Wayne County Rumble homeless?

[ChampionOfSteel]

Today is Saturday, March 3rd.

What's the status as of today in regards to Wayne County's move to The Arena Complex in Summit County?

Can this timeline realistically happen? Will the league shrink to 13 teams? Can the CIFL redo its schedule after having a dispersal draft of Wayne County players before the league's March 17th opener?

http://home.columbus.rr.com/cfrankings/joke.jpg

I thought it was standard operating procedure that each team would have something in writing saying a facility deal with a certain seating capacity is locked up well before the schedule was written. What's up with that? Who in the CIFL management ranks dropped the ball on this one?

[creativelysain]

There is no uncertainty. They are moving to the Arena Complex of Summit County. That is there new home.

[Sykotyk]

See, CoS, you just can't follow a-to-b.

They're in Summit County at the Arena Complex in Tallmadge. They're in the process of changing over their website to be the Summit County Rumble. The team couldn't have a lease until the venue could tell them how many it could seat. When that came back negative, and a new arena in Wooster for 2008 was dead-in-the-planning stages, the team had no where to play. They tried Gault, but couldn't get a variance with the state to hold enough people to make it worth the shot.

Combine that with the fact that a team can't play at an 800 seat arena indefinitely, since the 2008 plans of moving into a 'proposed' arena, found the team looking for a new home.

Sykotyk

[ChampionOfSteel]

The team couldn't have a lease until the venue could tell them how many it could seat.

Oh I can definitely follow from a to b. I can also "smell" a detour attempt as well.

If the league's organizers couldn't get anything substantiated in writing from the Wayne County ownership group to signoff on seating capacity and arena location back in January (or whenever the schedule was made out), why were the Rumble included in the 2007 schedule? That's reckless. Wayne County had nothing in writing, just conjecture on the particulars of their venue. Wayne County didn't have their ducks lined up when the schedule was made out and the league's organizers went ahead and let them in regardless.

[rams80]

Oh I can definitely follow from a to b.

If the league's organizers couldn't get anything substantiated in writing from the Wayne County ownership group to signoff on seating capacity and arena location back in January (or whenever the schedule was made out), why were the Rumble included in the 2007 schedule? That's reckless. Wayne County had nothing in writing, just conjecture back then. Wayne County didn't have their ducks lined up when the schedule was made out.

Reckless is letting you watch the O'Reilly factor...

Or maybe you're making a mountain out of a molehill. They thought they had more seating than they actually did IN THE BARN THEY HAD. By the way, nice photoshop skills...

[ChampionOfSteel]

They thought they had more seating than they actually did IN THE BARN THEY HAD.

Didn't I just say that, Captain Obvious? Nothing in writing in regards to capacity and lease dates from the facility director.

This might have turned out to be a mountain had this Summit place wasn't available.

Reckless.

[creativelysain]

It's not reckless when the arena you are supposed to play in tells you one thing (an inflated capacity, and hopes of a new arena), that doesn't turn out to be true. I'd say they've done a great job of even getting a place to play, and a pretty good venue that should be well suited for indoor football.

If you're going to blame anybody on this matter, blame the Noble Arena people. They could have cared less about the team and league, therefore, they don't get a team there, Summit County does because they are excited about this opportunity.

[Malepig]

CoS has a point. I have rented arenas in the past and a seating assignment is part of the deal. There is something else to this that has not been answered. In fact how can you sell season tickets without knowing how many seats are in the building? That is how many season tickets did they sell? If they sold 2/3 of the building out I'm sure they would find a way to make it happen.

[ChampionOfSteel]

It's not reckless when the arena you are supposed to play in tells you one thing (an inflated capacity, and hopes of a new arena), that doesn't turn out to be true.

It is reckless when the league organizers do not require tendered documents in writing from each team's proposed arena facility directors that state what capacity/seating arrangement most importantly with diagrams/photos of what is being offered at what rates.

If this fire marshal issue came up after the facility director signed off on a tendered seating arrangement to the individual team owner, the facility owner would be in very hot water not the team/league owner. Yes, the team owner would have to play at another place, but the former facility director suddenly breaks his tail to find another place (maybe at his expense) for you lest he becomes financially liable for damages -- football jerseys with the Wayne County words on it have to be redone with some other city's name on it, etc. Helmet decals with WC on it no longer make sense, etc. Banners and various advertising done in vain in a city that can no longer accommodate the team. Player employer deals no longer hold since the team will be in a new town, etc. The list grows on rework issues. These are liability issues.

Getting seating arrangements (and parking arrangements ,etc) forces the person who is the seller (the facility director) to do his own homework (fire marshal issues) lest he becomes liable for failure to honor a contract.

Would you turn in your resignation to your current employer without getting a offer sheet in writing with signature(s) from your new employer saying you got a job? It's the same thing.

[Sykotyk]

Didn't I just say that, Captain Obvious? Nothing in writing in regards to capacity and lease dates from the facility director.

This might have turned out to be a mountain had this Summit place wasn't available.

Reckless.

With both arena, the ANIA and Gault, they had the availability for all the home dates. ANIA was the team's first choice. They were told it seated 800 and could get extra risers in to seat 1,500 - as a one year holdover until the ANIA completed it's 3,000 seat arena. When it became known that the arena greatly overestimates the number of seats they could squeeze in their venue, and the promise of a new arena for 2008 was cast down, the team had no viable option to stay in Wooster.

The team still, however, tried to stay in Wooster (Wayne County) for at least this season, knowing that without a larger arena as promised, would have no future beyond the '07 season.

So they went to the Gault, and again were given the same run around. First it was 3,000, then code only allowed a few hundred, and a one-time variance for each of the five home games still scheduled would take many months for the state to rubberstamp.

By that time, the team had no viable option in Wayne County. Had either venue panned out in their promises of seating capacity, future availablity of a new arena, or otherwise, they'd still be in Wooster.

Again, read, think, understand.

Sykotyk

[creativelysain]

Great explanation Sykotyk.

[ChampionOfSteel]

With both arena, the ANIA and Gault, they had the availability for all the home dates. ANIA was the team's first choice. They were told it seated 800 and could get extra risers in to seat 1,500 - as a one year holdover until the ANIA completed it's 3,000 seat arena. When it became known that the arena greatly overestimates the number of seats they could squeeze in their venue, and the promise of a new arena for 2008 was cast down, the team had no viable option to stay in Wooster.

The team still, however, tried to stay in Wooster (Wayne County) for at least this season, knowing that without a larger arena as promised, would have no future beyond the '07 season.

So they went to the Gault, and again were given the same run around. First it was 3,000, then code only allowed a few hundred, and a one-time variance for each of the five home games still scheduled would take many months for the state to rubberstamp.

By that time, the team had no viable option in Wayne County. Had either venue panned out in their promises of seating capacity, future availablity of a new arena, or otherwise, they'd still be in Wooster.

Again, read, think, understand.

Sykotyk

Nothing was tendered in writing.

Again, read, think, understand.

[Sykotyk]

it was agreed in principle. They couldn't sign anything until a seating capacity was determined.

Still, had they signed a lease and made it a stipulation in the lease that it'd hold 1,500 and didn't, the arena would be in breach of contract, and what purpose would that serve either party? You can't sign the final agreement until it's known what capacity you'll have for the venue.

Besides having a venue, without a new 3,000 seat arena being built in Wooster for 2008, the team would've been in Wooster for only one year. It was very apparant the arena would not be built, and thus kill any hope of ever having indoor football in Wooster for the long term.

The situation is, they went to Wooster knowing they'd lose money this year at the hope of 'holding over' until the 2008 season when a larger, more suitable venue was built to make money. With no hope of an arena, what purpose is there in knowing you'll lose money this year? At least in Tallmadge the team can start the first year in a 3,000+ seat venue.

Sykotyk

[Malepig]

The key is how many season tickets Wayne County sold if you want to find the real reason for the move.

[creativelysain]

No that's not the real reason. Although they weren't selling many, as stated in the newspaper, that wasn't the reason at all. They were going to play there regardless of the season ticket sales, but the arena couldn't accomodate the team properly.

[Malepig]

There are people who have more fingers and toes that Wayne County season ticket holders. Keep with the "excuses" but if the front office(which we have seen is inept) would have had a decent base of 500 season ticket holders they would not have moved.

[Tatonka]

I don't see how hard this is to understand...

There could not have been 500 season ticket holders, because the venues would not accomodate that many.

The explanation for the move was in the team's release, it's up on the website if you need to read it again.

[Tatonka]

The key is how many season tickets Wayne County sold if you want to find the real reason for the move.

Since when have you cared about the CIFL? Oh, I get it... someone is feeding you stuff to say...

[rams80]

Nothing was tendered in writing.

Again, read, think, understand.

I'm surprised that anyone agrees to any sort of deal with you.

Unfortunately, demands in writing may be counterproductive to getting a deal, and shoot, you could probably get around a scrap of paper if you really wanted too and had a good enough lawyer.

[Malepig]

Since when have you cared about the CIFL? Oh, I get it... someone is feeding you stuff to say...

I posted what you asked me to Tatonka.

[Tatonka]

I posted what you asked me to Tatonka.

WTF? You don't know me... I'm calling shenanigans on this liar...

[Malepig]

WTF? You don't know me... I'm calling shenanigans on this liar...

We know each other. But you also know that I know hardly any season ticket were sold and that was the reason more for the move

[Tatonka]

No, that wasn't the reason, and no, I don't know you either...

The one thing Wooster DID have going for it was the insistence of people on the street saying they love to go see a game... A. GAME.

Most did not spring for season passes, b/c they didn't know WTF it was, and we didn't have someone on the phone soliciting for season ticket sales b/c we never could get an accurate seating capacity from the arena.

Why am I bothering with parasites like you in the first place... I was there, I know what happened. I'm done with you...

[exit322]

Na'ah, I don't think the season tickets were a major factor. I mean, it didn't help any, but the lack of any possibility of an indoor-football-liveable arena was the killer.

The arena up in Tallmadge will hold an adequate number of fans. Because it's so late in the game, I don't think their attendance will be any good...but it'll be better than it would have in Wooster. This is the only chance the team has of being around long-term, and it's good they made the move (though I do wish it'd have happened quite awhile ago).

[Malepig]

If Wayne County would have been able to get 600-700 season tickets sold they would have found a way to stay. But instead a handful of season tickets makes it easy. they stillwon't get 800 at thier new arena. Shows another bonehead move.

[Sykotyk]

600-700 season ticket holders would've packed the arena and limited anybody else from going to games unless a season ticket holder didn't want to go and gave/sold away their tickets. That still leaves them stuck with income from only 600-700 fans.

Sykotyk

[Tatonka]

If Wayne County would have been able to get 600-700 season tickets sold they would have found a way to stay. But instead a handful of season tickets makes it easy. they stillwon't get 800 at thier new arena. Shows another bonehead move.

Hey clueless... 600-700 tickets would have oversold the arena's capacity by over 500 tickets. Read the release, we left b/c the arena told us 150.

[preeths]

Malepig will be taking a short vacation from the boards. He will be welcomed back when he can post honestly.

[ChampionOfSteel]

it was agreed in principle. They couldn't sign anything until a seating capacity was determined.

If that's the case you move on to another town. If the Wooster/Ice place people are dragging their feet on getting the fire marshal to showup, etc. and they cannot commit in writing for any reason to you in January (before January) when the schedule needs to be created, you look to another town.

Ideally the way it should be the league organizers need to require these paperwork issues filed with the commissioner before the schedule is made out.

[exit322]

Oh, I would hope they do that next year.

[ChampionOfSteel]

Oh, I would hope they do that next year.

Can I get a rep from the CIFL to respond to the above constructive criticism?

[Eric Spitaleri]

We didnt feel there was a need to have them "sign paperwork" saying what the capacity could be. They gave me their word saying atleast 1200 people could fit in there, possibly more, and to stick that out for one year and move into the new arena. It's not the Rumbles fault or our fault that things happened the way they did. Ramone did a good job trying to keep football in Wooster, but with this being minor league sports, playing in front of 150 fans is not financially possible. Now if anyone has a question on this matter, and they want to know the real truth from someone who knows what the situation is, email me, or call the league.

[Pounder]

Just a thought...

...it strikes me that someone in any league's brass usually tour a facility (or a proposed site, in some cases) before a team is awarded.

What happened here?

I know nothing of the details of this case.

[Eric Spitaleri]

That was done. I toured the arena a few times, playing football for one season there was do able until the new arena was done. We were told false statements for months.

[exit322]

That is true - the statement exactly from the arena there was that this year it would hold 1,500 (though we figured out 800-1000 pretty quick), and that the new one was being built pending the success of the team this year.

I don't foresee the league going for something like that again...just not worth the headache. People sometimes just can't be trusted, I guess.

[Tatonka]

Now if anyone has a question on this matter, and they want to know the real truth from someone who knows what the situation is, email me, or call the league.

Just to add... the real truth is already out in the form of an official release from the team. It's on the Rumble website at www.rumbleindoorfootball.com.

There is nothing more to it than that... Everyone expects conspiracies because we're so used to seeing lies and deception from other, less scrupulous leagues. It is what it is... the team moved because of seating capacity issues, end of story.

[ChampionOfSteel]

I don't foresee the league going for something like that again...just not worth the headache. People sometimes just can't be trusted, I guess.

Well, ...it's not really an issue of trust, it's an issue of follow-thru on cooperation with outside parties to the league. If someone makes a sincere, well-meaning and hardy verbal offer for their arena, eventually it comes down to the league rep saying "either poop or get off the pot" type of responses in regards to getting the arena to signoff in writing on the usage of their arena.

You can't control outside forces, but you can control on how to respond to them. The CIFL will know better next year by putting a ultimatum on arena terms (and other key issues too) for getting stuff in writing. If the folks can't sign-off by a drop dead deadline you look to a different town for your team(s) or suspend those team(s) for a year if there isn't enough time left to wait to get a league schedule together.

You would not buy a house without stuff in writing. Isn't any different here. Suzy Orman would agree with me here.

Does Wayne County have the words "Wayne County" across the chest of their game jerseys, or WC on the shoulderblade area on the jerseys? Will there be a sale of those items to the general public? Maybe some high school football programs in the area could buy them cheap and use them as practice jerseys? On the other hand, it would not be a big deal to me to see either WC or Wayne County still printed on the uniforms. Maybe something like that could be covered up creatively by a seamstress?

Oh, and one last thing...moo.

[Tatonka]

Nope, the uni's did not have WC or Wayne County on them anywhere. No worries...