Humpty Dumpty

[RUFFNECKER]

So are the proverbial walls of the IFL crumbling around the great Tommy B. and Chad D. I love this league and the teams in it, but it looks to me like the AFL2 has seen the writing on the wall and have decided to take the old saying if you can't beat them, buy them, to heart. Now I know markets like Odessa, Belton, Tyler, SanAngelo and such are probably AFL2 safe because of the size of their markets. But what will the AFL2 do to the talent in the IFL once it has 4 or 5 teams established in Texas. Will the AFL2 rules go with the new AFL changes as far as free substitution? If not, that could hurt the AFL2, all I know is I am interested in why the Hammerheads were kicked out of their arena, and wonder if they will now go back to their old home to play or will their no longer be a team in the IFL located in Corpus? How do the higher ups of the IFL plan on countering the blitz of the AFL2? Will they raise the player pay? Or will the IFL concede to the almighty AFL2 and bow out? Put the kids to bed and stay tuned sports fans, it's gonna get interesting!!!

[IRUNTDS]

As a matter of fact the Af2 coming into Texas is the best thing that could possibly happen to the IFL. It gives the IFL a chance to compete directly with the Af2. The Hammerheads will have a team in a new building being built in Corpus. Corpus will just have two teams in two different leagues. This is going to give Chad D. an opportunity to put his league up directly versus the Af2. If the IFL does things right they can squash the Af2 in Texas. It will be fun watching this head to head competition. Because the AFL is changing so many rules such as no more two way players it will give the IFL teams a chance to compete directly in recruiting with the Af2. AFL teams will then be just looking for the best players they can find and not so called ironman players. Like you said it it going to be interesting.

[preeths]

There are plenty of available quality players, particularly in Texas.

[Minor League Man]

As a matter of fact the Af2 coming into Texas is the best thing that could possibly happen to the IFL. It gives the IFL a chance to compete directly with the Af2. The Hammerheads will have a team in a new building being built in Corpus. Corpus will just have two teams in two different leagues. This is going to give Chad D. an opportunity to put his league up directly versus the Af2. If the IFL does things right they can squash the Af2 in Texas. It will be fun watching this head to head competition. Because the AFL is changing so many rules such as no more two way players it will give the IFL teams a chance to compete directly in recruiting with the Af2. AFL teams will then be just looking for the best players they can find and not so called ironman players. Like you said it it going to be interesting.
So maybe the Marshals can play at Cincinnati Gardens while the af2 team plays at US Bank Arena.

[IRUNTDS]

Playing in a smaller arena may not be a bad thing. As you well know the atmosphere is much better when the building is full. All dittman has to do is sell 3,000 seats to make a good profit. Even if the two teams split fans right down the middle dittman will make money with 3,000 people in a packed building. The af2 version will be in a 9,500 seat arena that looks empty with 3,000 people. The question will come down to which atmosphere the sponsors like best.

[phydeaux72]

Playing in a smaller arena may not be a bad thing. As you well know the atmosphere is much better when the building is full. All dittman has to do is sell 3,000 seats to make a good profit. Even if the two teams split fans right down the middle dittman will make money with 3,000 people in a packed building. The af2 version will be in a 9,500 seat arena that looks empty with 3,000 people. The question will come down to which atmosphere the sponsors like best.

The ABC holds 7500 for hockey/indoor football.

There is no guarantee that the af2 is going to be in Corpus anytime soon, only a rumor. The reason the ABC didn't renew the lease is because, based on said rumor, they are HOPING to have an af2 franchise in the arena. Also, Corpus will only be playing in the 3000 seat arena for the 2007 season, and quite possibly 2008. However, in 2008, they will be playing another new facility across town from the ABC that is expected to seat around 6500 for hockey/indoor football.

Rumor also has it that the Corpus Christ Rays (CHL) aren't happy with the ABC and may be following the Hammerheads out the door.

[rams80]

The ABC holds 7500 for hockey/indoor football.

There is no guarantee that the af2 is going to be in Corpus anytime soon, only a rumor. The reason the ABC didn't renew the lease is because, based on said rumor, they are HOPING to have an af2 franchise in the arena. Also, Corpus will only be playing in the 3000 seat arena for the 2007 season, and quite possibly 2008. However, in 2008, they will be playing another new facility across town from the ABC that is expected to seat around 6500 for hockey/indoor football.

Rumor also has it that the Corpus Christ Rays (CHL) aren't happy with the ABC and may be following the Hammerheads out the door.

Af2 eyes city as locale for team
Indoor football could return to arena by 2007

By Matt Young Caller-Times
September 20, 2006


The Corpus Christi Hammerheads won't be back in the American Bank Center, but it looks like some sort of indoor football will return.

Jerry Kurz - president of af2, a development league for the Arena Football League - toured the arena and city Tuesday and said he'd like to bring an expansion team to Corpus Christi in time for the 2007 season, which likely would begin in March.





The af2 is one of several indoor football leagues looking to fill the void created earlier in the month when the American Bank Center announced it would not renew the Hammerheads' lease.

"This is a great building - it's as good as any building in the af2," Kurz said. "Corpus Christi is such a great place that they have an opportunity to choose what they want. We know we're the best league, but it's got to be a two-way street. We want to be here, and we want the city to want us to be here."

Kurz says he plans to release the af2's 2007 schedule in mid-October and needs to know by the end of the month if he should pencil Corpus Christi into that schedule.

"(Af2) is excited, and they're certainly putting pressure on me," American Bank Center general manager Marc Solis said. "We like what we see, and I'm cautiously optimistic that we can make this work."

Af2's ties to the Arena Football League, whose national TV deal with NBC expired after last season, makes it the most stable option. However, other leagues - including the National Indoor Football League, which the Hammerheads played in two years ago - have shown interest in coming to Corpus Christi, also.

"(af2) is legitimate," Solis said. "They're a real league, and the stability is there. They're going on their eighth year now, and the AFL is going on its 22nd year. We like that stability."

Last season, the af2 had 24 teams that stretched from Spokane, Wash., to Albany, N.Y., and could expand to as many as 30 teams this season. The league is looking to add expansion teams in Corpus Christi, Laredo, Lubbock and Katy to go along with its current Texas teams in Amarillo and Hidalgo.

The af2 game is played under the same rules as the AFL, which differed slightly from the IFL. Unlike the IFL, the af2 has rebound nets behind both goalposts, keeping kickoffs in play and providing runbacks after missed field goals. The af2 also forces more players to play on both sides of the ball. Every offensive player must also play defensive except the quarterback and an offensive specialist, which is usually a receiver.

Doug MacGregor, president of the AFL's Austin Wranglers, said the af2 would bring the same excitement fans saw with AFL games broadcast on NBC.

"It's the same game, and the talent level is excellent," MacGregor said. "In Austin, if we put two af2 teams out on the field one game, the fans wouldn't be able to tell the difference."

MacGregor would help a local af2 team get off the ground, but the team would be locally owned.

Kurz said he's in talks with three different Corpus Christi groups that could purchase the expansion franchise.

"We insist on having local ownership, and we have that in every market," Kurz said. "The Austin group would be a part of it to make sure the structure of the franchise is in place and to make sure the team has enough resources to thrive, but it would be run locally."

Quick summary-the Emperor was in Corpus and pretty much said they're setting up shop in the "conveniently" (my quotes and word) newly vacated arena.

I'll just turn the Imperial March on now and leave.

[Geoff]

Having the Hammerheads stay in Corpus Christi while the af2 swoops into the area. You'll end up spliting attendance and while you may kill off the af2 franchise, you're probably going to die, also.

[rams80]

Having the Hammerheads stay in Corpus Christi while the af2 swoops into the area. You'll end up spliting attendance and while you may kill off the af2 franchise, you're probably going to die, also.

The Hammerheads just said they'll play in a smaller arena where they can hack the lease.
Besides any drop in attendance and the sudden voiding of your existing lease could be used as ammo in any case against the Empire.
As you can guess, I'm all for Dittman keeping the Hammerheads going.

[preeths]

SMG has put all their eggs in af2's basket. They better hope it succeeds or they should have to answer for how this was done.

[Tater]

If you are used to buying your groceries at a certain store where you know the workers well and they know you, are you likely to go to the new store down the street? Especially when you find out that the prices are more expensive?

Being first and "King of the Hill" matter a lot. The old saying "they need to know you, like you, trust you, and want to do business with you" applies here. Once you have gained their trust and respect, they aren't likely to jump to a competitor just because they show up.

I don't expect the AF2 team to do squat unless the Hammerheads don't play this year. I wouldn't even sign up, if I were the AF2. They are mistaken if they think they can just show up and everyone will come hand them their hard-earned money.

[phydeaux72]

From what I've been told, Dittman will be adding about $100,000 to his bottomline by playing in the smaller arena next season. Of course, he'll only be drawing half the attendance as well. Even if the af2 does come into Corpus, I expect the Hammerheads to sellout almost every game next season, considering they averaged over 6000 fans a game last season. Which in turn means that the af2 team probably won't fare well attendance-wise its first (and most likely its last) season in Corpus. Dittman isn't just going to tuck his tail and run. He may not me a corporate giant, but he does have the jack to give the af2 a run for their money. I think with the city of Corpus and the fanbase behind the Hammerheads, the cards are stacked in Dittman's favor and he'll be the one standing in the end.

The whole reason the af2 is even making a run for Corpus & Laredo in the first place is because they are trying to appease the RGV owners. I don't think either team will last more than one season in the af2. The Laredo market is so saturated with minor league sports at this point that I have doubts that any league can be successful in indoor/arena football. And Corpus, for the most part, is already behind the Hammerheads and it's my opinion that they're not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Malepig]

SMG has put all their eggs in af2's basket. They better hope it succeeds or they should have to answer for how this was done.

Paul has it pretty much figured out with SMG but that wasn't a secret. People need to realize something else. The af2 did not seek out Laredo and C.C. but potential owners came to them.
One more thing to realize is when a team moves from a bigger to a smaller community it does not look good to the general public. They look at this as the hammerheads are failing and moving to something smaller while the af2 team is in the bigger arena. Size does matter.

[preeths]

One more thing to realize is when a team moves from a bigger to a smaller community it does not look good to the general public. They look at this as the hammerheads are failing and moving to something smaller while the af2 team is in the bigger arena. Size does matter.

Possibly, but not necessarily. If I was Dittman, the moment I announced my move to the smaller arena, I'd also lay the blame at the feet of SMG or its CC rep and publicly challenge them to reveal why they didn't renew with the Hammerheads. I'd cite three years of indoor football played before big crowds and his investment in the team, league and community. If he wasn't given a fair shot at a new arena deal, I'd also sue. Publicly, he could turn this into a battle of the local business owner vs. a corporation. In a fight like that, sometimes smaller is better.

[rams80]

Paul has it pretty much figured out with SMG but that wasn't a secret. People need to realize something else. The af2 did not seek out Laredo and C.C. but potential owners came to them.
One more thing to realize is when a team moves from a bigger to a smaller community it does not look good to the general public. They look at this as the hammerheads are failing and moving to something smaller while the af2 team is in the bigger arena. Size does matter.

Except that the Empire didn't tell them, "sorry no can do, because somebody else is there (at least in regards to Corpus)."

Query...didn't Dittman approach the Empire way back when and get turned down because Corpus was "too small"? What has changed since then? (Besides another league now playing there.)

Same with Laredo-does anyone think this team will be sucessful after the disaster of the Law and considering the poor attendance of the Lobos last year? That org really has no business in the Empire if it can't survive for the long haul, although since it was in another league SURPRISE!! the Empire will let you in.

[phydeaux72]

Query...didn't Dittman approach the Empire way back when and get turned down because Corpus was "too small"? What has changed since then? (Besides another league now playing there.)

Good point. However, the ABC was still under construction at the time. The arena that the Hammerheads played in the first season (same place the Corpus Christi Rays played for years) was a little tiny run down barn.

And you're right, the af2 should have done the ethical thing and turned SMG's offer down, assuming that SMG is the one who made the offer. But we all know where the af2 stands on ethics. I don't think they really give a rat's ass about whether what they're doing is ethical, or legal for that matter. It's just that no one has done anything to challenge their tactics up until now. But like I said, Dittman isn't one to just tuck his tail and run. The Hammerheads didn't get where they are today because he sat back and did nothing.

And just because the media states that SMG approached the af2 and not the other way around doesn't mean that's the gospel truth. I take that with a grain of salt.

[preeths]

Same with Laredo-does anyone think this team will be sucessful after the disaster of the Law and considering the poor attendance of the Lobos last year?

I'm not sure how the Lobos organization can make this work. The Law was owned by the hugely successful hockey Bucks and couldn't make it. The Lobos averaged under 1,000 fans per game last season. Will new majority ownership be enough to make a difference?

[Freedom]

Once you have gained their trust and respect, they aren't likely to jump to a competitor just because they show up.

Why not? . . . that is what the arena did.

[phydeaux72]

Why not? . . . that is what the arena did.

Because it's an SMG arena, who is rumored to have some kind of ongoing working relationship with the af2.

[Malepig]

There is more than a rumor of a relationship. There is a relationship since SMG runs so many arenas in the US and Puerto Rico so the af2 would know them. Now does SMG tell an owner what kind of indoor team they bring in? I doubt it but I'm sure they can refer owners from previous experience what does work.

[phydeaux72]

There is more than a rumor of a relationship. There is a relationship since SMG runs so many arenas in the US and Puerto Rico so the af2 would know them. Now does SMG tell an owner what kind of indoor team they bring in? I doubt it but I'm sure they can refer owners from previous experience what does work.

Point well taken. But as far as I can tell, the Hammerheads haven't done anything up to this point to indicate that the IFL wasn't working. In fact, with the exception of the one season in the NIFL, it has worked very well. And even in that one season, aside from what was happening in the NIFL, the Hammerheads was still a solid franchise. So all indications point that the af2 approached SMG (or visa versa) with the intent of putting a team in Corpus. Therefore, the Hammerheads lease was not renewed. SMG still has not given a legitimate reason for not renewing the lease other than "we decided not to."

I agree with other posters. Unless the arena can give a legitimate reason for not renewing the Hammerheads lease, then Dittman has good cause to take legal action against SMG and the af2.

[IRUNTDS]

The bottom line in all of this is simple. The Af2 did not do full research on the area of Corpus. They thought they could come in and swoon the arena and all would be fine. They did not realize that the Hammerheads could go to another arena right there in the area. They thought the Hammerheads would roll over and die. I don't think they are up for this fight. Whoever takes over to operate the team in the Af2 will struggle financially even if there was no competition. They will definitely not make the dollar that they want with the high costs of the af2 along with a competitive team in the same city. And besides the Hammerheads were not in any financial trouble. It would have been easier to knock them off if they had been a subpar organization. But they are not!

[IRUNTDS]

By the way calling the Af2 the "Empire" is a little bit of a stretch don't you think. In a league where less than 20% of owners make a profit...I don't know.

[Reichert]

What is the population base of Corpus Christi? I'm thinking it's right around 500,000. That is close to the population base of the Katy/West Houston area. This is going to seem like the most insane question ever answered on this board, but if af2 takes the Copperheads out of the Katy Merrell Center (as nearly everyone with a clue is figuring will happen), what would the likelihood of the IFL putting a team right into the Merrell Center be?

af2 is likely headed for the Berry Center in NW Houston, about 15 miles from The Merrell. That's a longer distance than the two Corpus arenas are in a similar population density. I'm not saying anyone out there would actually try to pull what the Hammerheads might in Corpus, but it's my zany question of the week and I'd like to at least entertain myself a bit here :)

[phydeaux72]

The bottom line in all of this is simple. The Af2 did not do full research on the area of Corpus. They thought they could come in and swoon the arena and all would be fine. They did not realize that the Hammerheads could go to another arena right there in the area. They thought the Hammerheads would roll over and die. I don't think they are up for this fight. Whoever takes over to operate the team in the Af2 will struggle financially even if there was no competition. They will definitely not make the dollar that they want with the high costs of the af2 along with a competitive team in the same city. And besides the Hammerheads were not in any financial trouble. It would have been easier to knock them off if they had been a subpar organization. But they are not!

By the way calling the Af2 the "Empire" is a little bit of a stretch don't you think. In a league where less than 20% of owners make a profit...I don't know.

It was stated in the news article that the majority owners would be the ownership group of the Austin Wranglers AFL franchise. Whoever the Corpus person is who runs the franchise will be a minority partner and will probably be compensated fairly well for as long as they last, which probably won't be very long. As we've both stated, Dittman isn't one to just tuck his tail and run. The af2 will have a short-lived existence in Corpus, just like in Laredo.

As far as making a profit, I don't think the af2 model was ever intended for the owners to make a profit. For the most part, the individual franchises serve as entities for the betterment of the parent AFL. And most of the members of the ownership groups are corporate giants and money moguls who are just doing this for the fun of it or for a tax writeoff. I'd be willing to bet that the league is the one that makes the all the money in the end.

[IRUNTDS]

Not a bad idea at all. The IFL can compete with the Af2 in the right places in Texas. Most of the IFL franchises have a three year head start over anything new. Which means the league does not have a bad name in Texas. The Af2 is mistaking the IFL for the NIFL. The reputation of the IFL is not a bad one. And beside the owners in the IFL make money. I don't know for sure but I'd bet that the folks in Amarillo and Rio Grande don't see a profit. The only places that the af2 can take over are places that have struggling franchises or ridiculously stupid owners that they can sell their line to.

[phydeaux72]

What is the population base of Corpus Christi? I'm thinking it's right around 500,000. That is close to the population base of the Katy/West Houston area. This is going to seem like the most insane question ever answered on this board, but if af2 takes the Copperheads out of the Katy Merrell Center (as nearly everyone with a clue is figuring will happen), what would the likelihood of the IFL putting a team right into the Merrell Center be?

af2 is likely headed for the Berry Center in NW Houston, about 15 miles from The Merrell. That's a longer distance than the two Corpus arenas are in a similar population density. I'm not saying anyone out there would actually try to pull what the Hammerheads might in Corpus, but it's my zany question of the week and I'd like to at least entertain myself a bit here :)

I've actually been mulling that over in my head the past couple of weeks myself. The only negative I see with it is the absense of beer sales. It didn't seem to affect the Copperheads too much last season. But, 15 miles just isn't that much further to drive. And what's football without beer?

[phydeaux72]

I don't know for sure but I'd bet that the folks in Amarillo and Rio Grande don't see a profit.

Being a business associate of the RGV owners, I can tell you that they are a break-even franchise. In Amarillo, I can't see them turning a profit with the weak attendance. But in both cases, those owners don't necessarily need to make a profit at this.

[Reichert]

I've actually been mulling that over in my head the past couple of weeks myself. The only negative I see with it is the absense of beer sales. It didn't seem to affect the Copperheads too much last season. But, 15 miles just isn't that much further to drive. And what's football without beer?

Good points indeed. I guess the only other thing to consider is that Katy definitely is a very strong core community. The Berry Center is in the Cy-Fair ISD and is now the core arena for the Cy-Fair area. Katyites probably won't have a problem driving 15 miles to see the Copperheads in the new digs, but if they are given an option closer to home that specifically is directed at Greater Katy alot of the locals might opt for that. And an IFL Katy team might only need to draw 3,000 a game to be a viable franchise. The Copperheads will likely either need truckloads of corporate dollars or about 6,000 fans a game to make it viable.

Bottom line: If Katy fans have the Copperheads as their lone option, they'll drive 15-20 miles to support it. But if another team gets into the Merrell muc closer to home, I think all bets are off.

[phydeaux72]

Good points indeed. I guess the only other thing to consider is that Katy definitely is a very strong core community. The Berry Center is in the Cy-Fair ISD and is now the core arena for the Cy-Fair area. Katyites probably won't have a problem driving 15 miles to see the Copperheads in the new digs, but if they are given an option closer to home that specifically is directed at Greater Katy alot of the locals might opt for that. And an IFL Katy team might only need to draw 3,000 a game to be a viable franchise. The Copperheads will likely either need truckloads of corporate dollars or about 6,000 fans a game to make it viable.

Bottom line: If Katy fans have the Copperheads as their lone option, they'll drive 15-20 miles to support it. But if another team gets into the Merrell muc closer to home, I think all bets are off.

It would be an uphill battle for the IFL. But I agree with you, it's a definate possibility. Depending on the cost of rent at the Merrill Center, you could probably get by with an attendance of between 3,000 & 4,000 and even make a pretty good profit in the IFL. Furthermore, if you actually managed to squash the af2 out of Katy (hypothetically, of course), that would open up the Barry Center for future consideration.

[rams80]

By the way calling the Af2 the "Empire" is a little bit of a stretch don't you think. In a league where less than 20% of owners make a profit...I don't know.

This is a reference to the Evil Empire of Star Wars fame.

Of course they ultimately didn't do to well either. (hee hee).

[Reichert]

It would be an uphill battle for the IFL. But I agree with you, it's a definate possibility. Depending on the cost of rent at the Merrill Center, you could probably get by with an attendance of between 3,000 & 4,000 and even make a pretty good profit in the IFL. Furthermore, if you actually managed to squash the af2 out of Katy (hypothetically, of course), that would open up the Barry Center for future consideration.

The af2 is most likely headed out of the Merrell Center on their own. "The Leonard" can barely seat 5,000 for indoor football so in the af2 that means they would likely need to be around 80-90% sold out for each game or have truckloads of corporate sponsors to fill the gap. The NIFL Copperheads averaged around 3,000 a game last season and apparently did just fine, so I don't see that as a problem in the IFL, either.

[IRUNTDS]

Being a business associate of the RGV owners, I can tell you that they are a break-even franchise. In Amarillo, I can't see them turning a profit with the weak attendance. But in both cases, those owners don't necessarily need to make a profit at this.

I understand how an owner may not need to make a profit but I don't understand why an owner would not want to make a profit. The Olsen family did not need to make a profit in Macon but after six years of either breaking even or losing money it does not make long term sense. My point is that in the state of Texas the IFL is a smarter investment for any ownership group when comparing business models with the Af2.

[Malepig]

The bottom line in all of this is simple. The Af2 did not do full research on the area of Corpus. They thought they could come in and swoon the arena and all would be fine. They did not realize that the Hammerheads could go to another arena right there in the area. They thought the Hammerheads would roll over and die. I don't think they are up for this fight. Whoever takes over to operate the team in the Af2 will struggle financially even if there was no competition.

Let me dispell a couple of things in this post. The af2 could care less about the IFL. They could care less about the hammerheads. They are looked as nothing more than an "ankle-biting league" and the hammerheads as another "ankle-biting team". The af2 doesn't fight and won't fight the hammerheads. Fighting is left for people like JT in Youngstown. Starting in October they will present arena football to the citizens of the Corpus Christie area and let them choose if they want to attend. There is also no either/or. Some fans will go to both leagues as well. This is nothing more than you have a McDonalds on one corner and then an Outback Streakhouse comes to town and is on another corner.

[rams80]

Be funny as "bleep" if that "ankle biting league" went head-to-head with the Empire on game nights and won.

That and the concept of them sueing you guys and winning fills me with joy.

Kill the rhetoric pig, this time the Empire's overstepped its bounds.

[Malepig]

Can you be more hateful?

[rams80]

Can you be more hateful?

Depends, you a New England Patriots fan?

[Reichert]

Depends, you a New England Patriots fan?

I still wonder what the odds of an af2/IFL confrontation are for the Katy/West Houston market.

[phydeaux72]

I still wonder what the odds of an af2/IFL confrontation are for the Katy/West Houston market.

IF the IFL were to go through with suing the af2 over the Corpus situation and actually won, I think them going head to head with the af2 in Katy would be kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. At least a court may look at it that way. On the other hand, it wouldn't be like the IFL would be going into the Barry Center and pulling the rug out from under the af2, like the af2 is attempting to do to the IFL in Corpus.

But if the Hammerheads do what I think they'll do and prevail without having to go to the courts, I would jump on the Katy opportunity with both feet.

[IRUNTDS]

Let me dispell a couple of things in this post. The af2 could care less about the IFL. They could care less about the hammerheads. They are looked as nothing more than an "ankle-biting league" and the hammerheads as another "ankle-biting team". The af2 doesn't fight and won't fight the hammerheads. Fighting is left for people like JT in Youngstown. Starting in October they will present arena football to the citizens of the Corpus Christie area and let them choose if they want to attend. There is also no either/or. Some fans will go to both leagues as well. This is nothing more than you have a McDonalds on one corner and then an Outback Streakhouse comes to town and is on another corner.

Pig you are smarter than that. I have read your posts on other boards for a long time now and you seem to have good knowledge. But you are wrong here. The af2 very much cares about the IFL you better believe it. Since Texas is such a bridge to what the af2 needs. With teams all over the country spread out with no thought of the cost of travel the af2 needs Texas to help keep some of its teams costs down. Don't think that Bossier doesn't need teams in Texas to survive. Don't think Amarillo and Rio Grande aren't complaining about travel. Teams on the west coast as well. They(af2) may not care in a sense of competition but they have to care based on what they need. There is a race for control in Texas don't close your eyes on that one. And by the way this is more like a McDonald's on one corner and Wendy's on another. Outback Steakhouse would have to be the NFL. Besides there is no such thing as ankle biting in America...it is called market competition. It exists believe it or not. There are not too many industries in our country where we only have one of something.

[Malepig]

I can say with 100% satisfaction the af2 does not care about the IFL, UIF, NIFL, APFL, WIFL, PIFL and their operations. The goal for the af2 in all that in Texas there are potential owners who want to bring arena football to thier cities. They are going to go where there is a need and are not concerned with the IFL. This is a major shift from 2 years ago where they would have.
As far as teams complaining about travel expenses, name one team in any league that doesn''t. Just remember there are more teams(1 or 2 more) than Texas, Laredo, and CC coming into the af2 from Texas so next week should be interesting. And I will stick with the ankle-biting leagues. If there is a war in Texas then it will be the IFL waging as the af2 has other priorities.
On a more important side note: I just saw Jackass2 and it is much, MUCH better than the original. Just don't a date to this one as it is gross.

[rams80]

I can say with 100% satisfaction the af2 does not care about the IFL, UIF, NIFL, APFL, WIFL, PIFL and their operations. The goal for the af2 in all that in Texas there are potential owners who want to bring arena football to thier cities. They are going to go where there is a need and are not concerned with the IFL. This is a major shift from 2 years ago where they would have.

Bull-pure and simple. If this were truly the case, then the Empire would not be fracking around with leases and just be happy that the markets have football on a level they can afford.

As far as teams complaining about travel expenses, name one team in any league that doesn''t. Just remember there are more teams(1 or 2 more) than Texas, Laredo, and CC coming into the af2 from Texas so next week should be interesting. And I will stick with the ankle-biting leagues. If there is a war in Texas then it will be the IFL waging as the af2 has other priorities.
On a more important side note: I just saw Jackass2 and it is much, MUCH better than the original. Just don't a date to this one as it is gross.

Yeah, like trying to keep a sizeable chunk of the fanbase from abandoning ship after free substitution.

[exit322]

I don't think the loss of fans due to free substitution will even be noticeable, to tell you the truth. I don't think it changes much of anything.

You'll probably lose a couple diehards (though most all of them will come right back the second they realize the game is just the same only crisper), but not much beyond that.