NLL Outdoor Info from SBJ

[Dan K]

The 12/4-12/10/06 edition of SportsBusiness Journal had an article about the NLL's outdoor efforts. Some highlights from the article:

Owners voted to add outdoor lacrosse in 2008.

The NLL wants to start with at least four teams.

The NLL outdoor would play August to November; MLL is May to August.

Colorado, New York, Toronto and Portland have reportedly committed to playing outdoor.

Currently, about 15 to 20 percent of the NLL's players compete in the MLL.

The article suggests that the result could mean "salary inflation and more red ink" and that two outdoor leagues could not co-exist for long.

[sportsguy12]

The 12/4-12/10/06 edition of SportsBusiness Journal had an article about the NLL's outdoor efforts. Some highlights from the article:

Owners voted to add outdoor lacrosse in 2008.

The NLL wants to start with at least four teams.

The NLL outdoor would play August to November; MLL is May to August.

Colorado, New York, Toronto and Portland have reportedly committed to playing outdoor.

Currently, about 15 to 20 percent of the NLL's players compete in the MLL.

The article suggests that the result could mean "salary inflation and more red ink" and that two outdoor leagues could not co-exist for long.

Can you say merger? If the leagues merge, I would expect the NLL teams to remain. A 20-team league would be nice.


Atlantic
New York Titans
Boston Cannons
Philadelphia Wings
Washington Bayhawks
Baltimore (moved from Philadelphia) Barrage

Northeast
Rochester Nighthawks (Rochester Rattlers fold)
Buffalo Bandits
Toronto Rock
Long Island Lizards
New Jersey Pride

Pacific
Colorado Mammoth/Denver Outlaws
Arizona Sandsharks
San Jose Stealth
San Francisco Dragons
Los Angeles Riptide

Northwest
Portland Lumberjax
Calgary Roughnecks
Edmonton Rush
Chicago Shamrox (Chicago Machine fold) - not the best fit here
Minnesota Swarm

[jwalters]

Why wouldn't Philadelphia move to Washington. Washington Brigade sounds good. The Bayhawks should stay in Baltimore. I also think that the Rattlers could move to Syracuse. They could play outdoors in the 11,000 seat baseball stadium and for the indoor season they could play in the Carrier Dome. The Oncenter is too small but for basketball the Dome seats up to 32,000 they could close off some sections and play there.

[sportsguy12]

Why wouldn't Philadelphia move to Washington. Washington Brigade sounds good. The Bayhawks should stay in Baltimore. I also think that the Rattlers could move to Syracuse. They could play outdoors in the 11,000 seat baseball stadium and for the indoor season they could play in the Carrier Dome. The Oncenter is too small but for basketball the Dome seats up to 32,000 they could close off some sections and play there.

So that's why. The Bayhawks are no longer in Baltimore. I think the Carrier Dome is a bit big for this.

[Pounder]

What I hear: there's such a nasty sponsor fight behind all this that's generating NLL-Outdoor in the first place. The goal is to drive the competition into the core of the earth. Let's just say that holding your breath for a merger is likely a waste of time and brain cells.

[jwalters]

I should have explained my comment about Baltimore better. I knew at the time that they had moved to D.C. but I was trying to say that the team should stay in Baltimore. I think Barrage or Brigade sounds good for a team in D.C. and because MLL operates as a single entity it wouldn't require an owner to move. The Philadelphia Barrage has moved one time before already.

[Shootmaster_44]

What I hear: there's such a nasty sponsor fight behind all this that's generating NLL-Outdoor in the first place. The goal is to drive the competition into the core of the earth. Let's just say that holding your breath for a merger is likely a waste of time and brain cells.

From what I understand Pounder is right. Brine Lacrosse backs the MLL, while RBK backs the NLL. My guess is that the RBK being the much larger company will win out. The only way any of the MLL teams join NLL-O is if they defect. The NLL-O will continue until the MLL is toast.

However, the one caveat in all this is that the MLL plays a spring schedule while the proposed NLL-O is slated for a fall schedule. So in a sense neither will run head-to-head with each other. The only way one league will have any control over the other is through the signing of players. I would assume the NLL will have their players sign exclusive contracts. Thus, I would assume the MLL would do the same, meaning that it will be impossible for anyone to become a full-time professional lacrosse player.

As it stands now, if there was an air of cooperation between the NLL and MLL, a player could be a full-time pro player. They play in the NLL during the winter, switch to the MLL in the spring, play for under the table money in the WLA or OLA box lax leagues during the summer and finally play NLL-O during the fall. However, take the MLL out of the factor and likely a player would have to be only a part-time pro as most of the NLL players are now.

As for the mention of using a Dome for the NLL. That would be ridiculous as the NLL plays on a floor the size of an NHL rink. If a Dome were used as the home "arena," you'd have a situation akin to the NHL Heritage Classic where the rink is centred on the football field a good 20 or 30 yards from the stands on the sides and 70 or 80 yards from the stands in the end. The Blue Cross Arena in Syracuse would be a much better idea.

[jwalters]

The Carrier Dome in Syracuse is a multi purpose venue. They wouldn't position the rink like they do in the heritage classics. They would position it against one endzone section. They then would close off the space by moving the other endzone section down to the rink. This creates a very large but still not outlandish four sided arena. Syracuse basketball has been using this set up since the dome opened in the late seventies. The sad fact is that Syracuse doesn't have a quality venue for box lacrosse. Blue Cross is in Roshester. The only hockey arenas in Syracuse are the oncenter less than 7,000 and the coca-cola coliseum 4,000. These just won't allow for an NLL team. Until a new arena is built the Carrier Dome is the only option.

[Pounder]

...and if you could rent 30% of the building, it would work.

You can't just rent 30% of the building. There's a reason MLS is getting away from NFL stadia and there are many reasons NBA and NHL teams got out of domes.

Meanwhile, on one of the NLL message boards, it strikes me as curious that the Portland owner, a regular on that board, isn't addressing the outdoor team issue. A fall team in Portland is kind of interesting, though sharing with Portland State and HS football isn't necessarily the best scenario.

[Shootmaster_44]

The Carrier Dome in Syracuse is a multi purpose venue. They wouldn't position the rink like they do in the heritage classics. They would position it against one endzone section. They then would close off the space by moving the other endzone section down to the rink. This creates a very large but still not outlandish four sided arena. Syracuse basketball has been using this set up since the dome opened in the late seventies. The sad fact is that Syracuse doesn't have a quality venue for box lacrosse. Blue Cross is in Roshester. The only hockey arenas in Syracuse are the oncenter less than 7,000 and the coca-cola coliseum 4,000. These just won't allow for an NLL team. Until a new arena is built the Carrier Dome is the only option.

Where did the Smash play? With all the corporate branding of arenas, I sometimes forget which arena is where.

I highly doubt the NLL would move into the Carrier Dome. It would be too cost prohibitive for the indoor team. However, it might work for NLL-Outdoor, except it may simply be too big capacity-wise for them to play in. What remains to be seen is how much money RBK is going to put into NLL-O. If RBK essentially owns the league, then I see it becoming somewhat like car racing, where the sponsors promote the league to the nth degree.

[jwalters]

The NLL team played at the Oncenter. You can make rental agreements for only a certain amount of a venue. I just don't know if they would do that at the dome. Truth is an MLL team would work much better in Syracuse because there is a good venue for that. The Syracuse Chiefs baseball stadium seats 11,000 and would work great for the MLL.

[summerfan]

The NLL team played at the Oncenter. You can make rental agreements for only a certain amount of a venue. I just don't know if they would do that at the dome. Truth is an MLL team would work much better in Syracuse because there is a good venue for that. The Syracuse Chiefs baseball stadium seats 11,000 and would work great for the MLL.

Probleam is the cheifs will not let any other team use the stadium.That is the main reason the soccer team folded as they could not use the stadium.Aslo there was a group that wanted to bring a mll team but same probleam they could not use the stadium.

[Natey]

I think the NLL and MLL should work together instead of trying to drive each other out of business. I love both leagues but i hope it stays the way it is. No NLL-O just MLL.