CBA Struggling

[a1sports]

Conference call between teams last Frdiay ( Jan 12) proves out that CBA in trouble. Two teams need help. My guess is they will barely make it through season. Proves you cant have two companies own 6 teams that cant afford to support one. The league should be more careful of who monitors there conference calls.

[panchess]

.. I assume those teams are Utah and Pittsburgh. Maybe Indiana, though they are travelling with an over-full complement and generally adding players.

Regarding the multiple ownership, most people knew this year was going to be a challenge. Apex stepped in at Utah, which I am guessing wasn't ready at all for the season, and they may be stretched as a result.

Pittsburgh just isn't making any headway in their market, though if the Penguins move, they may be in the right place at the right time.

Utah gets a relatively cheap stretch of the schedule, with three games in Butte, and six home games before the All-Star break. Hopefully they will get enough funds for the February road swing.

[psbf]

You know, I'm tired of reading from those who do not live here, about the Xplosion and their problems. They just hired a new coach and are trying some ideas that I've suggested and I'm sure that more fans will be attending tonight's game. So let's see how that goes.
As far as the league in trouble, I can't speak for the other team, though I read that Butte only attracted less than 700 for their border battle with Minot last night and Utah had no figures available for their loss to Yakama.
But I agree that companies owning multiple teams is a stretch. But I think that's where sponsors come in to help. It's also up to each team to promote itself.

[panchess]

..just reporting as it is. Though the miserable weather in Big Sky country probably hurt the crowd for a mid-week game, they have been doing better in the attendance department than Pittsburgh, a team that has made mistakes, but been unlucky as well.

I think they need a smaller venue than Mellon Arena.

Bringing in a proven coach like Jeren Jackson will undoubtedly help. Promotions with high school teams will help too. Those things will help get people in the seats.

[kg21obf]

Utah doesnt get any income from playing home games, unless people buy tix. If the season ticketholders show or not it is irrelavent. The tickets have already been paid for. It is by far the saddest state the CBA has been in for years. If anyone thinks you can make it on 700-1000 people, they cant. Ask Rockford they finally folded after years of losing money. Check their attendance levels they had to be close to 2000 per game(guessing). Isnt anyone concerned about the quality of play? Yakama had 21 steals last nite, Utah doesnt have a Division 3 ballhandler.

[panchess]

..for a four-game homestand in Butte. Perhaps the Eagles are becoming a "road-only" outfit for the rest of the season?

[bdaly]

Some bad signs out of Utah. Utah and Butte are in the Apex group, so it was probably done to save travel money between two of their weaker teams (Butte drew a season low announced crowd of 672 last night). Utah is another example of why minor league teams are risky business in large markets when there's no tie-in to the major league team. Utah trading its leading scorer (for cash according to a newspaper article, or "future considerations" according to the release) is another bad one.

So, I don't think it's necessarily a sign that they will be on the road the rest of the way. But, don't be surprised to see Apex continue to shift the location when its own teams play. It is a sign that Utah will move/disapper after the season though--they appear to have given up on the market.

[bectond]

they appear to have given up on the market.

Great!!! Salt Lake City is a small market that already has an NBA team and the State university playing in the same town. Lethbridge, Great Falls, Butte and Billings would make for lower travel cost if Apex ever decided to consolidate. However, one cross continental road trip is more than enough and to me that seems to be the biggest problem. Teams having to go east more than once. A western team should be able to fly in to Albany, then bus down to Pittsburgh and Anderson then fly out of Indianapolis and complete the trip in less than 8 days total. (Minot excluded)
An East coast swing should not exceed a cost of $7,500 (plus per diem) for the entire season. Either load up on local rivalry games or reduce the number of games played (16 weeks at 2 games per week with less weekday games). To me more games equals more losses, I think if anything the playoffs should be extended. Are teams really making anymore money off that third game of the week?

P.S.- the arena rent and overall cost of living in Butte is a whole lot less than the rent and cost of living in Rockford. The Daredevils can make it in that market if they step up their efforts.

[sportsguy12]

..for a four-game homestand in Butte. Perhaps the Eagles are becoming a "road-only" outfit for the rest of the season?

... already scheduled in Butte anyway. I don't buy A1's claims. Show me some proof.

It's all ABA propaganda. Any more ABA ownership changes? Too quiet in my book, something's brewin'

[Sam Hill]

Oddly enough, the CBA has apparently unearthed attendance figures for all but two games played thus far (one in Utah, one in Butte), and the announced averages for all the teams are:

Team........G....Total..Average
Yakama.......15...46,580..3,105
Albany........8...11,989..1,499
Minot.........8...10,717..1,340
Indiana.......6....7,108..1,185
Great Falls...9...10,479..1,164
Butte.........8....8,847..1,106
Pittsburgh...10...11,041..1,104
Utah.........10...10,104..1,010
CBA TOTAL..74..116,865..1,579

[psbf]

I agree that the Xplosion need to play in a smaller venue, but until their lease with M.A. is up(depending on the Pens and a new Arena), they have to play in the current ones.
As far as the league, whatever happens happens, regardless of any views that are posted on here.
I liked how the Xplosion were positioned last year(in the ABA). Unfortunately, that league has no connection to the NBA. But we were playing against more regional opponents. This league requires more travel and with our attendence this year so far, it is risky financially, which is why I've been trying to get fans out to the games. I take things a game at a time and enjoy each game(while frustrated at the losses).
But I do think it is a strain, with the league only having 3 teams here in the East and a lack of fan support overall(aside from Yakama).

[bdaly]

Interesting quote from The Montana Standard regarding the move of a game from Utah to Butte:

"The next will be Sunday, a 7:15 p.m. game called “Fan Appreciation Night” and arena tickets are $4 apiece. Season ticket-holders will be let in free. It is a game that had first been set as an away game in Salt Lake City Thursday night, but moved as one of the rescheduling moves that may be taking place for some CBA teams this winter in cost-saving efforts."

http://www.mtstandard.com/articles/2007/01/21/sports_semipro/hjjcjihijigggd.txt

Not surprisingly, it looks like travel is getting to be too much of a burden for some teams when compared to revenue coming in. It'll be interesting to see if the impacted teams all come from one ownership group or not.

[FrozenUpHere]

I was visiting APEX's website today, and i noticed that they don't claim to own or operate the Utah team. Has anyone else been to their website earlier? If so, did they have any claims to the Eagles then? Just curious.

http://www.apexsportstainment.com/

[heavesrock]

That website hasn't been updated in months. The team websites are the only ones updated.

[psbf]

I read that also, in the M.S.. I also checked that website and only saw the logos for Explorers, Daredevils and Skyrockets. This coupled with the pictures of the empty stands of that Eagles home game has to make you wonder in what shape the Eagles really are in.

[MontanaFella]

I have truly grown to love the CBA in Great Falls in a short amount of time. I hear all of the issue you all are saying, but I hope the league stay resilient and keeps plugging away. I know they are working hard to get it up and going in Great Falls, but Apex has a GM and only part time help to get everything moving. I heard the GM is everything from the media relations guy to the webmaster to the receptionist, not exactly a recipe for success. He works hard though.

[bdaly]

The positive way to look at it is the CBA has had many issues over its years, but the league always seems to live on. As I've been saying all along, I think travel has been a major factor in the turnover this league sees. Hopefully most of the teams can hang on and they can create two or three regional divisions with some expansion next year.

It sounds like Apex is really trying to minimize costs through sharing staff. It can be a good idea, but it sounds like they might be taking it a bit too far. It's tough to really get out in the community and sell with such a lack of staff. But, perhaps they are just in a cost-saving mode given the late start they got this year.

[panchess]

..and the home-and-home stuff works better in a bus league. New York vs. Philly. LA vs. San Diego. That kind of thing.

Apex took on the Eagles just before the season too, perhaps from owners who were in over their head, so the staffing might be a bit stretched as well.

Too bad the CBA couldn't have gotten Fort Wayne back. It looks like that is going to be a D-League franchise.

[psbf]

I also hope the league survives and I think it will.
If APEX is understaffed, I have to wonder why they took over those teams, while I'm glad they did. It sounds like they must be struggling as much as Utah is. Me and other Xplosion fans are looking forward to next season. I seriously hope there is one.

[panchess]

..might be one reason. Fleshing out to the originally-proposed four franchises may have been attractive to Apex with the addition of Utah, but it is a bit far afield from Montana and North Dakota. I wouldn't be surprised if the Eagles land somewhere else next season, like Billings, MT or Rapid City, SD.

Apex does seem to have a core to build on in Great Falls and Minot. Butte must be pretty disappointing, given that it is Joe Clark's home town. Hopefully they can muster a good crowd for the All-Star Game.

[bdaly]

I think there's hope for Butte, because unlike in two cities I've spent too much time discussing, their announced crowds are pretty close to reality based on the pictures and articles I've seen. And, I think there's real potential in moving Utah to one of the proposed cities. They could probably get a real legit following there and it would add a team in a location that makes sense from a geographic standpoint.

The CBA has to look at franchises like Rochester and Buffalo as appealing ones too. Obviously the Razorsharks are established and Buffalo has been stable since the ownership change and they seem to be adding talent as the season progresses (in an arena that's a good fit). Then, suddenly, the CBA would have four teams within a six hour bus ride of one another. With that said, I don't know if either side has any interest in one another.

The league definitely has some significant hurdles to clear. But, if money remains in these groups, perhaps the league can come back stronger. Sharing staff is tough though. Here in Rochester, I see how stretched the Rochester Sports Group staff can get with four teams, and they're all in the same city. Apex might want to look to commissioned group sales reps in each city.

[a1sports]

If you check out Apex entertainment you will see they have no funds and operating on barebones. CBA is 2 seconds away from collapsing....

[bdaly]

If you check out Apex entertainment you will see they have no funds and operating on barebones. CBA is 2 seconds away from collapsing....
Wouldn't be shocked. As I said at the start of the season, they'd need to have significant capital to burn to make it through in decent shape. Some of what we're seeing serves as a sign that they're struggling. With that said, we've heard a lot of rumors, so we'll see how this actually plays out.

If it does happen, it does make you wonder. They have built a bit of a core in three cities with minimal effort/cash. So, if they make it through, perhaps they could sell them off at a modest fee as a way to recoup some capital. Granted, I don't think those teams become attractive until the travel component becomes more modest. That seems like a best case scenario for the CBA should this occur though.

[panchess]

..to get the Razorsharks in, but the owner didn't like the travel. No doubt they will try again this season. The improved climate in the ABA (at least in Rochester's division) and the continued good attendance in Rochester may be negatives in that regard. Why spend more than you have to?

Personally, I would love for the CBA to absorb Rochester, Cape Cod and Buffalo from the Blue North division, and Strong Island from the Blue Central. Combined with Albany, Pittsburgh and even Indiana, a lot of the trips would be shorter than Rochester to Montreal or Quebec City.

[psbf]

Panchess, I'd like to see that as well, in addition to the teams already planned for expansion. I'm just taking this season game by game and looking forward to tomorrow night's Xplosion game, when Yakama makes their first appearance. I was hoping to see Rochester(along with the rest of the planned Division) come here this year, before we switched leagues.

[panchess]

..for the first time in a couple weeks, so that is an encouraging sign.

[bdaly]

..to get the Razorsharks in, but the owner didn't like the travel. No doubt they will try again this season. The improved climate in the ABA (at least in Rochester's division) and the continued good attendance in Rochester may be negatives in that regard. Why spend more than you have to?

True, and it has been better overall. But, the media is pretty quick to highlight the ABA's issues. So, if the CBA could present Rochester with something attractive (a more stable league with costs not increasing dramatically), I suspect they'd listen. I suspect they weren't satisfied with the lack of eastern teams and the fact things were coming together so late.

When the media mentions the Razorsharks changing leagues, everyone talks about the NBADL. So, who knows. But, I've heard very little from the organization themselves. All I know is as of last year travel was a concern, and understandably so. If it were me, I'd look to see what sort of power Doyle is actually going to have in the ABA, and see how things shake out in the CBA.

[bectond]

if the CBA could present Rochester with something attractive (a more stable league with costs not increasing dramatically), I suspect they'd listen. I suspect they weren't satisfied with the lack of eastern teams and the fact things were coming together so late.

When the media mentions the Razorsharks changing leagues, everyone talks about the NBADL. .

If travel cost are an issue than the NBDL is a worse option than the CBA because the D-League has ZERO eastern teams. The CBA has three and two are supposed to join next year.

[sportsguy12]

If you check out Apex entertainment you will see they have no funds and operating on barebones. CBA is 2 seconds away from collapsing....

I'm sure it would state "no funds and operating on barebones" on their site.

If it does collapse, we can only hope that you and your Uncle Joe might be underneath the rubble.

[MontanaFella]

to find out the financial security of a private company like Apex. I did hear today however from a friend in Butte that the wheels are in motion to end the bleeding in Utah. He said that the lost home games of the other teams will be made up through extra games with shorter travel distances. The players from Utah would be available through a dispersal draft. He things there will definitly be two games with Utah and Butte though on Tuesday and Wednesday but expect 7 CBA teams by the weekend.

[heavesrock]

No way Cape Cod goes CBA. Too small of a market, too small arenas, and that fact they only need to average 330 per game to break even means they are staying ABA.

[Sam Hill]

If you check out Apex entertainment you will see they have no funds and operating on barebones. CBA is 2 seconds away from collapsing....

Wasn't it you who gave them a month, tops, a while back?

Now they're even closer to death!

tick, tock....

[psbf]

about Utah, then it's something I feel that we've all expected. But I hate to lose any team, especially in mid-season.

[Sam Hill]

CBA is 2 seconds away from collapsing....

Tick, tock, tick, tock.

Today is February 7, or two weeks and two days after you posted this.

How's it looking for your predictions now?