Stingers Nest

[billm75]

Hey folks,

I realize alot of you have issues with the League, but I for one am thrilled at having the opportunity for indoor football in the Columbia, SC area. I've even started a fan site at www.stingersnest.com

While you can pick apart the league and it's directors, there's nothing saying you can't TRY to enjoy the teams that will participate this season. I think it could be a lot of fun for everyone involved if people will just give the team a chance.

South Carolina has ZERO pro sports teams, and this is the closest we're coming to a "pro" football team. I want to support them and help make them successful if at all possible, because it may open the doors for bigger and better as time passes.

So for any serious fans of the indoor football game, and especially fans of the STINGERS....please visit the site: www.stingersnest.com and join our Community Forum to help support these guys.

(no, I'm not affiliated with the team in ANY way) Heck, they won't even offer me free tickets to a game. ;) But I'll be there anyways!

Thanks
Bill
www.stingersnest.com
admin@stingersnest.com

[sportznut]

I remember being that bright eyed and hoping for the best....funny what 4 years can do

[billm75]

ah, hell. At least there's SOMETHING football related happening in Columbia that doesn't relate to the GameCOCKS and the TIGERS for pete's sake! LOL

Besides, even bad football beats good baseball..........GO STINGERS

[Gusher]

I remember being that bright eyed and hoping for the best....funny what 4 years can do

Sorry I got you hooked then the rug was pulled out from us.

[finatic]

hey bill, my name is carl and i was the president of the fan club for the charleston sandsharks last year and the charleston firecats of the nafl. i was also a member of the fan club for the charleston swampfoxes. this is an awesome game and i have spoken to everyone in columbia and there are several sandshark players that may make the team...my friends earl cameron and chris matthews and maybe danny boland....i want to start a fanclub for the stingers and designate a section in the colonial center for the NOISE MAKERS and support this team. email me so we can get together saturday at the fanfest and talk over some ideas......go stingers!!!! and just ask the guard fans about me....i will stand out at the games!!!!

[finatic]

hooter girls? they are going to hang out with you guys? just kiddin'....that should be fun.....i had hooters of north charleston inked for a sponsorship for the carolina sandsharks (was suppose to play this year in the aifa) but, thanks to the north charleston coliseum wanting $15,000 per home game plus parking and concessions....we don't and never will have a team there again. good luck to you guys......does mitch galloway still play there?

[Red Zone]

South Carolina has ZERO pro sports teams, and this is the closest we're coming to a "pro" football team. I want to support them and help make them successful if at all possible, because it may open the doors for bigger and better as time passes.

Thanks
Bill
www.stingersnest.com
admin@stingersnest.com


South Carolina has several pro sports teams. Hockey includes:Columbia Inferno of the ECHL, Pee Dee (Florence) Cyclones of the SPHL. Baseball includes Charleston Riverdogs and Greenville Bombers of the SAL League, and the Myrtle Beach Pelicans. You might even include the Charlotte Knights (AAA ball) since they play in York County. These are the ones I know of. You can even include another indoor football team - Florence Phantoms of the AIFA.

If people define "professional" as getting paid to play a sport, then there are several professional indoor football teams around the southeast and country. I wish some of them would act in a professional manner (i.e-the NFL). "To be a pro, you have to act like a pro" and that lacks in some leagues and teams.

Good job on the website.

[billm75]

Well, I guess I consider pro teams to be NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL.........old way of thinking.

Anyhow, I have been to Inferno games and they're alot of fun too. I always considered them minor league, or semi-pro I s'pose.

I'm working with the Stingers PR director to get something going for the Stingers Nest supporters at the games, and hopefully something will come of it soon. If you're interested in Stingers football, be sure to join the forums there...heck, if you're interested in NIFL football, you're welcome to join us too! (just don't wear your opposing team colors) ;)

[finatic]

Stay Away Guard Fans!!!!!!! Just Joking!!!! ;)

[baydaddy77]

billm75,

If you're working with the Stinger's PR director, remind them that there is not time listed for their Fanfest on Saturday the 10th. They really need to let people know when things are happening. The Stinger organization (to this point) has been very, very poor at getting info out and it's already showing in (lack of) ticket sales. You can do a great job on a fan site, but if people don't know the team exists, they certainly won't be looking for a fan site.

Good Luck with your site.

[xball44]

Two words for you fans of Columbia, SC - Tony Pewonski. trust me here, run away as quickly as possible covering your wallet. Fat, crooked, and broke is no way to go through life.

Ruined franchises by TP so far, Kissimmee, Lakeland, Daytona Beach, Dayton, and Greensboro. Need we go on?

[Red Zone]

Well, I guess I consider pro teams to be NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL.........old way of thinking.



Columbia will never have any of the above. The closest we can ever be happy with will be the minor leagues. The only chance South Carolina will get something like if it's actually near Rock Hill has the name "Charlotte" or "Carolina" before whatever team nickname they choose.

[sportsguy12]

Well, I guess I consider pro teams to be NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL.........old way of thinking.

Anyhow, I have been to Inferno games and they're alot of fun too. I always considered them minor league, or semi-pro I s'pose.

I'm working with the Stingers PR director to get something going for the Stingers Nest supporters at the games, and hopefully something will come of it soon. If you're interested in Stingers football, be sure to join the forums there...heck, if you're interested in NIFL football, you're welcome to join us too! (just don't wear your opposing team colors) ;)

Any teams where athletes are PAID are considered professional.
Your notion of pro teams are more major league.
Your notion of minor league seems to be accurate.

The NIFL is definitely minor league, as would be the case with most indoor leagues. I think the Arena Football League considers itself to be major league - if only because af2 is its minor league system.

[billm75]

billm75,

If you're working with the Stinger's PR director, remind them that there is not time listed for their Fanfest on Saturday the 10th. They really need to let people know when things are happening. The Stinger organization (to this point) has been very, very poor at getting info out and it's already showing in (lack of) ticket sales. You can do a great job on a fan site, but if people don't know the team exists, they certainly won't be looking for a fan site.

Good Luck with your site.

I just got the word that Fan Fest will be held from 11am to 2pm on Saturday, March 10th at the Colonial Center in Columbia.

I agree that they haven't been very aggressive in getting the word out about the team, but I'm doing as much as I can (as an unpaid supporter) to help spread the word. My site gets a good amount of traffic and I'm hoping to generate more interest as the season gets under way.

Even if the league has a bad reputation from its' past dealings, I'm still willing to give them a fair chance here. I'd love to see the team succeed and I'm sure many others would too. Small budgets and small markets make it hard to pound out a niche in the sports world. Look at Arena League. I know YOU all know about it, but very few people I talk to that are NFL and NCAA fans even know it exists. Yet, the Arena League is seen as a success. It will take time for any league to get on the right track and become stable. The NFL wasn't much for it's first 20 or so years either. ;)

(let the bashing begin, tell me how naive I am, etc etc etc.) ;)

[fwp]

I just got the word that Fan Fest will be held from 11am to 2pm on Saturday, March 10th at the Colonial Center in Columbia.

I agree that they haven't been very aggressive in getting the word out about the team, but I'm doing as much as I can (as an unpaid supporter) to help spread the word. My site gets a good amount of traffic and I'm hoping to generate more interest as the season gets under way.

Even if the league has a bad reputation from its' past dealings, I'm still willing to give them a fair chance here. I'd love to see the team succeed and I'm sure many others would too. Small budgets and small markets make it hard to pound out a niche in the sports world. Look at Arena League. I know YOU all know about it, but very few people I talk to that are NFL and NCAA fans even know it exists. Yet, the Arena League is seen as a success. It will take time for any league to get on the right track and become stable. The NFL wasn't much for it's first 20 or so years either. ;)

(let the bashing begin, tell me how naive I am, etc etc etc.) ;)

Don't let anyone talk you out of your fandom. Make every effort to help your team be successful, for the fans to know what's going on.

Perhaps things will work out great for you and your team, if not, you may be getting the attention of people that can make it work. Perhaps in other leagues, perhaps a totally different team in your city.

No matter what, enjoy what you have to the fullest extent that you can. Indoor football IS fun!

[mrinsideto-u]

hey bill, my name is carl and i was the president of the fan club for the charleston sandsharks last year and the charleston firecats of the nafl. i was also a member of the fan club for the charleston swampfoxes. this is an awesome game and i have spoken to everyone in columbia and there are several sandshark players that may make the team...my friends earl cameron and chris matthews and maybe danny boland....i want to start a fanclub for the stingers and designate a section in the colonial center for the NOISE MAKERS and support this team. email me so we can get together saturday at the fanfest and talk over some ideas......go stingers!!!! and just ask the guard fans about me....i will stand out at the games!!!! Noise Makers, and you were one of the people negotiating a lease for the Sharks, you do need medication, I think it's great that you have the love of the game but to even get involved with the ownership there after what he did in Florida,,,, good luck. PS, please tell your coach that the owner is a con man.... :cool:

[preeths]

everyone up here just about tried to suckerpunch our owner because of the whole billings thing last year but not ONE of them no him past his photo in the paper and I assure you he gives a rats ass what they think because he always does things above board and he knows it!

It was a poor decision to challenge the championship game site, pure and simple. It was then, and it remains so now. Nothing personal against Mr. King, but he took bad advice from the wrong person. No one tried to "suckerpunch" him. They called him on a bad decision.

[Minor League Man]

Two words for you fans of Columbia, SC - Tony Pewonski. trust me here, run away as quickly as possible covering your wallet. Fat, crooked, and broke is no way to go through life.

Ruined franchises by TP so far, Kissimmee, Lakeland, Daytona Beach, Dayton, and Greensboro. Need we go on?
1. Kissimmee (now Osceola) and Lakeland are now doing much better thanks to new ownership and new leagues.
2. Daytona Beach is also in a better situation, albeit with the Thunder instead of the Hawgs.
3. Dayton flopped, but hopefully the Marshals will restore fan confidence (if not, they can go to Silverbacks games)
4. Not even I know why Greensboro is playing this year.

[AllAces]

Noize - even king admitted he took advice from the wrong person - Carolyn Shriver. He paid dearly from his wallet for that. We are all past it - you should get there too.

[preeths]

This from someone who cited local writer Brett Friedlander to back up the point that that school of thought was correct. I'll leave it at that.

Whether you like him or not, people listen to what Friedlander has to say. I've also spoken with some of his colleagues in the area, and they respect him. Almost all of the criticism he had of the Guard fell right on the league, so I don't know why you continue to act like he has an axe to grind against the Guard organization. It simply isn't true.

I didn't even mention that a Montana court sided with the Outlaws, making any challenge attempt by King null and void before he made it. Those advising King knew it. All he did was waste time and make things more difficult on the players and coaches. If you don't listen to Friedlander, how about history or the courts?

[preeths]

Noize - even king admitted he took advice from the wrong person - Carolyn Shriver. He paid dearly from his wallet for that. We are all past it - you should get there too.

For some, it's easier to kill the messenger.

[NatePreds05]

1. Kissimmee (now Osceola) and Lakeland are now doing much better thanks to new ownership and new leagues.
2. Daytona Beach is also in a better situation, albeit with the Thunder instead of the Hawgs.
3. Dayton flopped, but hopefully the Marshals will restore fan confidence (if not, they can go to Silverbacks games)
4. Not even I know why Greensboro is playing this year.

All of them are doing better now under new ownership, and I think it's the same with Greensboro. As for Osceola, they had to create a new franchise and start from ground up after LBI bought the team from AP. Same with Daytona Beach. Lakeland is doing much better too. At least all the teams here in FL that Pewonowski burned are doing better in other leagues for the time being.

[xball44]

You are full of passion, and that's a great thing. Many teams in other markets would be well served to have fans as passionate as you.

However, to say the Fayetteville franchise is the standard for franchises is ridiculous. Your Owner completely mismanaged the playoff situation, and it cast a black eye deservedly so on Fayettevile. Your GM from last year? Don't even need to go there.....

Fayetteville excerised very poor judgment by remaining in the NIFL. It essentially came down to not having the financial wherewithal to join the WIFL. Maybe next year.

[preeths]

It isn't the paper's job to do positive or negative pieces on the team, just to report the news. Unfortunately, at the peak of what could have been the best news of the Guard season, its owner made an extremely poor, ill-informed decision that cost the team its moment in the sun, not to mention most of the credibility it had built to that point, and maybe a title.

You started off arguing that fans should support their teams, no matter what. Though open to debate, that's a defendable position. But you moved on to insinuate the Guard has been unfairly picked on and targeted by local media. I don't believe that for a second. The organization, largely because of the league to which it belongs, has earned the criticism. Not only did we have the championship game fiasco, but we saw the Palm Beach replacement game and the arrest of the GM. Some of those fall on the Guard, some on the league, but all chip away at the organization's credibility.

[sportsguy12]

I just got the word that Fan Fest will be held from 11am to 2pm on Saturday, March 10th at the Colonial Center in Columbia.

I agree that they haven't been very aggressive in getting the word out about the team, but I'm doing as much as I can (as an unpaid supporter) to help spread the word. My site gets a good amount of traffic and I'm hoping to generate more interest as the season gets under way.

Even if the league has a bad reputation from its' past dealings, I'm still willing to give them a fair chance here. I'd love to see the team succeed and I'm sure many others would too. Small budgets and small markets make it hard to pound out a niche in the sports world. Look at Arena League. I know YOU all know about it, but very few people I talk to that are NFL and NCAA fans even know it exists. Yet, the Arena League is seen as a success. It will take time for any league to get on the right track and become stable. The NFL wasn't much for it's first 20 or so years either. ;)

(let the bashing begin, tell me how naive I am, etc etc etc.) ;)

how many years do you think they need? Before you answer this, keep in mind, that their health has been declining over the past few years.

[xball44]

Name a better run NIFL Franchise? Let's turn back the clock to last year, and I'll name (4): River City (now of the UIF), Billings (now of the UIF), Lakeland (now of the AIFA), and Osceola (now of the WIFL). Do you see a trend here? These were and are organizations run by smart, capable people, with the financial resources to run top organizations. If anything, the fact that Fayetteville stuck in the NIFL speaks of their judment (or lack of) and financial position (or lack of).

By the way, the Guard wanted to join the WIFL, but could not meet the $55K entry fee.

So if your local newspaper is smart enough to yawn about the prospects of playing with the likes of (2) Pewonski Teams, and the financially unstable Marshalls, they are doing their job.

The Palm Beach scenario? Paul is right. Your Owner and GM embarassed themselves here as well.

[preeths]

The GM getting arrested? What does that have to do with the Guard OWNER being that it was for something that had NOTHING to do with the Guard operations--?? See what I mean--you're blending the two together. I won't defend or commend the former GM one way or the other but however I feel about HIM I certainly have the wherewithall to separate my feelings for the ownership from.

Any time a member of a pro sports organization, particularly the highest ranking member of the front office, gets arrested, it will reflect negatively on the organization. People knew him by his position, and his position is what made his bust newsworthy, like it or not. That's just a fact of life. Maybe it isn't fair to the owner, but the GM was a part of the organization. We're talking about public and media perception here, and you can't separate a high-ranking member of the franchise from the franchise itself in those arenas.

[preeths]

sorry about the multiple responses but sometimes i let the little things that shouldn't slide, slide in leiu of the big picture...you mentioned "the Palm Beach replacement game..."

What did THEIR poor ownership and business savvy have to do with the GUARD ownership and their attempt to provide fans with a show at their OWN expense??? Even if that was the WRONG thing to do--which I do not agree with--don't you at least appreciate the incredibly awkward position the Guard was in??

Again, we're talking about public and media perception here. We all recognize the Guard was placed in a no-win situation by a decision the league made (letting in a team without an arena) before the season started. Bottom line is, their fault or not, the Guard did not provide the product it promised, a game between two professional teams, even though the blame may lie elsewhere. Still, the Guard ownership trusted that same league that burned it with the Palm Beach situation later during the year on the eve of the championship game. Now, that same ownership has entrusted another year to that very same league.

Look, I also commend your passion, but to pretend that fans should overlook the obvious missteps of the organization, those that belonged to it, and the league to which it belongs, is nonsense.

[preeths]

And another thing. Tell me WHICH franchise in the NIFL better represents HOW a franchise SHOULD be run? Not how most of them ARE run but how they SHOULD be? Maybe we aren't doing ENOUGH if there is a better example out there.

After three seasons of mass defections, there's not a lot to choose from in the NIFL right now, but even if you limit the discussion to current teams, Wyoming certainly has to be at the top of the list. If they'd ever issue press releases, they'd be among the best in all of indoor football. Other than that, Beaumont and Greensboro are the NIFL's only two returning teams in the same markets as 2006(!), and they don't represent a very high bar to top. San Diego also looks strong, but it may be too early to tell. When the Guard starts drawing a legit 4-5k per game, then they will start to compare favorably with the best organizations in the game.

This is not to get down on those who are doing a good job in Fayetteville. The front office has been understaffed in the past, but it appears more is going on now. The team has a new website and GM, and press releases are being issued, so those are all positive steps.

[AllAces]

Noize - I commend your enthusiasm. You really do represent the Guard well as a fan. No matter what is discussed, don't lose your enthusiasm. That is not the goal of this forum. However, open discussions and differing opinions are. My "Pipe down" subject line referred specifically to your defensive comments, feeling like everyone was picking on the Guard and your subtle attack of Paul hinting that he has personal feelings against the Guard.

When you so enthusiastically say general things like, "Supporting your local team, in my own opinion, is not only a defendable position but the ONLY correct one;" it makes me think of Rapid City at the beginning of last season when Howard Neil/Wiener/Patterson came to town looking for local "support." There were many people that learned some tough lessons about what unscrupulous people will do with their money and they learned all about unquestioningly supporting the local team.

You are promoting blind allegiance and that is never a good thing. To think that any team owner is 100% righteous may lead you to disappointment. I am not necessarily referring to the Guard, but your comment is not limited to the Guard. I think you are giving bad advice. There are many communities that stand to be conned by either unproven expansion team owners or the (in my opinion) con artists of the NIFL itself.

Just like every person, every team owner has good and bad qualities. That is true as well with Mr. King. While we are past it, no one here has ever been told exactly how involved Mr. King was in trying to persuade the Aces and the Rage to take the Outlaw's place in the championship game. Those calls came from King, not the league. It suits our purposes to allow the league to be completely blamed, but Mr. King deserves some for his personal actions. Guard fans think the Guard was right and Outlaws fans (and a judge) think the Outlaws were right. The rest of us in the middle will make up our own minds about it.

That being said, I personally think the Guard is ONE OF the best teams in the league right now. I think King deserves to get past last years mistakes, but they do (as Paul said) chip away at his credibility. But, the Guard will inevitably be successful this year and hopefully will move on to bigger and better things next year.

Credibility is gained (or lost) based on a lot of things. Not all of which are within our control. Historical actions are one such factor, as is those you associate with. You can't do anything about history, but you can change who you are associated with. The sooner the Guard gets out of the league that does not serve them (or their fans) well, the better off they will be. Like Wyoming, they had their opportunity to change that in the off-season and they didn't. They are responsible for that decision and the ramifications.

Another factor for credibility that we have limited control of is public opinion. One sure fire way to keep this positive is to keep as far away from controversy as possible. King was not successful at this last year. For that, he is also responsible.

I hope the Guard does well this year and the league causes them minimal damage, both with credibility and financially.

[sportsguy12]

This all started from me rooting on another enthusiastic fan while drawing a comparison to the King thing, which--in my opinion at least in a great part--was undue him.

We will all think what we will and for the most part and to a large degree almost everything you guys say about the LEAGUE is correct. That said, if I were on the outside looking in on this conversation, I would tend to beleive the guy who is geographically there and deep on the inside about the ownsership, etc than I would someone who has probably never even spoke with anyone involved, thats all.

Once again, whatever fans are trying to bring fans in, MORE POWER TO YOU!!!

Take the ABA's 40 teams, the NIFL's 24 clubs (at last count), their 10 season ticket holders and merge them into a mega-league.

Maybe 4 of the teams would finish the season. And 6 fans would care ...

[Red Zone]

I was a TV/radio/newspaper guy too and they had no CHOICE but to listen to what I said.



I don't want to be accused of climbing on the "down with noize bandwagon" but that comment strikes a chord with me. Having been in the media at one time and have an occasional job with a local radio station, your statement is partially true. People do have the choice of not reading an article, not listening to comments on the airwaves, not believing what a reporter reports or completely disagreeing with what they report. There are some reporters (I'm not putting you in this category) that don't get all the facts of a story and either print it or air it without crucial information, therefore, misleading the fans. To think that fans have to "listen to what they say" is pure arrogance. The reporters are not part of the story - they report it. When reporters think people tune in a game or read an article about a game because of who the reporter is, then they are led to believe they are the game and not reporting on the game (Dick Vitale is an example). The great broadcasters cover the big games which we would tune into for the most part anyway. They have a way of personalizing the game for us.

[AllAces]

...if I were on the outside looking in on this conversation, I would tend to beleive the guy who is geographically there and deep on the inside about the ownsership, etc than I would someone who has probably never even spoke with anyone involved, thats all.

You are mistaken there. You are not objective. You do not even consider the possibility of anything negative about the Guard. That is what makes you a fanatic. But it does not make you a reliable source of objective information. Additionally, I would interpret "deep on the inside about the ownership" as having an agenda...

Revel in this though. You are going to have so much more fun at Guard games than any of us (the ones that aren't cancelled)! Good luck this year! I'll say it for you - GO GUARD!

[xball44]

The reality is I am much more familiar than you with the Guard's front Office. I was on the Staff of a team in the NIFL last season. We played home and away games with Fayetteville. When Fayetteville traveled to us, they were short eight pairs of player pants. One of their guys played in Dockers (I am not making this up). At their place, everything was mediocre at best as it related to running a professional organization (yes, the departed GM).

On a positive, the Crown Coliseum is one of the finast in all of indoor football.

[UNLogger]

Pipe down?

My post started with "Don't let nobody kill your fandom no matter what..." and all of a sudden I'm the bad guy.

I have no beef with Friedlander personally so I will censor any more comments regarding the thruth about preeths last few posts about his stance on the Guard so I'm off the hook.

Once again, as I said before--you fans out there putting asses in seats, more power to you--don't let the haters and complainers (names withheld to appease certain folks) bring you down just like King didn't let it bring HIM down, that's all....

You guys have a wonderful weekend. If you're ever in the 'Ville, look us up, we'll welcome you with open arms and a bottle of beer and from what I'm told, the Hooters girls this season at my tent. SWEET!

You plan on puttin' that tent up even when 3/4 of your opponents don't show up?

UNLogger
Aaron

[rams80]

I was a TV/radio/newspaper guy too and they had no CHOICE but to listen to what I said.

Friendly offer here....on a serious note....When anyone up here sees a positive article on the Guard grace the COVER of our sports section here, be SURE to alert me because I'd love to see it.

This isn't anything against Brett. The times Brett and I have hung together, he seems cool to me...and he certainly is a good writer. This may even be geared more towards the editor or owner to begin with, so this isn't even so much about Brett anyhow.

My point is, if you're gonna stick every POSITIVE thing on page 10 about the Guard, then stick every negative thing there too.

Peace

So you guys also are victims of the Eminian school of journalism.

[billm75]

how many years do you think they need? Before you answer this, keep in mind, that their health has been declining over the past few years.

That's not a question I could even hazard a guess for. I'm just saying that ANY league, no matter how small and how many bumps or potholes, or detours or whatever they hit along the way, is going to need time to blossom into a solid venture.

There's not a league in existence today that didn't have it's share of troubles and shady dealings and bad people trying to derail their agendas. It's life. People suck and they try to make everyone else suck the same.

HOWEVER....To continually nitpick a league and to continually focus on the negative (even if there is a 100:1 negative to positive ratio) only adds to the burden of those who wish to see that league succeed.

It's extremely easy to put someone down and to find fault with what they're doing. (easier still, when many of their associates add faults by the basket full every day). The hard thing to do is to focus on the positive. What have any of us to gain by this league, or any other league for that matter, failing miserably?

You want them to do better? You want them to change things? Help put butts in seats and help shed some light on the fact that they even exist. Sports team ownership is not a cheap venture, it takes money to make money. Help them by buying tickets and telling friends about them. Suggest to the ownership within the league what you think they need to do to be more successful. I bet you many of them are willing to listen. I would even venture to say that many of them are willing to accept any assistance you're able to offer them.

www.stingersnest.com is not out there for the team's owner. It's out there for the Team players and hopefully the growing fan base. I want this to be successful because I want indoor football in Columbia for a long time. I'm shelling out money from my own pocket for the site, donating my own time to maintain the site, and I've even printed up season schedules to give out at the upcoming Fan Fest.

The stingers didn't ask me to do this, yet, I'm doing it because I am able to do at least that much. All I ask for in return is some press releases and information about the team when it's released for stingers nest supporters.

So....to hate the league is simple, to find a way to ignore their faults and attempt to assist the teams that are trying to build a better league is the only way to insure success, and maybe one day, a league you can be more proud of than ashamed of.

GO STINGERS!!!!!!

[Lets Play Football]

Dude, I normally would stay out of a thread like this, but seriously, your drinking to much magic koolaid...

Your talking about known con men (and women), thieves, liars, crooks and basically bad people. Not just not good people, BAD people...

Support who ever you like, but dont try and convince anyone that has been around while that there is any hope of change, positive within, or any sort of honor embeded in this evil.

Many of us on this board appreciate the teams, organizations and in fact this board, all that goes towards putting forth a good (honest) effort and trying to validate the sport.

Every time the NIIIFFLLL pulls a bone head or dishonest move, it devalues all teams and leagues.

Sorry to get off on a rant, but enough is enough... push back from the Koolaid...

FYI Brett is a good reporter and did a ton of due dilgence before speaking out...

[preeths]

billm75, you need to know that some on this board have followed the indoor game and the people in it from day one. Others have been actively involved in ownership, front offices and even on the field. We speak from experience and personal knowledge of the situations.

You can support whatever you want, but when we see things in an organization such as unpaid players and employees, known con men being able to set up shop in three different NIFL cities, illegally restraining others from conducting business, and a host of other offenses, we will speak out. We only want to make sure others are not hurt.

Yes, there are good people involved in the NIFL. We recognize that. That doesn't mean we overlook all the misdeeds and those who are harming indoor football by their reckless, and sometimes illegal, acts.

[billm75]

Fair enough, and I realize you have every right to continue to point out their misdeeds, flaws, scams, etc.

All I'm saying, or at least trying to say, is that a newcomer to the sport is going to have a very hard time trying to support the teams and the league when all they read is the negative. I'm sure you can agree with that much.

There's got to be SOME positive things happening that could be debated from time to time, hasn't there? ;)

Anywho....I think I need to bow out of this discussion, as I'm not as familiar with the league and am in the minor-minority here. I'll go start a thread about something else, and see if I can keep it on topic for more than 3 replies. :)

[preeths]

I know where you're coming from. You're just excited to have an indoor football team to support. Remember, we're all here because we enjoy the game, too. There are positive things happening in the sport. In fact, I'd say there is more positive than negative, overall, though unfortunately that's not the case within each league. Some of the negatives are so unnecessary and have clouded the sport in so many areas, that it's time the light of day shines on them to get them exposed, and hopefully eliminated, sooner rather than later so this sport can grow to its full potential.

[finatic]

i know where everyone is coming from on here....guard fans do your thing...stinger fanz we are going to do ours.....i'm involved with the columbia stingers for one reason and one reason only....the several players that played with charleston last year......i love this game and it is fun, but being involved with the front office of the defunct sandsharks opened my eyes to what so-called owners can do. i saw money and people dissapear after the first couple games.....i knew football there was doomed, but we still supported the PLAYERS. so as for tony pewonski and the front office...i can care less......what they do is their business......i want this team to be successful, but after i've seen the things i've seen.....nothing will surprise me.

[preeths]

A timely article:
http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/sports/16878310.htm

[tony-o]

Paul, I didn't know you want to South Carolina for college.

What's strange is that they didn't mention that Marquette Smith is now the head coach for the new team in Kissimmee, the Osceola Ghostriders. However they had enough room to mention he was a fifth round pick by the Carolina Panthers, something quite irrelevent to the story.

[ncxcstud]

From the State article..

“I got hustled. He hustled me like he hustled everything else,” said Smith, now the coach of the Osceola Ghostriders (formerly Kissimmee) in the World Indoor Football League. “I didn’t get anything in writing.”\

I guess you breezed over that paragraph huh? lol...

[tony-o]

From the State article..

“I got hustled. He hustled me like he hustled everything else,” said Smith, now the coach of the Osceola Ghostriders (formerly Kissimmee) in the World Indoor Football League. “I didn’t get anything in writing.”\

I guess you breezed over that paragraph huh? lol...
Haha, yeah I did.

[ncxcstud]

That's cool, i'm new to the sport and the league as well. I'm excited, though I have to admit...the State's decision to print that article at this time doesn't sit well with me. I'd like to see a professional team in the columbia area do well for once.... The bombers left to greenville (now the Drive) and the Inferno will be in Lexington (closer to me but still) in two years. It just doesn't seem right that the first major article written about the team deals with the owners past problems.

Should the article have been written? Sure. It should have been written just a few months ago, not 1 week before the opening game..

[Red Zone]

By the State choosing to run the article now almost tells me that the paper has skepticism about how the Stingers will be run. I will commend Joseph Person, the reporter, for doing his homework and interviewing people with inside knowledge. The article sounds like he took a line from Fox News Channel, "we report, you decide." I just hope that we, the fans and supporters of a Columbia team, don't get burned like others have in the past. For those of you doing work for the Stingers for free (even though you're not actually affiliated with the team), you are to be commended.

[finatic]

well i'm gonna do what i can to have fun and bring a fanclub to the stingers....like the saying goes, "forgive, but never forget".........the article says he's paid up in greensboro...as for the others that say he owes them money, mr.smith, it was stupid for you to do anything relating to business without signing documents or a contract....so it's he said, she said type stuff.....i can promise you that i know one man that is on the staff that would not be there if this was'nt going to be a firm deal....and i bet he has paperwork.

[preeths]

Bobby Jackson?

[xball44]

As for Pewonski's past, let me be specific re: Kissimmee. The new owners of the team (Osceola owned by LBI executives) paid players, under no obligation, past due game checks in excess of $30K, a very classy move. This was money Pewonski owed, and essentially robbed the players. Pewonski also stiffed doctors, rehab facilities, etc. he is a piece of garbage, as evidenced by his slovenly appearance.

[nksports]

I'd say Columbia has been given fair warning.

[finatic]

read the article....pewonski has paid up in greensboro. as for players, screenprinting co., and coach smith....they have nothing to fall back on. i'm not taking up for anyone, but in business you must get signed documents and signed contracts.....smith did'nt and does'nt have that....that is his mistake...if he was hustled, maybe he learned a lesson. coach miller states that he has been paid in full and so far everyone else is being or have been paid. what may happen in the future? who knows....but as of now things are ok.....the colonial center would not have let pewonski start a team here if he had lawsuits pending....as i said before, right now it's he said she said......pewonski is clear of lawsuits, but will he turn on columbia? time will tell......and these are the days of our freakin' lives...

[UNLogger]

read the article....pewonski has paid up in greensboro. as for players, screenprinting co., and coach smith....they have nothing to fall back on. i'm not taking up for anyone, but in business you must get signed documents and signed contracts.....smith did'nt and does'nt have that....that is his mistake...if he was hustled, maybe he learned a lesson. coach miller states that he has been paid in full and so far everyone else is being or have been paid. what may happen in the future? who knows....but as of now things are ok.....the colonial center would not have let pewonski start a team here if he had lawsuits pending....as i said before, right now it's he said she said......pewonski is clear of lawsuits, but will he turn on columbia? time will tell......and these are the days of our freakin' lives...

WOW! So because the victim made a mistake its ok for Pewonski to hustle people? That is the equivalent of a woman being raped and asking for it because she showed cleavage. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I thought that way.

And clear of lawsuits? I am no genius but the fact he has liens against his company means he LOST lawsuits and will eventually get caught by those if he doesn't pay them which he stated he would never pay the larger one.

Seriously, your willingness to excuse criminals of their bad behavior while blaming the victim is truly scary. Indoor football, any football isn't worth compromising my morals that much.

UNLogger
Aaron

[xball44]

Days of our freakin' lives? Kinda speaks for your life or lackof.

Good luck with Jaba the Hut.

Oh, by the way, SMG is the largest operator of Arena's in the world. They have a lien against Pewonski. The Coliseum Director in Columbia did not do his homework.

[preeths]

I have to agree with UNLogger, your callousness amazes me. Being a fan is one thing, shrugging your shoulders when people are hurt, and even going to far as to blame the victims, is another.

.....the colonial center would not have let pewonski start a team here if he had lawsuits pending....as i said before, right now it's he said she said......pewonski is clear of lawsuits, but will he turn on columbia? time will tell......and these are the days of our freakin' lives...

No, it's not he said-she said. Pewonski has already lost at least two suits, hence the liens.

[nksports]

If this happened one time and in one place and the remainder of his teams were successful, TP's excuses could possibly pass muster.
Fact is it happens over and over and over and over again.
The fact that Carolyn Shriver and company keep giving him franchises shows the league is an accomplice in his scams. The fact that the league does it multiple times with people like TP, Howard Wiener and all his aliases, Lamunyon and so on, shows either a complete lack of business sense or complete corruption — I'll let you all decided which it is.
If the venue management has just found out about all this and hasn't taken action, then a change in venue manager might be in order. If all of this goes down the tube, the venue manager probably will be changed. This might have been the last venue that hasn't heard of the NIFL, so they didn't get a chance to send TP to the nearest horse barn.

Here endeth the rant.

"What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun."

Ecclesiastes 1:9 (NIV)

[mrinsideto-u]

If this happened one time and in one place and the remainder of his teams were successful, TP's excuses could possibly pass muster.
Fact is it happens over and over and over and over again.
The fact that Carolyn Shriver and company keep giving him franchises shows the league is an accomplice in his scams. The fact that the league does it multiple times with people like TP, Howard Wiener and all his aliases, Lamunyon and so on, shows either a complete lack of business sense or complete corruption — I'll let you all decided which it is.
If the venue management has just found out about all this and hasn't taken action, then a change in venue manager might be in order. If all of this goes down the tube, the venue manager probably will be changed. This might have been the last venue that hasn't heard of the NIFL, so they didn't get a chance to send TP to the nearest horse barn.

Here endeth the rant.

"What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun."

Ecclesiastes 1:9 (NIV)

Days of our freakin' lives? Kinda speaks for your life or lackof.

Good luck with Jaba the Hut.

Oh, by the way, SMG is the largest operator of Arena's in the world. They have a lien against Pewonski. The Coliseum Director in Columbia did not do his homework. XBALL44, can you send the smg info to the arena and smg regional office? that might stop TP and his criminal act's.

[baydaddy77]

By the State choosing to run the article now almost tells me that the paper has skepticism about how the Stingers will be run. I will commend Joseph Person, the reporter, for doing his homework and interviewing people with inside knowledge. The article sounds like he took a line from Fox News Channel, "we report, you decide." I just hope that we, the fans and supporters of a Columbia team, don't get burned like others have in the past. For those of you doing work for the Stingers for free (even though you're not actually affiliated with the team), you are to be commended.

Well, it took four months but they finally wrote something. I sent most of the newspaper links and Paul's (Go Gamecocks!) contact info to The State in mid-November. While I would have liked to have seen a little more hard hitting, at least people and sponsors are warned about TP. It appears that Ron Morris (The State) actually held on to my email and passed the info on.

On a side note, I took my wife and our 3 year old to the Fanfest on Saturday. Many of the players walked right up to us making a serious attempt to interact with the fans. The crowd was somewhat disappointing, probably about 60-75 people and that was with the Colonial Center sending out an email alert to all of their emial newsletter subscribers mid week). I plan on being there for the kickoff next week to get a count of the attendance

[phydeaux72]

"What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun."

Ecclesiastes 1:9 (NIV)

Here's another version of that, my favorite translation:

"What was will be again.
What happened will happen again.
There's nothing new on this earth.
Year after year it's the same old thing."

Ecc. 1:9 (The Message)

[AllAces]

UNLogger - You beat me to it. Blaming the person that was conned because they were stupid enough to get conned seems like a very archaic and uncivilized moral stance. That way of thinking has no place in our society.

I know it has been addressed, but I had to put my thoughts in.

[finatic]

fact is we can't deny what he did....i don't agree with ripping people off, i heard about the allegations and we are being told everything has been taken care of by him....i don't agree with not paying players, coaches, etc. but in business you get signed documents and cover all your bases.....i bet now coach smith won't coach anywhere without proper documentation.....i feel bad for him, but without legal documents...what can he do? and i have seen rip-offs in charleston, and it frustrates me...tony pewloski may do it in columbia, but i don't care nothing about him.....i support the players.

[Lets Play Football]

Dang You Guy's for Sucking me into this Thread,,,,,,,, ;-)

Finatic.... call me naive... but I would still like to believe that looking a man in the eye and shaking hands is better then any contract or paper work that anyone can produce. That is the way honorable people still do business.

TP, CG, CS and the entire NIFL bunch are not honorable people. Time and history will show they continue to do the same things, just in new communities year after bloody year.

I totally hear you about supporting the players... but who is going to support the players family when he gets hurt and does not have insurance?

Support the players, yes, but how can you support a organization that puts players at risk by playing games back to back and often with poor equiptment on poor playing fields.

The only reason more lawsuites are not filed against these guys is for $200 bucks a game, you can't afford the attorneys to go after them.

This board is a great forum for all that is to discuss about minor league sports, but unfortunatly it is the train wreck known as the NIFL that draws the most attention, why is that? Because year after year none of us believe they can keep doing what they do... we used to "hang out" looking for positive change... now we just "hang out" to see the next train wreck....

Hang in there, do what you see fit, but just know that history will show that the NIFL is not about to do right in your community....

[AllAces]

fin - you are in jeopardy of losing some major credibility. You make it sound like a head coach losing $40,000 is a good life lesson and it's his own fault. But, then you say you support the players.

But, if I apply your logic; the players are just as much to blame for not getting paid as the coach. Maybe they didn't play with a contract because they were glad to be playing and trusted that they would at least get paid. Or, maybe they had a contract that TP didn't honor. But, it's still their own fault for not forking out money for a lawyer so they could sue him for their money.

I hope you forget to lock your car one day and someone steals it. Then, since you didn't lock your car, you would have no one to blame but yourself. Or, what if a loved one is raped after being drugged at a party - would that be her own fault for drinking?

Bottom line - the coach made an error in judgment in thinking he could trust TP without a contract. However, TP is FULLY accountable for his actions. Millions of people work jobs without contracts. If the employer intends not to pay the employee, they have a legal responsibility to terminate the employment before the worker earns the pay - even without a document that says that.

Coach Smith has a legitimate suit. It's up to him if it is worth it to pursue. But, either way TP is a dirt bag conman (now and forever) if the allegations are true. And what he did to the coach, I can guarantee he did to the players.

[AllAces]

I do not honestly wish bad things for anyone, including finatic. I was trying to personalize Coach Smith's situation. To him, this is not a business deal gone bad, its food off his table for his family. It is the same way for the players that don't get paid (trust me when I say I know a little bit about this...).

For him not to get paid for work he performed or players to not be paid for putting themselves at great risk, all so that TP could make more money, is nothing short of criminal - and its very personal to the victims. Just like if your car was stolen or your sister raped.

If an NIFL owner gets conned by the league, that’s bad business. Employees are not in business, they are employed to survive. There is a distinct difference!

[preeths]

TOUCHE! Exactly what I've been trying to say.

Notice how many negative "insiders" have reared their ugly heads stemming from positive posts about trying to drum up support by enthusiastic fans. All suggestions about me not being able to be objective--once again--are based on a guy who--once again--has never met the person (me) he is judging. At LEAST when I judge said reporter, team, etc I have SOME REAL interaction with them.

Suddenly these guys know all about me--LOL

But that's the thing. This isn't personal. It isn't about personalities at all. It is about truth and fiction, right and wrong. In fact, your reliance on one party is precisely what draws your objectivity into question. You seem intent on ignoring public record, documented evidence, and even court orders, when choosing whom to believe, simply because you know the other side, and he talks with you.

To be quite honest and blunt, guardnoize, I don't think many on here care about you personally one way or the other. I don't intend for that to sound mean, only you're just another fan on here. What people respond to is the ideas and positions you take. I doubt anyone knows all about you or cares to. That's not why they're here. If you take a stand of moral ambivalence or one based upon "inside information" contradicted by verifiable fact, you can expect opposition regardless of whom you are.

[JackDiesel]

read the article....pewonski has paid up in greensboro. as for players, screenprinting co., and coach smith....


The Greensboro Coliseum is PAID-UP. They need to ask the photographer, stat keeper, the guys working the down markers (just a little side note by the end of the season they where pulling guys out of the stands to work the yard markers for a free T-shirt), and others whether or not they where paid.
They also need to ask the Greensboro Coliseum if they will renew his contract after next year!!! I already know the answer to that question and I think the rest of you do too.

[finatic]

in a perfect world a handshake and looking a man in the eye would, and i agree, should be enough to have a deal....but thats not how it is. example, we had someone invest around $75,000 to the sandsharks owners...did'nt get any reciept, paperwork, contract, documents, anything....3 games later the season is over and everyone skips town. it was'nt right that he got ripped off, and i don't think anyone has the right to rip anyone off over anything, but, come on.....that is alot of money.....there was a way he could've at least protected himself. GET SIGNED DOCUMENTS AND PROOF....HE HAD NOTHING, BUT $75,000 LESS IN HIS BANK ACCOUNT.

there should be no rapes, murders, robbery, shootings, drugs, stabbings, but it happens. everyday. everyday in the business world someone is ripping someone off....i don't agree with it, but it happens. go deposit your paycheck for the next 3 weeks without getting proof of deposit, shake the tellers hand and say thats good enough....pay a bill and shake someones hand without getting a reciept.....sooner or later it will bite you in the backside.

i don't agree with what happened...i heard all about it. we were ripped off in charleston, i'm not happy but it happened. i think these guys should go after their money....what i was trying to say was anyone that plays in any league and for any owner.....cover your ace.....don't take any promises or handshakes.....get all your bases covered. take all neccessary precautions when conducting business.....thats all i was saying....sorry you guys think i don't have any morals.....but if i loaned anyone of you $500, you better bet your ass i'm gonna get proof.

[finatic]

and to comment on allaces comment on me thinking the players were at fault for not getting paid....yes they were to a degree.....when a player joins an NFL team....does he approach the owner or coach and say," you guys promise to pay me 5 million a year, right?" and shake hands on it.......no, they are smart enough to get SIGNED DOCUMENTS CALLED CONTRACTS AND THEY SIT DOWN WITH ALL INVOLVED PARTIES TO DISCUSS THEIR MONEY.

i'm not saying that they should be ripped off, but then again cover yourself...i don't care if it's flag football if you are told you will be paid $5.00 per game, somebody will show me a document, and we both will sign it.

in a perfect world, allaces, yes a handshake and looking someone in their eyes should be enough, but you and i both know that this world is far from perfect and so is this league and tp.

[Sykotyk]

I think the overriding issue is morality, not legality. Just because you can, doesn't make it right.

Defending an immoral man just because he's legally clean doesn't make him any better. It just means he's a conman. That's what they do.

Sykotyk

[preeths]

I think the overriding issue is morality, not legality. Just because you can, doesn't make it right.

Defending an immoral man just because he's legally clean doesn't make him any better. It just means he's a conman. That's what they do.

Sykotyk

Excellent summation. I think some of it is about legality, but without signed documents, it is more difficult to prove, though not impossible. Also, some of the amounts are small enough that they aren't worth pursuing if it costs a lot of time, money or effort.

[akrizman]

...but if i loaned anyone of you $500, you better bet your ass i'm gonna get proof.

Let's take this analogy a little further.

Let's say I asked you for $500. Before you lend me the money, you do a little research and discover a dozen other people that I borrowed money from. They tell you that I refuse to pay them back and there's nothing they can do about it because they didn't get a receipt.

You agree that it was immoral for me to scam all those other people's money, but it's partially their fault for being naive.

So as long as I give you a receipt, you wouldn't hesitate to loan me the money?

[sportsfan27]

As someone who has delt with TP on an arena level and with the NIFL and failed teams I can tell you that the players and coaches, operational staff, equipment manufacturers, venues, and everybody else involved in his teams will never get a dime. TP doesn't own the teams personally. He establishes limited liabilitiy corps. and when they go bad he walks away. He has no remorse for what he dose. He lies constantly, and claims that everybody else failed at what they were doing. CS goes along with the program because he's one of the few NIFL owners who has a little capital to start up a franchise. They are all a bunch of crooks and con artists. Think of all the names of those who have been involved in minor league sports over the past few years. Shiver, Pewonski, Terry, Waronker, Weiner, Newman, Howell etc., etc. Thats the ABA, NIFL, EIFL WHA2. Look into their pasts. It makes you want to take a shower.

[AllAces]

Fin - I think we agree in principle about how things should be. And we agree that they are not. Where we disagree is your feeling that the perpetrator of this crime (i.e. fraud, etc.) should be forgiven out of hand because the victim was stupid.

There are a lot of people out there who are not as intelligent as you seem to be. Does that mean we, as a society, allow them to be victimized by the scam artist? Instead of accepting that as status quo, we should be outraged and, as a group, do whatever we can to show that this is not acceptable. Including warning those in a new venue of his real past. You taking your stance that he was entitled to steal because the victim was stupid only serves to allow him to reach more victims.

I believe the vast majority of coaches and players are fairly intelligent people. But, not many of them left behind a career in rocket science to pursue their dream of earning $200 per game, if they are selected to play. Those who are indifferent to these people being victimized brings out some strong emotions in me.

Players are eager people. I respect that. But that eagerness can allow someone like TP to take advantage of them.

Coach Smith learned a lesson. But, where is the outrage that someone stole from him?

I'll let you have the last word on this (from me at least...).

[finatic]

for the last time...i don't support ripping someone off....but, if you are STUPID enough to allow yourself to be....then so be it. and if i played football and did'nt get paid, i would quit. i was told greensboro players played half season with no money....i respect that from them being that i am a fan and they played for the fans to enjoy the game....but i would've had to walk away because fan support does'nt pay the bills.....

[Red Zone]

I think some of the guys (not just Greensboro, but players in general), do play for the love of the game. A lot of them play play with the hopes of getting to the next level though. Playing without pay is a sacrifice they make to get to the next level. You can't make plays and get video tape if you're not on the field and that's how some of the players feel throughout the world of indoor football. As long as players are willing to make that sacrifice and play without pay, owners will continue to screw them.

[sportsguy12]

I think some of the guys (not just Greensboro, but players in general), do play for the love of the game. A lot of them play play with the hopes of getting to the next level though. Playing without pay is a sacrifice they make to get to the next level. You can't make plays and get video tape if you're not on the field and that's how some of the players feel throughout the world of indoor football. As long as players are willing to make that sacrifice and play without pay, owners will continue to screw them.

I think the players see greener pastures ... thinking if I'm seen, then I can move up. I think that's a bit of the owners brainwashing them with lofty goals and unrealistic expectations.

[AllAces]

It seems that we have set the bar pretty low about owners.

Not all owners are money grubbing villains trying to rip off the poor players and coaches so they can make a profit. It's sad that that is what we expect.

Many of the owners have integrity and respect for the players and coaches and pay them what they are owed - without any problems. That should be what we expect of every owner as a minimum.