The Stability of the ABA [Archive] - OurSports Central Independent and Minor League Sports Forums

Fells

07-30-2006, 01:27 PM

All,

I am a freelance writer in Vermont, and the Sports Director for a couple of ESPN Radio stations up in this neck of the woods. I have been following the Vermont Frost Heaves since their inception, and have been very impressed with owner Alex Wolff and his marketing plan, along with his tryout camps and staff. The one thing that is striking me a bit odd is the league itself.

I am a little leery of the league as a whole, and its philosophy of marketing. The league itself has undergone some serious changes, turnover, and seems to be as stable as the San Andreas Fault during an earthquake. In an e-mail exchange with Joe Newman, I asked just how stable the league can be with all of the changes, and the fact none of the teams completed their schedule last year. He said that the 60 teams they have now is not too many, and they plan on expanding to 70, and as high as 100. My question is, how can the league support 100 when it seemingly can't support ten. Newman is very responsive to questions from the media, he is dodgy on some questions though which makes me leery. He said there "is a plan" to ensure the teams play all 36 games, but did not elaborate on that plan.

The Frost Heaves will be run very well. Alex Wolff is a basketball savant, and he has hired coaches with a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge of the game. Alex knows his stuff and knows how to market a team. The interesting thing will be the fact the games will be played in older arenas whose courts are only 86 feet long. I think the area will respond to the team, but the problem is the league. The league's marketing plan is a joke, there are no stats, and the league is just too big.

By the way, a Frost Heave is a Vermont thing that makes sense up here. A Frost Heave is basically a big bump in the road caused by water going underneath the roadway and then freezing. We have these suckers all over the place and they are annoying as hell. Alex made a great joke at a major annoyance.

Cheers,

Chris

FortWayneBballfan

07-30-2006, 08:48 PM

There are problems with every league out there. The CBA requires way to much spending in the travel budget, teams can not handle that very long. The ABA has its problems and you have pointed them out. But the bottom line is not the league, it is franchise ownership. If you have a good owner who has a solid business sense and knows what he is doing, no matter how poor the league is, the team will have success. Its all about marketing. The league could be the worst league in the histor of basketball and if the owners have a clue, they will succeed.

Fans of certain league will alway rip leagues that they do have teams involved in.

Your team in Vermont will do well because of great ownership. Good luck. I would like to see more regional leagues out there. A league in a particular area of the country that would have teams from maybe a 4 or 5 state region. That would keep travel down and costs down which would in turn allow owners to have more success from the beginning.

Bobby3

07-30-2006, 11:55 PM

I'd like to see 6 leagues, for 6 regions of the country.

At the end of the season the champions play in a round robin group, top two then play a final at the arena of the top team.

But that's a pipe dream.

nksports

07-31-2006, 03:29 AM

The ABA is a pyramid scheme. No due dilligence is done by the league at all. No letters of credit are required. No performance bonds. It is a complete and total scam.
The way it works is Newman convinces some schmuck with stars in his eyes, a big ego, and not much business acumen to sink whatever money he has into franchise fees.
Said owner then maxes out his credit cards and whatever other savings he has, puts out a few press releases and hires a coach and some staff. He gets a few bucks early from tryout fees (usually $50 to $100 a player) and some early ticket sales.
Then the season comes, the doors to the gym fly open and not enough people come through the door to pay the bills. Then the team folds. The players, coaches, staff and fans are all burned.
Newman makes out OK because the next doofus falls for it, giving him another franchise fee.
There was a pretty good LA Times article about it (there's a link to it around here somewhere).
Minor league basketball has been a risky investment for decades (its never really found a niche and in most markets can't compete with the college game), but the ABA has made an artform of finding suckers.
The idea of a national minor league is a good one, but in the ABA, it is being executed the wrong way by the wrong people.

Pounder

07-31-2006, 02:50 PM

I remain convinced that the ABA is a scheme laundering drug money, or something similar. Many of us here think it's criminal, although I tend to think very few of this board's participants were actually dim enough to get season tickets. (I live in Boise, so I was never confronted with such a decision) There's been more than a few people here burned.

We'd really prefer that Alex Wolff turn his journalistic skills ON Joe Newman rather than send money to him.

FortWayneBballfan

07-31-2006, 07:23 PM

Again, whether the league is run properly or not...it is an owner that decides whether a franchise would be successful or not. The league could be horrible, but if the person or persons that own the team have a good business sense...that is all that matters.

The ABA requires a franchise fee, most leagues required a franchise fee and monthly or season dues that cut out of a persons spending. Other leagues are expensive to belong to and require alot of costly travel. The ABA is the perfect situation for an owner with a solid business sense. One that knows what he is doing and how to market his team. The problem with the ABA is, too many owners with a lack of business sense. There are some good owners in the ABA and some that are bad, it is the bad ones that make the league look worse.

The guy who owns the ABA just puts out a league for people to own a team in, he tells his owners, the fee is this and this is what we do, the rest is up to you. It does not get any easier than that.

The other leagues may be run better, but the costs really keep most business owners away. There are cities that would support an ABA team big time and others that would not. The ones that would not are the towns that owners should NOT be putting a team.

Bottom line is, if the owner has a clue, it will be successful, it not...well, he will be in bad shape quickly.

To the person who said the ABA is a pyramid scheme really has no clue what they are speaking of. Know what a pyramid scheme is before you say a league is such. I am not saying the ABA is the greatest, but come on....if you think a team is folding because of the league...look at your teams owners pocket...thats where the problem really lies.

preeths

07-31-2006, 07:50 PM

Bottom line is, if the owner has a clue, it will be successful, it not...well, he will be in bad shape quickly.

To the person who said the ABA is a pyramid scheme really has no clue what they are speaking of. Know what a pyramid scheme is before you say a league is such. I am not saying the ABA is the greatest, but come on....if you think a team is folding because of the league...look at your teams owners pocket...thats where the problem really lies.

I believe that's an over-simplification. What about the owner who does everything right, only to find that every other team in his division has folded within a couple weeks? We've seen it before. All the preparation and good business plans in the world won't do you any good if your travel costs multiply overnight and no one will come to your building.

I don't understand how some continue to believe leagues that consist of fragile ownership ultimately should blame the teams themselves for the condition. It is a league's responsibility to weed out potential problem owners before they buy teams. It is the league's obligation to protect fellow team owners. You can't just take every check from guys with enough credit to meet the expansion fee and then blame them when things go wrong. Of course, they will run into trouble! Leagues know that going in, but they keep on taking the checks from these naive Mark Cuban wannabes. You'll never get rid of all the undercapitalized people who want to own a sports team. You can get rid of the leagues that feed off their dreams and throw them to the wolves.

FortWayneBballfan

07-31-2006, 08:43 PM

I understand your points and they are very valid. But more teams fail in minor league sports due to lack of business sense due to the owners than it is the league.

The way that I see it, the ABA is strictly just a place that someone can place a team in a league and play. As I read, teams fold. The problem, lack of weeding out poor ownership. It happens in all leagues though, well most at least. The ABA has a problem of not picking poor owners, but poor markets for those teams to play in. There could be a great owner, but in a crappy market and he will fail. There could be a poor owner in a great market and succeed.

I have studied many leagues and they all have there positives and they all have their negatives. Over-expansion seems to be the number one problem in minor league sports.

I would love to see a mid west basketball league. A basketball league similiar to the GLIFL for indoor football. Put teams in Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, maybe Kentucky and start off with 10 teams. Low franchise fees, basic monthly league dues and low travel costs. I can really see a league like this happening soon. It will be the only way that teams could have some success, not only short term..but long term.

preeths

07-31-2006, 08:54 PM

I understand your points and they are very valid. But more teams fail in minor league sports due to lack of business sense due to the owners than it is the league.
Maybe in total, but we are discussing a specific league here. Why do ABA teams fail at such an alarming rate? The ABA played less than half its scheduled games last year. The CBA and D-League did not miss a game, while the WBA, USBL and IBL played the vast majority of theirs. What was the difference? Ownership, yes, but what are the requirements for accepting an owner and the ramifications when the bar is set too low?

The way that I see it, the ABA is strictly just a place that someone can place a team in a league and play. As I read, teams fold. The problem, lack of weeding out poor ownership. It happens in all leagues though, well most at least. The ABA has a problem of not picking poor owners, but poor markets for those teams to play in. There could be a great owner, but in a crappy market and he will fail. There could be a poor owner in a great market and succeed.
Yes, it happens in all leagues, but in some a LOT more than others. When less than 10 percent of the teams you begin the season with play their full schedule of games, you have a league-wide problem. Contrary to the assertion, the ABA does choose poor owners. Historically, there is no other way to interpret it. As can be expected, some of those owners choose poor markets. They don't have a clue or enough capital, which is why they shouldn't be given a team in the first place.

I have studied many leagues and they all have there positives and they all have their negatives. Over-expansion seems to be the number one problem in minor league sports.
Here we can agree as you've brought up a league problem. The leagues over-expand, and because of a lack of qualified owners, they let the unqualified in. Their failure should come as no surprise. All leagues have their positives and negatives, but that doesn't mean they're all equal. Some are a lot worse than others - for the fans, their employees, the players, the media and the owners.

TEN

07-31-2006, 08:54 PM

As I read FortWayne BballFans posts I was laughing inside that anybody could have that line of thinking....

Then I got to thinking that he is exactly right....

the bottom line is....

Any owner that has a clue would run screaming in the opposite direction of the ABA.

patmc16

07-31-2006, 09:07 PM

Again, whether the league is run properly or not...it is an owner that decides whether a franchise would be successful or not. The league could be horrible, but if the person or persons that own the team have a good business sense...that is all that matters.

Bottom line is, if the owner has a clue, it will be successful, it not...well, he will be in bad shape quickly.

Paul beat me to the punch and I couldn't agree more with him more. The above quote would be 100% true if the owner was running a fast food franchise or any other stand alone business. Being the best run sports franchise on Earth doesn't mean squat if the owner of the team you are supposed to be facing is a piece of crap who decides not to send his team to your gym. Having a good business sense is NOT all that matters. Not by a long shot. How many times are fans going to sit though an intersquad game or a game against anyone that could be found at the last minute when the other team folds or just doesn't show or, worse yet leave without seeing a game at all, just because their team has a good owner who markets the team and can financially support their team? Not too many times, I'm sure. These are scenarios that exist in the ABA every season. The best that a good owner in the ABA could hope for is to catch on with another league after doing their time in the purgatory that is the ABA. Fortunately, for the good owners, that is also a scenario that is happening more and more each season.

patmc16

07-31-2006, 09:31 PM

The ABA has a problem of not picking poor owners, but poor markets for those teams to play in. There could be a great owner, but in a crappy market and he will fail. There could be a poor owner in a great market and succeed.

Again, I have to disagree. I live in Metro Detroit. With the recent sucess of the Pistons, the interest in basketball in the area has been at a high at least equal to the "Bad Boys" era. A ticket to a game is nearly impossible to come by. I honestly can't remember the last time the Palace wasn't sold out. I realize I am comparing the NBA to minor basketball and that is not always fair but, speaking in general terms, this would have to be considered a good market.

Then we have our entry into the ABA, the Detroit Wheels. As far as poor ownership goes, it doesn't get much poorer than the Wheels'. Mind you that Uncle Joe made the following quote when the most recent ownership replaced the previous one, who quickly faded away:

Newman stated, "We're fortunate to have two very strong individuals at the helm there and are confident that they'll put together a first-class operation and team. Detroit is an important part of the league and we are pleased that we can move forward there."

The team will be co-owned by Antoine Joubert, a Detroit businessman and 1987 All-American basketball player at the University of Michigan and Chris Dryer, a Detroit-based real estate developer and attorney.

Now, watch this little diddy about the "strong individuals" that run the Wheels. This what you get when you have a crappy owner in a good market. BTW, this is the only media coverage that the Wheels have ever received in the area.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYewQxdGol4&search=detroit%20wheels%20aba

FortWayneBballfan

07-31-2006, 11:14 PM

First of all, Detroit is not a marketable city for minor league sports. Therefore in this instance, it is not a good market...for minor league sports that is. It is a major league sports town..no room for a minor league team. A good market would be somewhere like a Quad City, Battle Creek, Fort Wayne or Lexington. These are minor league market towns that could work much better than having a team in Detroit on this level.

Yes there are other leagues but, the CBA travel costs are extremely way to high for most minor league teams. The IBL plays a spring schedule that competes with outdoor activities including baseball. I think everyone knows that summer is for indoor football. But basketball needs to be done by March if it is a minor league team. The IBL runs the best ship as far as minor league basketball, but its success would be 10 fold if it ran a Nov to Mar schedule instead. Most people do not want to goto a basketball game in July. To find another league with low costs in nearly impossible.

Listen, I am not sitting here trying to say the ABA is great..I amjust merely stating that franchise ownership has a larger play in the success of a team than the league that they play in. The league can help it succeed more or hurt it a bit, but the success of a team has to do with the owner and the market that it calls home.

I said it in another forum, but what minor league basketball needs right now is a league strictly in the midwest, or strictly in the south or west...etc. A league with low travel costs, low franchise fees and low monthly dues. This would allow the league to put together a successful business plan, help the owners to succeed and allow each owner to put their money in marketing or on the court instead of in a league owners pocket and get nothing out of it. One that can work from a home office and do everything in its power to help its teams succeeds. Start off with 8 to 10 teams and no more and do not expand by more than 2 to 4 teams at a time. It would take someone with the money to get it going also and have a great marketing and business sense. I think it could work in each area of the country. I would love to see a league like this formed in the midwest. Teams from only Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan.

preeths

08-01-2006, 12:02 AM

The league can hurt the teams a lot. I think you are severely underestimating the effect it can have, not only in choice of team ownership, but in providing opponents, schedule integrity and consistent, fair decisions.

FortWayneBballfan

08-01-2006, 09:19 AM

First of all, I said they make great minor league towns, I did not say the ABA would be a perfect fit there.

Apparently you know very little about minor league sports. Some leagues charge high dues, this cuts into your own marketing and budget. The leagues that have the most success(most of the time) are leagues that do not required an owner to dump a ton of cash into the league to just be able to play.

The success of your team has to do with MARKETING. Have you never taken a business class or owned a business before? One can succeed with excellent marketing. Example...Fort Wayne during the CBA Thomas years. Horrible league, the CBA was a joke, teams were hosed..but Fort Wayne continued to succeed due to solid marketing in Fort Wayne. The folks running the Fury in FW for Thomas had a clue, unlike the league owner then. Fans still filled the seats at 5 to 6k a game and these were not filled with free-b tickets. Why did they succeed, they marketed the heck out of the team and did it very well.

Although I agree with your the "league should be ran by the owners" post. Someone still has to over see everything. Most owners struggle to even get their own team going, let alone be able to get a league going successful. Have you ever owned a team? If so, you would know that you have very little time to do anything else besides operate your team. To have to get involved with starting up a league and droppingmore of your cash is too difficult for most owners.

And I realize this is about the ABA, but I did not realize someone was not allowed to throw their 2 cents into it with an idea that they came up with that would be a perfect fit for minor league basketball.

I understand what you are staying, but after having experience in minor league sports, it is safe to say that you do not know the entire picture of minor league sports. From ownership to operation. If you are ever in that position, you would understand that it takes alot more than just a league to make you successful. One can take a great staff in a mediocre league and still have success. Is the ABA stable, not even close. Too many teams, growing way to quickly and it appears that some of the owners are inexperienced. But are there really any leagues that are solid? The CBA is not exactly the perfect league by any means. The IBL is by far the best run league from what I have read.

Yes, you need a stable league to be super successful, but a league that is surviving can have teams succeed with good ownership and a great backup plan when those teams "disappear" shortly after the beginning of the season.

I could see some successful businessmen getting a midwest league going. It would be a matter of finding someone that wanted to take the time to get it going. One with a great business plan. Why this has not been done yet is beyond me.

panchess

08-01-2006, 10:00 AM

..obviously that is important, but the fact of the matter is that reasonable franchise fees and game fees do not detract from a marketing effort. The Joe Newman line that "we let teams use their money for marketing" is a scam to encourage undercapitalized businesses to open. Particularly in a larger market, you probably need $1.5 to $2 million in investment to open and operate through the first two seasons, beyond whatever tickets you sell.

Having a league where the road teams show up and the schedule is played is critical to any marketing success. I agree with the basic point that only a fool would buy a season ticket for an ABA franchise. Without season ticket sales, you don't have upfront cash to do marketing and development during the off-season without a line of credit.

The most successful franchise in the ABA is the Rochester RazorSharks. I know on several occassions last season, they paid to have the visitors come in for their games so they would be played. That is the only way they got a full home schedule last season, and if they stay in the ABA, they will likely be doing the same thing this season.

Owners buying franchises on their credit cards aren't likely to have lines of credit to start the season, whether in the ABA, the USBL or any other league. The CBA requires the posting of a $100,000 line of credit for that very reason.

The Pennsylvania ValleyDawgs in the USBL are a great example of the opposite formula. They clearly opened without any cash in the bank, hired the 76ers dance team for the first game, which they clearly counted on a sellout to get some cash, and folded after the paid crowd was 157 people. The financial failure dragged the whole league down. ABA teams operate the same way.

Minor league franchises in stable leagues have considerable value. Even independent and short-season A baseball franchises command a million dollars on sale. Why? Because you are getting something of value where you know your opponents and what you can market and sell.

Without that, a sports franchise is worthless.

Pounder

08-01-2006, 10:57 AM

Apparently you know very little about minor league sports. Some leagues charge high dues, this cuts into your own marketing and budget. The leagues that have the most success(most of the time) are leagues that do not required an owner to dump a ton of cash into the league to just be able to play.

BULL. See USL vs NPSL. See af2 vs other indoor football leagues. At a "lower" level, the higher fees weed out "never-was" owners. That may not fly for, say, the AHL. It works at the level the ABA resides IMO.

The success of your team has to do with MARKETING. Have you never taken a business class or owned a business before? One can succeed with excellent marketing. Example...Fort Wayne during the CBA Thomas years. Horrible league, the CBA was a joke, teams were hosed..but Fort Wayne continued to succeed due to solid marketing in Fort Wayne. The folks running the Fury in FW for Thomas had a clue, unlike the league owner then. Fans still filled the seats at 5 to 6k a game and these were not filled with free-b tickets. Why did they succeed, they marketed the heck out of the team and did it very well.

Major league teams BARELY MARKET their teams. They don't need to. The media generally gives them the pub they need. Funny thing is that there IS a marketing principle to this, and the good marketers know it. "The best marketing is a good product."

In general, I would agree that good ownership can overcome a bad situation (i.e. Rochester). Problem is that the schedule is the essential delivery point of the product, and in the case of the ABA, the ownership, markets, and all that are a function of Joe Newman taking advantage of people who have little more than the money to pay him for the initial franchise. In the case of the ABA, it's a money grab, not a marketing plan, and not by a longshot. This is a case where the ownership may as well be designed to fail, and it's the leadership that puts it there.

Fells

08-01-2006, 11:13 AM

All,

The research for this article has been quite interesting to say the least. Joe Newman has responded very quickly to all of my questions, but refutes all of the points made in Becker's article. The article is still in the research stages, but there are cans of worms here that has delayed the writing for about another week or so. This is really getting interesting......

Fells

FortWayneBballfan

08-01-2006, 11:19 AM

Sorry, but I was involved in a league that required higher dues and it did not weed bad ownership either. The answer to solving that is to do background checks and business experience of interested owners. It has nothing to do with the cost of a franchise. You get bad owners whether the franchise fee is 100k or 5k.

You can have low dues and fees and still find good solid ownership as long as you do not have an open door policy to every tom, dick or harry that wants a sports team.

As far as major league teams marketing, yes they get quite a bit from local media..but have you ever seen a major league teams budget? The marketing budget is still huge and done well, but the local media is just a bonus for their marketing team.

As far as basketball goes, there is not one good solid league out there that has had 100% success. It would be incredibly hard to reach that goal. There are leagues that are better than others. Until the perfect league is put together by a businessman with a nice deep pocket,it wont happen. I would not open up my pocket book for such thing, my wife would have me for lunch if I funded a league. The thing that hurts the ABA is too many teams with bad ownership. The problem with the CBA is travel costs. Other leagues that are put together well suffer because they play a spring to summer schedule.

One could go round and round on minor league sports.

panchess

08-01-2006, 11:22 AM

They do a lot of marketing, though it is a bit different because they get paid to have their games broadcast on TV and radio, which is marketing the product as well. Even so, a considerable amount is spent on group sales, commercials and promotional activities at the games. The teams that have their own networks sell the commercials as well.

Many franchises (and the D-League is doing this a bit) set up their farm teams deliberately to be a couple hours away to be close to the parent, and promote the parent club to people who might attend occassionally, but are an important part of the TV audience.

Minor league teams struggle, but often get radio broadcasts and mentions on TV sports broadcasts in their markets. A fair question is how many ABA teams have radio broadcasts. Rochester is the only one who comes to mind, though I don't really know.

Probably half the teams in the ABA, if not more, are "wing and a prayer" outfits without a business plan or much start-up capital. Therefore everything is done with as little cash as possible (i.e. renting a high school gym for $400 a game without a long-term contract because that is all the money they have), and the results show.

Comparing such an outfit to the Pistons is like night and day. For a successful minor league franchise in a big city, check out the AHL's Toronto Marlies or Philadelphia Phantoms.

preeths

08-01-2006, 11:57 AM

High franchise fees alone will not kick out bad owners, but they're a good start. They help give the league the resources to conduct deep background and financial checks. Unfortunately, low fees hamstring a league office into skimping on background checks so more bad owners get in, even if the league cares enough to keep them out. Fact is, some leagues don't care. As long as your check clears, you are in. That's the real problem we're addressing here.

Fells

08-01-2006, 04:03 PM

preeths

08-01-2006, 07:41 PM

As an FYI, I am in contact with a few of the current owners to get their feelings on the LA Times article, and on the state of the ABA as a whole. From a couple of the responses I have received, there are many positive things to say about the league. One very good point was that the NBA, and other professional leagues have seen their share of ups and downs with folded teams and the like. One thing that even I have to remember is this is a league that is still in its relative infancy and there will be mistakes made on all sides.

It may be in its infancy, but are things getting better? Was last season any better than the one before, and is there any reason to expect this one to be better than last? If you play less than half your scheduled games, are you providing your product to your customers?

Yes, every league has its ups and downs, but some are more equipped and willing to deal with their shortcomings than others. Of those who had positive things to say about the league, are they new owners or returning ones? What did they have to say?

ABARedWhiteBlue

08-01-2006, 08:44 PM

FortWayne-
I did work for an ABA franchise, and can tell you that my owner was one of the hardest working people you will find. However, it is impossible to market your team when there is no guarantee that the opponent will actually show up to play, or that the league will stand by their word to ensure games are played and guarantees are kept.

Four different games we were forced to scramble for an opponent as teams decided not to spend the money and travel to our arena. Our building was first-class, the support was strong (especially among local youth teams), and the team was successful on the court - we had 6 players sign contracts overseas, as well as our macot getting offers for outstanding jobs. But, as we tried to bring in a 'money' guy for ownership, suitors were turned away by the lack of stability and progress.

Prior to last season, the CEO proclaimed that methods were put in place to ensure the mistakes of the past would not be repeated, and that games would be played and teams would not fail. Then, the league lost its first team IN THE FIRST WEEK OF THE SEASON.

You make two important statements:
You can have low dues and fees and still find good solid ownership as long as you do not have an open door policy to every tom, dick or harry that wants a sports team.

The thing that hurts the ABA is too many teams with bad ownership.

Proper due diligence on the background of the market, ownership, financial statements and business plan would go a long way toward weeding out those who have no business in the sports business. But currently, only a check that doesn't bounce is the primary requirement.

Joe loves to use the Wal-Mart, McDonald's franchise plan as an example. These corporations don't just hand out franchise locations. The area is studied and comprehensively investigated to determine if there is a match. That would take up far too much of Joe's time. If he throws 60 teams against the wall and only 25 stick, he'll blame the 35 flat out and find more parts of the country to exploit and expand to next year.

Yes the ABA has the highest number of teams (on paper; the ABA is only ever on paper, writen in pencil); it also has the highest failure rate from year to year, the most canceled games - the league, since its inception, has NEVER completed a full schedule of games, no NBA call-ups for the past two seasons, no accurate record of statistics - which is a HUGE disservice to every player who joins the league, and is now run, essentially, by the various branches of the Newman family tree, the leader of whom has shown time and again with his scathing and infantile email attacks that he is absolutely the wrong person to be a CEO.

Are there owner issues? Sure. But there is a much bigger problem with the league deep in the basement of a home in Indianapolis.

TEN

08-01-2006, 09:39 PM

Ft. Wayne, you might go back and check your numbers for the Fury's attendance that last year....Don't think they averaged 5 to 6K a game....They might have had 5 or 6K once or twice during the season.

Fells

08-02-2006, 07:26 AM

Here are a couple of questions and observations for you all:

First of all, why in the world doesn't Mr. Newman mandate that his teams keep accurate statistics? The ABA is a means of players advancing to the next level; without stats, teams don't have anything to base their decision on.

I know that more teams generally means more revenue, but in this case it doesn't seem to be the case. Does anyone know if Mr. Newman has thought of consolidating the number of teams to say 30, and having more stable ownership in better areas?

Why go into areas like Detroit and LA when they have major league teams? Over the course of history, minor league teams tend to have the most success in smaller areas with less competition.

Observations: (And please, correct me if I am wrong.)

The league needs to concentrate on the smaller areas and reduce the number of teams to be a success. I also believe they need to conduct full background checks on all owners, require a base marketing plan, business plan, etc before being allowed into the league. (If this isn't the case already.)

Something has to be done to ensure that teams don't drop like flies. The turnover in the league is just astronomical. (Although Mr. Newman denies that claim. He states the ABA has a higher retention rate than other leagues.)

In a couple of cases, there has been mismanagement by the teams themselves and not the league. One franchise that booked a large arena and booked high end entertainment is a case in point. I think with more guidance, and more realistic goals, this may not have happened.

Basically, this league is striking me as simply strange. I love the quirky rules, some of the areas the league is in, and of course the red, white, and blue ball. Owners like the ones in Rochester and Vermont know their stuff, and I hope they are a success. I just wonder why the league cannot seem to attract owners like those two.

Fells

preeths

08-02-2006, 12:16 PM

Teams are supposed to keep stats, but even after several years, the league does not have the will or any mechanism to enforce stat keeping. The league often does not have any idea if games were even played several days after they were scheduled.

You are correct, turnover in the ABA is astronomical. Teams fold before their first game, less than a month into the season, and basically every week thereafter. Here is a counter-question for you. What if the league does not want stability? That's crazy, you may be thinking. Why wouldn't they want a stable league? Well, if most league income is derived from selling franchises, for whatever they can fetch, team stability only ties up markets. If teams constantly fold and change hands, you can keep charging new dreamers for the right to set up shop. If that's the case, you won't concentrate on smaller arenas or have any concerns as to a market's viability. You simply place franchises in any location where someone can write you check.

It helps to have a couple of stable franchises you can point to whenever someone launches this criticism, so you pick one of the better teams that doesn't publicly criticize the league (say, Rochester), and throw them a bone (say, the championship tournament). Stability is not the primary concern, though, selling franchises is.

panchess

08-02-2006, 12:27 PM

..the Ask the CEO column when the Gary Steelheads "folded" (they are actually switching leagues) the first thing he mentioned was that the City of Gary deserves a team and so on.

In other words, the fact that an ABA team is 10 miles away doesn't matter to the Commissioner. If the Steelheads were interested in buying a team, he would have sold one to them with no problem.

The McDonald's of the world give their franchisees territorial exclusivity. If Joe could sell 30 franchises in Chicago, he would take the checks.

patmc16

08-02-2006, 12:56 PM

Apparently you know very little about minor league sports.

I understand what you are staying, but after having experience in minor league sports, it is safe to say that you do not know the entire picture of minor league sports.

Ya, Paul. Why don't you learn a little about minor league sports before you go posting on here!!!! LOFL!!!!

On a serious note, you are correct. Uncle Joe is interested in one thing. Selling franchises. That's how he makes his $$ and that's all he cares about. As long as there is another sucker out there (and there always is), this wil go on and on and on.......

Fells

08-02-2006, 01:20 PM

All,

I am issuing an apology to Joe Newman as I used information in my posts which was not intended for this forum. That was unethical, and for that I apologize.

Fells

bectond

08-02-2006, 01:35 PM

. What if the league does not want stability? That's crazy, you may be thinking. Why wouldn't they want a stable league? Well, if most league income is derived from selling franchises, for whatever they can fetch, team stability only ties up markets. If teams constantly fold and change hands, you can keep charging new dreamers for the right to set up shop. If that's the case, you won't concentrate on smaller arenas or have any concerns as to a market's viability. You simply place franchises in any location where someone can write you check.

This is what the league is all about in a nut shell, they can only make money if there is no stability, if all the teams return the next year and 100 markets are tied up each year. Mr.Newman would go broke

Aces2007

08-02-2006, 02:59 PM

This is what the league is all about in a nut shell, they can only make money if there is no stability, if all the teams return the next year and 100 markets are tied up each year. Mr.Newman would go broke

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

See my post on the "is the ABA real" thread.

I was shocked that someone with the credibility of the Frost Heaves owner would associate with the ABA. The Frost Heaves might have a great operation, but what will they do when their opposing teams don't show up? Fans and sponsors only need that to happen once or twice before they see the ABA for what it is.

And what will the Frost Heaves do when they show up for a road game to find that the home team has cancelled the game or paid some guys on a local playground $10 each to be the home team that night? (Don't laugh - it happens). That's one of the reasons I always thought that the league doesn't enforce the stats requirement, because it would expose it for what it is.

Now the ABA has a new vice president, Bill Corona, whose website is so full of B.S. claims that it is laughable - (see the Bill Corona thread) this league is a scam which has ruined many, many markets for basketball and minor league sports.

All you need is a $10K credit card advance and you're in. You too can be a victim.