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sportsguy12
01-23-2007, 11:55 AM
So we've got possibly Fort Wayne and definitely Orem (hopefully called Utah).
Anybody heard anything about any other expansion cities?

Let's avoid ABA or CBA mutinies right now. Those teams can decide their own fates.

If Fort Wayne comes on board, maybe Rockford would follow. That would be a perfect marriage for the Bulls.

Down the line, they've got to get some southern cities to get the Florida Flame re-ignited. I don't see a lot of potential in Florida cities.

Maybe Breward, although they were more USBL. Tallahassee? Jacksonville? Pensacola? Tampa Bay? Those have been all minor league cities in the past.

Out west, the Reno area? Maybe, Las Vegas or Oklahoma City if the Hornets return to NO full-time.

bectond
01-23-2007, 03:43 PM
The guy that owns Tulsa, Fort Worth Albuquerque and Austin visited Reno, however I'm not sure if he was planning on an expansion team or looking to re-locate one of his existing teams.

I heard Des Moines will be joining next year and a group from Omaha is looking to join. Sarasota has an ownership group in place however the brand new arena that they planned on playing in has stop being built in mid-construction due to the builder going belly-up. I also read that Youngstown, Hoffman Estates, Laredo and Stockton ownership groups have formed and the Knicks and Celtics are planning on buying their own teams.

sportsguy12
01-23-2007, 03:50 PM
The guy that owns Tulsa, Fort Worth Albuquerque and Austin visited Reno, however I'm not sure if he was planning on an expansion team or looking to re-locate one of his existing teams.

I heard Des Moines will be joining next year and a group from Omaha is looking to join. Sarasota has an ownership group in place however the brand new arena that they planned on playing in has stop being built in mid-construction due to the builder going belly-up. I also read that Youngstown and Stockton ownership groups have formed and the Knicks and Celtics are planning on buying their own teams.

So that would create a league like this ... not ideal with 3 divisions but

Eastern
New York
Boston
Fort Wayne
Youngstown (Mahoning Valley)
Dakota
Sioux Falls

Midwest
Fort Worth
Tulsa
Arkansas
Austin
Idaho
Colorado
Orem (Utah)

Pacific
Stockton
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Bakersfield
Albuquerque

bectond
01-23-2007, 04:05 PM
West
L.A. moves to Ontario
Anaheim
Bakersfield
Stockton
Tulsa moves to Reno

Northwest
Idaho
Colorado
Sioux Falls
Bismarck
Orem

Southwest
Austin
Fort Worth
Laredo
Albuquerque
Little Rock

Midwest
Omaha
Des Moines
Hoffman Estates (causes Gary to be turned down again)
Youngstown
Fort Wayne

Southeast
Fort Myers (may come backin 07/08)
Duluth Ga
Sarasota (if arena is ever completed)
Biloxi
[open]- bobcats

Northeast
[open]- knicks
[open]- celtics
[open]-nets
[open]-sixers
[open]-Raps

sportsguy12
01-23-2007, 04:11 PM
Anybody got any thoughts ...


Eastern Conference
Atlantic
Newark (Nets)
Rochester (Raptors)
New York (Knicks)
Boston (Celtics)
Trenton (76ers)

Central
Fort Wayne (Pacers)
Youngstown (Cavaliers)
Rockford (Bulls)
Grand Rapids (Bucks)
Des Moines, Iowa (Pistons)

Southeast
Baltimore (Bullets)
Florida (Heat)
Gulf Coast (Magic)
Gwinnett (Hawks)
Norfolk (Bobcats)

Western Conference
Southwest
Fort Worth (Mavericks)
Austin (Spurs)
Okla City (Hornets)
Arkansas (Grizzlies)
Tulsa (Rockets)

Northwest
Orem, Utah (Jazz)
Colorado (Nuggets)
Sioux Falls (T-Wolves)
Dakota (Blazers)
Idaho (Sonics)

Pacific
Albuquerque (Suns)
Los Angeles (Lakers)
Anaheim (Clippers)
Bakersfield (Warriors)
Stockton (Kings)

bectond
01-23-2007, 04:19 PM
Washington will most likely keep Dakota as an affiliate, baltimore will never support a minor league team. if Washington does get an affiliate in Maryland it would be Upper Marlboro not Baltimore.

Minor League Man
01-23-2007, 04:29 PM
Keep in mind the Sonics might move to OKC next season.

With this in mind:

Eastern Conference
Atlantic
Newark (Nets)
Rochester (Raptors)
New York (Knicks)
Boston (Celtics)
Trenton (76ers)

Central
Fort Wayne (Pacers)
Youngstown (Cavaliers)
Rockford (Bulls)
Green Bay (Bucks)
Grand Rapids or Des Moines (Pistons)

Southeast
Norfolk (Bullets)
Florida (Heat)
Sarasota (Magic)
Gwinnett (Hawks)
Greensboro (Bobcats)

Western Conference
Southwest
Fort Worth (Mavericks)
Austin (Spurs)
Lafayette (Hornets)
Arkansas (Grizzlies)
Tulsa or Cypress (Rockets)

Northwest
Orem, Utah (Jazz)
Colorado (Nuggets)
Sioux Falls or Dakota (T-Wolves)
Dakota or Idaho (Blazers)
Idaho or Tulsa (Sonics)

Pacific
Albuquerque (Suns)
Los Angeles (Lakers)
Anaheim (Clippers)
Bakersfield (Warriors)
Stockton (Kings)

HKF
01-24-2007, 10:40 AM
Here's another team coming to the D-League.

Along with Fort Wayne, Des Moine, Utah and possibly Reno for next year.

http://www.themonitor.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=17528&Section=Local

sportsguy12
01-24-2007, 10:40 AM
Anybody got any thoughts ...


Eastern Conference
Atlantic
Newark (Nets)
Rochester (Raptors)
New York (Knicks)
Boston (Celtics)
Trenton (76ers)

Central
Fort Wayne (Pacers)
Youngstown (Cavaliers)
Chicago/Hoffman Estates (Bulls)
Grand Rapids (Bucks)
Des Moines, Iowa (Pistons)

Southeast
Biloxi, Miss (Blazers)
Florida (Heat)
Arkansas (Magic)
Gwinnett (Hawks)
Norfolk (Bobcats)

Western Conference
Southwest
Fort Worth (Mavericks)
Austin (Spurs)
Omaha (Grizzlies)
Laredo (Rockets)
Tulsa (Hornets)

Northwest
Orem, Utah (Jazz)
Colorado (Nuggets)
Sioux Falls (T-Wolves)
Dakota (Bullets)
Idaho (Sonics)

Pacific
Albuquerque (Suns)
Los Angeles/Ontario eventually (Lakers)
Anaheim (Clippers)
Bakersfield (Warriors)
Stockton (Kings)

SignGuyDino
01-24-2007, 12:51 PM
Rio Valley announced they're in.

sportsguy12
01-24-2007, 01:03 PM
Rio Valley announced they're in.

Laredo, but it should say RGV.

rams80
01-24-2007, 02:28 PM
I have my doubts about Omaha. Going toe-to-toe with both Creighton and Nebraska-Omaha strike me as a good way to lose money.

bectond
01-24-2007, 03:05 PM
Laredo, but it should say RGV.

McAllen? I heard a group from Laredo was forming to become the Spurs D-League affiliate. I wonder if the Laredo group will continue with its attempts or will this announcement kill it.

panchess
01-24-2007, 03:53 PM
..actually the right size of market for the CBA or NBDL. It is appearing, though, that the D-League is going to become more of a league where the teams are close to their parents. The expansion teams in LA and Denver this season, and Utah next season are good examples of the trend. Gary may appear as Chicago's and/or Indiana's farm team in the future.

The NBDL desperately wanted some experienced operators, so they took Sioux Falls, Boise and Bismarck in the league to get that kind of experience. Do they want expansion teams far away? Probably not so much. I assume McAllen (Rio Grande Valley) will be a Texas farm team.

The rumors that the Knicks and Celtics will buy their own teams (and maybe the Nets as the Brooklyn Kings) add to this a bit. NBA Commissioner David Stern said the D-League is close to a cluster in the Northeast. I assume that means the teams will be owned by NBA teams, in large part.

The CBA should develop a plan not for the Caribbean, but targeted small and mid-sized metropolitan areas in North America without huge college basketball teams. There are more than enough of them in the country still for a league like the CBA to survive and prosper.

Minor League Man
01-24-2007, 04:10 PM
Hidalgo's Dodge arena (home to the Killer Bees & Dorados) will be RGV(D-League)'s home.

I would like to see Laredo get in as well, would form another great rivalry (Bucks-Killer Bees, Lobos-Dorados, etc.)

sportsguy12
01-24-2007, 04:27 PM
Hidalgo's Dodge arena (home to the Killer Bees & Dorados) will be RGV(D-League)'s home.

I would like to see Laredo get in as well, would form another great rivalry (Bucks-Killer Bees, Lobos-Dorados, etc.)

said that RGV would be the only Texas expansion team this year. Is the Merrell Center in the Katy area (where the Copperheads moved) big enough for basketball?

Houston could put its D-League team there, perhaps.

Minor League Man
01-24-2007, 04:35 PM
Read it a little closer...He said he THOUGHT so. He might have no idea about the Laredo group.

sportsguy12
01-24-2007, 04:44 PM
Read it a little closer...He said he THOUGHT so. He might have no idea about the Laredo group.

The 12-team NBDL, the official feeder league of the NBA, is slated to expand to 16 squads next season. The season starts Nov. 23, the first Friday after Thanksgiving, and ends in mid-April. The only other current Texas NBDL teams are in Austin and Fort Worth.

Murphy expects the RGV entrant will be the only Texas expansion franchise in 2007-08.

I also thought that RGV would be the only one because ...

Orem, Utah is approved
Fort Wayne is close
RGV is approved
Florida could come back

I don't see how they will cap expansion at 16 teams because both NY and Boston are also looking at getting teams. And David Stern said the D-League is close to forming an eastern cluster, which should have at least 3-4 teams. He could be including Ft Wayne in this mix.

I expect them to be up around 20 teams next year, assuming everyone stays put.

rams80
01-24-2007, 05:00 PM
The Omaha Racers and Creighton co-existed for years, it's one of the largest cities in the US without a Major league team and they also have a new arena.
The D-leauge will be huge in another ten years (once the pay raises and big men start to pass on NCAA basketball (because the systems are not geared to them) and the top non-qualifing high school players starting playing in the D-league instead of going to prep or J.C. schools.

That was back before Creighton basketball became fracking huge. They constantly sell out that nice new arena now for the Blue Jays. Toss in Nebraska Omaha, and there is sizable competition for you basketball dollar.

AHL thought similarly about Omaha as you're thinking, and the Ak-Sar-Ben Knights have been a box office disaster.

Personally, I'm still not sold on your belief that the D-League will pass the NCAAs, and anyway I don't think your Omaha team will last ten years, let alone 3.

Ken, Steelheads fan
01-24-2007, 10:06 PM
That was back before Creighton basketball became fracking huge. They constantly sell out that nice new arena now for the Blue Jays. Toss in Nebraska Omaha, and there is sizable competition for you basketball dollar.

AHL thought similarly about Omaha as you're thinking, and the Ak-Sar-Ben Knights have been a box office disaster.

Personally, I'm still not sold on your belief that the D-League will pass the NCAAs, and anyway I don't think your Omaha team will last ten years, let alone 3.

I feel the same way about Fort Wayne, Indiana. Indiana U./Purdue U. Fort Wayne has expanded its program since the demise of the Fury. Where are all the dollars going to come from to support another team in this town? I also don't see the NBADL becoming huge in the future. I just don't see the fan support. I see this league becoming a collection of "taxi squads" instead.

...and for all the people who seem to think Rockford is in line for a fall/winter hoops team. Forget it! Rockford wants AHL hockey. This town gave-up on basketball years ago. The only reason the Lightning lasted as long as they did is because of the charity of the Timpe family. Judy Timpe and her late father should be placed in the CBA hall of fame for their efforts.

...and Hoffman Estates (Sears Centre)? I have a sister and brother-in-law near there. They are typical urban professionals like the many typical urban professionals in the area and wouldn't be caught DEAD at a minor league hoops game. They would pre-arrange to have their carcasses dragged out of the building rather than be caught lifeless at a NBADL game. Besides, the traffic from Chicago is brutal for people with simplier tastes. Too brutal for the average fan.

sportsguy12
01-24-2007, 11:39 PM
per game. If the D-League can boost that to 3,000 then I think it would be a go. I agree the Hoffman Estates is not a good site, but if they have an ownership group ... all the more power to them. I think Rockford and the Bulls would be a better match.

heavesrock
01-25-2007, 12:23 AM
I've heard rumors of Winnipeg(Minnesota maybe?) and Buffalo(Toronto).

bectond
01-25-2007, 01:01 AM
I see this league becoming a collection of "taxi squads" instead.
....

The basketball landscape is changing in the inner cities of America the graduation rate is about 35%. That means 65% of the kids in the ghetto don't finish high school. However, many of these players will continue to play AAU ball and dream of having NBA careers. Kids will have to decide if they want to take the GED then attend a prep school or Junior College before going the NCAA route or entering a NBDL 18 and under draft. If the pay increases why do you believe that these kids would pick the GED route? There are also top 100 high school seniors that won't have the grades to attend major colleges and big men that believe going to college will decrease their market value due to the fact that the college game is not suited for bigs. What is the advantage of going to college if your a big man? Why not get to the kids before the college coaches mess them up? The NCAA restricts the amount of time a player can work on his game. Why should'nt talented players play in a league that is geared towards developing talent? If the D-League is only 30 teams compared to the NCAA (over 350 teams) the D-League will only have to bring in 60 of the best 18 and younger players each year for 1 to 3 years of training and playing with former NCAA players that went undrafted and NBA players in their 1st or 2nd year. If the top high school bigs decide to play in the d-league in the future for an NBA team instead of playing in college why would people stay away? Example.. If Oden had decided to play in the NBDL this year, do you believe that he would'nt have been a draw? If so why, the d-league will continue to grow and expand it's influence. And not as a taxi squad league either. As a developmental league. USA basketball needs to improve upon how americans develop as players (We are behind europe in how we teach the game and develop our players) and the NCAA is not really going to change it's ways. Regardless of what you think change is coming and the D-League will be the vehicle.

FortWayneBballfan
01-30-2007, 06:17 PM
I feel the same way about Fort Wayne, Indiana. Indiana U./Purdue U. Fort Wayne has expanded its program since the demise of the Fury. Where are all the dollars going to come from to support another team in this town? I also don't see the NBADL becoming huge in the future. I just don't see the fan support. I see this league becoming a collection of "taxi squads" instead.

...and for all the people who seem to think Rockford is in line for a fall/winter hoops team. Forget it! Rockford wants AHL hockey. This town gave-up on basketball years ago. The only reason the Lightning lasted as long as they did is because of the charity of the Timpe family. Judy Timpe and her late father should be placed in the CBA hall of fame for their efforts.

...and Hoffman Estates (Sears Centre)? I have a sister and brother-in-law near there. They are typical urban professionals like the many typical urban professionals in the area and wouldn't be caught DEAD at a minor league hoops game. They would pre-arrange to have their carcasses dragged out of the building rather than be caught lifeless at a NBADL game. Besides, the traffic from Chicago is brutal for people with simplier tastes. Too brutal for the average fan.

You can not compare IPFW with a minor league basketball team..FW loves minor league sports which is why the Komets survived, the Freedom had great numbers attend games and the Fury had so much success(until the league was bought out and destroyed.)

People don't give a rats about IPFW. Its a completely different ballgame.

SignGuyDino
01-30-2007, 11:36 PM
I've said it before, I'll say it again:

Akron SHOULD have the Cleveland D-League team. You would think LeBron's hometown would, huh?


The D-League has it half-right now, they have pulled their AAA-level league out of A-level markets. But they are still playing in arenas where their attendance doesn't justify.

I'm sorry, I'd rather they play large high schools or small college gyms until they draw attendance that justifies the arenas. I'd rather be in a crowd of 2,000 in a smaller gym than 2,000 in a 16,500 seat venue. Believe me, I've been in 2,000 crowds for high school games that were more exciting crowd wise than the 2,000 that occassionaly were at Altitude games. It's all psychology.

Ultimately, they should buy out the rest of the CBA, and after getting a team for each NBA team, develop a AA and A level over about 20 years (like baseball) only play a short schedule to build up to the D-League and NBA. They could buy out other leagues to do this.

Their biggest plus: At least you don't worry about the NBA paying the bills.

The consulting bill is in the mail.

Pounder
01-31-2007, 11:04 AM
The D-League has it half-right now, they have pulled their AAA-level league out of A-level markets. But they are still playing in arenas where their attendance doesn't justify.

I'm sorry, I'd rather they play large high schools or small college gyms until they draw attendance that justifies the arenas. I'd rather be in a crowd of 2,000 in a smaller gym than 2,000 in a 16,500 seat venue. Believe me, I've been in 2,000 crowds for high school games that were more exciting crowd wise than the 2,000 that occassionaly were at Altitude games. It's all psychology.


Please forgive me... and, usually, I'm good at not repeating myself and letting things slide, but for some reason I feel compelled to reset this.

Beer. Makes. Profit. (THE profit, if 67% of the testimony I've heard on the subject is correct)

I'd literally consider erecting an aluminum-lined shack that could fit 2,500 seats (even bleachers) and had the proper concessions. Crap, I ought to just do that (doubt that the loan would be approved)... but basketball, while being my second favorite sport, wouldn't be my first or second sport in which to start a business.

Shootmaster_44
02-15-2007, 01:19 AM
I wonder if the NBA will try and keep the Raptors' affiliate Canadian? I realize if Rochester jumps from the ABA to the NBDL that proximity wise it would make the most sense for them to either affiliate with the Knicks, Nets or Raptors. But, I wonder if the NBA will try and tap into the Raptors being Canadian and place a team somewhere in Canada.

I figure the Quebec City Kebekwa from the ABA could jump and become the Raptors affiliate. However, if they were going for a purely new expansion team, where in Canada would be best? Unless a rash of Northeastern teams emerge, I would think somewhere in Western Canada would make the most travel sense. I doubt the NBA would put a team in Vancouver again, so that would leave Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon and perhaps Winnipeg as the best choices. As much as I am a big supporter of my Saskatoon, I would say the best choice would be Calgary. They are close enough to the Dakotas that they're not going to put a strain on travel. They are also close to Idaho, so that would work. Plus they are much closer to California than say Quebec City is to Fort Worth.

Minor League Man
02-15-2007, 01:32 AM
If the Kebekwa jump to the D-League, I think they'd move into Le Colisee Pepsi.

AConcernedCitizen
03-05-2007, 12:55 PM
Between the good ABA teams going to the D-League?

I can imagine Rochester for sure. But how many others?

AConcernedCitizen
03-05-2007, 01:07 PM
The basketball landscape is changing in the inner cities of America the graduation rate is about 35%. That means 65% of the kids in the ghetto don't finish high school. However, many of these players will continue to play AAU ball and dream of having NBA careers. Kids will have to decide if they want to take the GED then attend a prep school or Junior College before going the NCAA route or entering a NBDL 18 and under draft. If the pay increases why do you believe that these kids would pick the GED route? There are also top 100 high school seniors that won't have the grades to attend major colleges and big men that believe going to college will decrease their market value due to the fact that the college game is not suited for bigs. What is the advantage of going to college if your a big man? Why not get to the kids before the college coaches mess them up? The NCAA restricts the amount of time a player can work on his game. Why should'nt talented players play in a league that is geared towards developing talent? If the D-League is only 30 teams compared to the NCAA (over 350 teams) the D-League will only have to bring in 60 of the best 18 and younger players each year for 1 to 3 years of training and playing with former NCAA players that went undrafted and NBA players in their 1st or 2nd year. If the top high school bigs decide to play in the d-league in the future for an NBA team instead of playing in college why would people stay away? Example.. If Oden had decided to play in the NBDL this year, do you believe that he would'nt have been a draw? If so why, the d-league will continue to grow and expand it's influence. And not as a taxi squad league either. As a developmental league. USA basketball needs to improve upon how americans develop as players (We are behind europe in how we teach the game and develop our players) and the NCAA is not really going to change it's ways. Regardless of what you think change is coming and the D-League will be the vehicle.

This is the single most intelligent thing I have read in awhile and is the absolute proof in the pudding to the future success of minor league basketball IMHO

Pounder
03-05-2007, 04:05 PM
Wouldn't you know it, none other than Alex Wolff had an article on this topic. Do please keep in mind that this article is close to 4 years old.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/alexander_wolff/news/2003/06/24/hoop_life/

There's a couple hitches here.

(1) Arguably, this isn't just an indictment of college ball, but of the notion that kids need to go through high school. These programs all have education components. Thing is, for all the soccer fans begging for this kind of system in America (from which European basketball has evolved), there's American parents out there thinking "WTF" among many other thoughts.

(2) Territories or recruiting? (That may well be a function of #1, really)

I really think Europe has this right... but that doesn't mean America is going to follow suit.

Pounder
04-06-2007, 02:09 PM
I don't know if this pertains to 07-08 or later, but it appears the new management for Hartford Civic Center is targeting a D-League franchise.

http://www.courant.com/sports/hc-hartpack0329.artmar29,0,6904335.story

Ken, Steelheads fan
05-03-2007, 11:40 AM
This is another example of why I don't think the NBADL will see thirty teams at one time:

http://www.nwanews.com/adg/Sports/189137/

The Arkansas Rimrockers were supposed to be a model franchise a few years ago...at least that was the claim. My claim is that you can only bleed money for so long.

bectond
05-03-2007, 12:48 PM
Why LaCrosse is a better market than Little Rock:

1-The CBA Catbirds averaged 4,500 fans per game and won six attendance titles during their 9 year history.

2-LaCrosse is a college town without any sports options during the winter. There is nothing else to do in LaCrosse.

3-The LaCrosse Center Board has reduced rent in the past to assist a minor league basketball franchise, which is something Little Rock refused to do.

4- The Rimrocker owner can share the load with local investors from Wisconsin.

5- The Lease in LaCrosse is cheaper than the arena rent in Little Rock

6- The Travel cost will be reduced. If the D-League goes to a division format LaCrosse is within driving distance of Des Moines, Sioux Falls and Ft. Wayne.
As opposed to having to fly to Austin, McAllen and Dallas if the team were still in Arkansas.

7- The owner will sell a share of the team, which will cover any losses he will occur without giving up control of the team.

Ken, Steelheads fan
05-03-2007, 01:21 PM
Why LaCrosse is a better market than Little Rock:

1-The CBA Catbirds averaged 4,500 fans per game and won six attendance titles during their 9 year history.

2-LaCrosse is a college town without any sports options during the winter. There is nothing else to do in LaCrosse.

3-The LaCrosse Center Board has reduced rent in the past to assist a minor league basketball franchise, which is something Little Rock refused to do.

4- The Rimrocker owner can share the load with local investors from Wisconsin.

5- The Lease in LaCrosse is cheaper than the arena rent in Little Rock

6- The Travel cost will be reduced. If the D-League goes to a division format LaCrosse is within driving distance of Des Moines, Sioux Falls and Ft. Wayne.
As opposed to having to fly to Austin, McAllen and Dallas if the team were still in Arkansas.

7- The owner will sell a share of the team, which will cover any losses he will occur without giving up control of the team.

You're using some of the same arguments people in Fort Wayne, Indiana are using. The fact remains that that was then and this is now. A lot has changed since those teams posted those numbers--mainly in the area of competition for the entertainment dollar.

The Rimrockers once had huge crowds too--10,000 plus at times. What was their average this season? 1,100 and change, right?

panchess
05-03-2007, 02:28 PM
..David Stern likes the D-League, but isn't pushing expansion willy-nilly. A new commissioner of the NBA might not push it at all.

30 D-League teams doesn't make sense for the NBA for a lot of reasons, but the biggest is the relative lack of development compared to other sports. Yes, you need a place to have players available when the big team's players get injured. Yes, it is good to have a development league where benchwarmers can play.

Realistically, though, each team only has 2-4 of those kinds of players at any given time. Some don't have any. Why run a whole farm team for that?

SignGuyDino
05-03-2007, 04:53 PM
It's ridiculous that Darius Rice can drop over 50 in the D-League championship game and he can't play in the playoffs.

The D-League season should mainly be to get players in top shape in case of callups. It should start and end sooner so players can be called up while they can still impact the regular season, then the playoffs.

Baseball expands their roster at the end of the season for this very reason.

And Alltel is the model of what's wrong with the D-League: Local owners overpaying for too-large arenas that can't be possibly filled.

I think there SHOULD be 30 D-League teams eventually, but 4 regional sub-leagues (less travel), shorter regular season, then best of five playoffs where there is travelling nationwide.

bectond
05-03-2007, 09:05 PM
You're using some of the same arguments people in Fort Wayne, Indiana are using. The fact remains that that was then and this is now. A lot has changed since those teams posted those numbers--mainly in the area of competition for the entertainment dollar.

The Rimrockers once had huge crowds too--10,000 plus at times. What was their average this season? 1,100 and change, right?

Fort Wayne has competition for the entertainment dollar, LaCrosse does not.
major concert tours by pass LaCrosse and the city does not have any major or minor league sports franchises. LaCrosse will easily be one of the top three teams in terms of attendance in the D-League. I have often stated that Little Rock to the D-League was a bad move and i'm not sold on Fort Wayne either, but LaCrosse is a can't miss.

As for the D-League not being worth the trouble, I disagree. The only thing that stands in the way of the NBDL replacing the NCAA as the NBA's largest suppler of talent is an agreement between the player's union and the NBA league office on higher NBDL player salaries. Currently, high school players don't have incentive to play in the D-League due to the pay scale, in the near future the NBA will increase D-League salaries. Once that happens, most of the top players will forgo college all together. The best players will spend one or two years developing in the NBDL before moving on the NBA, while the mid-level players will spend one or two years in the NBDL before moving on to Europe. The lower level players can spend their careers in the NBDL or CBA.
The D-League is designed to save owners money teams will be able to see players in their system for a year or two before they reach the NBA, teams will have two years to decide if they want to sign youngsters to a mid-level 5 year contract. They will not have to rely on college coaches input, teams will be able to send their own development coaches to instruct their young players. The D-League will function as an internship for basketball players. It is a wise business move, pay a guy $150,000 a year, give him coaching, a nutritionist, a trainer and stash him away in a small town with positive influences and take two full years to decide if you want to pay him multi-millions.

panchess
05-04-2007, 09:28 AM
..actually that is what the CBA should be doing, in my opinion. It's obvious there is room for only one true development league, and the D-League is the one.

The CBA should be more focused on veteran talent and the kind of "high-risk, high-reward" kinds of players currently going to Europe or South America. Building stars and relationships with "name" players probably will do more for attendance than anything else.

If the D-League is more like AAA baseball, it is going to teach skills, not create stars. The NBA is heavily dependent on the NCAA for one thing: creating college stars that can play at the next level and "bring a name" with them.

Ken, Steelheads fan
05-04-2007, 11:26 AM
bectond,
When I mentioned then and now and competition for the entertainment dollar I also meant advancements in technology. Cable tv, dish networks, cell phones, computers, and Internet access are all more available than when those teams were posting high attendance numbers. Not only are the services for these technologies more available, but the services are more expensive. More expensive = less disposable income. Less disposable income = there better be a good reason to spend dollars.

Pounder
05-04-2007, 12:31 PM
As for the D-League not being worth the trouble, I disagree. The only thing that stands in the way of the NBDL replacing the NCAA as the NBA's largest suppler of talent is an agreement between the player's union and the NBA league office on higher NBDL player salaries. Currently, high school players don't have incentive to play in the D-League due to the pay scale, in the near future the NBA will increase D-League salaries. Once that happens, most of the top players will forgo college all together. The best players will spend one or two years developing in the NBDL before moving on the NBA, while the mid-level players will spend one or two years in the NBDL before moving on to Europe. The lower level players can spend their careers in the NBDL or CBA.
The D-League is designed to save owners money teams will be able to see players in their system for a year or two before they reach the NBA, teams will have two years to decide if they want to sign youngsters to a mid-level 5 year contract. They will not have to rely on college coaches input, teams will be able to send their own development coaches to instruct their young players. The D-League will function as an internship for basketball players. It is a wise business move, pay a guy $150,000 a year, give him coaching, a nutritionist, a trainer and stash him away in a small town with positive influences and take two full years to decide if you want to pay him multi-millions.

While I agree with the general sentiment and "EVENTUAL" goal as mentioned in this post, I think the details are somewhat speculative.

Increasing D-League pay will only matter to a few players... compared to the spotlight on college players who get paid handsomely when drafted. A few agent whisper campaigns will make that clear... probably to the best of the best.

The caveat to THAT... the profile of college basketball IS diminishing. It's not diminishing as slowly as, say, I'd like it to. I actually think it's a minimum 10 years before bectond's concept takes hold, probably closer to 20 years, since many sponsors and others will still use March Madness as the prime indicator of that profile.

bectond
05-04-2007, 01:33 PM
The first thing that needs to happen is an NCAA rule change regrading incoming Freshman, which will stipulate that all Freshman must commit to staying in college for two full seasons if they accept a college scholarship. Second, the NBA will have to abolish the current NBDL draft system and start a new High school draft. D-League contracts will then go only to:

1- Allocated local college players; one year deals

2- High School draft (Two rounds)
• They must play in the D-League for one season
• Their second season would be a team option:
• another year developing in the NBDL or
• earning a spot on the 14 man roster, teams could still assign these players to the NBDL since they are in their 2nd season
• The team would then have the option of extending the player for five years or
• release the player

3-Undrafted free agents
• Teams would sign players to players that go undrafted in the NBA college draft to free agent deals:
• If the player makes the 14 man roster in October, he receives a NBA minium salary one year contract
• If the player is waived, he will join the NBDL affiliate for 75,000 play in the D-League for a year, then play for the parent club in the summer league.
• The following year the player would attempt to make the 14 man roster again if he makes it he’ll receive a NBA minium salary contract
• If the player is waived again, he will join the NBDL affiliate for a second season, then play for the parent club in the summer league again.
• The team would then be forced to either sign the player to a NBA minium salary deal or waive the player.

4-Garaged Second Round Picks
• Teams would be able to park unsigned second round picks in the NBDL for a maximum of two years both they either signed the player to a NBA minium salary contract or renounce their rights, making the player a free agent

A team could draft a no.1 college draft pick
a second round college draft pick
a High school draft no. draft pick
a High school draft second round draft pick
Sign two Undrafted rookie prospects
and the league could allocate one local college player to the team.
Which would account for a maximum of 7 D-League eligible players a year.
Making the NBDL a true farm system.
NBA teams would only call-up players that were 1st or 2nd year players that were already under a NBA contract with the parent team that happened to be assigned to the D-League affiliate.
Minor League players with more than 2 years experience would play in the CBA, which would allow for 10 day call-ups starting in January.

I see this happening within the next 7-10 years.