Seals shut out of venue

[SignGuyDino]

From the venue's own website comes this:

http://www.ohpark.com/blog/index.php/2007/01/04/florida-seals-locked-out-of-silver-spurs-arena/

There ARE rumors of them moving to Daytona. Why in the hell would ANY venue consider ANY team that apparently isn't paying the bills?

[goguard88]

Whoa... does that mean we get the forfeit win for tomorrow's game?

[nksports]

Just when it looked like the SPHL was getting its spam together. Those Fla arenas don't @#%* around anymore (thanks in part to the NIFL). Pay your rent. Let's hope this can get settled before the league gets hurt.

[Jaxen]

The Florida Seals have been removed from the upcoming schedule on Pointstreak, the league's statistical website.

Silver Spurs Arena extended as much grace as they could with them. I have an article in tomorrow's paper with this morning's updates.

[R-Dizzle804]

PHN reports that they have folded and the league is in the process of reworking the schedule.

as for their game with Fayetteville tonight......the Antz are going to play in Jacksonville tonight

[sportsguy12]

PHN reports that they have folded and the league is in the process of reworking the schedule.

as for their game with Fayetteville tonight......the Antz are going to play in Jacksonville tonight

still involved. Whatever he touches turns to dust ... remember the plans for a revived WHA? He came up with the WHA2.

[Sealsfan]

The Seals where the only minor league hockey team anywhere near the Central Florida area. Are there any plans for the SPHL or any other league to place another team in this area. The problem with the Seals this year was directly related to the management and not a lack of a fan base. The management group this year appeared cheap and unorganized in everything they did and they did a lousy job in promotions. It is unfortunate, but I could see this day coming. If a good management group would bring a team into this area, I believe it would do well.

[mvhcpa]

...and not a judgment. With all the talk on the NIFL football and ABA basketball boards about teams folding in the middle of the year and games being cancelled, how much, if any, of the blame for the Seals folding can be attributed to the SPHL at the league level? or is it just one of those minor-league things that can happen to any league's teams at any time?

The criteria for a truly professional league, laid down by a poster in the ABA forum when told by an ABA supporter that the improved ABA played 85% of its scheduled games so far (as opposed to the 50% in the prior year), was that a truly professional league plays 100% of its scheduled games, no less. Does that apply in this situation? Is the SPHL any less professional because of this?

On a few sidenotes,

1) Would it have been better to road-team-ize the Seals under league ownership and finish the schedule, or just more orderly (and cheaper) to fold 'em up now?

2) What is going to happen to the SPHL standings? Are games already played against the Seals going to count in the standings, with no allowance for future games, or are all of their games removed or forfeited? Does everyone rooked out of a future game get the benefit of forfeits? Did the SPHL work this out in advance (like a pre-nuptual agreement, that you hope you never have to use but it's there in the worst case) or are they winging it? What would be the most fair way to handle something like this in any league?

Just askin'--any thoughts?

Michael Val
(who himself thinks that, as long the Seals weren't merely handed a franchise after the franchise fee check cleared like the ABA system, then the SPHL has no blame for the Seals' folding)

[DDD]

still involved. Whatever he touches turns to dust ... remember the plans for a revived WHA? He came up with the WHA2.

William Lucia or Bill Lucia purchased the team at the end of last year. Lucia, his staff the "Watsons", and their con artist ways led the team down this path. Last season was the best Seals season yet, even topped the old days in Orlando. The attendance was looking good on targeted nights and the team went to the finals. With the ownership change came 2 GM, 1 Assistant GM, and 1 Dir. of Sales resignations. No one would work for Lucia as soon as they found out a little about him. In my opinion the League is not at fault. The SPHL is light years ahead of the ABA, NIFL, etc. I'm not saying they are perfect, but they do a great job in not expanding to quickly, and they try to only take solid, concrete ownerships. The change came as a suprise to them and they had no choice, but to let the sale of the team go through or remove the Seals franchise from the League prior to the beginning of the season. I'm sure it crossed their minds, but the last thing the wanted to do was lose a team when the league was looking on the up, they took a gamble hoping Lucia would work out and it didn't. But they have had the correct reaction by retooling the schedule and removing all connections with the "Lucia" Seals. It would be too expensive and too hard on the players to field a "road warrior" team, and it's just not professional. Central Florida hockey has been such a mess over the last few years, but last year it cleaned it's act up, until Lucia and his crew erased all progress the day they began making decisions.

[tony-o]

1) Honestly, I think it was better just to fold the Seals and rework the schedule, like they are doing now. It would have been a little harder to to rework the schedule with the Seals as a road-only team.

2) The games will be "cancelled", but they will probably be made up in the new schedule.

The SPHL is not really to blame for the Seals folding. After seeing a few Cottonmouths games I have to say I'm impressed with the league thus far. They have a plan worked out were you don't need 5000-10000 fans at every game to succeed, but only about 2500 to make money(and you can get about 4000 during free "jersey" night). Problem is, Florida was second-worst in attendance this year with just over 2000. Expect the team right below them in average attendance, the Pee Dee Cyclones, to vanish this offseason. Other than those two teams, no one else in the league has been thought to be in trouble. I think the league was professional to come right out, talk about the problem, and find a solution instead of being like the NIFL and ABA and quietly canceling games so no one notices them.

And by the way, MLB cancels games every year and the NBA just canceled a game to be played in Denver last week. I'd consider them professional leagues even though they played less than 100% of their schedules.

[crosschecker]

Are the players that are owed money by the Seals out of luck or does the league step up and make good on monies owed?

[Jaxen]

As someone will a lot of eyes-on experience of the Seals situation, I can say that everyone that's chimed in thus far is partially right.

First, the SPHL is intact. No problems there. I thought it was spiffy that by Friday afternoon the entire league schedule had been tweaked to make up for the Seals gooing poof for about the next week. The league board will be adjusting the schedule on a rolling basis to try to get everyone their 28 home games and 56 games overall. It won't be perfect, but they're trying.

The ownership situation: Basically what happened is that current ownership made a lot of empty promises to the arena, fans, coaches, players, and community. (Then blamed those same groups when it failed.) Some of those empty promises were based on other empty promises that the former ownership group made to Lucia and his investors. The first two admin staffs that came in lasted maybe a couple of weeks, that's all they could last working for Lucia. (The 1st staff was the people that helped run the Seals last year. They got fed up, left as a group, then were hired as a group by the Osceola Ghostriders of the new World Indoor Football League.)

Then there was General Manager Byran Elliott, who came in in August. (For a league that started play in late October.) He lasted until early December, when he got run out of town. I didn't have any bad dealings with him, but literally everyone else did.

So it set things in motion for what I thought would be a slow roll down the back side of a hill. Turned out to be a drop off a cliff into a 4,000 foot abyss. Bill Lucia just ran out of money, threw his hands in the air, and gave up. It's a real shame because the team is the only pro hockey club in the Central Florida area, and because the Seals did so well last year.

By the way, found out Friday night that Bill Lucia's been arrested twice and spent a night in jail on a tresspassing charge in 2001. (I can track down the source if need be) If you see this man coming your way, run ... unless he's handing you cash. Then ask for 2 forms of ID.

[sportsguy12]

1) Honestly, I think it was better just to fold the Seals and rework the schedule, like they are doing now. It would have been a little harder to to rework the schedule with the Seals as a road-only team.

2) The games will be "cancelled", but they will probably be made up in the new schedule.

The SPHL is not really to blame for the Seals folding. After seeing a few Cottonmouths games I have to say I'm impressed with the league thus far. They have a plan worked out were you don't need 5000-10000 fans at every game to succeed, but only about 2500 to make money(and you can get about 4000 during free "jersey" night). Problem is, Florida was second-worst in attendance this year with just over 2000. Expect the team right below them in average attendance, the Pee Dee Cyclones, to vanish this offseason. Other than those two teams, no one else in the league has been thought to be in trouble. I think the league was professional to come right out, talk about the problem, and find a solution instead of being like the NIFL and ABA and quietly canceling games so no one notices them.

And by the way, MLB cancels games every year and the NBA just canceled a game to be played in Denver last week. I'd consider them professional leagues even though they played less than 100% of their schedules.

Read my lips before you say something stupid, like this. THE ONLY REASON THAT MLB AND NBA CANCEL GAMES IS DUE TO THE WEATHER.

Baseball is an outdoor sport that cannot be played in inclimate weather. They always re-schedule games. Actually, cancelled isn't the right word. It's postponed.

The NBA has only postponed games when there's 30 inches of snow on the ground. It's only happens once a full moon. So don't go there.

The ABA has used the snow excuse before. And they have re-written the book of excuses when games aren't played. Most of the time they use their most favorite one: Folded and just didn't play.

Or their second favorite one: due to unforeseen circumstances (which is worth a bag of air) we were forced to change the schedule.

They have improved this year, but when you sunk as low as they did, there's still plenty of room for improvement.

[DDD]

As someone will a lot of eyes-on experience of the Seals situation, I can say that everyone that's chimed in thus far is partially right.

First, the SPHL is intact. No problems there. I thought it was spiffy that by Friday afternoon the entire league schedule had been tweaked to make up for the Seals gooing poof for about the next week. The league board will be adjusting the schedule on a rolling basis to try to get everyone their 28 home games and 56 games overall. It won't be perfect, but they're trying.

The ownership situation: Basically what happened is that current ownership made a lot of empty promises to the arena, fans, coaches, players, and community. (Then blamed those same groups when it failed.) Some of those empty promises were based on other empty promises that the former ownership group made to Lucia and his investors. The first two admin staffs that came in lasted maybe a couple of weeks, that's all they could last working for Lucia. (The 1st staff was the people that helped run the Seals last year. They got fed up, left as a group, then were hired as a group by the Osceola Ghostriders of the new World Indoor Football League.)

Then there was General Manager Byran Elliott, who came in in August. (For a league that started play in late October.) He lasted until early December, when he got run out of town. I didn't have any bad dealings with him, but literally everyone else did.

So it set things in motion for what I thought would be a slow roll down the back side of a hill. Turned out to be a drop off a cliff into a 4,000 foot abyss. Bill Lucia just ran out of money, threw his hands in the air, and gave up. It's a real shame because the team is the only pro hockey club in the Central Florida area, and because the Seals did so well last year.

By the way, found out Friday night that Bill Lucia's been arrested twice and spent a night in jail on a tresspassing charge in 2001. (I can track down the source if need be) If you see this man coming your way, run ... unless he's handing you cash. Then ask for 2 forms of ID.

Exactly, the only thing you missed was Bill Lucia didn't "run out of money", he never had any and it took this long for the bills to catch up. Everything else is on the money, nice post.

[nksports]

Exactly, the only thing you missed was Bill Lucia didn't "run out of money", he never had any and it took this long for the bills to catch up. Everything else is on the money, nice post.

Two words for next season -- performance bonds.

If I were king of sports, I'd require every team in my league to put one year's operating costs into an escrow account. If the ownership group falters, that money goes to keep the team afloat the rest of the season.

[rams80]

1) Honestly, I think it was better just to fold the Seals and rework the schedule, like they are doing now. It would have been a little harder to to rework the schedule with the Seals as a road-only team.

2) The games will be "cancelled", but they will probably be made up in the new schedule.

The SPHL is not really to blame for the Seals folding. After seeing a few Cottonmouths games I have to say I'm impressed with the league thus far. They have a plan worked out were you don't need 5000-10000 fans at every game to succeed, but only about 2500 to make money(and you can get about 4000 during free "jersey" night). Problem is, Florida was second-worst in attendance this year with just over 2000. Expect the team right below them in average attendance, the Pee Dee Cyclones, to vanish this offseason. Other than those two teams, no one else in the league has been thought to be in trouble. I think the league was professional to come right out, talk about the problem, and find a solution instead of being like the NIFL and ABA and quietly canceling games so no one notices them.

And by the way, MLB cancels games every year and the NBA just canceled a game to be played in Denver last week. I'd consider them professional leagues even though they played less than 100% of their schedules.

Yes, but those result from "Acts of God" as opposed to "Acts of Man/financial incompetents"