I am not the only one...CBA on the WAY OUT

[ABA06er]

On the CBA forum posters are now talking about the poor attendence of the CBA and folding of the league coming sooner then later....

This post is from the CBA Forum....

Opening Game attendance CBA...... NOT GOOD

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When one company owns three to four teams in one league, something will give very soon. This business model will NOT work. CBA will not survive with such poor turnouts ( exception Yakama). The company that owns the teams does NOT appear to have the funds to sustain the teams over the long haul. This is based on insider information and how accurate it is , we shall soon see.
Meanwhile it looks like some company has invested a ton of money into the ABA, now where that will take them, time will also tell. The NBA teams are now seriously considering placing NBDL teams in there own cities, again how smart is that? Time will tell. By the way...what time is it in minor league basketball???


* For all of the critics of the ABA whats it say that the ABA will be around when the CBA folds , soon very soon.

[preeths]

I ask you again, what does the strength of the CBA have to do with the ABA? Let's take your claims at face value for now and say, for the sake of argument, that the CBA is weaker than the ABA. So what? How does that help the ABA? Does the CBA's perceived weakness say anything at all about the ABA?

[WHAFAN]

Is it possible for there to be any league in any sport weaker than the ABA? Why not forget the CBA and ABA and go out and support your local high school team. They have real uniforms, a team bus, and best of all, Joe Newman doesn't have his meat hooks involved. In 6 years, the ABA can't get out of its own way. 75 people at a pro game? Are you kidding me? I can find that many people watching paint dry at a Home Depot seminar. As long as Joe Newman runs this operation, he assumes the ABA name will make fans harken back to the day. The 60's and 70's are over Joe. Get with the times or fail miserably. Where else could you be top dog for 6 years, fail miserably in every aspect of your job, and stay perched atop the money tree?

[ABA06er]

It is of great relevence when the majority of the critics in this forum are CBA supporters and ABA bashers .......... it is looking more and more like the ABA will be around for a ver long time , while attendence records and company stability show that the CBA is close to the end.

You are correct in that the downward spiral of the CBA has nothing to do with the ABA , but it does have something directly to do with this forum.... Minor League basketball has some problems the ABA as well but atleast the ABA will be around and the ABA has a strong base of teams especially in the Blue North Conference.

It has been said many times in this forum that with out attendence a team can not survive so whats it say when the entire CBA with the exception of YOKAMA (sp) cant even out draw the "poor attendece ABA teams"

Atleast the ABA has the Rochesters, and Vermonts who draw eithe rlarge crowds in huge arenas or sell outs in smaller venues.

"atleast the ABA has fans"

"atleast the ABA will be around for more then the next few months unlike the CBA "

[WHAFAN]

And the ABA attendance is a positive sign? Lets face facts. Not many people care about either one of these leagues. No name players, no name coaches, fly-by-night owners, playing in rec centers. If a team has an arena that holds 300, and they draw 290, is that considered a near sell out? 290 at $5 a pop doesn't pay the bills. The ABA is in season 6, what is better now than in 2000? A year off to reorganize provided what improvements?

[preeths]

It is of great relevence when the majority of the critics in this forum are CBA supporters and ABA bashers .......... it is looking more and more like the ABA will be around for a ver long time , while attendence records and company stability show that the CBA is close to the end.

You are correct in that the downward spiral of the CBA has nothing to do with the ABA , but it does have something directly to do with this forum.... Minor League basketball has some problems the ABA as well but atleast the ABA will be around and the ABA has a strong base of teams especially in the Blue North Conference.

It has been said many times in this forum that with out attendence a team can not survive so whats it say when the entire CBA with the exception of YOKAMA (sp) cant even out draw the "poor attendece ABA teams"

Atleast the ABA has the Rochesters, and Vermonts who draw eithe rlarge crowds in huge arenas or sell outs in smaller venues.

"atleast the ABA has fans"

"atleast the ABA will be around for more then the next few months unlike the CBA "

Hello, pot? This is kettle. The majority of posters in this forum are interested in minor league basketball. No shock. The CBA has existed for decades, so don't be surprised they have a lot of fans in a minor league basketball forum. I've also seen a fair share of USBL fans criticizing the ABA, so don't pretend this is some kind of attack from CBA fans.

Yakama outdraws most ABA teams as does any CBA team that brings in over a few hundred fans, more than what 80 percent (plus) of ABA teams draw. So, in your world, ABA teams can thrive with just dozens of fans in the stands, while CBA teams can't survive with hundreds?

I challenge you once again to start listing the strong ABA teams outside of Rochester and Vermont. You're an ABA fan. Quit trying to deflect attention from the league's problems and defend the ABA with facts, not attacks on the CBA.

[rams80]

It is of great relevence when the majority of the critics in this forum are CBA supporters and ABA bashers .......... it is looking more and more like the ABA will be around for a ver long time , while attendence records and company stability show that the CBA is close to the end.

You are correct in that the downward spiral of the CBA has nothing to do with the ABA , but it does have something directly to do with this forum.... Minor League basketball has some problems the ABA as well but atleast the ABA will be around and the ABA has a strong base of teams especially in the Blue North Conference.

It has been said many times in this forum that with out attendence a team can not survive so whats it say when the entire CBA with the exception of YOKAMA (sp) cant even out draw the "poor attendece ABA teams"

Atleast the ABA has the Rochesters, and Vermonts who draw eithe rlarge crowds in huge arenas or sell outs in smaller venues.

"atleast the ABA has Rochester and Vermont"

"atleast Rochester and Vermont will be around for more then the next few months unlike the other 40-odd band of franchises that are on varying forms of life support that make up this league "

(fixed it) ;)

For the record I'm pretty much neutral on the whole thing. I have no dog in this fight (shoot, my hometown has an ABA team). I will say that I have pretty much come to expect the worst from the ABA based on the last 2-3 years. That's not bashing; that's common sense.

[sportsguy12]

On the CBA forum posters are now talking about the poor attendence of the CBA and folding of the league coming sooner then later....

This post is from the CBA Forum....

Opening Game attendance CBA...... NOT GOOD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When one company owns three to four teams in one league, something will give very soon. This business model will NOT work. CBA will not survive with such poor turnouts ( exception Yakama). The company that owns the teams does NOT appear to have the funds to sustain the teams over the long haul. This is based on insider information and how accurate it is , we shall soon see.
Meanwhile it looks like some company has invested a ton of money into the ABA, now where that will take them, time will also tell. The NBA teams are now seriously considering placing NBDL teams in there own cities, again how smart is that? Time will tell. By the way...what time is it in minor league basketball???


* For all of the critics of the ABA whats it say that the ABA will be around when the CBA folds , soon very soon.

Most of us don't root for the ABA to fail, or the CBA to fail, or the D-League to fail. I think what posters are seeking is accountability.

If I am driving and I hit another driver. I stop and we exchange information so the dent can be fixed. I don't drive off and skirt my responsibility. No matter what team you own, in whatever league, you must pay your bills and disseminate the truth.

Teams in ABA and the NIFL have a track record of disappearing or changing their schedules/cancelling games and not letting people know. I can't think of another league where this takes place on a regular basis. Can you explain why a league would allow teams to operate and not play their scheduled games?

I'm not speaking about specific teams or a certain division. I'm speaking about the fact that this takes place. I can't think of any hockey, basketball, baseball or football leagues besides the NIFL and ABA that don't play their games and have renegade teams that leave trails of unpaid bills. I don't care about 1-2 teams that are OK. I don't care about groups that own 4 teams - MLS has one group that owns almost half of the league and they've been around a decade now.

Anxious for a reply.

The criticism is that the ABA always makes excuses and has never been accountable for their actions, or lack thereof.

[Sam Hill]

I love how a message board post is now admitted as evidence that something is true.

ABA06er, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Take care of your own house. Theirs doesn't come out of yours.

[bdaly]

I have found it ironic that many who are so critical of the ABA are the biggest supporters of the CBA in its current form. Fact of the matter is this year the CBA has made the very same mistakes the ABA has in the past. The owner of the Vancouver CBA franchise created a mess in the ABA, yet he came on board, and shockingly the team decided not to play close to the season. Last second team additions are another issue in the CBA, although it was partially for the sake of survival.

Now, the CBA certainly has a rich past, which is nice. Of course, the past is different than the present (as we know with the ABA). The CBA has a very different group of people this year. I still think this season could collapse for the CBA if their owners don't have lots of cash. There are too many (real) crowds under a 1,000 for a league with hefty travel. And, most successful teams have an early honeymoon period which these teams clearly aren't seeing. I don't like the odds.

But, I don't know, perhaps the owners have very deep pockets. The ABA's advantage is travel right now (assuming a region doesn't collapse). Ultimately, the ABA has lots to fix (I agree focusing on saturating one region at a time might be wisest). But, the CBA's current model isn't viable. So either teams are going to have to deal with being in the red this year, or everyone won't make it through. And, it's unfortunate they've made a few of the mistakes they have.

Ultimately, I hope the CBA does well. I wouldn't mind seeing a Empire State division in the CBA. But, I really believe the Razorsharks were wise not to jump yet. Both from a financial and stability standpoint. They will play a full 18 games at the BCA this year even if teams fold because it's easy enough to slot in other northeastern teams. In the meantime, they can watch what happens with the CBA and D-League. The early results out of the CBA were what I expected/feared--the fact Yakama is the lone team to draw a crowd over 2K is telling enough.

Let's just say both leagues have plenty of work ahead. The ABA has too many teams, while the CBA is way too spread out with some markets that look questionable. Perhaps the CBA is more willing to learn (less stuborn), although it seems like the league is always small and spread all over the map.

[heavesrock]

Here are my opinions: I like the ABA. I like the CBA. I could care less about the D-League. I hate Joe Newman. I hate the CBA stealing the ABA teams. I hate the D-LEague stealing the CBA teams. I just wish Newman would leave, get kicked out, die, or something. I like the low travel cost idea of the ABA. I would like to see an 8 division league with 5 STABLE teams in each. Now, there are only about 20 teams in the ABA that I would give admittance to my league. I hope the CBA recovers and returns to it's former glory.

BTW, those 20 teams are:
Arkansas Aeros
Arkansas Rivercatz
Beijing Aoshen Olympians
Bellingham Slam
Buffalo Silverbacks
CApe Cod Frenzy
Chicago Rockstars
Hollywood FAme
JAcksonville Jam
Maryland Nighthawks
Miami Tropics
Newark Express
Peoria Kings
Quebec City KEbekwa
Peoria Kings
Strong Island Sound
Twin City BAllers
Vermont Frost Heaves
Wilmington Sea Dawgs
THat is actually only 19 teams, but it's close enough.

[sportsguy12]

Here are my opinions: I like the ABA. I like the CBA. I could care less about the D-League. I hate Joe Newman. I hate the CBA stealing the ABA teams. I hate the D-LEague stealing the CBA teams. I just wish Newman would leave, get kicked out, die, or something. I like the low travel cost idea of the ABA. I would like to see an 8 division league with 5 STABLE teams in each. Now, there are only about 20 teams in the ABA that I would give admittance to my league. I hope the CBA recovers and returns to it's former glory.

BTW, those 20 teams are:
Arkansas Aeros
Arkansas Rivercatz
Beijing Aoshen Olympians
Bellingham Slam
Buffalo Silverbacks
CApe Cod Frenzy
Chicago Rockstars
Hollywood FAme
JAcksonville Jam
Maryland Nighthawks
Miami Tropics
Newark Express
Peoria Kings
Quebec City KEbekwa
Peoria Kings
Strong Island Sound
Twin City BAllers
Vermont Frost Heaves
Wilmington Sea Dawgs
THat is actually only 19 teams, but it's close enough.

You're going to have to find 21 more teams to keep travel costs low. The problem is you can't have massive expansion without have a few duds. The ABA has time and time proved that, except they seem to have a lot of duds.
You also left out Rochester?

For as much as you could care less about the D-League, the CBA has stolen more ABA teams than the D-League has stolen CBA teams.

It would be great if they could all work together, with the D-League as the AAA developmental league. The CBA as the feeder for the D-League and the ABA feeding the CBA.

But I think that's at least a 5 year process. Everyone has there get-big, get-rich quick schemes and they aren't working.

All of the leagues could be at 30 teams, like the NBA. So each NBA team would have 3 affiliates. I don't know if that's realistic.

[Arkansas Connection]

Upon reading posts on different threads out here, you guys have pretty good things to say (usually) about the Arkansas teams. Granted attendance hasn't been ideal for both teams, but help me understand why you have good (at least from my perspective) impressions about the Aeros and RiverCatz? Being as both are in their first year it's hard to tell if things are being done right or not compared to others. Winning does make a difference, but what else (pros, cons)? Just a question. Want to know what others are basing their info on.

[preeths]

I'll say this for the Arkansas teams, both communicate well, and that's a good sign. They disseminate their game scores and recaps very quickly.

[Arkansas Connection]

for the insight.. Know they have two good teams but it's been hard for them to get stuff when they go on the road.. Seems like when they play the S. Alabamas, the Wacos, the Mississippis, the Houstons, we see nothing on them.. Wish league had a way of enforcing something on those home teams that don't furnish scores and stats... You can't rely on the Arkansas coaches to have to call everyone, scores maybe, but if there are no stats, it's hard to give much.. It must cripple their ability to produce cumulative stats as well..

[heavesrock]

You're going to have to find 21 more teams to keep travel costs low. The problem is you can't have massive expansion without have a few duds. The ABA has time and time proved that, except they seem to have a lot of duds.
You also left out Rochester?

For as much as you could care less about the D-League, the CBA has stolen more ABA teams than the D-League has stolen CBA teams.

It would be great if they could all work together, with the D-League as the AAA developmental league. The CBA as the feeder for the D-League and the ABA feeding the CBA.

But I think that's at least a 5 year process. Everyone has there get-big, get-rich quick schemes and they aren't working.

All of the leagues could be at 30 teams, like the NBA. So each NBA team would have 3 affiliates. I don't know if that's realistic.


I did leave out Rochester by mistake. Sorry. I said I would like to a 40 team league-not 20. But I believe there are only about 20 teams in existence now that I would admit to such a league if I ran it. And also, notice that I said, "I hate the CBA stealing the ABA teams." I never said I liked it.

[sportsguy12]

I did leave out Rochester by mistake. Sorry. I said I would like to a 40 team league-not 20. But I believe there are only about 20 teams in existence now that I would admit to such a league if I ran it. And also, notice that I said, "I hate the CBA stealing the ABA teams." I never said I liked it.

And I said if you have 20 ADDITIONAL teams to make 40, which is the root of the ABA's problem. Over-expansion too quickly. This is the vicious cycle that is created every year.

You should create a solid league, play a year or two. THEN EXPAND SLOWLY.