Syracuse Bullies?

[Minor League Man]

There's a press release announcing them, plus they have an operational website:

http://www.syracusebullies.com

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the reason they're not on OSC yet because it's the old CEO who announced them?

Let's wait and see if Doyle & Co. accepts them...

[The Magician]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the reason they're not on OSC yet because it's the old CEO who announced them?

Let's wait and see if Doyle & Co. accepts them...

I would think so ...

Just like Rochester, Minnesota ...

Another team that may not quite have a basketball league to play in just yet.

[BreakersFan]

This team will be a big success - I mean, there is no other winter competition for basketball fans in Syracuse, NY

[bdaly]

They have a website, so that puts them ahead of many new teams. I agree that it'll be difficult to impossible to overcome the competition from SU. Syracuse is a small market, so it'll be hard to gain traction next to SU basketball. They'll have to keep costs very modest and perhaps sign some old SU players to make it work at any level.

[Fells]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot is a "Bullie"?

[teqkng]

actually I want to see if Joe Joe New Old actually collected the franchise fees fradulently into his own account and made promises to the ownerships he has no right to make. This could be a whole new chapter to this BAD soap opera...

er renminbi... (Chinese to me)

[WHAFAN]

Lets all guess about this new owner. He's a lifelong basketball fan, an asset to the community, an astute business owner, he hires minorities, helps old ladies cross the street, closes his eyes when a Victoria's Secret commercial is on TV, volunteers his time to the local orphanage, and most of all........he enjoys fast paced action, family fun at affordable prices. S*CK*R.........buy a vowel!!! Another knucklehead without a clue as to what a mess he's about to enter. Good Luck Chump!! Maybe Joe bought him an ice cream cone and promised big changes. There's a reason people in Syracuse have no winter sports competition...........no one wants to be there in the first place. I spent a week in Syracuse one night !!

[panchess]

..I thought at first this was one of Chuck's story lines. Some guy from Rochester wants to start a team in Syracuse, 100 miles away. Makes a lot of sense.

I grew up in the 'cuse, and have wondered more than once if a USBL team would work there, due to the Big East connection and the time of year. The weather still ain't exactly great there in April and May. There is AAA baseball (struggling for attendance, but they have been there all but six years of the last 110, and are in little danger of moving) and SU lacrosse during the spring, but no SU football or basketball, the big dogs in town.

ABA? Good luck. I am guessing the Onondaga County War Memorial is protected due to the new lease with the AHL Syracuse Crunch, and the place is generally pretty busy in the winter. If the Crunch owners were somehow behind the team, I would believe it would last more than two weeks.

Syracuse had a spring football team last year (the Soldiers) with a former SU player coaching and a few playing, and it folded before the season ended. No publicity, no money, and little fan base. They also had a soccer team (the Salty Dogs) until there were stadium and financial issues in 2004. I don't believe that they are coming back. They were in the league the Rochester Rhinos are in.

That leaves the State Fair Coliseum, Le Moyne College and local high schools. Teams die at the Coliseum. Le Moyne is pretty busy too, and a pro team playing in a high school isn't going to work in a mid-sized market like Syracuse. No credibility, which I am sure is a big issue with some of the current ABA teams playing in high school gyms (the Wigwam in Anderson, Indiana, a 9,000 seat high school gym, is an exception, though the CBA Alley Cats don't seem to draw either).

Syracuse doesn't have a venue like the Washington Avenue Armory in Albany, which is smaller, but not a college or high school facility that would be considered "amateur." The closest is the 2,800 seat State Fair Coliseum, which has awful sight lines and is colder than hell in the winter.

I'd give it three months.

[Sam Hill]

The plural of Bully would be Bullies, right?

[Chuck the Writer]

Central New York has a pretty poor track record when it comes to the CBA. Three times the CBA put franchises in the Utica-Syracuse area, and the results were the Syracuse Centennials (1976-77, did not finish season), the Mohawk Valley Thunderbirds (1978-79, relocated from Baltimore in mid-season, folded before season could be completed), and the Utica Olympics (1979-80, finished dead last in their division, folded after season ended).

[sportsguy12]

..I thought at first this was one of Chuck's story lines. Some guy from Rochester wants to start a team in Syracuse, 100 miles away. Makes a lot of sense.

I grew up in the 'cuse, and have wondered more than once if a USBL team would work there, due to the Big East connection and the time of year. The weather still ain't exactly great there in April and May. There is AAA baseball (struggling for attendance, but they have been there all but six years of the last 110, and are in little danger of moving) and SU lacrosse during the spring, but no SU football or basketball, the big dogs in town.

ABA? Good luck. I am guessing the Onondaga County War Memorial is protected due to the new lease with the AHL Syracuse Crunch, and the place is generally pretty busy in the winter. If the Crunch owners were somehow behind the team, I would believe it would last more than two weeks.

Syracuse had a spring football team last year (the Soldiers) with a former SU player coaching and a few playing, and it folded before the season ended. No publicity, no money, and little fan base. They also had a soccer team (the Salty Dogs) until there were stadium and financial issues in 2004. I don't believe that they are coming back. They were in the league the Rochester Rhinos are in.

That leaves the State Fair Coliseum, Le Moyne College and local high schools. Teams die at the Coliseum. Le Moyne is pretty busy too, and a pro team playing in a high school isn't going to work in a mid-sized market like Syracuse. No credibility, which I am sure is a big issue with some of the current ABA teams playing in high school gyms (the Wigwam in Anderson, Indiana, a 9,000 seat high school gym, is an exception, though the CBA Alley Cats don't seem to draw either).

Syracuse doesn't have a venue like the Washington Avenue Armory in Albany, which is smaller, but not a college or high school facility that would be considered "amateur." The closest is the 2,800 seat State Fair Coliseum, which has awful sight lines and is colder than hell in the winter.

I'd give it three months.

There actually is talk of reviving soccer in Syracuse. The problem was the Chiefs hogged all of the good dates. So expect Syracuse to return in the next few years.

[panchess]

..are actually a good example for this board. My understanding (we lived in Ithaca until 2003, but I haven't lived in Syracuse since the early 1990's) is that the Salty Dogs had good attendance and a local following, but very little capital and stadium issues with the Chiefs/SkyChiefs. As prime tenant with a lease from Onondaga County to operate the place, the Chiefs had no interest in making it easy for a soccer team to succeed.

As a result of the capital deficiency, they were doing things like taking the season ticket money to start the season. When a few games had rain and low attendance, the Dogs ran out of cash.

Having a turf field for soccer didn't help either. I think the County needs to break down and replace Griffin Field and Coyne Stadium with a football/soccer stadium of similar size to Alliance Bank Stadium. 10,000 or so.

[panchess]

The comments of the Bullies owner regarding G-Mac and the relative level of the ABA tell me he doesn't know what he is getting into.

Here is the link.

http://www.syracuse.com/articles/sports/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1171965372183560.xml&coll=1

[Chuck the Writer]

Or the best quotes from that link:

"Some players who don't want to leave the area can stay," he said. "It won't be competing because this is a bridge to the NBA.

"Last year, there were 12 players from the ABA in the NBA. A lot of players like Gerry McNamara wouldn't have had to go overseas to play. He wouldn't be in Bakersfield right now. He could have played for me. He could have stayed in Syracuse.

"We're just a step below the NBA."

Okay, first off...

WHICH TWELVE PLAYERS WENT FROM THE ABA TO THE NBA LAST YEAR?

The D-League had 16 call-ups and the CBA had 14 or 15 if I recall correctly. But there hasn't been an ABA call-up since Unca Joe reorganized the league in 2003. So who's shoveling the manure behind the bull-ies?

[zeke41]

I think Bullies is a perfect name for Syracuse, seems how they bullied the Orlando Aces from their original name - the Orange Men - which I felt was a relevant name for a Florida team. They don't even use the name anymore. They filed a lawsuit over it though! I must start making moves now to get the Aces to play Syracuse first game. That would be a classic first game - an instant rival!

[tbayz1]

This could be a potential rival for Buffalo and Rochester, cause ino when i go to the 'Backs games versus Rochester these teams dont like each other on the court but suprisingly alot of them know each other off the court, its funny one minute they're intense and about to kill each other and then oops games over lets chat and be friends again but when these two teams play they are some of the best bball games ive ever seen, plus this would help B-lo and Rochester as being another team in the region that wouldnt cost much for travel out that way, so if this franchise lasts and is sucessful it'd be cool for Buffalo and Rochester, but with SU in the same town and plays along the same time period that might hurt em, but if they get some former SU players, have a well run show, and dont play when theres an SU game going on(duh) they mite get a decent crowd and be a sucessful franchise

[panchess]

..the owner didn't say last year on ABA players in the NBA.

The D-League had more call-ups last year because their season is a month longer. This year, the NBA has been emphasizing the D-League much more than the CBA, with the result being no CBA call-ups. Perhaps the CBA has dropped a level, but I don't notice a huge difference in play from last season.

The Patroons couldn't recruit G-Mac because they didn't guarantee him playing time, and he felt the D-League would be a better path to the NBA.
He wouldn't play for a Scranton USBL team last season, what makes anybody think he would play for a Syracuse ABA team?

[sportsguy12]

I think Bullies is a perfect name for Syracuse, seems how they bullied the Orlando Aces from their original name - the Orange Men - which I felt was a relevant name for a Florida team. They don't even use the name anymore. They filed a lawsuit over it though! I must start making moves now to get the Aces to play Syracuse first game. That would be a classic first game - an instant rival!

if teams don't stand up for their trademarked names, what's the sense of trademarking anything. Syracuse didn't "bully" anyone. Orangemen might be good fit for a Florida team, but they are not allowed to use it. Had they had any common sense, they would have known that. Had they had any creativity, they would have come up with an original name, like Palm Beach Imperials. Bullies was also used by the former Atlantic City Boardwalk Bullies of the ECHL.

[panchess]

..require them to be defended.

If someone on Marshall Street in Syracuse opened a store named the Disney Shop, let's see how long they would be open before a group of lawyers from Orlando came knocking on the door. It wouldn't be long.

There was a coffee shop in Syracuse when I lived there named Federal Expresso. They got sued by FedEx, and lost.

[Minor League Man]

if teams don't stand up for their trademarked names, what's the sense of trademarking anything. Syracuse didn't "bully" anyone. Orangemen might be good fit for a Florida team, but they are not allowed to use it. Had they had any common sense, they would have known that. Had they had any creativity, they would have come up with an original name, like Palm Beach Imperials. Bullies was also used by the former Atlantic City Boardwalk Bullies of the ECHL.
If Syracuse still used the name, I'd see your point.

But they don't, so your point is?

[Pounder]

The Salty Dogs were drawing rather well (even after papering a bit of the house). They had a couple big problems:

(1) They were basically paying the rent for the baseball team.

(2) They actually paid the full amount of the USL-required "territory fee" to the Rochester ownership.

The group attempting to revive the Salty Dogs got the city to tweak the baseball team about the rent (supposedly). Supposedly, the problem is that Rochester wants another territory fee at full price. It's not chump change, but given hints of negotiation available, I think there is at least one more issue not revealed.

[sportsguy12]

If Syracuse still used the name, I'd see your point.

But they don't, so your point is?

but maybe someday they will go back. I'm sure there is still a lot of merchandise on shelves that they would not get royalties for if they left the name unprotected.

The bottom line is that it's protected. Any sports-knowledgeable person would know that (referring to the Orlando owners). Why would they not pick something else, like Citrusmen.

[Sam Hill]

If Syracuse still used the name, I'd see your point.

But they don't, so your point is?

From a column in SU's student newspaper:


Even though SU went all "Orange" two years ago, it still owns active trademarks on both Orangemen and Orangewomen. In fact, SU's director of news services, Kevin Morrow, says more than 300 licensees of paraphernalia that bear the old SU names still exist, so there's still money being made.

Now, I love Syracuse and the Orangemen as much as the next guy, but this all makes me wonder. The Syracuse Athletics Department wants nothing to do with Orangemen and has made that clear with its entire Orange branding campaign.

But then here's the university continuing to market and license SU products with Orangemen still on them.

So basically, SU is having its orange and slicing it, too.

"The Orangemen mark is a name that goes back more than 100 years," Morrow said about SU's sitting on the naming fence. "It's still a name that resonates with many of our alumni and many of our fans and the university sees no reason to give up its rights to that mark." (emphasis mine)

From the Central New York Business Journal:


Although SU officially changed the names of its sports teams from the Orangemen/Orangewomen to “The Orange” more than two years ago, the university still argues in the suit that its trademark on the Orangemen name needs protection.

The name is important to fans, even though it’s no longer in official use, says Kevin Morrow, SU spokesman. The university still actively licenses the Orangemen trademark to companies for production of apparel and other memorabilia.

“It’s a registered trademark we continue to protect,” Morrow says. “In the public’s mind, the name is very clearly associated with Syracuse University. We have fans and alumni who still feel a special attachment to the Orangemen name.”

The name has appeared on everything from toothbrush holders and beer steins to leather jackets and aprons, SU says in the suit. The suit also notes the university has used the Orangemen trademark for more than 100 years.

Want more?

[zeke41]

Syracuse didn't "bully" anyone. Orangemen might be good fit for a Florida team, but they are not allowed to use it. Had they had any common sense, they would have known that. Had they had any creativity, they would have come up with an original name, like Palm Beach Imperials. Bullies was also used by the former Atlantic City Boardwalk Bullies of the ECHL.


Aces is creative - don't you think? We simply wanted to be as relevant as we could to the area. Fans appreciate that! Besides...as has been stated - they aren't even called Orangemen anymore. So I should just trademark any name I want, and hope that someone tries to use it s I can sue them??? My point is this...were we hurting Syracuse, their fans, or their market in any way??? Hardly! Doesn't matter though. We're happy to be the Aces! Oh, and by the way...we aren't Disney. I appreciate you scaling us up and comparing us to a multibillion dollar company like Disney! Maybe Chuck can write up a story on the Mutibillion dollar Aces! :-)

[Chuck the Writer]

Aces is creative - don't you think?

Not really. The CBA had two teams in its history with "Aces" in their nicknames, the Wilkes-Barre Aces [1952-53] and the Scranton Aces [1979-80]. There was also the San Diego Wildcards [1995-96] and the Philadelphia Kings [1980-81], and the vaporware Northern Nevada Blackjacks. There were also two teams in the American Hockey League that were Aces - the Quebec Aces of the 1960's and the Cornwall Aces of I believe 1992-95.

We simply wanted to be as relevant as we could to the area. Fans appreciate that!

Right... this comes from a league where a franchise leaves the market to join another league, and Unca Joe snaps another team into that same arena and brands them with some confusing name - a la the Anderson Champions. Not buying it.

Besides...as has been stated - they aren't even called Orangemen anymore.

But the fact that they WERE the Orangemen, and have been known as that for over 100 years, still entitles them to protect their copyrights. It keeps unscrupulous merchants from manufacturing "knockoff" products using old trademarks.

Here's one example of what I'm talking about. The Washington Wizards were once called the Bullets. Just because they don't use the name "Bullets" any more doesn't mean that they lost the right to that trademark. They have the right to protect that trademark as part of their history and legacy, and to license that trademark for things like Mitchell and Ness throwback jerseys and the like. It's the reason why the Toledo Ice couldn't rename themselves the Toledo Rens - because the name "Rens" was trademarked by the old New York Rens, who were a traveling "black five" team similar to the Harlem Globetrotters or Harlem Magicians.

So I should just trademark any name I want, and hope that someone tries to use it s I can sue them???

Well, if you want to pay all the attorney fees and title searches and filing costs - and then you have to vigorously defend your copyright at all times - especially against ABA teams who would try to use your name despite your claims.

My point is this...were we hurting Syracuse, their fans, or their market in any way??? Hardly!

That's where you're wrong. It's one thing if you're going to call your team a nickname that is common among several different sports teams, both professional and amateur - Wildcats, Eagles, Panthers, Indians - but you can't call your team the Nittany Lions or the Hokies or the Hoyas or the Hilltoppers or the Salukis, etc. And forget about Ragin' Cajuns and Demon Deacons and Tar Heels while you're at it. It's another reason why many teams in professional sports went in the direction of unique adverbial nicknames like River Rats and Sound Tigers and Lock Monsters and ValleyDawgs and Cagerz.

And there's precedent to this as well. About a decade or so ago, the Canadian Football League tried to expand into American markets - and one of the American CFL cities was Baltimore. The team called themselves the Baltimore CFL Colts. And two weeks into the season, the NFL called them up and raised holy hell. The franchise was rebranded "Baltimore CFL Football Club" for the rest of the season, and then became "Baltimore Stallions" for their second and final year of existence. This despite the fact that the CFL also has a team called the Lions, just like the NFL does. So there is indeed precedent - even though the NFL did not have a Baltimore-based team called the Colts, they were still vigorously defending their trademark to avoid any confusion in the marketplace.

Oh, and by the way...we aren't Disney.

Good, because Disney is extremely defensive about their copyrights. I think the only things Disney can't copyright in terms of characters are Tinkerbell (I think that along with some of the Peter Pan characters are owned by the British children's hospital to which JM Barrie willed the proceeds) and Winnie the Pooh (the designs of the characters are Disney-related, but the characters themselves are owned by the Milne family).

I appreciate you scaling us up and comparing us to a multibillion dollar company like Disney!

It's not a comparison. It's more like some mom-and-pop restaurateurs opening up a coffee shop and calling it Federal Expresso - and then getting shut down by FedEx.

Maybe Chuck can write up a story on the Mutibillion dollar Aces! :-)

Right... I'll get on it about two weeks from never.

[zeke41]

I guess everyone here is from Syracuse, NY. Man...talk about feeling hated like Uncle Joe. I guess everything is relative...if it's not a matter within your inner circle that effects you personally, I guess there's no need to see the other person's point. At least we're not the only people struggling to find names to use and people to p*ss off. Lord knows that people might get the Orlando Orangemen confused with the Syracuse Orangemen, and that would wreck the lives of millions!

Anyway, I'll tell you this - Syracuse was real friendly about it in an email asking us to do a side-by-side story concerning the name 4 months before they filed a case against our team. Maybe they lost it when the realized how screwed up the recent history of the ABA is. What D-1 college would want to be attached to this madness?

No harm - no foul. We're the Aces now, and we haven't "FOLDED" like several people assumed would happen before the season started, and I'm very proud of that. What you Syracuse defenders don't understand is what treachery this fiasco caused for the Aces (they had to change A LOT 2 weeks before the season), and rather than inform the team of the discontent when they heard, they played nice until 2 weeks into the season and let the dogs out. How professional is that?

[The Magician]

If somebody gives the Orlando Aces a hard time about their current name ...

Just re-name the team to the Orlando Juice!

So when the Miami Tropics travel to O'Town ... They get thrown into "The Juicer" ... a la, they get "Juiced!"

Nothing like a cool glass of Tropical Juice to replenish after a sweet victory!

[Zeke, Check your pm's]

[zeke41]

Oh...they hate to lose to us. I heard their coach screaming at their team for like 20 minutes after we beat them at home. I felt bad for those guys. Of course, they came back and creamed us the next game by a whole lot (I choose to forget that game). But...nevertheless, we got our first franchise victory against them, nad thanks to them folding, we received our last one from them, too, as did the Imperials. Thanks Miami!

[The Magician]

This is what happens when you don't have a community "Name the Team Contest!"

Here we have another team ownership who has "Bullied" their way into the community and put themselves at a disadvantage before they even play a single game.

And better yet ... This team may not even be an 'official' team of the ABA for 2007-2008. Could be a team without a league???


'Bullies' Team Name Draws Protests
SYRACUSE, N.Y. - UPDATED - Thursday February 22, 2007 10:23 am

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0207/399630.html

Anti-bullying advocates are beating up on the name chosen for the new professional basketball team in Syracuse, N.Y. The Syracuse Bullies will play in the American Basketball Association beginning this fall. People who run anti-bullying programs are crying foul over the Bullies name. They say when children attend the games, they'll get the wrong idea that bullies are cool.

A Rochester businessman, Nicholas Fritts, tells Syracuse TV station WSYR that the team's name doesn't promote bullying and shouldn't raise concerns. The team's mascot is a muscle-bound bull.

But the director of one Syracuse group, Jenna's Foundation for Non-Violence, says the team name goes against everything anti-bullying educators are trying to get across to kids.

[Sam Hill]

You simply cannot do anything in this country anymore without someone getting upset about it and pitching a fit.

[rams80]

This is what happens when you don't have a community "Name the Team Contest!"

Here we have another team ownership who has "Bullied" their way into the community and put themselves at a disadvantage before they even play a single game.

And better yet ... This team may not even be an 'official' team of the ABA for 2007-2008. Could be a team without a league???


'Bullies' Team Name Draws Protests
SYRACUSE, N.Y. - UPDATED - Thursday February 22, 2007 10:23 am

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0207/399630.html

Anti-bullying advocates are beating up on the name chosen for the new professional basketball team in Syracuse, N.Y. The Syracuse Bullies will play in the American Basketball Association beginning this fall. People who run anti-bullying programs are crying foul over the Bullies name. They say when children attend the games, they'll get the wrong idea that bullies are cool.

A Rochester businessman, Nicholas Fritts, tells Syracuse TV station WSYR that the team's name doesn't promote bullying and shouldn't raise concerns. The team's mascot is a muscle-bound bull.

But the director of one Syracuse group, Jenna's Foundation for Non-Violence, says the team name goes against everything anti-bullying educators are trying to get across to kids.

Umm....any kid who gets life lessons from an ABA team has more problems than maybe becoming a bully.

[panchess]

..Joe Newman and company have to pay a royalty to the NBA for the use of the name "American Basketball Association." Why? Because the NBA acquired it when the leagues merged. It doesn't matter that the NBA doesn't use the ABA name anymore, they own it. Private property rights in the US are protected.

Google "Orangemen" and tell me what you come up with.