ... anyone ??? ... Joshua ???

[exit322]

I think better talent top-to-bottom would do it. If the UIF and its current teams played with the CIFL rules, I don't think blowouts would be much more common. A team with a bad C/QB tandem like Evansville these past couplea weeks would probably have been mauled even worse here.

Port Huron has no one challenging them, and only maybe AFL rules (Rochester has a pretty good QB in Matt Cottengim if they'd just play him...he did win the MVP award for a reason last year, and I expect him in a different uniform in 2008, if it takes that long) would someone really challenge them. Conversely, NY/NJ or Summit County would have a real good shot at giving up 100 to most any team using any other rule set.

[Sykotyk]

Hello from the Beehive State.

I personally don't find blowouts that intriguing. Yeah, it was fun watching the Revs get the snot kicked out of them, but after halftime with it 42-3, it was boring. The only real excitement was whether they'd hit 100 or not. And even then, that'd just reflect badly on both the two teams and the league.

AFL, UIF, AF2, CIFL, WIFL, IFL, AIFA, ..... APFL..... NIFL.

Sykotyk

[exit322]

Steubenville 89, Summit County 32...this is a great example of bad ownership. One of Davenport's teams can compete for the division, the other gets completely crapped on. Any other league, Stampede throw a c-note on the Rumble. Perfect example of talent disparity.

[KevinJKeller]

Hey, the bottom line on tonight's game between Steubenville and Summit County is that the Stampede are a BETTER team.

It doesn't have anything to do with the ownership. The offensive line in Summit County is bad, plain and simple. Until it gets better, Summit County isn't going to very good.

What do you want the ownership to do, send some of the Stampede players to Summit County to make them better. If that's what you think, you're out of your mind.

Summit County needs to find better players themselves, it's not the fault of Steubenville that they are bad.

[exit322]

Good ownership would make sure both teams are equally talented. And considering TOL/WC/SC had a couplea tryouts before Ramone bought the Stampede (and the Stamps had a whopping 9 players signed at that point, most of which aren't even with the team now)...it does look a little fishy.

Steubenville is the one team that has a shot to be around long-term. Obviously, someone isn't doing something right if Rochester, Lehigh Valley, Muskegon, and Kalamazoo all average as much as Steubenville has totalled in attendance before last night, but that's how it goes. And under current management, I don't see the Stampede being around for the duration. Things need to change.

It's good they have their patsies out of the way now so that fans don't have to start putting two and two together to find the semipro trick of stockpiling all the good players on one team, but it's still a little fishy.

Hey, the bottom line on tonight's game between Steubenville and Summit County is that the Stampede are a BETTER team.

It doesn't have anything to do with the ownership. The offensive line in Summit County is bad, plain and simple. Until it gets better, Summit County isn't going to very good.

What do you want the ownership to do, send some of the Stampede players to Summit County to make them better. If that's what you think, you're out of your mind.

Summit County needs to find better players themselves, it's not the fault of Steubenville that they are bad.

[Sykotyk]

I wasn't at the game, obviously, but my wife was. Said the crowd was horribly small, just a tad bigger than the second game (which we figured had 600-700 at... the first SS/SC game).

89-32,... I'm honestly surprised the Rumble scored that many, so they must've improved something. But, also, they doubled how many points they gave up.

It's very fishy, indeed. And rather obvious. If you say that the Rumble needed better coaches and players, yet the Stampede are doing things right, then obviously if he can make right with one team, he ought to have the smarts to duplicate that on the other.

Unless he's not trying to make the Rumble a good team.

Sykotyk

[exit322]

Or one is simply being forsaken (and they're getting nowhere fast in the Summit County area, one in which I live) to try and make one successful.

I wasn't at the game, obviously, but my wife was. Said the crowd was horribly small, just a tad bigger than the second game (which we figured had 600-700 at... the first SS/SC game).

89-32,... I'm honestly surprised the Rumble scored that many, so they must've improved something. But, also, they doubled how many points they gave up.

It's very fishy, indeed. And rather obvious. If you say that the Rumble needed better coaches and players, yet the Stampede are doing things right, then obviously if he can make right with one team, he ought to have the smarts to duplicate that on the other.

Unless he's not trying to make the Rumble a good team.

Sykotyk

[Fez]

I honestly don't see anything "fishy" here. SC needs linemen and needs them now. THey have separate coaches and mgmt, so its up to SC to get to work and get some pla¥ers. Now if ownership won't let SC sign players, then there IS a problem. But I haven't heard that.

[exit322]

I just don't know how Summit County could have had multiple tryouts before Steubenville was bought (and only had 9 guys on their roster at that point, all of which had to try out again) and are so much worse than their sister team.

[exit322]

Okay, I'll provide the update, through 4/21.

26 games
games won...
by 3 points or less.....................2 35-37 ,48-51
by up to 7 points ......................1 30-37
from 8 up to 20 points ...............5 25-45 ,55-65 ,21-34, 31-39, 29-46
by 21 to 30 points ....................4 47-19 , 20-48 ,66-44 ,42-21
from 31 to 50 points...................12 42-6 ,13-60 ,40-77 ,
7-54,62-30 ,63-25 , 6-61,54-6,54-12, 67-29, 47-13, 89-49
by over 50 points(67) ................2 70-3, 89-32

Average margin of victory: 31 points. Median margin of victory: 30 points (e.g. outliers both ways) That's not very good, and we're close to midseason now.

[creativelysain]

Well, it seems to me that the main factor is this:

1. When Port huron plays anyone, it will be a blowout. So that's one per week.

2. When Rochester plays anyone (not named Port huron), it most likely will be a blowout. That's 2 per week.

3. Anytime NY/NJ, Summit County, & most likely Springfield play, it will be a blowout. That's 3 more, so 5 per week.

That's almost half the games. The other 7 games can be very good if the other teams are playing each other (ie Chesapeake v Steubenville, Marion v Kalamazoo, Chicago v M Valley and so forth)

It's just when anyone plays the above teams, that's when the lopsided scores happen. You have a couple of great coaching staffs meshed with really talented teams, and then the bottom of the spectrum with just the opposite. That gap must be closed soon, because it is getting a bit predictable when the above teams play. Time will tell I suppose.

The one I really look forward to is the NY/NJ v Summit County game, should be great :-D and hopefully not a blowout.

[exit322]

There's an issue if games involving 4 of 14 teams will almost always be guaranteed to be a blowout. Either the league hasn't brought in strong enough organizations, or the rules are questionable.

And I don't think it's the rules.

[mvhcpa]

There's an issue if games involving 4 of 14 teams will almost always be guaranteed to be a blowout. Either the league hasn't brought in strong enough organizations, or the rules are questionable.

And I don't think it's the rules.

...some time ago when I started a thread asking if y'all thought the CIFL over-expanded. I think we came to the conclusion that the number of new teams was not the issue in and of itself, which is still probably valid.

However, I guess a larger number of new teams increases the chances for stinkers to come into the league--Do y'all think that is what happened here?

Michael Val
(who is just ASKING, not CONCLUDING)

[exit322]

QUALITY is always the issue.

If you bring in a dozen ownership groups as good as the people in Marion or the people in Sioux Falls, you didn't overexpand.

You bring in one Steubenville/Summit County guy, you did.

[KevinJKeller]

Josh, you know as well as anyone that, in most cases, the owners don't build these teams when it comes to players. That's why you hire a general manager or director of football operations.

Ramone is not the general manager of either of his teams. The coaches are the ones that find and recruit these players. If you want to say it's their fault, that's fine. But don't say the ownership is bad just because the team is bad.

Are the Browns bad every year because the ownership is bad, NO. They are bad because of poor coaching and poor decision making when it comes to player personnel. That's true in almost every case, although you always have exceptions to that.

Ramone is a good owner that has one good team and one bad team. It's up to his general manager/head coach to make the product on the field better.

Come on Josh, you know that's how it works.

[creativelysain]

I was going to reply with almost the same thing Kevin.

[exit322]

Browns argument doesn't work here. $300+200 incentives is a lot more than the $100 everyone's making on the Summit County or NY/NJ rosters. The better indoor players will play for the $500 team (re: Port Huron), or they'll play in a stronger league (re: UIF).

History has shown in this sport that poor ownership groups field poor teams and good ownership groups field good teams. Marion is proving to be almost the only exception in the game (UIF doesn't count; all their teams are successfully operated franchises, and every UIF team would be .500 or better in the CIFL without breaking a sweat). That said, I'd still be surprised if the Mayhem finish worse than 6-6; Kalamazoo is a very good team.

Good owners hire good football people to run their football teams. Bad owners hire anyone willing to work for free or less.

Steubenville regularly packs in 8000 or better for their high school football team. Why can't they pack a tenth of that for a very successful indoor team? Why couldn't they figure out Wooster was a waste of time when we all knew it was when I still worked with the CIFL? Why haven't I heard a peep about the Rumble despite me living in their namesake county?

I will be interested to see just how good the Stampede are when they play a contender in the division (Chesapeake isn't quite there yet, as already shown).

I don't like Lou, and I think he'll admit that as quick as anyone, but I must give him props for seeing right through my "everything's great here, we're just as good as the UIF" talk all of last year. It was my job, and apparently I did it well. A heck of a lot better than having to attack fans that question the CIFL's perceived (and incorrect) greatness. Does the CIFL have a chance to be the premier indoor football league? Sure it does. But I don't think they're taking the steps necessary to ensure that position.

[exit322]

To be fair

27 games
games won...
by 3 points or less.....................3 35-37 ,48-51, 35-38
by up to 7 points ......................1 30-37
from 8 up to 20 points ...............5 25-45 ,55-65 ,21-34, 31-39, 29-46
by 21 to 30 points ....................4 47-19 , 20-48 ,66-44 ,42-21
from 31 to 50 points...................12 42-6 ,13-60 ,40-77 ,
7-54,62-30 ,63-25 , 6-61,54-6,54-12, 67-29, 47-13, 89-49
by over 50 points(67) ................2 70-3, 89-32

Average 30, median 28

[Eric Spitaleri]

Hey Josh, in 8 weeks for the AFL, they have had 21 games that have finished with a point difference of 21+ points, a few of those have been 40 point games and one was 53. And with the UIF, there have been 8 games in 5 weeks that have been 21+ points, so my question to you is, all those teams that get beat by 21+ points, is it because of bad ownership? Im not quit sure what you are trying to prove by talking the way you do. I have always let you know that if you have a problem, my phone is always open.

[cRUSHer]

I don't like Lou, and I think he'll admit that as quick as anyone, but I must give him props for seeing right through my "everything's great here, we're just as good as the UIF" talk all of last year. It was my job, and apparently I did it well. A heck of a lot better than having to attack fans that question the CIFL's perceived (and incorrect) greatness. Does the CIFL have a chance to be the premier indoor football league? Sure it does. But I don't think they're taking the steps necessary to ensure that position.


(He doesn't like Lou ... "Hey ,thats my name too" :eek: )


Dang , I hope he doesn't mean me.:confused:
That wouldn't be nice at all. Would it ?
I'm loved by millions ... well several anyway .:infun:

Though I did see through the snowscreen.
Ah , but that's only because I'd seen it once before.;)

I think the CIFL final scores looked a whole lot
better this past weekend btw.
Still funky overall , but much better.

Do the newer teams need the time to get the
hang of the system ?
Last year everybody was new and it didn't matter.

[exit322]

The question is...beyond sheer numbers, has the CIFL grown?

Okay, you have a bunch of internet radio programs for teams. Great. Why is attendance down in Port Huron (your undefeated champs, remember), Miami Valley, and Steubenville? Why are both Springfield and NY/NJ averaging under 1,000 a game in their first year?

Time will tell on Muskegon now that the home fans saw them get whitewashed (though it didn't hurt Rochester at the gate).

I didn't go a perfect job, but I don't go attacking fans and other people in public or in private...

From Kevin J. Keller in a private message thismorning:

"If you like the UIF so much, then stick to following those teams around and trying to latch on with one of them.

And surprised it took you this long to attack me on how I do my job. Your comment about "attacking fans" is a direct jab at me. Which is fine, I don't really care.

But don't say you did a "good job" at this last year. I could reference numerous things said, but I won't on here. Every franchise has echoed the same sentiment about you, you "underperformed and failed in helping grow this league."

You had all the time in the world to do the stuff it took me three weeks to do, but you didn't do any of it.

You were asked numerous times to write the stuff for the media guide, never did it. You were asked repeated times to do press releases, never did them.

You went to Chicago for a press conference that you didn't need to attend on the league's dime and never wrote a press release for it.

If you want to throw jabs with me, I'll throw them right back.

I had three weeks before the start of the season and 14 teams to tend to when it came to broadcasting. We've missed three games.

You had six teams and had no broadcasts, except for Battle Creek, who did it on their own.

When I land this league a television deal in 2008, which is already in its planning stages, then come talk trash about me to anyone.

I've forgotten more about the media/broadcasting business than you'll ever know.

Don't question me or my ability to do my job."

[exit322]

I must say, those radio broadcasts did a heck of a job last year for the Crunch, too...because it just drew so many people to their games.

It's a good feature, I agree. I wish when Jeff told me long ago that "everyone would have them," that everyone did, but we'll go with almost everyone being good enough.

"Good enough," the mantra of indoor football.

Have fun with that TV deal, as the AIFA already announced theirs.

A media director is supposed to be the liaison at the league's major events. That includes announcements of new teams and that sort of thing. But shortly thereafter, it was made quite obvious that my presence wasn't appreciated nor wanted, and that's why I left.

I'm glad everyone's much happier now that almighty KJK is there (just ask him!), and that attendance and profits have risen for all. Well, I'm assuming on that last part, since the numbers sure don't agree.

[daytonadan]

Get the beer and nachos ... street fight between KJK and exit 322.

[exit322]

Na'ah, looks like the fight's over. I'm not allowed on their message board anymore...something about me being Jim Terry, Jr., or something.

Oh well, c'est la vie.

[daytonadan]

Oh, how I love to watch silly squabbles online. Who needs another night of American Idol?

I think I'll go to the AIFA and needle blue-hair for a while. Nah. Things to do.

[exit322]

Always something going on, indeed.

[Sykotyk]

Wow, I'm gone for a few days, and all hell breaks loose.

To think exit didn't do a good job last year is utterly ridiculous. How many fires did he put out on his tenure? He was the first person-to-person interviewer that got two teams to swap leagues.

But the league is not that great. And has a lot of issues. I told exit in the offseason that if the Stampede didn't play a predominantly Ohio schedule, that fans could be affected.

That was before I realized there'd be no advertising or promotion of the Stampede games, resulting in attendance of about how many Big Red fans stay past the end of the game just to cheer on the players leaving the field.

KJK, you make the league look very bad attacking both anyone who disagrees with the league's superiority, and those that did their best (and did a damn good job) to cover up the warts.

Sykotyk

[ChampionOfSteel]

Not going to argue that we do have some things to fix and I would like to see some of the games closer, but our fans continue to enjoy every second of the games.

There's a select few of you who come on here and our league message board and constantly talk about this. But you are exactly what I said, the FEW.

For every one of you that complains about this issue, we have 1,000 more who say they love going to the games.

Are there blowouts, yes. Will there always be blowouts, yes. Is it driving our fans away, NO.

Football purists don't keep teams afloat, fans do. And until more fans start talking like you select FEW do, we don't really have a problem.

"The time to worry is when your fans no longer care to criticize."
- Al Davis, Owner Oakland Raiders

Someone within the CIFL needs to start drawing histograms of your final scores/scoring margns from this year and last year like exit322 started doing in this thread. Shame on the CIFL if no one has been doing this privately all along.

The CIFL has a narrow bell curve (histogram) instead of a wide (desirable curve). What this means for any one game the odds are high the game will be over before the second half.

Don't fix it if it's not broke is bad business advice. Someone else will improve the widget and take your market share.

As far as I'm concerned the CIFL has collectively done a really less than ideal job this season...

1) ...in the PR department with anyone in the league able to spout off to the general public on message boards when only a few qualified people in the league with that skill set should be doing that...with tact and/or silence.

2) ...in monitoring your product. Your CIFL histogram is too narrow. "We" on the various message boards are giving you the symptoms of something ain't a right. The novelty of seeing new opponents in flashy uniforms is no longer intriguing at this point in the season. The substance (game system entertainment and talent parity) is messed up. It's up to you guys to examine your game system/talent parity/some other factor(s) and come up with the CORRECT problem definition and do something about it. In the same way, I'm not going to a ECHL game if their histogram becomes like the CIFL where the typical hockey game ends as 7 - 1. Get the picture?

3) ...by limiting your future financial options by expanding to 14 teams. You now have less financial options in the midwest area for the 2008 season when you should have been fine tuning your product/player selection methods, etc.


You guys do not have the correct vision, a plan for a correct vision in place. And as a result any honest effort becomes in vain (leadership by example) because the correct vision isn't there (the foundation).

At least give me credit for not being out of line with my words above. I tried to make it as pleasant and diplomatic as possible - which is something a fan isn't obligated to do.

[creativelysain]

Solid post CoS.

My only concern about this entire thread is that the league can't select the individual players for the teams. Each team is responsible for preparing themselves adequately talent-wise. That is not up to the league by any means.

I don't think there needs to be any rule modifications either, just each team needs to figure out the correct type of players needed to play this "particular" (7 v 7) game.

[exit322]

Margins have slowly gotten better as this year went on, and that's a good start. Let's see if it continues.

[ChampionOfSteel]

How much of that margin improvement is based on the home office pleading with each team owner not to run up the score?

[exit322]

How much of that margin improvement is based on the home office pleading with each team owner not to run up the score?

In 2006, the league just let Port Huron play with everyone on their bench throughout the games with NY/NJ. I imagine the rules are much the same this year...and ownership is much more inclined to get the local kids playing time.

That's the big thing when looking at Pirates scores.

54-7, 54-6, etc etc etc. They're not running up the score. They stop trying anything by halftime in most of their games (except Summit County, where they apparently stopped trying in warmups).

[Tatonka]

Too bad you didn't actually witness the Pirates/Rumble game... Port Huron would be the first to admit that they were given a helluva game by the Rumble. Three turnovers resulting directly in 24 points for the Pirates broke the game open in the second quarter, but it was (to my surprise) a very competitive game otherwise...

There were some real competitive af2 games this weekend, huh Josh?

[exit322]

Yeah, the AF2 has had some disappointing games this season. The teams haven't all adjusted well to the league's substitution rules change.

That said, despite 93-19 and 94-25 scores, Sean, the average CIFL margin of victory is 27.8 points...21.1 in the AF2. That's a touchdown difference, meaning that despite two 70+ point games, the AF2 is still more highly competitive than the CIFL.

CIFL games score 81 points, 16 fewer than AF2 games...so that extra touchdown difference is even more strongly highlighted.

This despite the AF2 having two beat downs of epic proportions.

(If you use median scores, which lessens the impact of outliers, the margin in AF2 games is 17 points, compared to 26 points in CIFL games...meaning the CIFL regularly still has many more blowouts compared with AF2 contests).

But the NIFL is still about a touchdown worse, with scoring only at 78 points per game...so the CIFL can still hang their hats on "at least we're not the NIFL in competitiveness." Port Huron played their by far, not even close, worst game of the year, and still won by 5 touchdowns going away, in a league where the rules lower scores.

[ChampionOfSteel]

Too bad you didn't actually witness the Pirates/Rumble game... Port Huron would be the first to admit that they were given a helluva game by the Rumble. Three turnovers resulting directly in 24 points for the Pirates broke the game open in the second quarter, but it was (to my surprise) a very competitive game otherwise...

There were some real competitive af2 games this weekend, huh Josh?

Josh = exit322? Got to have a scorecard to keep track of all of the multiple nicknames with
each person.

Was AF2 included in the histogram findings of exit322?

I don't know why AF2 would be a concern in this thread. If some neighborhood kid (AF2) was acting up in school, what would that have to do with your own kid's behavior (CIFL)? I find the AFL/AF2 game system as a commitment to mediocrity. I see good possibilities with a tweaked 7 on 7 system.

I just find it hard to believe the cause is talent parity alone:

Thru 04/28/2007

Rank | Team | Record | Round-Robin Winning Percentage | Bradley-Terry Points
1. Port Huron Pirates, MI (6-0) 0.916 100.000
2. Kalamazoo Xplosion, MI (5-0) 0.879 67.445
3. Rochester Raiders, NY (4-2) 0.733 21.212
4. Chicago Slaughter, IL (3-1) 0.704 17.521
5. Lehigh Valley Outlawz, PA (3-1) 0.613 10.139
6. Steubenville Stampede, OH (4-1) 0.546 6.963
7. Marion Mayhem, OH (2-3) 0.532 6.455
8. Miami Valley Silverbacks, OH (2-3) 0.503 5.520
9. Chesapeake Tide, MD (1-3) 0.389 2.926
10. Muskegon Thunder, MI (2-3) 0.376 2.720
11. New England Surge, MA (2-3) 0.311 1.862
12. Springfield Stallions, IL (0-4) 0.281 1.543
13. Summit County Rumble, OH (0-5) 0.122 0.464
14. New York-New Jersey Revolution, NJ (0-5) 0.096 0.357
Fictitious Team 5.418

#1 Port Huron beats the livin' snot out #3 Rochester, not once, but twice. Rochester then beats the snot out of #5 Lehigh Valley and #9 Chesapeake. Look at how closely Port Huron is to Rochester. Just two spots separate those two. Look at how closely Rochester and Lehigh Valley are to each other -- two spots again.

Exit322's histograms have the CIFL almost in the basement. Talent discrepancies can't explain that difference for every team, correct?

The CIFL has good financial terms which would be comparable to UIF and WIFL, right? The rosters are comparable to UIF/WIFL rosters, right?

If subtle talent parity discrepancies are magnified in the 7 against 7 game, then what else is left than the tweaking the game system for the better to correct the lopsided scores? Why not allow the defense to send the entire team if they want across the line of scrimmage for any snap that is within the 15 yards of the defensive team's goal line?

The bottom line is talent discrepancies cannot explain away the huge differences in final score variations alone.

Why all of the pride in NOT changing the system? You can't lose anything you don't have (competitive games). If Kevin says fans show up anyway (because of the cheerleaders, etc.?) why the resistance in experimenting during the practice week with new rules and adopting them right now?

[exit322]

Talent discrepancies can always, and do always, explain large discrepancies in scores.

I didn't see Akron fans clamoring for a change in the NCAA rules back in '97 when they got smacked 59-14 at Nebraska. But what you're saying is that rules are the reasons for blowouts, not talent discrepancies.

Port Huron's the easily most talented team in the CIFL. If they played with AFL rules, their games would be a bit closer, because they don't have the bigger receivers you need with AFL rules (Jermaine Jackson moved up to the AF2, and is having a fair year in Fort Wayne). If they played with PIFL-style rules, they'd be smashing everyone else in the CIFL by as big, or bigger, margins.

[exit322]

I'm not sure fans are still showing up. New England's Game Two attendance dropped from 4700 to 2100. Ow?

Springfield's averaging under 1000 fans a game.

Attendance in Steubenville is down (for a team that is 4-0 at home).

Miami Valley's hasn't risen, even though by all accounts the people there think they're in an improved league.

Port Huron's is stagnant for a team that's still never lost.

The keys to watch will be Muskegon and Kalamazoo as they have more games (and Muskegon recovers from the 30+ point beat down they got from Port Huron).

[creativelysain]

I'm not sure fans are still showing up. New England's Game Two attendance dropped from 4700 to 2100. Ow?

That's because the game was moved to the next day, a Sunday, in the afternoon (the Hockey team got the Saturday for the playoffs).

The announcers said it was a pretty good crowd for a short notice switch, and would have surpassed the week before if it was a Satruday night game.

[exit322]

The next four home games will determine if that's true.

[Jamie]

Miami Valley's hasn't risen, even though by all accounts the people there think they're in an improved league.

With all its warts, I'll still take the CIFL over the AIFL or NIFL...

[exit322]

Well yeah, the CIFL is an upgrade over those two. AIFA, not so sure, but definitely over the AIFL.

Hopefully these are all anomalies and attendance starts rising as the season goes on.

[creativelysain]

I think you may see the highest come down a bit, but hopefully the lower teams will come up too to even thing sout across the board.

The league-wide average so far is ~2600. I think if it stays near 2200 - 2800 it's not too bad.

[exit322]

I'd hope it would be better than last year's (over 2200), but I don't see it happening, because there are an awful lot of teams that aren't drawing right now.