70-3

[Sykotyk]

I know it's not indicative of the competition level in the league, but this really surprised me. Last week in the scrimmage, the Stampede were flat, uncoordinated, and unable to make a solid play. After working on it, and opening against NY/NJ, they just steamrolled them.

The Revs were a bad team, no question. But the dismantling was extraordinary.

42-3 at the half, 56-3 at the end of 3. Even with Maiuri replaced by Ivory at QB, the team still moved the ball well, even deep into garbage time. And the defense never let up, including #72, Carlos Spinner.

Sykotyk

[ChampionOfSteel]

Did you go to the doubleheader or are you reporting someone else's findings?

Your thoughts if you went to the game(s)?

[Dogs-Glads-Xtreme]

I listened to this game on the radio and the Revolution seemed to be out played in every aspect of the game. I do not think that they had 1 good offensive drive or one good stop on the defensive side of the ball. The Revolution's only points were on a 35+ FG in the 1st quarter. As an indoor fan from NJ this is terrible for me to hear and/or see. The roster in my opinion needs to be relooked at or these players need a definate boost of enthuasim.

There should have been no lag of energy for the Revs. because they flew out to Ohio according to their site.

[Sykotyk]

The 2007 Revs are the 2006 Stampede, simple as that. Had little coordination, little stamina to last a whole game, and as things got worse, they accumulated even more mistakes.

A quip after the game was that in retrospect it didn't look like the Revs FG was good, as it went over the bar, and might have been too far outside to count. After the horrible scrimmage last week, the Stampede seemed to really work on the three basic elements, solidify the O-line (Maiuri had free reign in the backfield), get better QB-WR coordination, and work on the C-QB exchange.

Sykotyk

[Dogs-Glads-Xtreme]

Just for my curiosity did any Revolution player in your opinion play a good game?

[Sykotyk]

It was too hard to tell. The QB was running for his life every play and his best option was to throw it away or into coverage. On defense, the DBs all were outpaced on almost every play and the DL was not able to crack the line for 90% of the game. And the few times they did, it was a straight bull rush that left a QB bootleg wide open, which Maiuri did several times (including two TD runs).

Honestly, the kick return team did decent. They got a lot of great field positions, but as the game went they got sloppy and were bobbling the ball on the bounces. There wasn't much to get excited about.

Sykotyk

[exit322]

The 2006 Revs are a lot closer to the 2006 Stamps than the 2007 model is. Those two teams would have played some fun games (last year's NY/NJ offense would probably have done fair in an AIFL rules set...provided they had a coach). The 2007 Revs are worse. You don't lose five of your best players (NY/NJ has a real shot at the 2006 playoffs with any semblance of a coaching staff, mind you) - and bring in no appreicably better talent - and expect to get better.

[ChampionOfSteel]

How about the commissioner steps in and basically orders certain players from other teams to play for the Revs to even things out?

I don't think we can rule out the game system yet, can we? There were other games that had scoring embarrassments...involving teams with decent talent. I also do NOT want the final solution to be some corporate document being mailed off to the membered teams' coaches warning them not to run up the score either. That is fake.

I could be wrong and a lot of times I am wrong, but let's don't rule out some refinement to the game system as needed, at least not yet. I'll give it a few more weeks of play, but after that....

[preeths]

Are you serious? How fair is that to have the commish order players from other teams, which presumably did the work to get good talent, to a team which did not. Not to mention the fact that some of them would have to move to play for the Revs. Not going to happen. We may not be able to rule out the game system, but I can't see why we'd point the finger at it yet either. We may as well target building size. For that matter, we haven't even had time to see if there is a problem! Let's give it a month until we look for solutions to a problem we don't even know exists.

[ChampionOfSteel]

Are you serious? How fair is that to have the commish order players from other teams, which presumably did the work to get good talent, to a team which did not.

Leave nothing to chance. If this isn't something privately already being monitored by the owners and commish, shame on them.

I don't think the fans can stomach another Port Huron massacre. They beat two top tier teams (badly) already.

Grant it, leagues that have player drafts have them because distance and pay (millions of dollars) won't get a rejection. But the point is the lack of talent parity doesn't help any of the teams including the winners.

We may not be able to rule out the game system, but I can't see why we'd point the finger at it yet either.

and

For that matter, we haven't even had time to see if there is a problem! Let's give it a month until we look for solutions to a problem we don't even know exists.


A good and prudent business man (or woman) already has something like this on their radar until it becomes possible to distinguish symptoms of problems and the actual problem itself. As far as giving it another month, mmmm... I don't know about that because the scoring margins seemed a little too high from last year. Because of that you have to start looking at the particulars of the game system and forecast/speculate what could be refined during a week day scrimmage. I'm not advocating dumping 7 man at all. I'm advocating what refinements would make it better!

Maybe to strongly encourage the nearby teams to trade their players to the Revs would be a better way of saying it.

I'll give the owners and the commish the benefit of the doubt they already have this on their radar to monitor.

[exit322]

It is up to the league to bring in ownership groups and managements that will bring the highest level of play. The 7 on 7 system is not an issue, just like the NIFL's 8-man system wasn't an issue when Black Hills popped Southern Oregon 108-3 (and SO wasn't missing that many of their players). The 8-man system wasn't an issue last year when Sioux Falls popped Peoria 70-0 in the UIF.

Outdoor football has blowouts just like the indoor game. It's just that in the indoor game, since teams score so much more often, the blowouts can get much uglier on paper than perhaps they otherwise would.

Teams need to do a better job of bringing in better players. The WIFL plays with virtually the same exact system as the AIFA. Why haven't they had 80-20 games or 78-6 games like the AIFA did? Ah yes, disparate talent within the league.

When the UIF has a blowout somewhere (and it's indoor football, that will happen even when teams are closely talented as in the UIF), I will make sure to complain they need to change the game system that has been used since the 1998 PIFL, because it obviously doesn't work. Or...maybe there's something to the whole "as leagues and teams mature, the long-lasting teams all figure out what talent is needed to win and stay competitive" theory.

Though yes, mistakes have been made, the CIFL is still only in its second year of what is a BRAND NEW game system to indoor football. Of course it's going to take teams all over time to figure it out (NY/NJ nonwithstanding, they'd be killed in any league that's still playing).

[ChampionOfSteel]

It is up to the league to bring in ownership groups and managements that will bring the highest level of play. The 7 on 7 system is not an issue, just like the NIFL's 8-man system wasn't an issue when Black Hills popped Southern Oregon 108-3 (and SO wasn't missing that many of their players). The 8-man system wasn't an issue last year when Sioux Falls popped Peoria 70-0 in the UIF.

Outdoor football has blowouts just like the indoor game. It's just that in the indoor game, since teams score so much more often, the blowouts can get much uglier on paper than perhaps they otherwise would.

Teams need to do a better job of bringing in better players. The WIFL plays with virtually the same exact system as the AIFA. Why haven't they had 80-20 games or 78-6 games like the AIFA did? Ah yes, disparate talent within the league.

When the UIF has a blowout somewhere (and it's indoor football, that will happen even when teams are closely talented as in the UIF), I will make sure to complain they need to change the game system that has been used since the 1998 PIFL, because it obviously doesn't work. Or...maybe there's something to the whole "as leagues and teams mature, the long-lasting teams all figure out what talent is needed to win and stay competitive" theory.

Though yes, mistakes have been made, the CIFL is still only in its second year of what is a BRAND NEW game system to indoor football. Of course it's going to take teams all over time to figure it out (NY/NJ nonwithstanding, they'd be killed in any league that's still playing).

And the AFL Dragons got beat 60-7, too.

So if it's not the game system, how do we fix the problem? Is NY/NJ locked into their current set of players? How do you get new, bigger, faster and more talented players after the season already started? Blowouts suck.

[mvhcpa]

...the game system itself has to do with the disparate scores, UNLESS the system itself neutralizes the defense like they weren't even on the field, so that a competent offense CANNOT be stopped.

A team getting only 3 points under such a system would simply represent an incompetent offense that would get nothing no matter WHAT game system they played under (7-man, 8-man, XFL, or knock-hockey).

So, it's not so much a function of blowouts as it is a function of points made by each competent offense. Therefore, would a score of 70-71 reveal the same problem? The answer is yes, if non-existent, like-they-aren't-even-on-the-field defense is a problem to you (which I guess it would be to all real football fans, not just casual viewers who get off watching "action-packed, high-scoring" games).

Here's another system-specific problem that blowouts might demonstrate--the lack of scoring on another team's part could also indicate a problem opposite to the one noted above. In this case, the problem would be that the defense is so stacked by the game system itself that there is a higher bar to offensive competency. Below the bar, you get nothing; above the bar, you can't be stopped. Under that scenario, would 9-6 games be a problem? Personally, I think so, because although I think defense should be an integral part of the game, we sure don't need the rarity of scoring (like in outdoor soccer) to kill indoor football! Once again, a blowout in and of itself would not represent the problem, unless the problem is the gross magnification of differences in the offensive competencies of the teams.

Either way, that seems to be a lot to pin on the game system itself. How 'bout this simpler explanation--a lot of teams are GREAT this year, and a lot of team STINK this year, and when their paths cross, it ain't gonna be pretty.:eek:

Michael Val
(who thinks we need to see more games by more teams against more different teams to even begin to tell if the game system is the problem)

[exit322]

The 7-man setup has pretty well evened out things some, which is why the defense was given a few carrots no one else gives. It's a more defensive game, but that in itself basically gives the opportunity for a wider range of scores...high and low.

[phydeaux72]

A team getting only 3 points under such a system would simply represent an incompetent offense that would get nothing no matter WHAT game system they played under (7-man, 8-man, XFL, or knock-hockey).

What is this "knock-hockey" you speak of??? :confused:

[Sykotyk]

Think of it this way: Steubenville had a good O and a great defense. NYNJ had a bad O and a so-so D.

Add equal parts of both, and you get a blowout. It just so happened that one team executed in all facets of the game, and the other didn't. it was barely 22-3 at the end of the first quarter. It could've been less. Without NYNJ going for it so wrecklessly near the end of the second quarter, it could've been 28-3 instead of 42-3. By then, NYNJ had left the competitive part of the game and it was en route to a blowout. Even with the backups in, the Stampede went over 50 minutes without getting stopped on offense. Meanwhile, the Stampede stopped the Revs on every posession, and if not for a close field position and the team feeling they needed points, rather than another 4th down attempt, it could've been 70-0.

It has nothing to do with the game system. As exit and mvhcpa have said, no matter what game system, the only one that can reduce a blowout is one that negates either offensive talent, or exagerates defensive prowess.

And that would not make for an entertaining game as 'luck' would be the only deciding factor in the game.

Sykotyk

[Dogs-Glads-Xtreme]

This region has some of the top semi-pro football players in the nation, but the Revolution seem unable to get those players. The Xtreme had all semi-pro players and at least kept it competative against top tieri ndoor football talent (River City, Cincy, Tri Cities, and at that time Miami). In order for the Revs to win they must run the ball a lot more then then they have in the past.

[creativelysain]

In order for the Revs to win they must run the ball a lot more then then they have in the past.

I agree with this 100%. Seeing them play on Saturday, they also need a playmaker at the QB spot. They need their aboslute fastest player, and "thinker" back there. Even if he can't throw the ball quite as well as Hanratty, they have to have someone with quick feet to elude the pass rush that inevitably will come every play.

[mvhcpa]

What is this "knock-hockey" you speak of??? :confused:

...that's a term I use meaning, roughly, "no matter what league you are in." I first heard it when listening to a sports radio talk show where the folks were discussing getting fans to come to games, and the conversation went something like "I don't care if it's major-league, minor-league, football, basketball, or professional knock-hockey, you gotta do such-and-such."

Knock-hockey, if I remember right, is actually a table-top game like air hockey but without the air and using small hand-held hockey sticks.

Michael Val
(who asks anyone else who knows more about knock-hockey to feel free to correct me!)

[exit322]

I know in watching the Revs four times last year...with their line, they weren't gonna run the ball. The only time they got anything on the ground was when the QB scrambled away from pressure.