Corning NY??? How?

[mjf0509@stny.rr.com]

Corning NY is getting a new ABA team? I am stunned, we are a pretty rural area, Corning's population is about 15k. Not sure how long this will survive.... We can barely keep a Wal-mart open.

[BasketballUSA]

Corning was suppose to get a CBA team, then the CBA realized is doesnt get cold enough in that City so they went back to focusing on Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota and any other small city that has an average temp in January of minus 25 degrees. AND why Corning for the ABA? Joe needed a mortgage payment or a new fur coat for the Mrs., yes, Ill say it was for a fur coat.

[Corning Tax Payer]

I live in Corning , NY. This city LOVES basketball , high school games are packed to the house and other then high school sports we have nothing to do around here , I read about this in the paper and the buzz in the stores I have been in today is amazing everyone is talking about this and is very excited, I got a tip from a buddy of mine in Elmra that they are going to have full coverage on the evening news at 6pm nd 11pm tonight on the Elmira tv station and the horseheads tv station , surrounding cities of Corning are already adopting this team as the whole regions team and they are brand new. Before you take cheap shots at Corning get the info from the majority of the people who pay the taxes here , a pro basketball team in Corning is just what we needed and I have already talked to over 30 people who want season tickets , I just wish they had a huge arena to play in because the only thing I worry about is season tickets selling out and not getting into the markee games against Rochester and Buffalo. Anyways Corning Bulldogs keep doing what your doing , this whole city is behind you 110%

Bulldogs fan
saying best wishes

[Chuck the Writer]

Actually, despite bkbUSA's sarcasm filter not working properly, I found a report on the Corning Bulldogs from their local newspaper, and true to form, it's a typical ABA basketball debut announcement.

Basketball franchise coming to Corning
BY CHRIS GILL
Published: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:34 PM CDT
cmgill@the-leader.com

INDIANAPOLIS | A former Corning Community College basketball player says he is putting an American Basketball Association franchise in the Crystal City as early as next year, according to a report on abalive.com, the ABA's official Web site.

Where the Corning Bulldogs will play and how they will compete with markets like Buffalo, San Diego and Hollywood, Calif., is still a mystery.

I guess the reporter didn't realize that the Corning Bulldogs wouldn't be playing these other franchises unless Corning actually won some games, then they'd end up as the "travel squad" for teams who folded in mid-season.

The surprise announcement was made Tuesday, so unexpected no one told the city's mayor.

Because, of course, nothing says community announcement like leaving the mayor out of a press conference announcing your new professional sports team.

“I know nothing about a pro basketball team. I haven't heard a word about it,” said Corning Mayor Frank Coccho.

See my previous statement.

Geneva resident James Schutz, who played for the Red Barons in 2002-03, has partnered with author/accountant Jeannine DeLine to operate the Bulldogs. Schutz did not return phone messages left by The Leader as of press time, but was quoted on the ABA Web site.

I don't know much about Schutz, but I did find out from the corningbulldogs.com website about Ms. DeLine. I'll comment on that later in this post.

“Corning is such a wonderful small-knit community; the whole time I was in Corning, everyone was so kind, it really made me feel like my home away from home,” Schutz was quoted as saying. “Being able to give something back to Corning, N.Y., a place that I still hold fond memories of is a dream come true. I believe the ABA in Corning will be embraced with open arms by the community.”

Yeah, as soon as they get a day off from working at the glass factory.

“We are pleased to have two very interesting and enthusiastic owners in James R. Schutz and Jeannine DeLine,” ABA chief operating officer Joe Newman said in the same statement. “We have been working very closely with them; they both are very talented and knowledgeable about sports and business and will add much to the league.”

Newmanspeak - did the check clear? It did?

The site that makes the most sense is Corning Community College's gymnasium, a 2,000-seat facility on Spencer Hill, Schutz's old stomping grounds.

“They have contacted us and we have spoken about the possibility,” CCC athletic director Stacy Johnson said of potentially hosting an ABA team. The Gymnasium has adequate facilities, having hosted the NJCAA Division III tournament for a decade, and meets the basic requirements for an ABA team.

Well at least the team will play indoors...

“We have several small-town teams that are able to be successful,” said ABA director of operations Brad Hester told The Leader by phone. “We're not trying to be the NBA.”

And as Joe Newman's son-in-law points out, the ABA is definitely not trying to be the NBA - despite claims from Unca Joe that the ABA could beat the NBA's best in an all-star contest (it's in an Ask the CEO somewhere)

Hester cited teams in San Diego and Mississippi, which hold ABA games in 1,200-1,500 seat gyms, two franchises the league considers viable. That's a plus since there isn't a basketball court with seating for much more than 2,000 people anywhere in Corning.

San Diego? Wait isn't that an expansion squad for this season? And didn't Mississippi fall apart when some of the teams folded last year due to Hurricane Katrina? This is viable???

As for finances, the typical ABA team operates in a $400,000 window with a $120,000 salary cap to fit its roster of up to 15 players. Corning would likely play franchises in Rochester, Buffalo and Brooklyn, and serve the ABA's intent of expansion east of Ohio. Rochester and Buffalo were expansion teams during the 2005-06 season.

Expansion east of Ohio - hmm, I guess those franchises in Montreal, Cape Cod and Strong Island must be WEST of Ohio...

According to the release, Achutz is confident Corning can compete with larger markets.

“We will not be coming into the ABA next season playing for second place,” he was quoted on abalive.com “We are dedicated to winning and putting the best product possible onto the court for all of the southern tier of New York.”

Right... the best way to make it to first place is hope that your division mates fold before the season ends.

Oh, and as for that co-owner of the Bulldogs, get a load of this from the corningbulldogs.com website:

Jeannine DeLine is a native of upstate New York and has had a lifetime interest in sports, including tennis, skiing, horse racing and basketball. Five-two and too short to play herself, Ms. DeLine chose a professional life in accounting, but has kept in touch with her interest in the sports world by offering her financial skills to the Ringer Lakes Racino in Farmington NY.

The "Ringer Lakes Racino?" I don't know if the press release was supposed to say "Finger Lakes Racino" or "Ringer Fakes Racino" or what. Yes, I know a "racino" is a horse track with slot machines, but in New York there is a region called the Finger Lakes. Although Ringer Lakes sounds more like an Unca Joe proposition...

Aside from her passion for sports, Ms. DeLine is an avid reader and successful writer, co-winning second place in the national 2005 Xerox Aspiring Author contest with her sister, Bobbi L'Huillier. Set in 1963, their novel, "The Long Black Veil", is a coming of age story between a drifter and a little girl, and a love story between a black musician and a married white woman. When protagonist Jamie Delacroix stumbles across the hidden affair, he sets off a chain of events that risks destroying the little girls' family and the black man's life.

The Long Black Veil is available at www.lulu.com/delhui.

And for all of you out there, lulu.com is a publishing house where you can have whatever you want published - so long as the check clears.

Hey, maybe this team is a perfect fit for the ABA.

[bdaly]

Bare in mind with Elmira and a few other surrounding communities, Corning isn't as small as one might assume. And, yes, it should be Fingers Lakes Racino. It's a successful Racino in Canandaigua/Farmington (south of Rochester).

[Corning Tax Payer]

People like chuck the writer are not smart enough to realize that with the close surrounding cities including the largest one , Elmira who apparently is going to be running the team on tonights 6pm and 11pm news is not aware that when they are inculded they actually have a very large draw of people.
As far as Ms. Deline goes I did look her up and she really did win 2nd in a nation wide author contest and if you actually look up her site you would see that her book is about to be published by a publisher in NYC. Finger Lakes Gaming and Race Track is the official name of the Racino and to my knowledge it is the most sucessfull racino in all of New York State which has many. If she is doing the accounting for a company that handles millions upon millions of $ each day I would have to feel confident in her running a minor leaque basketball teams finances , some one with her expereince is what most teams in this leaque lack. Before you bash people do your research cause you just make yourself look like a fool. As far as Schutz goes I as well do not know much on him other then I did find some old basketball articles on him from games against Tompkins Cortland CC and Canton State University from 2003 and his basketball talent is nothing short of amazing. This is one from that same news paper in which the story was printed it is a 21 point 10 rebound performance in which the head coach praises Schutz on his shooting ability.

http://www.the-leader.com/articles/2003/01/26/sports/sports02.txt

So to sum it up we have a accounting wiz who runs a multimillion dollar a day companys finances and a former junior college basketball stand out as co-owners of the team in Corning, NY , I think knowing this should open the eyes to many critics , of course we wouldnt expect chuck the writers eyes to open anytime soon though ;)

[rams80]

So to sum it up we have a accounting wiz who runs a multimillion dollar a day companys finances and a former junior college basketball stand out as co-owners of the team in Corning, NY , I think knowing this should open the eyes to many critics , of course we wouldnt expect chuck the writers eyes to open anytime soon though ;)

So which one are you?

[Chuck the Writer]

People like chuck the writer are not smart enough to realize that with the close surrounding cities including the largest one , Elmira who apparently is going to be running the team on tonights 6pm and 11pm news is not aware that when they are inculded they actually have a very large draw of people.

I wonder if they'll bring up the fact that Elmira once had a professional basketball team in the old ABL in the 1950's, the Elmira Colonels, that pretty much fell apart in its first season...

Before you bash people do your research cause you just make yourself look like a fool.

Right. Let's see what happens when the Bulldogs take the court and their opening night opponent can't get to the arena because they ran out of money. Then what are those season ticket holders going to think? Believe me, this is a tried and true issue that has gone on in the ABA for the past two or three years. At least Corning is taking a full year to get ready for the league, as opposed to the seven or eight more frachises Unca Joe's about to announce for this season.

So to sum it up we have a accounting wiz who runs a multimillion dollar a day companys finances

You mean "whiz." A "wiz" is something you take when you've had too much to drink.

and a former junior college basketball stand out

Well don't let him stand out, let him in it's cold outside! ;-) But seriously, just because a person was a halfway decent basketball player does not necessarily make him or her a qualified team owner. Two words to prove that - Isiah Thomas.

I think knowing this should open the eyes to many critics , of course we wouldnt expect chuck the writers eyes to open anytime soon though ;)

Oh I think there will be lots of eyes opened this season. In fact, just watch the 2006-07 season and see how many franchises actually play all 36 games, how many show up at the right arenas wearing the right uniforms, etc. Maybe you need to open your eyes as well. But in this case, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[heavesrock]

Calm Down people. If Corning Tax Payer wants to support the team he has every right to support the team. If the team fails Chuck the Writer is proven right. Its no big deal. Although I have one question: Why do you want the ABA to fail? Even if its CEO is a scam artist that doesn't mean the teams should all go down in flames.

[bdaly]

In fact, just watch the 2006-07 season and see how many franchises actually play all 36 games, how many show up at the right arenas wearing the right uniforms, etc. Maybe you need to open your eyes as well. But in this case, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Kind of like how the CBA might be this season. It's already dropped two teams very close to the start of the season. This was after they added teams at the last second. The CBA smells like the ABA, just with less teams and more travel. And, the number of ABA teams is what allows the league to complete the season to some degree. I expect to be entertained both the business of both leagues this season. Indiana, as one example, will need to get in the habit of four figure attendance numbers to make it...

[Corning Tax Payer]

From the sounds of it im glad the owners of the Corning Bulldogs decided to go with the ABA instead of the CBA , the CBA 8 teams and dwindling seems to be on its last leg while the ABA keeps expanding. did some more research and love the idea of having a bunch of team in regions until the playoffs , it heats up a rivalry and cutts down on expensive flight fees.


Ps. The coverage of the Corning Bulldogs on the evening news in the area was nothing short of amazing , looking forward to hearing all about it tommorow from the local residents in my area. It seems every city in the southern tier is ready to welcome the Corning Bulldogs and the press coverage on the tv stations is awesome.

Proud day for Corning!

[BreakersFan]

Take this from someone who lives in northern PA: Me thinks Corning Tax Payer has been sniffing too much of something at the glass works. Corning is in fact a nice city and the Corning-Elmira area is a great sports area. It is in fact a great hoops area.

So on Fridays or Saturdays in Dec, Jan, and Feb when the Corning East boys or girls or Corning West boys or girls are home, or the Elmira Jackals are home, will all those fans go to a high school game for $3 a ticket, Jackals hockey for $9 a ticket, or pay $10 a ticket to go to the Bulldogs game and hope that a) the Bulldogs opponent actually shows up b) the refs are paid cash so they actually show up, and c) the Bulldogs themselves are more than just local playground players.

I think they'll pick the high school game. As a thrice-burned minor league hoops fan, I hope this works out for Corning, but after reading the press release, this reeks of the usual ABA scam.

The owner once scored 21 points and got 10 boards in single game? Amazing! The other owner is 5'2" and once wrote a book? You're right, every game will be a sell-out!!!

Maybe the next Red White and Blue ABA Concert can be held in Corning!

[Chuck the Writer]

From the sounds of it im glad the owners of the Corning Bulldogs decided to go with the ABA instead of the CBA , the CBA 8 teams and dwindling seems to be on its last leg while the ABA keeps expanding. did some more research and love the idea of having a bunch of team in regions until the playoffs , it heats up a rivalry and cutts down on expensive flight fees.

Um... the CBA isn't "dwindling." The league has hovered between seven and ten teams since at least 1997, which was the last time a CBA team folded in mid-season (the San Diego Wildcards). The league had eight teams in its last two seasons, and seven the year before. Heck, the CBA at one time had four franchises start a season (1974-75) and is still around today. Did the league have eight teams last year? Yes. Did three of them move to the D-League? Yes. Did three other teams fall apart? Yes. Did six new expansion teams come into the league? Yes. 8 minus 3 minus 3 plus 6 equals 8. And all of this done, in the last few years, without an NBA developmental contract. QED.

The regionalization of the ABA works well for college teams, whose games are subsidized by boosters and college tuition (and also by the little fact that college playes don't get officially paid). But there were teams in the ABA last season who weren't expecting to have to fly anywhere, but when half their division got wiped out due to poor management or schedule conflicts or whatnot, those teams suddenly had to fly to other divisions to help finish schedules. Some divisions got merged, and teams that normally were only a bus ride away now had to incur flight costs. It's like someone getting punched in the elbow, but the black and blue mark spreads all the way up and down the arm.

[rams80]

I'm always mystified by the number of people who seem to equate massive expansion with instant, guaranteed success.

Can anyone give me an ABA team that played its full 36-game schedule last season? And if one did, did they play the schedule as initially announced, or was it revised/did they play replacement teams?

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

CTP-
I think it's great that you are excited for the Bulldogs (or as I saw elsewhere - the Corn-dogs - I thought it was funny :D ).

The new owners need one thing above all else, besides a good accounting job and a 21 point game in college - $$$$$$$$.

The article in the local paper grossly underestimates the capital needed to field a team properly - funding a staff, marketing, PR, equipment, rental fees, travel fees, insurance, etc.

I worked for a man with FAR better stats as a player than your co-owner. He ran the team essentially out of his back pocket for the season due to circumstances, yet every bill was paid, every trip was made, and every player got a check every pay period. In the end, the financial burden is a HUGE undertaking, and the historical path for teams in the ABA is to stop travel to away games, and to trim home games to avoid paying rental fees to their venue.

It takes a great deal more than enthusiasm to put a successful franchise together. My advice to you would be to sit back and watch the ABA closely this season. Hopefully, there have been people and changes put in place to allow the league to solidify itself as a viable entity. Hopefully, history won't repeat itself - again.

At least - for Corning - they get a free ticket to watch the show this year.

[Corning Tax Payer]

The Corning Bulldogs dont even start play until next year and they are all over the tv stations in this area. They already have more coverage then the jackals hockey team who are in season as we speak. Season tickets will be sold out as soon as they go on sale , I know I have already submitted an email to suggest a waiting list first come first serve so I can get my season tickets , I know alot of people I have talked to want to get tickets , pro basketball in Corning , NY will be the #1 attraction sports wise in the Corning/Elmira area, what are we a day into this. You should have seen the interviews on the news the co-owner James Schutz had , he really sounded like he had a great game plan everyone was impressed , James Schutz was rather smooth and impressive talking on these tv stations. The horsheads channel played a 5 minute taped interview and the elmira station played a 3 minute tape interview and they both sports anchors went on talking about James and his former past as Junior College player in the area.

The buzz is great in the Corning/Elmira area

Corning Bulldogs , keep doin what your doin !
:cool: :D

[Chuck the Writer]

pro basketball in Corning , NY will be the #1 attraction sports wise in the Corning/Elmira area, what are we a day into this.

I guess nobody's going to Watkins Glen to watch the NASCAR races any more...

You should have seen the interviews on the news the co-owner James Schutz had , he really sounded like he had a great game plan everyone was impressed , James Schutz was rather smooth and impressive talking on these tv stations.

Talk is talk. Let's see him talk when the bill collectors call and they don't have a marquee team like the Razorsharks or the Frost Heaves coming in for a game.

The horsheads channel played a 5 minute taped interview and the elmira station played a 3 minute tape interview and they both sports anchors went on talking about James and his former past as Junior College player in the area.

I recommend you pick up a copy of this book called "The Peter Principle." It theorizes that in a hierarchy, an individual tends to rise to his or her level of incompetence. For example, a very qualified school teacher might make a lousy principal, or a semi-adequate governor might make a crummy president. I just don't see how scoring baskets can help you run a team. It didn't help Michael Jordan.

[preeths]

I'm always mystified by the number of people who seem to equate massive expansion with instant, guaranteed success.

A great point. Numbers do not necessarily mean strength.

[BreakersFan]

I know alot of people I have talked to want to get tickets , pro basketball in Corning , NY will be the #1 attraction sports wise in the Corning/Elmira area, what are we a day into this. You should have seen the interviews on the news the co-owner James Schutz had , he really sounded like he had a great game plan everyone was impressed , James Schutz was rather smooth and impressive talking on these tv stations.

:cool: :D


Hey CTP, I salute your enthusiasm and I hope that everything works out for the CornDogs, but given a Friday night choice of $3 to see a Corning West or Corning East game or $10 to see a CornDogs game that may or may not actually happen, the choice is pretty clear.

Even if they get 1000 fans per game (keep in mind that most ABA teams get a few hundred, even in larger areas), play all 18 home games (keep in mind that no ABA teams actually complete their original schedule), at $10/ticket that is only $180,000. According to the paper, costs run at least $400,000.

So here is what is probably happening: 20something owner uses AmEx card to pay $10K expansion fee and announces team with big splash of publicity. Team then either is never heard from again or plays 1-2 games before folding, leaving season ticket holders and sponsors holding an empty bag with no hope of refunds.

This unfortunate pattern has nothing to do with Corning. It has played out time and time again in the ABA - that is the real reason you're getting all this negativity. If the team ever plays a game, enjoy it while you have it.

[Sam Hill]

I have already talked to over 30 people who want season tickets , I just wish they had a huge arena to play in because the only thing I worry about is season tickets selling out and not getting into the markee games against Rochester and Buffalo.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!





Oh, wait, you were serious?

[bomp]

Why not put a team in Horsheads? Jamestown? :)

I think it will be very interesting to watch this play out. CTP is just excited. Let him enjoy the moment.

[nksports]

It's nothing personal CTP. These people have watched ABA teams fail for years. Last year, nearly 50 percent of the games had to be canceled due to teams folding outright or getting into financial distress. The league mearly replaced those teams with more groups with shaky finances.

Uncle Joe puts some funky *&@^#% in his bong that gets owners who think they'll be the next George Steinbrenner but without his kind of money. After they max out their credit cards and spend the season ticket deposits and tryout fees before playing game one, they get in panic mode and have to fold after just a few people show up for the season opener and the bills come due. It plays out the same way, year-in and year-out, over and over again. By this time next year, you'll be just as jaded as the rest of us and telling the next guy to avoid Uncle Joe and the ABA.
Minor league basketball is one of the riskiest ventures there is. Even the mighty NBA hasn't made it work in two tries (they owned the CBA for a time and are still trying to figure out how to make the D-League make money).
I live in USBA territory, which is a league that's sent its share of players to the NBA. Even with a high level of talent and less competition in the late spring and early summer from other things, it struggles.
You're proud of where you live and of what your community is trying to do. We're just keeping it real with the ABA.

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

CTP-
As a quick history lesson, between 2004-05 and 05-06, approximately 90 different franchises were affiliated with the ABA for varying periods of time. ALL were announced to great pomp and circumstance, and their ownership groups were lauded by Joe as first class, well qualified and nothing short of brilliant. Many of those teams failed to play as many as 10 games - some played none, some lasted both seasons, some played one year and drifted away.

Of the 52 teams (as of today) playing this year, exactly 15 completed last season and returned (a couple 'disappeared' early last year, only to re-appear this year). Not exactly a strong, established base to build upon for a league. Thsi sort of trend has occurred every season in the ABA. The league has yet - in its history - to complete a season and play every scheduled game.

Your enthusiasm for the CornDogs is great; if there were more like you in other markets, more teams might survive.

As an aside, the league made a big deal about the minimum mandatory requirements for a team to join the ABA. Obviously, in Corning's case (and others), they have lowered their requirements. A venue originally needed a minimum of 3,000 seats.

[Sam Hill]

Even the mighty NBA hasn't made it work in two tries (they owned the CBA for a time and are still trying to figure out how to make the D-League make money).

They didn't own the CBA.

They made Isiah an offer and he rejected it, proving he's as bad a businessman as he is a coach and GM.

Had Isiah sold the CBA when the NBA offered, the NBDL would not have come into being, because the CBA would have become the NBA's developmental league.

The CBA and NBA had a working agreement by which the CBA was the official developmental league of the NBA for years and years, but the NBA never "owned" the CBA.

[panchess]

..quite honestly the smaller markets make more sense for the ABA. Nobody was laughing at Vermont or Cape Cod, which are in similar sized markets. It is far easier to get publicity in these kinds of markets than in "major league" towns. Even Gallup made it through the season last year, which is a smaller market (though it may be a larger city) than Elmira-Corning.

Having said that, what is the venue of this team? Where is the first-year capital, as even a team with a reasonable marketing plan is going to lose money as a start-up. Elmira has the downtown arena, but Corning only has the community college, and Elmira College, which is closer to Elmira than Corning. It doesn;t seem to say on the web site how big the CCC gym is.

Corning is still a company town. If Corning, Inc. was behind the team, it definitely would happen, but that kind of thing has become less of their mission in recent years. They sold Watkins Glen race track, for example.

.

[Corning Tax Payer]

the paper sais that Corning CC holds 2,000 people and that the atheltic director has been contacted by the owners of the bulldogs and that they have discussed the possiablites of playing the home games at CCC she was directly quoted in the paper on these things then it went on to talk about how they have hosted the Region III junior college tourney for the past decade and how good the facilities are. And how it meets the ABA requirements. I have been in the gym before it is a nice gym, and the outside looks amazing as they have alot of glass on the front entrance and it is a very big building in which it is in. It makes the most sense for them to play at CCC , I can only speculate but is sounds like they are working to get things finalized why else would the Atheltic Director have chose to comment on them contacting her and about hosting the Region III for a decade and how it meets ABA requirements. I hope they play at CCC , I will keep you guys posted as your not as bad as you all seemed at first , atleast some of you have an open mind on some things discussed. Personally I think people would go see them play wherever they end up playing , but I think CCC is best. Does anyone know wether the AD whos there now was the AD when the owner of the Bulldogs played there ? that would be good news if they already have a personal relationship.


GO BULLDOGS!

[psbf]

I'm new to this thread, but I've read all the posts and I feel the need to make a couple of corrections.
I lost track of who made them, but Mississippi is still alive, although under a new name(they are now the Miracles) and Strong Island will be playing next season after recently stepping out. Tampa Bay is also taking a leave(I mentioned them just for the heck of it).

Also, it was asked if any team played all season in the ABA last year. Yes, many did, but one who stands out is Rochester, since they won the title.

Another thing, it was also mentioned about the small capacity. Bellingham plays in a small arena(1,100) as does Maryland.

[rams80]

Also, it was asked if any team played all season in the ABA last year. Yes, many did, but one who stands out is Rochester, since they won the title.



I asked how many teams played the full 36 games, not how many finished the season. There is a difference.

[BreakersFan]

I'm new to this thread, but I've read all the posts and I feel the need to make a couple of corrections.

Also, it was asked if any team played all season in the ABA last year. Yes, many did, but one who stands out is Rochester, since they won the title.



That is not true. I don't think one single ABA team completed it's 36 game schedule. Not even Rochester. Rochester won the play-off tournament, but did not play a complete schedule as announced. The Razorsharks played 27 regular season games and went 23-4. Then they won 3 play-off games to finish 26-4.

[psbf]

ok, then I stand corrected on that. They are the only Championship team that I know of, not to play a complete schedule.

[BasketballUSA]

Rochester played to a 26 - 4 Regular season record. Played 4 play-off games to finish 30 -4. My book shows they beat the following in the play- offs....Newark, Atlanta, San Jose, Southern California.

[psbf]

It's good to know that your such a big fan of the Razorsharks, USA. So, they only played 30 games during the regular season.

[BasketballUSA]

Yes, Im a basketball fan, an objective basketball fan. Rochester more than likely could have played many more games if the teams they were scheduled to play did not fold. The same could be said for other teams like, Buffalo, Indiana, Montreal, Strong island. The ABA has some solid teams with a lot of weak teams, and I mean weak financially.

[Sam Hill]

Hey, now - ABA teams do not fold. Joe kicks them out. :)

[Chuck the Writer]

Yes, Im a basketball fan, an objective basketball fan. Rochester more than likely could have played many more games if the teams they were scheduled to play did not fold. The same could be said for other teams like, Buffalo, Indiana, Montreal, Strong island. The ABA has some solid teams with a lot of weak teams, and I mean weak financially.

Let's try something here. I happen to own a Rochester Razorsharks pocket schedule for the 2005-06 season. This was what their 36-game debut season was scheduled to look like.

November 5, hosting Buffalo Rapids
November 12, hosting Newark Express
November 13, at Maryland Nighthawks
November 16, hosting Strong Island
November 19, hosting Montreal Matrix
November 24, hosting Niagara Daredevils
November 26, at Strong Island Sound
December 8, at NEPA Breakers
December 10, hosting Maryland Nighthawks
December 17, hosting Strong Islnad Sound
December 18, at Harlem Strong Dogs
December 21, hosting NEPA Breakers
December 23, at Buffalo Rapids
December 30, at NEPA Breakers
December 31, hosting Harlem Strong Dogs
January 1, at Niagara Rapids
January 4, hosting Boston Frenzy
January 7, at Maryland Nighthawks
January 11, at Buffalo Rapids
January 14, hosting Niagara Rapids
January 20, at Montreal Matrix
January 21, at NEPA Breakers
January 24, at Boston Frenzy
January 26, hosting Buffalo Rapids
January 28, at Niagara Rapids
February 5, hosting Harlem Strong Dogs
February 10, at Boston Frenzy
February 17, at Newark Express
February 18, at Niagara Rapids
February 20, hosting Maryland Nighthawks
February 23, hosting NEPA Breakers
February 24, at Montreal Matrix
February 26, hosting Montreal Matrix
March 3, at Harlem Strong Dogs
March 5, hosting Boston Frenzy
March 7, hosting Buffalo Rapids
PLAYOFFS

Now, let's compare that schedule with what REALLY happened that season. I'm listing Rochester's entire regular season track record, as well as the record of scheduled games being played versus games that were either not played, or played against a replacement opponent.

November 5, hosting Buffalo Rapids (Rochester wins, 89-88, 1-0 record, 1-0 played scheduled game)
November 12, hosting Newark Express (Rochester wins 103-99, 2-0 record, 2-0 playing scheduled game)
November 13, at Maryland Nighthawks (Rochester wins 120-102, 3-0 record, 3-0 playing scheduled game)
November 16, hosting Strong Island (Rochester loses 123-112, 3-1 record, 4-0 playing scheduled game)
November 19, hosting Montreal Matrix (Rochester wins 101-79, 4-1 record, 5-0 playing scheduled game)
November 24, hosting Niagara Daredevils (Rochester loses 116-111, 4-2 record, 6-0 playing scheduled games)
November 26, at Strong Island Sound (Rochester wins 94-83, 5-2 record, 7-0 playing scheduled games)
December 8, at NEPA Breakers (Rochester wins 107-86, 6-2 record, 8-0 playing scheduled games)
December 10, hosting Maryland Nighthawks (Rochester wins 126-96, 7-2 record, 9-0 playing scheduled games)
December 17, hosting Strong Islnad Sound (Rochester wins 103-92, 8-2 record, 10-0 playing scheduled games)
December 18, at Harlem Strong Dogs (Rochester loses 119-116, 8-3 record, 11-0 playing scheduled games)
December 21, hosting NEPA Breakers (Rochester wins 114-65, 9-3 record, 12-0 playing scheduled games)
December 23, at Buffalo Rapids (Rochester wins 110-100, 10-3 record, 13-0 playing scheduled games)
December 30, at NEPA Breakers (game not played, Rochester now 13-1 playing scheduled games)
December 31, hosting Harlem Strong Dogs (Rochester wins 101-100, 11-3 record, 14-1 playing scheduled games)
January 1, at Niagara Daredevils (game not played, Rochester now 14-2 playing scheduled games)
January 4, hosting Boston Frenzy (Boston wins 137-89, 12-3 record, 15-2 playing scheduled games)
January 7, at Maryland Nighthawks (Rochester wins 113-111, 13-3 record, 16-2 playing scheduled games)
January 11, at Buffalo Rapids (Rochester wins 94-91, 14-3 record, 17-2 playing scheduled games)
January 14, hosting Niagara Rapids (Baltimore shows up; Rochester wins 135-82, 15-3 record but 17-3 playing scheduled games as Baltimore wasn't the scheduled opponent)
January 20, at Montreal Matrix (Rochester wins 90-89, 16-3 record, 18-3 playing scheduled games)
January 21, at NEPA Breakers (game not played, Rochester now 18-4 playing scheduled games)
January 24, at Boston Frenzy (game not played; Rochester now 18-5 playing scheduled games)
January 26, hosting Buffalo Rapids (Rochester wins 114-87, 17-3 record, 19-5 playing scheduled games)
January 28, at Niagara Rapids (Rochester plays Baltimore in St. Catherines, Ontario, wins 138-106; 18-3 record, 19-6 because Baltimore was not the originally scheduled opponent)
February 5, hosting Harlem Strong Dogs (Rochester wins 94-87, 19-3 record, 20-6 playing scheduled games)
February 10, at Boston Frenzy (game not played; Rochester now 20-7 playing scheduled games)
February 17, at Newark Express (Rochester wins 117-98, 20-3 record, 21-7 playing scheduled games)
February 18, at Niagara Rapids (game not played, Rochester now 21-8 playing scheduled games)
February 20, hosting Maryland Nighthawks (Rochester wins 121-111, 21-3 record, 22-8 playing scheduled games)
February 23, hosting NEPA Breakers (Indiana Alley Cats are replacement opponent; Rochester wins 113-98, now 22-3 record, but 22-9 playing scheduled games because Indiana was not the originally scheduled opponent)
February 24, at Montreal Matrix (Rochester wins 111-86, 23-3 record, 23-9 playing scheduled games)
February 26, hosting Montreal Matrix (Rochester wins 127-93, 24-3 record, 24-9 playing scheduled games)
March 3, at Harlem Strong Dogs (Rochester loses 111-105, 24-4 record, 25-9 playing scheduled games)
March 5, hosting Boston Frenzy (Rochester wins 115-72, 25-4 record, 26-9 playing scheduled games)
March 7, hosting Buffalo Rapids (Rochester wins 106-95, 26-4 record, 27-9 playing scheduled games)

Then come the playoffs, wihch Rochester wins four more games.

Still, this little experiment I came up with is telling. Of the 36 games the Sharks actually had on their opening day pocket schedule, only 27 were actually played on the date scheduled, and against the opponent scheduled, and in the location scheduled. Three games were played against replacement opponents. Seven of the nine games were road contests; while the two home games were played against replacement opponents so that the Sharks would not lose any home dates. In fact, I have it on good authority that the Sharks actually paid the travel costs for the Montreal Matrix to arrive for their final home game (I was at the game, and the Matrix' travel van showed up 90 minutes before tip-off).

So even the league champion team, the marquee franchise of the ABA, still had to work with 25% of their games being cancelled or against replacement opponents.

Let's hope it doesn't happen again this year.

[BasketballUSA]

Thats great Chuck that you are such a fan of Rochester, very nice post, except fot the FACT that Rochester DID NOT pay for Montreal to come.
Rochester paid for Niagra to come and "supposedly" the ABA reimbursed Rochester, which I find hard to believe. I was also at ABA, CBA. USBL games last year. Rochester does have the best orgainzation, close second is Marlyland, Strong Island and a few others from the info that I have obtained.
Rochester is running a first class organization in a third class league. I have spoken to several players for Rochester and they all said the same, of all the leagues they have played in, no organization is a well run as Rochester, That speaks volumes when it comes from players. Players from other ABA teams have said that the teams they play for, Maryland, Strong Island, others, also are OK. Friday I started calling each ABA team, see who answers, what they say to my questions, I will post on Monday the results. Same Ill do to the CBA.
What we really should work on Chuck is to find out why the top 10 teams in the ABA...still stay in the ABA. and why Joe is still lingering around the ABA spinning his non-sense. Yesterday I get a call that 2 teams already have "withdrawn" from the ABA this season, Joe will spin it the only way Joe knows how. Im waiting for the newblood that got on board this summer to run the ABA do something to repair it.

[BreakersFan]

Rochester played to a 26 - 4 Regular season record. Played 4 play-off games to finish 30 -4. My book shows they beat the following in the play- offs....Newark, Atlanta, San Jose, Southern California.


Just for the record, the Our Sports Central site has them going 23-4. The ABA website has them going 24-4. You are coreect that the Sharks won 4 games in the tournament. My mistake.

Also, according to Our Sports Central AND the ABA site, San Jose and Maryland played the most games last year (34 of 36) while Bellevue, New Mexico and Mississippi played just 11 games. Everyone else played some amount in between. 16 of the 31 teams played less than 3/4 of the schedule.

[BreakersFan]

Yes, Im a basketball fan, an objective basketball fan. Rochester more than likely could have played many more games if the teams they were scheduled to play did not fold. The same could be said for other teams like, Buffalo, Indiana, Montreal, Strong island. The ABA has some solid teams with a lot of weak teams, and I mean weak financially.

And that is the problem. That's why ABA teams cannot play their schedule. Because so many people (unfortunately probably like the owners in Corning) actually think they will make money, and by December are so far in debt, they simply stop playing....

That hurts the strong franshises (Rochesters and Vermonts) who then have to explain to sponsors, fans, and the media why their schedule is constantly changing and why teams don't show (that is if they don't round up 10 local guys to be a bogus visiting team).

[Corning Tax Payer]

In a few years it will be Rochester and Vermont looking up to Corning and saying how can we be like them ....

I have reaserched all of the owners and no one has the financial background such as Jeannine DeLine ( accounting/finaincial manager of the casino in farmington) " Finger Lakes Gaming & RaceTrack" the co-owner of the Corning Bulldogs.

co-owner/ gm - James Schutz sais that they are going to be playing for the title in year one , he has a full year to get his team ready , I think they will make a title run , the whole city of Corning is behind them.


GO BULLDOGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[heavesrock]

I hope Corning has success, but Vermont will be looking up to no one. They are the class of the league and haven't even played a game. I just hope no one comes in and stinks up the NE because that is the most stable ABA region. As for Rochester, when Corning starts drawing 6,500 to games, talk about Rochester looking up to them.

[Corning Tax Payer]

If Corning had an arena that big they would draw that many and rochester averaged 3,200 per game in a 11,000 seat + arena they might have had 6 thousand plus like u said to a playoff game but there average was low considering the arena.
Vermont has a sports writer heading thier team and a very good one at that , but Corning has far more knowledge in finances then the vermont team , writing a good article does not = success , when Alex Wolf starts winning games then come talk to me .
Corning will be second to no one.


GO BULLDOGS!

[Corning Tax Payer]

Got a chance to research Vermont's or should I say the "great vermont's" roster , its made up of a lot of d-2 and d-3 average to horrible at best players mixed with 2 or 3 below average d-1 players , Rochester and Buffalo will run them out of the gym every night , dont come on this board talking about Vermont because I could get my buddies from the bar who drink beers for a living to beat those bums, dont compare that team to Corning again because the only thing Vermont has going for them is Alex Wolf and I dont see him suiting up again ( he played in an aba game last year for maryland :eek: )


GO BULLDOGS!

[rams80]

If Corning had an arena that big they would draw that many and rochester averaged 3,200 per game in a 11,000 seat + arena they might have had 6 thousand plus like u said to a playoff game but there average was low considering the arena.
Vermont has a sports writer heading thier team and a very good one at that , but Corning has far more knowledge in finances then the vermont team , writing a good article does not = success , when Alex Wolf starts winning games then come talk to me .
Corning will be second to no one.


GO BULLDOGS!

Rochester is one of the largest cities in upstate New York, Corning's metropolitan area could not average 6000 a night, given the size of the market.

As for the talent level, that sounds about par for the course for just about any ABA team.

BTW you're the player, aren't you.

[heavesrock]

Good Lord. Vermont has players who scored 40 points(not average, 1 game) in college at a d-1 school, a George Mason grad, European stars, a coach who scouts for the Spurs, and 2 grads of St. Joe's when they had that incredible season. One was a starter and the other was 6th man of the year. They also have a couple of local stars. And Rochester may averaged 3,200 fans a game. Thats good(very,very,very good) for the ABA. It probably will be higher this year. Buffalo will run no one out of the gym except Quebec City, Detroit, Toledo and maybe Montreal. Oh, and lets put up your Bulldogs team vs. Vermont tommorrow and see who wins, eh?

[heavesrock]

Got a chance to research Vermont's or should I say the "great vermont's" roster , its made up of a lot of d-2 and d-3 average to horrible at best players mixed with 2 or 3 below average d-1 players , Rochester and Buffalo will run them out of the gym every night , dont come on this board talking about Vermont because I could get my buddies from the bar who drink beers for a living to beat those bums, dont compare that team to Corning again because the only thing Vermont has going for them is Alex Wolf and I dont see him suiting up again ( he played in an aba game last year for maryland :eek: )


GO BULLDOGS!


Who are your buddies? I highly doubt they could be d-1 starters.

[Chuck the Writer]

There must be something in the water in Corning. Maybe it's leftover glass residue, or carbon monox fumes from Watkins Glen.

Let's get a few things straight. All Corning has done is announce that they have a team - that will play in the 07-08 season. Now while that does give the Corndogs a chance to get their team in place, that doesn't mean that they're going to get any better or worse talent that's currently out there in the first place. This is the ABA. There are going to be 70+ teams in 07-08 according to Unca Joe. That's 700 basketball players left over, after the NBA, CBA and D-League have taken the best in the game.

Right now all you can do CTP is talk smack about a team that won't even step foot on a court until 2007-08. Take a deep breath before you start claiming that the Corndogs are ready to take on the Lakers or even the Patroons or even the Tulsa 66ers.

Enthusiasm is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

[BreakersFan]

Rochester is one of the largest cities in upstate New York, Corning's metropolitan area could not average 6000 a night, given the size of the market.

As for the talent level, that sounds about par for the course for just about any ABA team.

BTW you're the player, aren't you.


That was my immediate thought too, Rams! Now all the crowing about the 21 point game and the 2000 ticket inquiries makes sense :-P

Ahh the innocence of youth.....

[Sam Hill]

co-owner/ gm - James Schutz sais that they are going to be playing for the title in year one , he has a full year to get his team ready , I think they will make a title run , the whole city of Corning is behind them.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Look, set your watch and come back one year from today with your smack, okay? Nobody cares right now.

[sportsfan27]

CTP -

Do you even read what you write. First you, quite accurately, point out that a writer, no matter how good, isn't going to make his team successful on the court. Then you rave about the accounting skills of one of the Corning owners, as if that is what is going to take you to the promissed land. You inaccurately dismiss the Vermont team as a bunch of D-3 players, when in fact they have players with some of the best credentials in this joke of a league. You laud the accomplishments of your juco all-star coach, as if once again this is the golden key. Ask Tim Hardaway (Florida) how his past accomplishments helped his team at the gate. On another post you dismiss management all together as a key for success. You're in for a rude awakening when your owners can't pay the bills with a 200 person, and thats probably a good guess, gate. I guess that's where your accountants ability to cook the books may come in handy.

[Fells]

Not only do the Heaves have some accomplished players, but one heck of a coach in Will Voigt. Will was a very successful coach overseas and has a solid reputation for his teaching and coaching skills.

[heavesrock]

FYI, Corning is no longer listed as an expansion team on ABAlive.com.

[ABA06er]

the ABA started up a brand new website just a few days ago.

50% of the expasnion teams for next season are not listed yet on the new one ( you failed to mention that ) as it is apparently still being worked on. If you go to ABA store it goes back to the older site and they are still listed on that one. As is Toronto and a host of other teams who have not been updated on the brand new site yet. Do some research before you make a fool of yourself.

[psbf]

ABA, just because you're educating someone does not make them dumb.

[ABA06er]

You are correct , I shouldnt have used the word "dumb" it is just unfortunate that the majority of the people on this site dont do research, It would not have taken much to see that the ABA site is brand new and only half the expansion teams are listed so far, I am just asking for research to be done and then come on here with facts or atleast have some sort of source , dont just make things up "research does not take all that long" then come on here with some better knowedge dont just post to be able to post.

So Heavesrock I am sorry you are not dumb, apology accepted ?

[rams80]

You are correct , I shouldnt have used the word "dumb" it is just unfortunate that the majority of the people on this site dont do research, It would not have taken much to see that the ABA site is brand new and only half the expansion teams are listed so far, I am just asking for research to be done and then come on here with facts or atleast have some sort of source , dont just make things up "research does not take all that long" then come on here with some better knowedge dont just post to be able to post.

So Heavesrock I am sorry you are not dumb, apology accepted ?

Given this league's record over the past couple of years, can you blame anyone for assuming the worst?

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

What I don't understand is that many websites upgrade and change daily. Why is it - with weeks of planning and setting up behind the scenes, that there is basic information (even what little info the league had) still missing.

There isn't a lot of html knowledge needed to post a list of cities, to post statistics (which the league bragged about as a huge upgrade), to check for spelling and grammar errors (assits?) and to do things the right way. But things are too often done the ABA way, which is, if it doesn't come out right - blame someone else.

[psbf]

I don't go by assumptions. You take too much for granted that way and I preferr to go by proof.

[heavesrock]

I know they have a new site and that a number of teams are missing. I'm not entirely sure that the Toronto team will ever play. What I was pointing out with the Corning team is that they were on the new site earlier and were taken off along with a few other previously announced teams and some teams that weren't announced(ie Tucson).

[BreakersFan]

What I don't understand is that many websites upgrade and change daily. Why is it - with weeks of planning and setting up behind the scenes, that there is basic information (even what little info the league had) still missing.

There isn't a lot of html knowledge needed to post a list of cities, to post statistics (which the league bragged about as a huge upgrade), to check for spelling and grammar errors (assits?) and to do things the right way. But things are too often done the ABA way, which is, if it doesn't come out right - blame someone else.

It is supposed to be assets, as in expansion fees, which is the only stat that the league office actually tracks.....

[BreakersFan]

Corning is now listed on the new site. After all his posts, where in the world has CTP gone? Maybe he is busy handling the 2000 ST requests!

[BasketballUSA]

By friday we shall see which direction the league is going in. Best case scenario there will be 16 solid teams. Have to wait till Friday to find out. Lots of word on the street, especially in California, that major changes are comming. In all reality...there will be no Corning New York or Waco Texas or Toledo , Ohio etc etc etc....... Same will be true for CBA and its house of cards...they will fall later than sooner.

[psbf]

For the Xplosion sake, I hope your wrong about the CBA.

[BasketballUSA]

Look up the two groups that own 6 of the 8 teams....do the research, and then you will have an idea of how long the CBA will last. Try to google "Apex Sportainment" or anything to do with Florida Pit bulls of ABA last year. Your answer lies here...grasshopper.

[psbf]

I agree with the fact the league has to get more individual owners. But you seem to be concentrating so hard on the league's future that you don't see it from the supporters of those teams and the effect it will have on us.
I'm glad to see the Xplosion back, no matter where they play. Whether you are right or wrong about the league, they are my main concern. But apparently what I say does not mean anything to you. Do you have any alternate plans for when/if this happens? I'm guessing not, as long as what you say is right.

[Sam Hill]

By friday we shall see which direction the league is going in. Best case scenario there will be 16 solid teams. Have to wait till Friday to find out. Lots of word on the street, especially in California, that major changes are comming. In all reality...there will be no Corning New York or Waco Texas or Toledo , Ohio etc etc etc....... Same will be true for CBA and its house of cards...they will fall later than sooner.

But.....but.....but...Corning had 2,000 requests for season tickets! How can this be? They're going to be stocked with DI All-Americans! ;)